Kazakhstan bans face coverings in public places
Posted by BabylonianWeeb@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 63 comments
Posted by BabylonianWeeb@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 63 comments
majoneskongur@reddit
>The text of the law says clothing that "interferes with facial recognition" will be banned in public, with exemptions for medical purposes, in adverse weather conditions and at sporting and cultural events.
nice
TheCitizenXane@reddit
Very nice, I too love telling women what to wear and making it a crime when they refuse.
celloh234@reddit
how is it any different to tell them what they cant wear and make it a crime when they refuse
BigFreakingZombie@reddit
Do you think they wear it out of their own free will ? It's culturally acceptable pressure by the whole family at best , "put that thing on or else..." at worst.
Fit_Rice_3485@reddit
Clearly you have not traveled around the world
There are many woman who wear these clothes and face covering for their own very free will. Even after they moved countries, changed homes, company or whatnot
ALobbyOfHobbies@reddit
ever heard of social pressure or internalized misogyny
BigFreakingZombie@reddit
Oh give me a break... Are you not familiar with how religious fundamentalism works ? Or you choose to ignore it because ''muh brown people '' ??
Even if the law in their new countries theoretically allows them to not put the covering on and protects them if they choose to exercise that right in practice it doesn't protect them from at minimum being ostracized by their community (and potentially far far worse) .
Safe-Bee6962@reddit
Do you know…ANY Muslim women? Even one?
I know many who live in US and Australia. Most of them are hijabi, and it is ABSOLUTELY a personal choice they make as a commitment to their deity of choice. The consequences of them doing so, socially, is higher than if they hadn’t, which is fucked, and full disrespect what you’re saying is fucked as well.
We should yearn for a world in which the wearing of a head covering for religious purpose is neither forced nor banned. Arguing either which way is robbing women of their autonomy - banning doesn’t “free them” the same as requiring it doesn’t help them.
BigFreakingZombie@reddit
Religious indoctrination can absolutely make someone feel like they are doing something out if their own free will without it really being so.
Also the "consequences " can vary from constant " she's turning into a Western whore" comments at every family meeting to straight up acid attacks or honor killings. Also the "choice" isn't really done at adulthood do you really think a young (as in 10 or 12 years old) girl is really capable of freely making that decision especially if there's a father and older brothers in the middle???
I don't get it . I really don't where does that fixation with framing an oppressive,medieval measure as "feminism" or "women's autonomy " comes from ? Despite it being based on a 7th century stupid book ,Despite testimony from many Muslims themselves despite everything. Is it historical guilt ? Desire to avoid appearing racist ? I really don't get it.
Safe-Bee6962@reddit
You make a very good point about institutional oppression and that needs to be addressed within the Islamic religion at large - but I don’t see what institutional oppression on the OTHER end (governments banning the hijab) is JUST as oppressive.
I don’t know why you keep bringing race into this, you seem very fixated on that. I think that’s not a coincidence to be honest…
BigFreakingZombie@reddit
This is not institutional "oppression on the other end" . This is the government taking action to eliminate an oppressive,misogynistic measure forced on women and girls by religious institutions and the mostly older men that follow them. Would you call it "institutional oppression " if it targeted Christians or another religious group ?
I keep bringing race into this because quite frankly that's what the Left does. While I understand that that's not really the message it ain't hard to come across as basically giving Muslims a license to be misogynistic on account of not being Western or white. This is ridiculous and when misogyny in the West is constantly pointed out (as it should) it comes across as hypocritical and outright stupid.
Safe-Bee6962@reddit
Ah I understand now - you’re fine with regulating women’s bodies. I kind of wasted my time even responding to you then because you are not worth convincing. The LEFT is racist? I agree in many ways the left has a long ways to go in regard to matters of race but we are way ahead of the center or right.
For the record, yes. If we banned head coverings for Christians or Jews, I would call it that. You have no gotchas here, sorry. You are solely coming from a place of racism and discomfort toward the existence of Islam. If you actually were concerned about the women you wouldn’t regulate their bodies like you claim their religion does.
Gain some humanity and maybe talk to a Muslim woman.
BigFreakingZombie@reddit
I am not fine with regulating women's bodies. I am fine with the government preventing their fathers and older brothers (who actually make that decision for them in 99.9999999% of cases especially for younger girls) from doing it though. If the small number of women who have been brainwashed into accepting it or actively chose to subject themselves to an oppressive measure "just because " are caught up in it then for me that's acceptable collateral. Besides if covering themselves is so important there are plenty of countries where it's perfectly legal (indeed not just legal but required often on penalty of death but that's beside the point) .
And yes the left has a problem with race in the exact opposite way the right does. In a knee-jerk reaction everything done by non whites somehow either gets elevated in importance or "culturally relativized" to the point it loses all meaning. Mandatory face coverings "for modesty " are a patriarchal,misogynistic practice period. Couldn't give a shit if it's brown people doing it,whites or freaking aliens. It can and should be banned as we rightfully banned many of our own oppressive practices..
Safe-Bee6962@reddit
So, yes, you are fine with it. You admitted as much in this reply. There isn’t anything more to discuss. Please educate yourself - leaving your echo chamber and confronting your biases is a good thing. I did it - you can, too!
ihavenoidea1001@reddit
Yeah I remember very well how my friend's father calling her a whore at like 12 for not wanting to wear anything covering her hair or face lead to a "free choice".
zyqax_@reddit
What about young schoolgirls wearing them?
circ-u-la-ted@reddit
What about young girls wearing shoes? How do you know it's their choice to wear footwear?
Sandbox_Hero@reddit
Is the concept of religious fanaticism foreign to you? Is it a reason for others to suffer because of them?
Fit_Rice_3485@reddit
Ok so you’re gonna claim that no one wears any of that of their own free will and even if they do it’s null and void because of religion?
Stupidity beyond words
Sandbox_Hero@reddit
So it’s a foreign concept to you then. Since religious fanaticism is not restricted to men only.
Baka.
AlexanderTheIronFist@reddit
LMAO. Even if you had a good point (which you didn't), your argument is automatically obliterated by this.
Sandbox_Hero@reddit
Do you even know what sub is this? What a moron.
FeeRemarkable886@reddit
The state threatening you to only wear approved clothing is better? "take that thing off or else..." - your local government.
BigFreakingZombie@reddit
Yeah I think a fine (or whatever the punishment is) isn't exactly comparable to having acid thrown at your face or being set on fire....
It's amazing how so many folks on the Left are utterly incapable of seeing how the hijab can be oppressive especially when they (correctly) point out even the slightest bit of misogyny by Western conservatives. FYI it's things like this who led to the far right surging across Europe.
TheCitizenXane@reddit
Women couldn’t possible have the agency to ever make choices for themselves. They must always be forced if their choice conflicts with your conceptions of what a woman ought to be.
BigFreakingZombie@reddit
What conceptions ? What are you talking about ? It's fun how Redditors twist themselves into a pretzel to claim that a clearly misogynistic practice is the epitome of free will just because I don't know non-Westerners are incapable of sexism apparently.
Winjin@reddit
North americans and pretending that women in Saudi Arabia are wearing niqabs out of their own free will, name a more iconic duo
Reddit in general seems pretty malinformed about Saudi's brand of "soft power export" by funding ideologically motivated, pretty radical muslim ideologies worldwide.
Probably bc lots of Redditors are from USA - USA is big brother type of ally to Saudis - and the agreement is "don't you fucking dare do that here" I guess
So, SA builds mosques and invites imams for months-long all-inclusive "religious" trips from everywhere except the States. And even footed the bills for these mosques until handing them over to "local authorities for security reasons" in 2020
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20200125-saudi-arabia-to-stop-funding-mosques-in-foreign-countries/
Even the predominantly Muslim countries like Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan started banning burqas and niqabs because it's getting ridiculous, they're infiltrating the communities with the "holier than thou" attitude and start eroding them into submitting into the "white clothes for men, black bags for women" culture basically. Dagestan is worried they're on a path of irreversible erasure of local culture because lots of people are basically losing national pride, traditions, and customs, replacing it with SA-centric, arabic culture, and then also start harassing others that don't follow the same path.
So yeah this isn't because they want to "control women" they are throwing wrenches in the works of those that use this as actual oppression tools
FeeRemarkable886@reddit
"these people force women to wear what they want them to wear and in order to help them we are going to force women to not wear what we don't want them to wear".
Winjin@reddit
You must be very angry at the Iranian women for protesting the Morality Police, then.
Cry me a river.
Cynical_Tripster@reddit
Careful, 'cry me a river' sounds like 'Crimea river' and that's likely to get Russia/Ukraine bots seething lol
TheCitizenXane@reddit
You caught me, I’m secretly a big brother to Saudi Arabia and doing my best to protect them. There family y’know, what else can I do?
Winjin@reddit
And you'd get away with it, if it weren't for us pesky kids!
majoneskongur@reddit
no sheistys in public anymore..I call that a win
OptimisticRealist__@reddit
Wow, look at Kazakhstan being islamophobic /s
I still remember the outrage when France proposed this. Oh well, lets see what the leftist morality police will say now.
Foxtastic_Semmel@reddit
Austria did this a few years ago, short outrage, now everyone has forgotten about it. It is quite strictly enforced too.
Rupperrt@reddit
Maybe, just maybe people have different criteria and expectations from a democracy with heavy focus on egalitarianism compared to an authoritarian regime. Stupid argument.
QuotableMorceau@reddit
France is, above all else, the embodiment of secularism, as a democracy it is classified as a "flawed democracy"
Chemical-Time-9143@reddit
I oppose these bans, regardless of who does it.
kapsama@reddit
The only reason France gets shit on is because they keep talking about civilization and democracy while behaving comically evil both at home and abroad. Drop the fascade and live your best life. No one will call out your hypocrisy then.
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
It's very surprising to me that the UK doesn't have something like this yet. With our government fetishism for AI and CCTV, it seems like the perfect law to push.
Crazy to think that Muslim pressure groups are protecting our rights to privacy.
LUHG_HANI@reddit
Yeh don't need much more than eyes and gait for cameras with any sophistication these days.
QuotableMorceau@reddit
those are expensive, and probably evidence unusable in court.
LUHG_HANI@reddit
Not anymore they aren't that expensive. Dunno about court.
kwonza@reddit
Makes sense for former Soviet republics to make the stand against radical Islam, since they have lots of troubles with it.
Teasturbed@reddit
Good. It's crazy how a functional clothing choice that was developed among people who were protecting themselves from the sun and sandstorms got twisted into whatever this is.
Dogulol@reddit
liberals are ok with their privacy being decimated as long as it hurts muslims more. This is the world we live in. You can no longer cover your face in public but you hate muslim people so much that you are ok with it. As an exmuslim who hates religion quite deeply, the idea that everyone who wears headcoverings is somehow "oppressed" is braindead. Banning them is just another attempt to control womans bodies just like the burqa is quite often. Banning all face coverings, beyond the obvious breach of religious freedom, is a breach of your privacy.
LongConsideration662@reddit
Yes you cannot cover your face in public, that poses a threat to security and how does it hurt muslims? It's actually good for muslim women.
Dogulol@reddit
facial recognition software is a breach of human rights and should be illegal everywhere. All the more proof liberals are just fascists in disguise as they will do everything in their power to enable fascism and authoritarians.
I know its hard for you to imagine but muslim woman arent just little babies who cant help but be oppressed, just waiting to be saved by you, their liberal savior. They are people capable of making their own decisions as adults, including what they decide to wear. Making the choice for every single on them is similarly wrong, racist, and authoritarian. It also doesnt do the thing you claim: "liberate muslim woman", it just leads more oppression and religious conflict, turkey where im from tried this, and look where we ended up.
LongConsideration662@reddit
I have absolutely no desire to save or make choices for indoctrinated, brainwashed people but such people pose a threat to my and my loved ones security. There have been cases of women in niqab and burqas kidnapping kids in my country. Call me a fascist or whatever you want but I am not going to play around with my or my loved ones safety and no don't come at me with "but about this or that", any kind of whataboutism won't work here. Also, last I checked islam is a religion, not a race. You can't be racist against a religion, hope that helps💖
Dogulol@reddit
Does anyone really buy the safety excuse? Do you really think someone that intends to kidnap a kid wouldnt just wear a mask and not obey the law temporarily? Its a lame excuse to discriminate and take rights away from people and its a slippery slope. The same pearlcluthing conservative fearmongering narratives that are centuries old. This is the same lgoic that bans books or videogames bc they are threats to society, that leads to mass goverment survailance such as those seen after 9/11, that ban scarves and bandanas during protests and more. Ofc for you its obviously just an excuse to be islamaphobic, i realyl wonder what "your country" is
LongConsideration662@reddit
You do realize there are countries where any kind of facial coverings, be it ski masks or burqa are prohibited, it's not an excuse when it's the truth and various such cases have actually happened even in USA. Most muslim countries give women no rights, but not allowing niqab and burqa for security concerns is very valid, it's not pearl clutching. Also, phobia is an irrational fear there's nothing irrational about fearing a misogynistic, homophobic, violent death cult.
Dogulol@reddit
There is no evidence to support banning face coverings makes anyone safer. Do you think a criminal who intends to commit a much worse crime will be discouraged bc there is a hard to enforce law on facial coverings? It is meant to curb peoples rights to protest and give the government total control over our lives with facial recognition software.
Islam is no different than any religion, this your fear IS irrational. I mean you live in india you must know hindus arent known for their peaceful coexistance
LongConsideration662@reddit
Are you genuinely serious? Are you okay? Do you need help? If someone steals from you, then how would identify the thief? From the face, right? Do you think you'd be able to identify a person covered from head to toe? You don't even have an ounce of intelligence and critical thinking in your body. All religions are bad but islan takes the cake as being worst in 21st century. Plus, hindus are way more peaceful than muslims, hindus don't cause terror attacks in the country and hindus don't have punishment for being atheist/apostasy laws like muslims do. muslim population has only increased in India over the years whereas hindu population has only decreased in majority muslim countries like pakistan and bangladesh, says a lot about how muslims and muslim countries treat minorities.
ACHEBOMB2002@reddit
Yeah no western goberment is banning veils and headscarves, only hijabs and niqabs. The foundational idea is that arabs are somehow genetically inclined towards fundamentalism and white people towards secularism, if you try to argue for the fact thats its a historic coincidence and theres christians just as awfull to women who have had the same amounts of power as their islamic counterparts for most of history you get acused of defending the islamists
kapsama@reddit
Hijabs are basically headscarves. They don't cover the face.
FeeRemarkable886@reddit
So policies specifically targeting Muslims?
Alter_Kyouma@reddit
The libs were cheering when they thought the pro Palestinians folks would get deported. They'll side with the far-right to own the Muslims every time. I think the left is slowly starting to realize that
DJOMaul@reddit
I agree with well pretty much your whole post, except I pretty much hate all abrahamic religions. They are designed to aid in controlling populations. They have no real value in modern societies, but they just won't die. And if you must worship some sky daddy, why not a classic like Zeus... At least he was open about being a douche.
Leave people tf alone. If you want to dress as a full ninja do it... If you like your face covered who cares? Let people do what they want and live their lives as long as they arnt hurting or impeding others. Everyone at the end of the day just wants clean water to drink, food to eat, and a safe place to sleep. Why is that so damn hard with all the modern marvels we have at our fingertips?! Ffs.
It's all about as intelligent as basing social standing on eye color. Humans are all stupid monkeys flinging excrement, and screeching about the most insignificant crap.
Dogulol@reddit
you think abrahamic religions are a unique kind of evil compared to other religions only bc they dominate the period in which you live in. Trust me greek religion was most likely worse in impact compared to abrahamic religion in a lot of areas. Greek society had a VERY strict hierarchy enforced by the religion and it similarly included a very strict patriarchy (it wasnt matriarchial at all like modern presentation of it would suggest). It was a tool for the strict authority, not much more to then to control the populus.
All religion fundementally serves a similar purpose. But the solution will never be to outlaw stuff and breach individual rights. Im from turkey and we learned that the hard way
DJOMaul@reddit
I'm going delete my comments. I always forget talking Religion and humanities always frustrates me, and I can never clearly explain my ideas on the topic. Thank you again for your insight, and thoughts. I try to appreciate every viewpoint, but struggle with some.
As a side note I hope to visit turkey some day. I'd love to visit Istanbul. Its amazing that there has been a city there for so much of history. I was in Rome in 2024, and one of the places we visited was a 2000 year old celler. Like peering into the cosmos, touching that ancient stone wall really makes me feel... Idk connected to history in a very small way... And reminds me of how little time we've got to be decent to each other. I've got Egypt planned for 2027, but I just want to see everything everywhere so badly.
DJOMaul@reddit
That is very fair, and an excellent point. Thank your for reminding me of the unfortunate facts about historical religions. It's easy to forget how bad things were historically.
I wonder why humans are so drawn to these types of things. Outside of state enforced religions, over and over again people want to believe in somthing greater than controls their life.... I really struggle understanding that.
Onuus@reddit
Stick to your garden lol
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
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