‘It’s too late’: David Suzuki says the fight against climate change is lost
Posted by Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 383 comments
Posted by Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 383 comments
otherNamed216@reddit
Friendly reminder: Suzuki owns at least 5 homes, including one in Australi. So as he says this, he flies to Australia to his 5th home the next day. His net worth is estimated to be around $25 million. He's a world-class hypocrite and a champagne socialist.
Rockstar365084@reddit
But is he wrong?
Skalgrin@reddit
I don't like the doomerism approach, it's actually empowering people to believe they can do what they want, as it's already lost anyway.
It's bad. It's not going to get better anytime soon if ever. But there is always hope and there is always a way. We are long past a simply difficult and costy way - it's going to be much worse, but there is always some way.
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
Are you calling David Suzuki a doomer? 20 years ago people called him alarmist and did nothing, now here we are. He is not a doomer he is just accepting the reality that the political and economic systems that control the world cannot be changed in time to prevent climate change. What matters now is building community and taking care of your neighbours because the government will not be able to help most people as things continue to get worse. Increased weather catastrophe frequency and intensity are already here. It is not a matter of prevention anymore only preparedness and goodwill to those around you who you can help.
Skalgrin@reddit
shrugs
I don't say he is wrong, just the formulation of the post made it look like he gave up. Which I believe he did not, but the wording made it look like.
Freo_5434@reddit
What scientific evidence or data did he use to come to that conclusion ?
Or maybe we are all just expected to accept his opinion ?
madcoins@reddit
Oof Suzuki is more than a canary in a coal mine
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
Yeep, full blown acceptance. Nothing left to do anymore but build community. He said this statement has been in the making so he’s probably struggled through the grief process for some time now. This man has 5 kids and 10 grand children, so there’s no way this didn’t hurt to accept.
NoMoreColoniesDCPRVI@reddit
15 descendants. That's a lot of suffering
MadeUAcctButIEatedIt@reddit
And their descendants. That's a lot of first world consumers
uptheantinatalism@reddit
Well, let’s hope they’re smart enough to not breed.
NoMoreColoniesDCPRVI@reddit
Hear hear
shroomigator@reddit
Al Gore was the tipping point.
When the powers that be said we couldn't have the president we elected, because his plan to fix the world was too costly.
Stupid fucks.
I hope that champagne tastes nice when you're drinking it in your bunker underground with your mistreated domestic help.
uraniumbabe@reddit
i read this as gore produced by artificial intelligence lol
shroomigator@reddit
People in the future are going to wonder who that Al guy was and why he was so evil
Waflstmpr@reddit
At some point the mistreated domestic help just violently slaughter the champagne drinkers. Then its just waiting until the resources dry up.
KeyHound10@reddit
There’s absolutely savagely diary entries from Abigail Washington, George Washington’s wife, who expressed absolute paranoia about the enslaved Black people left to her after George’s death. George willed that their human property be freed after both their deaths… Abigail wrote about how she was sure she could hear the enslaved people whispering about her and how to poison her pudding as they prepared it for her… she ended up freeing them early since she couldn’t handle it. I think of that fondly often,
MissShirley@reddit
That's crazy. How hard would it be to just hire them and pay them?
Zzzzzzzzzxyzz@reddit
Hah, I don't think they could afford that and their lifestyle.
Slavery is a an especially cruel and evil form of theft (and torture, and murder).
Slave owners steal everything from their slaves to benefit themselves. It's wrong on so many damn levels. Slaves worked hard building America and their descendents still struggle from the generational impacts of slavery.
jestenough@reddit
Abigail Adam’s or Martha Washington?
Waflstmpr@reddit
I cant figure why theyd go through all the effort of poisoning her, when they could of just bludgeoned her to death?
LifeClassic2286@reddit
Because they’d be arrested for murder. Abigail Washington was a national treasure, the wife of the biggest hero in the country.
Riccma02@reddit
Apparently not so much a national treasure, since you guys don’t realize her name was Martha, not Abigail.
Waflstmpr@reddit
That depends on when the authorities found out, and how far the former slaves had travelled by then. All in all, I guess when you get down to it, poisoning is alot more subtle.
Tina_DM_me_the_AXE@reddit
Did you mean Martha Washington instead of Abigail?
JSeizer@reddit
Why wait.
Mental-Mind5321@reddit
I don't think enough millennials realize this. It's taken me a while but as a 30 something yr old I agree. We never had a chance to choose.
DalmationStallion@reddit
Well have a look at how the establishment - both dem and republican - have circled the wagons against Madani as soon as it seems someone might be slightly disruptive to the corporate capitalist business as usual model.
Short of a revolution, this was never going to happen.
vlntly_peaceful@reddit
That’s what the rest of the world is telling you for the last year. I still don’t get it, these billionaires have publicly known adresses, the media is after them 25/8 and still there is no one in their face … protesting.
8E9resver@reddit
That wedding took place in Venice, and somehow no one protested there, even when just over a century earlier, that kind of protesting was all the rage in Italy.
Zzzzzzzzzxyzz@reddit
Do you know how hard some jobs are to hold down and protest?
Those who can, must protest. But the working poor and middle class struggle to survive already. We work long hours. Days off we have chores. We need rest. We need to slow down. We need sleep.
AineLasagna@reddit
About 1000 people protested in Venice. It didn’t change anything
8E9resver@reddit
Yes, and...
My comment subtly and jokingly alluded to the fact that in quick succession, between 1894 and 1900, Italian anarchists assassinated the President of France, the Prime Minister of Spain, the Empress and consort to the Emperor of Austria-Hungary, and the King of Italy. Galleanists, followers of another Italian anarchist, also caused death and destruction in New York and Massachusetts in the decades that followed.
Lurtzae@reddit
Most of us are just brainwashed by supposedly liberal capitalism. There's no way we can imagine another way of life, an alternative anymore. We have to continue until the bitter end.
Maybe there's enough of humanity left to start over then, but I somehow doubt it and conditions will be so bad you can't image anything positive coming out of it really.
Geostomp@reddit
The stolen election of Bush Jr. by his own brother and a corrupt SCOTUS locked in the fact that this century would be one of decline and willful self-destruction to benefit the elites
Xae1yn@reddit
Nah American voters chose this (as much as they can choose anything, which is not much at all) when they voted in Reagan over Carter. The ship had already sailed by 2000.
oh_alvin@reddit
Yes, you're right, the people chose this. Accepting that has been the only way I've been able to reconcile the Trump election.
BUT, the people have been brainwashed. Whether it's been through our poor education system (purposely underfunded for this very reason) or patriotic propaganda, or the many other tools they've used. Deprogramming is difficult.
I used to be one of those people and I'm always thankful that I figured out how to be a critical thinker and think for myself.
fireraptor1101@reddit
No Ronald Reagan was the tipping point. Carter put solar panels on the White house and tried to get us to live within our energy means. Reagan took off the solar panels and it's been drill baby drill ever since.
OneStepForAnimals@reddit
https://www.mattball.org/2025/07/carbon-based-cruelty.html
RagingNerdaholic@reddit
Not pulling any punches lmao
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
He has always been a proud socialist, I think that is why many respect him. It is funny though, never having seen any talk like this, always watered down and family friendly. Now it is time for reality.
snertwith2ls@reddit
I feel like this is really what's behind Trump's trainwreck of a bill. The wealthy are hunkering down with everything they can get their hands on and screw the rest of us. They see what's coming, they've caused it and just as always they're throwing everyone else under the bus.
Micycle08@reddit
Their bunkers won’t save them. There is no where on this tiny rock they won’t be found when the time comes. Their only escape is off planet (hopefully in to the sun!)
snertwith2ls@reddit
What gets me is how they say they're so afraid of the "poors" rising up and eating them yet they do everything in their power to make sure there's a reason to do that. If they decide to go off planet it can't be soon enough and I'll help hold the door open.
AlwaysShittyKnsasCty@reddit
It’s the Streisand Effect. Before I kept seeing article after article about billionaires hiring prepping consultants to ask things like “how they should keep their bunker security guards in line” and “whether shock collars would affect loyalty,” I couldn’t give a flying fudge what Peter Thiel, Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, or any of the no-name billionaires (how embarrassing would that be?) did in their spare time. They thought we thought about them, reacted to this belief — because they are literally reactionaries (shout out to Yarvin the Martian) — and now here we are thinking about them thinking that we actually thought about them, which leads me to think: Streisand Effect!
Thick-Ad5738@reddit
The only billionaires that will enjoy their bunkers are crimelords and cartel bosses who already know how to keep their armed guards in line by "loyalty". it is a stupid consolation for the rest of us, but still....
AlwaysShittyKnsasCty@reddit
That’s a good point. El Chapo is used to this shit. Zuckerberg? He bought a chain and a white tee. Haha.
vlntly_peaceful@reddit
This will work until food runs low, a shock collar and the fear or death won’t stop a starving human. But they wouldn’t understand because they have as much in common with humans as a cockroach.
BeyondElectricDreams@reddit
I heard the same, but it was worse than that.
It was a conversation that went like
They quite literally do not see us as human beings with agency, a soul, however you want to say it. They legitimately think of themselves as a different, better species.
AlwaysShittyKnsasCty@reddit
Exactly. Instead of doing the EASIER and SANER and BETTER thing, they’d rather them be swine. It’s disgusting. I really don’t know why we allow it. If I had my way, these people would be in hospitals. Maybe RFK can set up billionaire recovery camps.
snertwith2ls@reddit
I never heard of most of these people until Trump. I think we should have heard of them and how influential they were a little sooner. Not sure if that would have really changed anything because "forewarned is forearmed" only if you're smart enough to figure out you're being warned and what you're being warned about.
AlwaysShittyKnsasCty@reddit
Trump is the harbinger of doom. You’re right. Lol
anthrolooker@reddit
I mean, the only intelligent billionaire is one who can’t be named, really. Being a billionaire is a sinful mental illness, but even still one could have some intelligence if they had the wherewithal to know to go unknown. The only billionaire worth a damn, one with both intelligence and a known name is one that gives up 90%+ of that wealth for the unselfish good of the world… not that we’d ever see that, though I do believe we’ve had a few with enough intelligence to give up some wealth as to not have such a large target on their back.
None of us really giving a damn about them must have really bothered them. Allas, to want for ‘more money than god could spend’ is someone compensating for a whole lot that which money absolutely cannot buy. They lack the capacity for things which people actually respect so they become fucking hoarders, lol.
I can’t help but find it funny they think they can starve out whole populations of people and not expect their fat asses to look most delectable. Starve large amounts of people of enough hope and food, and nothing will stop enough from getting that fresh fatty meat. History repeats itself and these rich fucks never learn a damn thing. I honestly can’t help but laugh at their wild stupidity when they think that money and a known name makes them somehow inherently “smart” or “better”. Absolutely nothing could be further from reality.
Legitimately doing anything that unites whole populations of people in taking joy at the thought of your death takes a truly special level of idiocy. They are far too stupid and deluded to even see it. Shit, they are far past the point at which their wealth has become a direct measure of their lack of intelligence and sanity. If Elon isn’t the perfect example of this fact. I’m only surprised his PR team got him as far as they did for as long as they did in convincing people he was anything other than a massive, moronic sack of shit (and no, he’s not autistic - his PR team would have had that diagnosis written out and submitted to the Library of Congress by now). That cringy Nazi fuck has had a glowing neon sign over his head reading “malicious and dangerously stupid” in Papyrus font since he learned to speak. That PR team pulled off what can only be described as an act of god in hiding Elon massive, ugly truth.
The inherent stupidity of billionaires will never not be pathetically funny.
AlwaysShittyKnsasCty@reddit
I’m going to reply to this when I have more time, but yes, yes, yes. Why aren’t we institutionalizing these people? As a society, we’ve unanimously decided that murder is awfully shitty. We then made it illegal. Why do we venerate psychopaths with money they don’t share again?
Grand-Page-1180@reddit
They had everything to give people so they would have enough not to revolt, but they couldn't bear to part with any of it. Its their own fault they fear us rising up.
snertwith2ls@reddit
I hope it keeps them up at night
ElegantDaemon@reddit
Something something self-fulfilling prophecy.
notislant@reddit
You say this but people still arent revolting and there was a satirical movie where a billionaire was being interviewed about climate change:
'I knew I had to do something!'
'So I hollowed out a mountain.'
"Wouldnt people say thats selfish?"
'Dunno, soundproof.'
I can honestly see some of them hollowing out mountains or other bunkers with tons of supplies, maintenancr employees and massive vault doors. They basically have infinite funds.
Meanwhile the U.S. has a dictator who has pissed countless people off, half the pop own essentially nothing and are close to homelessness. Yet nobody does a fucking thing.
digdog303@reddit
lol what's the movie called?
notislant@reddit
Think its Death to 2020
digdog303@reddit
excellent, thanks
butt_huffer42069@reddit
One third* voted for him. One third voted for improving lives and (small but viable) economic reform, amd One third didn't vote because they think it doesn't effect them.
tonywinterfell@reddit
That’s a pipe dream. There’s no way in hell to make that a viable solution. Being in space indefinitely will wreck you, likely kill you after years. Mars is also non-viable, it would take trillions of dollars to make something on mars that has even half a chance.
Look at the Bio Sphere. It was an attempt to achieve homeostasis in a closed system, with massive funds and some of our best scientific minds on it. The scientists devolved into factionalism within weeks and wouldn’t even speak to each other. The trees fell over, and it took them a while to figure out it’s because there was no wind pushing on them and creating stress fibers to support their weight, so they got big and fell over.
I think they know it, which is why we haven’t heard a damn thing in a long time about colonizing mars.
They are trapped here, with all of us, and we know what they did..
DreamHollow4219@reddit
The good news is that no technology we currently have is likely enough to save them.
Bad news is, that includes all humanity.
Pure extinction.
Puzzleheaded-Bit7068@reddit
And nature
jbiserkov@reddit
The sad thing is we have the technology to save us all. It's a social technology called "cooperation for the common good". It's an economic system called social-ism, itself a transitional period to common-ism.
But "they" will never even think to deploy that technology at planetary scale. Their egos don't allow it.
8E9resver@reddit
Okay, economically, plausible. But with mass extinction and near-exponential temperature rise already underway, the spectre of famine and complete ecological collapse don't have easy technological and social engineering answers.
GogOfEep@reddit
They will transfer their consciousness to androids and live for all eternity. They are the true winners of this world. For that reason, I can sort of comprehend the cults of personality around them. Perhaps some peons realize, deep down, that these will be the only “people” who survive the coming decades.
SeveralDrunkRaccoons@reddit
If they believe this, they are truly insane.
ChampionshipSalt1358@reddit
That is never happening this century bud.
YYFlurch@reddit
lolol
sloppymoves@reddit
I don't think they intend to survive. They just want their own bunker kingdoms with sex slaves, entertainment, and food. They, most likely, don't care what happens after they die. As long as they can make it to the end of their "natural" lifespan.
8E9resver@reddit
It's most of what I care about (making it to the end of my natural lifespan while enjoying what life has to offer, no sex slaves needed, or sex, for that matter), and I've nearly come to terms with the fact that I might only get from a quarter to a half of that.
Badgernomics@reddit
Their bunkers become tombs with the application of a little conk-crete baaaabbbbyyy!
jbiserkov@reddit
The sun is the closest thing we have to a god - it's power is incomprehensible, it gives life, etc.
Crashing a spaceship into the sun (more like melting somewhere above the surface) seems like a bad-ass way to exit this life.
Beneficial_Table_352@reddit
Can they just leave now? The sooner the better
ThrowDeepALWAYS@reddit
Will they then become the hunted?
raven991_@reddit
You still promise this and nothing happens. Since 1917
TheArcticFox444@reddit
Trump's "trainwreck" bill has made China delightfully happy and will move China into a future of prosperity.
Blame is only helpful if it's well placed.
Just curious, but do you consider yourself a critical (or analytical, scientific) thinker? Do you believe in "cause and effect?"
chasingastarl1ght@reddit
He's always been known in my circle as someone who had a very... Colourful... Way of speaking - I guess things are serious enough that it's not being redacted before publication now
rematar@reddit
Agreed. It's a good interview.
8E9resver@reddit
The heck did redacted say!?!?
TheArcticFox444@reddit
Think France...July 14, 1789...Bastille Day
UnCommonSense99@reddit
And look how that turned out.... The reign of terror, Millions of people dead in war (roughly one tenth of all French men were killed), 100 years of political turmoil. How about the Russian revolution? That one turned out fabulously well for everyone. Lets do that /s
TheArcticFox444@reddit
Give us time...give us time. We'll get around to it...or maybe something even dumber.
stasi_a@reddit
National holiday?
TheArcticFox444@reddit
"Let 'em eat cake!"
rematar@reddit
Bozo wedding
Perry in "space"
The Menu
White Lotus
I see a new genre. The people are ready, like Nirvana, but more gritty.
nin3ball@reddit
Probably rhymes with schmevolution or jebellion
Nichole-Michelle@reddit
Maybe even Thor?
Freud-Network@reddit
I feel like Mike Tyson just met Sean Connery.
Indigo_Sunset@reddit
Well, it does involve crossing a nine realms...
SeveralDrunkRaccoons@reddit
Kerfuffle.
RagingNerdaholic@reddit
Fuck's sake, reddit, we can't even describe a circular device completing a rotation?
OneTripleZero@reddit
WTF, can we not say revolution?
Freud-Network@reddit
You said it fine. OP removed out of fear, not actual conduct.
doctorchimp@reddit
Being afraid to say revolution on a social media app owned by a company
While posting this on a collapse subreddit
OP is missing the point. The earth will boil, he will have no water but hey he was polite on Reddit.
OneTripleZero@reddit
Ah, more of the ridiculous self-censorship that seems to be on the rise.
Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit
Ok now you've used the R word, ICE will be knocking on your door.
OneTripleZero@reddit
Seeing as I'm Canadian I'll Uno Reverse Card their shit and have them deported instead.
icklefluffybunny42@reddit
The '2 pi radians' will not be televised.
fro99er@reddit
Please explain I'm stupid
8E9resver@reddit
R e v o l u t i o n
namtab00@reddit
a completed circular path around something is called a ....?
rematar@reddit
Sometimes counted per minute..
jbiserkov@reddit
Oh, I see. That explains why that paragraph is incomplete. Let me try to reconstruct it as best I can.
nin3ball@reddit
Probably rhymes with schmevolution or jebellion
msszero159@reddit
Is there an audio version of this? I want to hear these words out loud, read by a real person.
NotClayDabbler@reddit
It's not the billions that bother me but the idea the SCOTUS rules money is speech. That is truly immoral.
snertwith2ls@reddit
I don't think this can be emphasized enough. It's mind boggling what mental gymnastics must have gone on to reach that conclusion and then actually make it law.
Bubbly_Ganache_7059@reddit
Mammon cult worship baby, it’s all the rage these days
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
Submission Statement: This is related to collapse because a life long climate activist who we all know has come out and said we have known for a long time now. The drudgery of government, economics, and politics have failed to produce any meaningful change towards addressing climate change.
David Suzuki's use of the word failure is in response to how "the focus on politics, economics, and law are all destined to fail because they are based around humans." We have forgotten what really matters "nature, clean air, pure water, rich soil, food, and sunlight." and have instead chosen the path of infinite growth on a finite planet to save us.
Part of David Suzuki's "doomerism" as people will probably soon start labelling him is that we have crossed 7 out of 9 planetary boundaries as outlined by Rockström saying "we have five years to get out of the danger zone."
"If we pass one boundary, we should be shitting our pants. We’ve passed seven!"
It is incredible to see such an influential man actually admitting the reality of our situation for once. It is as if we are no longer taking crazy pills. How anyone can see Johan Rockström's work and think, 'well we have until 2050 to reach net zero so its okay' or the worse 'we will hit 3C in 2100 so we have lots of time' is insane.
Trump was the dagger in David Suzuki's heart as I feel it probably was for many of us here. What he says here is true, there is nothing we can do to stop the destruction that Trump will cause, what is left is to build resilience and connection within communities. As the government will be unable to address even a fraction of the destruction that is coming if they don't out right collapse as the "peasants abandon their farms."
Expect excessive backlash towards David after this announcement as the green growth economic obsessed businessmen label him a doomer for hurting their investments and "destroying our only chance at stopping climate change." Richards previous report went into how most people think climate change is bad but that science, progress, the market will save us. I think they will be the ones most hurt by David's reality check.
Kangas_Khan@reddit
So there really is no future huh? Great. Glad i spent most of my life in college and school for nothing, now i get to grow up in mad max
Fun_Skirt8220@reddit
I got through and had a kid who i don't know how to give a future.
Speckhen@reddit
I’m in the same boat - so I’m actively working on building a mutual-aid type of community that Suzuki describes in the interview:
“For me, what we’ve got to do now is hunker down. The units of survival are going to be local communities, so I’m urging local communities to get together. Finland is offering a great example because the Finnish government has sent a letter to all of their citizens warning of future emergencies, whether they’re earthquakes, floods, droughts, or storms. They’re going to come and they’re going to be more urgent and prolonged.
“Governments will not be able to respond on the scale or speed that is needed for these emergencies, so Finland is telling their citizens that they’re going to be at the front line of whatever hits and better be sure you’re ready to meet it. Find out who on your block can’t walk because you’re going to have to deal with that. Who has wheelchairs? Who has fire extinguishers? Where is the available water? Do you have batteries or generators? Start assessing the roots of escape. You’re going to have to inventory your community, and that’s really what we have to start doing now.”
KeyHound10@reddit
Mad Max has wayyyyy better fashion anyways than fancy boardroom stuffy outfits…
Tidezen@reddit
Yup. Though I admit I was a bit surprised at the sheer speed of it, this term. But when I heard the news about the Mauna Loa Observatory recently, it really hit me. You don't shut that station down (or the NOAA) unless you're really committed to hiding something. When people are shut down, disallowed from even observing the weather--that's it. You're making a play to kill the entire world. On purpose.
GlitteringDisaster78@reddit
Not religious but this is the Antichrist
Tidezen@reddit
I tend to agree.
Collapse2043@reddit
What you have now will become a rare, envied luxury that no one can take from you.
Kaining@reddit
We have a word for that: Cancer
Capitalism is literal cancer. Having the favorite insult of those scums be "communist" the moment anybody sugget simply not doing that is insane.
As for the solution to Trump, who may really just have rigged his way back in 2024 and his building literal concentration camp, or to be exact, extermination camp when his boots on the ground say on twitter "we'll have 65 millions people to feed alligators", it's quite simple.
But it will get you banned from oligarch owned social media to remind everybody of it. Yet it's nothing more than what the freaking US did during ww2 to the nazis. And in its current form, what happened to the confederate before.
The world is watching, waiting for this to happen. It not gonna though, and yeah, it's freaking grim to watch out from the other side of the planet for a lifetime knowing that "welp, nothing i can do that matter, the empire need to be defeated from the inside and i live outside".
Americans have really dropped the ball since a long time ago. And we're basicaly powerless to oppose their country.
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
I think every socialist knows this, unfortunately in Canada we lost the only good party just to prevent Trumps hostile takeover through Pierre. Now we just have another economic, business obsessed liberal who will build more pipelines and stir up the economy, because too many believe green capitalism will save us. It’s like their god, all praise the economy, it’s our only salvation. Maybe if we were on best case scenario climate path, but we aren’t and I don’t think we ever have been.
stilusmobilus@reddit
Same in Australia, we voted out of fear of a Trump style Coalition government and gave Labor a landslide. Labor, while being better than the Coalition, are the same dogshit centrist status quo friendly government. We were possibly on track for a minority Labor government had Harris won.
Fragrant-Flamingo216@reddit
And then this newly confident Labor government approved the NW Shelf. Proving they have zero conception of climate science and are happy to give a giant eff you to the world.
SimpleAsEndOf@reddit
Count yourselves lucky because in the UK, the right wing media have worked tirelessly to avoid associating Trumpism and Republicans with Farage (pro Fascist Reform party).
They refuse to even associate Farage with Putin, his good friend, because they are desperate for him/Fascists to take power.
We should have had the same left shift as Canada and Oz.
Fuzzy_Garry@reddit
In the Netherlands, every time a right-wing government fails, voters respond by shifting even further to the right.
8E9resver@reddit
Depressing as hell.
Kaining@reddit
Imagine if the two needed things for a democracy to work, education and unbiased, informative media, had been something we had ?
We wouldn't be here.
audioen@reddit
My take on these questions is always the same. Avoiding climate catastrophe would have required global cooperation, where everyone agrees to leave all accessible fossil energy into the ground, regardless of how much benefit they could gain from using that resource, and this goes not just for this moment but all time. As the gas is only slowly removed from atmosphere by natural processes, the allowed emission rate is trivial -- maybe something like one hundredth to one thousandth of the rate today.
(Forget about claims made by the net zero people, because I believe this approach can't work, their calculated emission rate must be way too high. The truth is, if the total amount of carbon circulating in biosphere is increasing, that alone will cause a disaster at some timescale. The biosphere's ability to absorb carbon also reduces if temperatures go up, as forests go up in smoke and wetlands dry out, and the CO2 going into oceans is a massive secondary problem that is poised to kill the fish in the oceans. So, net zero as described is never going to work, but is rather something like a scientific fraud. I think even at best, it is an instance of human wistful thinking, manifestation of the hope that there is some way to continue doing what we are doing, albeit at some reduced capacity, when the truth is that industrial civilization must end.)
I also believe that disaster comes from biology and human reproduction allowed by massive growth of machine labor because it made so much food so plentiful, and allowed its global transport creating food rich conditions everywhere that ships could reach, as surplus that could now be ferried elsewhere. However, all this is also based on one-time resource base of minerals and fossil energy, and thus it has a time horizon beyond which it is no longer feasible. We have always tried to reproduce explosively, and I believe it wasn't because some capitalists ordered that it be so -- rather, it is the nature of any species surviving the trials of evolution to make more babies than is needed for replacement. Humans were no exception to this rule, and have until recent times always put out a lot of babies, but high births used to be balanced by high deaths from sickness and lack of food, etc. That this seems to be changing today is little consolation, when human overshoot is probably something like 4 times larger than what can long term survive on the planet at the very minimum. We have already done the overpopulation problem.
The overshoot is the root cause of all our problems, and because overshoot is made possible by fossil energy use, we also can't stop fossil energy use without causing immediate humanitarian global disaster. The time to act was quite a long time ago. It would have been good to stop the population explosion in the 70s at the very latest, and ramp down entire industrial civilization back then, but alas, we did not do so. We are now facing the consequences of over half century of continued delaying action, mounting pollution, and largely unchecked population growth. The attempt has been to extend the easy, comfortable life allowed by machine labor and industrial mass production of food and every other good to the entire world, rather than recognizing that it is fundamentally unsustainable and has a timer beyond where it is no longer feasible. This can probably be laid to some degree at the feet of capitalists, but ultimately the human need and want, and the tantalizing possibility of offering more for everyone, could possibly have created similar industrial production system under any political or economic system.
8E9resver@reddit
You had me right up until those last words. A similar industrial production system is diametrically opposed and thus incompatible with certain political and economic systems. Barring that nuance, yes.
There are many potential iterations in which this feels somehow inevitable and many iterations which might have skipped the Fertile Crescent, urbanization, monarchies, autocracies, the transatlantic slave trade, colonialism, industrial-scale genocide, and the Haber-Bosch process. Becomes the typical picture postcard vision of the multiverse very quickly.
economybadplantsgood@reddit
Overton window shifts right with austerity and unhappiness - weird phenomenon
Moochingaround@reddit
That has Nazi Germany vibes..
KieferSutherland@reddit
The one thing that nobody wants to admit. With our current technology and systems, 10 billion of us on earth are never go to live in a sustainable equilibrium with our climate and everything earth provides. We need massive depopulation. Not genocide but actively educating the world that babies are bad. Through feature or bug it seems our ways are negatively affecting our fertility rates. To which I say good. Get to 500m people ASAP is the only hope. Looks like it's going to happen regardless of what we do.
8E9resver@reddit
You're on Reddit, you're able to discuss these things because you know about them; do you really think you live outside the Empire just because the United States, and the ideological foundation it rests on, is burning to the ground?
Kaining@reddit
Living in what's basicaly a vassal state still ain't shit when it matters, influencing the empire.
We still got a few wins here and there with regulation in europe but they're meaningless. Great, all electronics will have the same charger port. Maybe we'll get something out of the "stop killing games" eu initiative.
What matters, stopping emission ? Yeah, drill baby drill. We eat shit like the rest of the world and we don't have any power to do anything about this from the outside.
Barnacle_B0b@reddit
Not capitalism, but it's variant : industrialism.
Gradients for earning as reward incentive for the importance and responsibilities of roles in society makes sense. The ideal use of capitalism as a tool is to create stable markets (e.g. sustaining, not growing) to cultivate continually compounding interest.
But then you put some industrialists behind it, the goal is not stability, but maximally sustaining growth, gains, and profit. The philosophy of an Industrialist is "If I don't : someone else will." Which, is also parallel in the school of thought "To a thief : everyone steals." And when people see what industrialists can get away with, because governments will sacrifice their dignity and security for the exchange of gdp and tools for power from the industrialists, we all find ourselves further trapped in their machine for humans to generate labor.
Tidezen@reddit
David was a step ahead of you there:
ChromaticStrike@reddit
I'm tired of hearing people projecting every issues on capitalism, like other forms of economy can't abuse Earth resources.
Kaining@reddit
The fact is that we had all other form of economy for the 300000 years humanity has been alive and for some reason, climate change started with capitalism a bit more than a couple hundred years ago.
I'm tired of people saying "i'm tired of people accusing that one thing that's 100% responsable for where we are" because they're unconfortable with the cold hard truth.
There is so much freaking wrong in capitalism ideology that it would take a good 250 years to list them all you know.
ChromaticStrike@reddit
You are wrong, technological advance is largely responsible for that and it's not tied to capitalism.
Kaining@reddit
No i'm not
u/LysergicWalnut explain part of it.
But the other reason is that other form of governance means that changing the leader can impact something. With capitalism, the power is removed from the government and here we are.
Capitalism needs to escape control to function, hell, it's end point is one person owning everything and not being able to change a thing because "making more" is the most important thing.
It's a litteral paperclip maximiser.
ChromaticStrike@reddit
I think human history doesn't lack example of dynasties that didn't really evolve in anyway in term of governing policies.
Kaining@reddit
We'd be using this for the definition of denial in the dictionary if we had half a brain.
The population explosion is absolutely linked with capitalism. It's a ponzy scheme that need more and more people to not stop. So we've been pumping and pumping new mouth, saying "we can still feed everybody" while half the world don't eat properly. While we destroy for good every single field and turns the earth to sand.
To get more worker
Because without more workers than the generation before, capitalism die.
ChromaticStrike@reddit
We'd be using this as a textbook example to get rid of yourself in a discussion if we had half a brain.
Industrialization of agriculture and processing is absolutely not chained to capitalism.
LysergicWalnut@reddit
The people who actually have the power to alter our course are choosing not to save the planet because it would be unprofitable to do so.
That is the reality. That is due to our global societal system of consumer-capitalism.
Yes, other systems can involve greed and exploitation en masse. But at this stage it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.
EPCOpress@reddit
Good luck to the inspects and cephalopods.
Clbull@reddit
I agree with Suzuki. It's too late to prevent climate change by merely cutting emissions. We need to pump our research into geoengineering efforts to cool the planet down.
Our 1.5°C targets died last year when global temperates hit the 1.7°C threshold. If Siberian permafrost truly thaws and releases tonnes of methane into the atmosphere, we could very much end up with a runaway greenhouse effect.
springcypripedium@reddit
I agree with Suzuki, too.
Regarding geoengineering . . . .
Excerpt (my bold) from https://elearncollege.com/environment-and-conservation/the-ethics-of-geoengineering-as-a-global-dilemma/:
"The Earth's climate system is incredibly complex, and any large-scale intervention could have unintended and unforeseen consequences. We simply do not yet fully understand the potential impacts of geoengineering on regional weather patterns, ocean currents, and ecosystems.
Moreover, the governance of geoengineering poses a major challenge. Who will decide which techniques to deploy, and where? How will we ensure that the benefits and risks are equitably distributed? These are complex questions with no easy answers, and they require careful consideration and international cooperation."
Even if we were guaranteed a 100% safe geoengineering plan (impossible) there is no way in hell countries will work together on a global scale.
And yes, from the research I've read, we could have a runaway greenhouse effect. See research by paleoceaonographer, James Kennett, who identified major changes in climate and oceanic conditions that occurred within decades.
https://kennett.faculty.geol.ucsb.edu/MostRecent.php
There were many who tried to debunk his clathrate gun hypothesis, like this in 2003:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2940045.stm
I would really like to know where the science on this sits today.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
This particular link is about Dansgaard/Oeschger events, which were a regional thing in the far north.
A global runaway greenhouse effect would be very different. As for thr clathrate gun hypothesis, it isn't really in the mainstream anymore, especially after the Royal Society and Caroline Ruppel's team did more research on seabed methane and concluded the theorized exponential release extremely unlikely.
Thr quickest release of large methane quantities is theorized to have happened in the PETM, over 3000-4000 years. Which is still insanely fast in geologic terms, so just because this process doesn't only take decades, it's still terrible. 9
springcypripedium@reddit
Thanks for your response! Very thought provoking.
Ruppel's work in 2016 found "no conclusive proof that hydrate-derived methane is reaching the atmosphere now, but more observational data and improved numerical models will better characterize the climate-hydrate synergy in the future."
I hope this is true. I did not know a scientific consensus was reached regarding release of methane from hydrates and the impact (or not) on warming.
I've read more recent studies, such as this below, that are not as optimistic as Ruppel re methane release from hydrates:
https://www.sej.org/headlines/study-shows-warming-oceans-could-bring-spike-seabed-methane-emissions
saveentropy@reddit
just wanted to say, i came across one of your posts about justine and claire in melancholia and agree. the slow torturous descent is horrible. with knowledge, my logical brain says i should be able to do something, to prepare, to act differently than others. but there is nothing to do.
Beneficial_Aside_518@reddit
Permafrost methane release is factored into climate models already.
anewmanjedi@reddit
Humans need the earth. The earth does not need humans. Many humans are about to learn this lesson the hard way.
Maleficent-Hope-3449@reddit
if he wasn't proposing a global communism/degrowth as a solution, I am not going to take his shit seriously.
gberliner@reddit
I recommend checking out some of the banger interviews UK journalist Aaron Bastani has been doing for Novaramedia (on his show, "Downstream") with top notch writers and thinkers about "big ideas" concerning modern civilization. A couple great ones he has done recently are:
Historians John Rapley and Peter Heather about their book, "Why Empires Fall" (2023), and Peter Turchin, "Endtimes" (2023).
It might or might not be any consolation, but at least it's probably worth considering that there are some greatly underappreciated transhistorical dynamics that overdetermine certain outcomes in human societies.
I think it is worth learning about this, to better understand both our capacities and limits of our free will and human choices to affect outcomes.
In Turchin's case, for example, he emphasizes that even social elites tend to mechanically play out roles in a disastrous script, one predictable from modern nonlinear dynamic systems analysis applied to large historical datasets, all the while believing sincerely that they are world historical "movers and shakers", and often fantasizing that they are on missions to "save civilization from 'barbarism' [or 'communism', or 'socialism', or 'primitive savagery', or 'DEI/wokism', or any of their latest fill-in-the-blank-bogiemen-du-jour"].
uptheantinatalism@reddit
Think we lost that fight a few years ago.
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
I know and that’s what I keep thinking, why is this hitting so hard. I have felt like it was too late for many years. It is different though, having a life long environmentalist who has done a ton dedicating his life to public education admit that it really is too late to do anything to stop it. I think you can show most people this and they will be like oh, that’s bad. Collapse is not a niche or extreme belief anymore it is just normal. Public discourse has changed so much in just a year or two. Reality is hitting many people and it’s hard. I’ve spent so much time reflecting on this and it is still hard for me and I have no worldly attachments to speak of, such as kids or property or wealth in general.
Timely-Assistant-370@reddit
When I saw the public's reaction to the A/C curfew that was imposed in Texas during the heatwave of 22', I knew we were cooked."Guys, we need to try our best to not set our shitass grid on fire, so turn your AC to 80 when the sun goes down."
"Yeehaw fuck you."
huehuehuehuehuuuu@reddit
If the rich don’t lead by example, the poor won’t follow.
RueTabegga@reddit
Businesses as well. It’s hard to want to conserve electricity when you drive past buildings all lit up and air conditioned for the evening completely empty. Banks, car sales, fast food, etc, etc, etc.
freedcreativity@reddit
Not to bootlick, but HVAC for a big commercial building can't really be turned off. Like the building envelope itself needs the climate control or it would rapidly deteriorate, mostly from humidity. It only takes a few months to get mold. To say nothing of the relative costs of pumping all the heat in/out of the building when you turn off the HVAC for any length of time. There is a reason why LEED buildings are built by even shitty, anti-climate companies and a lot of it is trying not to run HVAC constantly and designing for some natural air exchange.
digdog303@reddit
so you're saying we need to get rid of big commercial buildings huh? i agree!
RueTabegga@reddit
With all the tech we have there isn’t a more environmentally sound system?
J-A-S-08@reddit
Because we have physical limitations to our world, mainly laws of thermodynamics. Same reason you'll never get 300 people and all their luggage over the Pacific Ocean in 14 hours for $1000. If you want to do X process, you need Y energy. It takes energy and work to move BTU's of heat around and no amount of techno tweaks can overcome that. To add to freedcreativity's comment, they're pushing the limits of trying to do this as efficiently as possible. You just hit a point where no matter what, you will always need this much energy to do something.
-Union HVAC mechanic.
IncubusDarkness@reddit
They could/should put solar panels on all commercial buildings, but that will never happen.
KetchupIsABeverage@reddit
Thanks for the context. That makes sense about the humidity causing damage, especially in Texas.
Magnesium4YourHead@reddit
Buildings that don't even really need to exist. Like offices.
foxual@reddit
The conversation no one wants to have. Bulldoze the offices.
mk4_wagon@reddit
And then what, just have empty parking lots of of nothing right? There's definitely nothing that can be done with all that space. /s
This is near me, though I'm sure common anywhere. A couple years ago they cleared out a field that was used for youth soccer and made an office building. That company is now leaving. Another empty office building in a spot that used to be a nice open field. It could have been an actual park or something, but who needs that right? I've also been seeing a few old schools bulldozed for luxury homes. I get if the school doesn't need to be used anymore, but a luxury homes being put up is really something.
xmo113@reddit
So true. I remember working in near darkness in health care for a few days during a heat wave. On my way home each day I had to go through a mall to catch my bus home. Damn mall was lit up like Christmas in July. I was so confused.
Decloudo@reddit
I hate how people break down complex matters in such a way that completely misses the point.
Thats we cant deal with this, people dont even want to realize that this is not a problem cause some rich people are assholes.
Its a combination of systemic factors and misguided inherent human behaviour. Its not being evil or greedy. That notion solves nothing.
Whats causes this? And why can they do it against the will of the masses? Because they are not supported by what people want, but by what they do.
Shifting blame wont solve anything , it just makes sure no one feels the needs to be part of a solution.
AcademicDirection260@reddit
You’re right, but not for the reasons you were probably downvoted. It’s not about shifting blame to the poor, but shifting blame to the system. The system (capitalism) values profit over people and planet. So of course, some people will focus on getting as much profit as possible by any means necessary. These are the billionaires that we hate so much.
If we collectively valued planet and people over profit, or disallowed profit entirely, billionaires would not exist, and we wouldn’t be in the mess we are.
agumonkey@reddit
we need to fork off the mainstream
1-800-Henchman@reddit
Yeah, I think it's breakaway civilizations or bust. The bulk of humanity and current civilization seems destined to hit a physics bottleneck, and the way it is all interdependent risks taking out anything that isn't capable of operating insulated and self-sufficient from the larger system.
And because the stack of planetary and ecosystem services we've relied on for human habitability is undergoing demolition, that's going to take technology to compensate for those losses, and by extension breakaway societies large and advanced enough to maintain at least the minimum viable form of those technologies and their supply chains.
Something like that is going to a tall order even in the short term, but the world is only going to get harsher and this will continue further into the future than recorded history goes back.
Maybe we'll make a colony base on the moon or even Mars, but the first and maybe only planet where I think we'll do something like that on a meaningful scale is going to be Earth. If any of those are still based near the same paradigms that got us into this mess, then they're doomed to fail. Sustainability by it's nature is just not a negotiable thing.
phantom_in_the_cage@reddit
The majority of the rich will sooner build their own private grid than live a frugal life
dasnoob@reddit
Should have been "Guys we need to not set our shitass grid on fire so all these AI datacenters need to shutdown"
IncubusDarkness@reddit
Yeah I don't blame people for not listening. Some family of 5 that has a single window mounted A/C unit getting told to keep it off while it's still 104 after sunset - Meanwhile, you'll have every private building and office space blasting A/C when nobodies in the building, and like you said, thousands of data centres and production facilities using the majority of the power...
sirkatoris@reddit
Great point.
dasnoob@reddit
Shit we were having controlled outages here a few summers ago. You could drive around and sure as shit all the car dealerships were lit up at night. Fuck all these rich ass people telling us to stop having the few nice things we have while they literally burn our planet.
8E9resver@reddit
Always with that individual responsibility blame-shifting bs.
Useuless@reddit
Have the grid forcibly turn them off then. Even better if they use smart meters to let everybody have their fun and games but really just watch to see who didn't follow the rules and specifically punish them going forward.
Timely-Assistant-370@reddit
Texans will vote against their infrastructure being upgraded to be smarter than they are.
TinTamarro@reddit
During the drought of '22, people were advised to save water because the reservoirs were at record lows.
The response? A trending hashtag about people proudly leaving their taps open overnight.
We're so doomed.
HarryPouri@reddit
Wow I hadn't heard of that one. That's insane
TinTamarro@reddit
Just search "#rubinettiaperti" on a search engine, you'll find a lot of news articles about it
switchsk8r@reddit
maybe it’s just my views influenced by this subreddit but I think it would be great if influential people in climate came out saying it’s too late. I think that would spur more action than people saying we still have time to try.
At the very least everyone should get scared and agitated sooner than later. Collapse now so you don’t fall further, later.
Everybody loves to shit on doomerism (which is actually realism atp) but what has idealized thinking gotten us? Deeper into this shit.
And yes it is too late but it would be cool to see what we could achieve by trying.
EscapedMices@reddit
This is terrible and please forgive me, but I have nobody to talk to about this stuff without feeling insane. I actually feel insane for caring about it when nobody else does. So I asked DeepSeek about what the most realistic scenario was:
📆 Realistic Timelines of “Waking Up” Period Likely Climate Milestones Public/Political Reaction
2025–2030 Permanent breach of 1.5°C, more frequent climate extremes (fires, heatwaves, floods, crop losses) Denial cracks, but elites double down on “green growth,” carbon offsets, and militarized borders
2030–2035 2°C breached, widespread climate migration, insurance collapse, food instability Public shock sets in—governments may turn authoritarian, scapegoat migrants, criminalize dissent
2035–2040 Escalation of feedback loops (e.g., Amazon collapse, Arctic methane), severe crop failures Major cities may become unlivable during heatwaves. Infrastructure stress. More mass displacement. Realization spreads, but systems are brittle
2040+ 3°C looming, ecosystem crashes, permanent loss of Arctic summer ice, widespread geopolitical crisis Generalized awareness—but institutions will likely focus on survival, not justice or prevention
Even the neutral apolitical try to be positive etc etc ETC sites are just stating the facts now. There is nothing but collapse coming.
TuneGlum7903@reddit
That's actually a pretty realistic timeline.
EscapedMices@reddit
It's actually been DeepSeek basically telling me the world is ending every time I ask about this that has confirmed to me this is just it. It's been fed every storyline, study, scientist's words, facts etc and it just tells us that we're breaching 2 degrees in 10 years and 3 degrees will be on the horizon in 2040.
sagethewriter@reddit
Actually DeepSeek hasn’t been updated since July of 2024 I believe, so there’s a whole year of data it’s not factoring in
switchsk8r@reddit
no problem, (personally im against ai for environmental reasons tho), i think these are pretty realistic. things are speeding up and happening way to quick for people to jump into action, you are correct it'll just be immediate survival mode most likely. i still think the people that have more power to do actions will be shielded till 2040 and more major collapse events happen which furthers the issue.
EscapedMices@reddit
At the moment I'm thinking about the economic collapse. It'll be like Covid, people won't be able to work, food will be scarce. People won't be in consumer mode.
Debt will soon start to become irrelevant.
HommeMusical@reddit
I'm sorry, but I don't think so.
I noted a lot of people I knew a little bit went right from "You're overreacting," to "It's all over, nothing to be done," with absolutely nothing in between.
Indigo_Sunset@reddit
The jump from 'nothing to be done' to 'nothing to lose' is also quite short for some people. Once the perception of consequence goes out the window, so will a variety of other things.
switchsk8r@reddit
eh, not sure what other messaging there is. im trying to think of a middle ground but i guess that's giving people the "answer" which is basically degrowth and no one wants to do that either. they think someone else will do it.
i think people need to be scared to act, or at least some studies say people need to be directly affected or at least recognize how badly they'll be affected.
HommeMusical@reddit
By the time most people are affected, it'll be too late...
switchsk8r@reddit
yup. sucks that's the nature of this problem. i think with proper messaging we could've done a little bit and if it was in the interests of capital, but it just isn't.
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
It’s all just been an experiment. Scientists fed us best case scenario data because they didn’t want to scare people or investors away and thought that warning and educating the public would be enough to incite change. Well experiment failed it didn’t work.
switchsk8r@reddit
it just pisses me off that we're still doing it even as things are going to hell. i mean there's footage from like metro areas of 5 different countries flooded like crazy (china, andorra_ or having forest fires right now (turkey/greece)
megregd@reddit
Amen honestly. Seeing every single climate change doc or book ending with “there’s still time” and “we have a lot of cool technology coming that will help” gave us too much wiggle room to not worry about it as seriously as we should. Climate scientists were/are absolutely the worst communicators of all time.
RichardsLeftNipple@reddit
We have had the data for a long time. We have had the message for a long time.
What the west failed to do is have the spine! At every opportunity, our leaders chose money over the future of the planet.
Right now the options in the west are overshoot or ignore it. Which is the same thing. One plays pretend we will do something about it, the other hates the concept of actions having consequences for themselves.
Overshoot is just pretending we will have a stable enough society to somehow do enough carbon capture to put the catastrophe back in the bottle. But you know 40 years after the last boomer politician and business leader has died.
RogueVert@reddit
I believe the last real chance the Americans had was in the 70's when Carter treated them like adults. told them about the upcoming energy crisis and tried to get folks to transition to solar by being an example.
Then Reagan came along and took down the solar panels. W
we've been had for a long while now.
Dangermouse0@reddit
Though I’ve been hopeful, I’ve thought for the last couple decades that this was the case, that all the talk about carbon sequestration, green energy, etc, was empty rhetoric and the “by 2030/2050” is all arbitrary numbers.
Massive climate change is here, it’s unavoidable, and those in power are irresponsible.
LusterBlaze@reddit
expect conservatives to still blame immigration and lefties even as climate change worsens
CremeAcrobatic1748@reddit
I really more people understood the government insanity is simply to distract people from the approaching evil.
Humans are so easily manipulated, it's really pathetic
dirkdiggler2011@reddit
There was never any hope.
People are stupid, selfish, ignorant, and lazy.
Mass extinction is the only solution that will work.
cocochinha@reddit
Climate change has been watered down for so long, adaptation had been seen as something "silly" for so long.... This is it. Enjoy nature, friends, family and anything else you love while you can.
I sit by my pond almost daily, I enjoy the bees, butterflies, hummingbirds, and a number of other birds and insects. I'm taking it all in while it is still here.
I care for my chickens and bees the best I can, while they are still surviving.....
Enjoy nature while you can.
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
Yea I feel the tone is definitely shifting. Neil deGrasse made a video a little while ago as well about how cities have to adapt now. No preventing it. Unfortunately he made it sound like a very simple and easy thing to do. Every city in the world just has to adapt to weather disasters they have never experienced before.
DancesWithMantises@reddit
REVOLUTION!
Hephaestus1816@reddit
Governments will do nothing of note until there are mass deaths. And maybe not even then. Capital is more important than people.
Madness_Reigns@reddit
No, they'll for sure do something by then. Only problem is that the thing of note they will do is more authoritarianism, more fascism too.
Eydor@reddit
More authoritarianism, more religious fundamentalism, more wars. It's all that has been going on in the last few years and it will only get worse.
HeartsOfDarkness@reddit
Unironically, a "deep state" American government employee here: it's widely understood that the emissions battle has already been lost and that the goals set by well-meaning jurisdictions around the country will be quietly shifted or abandoned. We'd love to be doing more resiliency work, but the costs for genuinely meaningful resiliency infrastructure projects are astronomical. "We're pissing into the wind" is a pretty common phrase behind closed doors.
Hephaestus1816@reddit
I do not doubt it. The true cost of continuing to do business as usual will be paid later. By all of us.
flybyskyhi@reddit
People are only important insofar as they support capital
Same_Common4485@reddit
Well to really save the earth and its climate you needed (past tense bcs its too late) to take draconian measures for all voters and the corporations that buy/sponsor the politicians. Reducing the worlds population, industries need to go green, reduce overall consumption, no more meat, giving massive land back from humans to nature and put laws and law enforcement in place to protect it, ...
stumblingindarkness@reddit
It's easier to imagine the end of humanity than the end of capitalism - Mark Fisher
shewholaughslasts@reddit
Capitalism....uh ...finds a way. - not Jeff Goldblum
EscapedMices@reddit
It will go on and on until it shuts down the economy like Covid. It will go on and on until the crops aren't there so nobody can even eat enough to buy their plastic lulubus and their next video game or see their next Marvel.
BadgerKomodo@reddit
This makes me incredibly sad but unfortunately it’s true. I’m only 26, and the fact that I’m going to die of climate change most likely makes me really upset.
Content_Bed_1290@reddit
I am 39 and will be 40 later this year. Based on my age will I be dying from climate change as well?
SoFlaBarbie00@reddit
I’m a bit older than you at 47 and I actually think SHTF for good in the next 10-15 years. At that point, the climate impact and tangential societal collapse (which clearly has already begun in most of the western world; some countries further along than others) will be no holds barred and we’ll really begin to see carnage in about 20-25 years. I expect our day to day lives to look nearly 180 degrees different than they do today in 2050. The climate may not kill you directly but what comes with societal collapse just might.
Collapse2043@reddit
I’m 61 and hoping to die of climate change, not something else before then.
TuneGlum7903@reddit
It's a PROCESS that's going to take the rest of your life, however long you live.
It's mostly going to be about the breakdown of everything and your life becoming more and more unstable as well as poorer and poorer over time.
If you haven't seen it, consider watching this documentary from 2010. It's STILL one of the best climate crisis documentaries out there. It might give you some perspective about HOW things are likely to play out.
Earth 2100 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSIDL1TwTCU
Wikipedia:
Earth 2100 is a television program that was hosted by ABC journalist Bob Woodruff. The two-hour special explored what "a worst-case" future might look like if humans do not take action on current or impending problems that could threaten civilization.
The problems addressed in the program include current climate change, overpopulation, and misuse of energy resources. The events following the life of a fictitious storyteller, "Lucy" (told through the use of motion comics, or limited animation), as she describes how the events affect her life.
The program included predictions of a dystopian Earth in the years 2015, 2030, 2050, 2085, and 2100 by scientists, historians, social anthropologists, and economists, including Jared Diamond, Thomas Homer-Dixon, Peter Gleick, James Howard Kunstler, Heidi Cullen, Alex Steffen, and Joseph Tainter. It ended with a quote from writer Alex Steffen, saying "Kids born today will see us navigate past the first greatest test of humanity, which is: Can we actually be smart enough to live on a planet without destroying it?"
According to Executive Producer Michael Bicks, "this program was developed to show the worst-case scenario for human civilization. Again, we are not saying that these events will happen — rather, that if we fail to seriously address the complex problems of climate change, resource depletion and overpopulation, they are much more likely to happen."
1-800-Henchman@reddit
Hopium lol. /s
The estimates about the climate extending into the future usually fail to take into account the impact of feedbacks and tipping points, and just assume things will progress linearly.
The history of the planet indicates a tendency of systems to jolt into new states. So I think the future of the climate is going to look more like "wtf, oh shiiii".
Been a long time since I saw 2100 though. Might be worth watching again.
TuneGlum7903@reddit
Absolutely, it's ridiculously optimistic for today. It was made in 2009 and that was a more optimistic time. We didn't have as clear a picture of how BAD things are.
Still, it has some high powered minds doing actual analysis. It's WAY better than most of what you see out there.
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
The Howard Kunstler of 2009 is not the Howard Kunstler of 2025.
Rare-Imagination1224@reddit
Thanks for this, it’s really well put together and I’m sharing it with all the people I know that ‘just don’t get it’
Content_Bed_1290@reddit
Thanks, Im going to watch it later!
bipolarearthovershot@reddit
50/50 shot
CubaLibre1982@reddit
It is.
25TiMp@reddit
He is correct. We are fucked.
Gram__Negative@reddit
A f asteroid destroying the earth would be more merciful than this shit
jbiserkov@reddit
Planetary boundaries: https://www.stockholmresilience.org/research/planetary-boundaries.html
The 7th one is the Ocean Acidification.
BEERsandBURGERs@reddit
It's so hard with friends who have kids, never mind with my own brother who has two boys, to be perfectly honest when it comes to the climate catastrophe.
Now I can 'courageously' hide behind voices like his, when the people I love and care for, ask me on my feelings on the near future/next decades.
David Suzuki's advice regarding the Finnish pov seems on target but it requires 'sisu' to make it work, somewhat.
Complete-Phone95@reddit
Climate change will always lose in a private capitalist system.
The system has no mechanism for pricing things that can not be sold privately. The system can not put a value on the environment so it has zero value within the system.
Everyone knows it has a major value for the world,that the system would not even be possible without the environment. But because the system is unable to generate incentives for creating or maintaining things that can not be sold,can not be monetized,privately. It can not preserve the environment.
Its a systemic failure.
LargeLars01@reddit
I’m now on board for getting this over with
bluelifesacrifice@reddit
My tin foil hat hypothesis is that this will be used as a reason to basically wipe out most of humanity.
We're watching Trump go extreme into isolationism, and it really isn't going to take much to knock out civilizations.
The cuts to USAID is likely part of that plan to stop subsidizing countries that can't maintain their population, meaning people, a lot of people, are going to be dying off.
The big polluters are going to be going to war over this.
China is speeding green energy and likely will be one of the few that will be able to function without oil and isolate and lock down.
Climate change is terrifying to be because denialists demand extreme evidence that's irrefutable to fallacies and are locked into thinking oil companies are honest and scientists are just elites getting paid by the evil government or something.
I can't understand for the life of me why people are pro pollution. But we watched people be pro covid. So somehow we need to figure out how to govern if we're going to continue existing.
Fragrant-Education-3@reddit
People reject it because it directly challenges their ability to feel secure. People in the Western world don't like admitting that their lives could be heavily out of their control. People also reject it because addressing it implies going on fossi fuel withdrawal and making major changes to their lifestyle. People rarely like change. It's less pro-pollution and more pro-current modernity, it's just the latter guarantees the former.
esteemed-colleague@reddit
Suzuki may be right but he’s also a hypocrite. I live near him and I walk by his mansion. It’s not a humble abode suitable for a sustainable future. He’s more a part of the problem than he wants to admit to himself.
ngrandmathrow@reddit
He owns several properties. He's really no different from any other boomer. Except for maybe the fact that he has more money, more kids, travels more, etc.
MadeUAcctButIEatedIt@reddit
Could 8 billion people live like you do on one Earth?
If Suzuki were to live in a house smaller than yours, would that solve climate change?
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
Yea that’s how it always goes, 8 million dollar home, vacation home, beach property. It’s all still consumerism, wanting more and more even if he says he values a minimalist lifestyle.
centralvoid__@reddit
I've known this all to be true for a long time - it just greatly depresses me so. There are no second chances - there is no exit plan to another habitable planet. This is our only home, and we're fucking it up. One can only hope a civilization out there among the stars isn't self-deleting themselves like we are due to sheer greed and stupidity.
General_Salami@reddit
As someone who has worked in conservation and climate mitigation my entire life this is sadly true and for the exact reason he references here — we make everything about humans. When I began my career it was all about protecting forests; conserving lands, water, wildlife; and adopting green technologies and a more regulated fossil fuel sector. We got a lot done during the Obama years all things considered. Then came the BLM movement, something I actively took part in, and various social justice organizations who entered the scene and insisted that any bill or initiative must include substantial social and racial justice reforms. Environmental groups were pressured and ultimately forced to take positions on issues well outside our areas of expertise and did so with the understanding we’d get mutual solidarity in return. I negotiated a deal between the countries largest conservation and social justice organizations around a shared platform of border demilitarization and conservation of critical wildlife habitat and migratory pathways. It was a grueling process but I remember having so much faith when we all landed on a set of policy reforms and they were wonderful people on a personal level.
However, Ultimately, Save for the BIPOC voter turnout, which to their credit truly saved our asses several times, these social justice groups did not hesitate to sell us out in exchange for purely social justice related wins. That solitary with my organization and with me felt broken. In the end I went against my org and on personal time sent over maps to the committees of jurisdiction to save some semblance of the rio grande valley’s wildlands.
From there things spiraled. Pressure campaigns inside and outside organizations forced a shift in funding to justice related issues and defunded conservation, forestry, and climate resilience —despite many groups continuing to this day to fundraise off conservation issues and redirect that non-restricted funding (something precious in the NGO world) toward other issues that were purely geared around environmental policy being a vehicle for social justice issues. Issues experts and scientists opinions became devalued and often were accused of elitism or paternalism in favor populist policy.
The sad truth is that true justice and equity when compared to addressing the climate crisis are two very different issues - one markedly more subjective than the other. We severely destabilized our climate in such a short period of geological time that no ecosystem has had time to adjust - the timeframe was clear and severely urgent to change course. Meanwhile Humanity’s hatred, sexism, racism, and bigotry runs so deep, and with violence being part of the human condition, it’s something that will take generations to address and contain.
I’ve never written this out before and this is just one person’s experience but I agree with him. It’s damage control at this point thanks to corruption on both sides of the sociopolitical spectrum.
springcypripedium@reddit
I worked in conservation (watershed protection) for over 20 years. I agree with David (and you) 100%. I've seen this coming for decades. When the term "green growth" was being tossed around and embraced by so many big and small environmental groups (25 years ago!) I knew it was over for all ecosystems on Earth, and thus humans, too.
United-Breakfast5025@reddit
You know that feeling you get once in a while? It's like a sixth sense that something tragic will happen. I believe people have a preconception ability, like a third eye...
This is it. For me, this is it.
CAWildKitty@reddit
I agree. I think people know but for many (if not most) it’s at a subconscious level. Someone here recently described a collective “change in demeanor” that humanity is displaying. I think this is behind it. People are detaching, retreating from IRL interaction, tossing empathy overboard and just behaving weirdly in general. I think this is the precursor and as it becomes more and more obvious…well who knows how that goes. A mass wet bulb event might take place, or a major food chain shock, pick your disaster but something is gonna hit us in the face. Often people do come together in mutual aid but this is going to be so big, so overwhelming that we’ve never been tested as a species like this before. My mind goes blank just thinking about it.
springcypripedium@reddit
Very good points. We have never been here before as a species. David S. suggests focusing on building community which is not reassuring based on my experience with humans in groups----especially in the u.s. People are losing empathy and compassion. I see many maga people coming together, united and fueled by their hate, but that's about it as far as signs of community building from my vantage point. I'm wishing I could move to Finland!
United-Breakfast5025@reddit
The financial system will go first and catastrophically. It's the most complex machine humans have ever built, and we can smash hydrogen atoms together at almost light speed...
Fear, panic, and fomo will be the catalyst. It would be a mercy, a kindness, and literally the only thing we can do now to save our species. It will also allow the wealthy a measure of control, and let's be honest, no one wants to ruel a graveyard.
NotClayDabbler@reddit
Sadly true.
Certain_Mongoose_704@reddit
It's been too late since like 2010
ThrowRA-confused-gf@reddit
Reading this article is the first time I've actually cried from climate change related information. It is so stomach-churning to read what Suzuki wrote.
I hope all of you have as good of a life as you possibly can.
ThrowRA-confused-gf@reddit
Is there a video for this interview? Is iPolitics a reliable source?
Cheetawolf@reddit
I'm not having children, and I'm glad.
Living is now a fate worse than death.
blackviking45@reddit
Living is not the problem with all its complications as I am living it myself. The parts where I struggle extremely hard is when my sense of meaning of life starts to slip away.
The meaning has to be grand that's for sure because those complications I do admit arent just a walk in the park. So what could be that kind of meaning? Such grand meaning cannot be within the sphere of life because life is too short and everybody dies. It HAS to relate to a God who is maybe working towards a transcendent goal.
As a Muslim from Islam I learned how Allah from the depths of the void brought out an existence where He decided to stand for The Truth. He separated good and evil which were at the same level before. Now by standing for it and elevating the good He brings down the evil. According to authentic sayings of the prophet He even limits Himself like He forces His mercy to prevail His wrath He forces injustice to be unlawful for Himself.
Think of the beauty of this He could have stood for evil and this existence would be something so horrible that getting back to the void through any means sicide or anything would have been better but by Allah standing for the exhibition and establishment of The Truth through symbolic happenings and symbolic objects He saved this fabric. He claims He will have achieved a landscape where all moral conditions are fulfilled and none is left out.
He even says in Quran that He hasnt made this all for sport rather He hurls the Truth towards falsehood and lo it vanishes. So I believe Him and things have been happening in my life to make me believe in Him more it just all feels so symbolic everything that happens when I ponder I find that it was a symbolic of some truth. So yeah I believe Him He certainly is our last and only hope not just for us for the fabric of reality as well as no hope I can have from humans when it comes to such gigantic task of defeating evil. Humans can do stuff but nothing so grand like that that is out of our league only a God can do it and Allah will He is The One.
EscapedMices@reddit
Our parents didn't know what was coming. The kids who are born today have parents who do. I hope those children never forgive their parents for bringing them into this.
robotjyanai@reddit
Honestly, I don’t even know if people having kids now know what’s coming. Whenever I bring it up climate change with friends who are new parents, they just say, “I love all these sunny days!”, “Better than rain/snow!” Or something dumb like that.
starsinthesky12@reddit
None of them know, heads buried in the sand
NoMoreColoniesDCPRVI@reddit
Our parents can be excused for not knowing what is coming though. There was much less reason to believe our civilization is going to collapse because of climate change back then. And the awareness was much lower presumably. But new parents now must be sticking their heads in the sand. Idk if denial can be clinical but this having kids stuff is clinical denial. Having a baby in 2025 is crazyyyyy
NoMoreColoniesDCPRVI@reddit
Agree with all of that
cinesias@reddit
It was probably over in 1950.
1491Sparrow@reddit
Yeah I wonder who's fault that is? The dude has five children and owns eight houses at last count.
TheArcticFox444@reddit
Suzuki says it via climate, Henry Gee (senior editor journal Nature) says it via genetics, and Anonymous says it via behavior...it's too late!
AnhedonicHell88@reddit
What does Henry Gee say about genetics
TheArcticFox444@reddit
The Decline and Fall of the Human Empire by Henry Gee, 2025.
Also: audio narration of Henry Gee's piece: https://soundcloud.com/michael-dowd-grace-limits/henry-gee-humans-are-doomed-to-go-extinct-122821
blitzkrieg_bunny@reddit
r/noshitsherlock
presidentofyouganda@reddit
I think everyone at least subconsciously knows that
Humanist_2020@reddit
It’s too late baby, yeah it’s too late, though we really did try to make it…🎵🎹🎶
DoeJrPuck@reddit
I'm so fucking scared
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
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timesuck47@reddit
Live your life one day at a time. That’s the only way to (mentally) survive this (at least for now).
GogOfEep@reddit
Not too much longer now.
DaperDandle@reddit
20,000 years of this ~~7~~3 more to go.
Ok_Resolution5916@reddit
Me too
HommeMusical@reddit
I'm pretty frightened but I console myself that everyone owes the universe one death, and at least we get to see how it all turns out.
BadgerKomodo@reddit
Me too
RamblinRoyce@reddit
Smoke em if ya got em!
JPGer@reddit
https://youtu.be/pNYp6oc37ds?si=YB2oZWK2oWyXIhrn
gets more relevant every year XD
yes its the newsroom clip
RamblinRoyce@reddit
Yup. Was gonna post this same clip.
"If we face this problem head on, if we listen to our best scientists, and act decisively, and passionately … i still don't see anyway we can survive."
Cowicidal@reddit
I'm not religious but even I can see that humanity has collectively chosen evil darkness over goodness and light. I regret that in my youth I was brainwashed to mock hippies for being flakey tree huggers and such. They were right and we all should have defended this earth and humanity against corporatists instead of stupidly and cowardly latching on to the milky teat of corporate influence.
That said, it's not too late to at least mitigate some of the worst aspects of climate catastrophe. I'm not going to stop fighting because if I do I become a lot like the inhuman scum that got us to this devastating point in collapse in the first place.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Many of those same hippies proudly voted for Trump in 2016, 2020, and 2024.
Cowicidal@reddit
I think you're referring boomers from the 60's and too many of them did indeed do that. I'm mostly talking about Gen X who are deceptively mixed in with boomers in exit polls. Once one excises the boomers from Gen X in the polls their voting habits more closely resemble some younger gens.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
Millennials were never hippies - that movement ended by 1974 at the latest. Many of the oldest Boomers (1946-1955) were also the 1960s hippies BTW, voted for Trump - some have been Republican since Reagan (my sister is one of those).
Cowicidal@reddit
I see your point about the hippie movement, but you're missing mine. Again, I’m not (mostly) referring to hippies from the 1960's. The term continued to describe people well beyond 1974 and that's who I've said I'm referring to. If you want to have a pedantic argument about the term "hippy", I'm not terribly interested.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
I was alive during the counter-culture.
The anti-war movement effectively ended with the bombing of Sterling Hall at the University of Wisconsin in 1970, although the Weather Underground continued for a couple of more years. All protests ended for good in January 1973 with the ~~surrender~~ retreat of US forces in Viet Name.
"Hippies" were passe after 1973.
The people old enough to BE hippies were born between 1939 and 1951 (assuming 18+ years of age in 1969; those participating in the Summer of Love would've been born in 1939 or earlier 1949. The phrase "don't trust anyone over 30" was a thing in the late Sixties.
No one was described as a "hippie" (get the spelling right, at least) post 1974.
Cowicidal@reddit
https://i.imgur.com/DR2CBQP.gif
Calm down.
Who is no one? Okay, I'll bite before I block you because pedants bore me to death.
My assorted friends and I called people hippies (singular hippy because who gives a shit) in every state I lived in over the years past 1974 describing everyone from Grateful Dead fans to environmental activist vegans to "new age" hippies (or hippys) — and many self-applied that label as well (I'm sure to your chagrin, lol).
Sorry, they didn't all subscribe to your pedantry and gatekeeping. Cope. On that note, I'd love for you tell everyone in this following thread they weren't hippies. That would be hilariously futile.
https://np.reddit.com/r/GenX/comments/1jvwii4/90s_hippies/
https://np.reddit.com/r/OldSchoolCool/comments/18rmz6w/1996_hippy_chick_with_a_dog_is_interviewed/
boognish30@reddit
It has been for a while, sadly. Maybe industrial collapse will happen soon enough that remaining human enclaves can return to tribal living in a better balance with nature. Or maybe best that this evolutionary cul-de-sac just winds down.
Konradleijon@reddit
Yet people care more about immigrants then climate change
sunshine-x@reddit
Oh they’re gonna care about immigrants alright… wet bulb events are going to urge people into migration like nothing we’ve ever experienced. Good fucking luck stopping millions of people from pushing through any borders.
United-Breakfast5025@reddit
The administration is very aware of this problem. People in the West will likely become desensitized. Blowing up a boat or drone strikes on civilians probably wont even make the news.
-big-farter-@reddit
Yeah they play dumb and deny climate change, but the reality is the isolationist agenda is calculated to wall the country in and hope to survive the collapse. It won’t work, and we need global cooperation to hope to survive.
j592dk_91_c3w-h_d_r@reddit
Is there any evidence other than speculation that the Trump cabal’s policies are geared toward prepping for a future calamity and they see the writing on the wall? Honest question. I would actually take some comfort in knowing that.
-big-farter-@reddit
No directly evidence, but it’s the only explanation that makes sense for what they have been doing since inauguration.
United-Breakfast5025@reddit
No one is going to cooperate, dont be delusional... Everything and anything available will be turned into a weapon.
-big-farter-@reddit
I said we need global cooperation, I said nothing about our ability to cooperate. Just identified the need. I’m not delusional.
United-Breakfast5025@reddit
I get it, and people are capable of great things. it's just too late... When under survival stress, no one is going to give up their food and tolerate someone shitting in their water.
-big-farter-@reddit
Yeah we’re too far gone to organize in the way we need to. Rapid global de-industrialization and de-growth is the only way. Instead we are pedal to the metal on the fires of industry that created this problem.
United-Breakfast5025@reddit
The best time to make a better way was 50 years ago. The next best time is right now.
-big-farter-@reddit
My focus right now is to form strong community bonds in my neighborhood. When the grocery stores close I’d rather be able to rely on my neighbors, and for them to rely on me, instead of total anarchy.
United-Breakfast5025@reddit
Well, who's going to feed the apartment people? The micro lot people? I get preparedness, but austerity makes people animals. Governments are too afraid of losing control because they know whats going to happen.
-big-farter-@reddit
I wish I could answer those questions. I live in a large west coast city and the reality is if the global and nation food distribution networks break down people will starve. I might be able to hold out for a bit with my wife and daughter but I’m not sure how long we could survive total collapse.
United-Breakfast5025@reddit
Im an apartment people with a wife and daughter. Nothing motivates people like a hungry child... I hate to say it, but my plan is to run away if a breakdown occurs. Those two will get me killed.
I envy previous generations for not having to confront this reality.
BrightCandle@reddit
They are worried about millions over decades, it's going to be billions in years.
MadeUAcctButIEatedIt@reddit
But what do you think happens to the average carbon footprint when a population shifts from the Global South to the first world?
Evilblxnt@reddit
Reddit user discovers you can care about 2 issues at once
switchsk8r@reddit
Hopefully they are criticizing people focused on “illegals” 😓
herpderption@reddit
I think people care about masked police black bagging people and throwing them into torture chambers while half the country they called home cheers for them to be torn limb from limb by live alligators like some of the laziest dystopian fiction you can buy in an airport gift shop.
America is not a place that is going to elevate climate action leadership unless you count the sharp drop-off in consumption and population associated with total economic and domestic industrial collapse. A good chunk of this population actively wants the world to burn and die. I do not expect rational behavior to emerge from this soup.
busshelterrevolution@reddit
Immigrants are the scapegoats
Owlguard33@reddit
Some of the comments on the r/Canada sub in response to this, more or less encapsulates why we are in this mess to begin with. Truly frightening.
j_mantuf@reddit
There never was a fight to begin with.
The current CO2 ppm already is enough to make this planet inhospitable to most life forms.
All the bad things are going to happen, it’s now just a matter of time.
SomeRandomGuydotdot@reddit
You realize our understanding of mass extinctions and atmospheric science was predicated on fucking with the atmosphere right?
Like, this is where societal surplus came from...
SICdrums@reddit
What's the point of this comment?
SomeRandomGuydotdot@reddit
I think OP is right.
That by the time we really realized just how bad we fucked up, the system was already poorly aligned.
Only the reason we were able to realize how fucked we were is precisely because we were already down the garden path.
This sentiment is clearly unpopular, but I do believe it's true.
HomoExtinctisus@reddit
I recognize it as truth and it is not unpopular in my brain.
liatrisinbloom@reddit
Billionaires like Musk publicly wring their hands over depopulation. But. They want it to happen, just at their hand, because they get off on the power of inflicting an extinction-level event without blowback.
Bandits101@reddit
Yeah Trump and the MAGA doctrine. When does he declare that America was last great? Was it when he says just tariff’s for tax was what was required? Well if he thinks 1900 was so great he has to get back to a population of 75M.
He has to reduce population by 100M to get to the Reagan years or prior to 1970 when oil production peaked. Things are not as simple as saying MAGA but 75M last voted and declared it was as simple as that.
https://www.multpl.com/united-states-population/table/by-year
slykethephoxenix@reddit
Anyone who's read the IPCC report since 2019 would be able to tell you that it was already too late in the early 90s, and we just didn't realise it until the 2010s.
Snoo_99759@reddit
Ya’ll want to know what was the most sad and jarring thing for me to ever hear in my life? I worked a customer service job years ago and this sweet older man calls in and asks where I’m based - I say Washington State. He chuckles and goes, “That’s great. It’ll turn into a climate similar to CA’s with the rare climate change is going so you’re in a place to be. Oh I’m a climate scientist by the way.” I cried. I cried at work. No one wants to talk about it. My partner says, “stop doom scrolling we’ll just die when it happens.” Every day the panic and fear sets in at least once a day. I just want to find somewhere far away from the city and ride it out with my kitties until my time comes. I am NEVER having kids.
sorry97@reddit
Our future was taken away. They expect infinite growth to continue, but we’re already reaching the limits of everything.
Doomerism aside, it’s far more likely we’ll all die in a third world war (for water obviously), before the climate catastrophe. Tbf, I’d rather be obliterated to death from an atomic bomb, than continue on this slow, painful, ride that is environmental collapse.
Snoo_99759@reddit
Fun haha I like your POV
Jaded-March4885@reddit
I don't really have any words of comfort, but I feel your pain and despair, and I'm sorry. It's valid. For me, I'm just keeping a kit for a quick exit, to be honest. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that. Hopefully that doesn't read too dramatic. I just don't want to be worked to death or die in a cage or worse; going out on my own terms seems like a luxury by comparison.
It's definitely not my place, but I say doom scroll as much as you'd like cuz I'm not so sure if anything matters at fuckin all at this point. Smoke em if you got em, yknow?
Snoo_99759@reddit
Yes - I’ll have a nice glass of wine tonight and try to enjoy the holiday weekend haha
sp1steel@reddit
There are no good options left. There aren't even any bad options left.
cosmiccoffee9@reddit
nah I can at least think of some bad options.
TuneGlum7903@reddit
Geoengineering comes to mind.
Reluctant_Firestorm@reddit
There's a couple of bad options. They are quite bad. And while they might temporarily interrupt the warming of the planet, they don't address CO2 concentrations.
spinbutton@reddit
I'm sure wars will be the next step. wee.
lck44@reddit
😔
NyriasNeo@reddit
"It is incredible to see such an influential man actually admitting the reality of our situation for once"
That is just plain wrong. If he is influential, we won't be in this mess right now. Heck, if he is influential, people will start talking about planetary boundaries when 1 is passed, not until now. In fact, is he even in any of the mainstream media with a following?
And I do not need him to say it before knowing that climate change is lost. We already passed 1.5C (1.6 this year) and blew through 2C briefly. The US voted or "drill baby drill". I doubt anyone who even cares a little needs this to be made more clear. But of course most would not give a sh*t.
midgaze@reddit
We never even slowed down the increase of the increase of CO2. We didn't just fail, we failed in spectacular fashion.
Kangas_Khan@reddit
Irnonically the ones that are doing the most to prepare for this are the authoritarian nightmares, if god even exists, he has abandoned us, perhaps rightfully so.
Ok-Egg835@reddit
I'm so glad a public and esteemed environmentalist is finally admitting it publicly. Not that it will solve the problem/predicament or anything, but it's nice when even a tiny amount of the gaslighting stops.
Bandits101@reddit
Yeah we’re screwed but it hasn’t happened recently, it’s been that way for more than half a century, perhaps even before we passed 3 billion people.
There have been countless books written, numerous scientific papers and television documentaries but guess what the vast majority have concluded with…..
They conclude with the caveat that it’s NOT unstoppable “IF we…….we could……there’s time if……” and so on. And the solutions of course are technical and in the future.
Electric cars, wind mills, solar power, nuclear, plant trees, vegetarian, recycle. All the while we add more people that require more land for agriculture and herds, more energy and land for development, industry and retail strip malls.
We have been cognisant about “population overshoot” for forever and we’ve ignored it, pretended it isn’t a factor, made it taboo to acknowledge.
We dilute our pollutions so they are invisible and therefore in our estimations negligible. Only if we see it, as in smog or trash etc is it addressed.
Hubris, considered exceptionalism permeate our reasoning. I suppose exploiting fossil fuels seemed to elevate our thinking, made us gods that relegated thermodynamics and the exponential function to fantasy.
Pointless, useless rant over.
Educational_Snow7092@reddit
What "fight"? If the past 4 decades of babbling and hot air was "fighting", then UFC is a tea party.
Adopting the term "climate change" in place of global warming was when the feeble attempt to prevent the unavoidable dystopian future was lost.
Climate means weather, so the term "climate change" means weather change, which is redundant.
The term "climate change" was coined by a Republican propaganda strategist, Frank Luntz because he found the term "global warming" too disturbing.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/21/frank-luntz-wrong-climate-change-1470653
The "Inconvenient Truth" is the Unavoidable Truth. There should be an effort to change the term from "climate change" to climate crisis, but it doesn't matter. The ship has sailed.
Who cares, right? Carry on laughing.
sloppymoves@reddit
Global warming was never a good term anyways, because then you'll get disingenuous shits or dumb people who will go, "Damn it's so cold this winter. So much for global warming."
But really. People won't ever respond to something until it directly effects them.
AlwaysPissedOff59@reddit
"Global warming was never a good term anyways, because then you'll get disingenuous shits or dumb people who will go, "Damn it's so cold this winter. So much for global warming.""
Like that idiot senator (I apologize for being redundant) from Oklahoma who brought a snowball onto the Senate floor.
Psychological-Sport1@reddit
I remember when the republicans under Reagan coined ‘climate change’ instead of the scary ‘global warming’……in 1980’s…..I was like 20 something no, global warming yet….so, um, where’s all the nanobots that we should have to absorb the C02 ??
erstwhileinfidel@reddit
It's not only lost, our leaders are actively working to make it as bad as humanly possible. And with humanity, it's always possible to make it worse.
Neumaschine@reddit
Humanity has this bad habit of waiting until it is all up in chaos, and then tries to act to put out all of the fires after the shitstorm. This unites us as a species.
Global-Damage-2261@reddit
Watch how well the rich treat the poor. We, the light of wealth and bunkers, will be left to fend for ourselves. It might sound like a conspiracy theory but I think it's just a logical progression. The rich are very good at protecting what's theirs or what they believe they deserve. When interests align you don't need a conspiracy. Just coordination of like minded individuals with the same perverted values.
RagingNerdaholic@reddit
Here's a cute lesson for all the billionaire fucknuts.
CheerleaderOnDrugs@reddit
Thank you, that was very moving.
RagingNerdaholic@reddit
It's basically the official /r/collapse primer.
MrsSynchronie@reddit
I think you’re exactly right. It’s an emergent phenomenon, it seems, not a grand plan.
boomaDooma@reddit
I would like everyone to welcome David to r/collapse, our newest member.
ramdom-ink@reddit
”I absolutely disagree with [Prime Minister] Carney that the economy and market forces need to be used because the economy itself is driving us into the ditch. It’s based on the creed of cancer — steady growth — and you can’t have endless growth in a finite world. The global economy is far too big, it’s got to shrink, and it’s got to be distributed more equitably around the world.”
Too late.
extinction6@reddit
"I’ve never said this before to the media, but it’s too late."
Oh now he tells us, DAMN!!!! /s
Designer_Valuable_18@reddit
It's joever gang
Bigginge61@reddit
The reason we are in such an awful state is because we have no been playing the Red team Blue team bollocks for decades…They are OWNED by the same people, they are CONTROLLED by the same people….Come on guys wake the fuck up, is it something in the water??
WhippleChill@reddit
Yes, we are damned. Nothing short of the entire human population of Earth choosing to coalesce and devote everything to softening what's coming will save us. I've been saying this for 10 years.
We. Are. Fucked.
MmeLaRue@reddit
Time for the apocalypse to begin, as narrated by Gwynne Dyer.
Key_Pace_2496@reddit
No shit Sherlock lmao.
HommeMusical@reddit
David Suzuki is a big voice in environmentalism and he's so far tried to show some sort of hope. It's actually news that he's given up.
Sullyville@reddit
I'm Canadian and grew up and he was MISTER ENVIRONMENT to every single school kid. He hosted the Nature of Things and had all these environment books.
This hits hard.
HommeMusical@reddit
I went to high school and university in Canada, I watched The Nature of Things. I just feel a bit numb, mainly because I went through a grief cycle on this issue a couple of years ago...
Karahi00@reddit
I mean, yeah no shit but it is shocking to see someone like Suzuki finally say "yeah, we're screwed for preventing disaster - better start focusing on survival."
Ree_on_ice@reddit
I guess he stopped caring about the optics and his 'career' at his old age. Shame to anyone who's staying quiet because of fear.
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
"trump was the dagger to my heart"
Ree_on_ice@reddit
Ah, you got me lol.
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
That is exactly it, this is like a societal tipping point haha. A man that has dedicated his life to climate advocacy, who has done so much in an attempt to steer us onto a better path, has admitted that it failed. Even a few years ago he would never had said this. Trump is the embodiment of capitalism and neoliberalism in David's words, that is why he won because that is the path we are locked into. And Trump winning is why David has lost hope in changing the government or the law.
I wonder if a smear campaign will come out against him soon. This seems quite disruptive to the status quo, BUA. Can't have the peasants abandoning their farms yet as Richard talks about in his previous report.
RagingNerdaholic@reddit
I doubt Trump is even vaguely aware David exists.
Popular_Dirt_1154@reddit (OP)
Why would Trump care?
The ones who will care are the ones dependant on green growth initiatives, the people who have been silencing or labelling people Doomers because it hurts their investments to address the reality of our situation. The people that have only given us best case data scenarios because they didn't want to cause panic. People with children who have faith that human progress will save us, a majority of the population is not aware of what we are heading towards and currently dealing with.
David has given a bold reality check to everyone, regardless of their beliefs and I think some people will try to discredit him for such a move.
a_dance_with_fire@reddit
Great interview with lots of good talking points. In addition to some quotes already mentioned, this one also stuck out to me. Is too bad this isn’t the norm for evaluating standards of living:
GhoulieGumDrops@reddit
Phew, I should've waited to read this until it was late enough in the day for a beer.
FantasticOutside7@reddit
Fuck it, I have one anyway. It doesn’t matter. Although it’s two hours later now lol
winston_obrien@reddit
Welcome to the club, Dave
daviddjg0033@reddit
Its not our fault That we were born too late A screaming headache Killing Dying is appropriate
trickortreat89@reddit
We know…. We know 🥲
StrongAroma@reddit
I remember how David Suzuki was demonized and mocked in the early 2000s for calling out the dangers of climate change. Unfortunately humanity has learned nothing and we don't deserve a man of his calibre.
Vegetaman916@reddit
Huh. And here I thought I said this years ago. Not loudly enough, it seems.
UncleBaguette@reddit
We've lost it decade ago. Now the only thing we can do is damage control
Barjuden@reddit
We know
Complex_Confusion552@reddit
Somebody say the line...
OfficialBestBuy@reddit
Nothing ever happens?
Complex_Confusion552@reddit
Yepper... everything is fine
Frozty23@reddit
So, like One Second After, only this is going to be 50 Years After the first IPCC.
Dudeogenes@reddit
OfficialBestBuy@reddit
So long as there is value to extract we will press on
dANNN738@reddit
It will only work with absolute draconian power and people are far too weak to impose or endure it.
InfinityCent@reddit
Such a great article.
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Popular_Dirt_1154:
Submission Statement: This is related to collapse because a life long climate activist who we all know has come out and said we have known for a long time now. The drudgery of government, economics, and politics have failed to produce any meaningful change towards addressing climate change.
David Suzuki's use of the word failure is in response to how "the focus on politics, economics, and law are all destined to fail because they are based around humans." We have forgotten what really matters "nature, clean air, pure water, rich soil, food, and sunlight." and have instead chosen the path of infinite growth on a finite planet to save us.
Part of David Suzuki's "doomerism" as people will probably soon start labelling him is that we have crossed 7 out of 9 planetary boundaries as outlined by Rockström saying "we have five years to get out of the danger zone."
"If we pass one boundary, we should be shitting our pants. We’ve passed seven!"
It is incredible to see such an influential man actually admitting the reality of our situation for once. It is as if we are no longer taking crazy pills. How anyone can see Johan Rockström's work and think, 'well we have until 2050 to reach net zero so its okay' or the worse 'we will hit 3C in 2100 so we have lots of time' is insane.
Trump was the dagger in David Suzuki's heart as I feel it probably was for many of us here. What he says here is true, there is nothing we can do to stop the destruction that Trump will cause, what is left is to build resilience and connection within communities. As the government will be unable to address even a fraction of the destruction that is coming if they don't out right collapse as the "peasants abandon their farms."
Expect excessive backlash towards David after this announcement as the green growth economic obsessed businessmen label him a doomer for hurting their investments and "destroying our only chance at stopping climate change." Richards previous report went into how most people think climate change is bad but that science, progress, the market will save us. I think they will be the ones most hurt by David's reality check.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1lquj86/its_too_late_david_suzuki_says_the_fight_against/n15pcb0/