Major reversal in ocean circulation detected in the Southern Ocean, with key climate implications
Posted by LiminalEra@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 90 comments
SettingGreen@reddit
Why the hell was this removed from World News? Are they THAT daft?
Dapper-Scale-916@reddit
Press release text has been changed, it's not really about SMOC and it's not a "reversal". But nevertheless, what the lead author says sounds as grim as many other similar news.
See: https://bsky.app/profile/micefearboggis.bsky.social/post/3lt6ylxlxuc2i
And: https://theconversation.com/completely-unexpected-antarctic-sea-ice-may-be-in-terminal-decline-due-to-rising-southern-ocean-salinity-259743
hiddendrugs@reddit
“In the long term, this process could double current atmospheric CO₂ concentrations by releasing carbon that has been stored in the deep ocean for centuries—potentially with catastrophic consequences for the global climate.”
How long term are we talking?
idoine@reddit
Here "most optimistic" mean the higher level of outgassing ?
LiminalEra@reddit (OP)
Submission Statement: Scientists have detected that a key southern oceanic current has completely reversed:
“The study’s main finding is both surprising and alarming: since 2016, a sustained increase in surface salinity has been detected in the region between the polar and subpolar gyres of the Antarctic Ocean. This change in water composition suggests that the deep ocean circulation in the Southern Hemisphere—known as the SMOC—is not only being altered, but has reversed. That is, instead of sinking into the depths, surface water is being replaced by deep water masses rising to the surface, bringing with them heat and carbon dioxide (CO₂) that had been trapped for centuries.”
I mean, yeah. While everyone is fretting over the AMOC slowing, the SMOC has completely reversed itself and is now dragging up death from the abyss. The ramifications of this will be wide, far reaching, and now doubt play into the increasing severe weather events occurring in the southern hemisphere.
There’s no surprise here, it’s just another data point to witness and understand how we got to where we are all headed - while we still have the capability to do so.
LiquefactionAction@reddit
Frankly, this sub feels... more sterile and dead than the coral reefs off the coast of Hawaii now. Most topics get like <40 comments, a lot of actual publications mostly get ignored,
It's rather amusing because starting in around 2019-2020, you had all the people cooped up with COVID and massive spike in users but most of them coming out up with schizoid theories about how the world works and going balls-deep into poor Buzzfeed-ass clickbait. It was extremely active but overall dilution of quality. Now it's still sort of diluted but it's slow, dead.
More of a mausoleum that we occasionally find a weeks-old decomposing corpse that we open the doors and toss in into.
I guess it's been a real microcosm of society -- for better or worse (spoiler: it's worse).
TheArcticFox444@reddit
Another "oops" discovery.
Do they know, at this time, what other climate systems this may affect? More CO2 in the atmosphere, obviously, but how long...? (Got to love these sneaky surprises...don't even know what questions to ask.)
Wonder what, if anything, they'll find in the arctic.
Since Uncle Sam has decided to stick his head in the sand on the subject of climate change (or wedge his head into some dark, anatomical orifice) glad to know that other countries are still doing science!
Professional_Nail365@reddit
Is the clathrate gun hypothesis back on the table, or am I misunderstanding the information?
LiminalEra@reddit (OP)
Other end of the planet, a different system breaking down here.
Who_watches@reddit
I wonder if it has anything role in the algae bloom in southern Australia
menasan@reddit
Isn’t an algae bloom a positive thing? …. Plz tell me it is
MmPi@reddit
Not a positive thing. It leads to oxygen depletion that can ultimately become dead zones.
ziptagg@reddit
Not for the ecosystem where it happens. It can kill off the fish and plants in the area.
Borgey_@reddit
nah mate thats the desal plant or the Chinese or both (people over here blaming anything other than climate change)
Emotion-Busy@reddit
Chinese desal plants mate - the worst of the worst
Frozty23@reddit
Well then, let's just stop measuring CO₂ concentrations then. Problem solved for now.
DT5105@reddit
Major reversal in ocean circulation detected in the Southern Ocean, with key climate implications
https://www.icm.csic.es/en/news/major-reversal-ocean-circulation-detected-southern-ocean-key-climate-implications
This is the post OP put up here, in case someone decides to delete it as was done over on the worldnews sub
MeateatersRLosers@reddit
Finally, the ocean stopped stealing our precious CO2 for itself and is paying it back with interest.
We need to pursue further reparations from the rest of the earth to get what we deserve.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Oh, you KNOW we'll get what we deserve... unfortunately, millions of other species will get what they DON'T deserve.
It-s_Not_Important@reddit
I guess they should have thought about that before they helped prop up our society… first, by evolving into homo sapiens.
LiminalEra@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I felt it best to leave that ringer for the folks who would actually click through and read it.
laughing_at_napkins@reddit
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER
Mike-Banachek@reddit
Emissions are going up 2.3 parts per million (PPM) each year so this added carbon dioxide could would add 4.6 or higher each year. According to ice samples the Earth has never breached 280 PPM until the Industrial Revolution. It is now at about 430 PPM. It has never changed so quickly that we know of. If Antartica melted too quickly wouldn’t the amount of freshwater from the melting decrease the salinity and eventually even out?
dcmathproof@reddit
Man... This sounds like the opening plot for the day after tomorrow...
DirewaysParnuStCroix@reddit
The "could double current CO2 concentrations" part would render the severe cooling feedback physically impossible, that would take us back to atmospheric conditions last seen during the Paleocene-Eocene.
Atheios569@reddit
I’m reminded of when I saw the very recent article from cal tech that basically said, we can’t prove the AMOC is going to halt, so it’s not going to halt. Then everyone rejoiced and laughed at the doomers.
I think the answer to Fermi’s paradox is staring us right in the face. All life no matter the iteration will consume itself (metaphorically, but probably literally also) eventually. Makes sense, because as an ecosystem all life is connected, and it just makes sense that what happens (lifecycles) on smaller scales would happen on a global scale.
Zen_Bonsai@reddit
I'm really don't think that's so. It's not hard to imagine a Avatar/Pandora like eco conscious highly civilized population being star born or simply the multitudes of life we've seen here on Earth that work harmoniously within the bounds of ecology.
I agree with this sentiment. It's basically a holographic fractal. I think our mistakes are shared across the universe. But there's always always at least a duality about things. If there's universal failures, there has to be universal winners.
And here is where the Fermi Paradox is answered to me. Like Star Trek's Prime Directive, it makes sense to let a planets life figure themselves out. Its not adventitious to help another limping species along. They need to pass though philosophical/spiritual thresholds to crystalize their evolution in order to embrace the stars
Renard4@reddit
You're saying this like consumerism, productivism and capitalism are the only path for life. This is actually part of the problem.
Plantain6981@reddit
If we kept a climate doomsday clock, that sucker just shuddered (as did I.) After this, uh, holiday week stateside, anyone know where a guy can grab a cheap dimensional shifter lol?
It-s_Not_Important@reddit
Okay, so… my retirement plan was accounting for living comfortably to my 90s. That would be about 50 years from now.
Can someone give me an estimate on how long we have so I can know when to stop working, drain my retirement accounts and live like a baller for the rest of my years?
Omal15@reddit
Live like a baller? I understand the future of humanity is looking more and more grim as the days go on, but is your response to seeing the world on fire to grab a gas can?
It-s_Not_Important@reddit
It doesn’t have to be a gas can. I could just be spending it all on hookers and blow.
wilerman@reddit
I think that’s going to be an incredibly common response going forward. “There’s nothing I can do, better live for myself while I can”, “Protect your mental health”, etc.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
Well, the math says you should have fun, and live a fulfilling life, but don't gamble away your safety net.
If you plan for retirement, and things work out, you won. If you spend it all, and society doesn't fall apart, then whoops you will sleep under a bridge.
Don't deny yourself the fun and good, memorable experiences, but keep some money in your retirement funds just in case.
switchsk8r@reddit
i would love to know as well
Bajadasaurus@reddit
A graphic to visualize this better
invisiblebeliever@reddit
Arent these just surface currents? Genuine question. Trying to my head round this SMOC stuff
smei2388@reddit
Man, it's not getting better, is it...
Logical-Race8871@reddit
There's really not a lot of room for things to be "better than expected" going forward.
smei2388@reddit
LMAO can you imagine if that was the world we lived in? If everything was always coming up "better than expected"? Like, I literally can't even imagine what that world would be like, it'd be so different from this one. Probably, there would be no money. Definitely no combustion engines.
Chickenbeans__@reddit
Gift economy and a culture prioritizing science, education, emotional health, and general wellbeing built on a foundation of regenerative local agricultural practices and understanding the philosophy of giving nature space to thrive.
First_manatee_614@reddit
I would like to request a transfer to that simulation save file please.
smei2388@reddit
Ah, what a beautiful vision. Wish that was how it was 🌟
Chickenbeans__@reddit
Life would be so painfully good
justadiode@reddit
Congratulations, you just reversed entropy and with it, the flow of time. Now it's a world where we remember things better than they actually were
Topiconerre@reddit
Not only is it not getting better, it's getting much worse...
hazmodan20@reddit
And faster!
INeedAnAwesomeName@reddit
Than anticipated too
thedonkeyvote@reddit
Shit is really going to start kicking off sooner than expected. Wide scale disruptions like this can’t really be modelled. I’m fully expecting to not die peacefully despite living in a wealthy country.
Potatopugz@reddit
I’ve been hoarding codeine tablets just in case it becomes unbearable.
lchawks13@reddit
I saved a bunch of Oxycontin after my spinal surgery for same reason
StellerDay@reddit
That's a really good idea. In "On the Beach" by Neville Shute Norway, WW3 has happened, nukes have been used, and the book's characters, who live in Australia, are just waiting for their certain death when a radioactive cloud reaches them. It's expected to take months and the government has supplied the public with free cyanide tablets to take before they get radiation sickness and die that way. I think about this book often. It was written in the 50s and I read it a long time ago, before I was aware of fucking anything I guess, and I thought the way the characters carry on during those months of waiting with business as usual, making plans for a nonexistent future, was not realistic. I suppose I thought they should be running around screaming "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!" and doing nothing else until it happened but I see now that carrying on like things are going to roll along like they always have is EXACTLY what people will do.
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escfantasy@reddit
What purposes will the tablets help with?
Chickenbeans__@reddit
Currency
RichieLT@reddit
Me too, although hopefully not.
rematar@reddit
That salinity will likely increase the melting of Antarctic ice.
https://www.earth.com/news/antarctic-sea-ice-collapse-linked-to-a-sudden-surge-in-ocean-salt/
I wonder if Lex Luther's doppelganger (Bozos) has bought up future beaches as the ocean rises.
I haven't read any educated guesses at what may happen in different areas when the AMOC and/or SMOC fail. I'm in the Canadian prairies. I'm curious if my gardening endeavors will require greenhouses or shade cloths. Or will it be time to bring out the BBOF (Big Bag of Fentanyl)? Someone here awhile ago kindly pointed out that heroin overdoses are not pretty. So much for my post-apocal band Crossbows N' Heroin.
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Vibrant-Shadow@reddit
The consensus seems to be Fent, followed by the more accessible 357
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KevworthBongwater@reddit
fent has destroyed america's inner cities. u wish every american was trained with and carried narcan
Vibrant-Shadow@reddit
No. They give Narcan away for free, to save junkies. Epi-pens are expensive as fuck.
I'd rather let them die.
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SavingsDimensions74@reddit
I already made my plan. I love scuba diving. Can’t stay away from it for more than a few days.
When the time comes, a gentle mixture of vodka, Valium and ecstasy combined with one tank of normal gas, and one a hypoxic mix. Also before I jump from the boat, I’ve already made my playlist (named L’Estranger).
I’ll jump in, pleasantly high but still enough to function. At the appropriate juncture I’ll switch to the hypoxic mix. This is actually quite a pleasant way to go because you simply fall asleep (and then die). I’ll overweight myself so no one needs to go looking for me and leave a note on the boat.
Never, in all my puff, did I imagine I would end up planning my demise in such detail.
But before things get really nasty - and the will get so nasty it’s best not to imagine never mind live through the rape and murder and so much worse.
My plan is actually pretty logical.
And I’ll go doing something I love rather than waiting for the raging mobs.
I’ve made my peace with this. There is no sane reversal for what we’ve done to the planet in nearly no time.
No amount of renewables will fix this. Geo engineering may fix somethings, but will be guided by the laws of unintended side effects.
Enjoy your life, every breath, every person, every smile, every hug or kiss, while you can.
And understand it was always going to be this way. We just happen to be near the last chapter of a short and interesting story, a footnote in the geological record.
We came. We saw. We conquered - and signed our death warrants.
May you all go in peace, in the best way you decide
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rematar@reddit
That sounds lovely.
I live where it can be -40⁰C. In Farley Mowat's People of the Deer, elders would go for a walk on a cold winter night. I like the sound of that, too.
Will anyone else be going with you?
SavingsDimensions74@reddit
Anyone is welcome!!! I’ll even provide the necessities 🤣 however I suspect I’ll be doing this alone.
It’s interesting you mentioned the mountains. I grew up climbing. Hypothermia is actually also a pretty ok to go! You’ll just end up getting sleepy and drift into oblivion.
Again, I in no way endorse these courses of action. I’m just discussing the practicalities
JackBlackBowserSlaps@reddit
They’re not pretty for the ones that find you. Should be fine for yourself.
rematar@reddit
That's good intel. I plan on being around with the last of the tribe.
QueefBeefCletus@reddit
Yeah, an OD is never pretty for the people finding the victim. The person who OD'd probably flew out into the aether in absolute bliss and stayed.
SavingsDimensions74@reddit
This is the movie where John Wick and Bruce Willis also die
UpbeatBarracuda@reddit
Pasting the most pertinent exerpts:
"The study’s main finding is both surprising and alarming: since 2016, a sustained increase in surface salinity has been detected in the region between the polar and subpolar gyres of the Antarctic Ocean. This change in water composition suggests that the deep ocean circulation in the Southern Hemisphere—known as the SMOC—is not only being altered, but has reversed. That is, instead of sinking into the depths, surface water is being replaced by deep water masses rising to the surface, bringing with them heat and carbon dioxide (CO₂) that had been trapped for centuries."
"The upwelling of deep, warm, CO₂-rich waters is believed to be driving the accelerated melting of sea ice in the Southern Ocean. In the long term, this process could double current atmospheric CO₂ concentrations by releasing carbon that has been stored in the deep ocean for centuries—potentially with catastrophic consequences for the global climate."
"The study not only provides a key piece in the climate change puzzle, but also redefines the role of the Southern Ocean in the global climate system. The SMOC plays an essential role in regulating the planet’s heat and carbon. Its disruption could trigger cascading effects on other circulation systems such as the AMOC, with potential consequences for the climate in Europe and other regions."
It's almost like everything is connected or something.
Julian_Thorne@reddit
How long do we got?
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
"this process could double current atmospheric CO₂ concentrations by releasing carbon that has been stored in the deep ocean for centuries"
Centuries? I doubt the southern ocean accumulated ~430ppm worth of CO2 in its depths over just a few centuries.
Is this bad phrasing, or am I misunderstanding what they mean?
Otherwise-Product-60@reddit
Good thing we're not measuring atmospheric CO2 anymore. /s
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Bad phrasing, I think, or a complete misunderstanding by the author of how long it took for that CO2 to accumulate.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
Maybe it's about how the oceans took up ~50% of the co2 we emitted? And so it could theoretically spew it back out?
But that's ignoring the slight detail that it's not all in the southern ocean.
Either way, I'm lost on this one.
Celestial_Mechanica@reddit
I think it's just a turn of phrase. "Centuries" as in a really long time. Moreover, technically it could be 2k or 10k centuries, so technically correct. (/pedant).
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
That's fair. It's technically correct, but it feels like saying your child is 32,334 minutes old
Beneficial_Aside_518@reddit
If this were true, wouldn’t we see this somewhere in paleoclimate data sometime ago?
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
We would. Which is why I question this timeframe.
AquaMoonCoffee@reddit
The deep ocean contains 38,000 gigatons of carbon, the atmosphere currently holds 3,000 gigatons of carbon. The ocean is both the biggest carbon sink on earth and also gains carbon from dissolved organic matter from all ocean life. 90% of all carbon involved in the carbon cycle on earth is contained in the ocean.
Hilda-Ashe@reddit
The bad news are relentless. It makes me wonder, how long can this small Pacific island (where I was born and raised) can continue to sustain life.
extinction6@reddit
I wonder how that effects other ocean circulation patterns? Obviously this will accelerate the darkening of the Earth's albedo when more ice melts, which is already considered one of the significant feed backs in the recent spike in temperatures. Will the Thwaites glacier and others in Antarctica break away soon and rapidly raise sea levels if the ice behind them flows into the ocean?
The plot thickens.......................
CapitalistCoitusClub@reddit
So, it's boiling in slow motion?
YouLiveOnASpaceShip@reddit
Yep. This news just made my stomach turn.
Complete-Phone95@reddit
This means it now sinks in areas where the deep water used to come up? Which would be around the equator.
So like instead of cold water sinking near the poles. Flowing as deep water towards the equator where it rises. and thus creating the circulation. It would now be completely reversed Welling up near the poles and sinking near the equator?
The water still has to sink somewhere to get a reversed circulation.
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/LiminalEra:
Submission Statement: Scientists have detected that a key southern oceanic current has completely reversed:
“The study’s main finding is both surprising and alarming: since 2016, a sustained increase in surface salinity has been detected in the region between the polar and subpolar gyres of the Antarctic Ocean. This change in water composition suggests that the deep ocean circulation in the Southern Hemisphere—known as the SMOC—is not only being altered, but has reversed. That is, instead of sinking into the depths, surface water is being replaced by deep water masses rising to the surface, bringing with them heat and carbon dioxide (CO₂) that had been trapped for centuries.”
I mean, yeah. While everyone is fretting over the AMOC slowing, the SMOC has completely reversed itself and is now dragging up death from the abyss. The ramifications of this will be wide, far reaching, and now doubt play into the increasing severe weather events occurring in the southern hemisphere.
There’s no surprise here, it’s just another data point to witness and understand how we got to where we are all headed - while we still have the capability to do so.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1lrevsk/major_reversal_in_ocean_circulation_detected_in/n1a4rwy/