Worried about engineering background check and 20 year old criminal history
Posted by ExConEngineer@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 58 comments
I'm in Washington State and am accepting an offer for a large tech company based out of California. Now I need to submit information for the background check.
I'm a Staff/Principal-level software engineer, with around 15 years of experience, but this is my first background check.
I have a criminal history from 25 and 20 years ago. A pretty bad one at that. One Class A Robbery I, two Class B Robbery II, one possession of stolen property from 25 years ago and a Class C residential burglary plus a 4th degree assault from 20 years ago. I served 51 months and 15 months, respectively, for these charges. I was last released in 2008, so 17 years ago. Oh, I have another possession of stolen property as a juvenile from 28 years ago.
My current background check (should I name the background check company?) has a selection labeled "Do you have a known criminal background?" It has "yes" and "no" and the forms will allow leaving it blank. It is not limited to a timeframe. Should I mark "yes" or leave it blank?
I've asked a few similar questions before in different subs and people suggested not disclosuring anything and just saying something like "I didn't think it would be a problem after 20+ years"
I've worked extremely hard to build a positive and productive life since. I've led at-risk youth programs for 10+ years grown my career, family, and community involvement. I've worked on multiple AAA game titles and built software for some of the USA's most notable companies. But, I was caught in a round of layoffs last year. Now, with a family and a newborn, I'm scrambling to get on somewhat in a very competitive industry that is still riddled with layoffs.
See previous post here: - https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/s/UH5IOARMEF - https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHR/s/hQaRHohT56
Thank you for any help or advice. I can answer any non-identifying questions.
mikogk@reddit
Look up CA state "Ban the Box" laws. tl;dr it’s illegal for them to inquire about your criminal history before making a conditional job offer.
If you are at the BGC stage, you should already have an offer. BUT you will be entering that information to the CRA (all BGC companies are CRAs) so the recruiter or hiring manager may not even see your answer.
You should check "yes" on the box and you should not ask the recruiter about it. In fact, the BGC platform may even have a rules engine that hides charges that cannot be considered by law from the consumer report for compliance reasons.
Even then, the employer may have automated adjudication that will pass your BGC if the charges are 1. Out of the lookbaxk window, or 2. Not relevant to the job. Some employers also avoid trying to know about charges that wouldn't otherwise be reported to reduce hiring bias.
Source: worked at a CA-based BGC company
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
I'm based in Washington State though, and they have operations in Washington. Doesn't that mean that they could follow Wa state laws as well for my check?
I'm nervous about marking "no" since it would be not truthful. And as stated, if that came out it would be bad.
mikogk@reddit
Yeah, I totally understand that it is stressful if the process is not demystified. But the consumer protections are written in law for a reason. Washington is also similarly progressive as California.
I think it's fine to tell your recruiter to be on the safest side. It certainly won't increase the chance of the offer being rescinded. I can't say the same for negotiation because that's subjective but if you've already agreed to a number then you're safer.
If that's the case, you need to make sure you have a statement prepared which shows evidence of rehabilitation, if the employer asks for it. The fact that you've had such a successful career since then should more than suffice.
In order to take adverse action (rescind your offer , reduce your offer level, reduce your comp etc), the employer will need to conduct an individualized assessment and have a legitimate business reason why you're unfit for the job. They cannot automatically reject you by law based on the charges, it would violate compliance.
Look up "Adverse Action" in general if you want to know what you're protected against (and what you can fight).
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
Washington also has some restrictions as well. In WA employers should not ask about or consider criminal history that is over 10 years old and not related to the job duties.
Material-Bank-7251@reddit
Someone may have posted this before. Sign up for the service as an employer. Then send yourself a request for a background check. Complete it honestly and see what it returns. Or you can use a competitor service. It’ll cost you a little money but at least you’ll know and can proceed accordingly.
mikogk@reddit
You don't have to do this to circumvent the system... Some BGC companies have services to run the consumer report on yourself. You will also get a copy of the report after it's been completed.
That being said, OP is already at the offer stage and probably doesn't have the time to order a report for testing before completing one for the company.
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
Yes, I'm at the offer stage, and have already completed most of the onboarding. We're just waiting for the background check now.
Gullinkambi@reddit
Be honest. If you lie about it and it pops up in the background check, you will fail guaranteed. If you tell the truth, you at least have a shot of them understanding. But lying about it will for sure lose you the job
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
Is leaving it blank considered "lying"? . And should I call the recruiter first?
Ancient-Tomorrow147@reddit
Hiring manager - been doing this for 30 years, have hired hundreds. You are lying by omission leaving it blank. It is almost guaranteed to show up on the background check (unless you have a full pardon or the records were sealed), and you'll have to talk about it, but with potentially no opportunity to tell your side.
From experience, trying to explain it beforehand might lead to me having some empathy, believing you've paid your dues, and hiring you for some roles. If you leave it empty and it shows up (and it will, 99% chance), you'll probably just get ghosted.
Some places flat out can't hire you if you have certain crimes on your record (banks, for example, could not hire somebody with a robbery or fraud charge, no matter when or how much time you served)
TL;DR - it's either no problem or a dealbreaker - the sooner you figure out which, the better, but lying by omission and hoping they miss it (or don't bring it up) is the worst choice here.
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
As a hiring manager, would you prefer someone disclose through the recruiter? That's my plan right now,bro give a generic "i got into trouble 20+ years ago, but have not been since and I have a long list of references from projects that I provide."
jimbo831@reddit
In my experience, the vast majority of companies only run 7 year criminal record checks. I don’t know what this company will do, but I don’t think it’s accurate to say it is almost guaranteed to show up.
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
This is a great way to put it. Thank you. I'll set something up with the recruiter today.
They told me before that it could take a few weeks to get back to me after the round of interviews. Then, they called me back within two hours of my final interview, which I anticipated as a bad sign, but they said they wanted to extend an offer and were happy to move forward quickly.
chaitanyathengdi@reddit
That's awesome dude. Best of luck and I hope you get the job.
Terrible-Lettuce6386@reddit
Most background checks only look back 7-10 years. Depending on the nature of the job/industry (government, financial companies, etc.), they could go back further, but if it’s just a standard background check, a crime from 20 years ago most likely won’t show up. I have a felony from 14 years ago and it didn’t show up in either of the background checks I had done in the past 5ish years.
thephotoman@reddit
Always cop to it. Volunteer the information in good faith.
The coverup is much worse than the convictions.
Gullinkambi@reddit
Put yourself in the HR team’s shoes. If you were receiving a background check from someone and they left that field blank, what would you do? Would you assume they meant to mark yes but forgot? Somehow weren’t paying attention to the form? Or for some personal reason didn’t mark “no”? What’s the simplest answer? Probably the one where the candidate might not want to answer that question, which only raises more questions.
Talk with the recruiter for guidance, they are motivated to get you hired and can facilitate these sorts of scenarios with HR
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
This is good advice and a great perspective. Thank you. I'll set something up with the recruiter today.
the300bros@reddit
Yes because you are omitting a fact you know to be relevant and important to them. If you were applying to a burger flipping job you can roll the dice but this is a career job where you might want to be there making good money for years. It’s higher stakes and you want fewer surprises. Assuming you or your SO/spouse want stability.
Gullinkambi@reddit
Marking “no” would be. Probably with taking it though with the recruiter though for hire much detail you want to provide
iMac_Hunt@reddit
I’m not advocating lying here necessarily, but the opposite could be true too: you don’t disclose it and it doesn’t come up, but you do disclose it and it causes a problem.
Gullinkambi@reddit
The history could be a problem, yes. But lying about it will be a problem (if it pops up)
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
Great way to put it
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
Yeah. I'm definitely not going to mark no on the form. But I'm stuck about marking yes and causing a problem and marking no and it never coming up.
Ancient-Tomorrow147@reddit
There is basically 0 chance that a felonies and prison time will not "come up" during a background check.
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
Good point
iMac_Hunt@reddit
I appreciate you’re looking for advice but I’m afraid your only options are either lie or just be honest with them. You know the two options here so you just have to make a decision.
Personally, I would probably rather be honest than have the anxiety of trying to cover it up. If can speak to the recruiter first rather than someone in management it could help gauge how management would take it.
PrinceNV@reddit
pls upvote, need some comment karma to create a post
finicu@reddit
If it's that background check run by indians, absolutely lie on it, and do not file anything risky such as this without speaking with your employer prior.
notParticularlyAnony@reddit
wut
PersianMG@reddit
I'd say be honest and upfront knowing full well that they may still reject your application based on the past.
It is unfortunate for those like you who turn their life around but some people will judge anyway.
Best of luck to you.
darkhorn@reddit
How long they keep the records? In Turkey they keep it for 5 years if it is not a very very serious crime. You take it from the e-government site, as PDF or print it and send it to the company. If you commited robbery or something that was more than 5 years it won't show on the paper.
But if you apply as civil servant then they see everthing about you.
I don't know about the USA but if they are going to do a background check anyway then why they ask a yes or no question. Clearly they have no access to some of the information. What is that? Records more than 7 years old may be? I don't know.
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
They keep records forever. But each state has different laws about how long background checks can dig into someone's past. My state is open ended.
ThatFeelingIsBliss88@reddit
You played this all wrong. You shouldn’t bothered applying to the company you really wanted to work at. What you should have done is applied to a bunch of startups, but ones that are big enough to likely require a background check. Then just experiment with that process and see what happens if you leave it blank.
As it stands, you really have no other choice than to disclose. Those are honestly pretty egregious crimes. If I were these companies I’d still hire you but I’d down level you, since you’d had no choice but to take it anyway.
Also keep in mind the concept of indemnity. Companies have to make certain decisions to mitigate their legal liability in the event of a lawsuit. Imagine someone gets beaten to a bloody pulp because over some disagreements with their coworker. Now it turns out that these crazy coworker was really good at his job, but 20 years ago he went to prison for assault, robbery, theft, etc. Now the victim isn’t simply going to sue you, they’re going to sue the company. And they would have every right to.
“How can you hire someone with such an obscene criminal record?! And even if you did want to give him a second chance, you should have at least inform people like me who’d be working with him, that way I would know to get a distance from someone with such a history.”
Now you can say that’s a bogus argument, but the point is that it’s at least a good enough argument where the company might have to settle outside of court for quite a large amount of money to make it all go away.
I say all that to say that even if someone wanted to give you a chance on a personal level, it may not be up to them, even if they are the director of HR. They’d have to get this sort of thing cleared with the entire legal department. And why would they bother going through all that trouble if they’re not hiring a super high level of executive or some AI guru?
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
I totally understand what you are saying. And I agree that I should have tried more smaller startups rather than a large tech company. I will start that now as well, just so I'm ahead of this doesn't work out. Fortunately, I have a lot of expertise in the area they need, and it's for a staff level position. Hopefully that helps me, but I understand everything can be up to legal if they say no, then that's it..
In the end, it is what it is. I did not have this job a week ago, so if it doesn't work out, I'm just still in the same place. Well, kinda, technically, I'm going on vacation for a few weeks, 😂. But I'll still just be looking for a new role. I'm fortunate to have side work that pays fairly well.
wesw02@reddit
I once interviewed someone in a similar situation and they made a big impression on me. At the very end of the interview they said something like, "Look I want to be upfront. I have a criminal background. I did something stupid and I really regret it. I know a lot of people won't hire me because of it, so if you can look past that and hire me I promise to work extra hard every single day and not take that opportunity for granted". We hired the him.
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
Yeah, unfortunately the hiring manager interview was my first interview (tech screening) and I had a few more technical interviews afterwards. I needed the technical interviews to really show them I'm the best fit here. And after telling me they would take a couple weeks to figure things out, they called me back within two hours with an offer. Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to tell him, well I could have, I just figured it wasn't the right time yet, so I hope I can meet with him now.
IrrationalSwan@reddit
Double check the law, but I think in CA they can only go 7 years back, and you're only required to disclose convictions from the last 7 years
Terrible_Sense_3043@reddit
So no. The background check will only go back 7 years.
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
What do you mark on background check forms though?
Terrible_Sense_3043@reddit
Honestly all of the recent BG checks that have been done didn't require any input from me at all. But if they did, I would check no. I believe I have had either 4 or 5 done since the 7 years was up. 2 of those were in the last 3 years.
apartment-seeker@reddit
damson, those are legit crimes. Have you shared your story anywhere, seems like it would be interesting and positive to hear where you came from and how you managed to turn things around
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
Yeah, it was quite a wild ride for my first 20-something years. From bar fights, armed robberies, working construction and wild fires to family man, dad, at-risk youth mentor and advocate, and software engineer. 😂 Even my poor mother who only knows about half of everything wants me to write a book.
driftingphotog@reddit
When is this occuring in the process? Do you already have an offer? In CA they cannot ask you about criminal history until after an offer is extended. For checks after the offer, CA actually has a fair bit of legal protections.
They are required to take into account multiple criteria before being allowed to rescind an offer.
WA has similar protections.
jaypeejay@reddit
Can you get record expunged? I was arrested for burglary (charge dismissed), and please no contest to trespassing. I had my record expunged and have never answered yes on a background check, and it’s never come up.
For anyone curious - I was 18 and sat it the car as the get away driver while my buddy attempted to steal a bottle of vodka from a super market.
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
No, unfortunately I cannot get it expunged. I need to request a governor's pardon.
boboshoes@reddit
I would reach out and see if you can get that. Don’t give up
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
Thanks. The Class A felony prevents expungement. The only option is the governor pardon. I am starting that process now, but it won't help this situation.
Gullinkambi@reddit
Also I just wanted to say this sounds very stressful and I’m sorry you are having to deal with this added pressure on top of the challenge of finding a job in the current market. Best of luck and I hope it works out for you
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
Thank you. It's super stressful, especially with all the layoffs happening. I'm fortunate to have a few backup options with companies I've worked at before, but they just don't pay senior-level salaries.
cutsandplayswithwood@reddit
I have an armed robbery from 1995, and it still shows up on a bg check. I also just got another job, in tech.
Same process as always - get in touch with the hiring manager directly and tell them what’s coming out of the check.
xXxdethl0rdxXx@reddit
This is OF COURSE a much smaller deal, but I'm currently going through a similar corporate background check.
I left off my most recent employer on my resume, as it's only been a short stint and didn't seem relevant to the role I was applying for. But once I got an offer and moved to the background check, I had a little anxiety.
Take this however you want. I decided to be fully honest and transparent. I uploaded paystubs, W-2s, everything from this employer.
In the end, they didn't bother to check. They also said that their scope was limited to 7 years. The only thing they checked beyond those 7 years was a verification for my college attendance (just that I went, not my degree completion). But again, someone else mentioned 7 years so I'd have to assume that this is a common statute of limitations.
You know more than I do, but being as transparent as possible helped me a lot here, both psychologically and tactically. And if I had to guess, the recruiter and background firm just want to close the deal. So, if there is something ambiguous about a criminal record, answer honestly would be my advice. One other thing to note is that they checked my criminal record anyway.
Ok_Slide4905@reddit
It will come up. Be the first person to tell your story.
Be honest with the facts. Don't minimize but don't give more than necessary.
"This was a part of my life I deeply regret. I've worked hard and accomplished a lot since then and now have a family who depends on my ability to make the right decisions. I would never compromise their futures or mine ever again."
bigorangemachine@reddit
I'd check with an employment lawyer TBH.
Where I live you can get your records sealed. I think if you had no other arrests or convictions in 20 years a judge would be more than happy to seal your records.
That may qualify you to check "No" and you can put your past behind you.
the300bros@reddit
Be honest because of they catch you lying they can’t trust you. And even if they did a partial background check and didn’t find something at any point if a deeper search is run or someone snitches on you you’re getting fired.
badbog42@reddit
Being honest will help demonstrate that you’ve reformed.
Rain-And-Coffee@reddit
Had did you handle this at previous jobs or previous applications? Maybe do the same?
ExConEngineer@reddit (OP)
The previous companies did not run background checks.