Minivans are coming back
Posted by orhantemerrut@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 213 comments
Looks like there is resurgence on the minivan market as almost all the models from major manufacturers have seen their sales go up by significant margins in the first half of the year except for Chrysler Pacifica.
| Vehicle | % Change Q2 YoY | 2025 YTD Sales |
|---|---|---|
| Toyota Sienna | +74% | 52,762 |
| Honda Odyssey | +28% | 50,033 |
| Kia Carnival | +61% | 33,152 |
| Chrysler Pacifica | -53% | 17,926 |
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g65277687/auto-sales-q2-2025-winners-losers/
coconutpete52@reddit
Been rocking my 2015 Sienna since…. 2015! My wife is done with it but I found out she likes my GTI so she drives that most of the time. I fucking love that Sienna!
mattortz@reddit
we just bought a 2015 sienna limited not even a month ago. and we already drove it from sf to la for a road trip. i loved it the moment i drove off the lot with it. so much room, so easy to drive, everything about it is chef’s kiss.
the weird thing though is that the power lift gate isn’t power if you open it from the back. i won’t ever understand that.
DoogieHowserJD@reddit
~6 mos. ago we bought a 2025 Sienna XSE in ruby flare pearl w/ the black trim. Wifey saw an odyssey at a local dealer and when she said she wanted a minivan, I was sure it was a short phase that would quickly pass. It was not. And I’ve loved that MF’ing van since I first saw it. 35 mpg? Smooth enough ride but not swaying like our Highlander and making wifey nauseous? KIDS CAN OPEN THEIR OWN F’ING SLIDING DOORS THAT WON’T DOOR DING ANYONE IN A TIGHT PARKING SPACE?!?! Lower than our Highlander so easier to load / unload and for the dogs to load? And more room? Absof’inglutely 8 days a week. Could never imagine owning a minivan, and now must have one until the kids are gone. People shitting on vans are missing out.
CharacterJust2664@reddit
No one really shits on minivans anymore. Everyone has shifted to shitting on big pickups and SUVs.
svenska_aeroplan@reddit
The problem with minivans was never their practicality. It's that their purchase is the acceptance of youth ending. Minivans are what millennials' frumpy tired parents gave up their fun cars to drive.
dustygator@reddit
One of my personal hot takes is that the three most underappreciated / disrespected vehicles sold in the US all start with an M:
All three are completely unpretentious and absolutely committed / designed around a singular purpose.
Yes, there is a subset of enthusiasts that rave about the Miata but there's significantly more people that refuse to buy one because of it's image as a "hairdressers car", toy-ish proportions and low power despite it being one of the purest sports car experiences available today.
People trash talk the Mirage for being a cheap shitbox despite there being more of a need for cheap new cars in the US than ever before. The Mirage is incredibly cost efficient to run because the engineers spent a lot of effort to reduce weight and optimize aerodynamics. Compared to a Chevy Aveo or whatever bottom of the barrel Kia that was the cheapest car sold in the 90s, the Mirage is infinitely nicer and more reliable.
Then there's the generation of Americans that have such thin skin that they would rather die to be seen in a minivan. I judge the hell out of anyone that chooses a 3-row emotional support SUV over a minivan. Nothing hauls people and stuff better than a minivan.
grandehombre09@reddit
Well said. As a Sienna and Miata owner I agree.
CaptSlow49@reddit
I swear this will be me in a few years. Already have the Miata.
SeriousMongoose2290@reddit
I had to double check that you weren’t me posting in an alt. I appreciate all of those cars and have enjoyed all three. I used to also like my Geo Metro which led me to liking the Mirage for similar reasons.
jawknee530i@reddit
I had an absolute blast driving my buddies geo metro in our early twenties. It was the shittiest little beater imaginable but I still loved the thing.
SeriousMongoose2290@reddit
Some nostalgia is coloring my memories of it but mine was nearly as fun as my Blackwing lol
Jabbles22@reddit
I actually prefer parking next to minivans compared to SUVs because of the sliding doors.
gimmiedacash@reddit
Vans are comfy as fuck and with the seats out/stored you have a small truck.
beoheed@reddit
We only have one so far (planning for more) but I just moved a bunch of things around for myself and others yesterday. Family trip to the airport, the van will be more comfy. When our kid(s) get older we’re going to do long road trips and I couldn’t think of a better vehicle.
orhantemerrut@reddit (OP)
Great. I'm glad to hear that the negative perception is wearing off. They are way too practical for a family not to at least consider them.
Gilbert0686@reddit
Everyone shits on a minivan till they drive one.
I love ours. For the same reasons as stated above.
I even thought about getting my own instead of another truck. But I need a truck for all the things that I do.
jackerman729196@reddit
lol
JurboVolvo@reddit
NOOOOOO bring back station wagons!
chromejockpsycho@reddit
Think there’s ever gonna be a market for a smaller minivan? I’d love something modern that’s smaller like that old Mazda 5. Something good for city driving.
Drzhivago138@reddit
Not as long as compact CUVs are comparably priced and get good MPG.
seneeb@reddit
Well yeah, they fit 90% of the needs for almost every family. Most people are better suited by a minivan and a small open trailer then they are a pickup. They're more space and fuel efficient than SUVs, and subjectively to my big fat ass more comfortable than anything short of the panther platform.
False_Mushroom_8962@reddit
Seems like the old minivan stigma has transferred to SUVs
TookEverything@reddit
I’m actually looking at a hybrid Sienna to convert into a mini camper setup for long road trips. That climate control overnight plus AWD are very enticing.
tyfe@reddit
What’s the climate control overnight?
TookEverything@reddit
You can keep the AC or heat on overnight and the car will turn on and off automatically to keep the battery charged.
bluehurry75@reddit
Only the AC mode works as you described. The engine runs a lot more when on heating mode.
henchman171@reddit
Air conditiong is inverter style conpresssor that pulls From hybrid battery no need for gas engine for that
Heat can only be generated from gas engine
Sienna can be equipped with 1500W inverter directly tapped into the hybrid battery and you can power your heat that way
Jabbles22@reddit
Electric and hybrid vehicles should all have heat pump AC systems.
to11mtm@reddit
Mav hybrids have a ceramic electric heater, but IDK how well it works on it's own.
Jabbles22@reddit
Resistance electric heat is simple and reliable but quite power hungry. A heat pump is basically the AC system running backwards. You can produce the same amount of heat but with less energy from the batteries.
Eastern_Yam@reddit
Yes, although the devil is in the details. If it's just a bit chilly out (not well below freezing) and the HVAC is set to something reasonable like 20°C/70°F then the engine doesn't have to run super frequently to keep its coolant warm.
TookEverything@reddit
Either one works for my intended purpose.
F1_Geek@reddit
What the fuck that's a crazy ass feature. That is so cool.
TookEverything@reddit
Yea my gf and I use her Model 3 right now for road trip camping and we’ve easily paid off her car with the money we’ve saved by not needing to sleep in hotels, while staying cozy in either -20 or 120 degree weather. We’ve just been limited by range in more rural areas due to lack of chargers, like the Montana-Canada border to Alberta. It’ll be nice to have the same features with more range and a bigger vehicle.
tyfe@reddit
Interesting, haven’t ever tried it, but I’ve idled for hour+ with the engine on.
elmwoodblues@reddit
Our Sienna saw more duty as a camper than a daily, as we had the "luxury" of 2 beaters and short commutes. Yaks on top, bikes on back, some screening and magnets; both side doors and the hatch open.
WYKYK
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
Honda would easily have higher sales right now if they offered the Odyssey with a hybrid powertrain already. I keep thinking they’re waiting until after the Prelude is introduced since that’s the first vehicle with the next gen hybrid system.
Darktrooper007@reddit
NGL, a hybrid(ized) J35 Odyssey would be awesome.
stoner_222@reddit
They are developing large platform 2 stage hybrid system right now. No way that Honda will use the R based LFB 2.0L 4 banger with 2 stage hybrid right now. 204hp 232 torque not enough. Hypothetically they could use the K20C4/6 with 2 stage hybrid. Or, use the J30/35 and 2 stage hybrid.
stoner_222@reddit
They are developing large platform 2 stage hybrid system right now. No way that Honda will use the R based LFB 2.0L 4 banger with 2 stage hybrid right now. 204hp 232 torque not enough. Hypothetically they could use the K20C4/6 with 2 stage hybrid. Or, use the J30/35 and 2 stage hybrid.
CalvinYHobbes@reddit
I went from a New Odyssey to a new Pilot. I really like having all wheel drive and Tech that’s not from 2008. Other than that was better for a family hauler than the Pilot.
ChasedWarrior@reddit
Honda would be higher if they just redesign the Odyssey. This current generation is 7 years old. Only the Pacifica is older.
SHHHeng@reddit
To be honest, Sienna is not much a newer van even though the new model started in 2021 because it's designed with all previous tech and architecture like older hybrid system, older TSS, older infotainment ... If compared to all other Toyotas released at that time, they came with all newer technology and architecture.
testthrowawayzz@reddit
It's on the same TNGA platform as the Highlander/Rav4/Camry/NX/RX, and the hybrid system is the same one as the current Highlander hybrid, which is the 4th generation system
anticipat3@reddit
It still doesn’t even use lithium batteries, they’re nickel metal. It’s very old tech, but they get away with it because nothing else in the segment except the Chrysler (which has been a disaster) is electrified. I was thoroughly unimpressed after driving one back to back with the Odyssey.
When the Odyssey gets updated with the same type of hybrid system that the CRV, Accord, and Civic have it’s going to make the Sienna look like a first gen Prius if they don’t do a total redesign.
testthrowawayzz@reddit
The heart of the system is in the motors/transmission, not the batteries. The system has been fitted with lithium ion batteries in some models, so it really comes down to availability and packaging on which type of battery gets fitted onto the car.
NiMH is also safer and has wider operating temperature ranges. The extra energy density advantage of Li-ion doesn't matter a lot for hybrid applications because the battery is relatively small. Switching over to Li-ion for this system is more of a sidegrade than an upgrade.
The 4th gen system was a significant upgrade compared to the 3rd gen system as it can run on electric only mode at higher speeds (60+ mph) whereas the 3rd gen system can only run on electric only mode below 47 mph. There is no more V6 option for the 4th gen system, which is a disappointment for me.
7148675309@reddit
Minivans always have long life cycles - and when there are only four in the market - and they have the sales figures they - it makes no sense to have short redesign cycles.
henchman171@reddit
Sienna is a Highlander and shares its lifespan with that. Highlander redesigns will come first the Sienna adopts them a year after. I don’t know what Oddessy shares with but its design looks Dated
7148675309@reddit
They may share platforms but they don’t share lifespans.
The current Sienna has been around since 2020 but the previous one was built for 10 years! No version of the Highlander has been around that long.
With the Odyssey - current model came out in 2017. The Pilot came out in 2015 and then the new one in 2022.
WriterUnfair2830@reddit
Odyssey shares with Pilot
dariznelli@reddit
And/or AWD
TheStranding@reddit
I feel that an AWD trail sport odyssey would sell like hot cakes
NCSUGrad2012@reddit
They also need to put a 360 camera on it
Lighthouse_seek@reddit
It's strange too. The type of audience who wants a minivan (large families) likely also want fuel efficient vehicles
RazingsIsNotHomeNow@reddit
That's unlikely to be powerful enough. Honda simply doesn't make a hybrid that can replace their V6 yet.
idownvoteanimalpics@reddit
That v6 is pretty sweet, glad it's sticking around
RazingsIsNotHomeNow@reddit
It's reliable, powerful, and gets good mileage under load. Not much to complain about. Also it's compact. Pretty much an ideal engine.
Jam_Bannock@reddit
I've been confused about the V6 in the Odyssey for awhile now. I read as many comments praising its reliability and power as criticizing it for VCM issues and unreliability.
akmacmac@reddit
The current gen of the engine doesn’t seem to have the same VCM related issues as the prior ones. People on the Odyssey forums will still tell you to install aftermarket VCM muzzlers, but plenty of people are reaching high miles trouble-free without the VCM delete.
Gilbert0686@reddit
Our 2012 is having VCM issues, but we are at 2001xx miles on it.
We are also getting to the point of having other wear items starting to go out on the vehicle too. And trying to decide what’s worth fixing or not. It’s nice not having payments
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
I don’t think we know whether it would or wouldn’t be powerful enough yet. The current system isn’t that far off from the output of the competitors. The Carnival and Sienna both put out around 242 to 245HP combined. The Accord/CR-V Hybrid system puts out 204 HP right now. Even a bump to 230 HP combined I think would be considered sufficient.
Honda did put in their press release that they’re updating the 2.0 engine with regards to the next gen hybrid system that will also see new electric motors as well. So I think you will see a power bump there.
Jam_Bannock@reddit
They could even amortize the development costs by also offering a hybrid Pilot.
DidIMakeAGoof@reddit
Still ludicrously expensive for what you're getting. Sienna's are treated like Ferrari's with allocations and markups.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
It's a Toyota. The dealership gets to bend you over anytime without lube. Because it's a special Toyota.
Unlucky_Reception_30@reddit
I mean, it really is. I had one for a month and that thing got 36 mpg everywhere it went! That's better than what my wife gets in her little Honda Fit.
Darktrooper007@reddit
Some friends and I once rented a hybrid Sienna for a day trip around Martha's Vineyard. It was boring to drive, but comfortable for 6 adults and impressively efficient. At the end of the day, it needed <1 gallon to top off the tank!
Izmetg68@reddit
I owned 2 Siennas back to back agree with the consistency in mileage and comfort, those were great cars for when I was moving around the family.
FiddlerOnThePotato@reddit
Holy shit my Golf won't even do that except on the highway with someone else driving it (my right foot is incapable of making the turbo do turbo sounds). That's honestly killer out of a luxobarge.
dooit@reddit
Which aren't anything to write home about anymore, especially since everything had a turbo on it now.
biggsteve81@reddit
The Sienna does not have a turbo. Just a hybrid NA 4 cylinder powerplant.
dooit@reddit
I'm talking about the brand in general.
biggsteve81@reddit
Camry, Rav4, Corolla (minus the GR), GR86 also don't have turbos.
dooit@reddit
Which are the models they should've turbocharged first.
m4xks@reddit
🎣
longgamma@reddit
And the Odyssey is fwd only lol.
themisfit610@reddit
Any reason to care if you live in an urban area without snow weather?
henchman171@reddit
I live in snow 5 months a year but my Sienna AWD is great on gravel roads or grassy hills or twisty back roads. I drive a lot of rural roads. Not a rally car driver but the AWD gives a little boost when it’s needed most with Sienna
Also Allows to pass other cars on highway at 130 km/hr with more confidence
MajorCocknBalls@reddit
I live in Winnipeg and drove fwd Cars my entire life until I bought a truck. Winter tires matter, AWD doesn't.
ChestOk2429@reddit
my miata does pretty well on gravel roads and twisties too :)
roman_maverik@reddit
Contrary to widespread belief, drivetrain layout has absolutely nothing to do with grip at speed (or passing cars). Or braking power, which you didn’t mention, but also what most people think it helps with.
On a “twisty back roads” AWD cars may actually have a disadvantage due to more weight to control, but this is heavily dependent on torque vectoring software, tire and suspension set up so ymmv.
AWD does basically one thing: increased traction during acceleration on loose substrate. This can help with acceleration in snow or other loose material, and increase 0-60 times due to less wheel hop or spin. But outside of that, it’s basically driver placebo, especially in a non-performance car.
MortimerDongle@reddit
The Sienna accomplishes AWD via an extra electric motor, so it's at least conceivable it could make a difference, but it seems to not have any increase in total output, so I'd guess still no.
derouville@reddit
Even with lots of snow, fwd is fine.
uncleluu@reddit
Still drives great, although the VCM issue needs to be addressed without having to resort to third market fixes.
longgamma@reddit
I mean Honda has a good AWD system in passport and pilot. What's killing them to implement the same thing in the Odyssey? It's even more important in a family focused car.
StokeJar@reddit
They’d have to reengineer the entire car and I don’t think the Passport or Pilot’s AWD system would fit regardless. One of the things that make minivans so spacious is the lack of a drive shaft tunnel down the middle. The Sienna uses an electric motor in the rear to avoid the need for a driveshaft. The Pacifica has a unique system with a three piece split driveshaft so that it can be routed under the car to maintain a low, flat floor.
Aftershok@reddit
Can you explain a bit more how the split driveshaft obviates the need for a driveshaft tunnel? Genuinely interested how they managed to avoid the tunnel by splitting the driveshaft. Seems like either way you’d need a cutout to accommodate it. Sounds like cool engineering.
masterventris@reddit
It bends down and runs lower, than back up again. A normal straight shaft would take a direct line from the gearbox to the rear diff, both of which are above the floor level, requiring a tunnel.
It isn't ridiculously low, so it doesn't hang off the bottom of the car and scrape on everything, but it is enough to cheat a few more inches of cabin space.
varezhka11@reddit
I’m sure the thinking is that their minivan audience will prefer to have as much interior space as possible over an ability to option AWD. And that anyone who would want an AWD will go for a Pilot instead. They may be right, because every time I see my brother’s family Odyssey, it’s filled to brim with random knickknacks.
Meanwhile, Honda’s JDM Freed can drive all wheels, probably because there is an audience for a 170-inch 3-row micro minivan with AWD. And that size 3-row SUV will be nearly impossible.
mustangfan12@reddit
Perhaps its because it isn't selling well enough so they can't apply economics of scale for AWD
MagnetizedMetal@reddit
I was lucky enough to order a Sienna 1 state over at a dealer with zero markups, just msrp. Thankfully I ordered an AWD version and everyone else wanted a fwd since it was in the southeast. I was able to jump many spots and accept one when it came in after just like 4 months.
The thing about Toyota is they slap on add ons at the factory and port that you give zero fucks about and never asked for. That’s not a dealer thing. Toyota will make whatever it wants and put whatever bells and whistles and ships it out. You can either accept it or deny it and get back on the wait list until something comes along that you want. They don’t do custom orders.
Ultimately, it’s been an amazing family vehicle so far and I’m confident I made the right choice instead of a big Suburban or something. I also drove a Pacifica in Orlando recently with the family and it felt like a POS compared to our Sienna.
PrimeIntellect@reddit
Siennas are arguably better vehicles than ferraris lol
Lighthouse_seek@reddit
This is what happens when a product category is still massively desirable with few good alternatives (literally you have to go to Tahoe size to even get to where minivan storage, and those have their own drawbacks) and somehow this product category only has 4 options to choose from.
canikony@reddit
What's really crazy is the Tahoe actually has less cargo room than a Sienna.
ugfish@reddit
Tahoe with 3rd row up holds nothing. You could tow a trailer a lot easier though and store all your crap there.
thetoigo@reddit
The cheap minivan cheat code is a Ford Transit Connect Titanium. Slow compared to all the high end minivans with a rougher ride and not all the fancy features, but nice enough with heated leather seats. They're always easy to get parts for and fixed since it's all work van parts in them.
TimeRemove@reddit
The Transit Connect is discontinued.
Rabo_McDongleberry@reddit
That's what I don't get. We would've totally considered a van but they're so expensive. And I think Sienna is there only one you can get AWD.
Fatigue-Error@reddit
I drove a FWD Odyssey and a FWD Mazda3 in Toronto for a few years, and it was fine. I did make sure to have winter tires on during snow season, which was lat fall through early spring. Tires honestly matter more than AWD in rain and snow.
Rabo_McDongleberry@reddit
Not sure how many mountain passes you have in Toronto. But where I'm at and when I go see family in the winter. I have mountains with mandatory chain controls etc.
Most of the year I don't need AWD. But when I do, it's much better to have AWD then deal with getting extra rims and tires and swapping out for winters.
HuyFongFood@reddit
AWD and FWD have the same contact patches. You aren’t gaining anything with AWD without proper tires and even with AWD they can require chains for them as well.
So please educate yourself before you end up stuck on the side of the road or worse.
velociraptorfarmer@reddit
For most mountainous places I've seen, including Arizona, the way the laws are written you're either required to have AWD/4WD+3PMSF rated tires, or put on chains when chain restrictions go into effect.
Rabo_McDongleberry@reddit
Lol. Bro cut the shit with "educate yourself." I'm not some 15 yo keyboard warrior. I've literally been driving in these conditions for decades. I guess my experience means nothing. I know the caveats and have dealt with different scenarios.
XCCO@reddit
My buddy bought a C5 Corvette off his grandpa so his grandpa could get a C6. I'm not saying anything against what you said, but I thought you may get a kick out of those two driving corvettes in their mountain passes. He always says winter tires are all he needs. Haha
Rabo_McDongleberry@reddit
Yeah that's a bit different. Lol. I've fine that in my M3. We're talking about hauling family here. Haha
leasthoodinthehood@reddit
The Pacifica also comes in AWD.
vuwildcat07@reddit
Feels like thinks have loosened up a bit with Siennas though. I’m seeing more of them being offered unsold on some of the no-markup Toyota groups. In past years, the posts were people looking for Siennas
canikony@reddit
I was in the market for the past several months but eventually decided to hold onto what I have for a bit longer. Especially since the Sienna is due for a "re-engineering" for the 2028MY.
The market does seem to be calming down but there are still a few dealers asking 3-5k OVER MSRP.
THE_GR8_MIKE@reddit
Apostrophes don't make words plural.
armchairracer@reddit
At least looking at a couple of my local dealerships I can get a Sienna for about the same as a similarly species Highlander, and both vehicles are sitting on lots today at MSRP.
Most-Car-4056@reddit
Side comment, how many miles on your 03 vibe?
armchairracer@reddit
It's at around 167k, so pretty low miles for its age, but I plan on driving it until the heat death of the universe.
Most-Car-4056@reddit
Heat death of Earth might come before then! I had a 2004, for one month shy of 19 years, with 254,000 miles. Nothing, and I mean nothing wrong with it. No fluid leaks of any kind. Unfortunately situation stopped its heart beat. Miss it everyday! That car was SOLID! I would still be daily driving it today.
Mnm0602@reddit
They’re both in the same price range (because they do similar things and serve a similar customer with different preferences) but generally the Highlander Hybrid is the one you should compare with (since all Siennas are hybrids) and it is a bit more expensive on lower trims and cheaper on higher, at least near me. To be I think this is because 3 Row SUVs are saturated with options in normal and luxury brands, in addition to the true large SUV 3 rows. Even the Highlander Hybrid is basically being eaten up by Toyota with the Grand Highlander Hybrid (across all levels but especially the top).
SkPensFan@reddit
Hard disagree. They are similar price to a comparable SUV. And they have more room, drive better and get better fuel economy.
However, I live in a place in Canada where Toyota never has dealer markups. Not a thing here.
ChasedWarrior@reddit
Agreed. Chrysler reintroduced the Voyager for public purchases, and even though it has more standard equipment the base price is 40K. So much for a budget minivan.
beoheed@reddit
That’s part of my decision to get an Odyssey, I’ve really enjoyed it so far
verdegrrl@reddit
It all comes back to where allocation is going. If there is a more profitable market, then great.
But if production resources are going to other models entirely, it creates an artificial market that makes everyone wary.
olmoscd@reddit
A base sienna is very reasonably priced for what you get imo. Just look at the rest of the market.
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
It is what drove me into a used Atlas. Minivans are too expensive for their trim levels, but the market is what drives the prices, right?
theomegafact@reddit
Yes! Imo they are far more practical for the average person than an SUV. If you got kids then there is a lot less risk of them door dinging someone, and you can haul a fuck ton of stuff without needing an absolute cruise ship of a car.
Drzhivago138@reddit
I mean, minivans are already 80" wide and 200"+ long.
theomegafact@reddit
I should have chosen different wording to be clearer, my bad. Shorter ride and not as heavy.
Drzhivago138@reddit
Compared to a full-size BOF SUV, minivans are definitely lower riding and not as heavy. Compared to the largest 3-row CUVs, the difference is basically a wash.
MortimerDongle@reddit
Right. Minivans are bigger than most three row crossovers. They make great use of that size, but they're still huge.
Flybuys@reddit
Renault should put out that F1 inspired van my son has a hot wheels of, my wife would love it.
yorkman2@reddit
ew
stoner_222@reddit
Still waiting for the sienna to come with the 362hp hybrid max powertrain. I wanna haul ass, not sip gas. Especially down highway 5 on the CA valley.
TFiPW@reddit
> 'minivans are back'
> Chrysler's only car, a minivan: -53%
mb300e87@reddit
Currently leasing a 2023 odyssey sport in that neat blue grey color. I get compliments about it often. Almost always it’s someone saying they envy that I have the car but can’t get past their insecurities to buy one themselves.
Razathorn@reddit
I LOVE my carnival and I don't care what ya'll think. Great power. Drives way better than you would expect. Great features. Feels very modern, smooth. We will always have a van, and right now, this is the clear winner. OBV got the 100k warranty ;)
rolobrowntowntony@reddit
They look the best out of the 4… I’ve been floating the idea here and there to my wife. But owning a kia scares me lol
Sesspool@reddit
Suvs are basically mini vans
Big-Energy-3363@reddit
Because the Pacifica is a shit box!
Smart-As-Duck@reddit
My mom bought the updated Kia Carnival with the V6. Never mind that my youngest sibling is almost 30.
It’s a great vehicle and I understand why people get minivans now. And it looks like an SUV too.
Sriracha01@reddit
Sliding doors way more sense for a size of a SUV/mini van than regular doors. Especially if the car is a 7 seater.
Sriracha01@reddit
Madza, bring back the Madza 5. The people yearn for a smaller mini van.
the-de-anpiller@reddit
Good news. Hopefully we see the same with wagons. There's no entry-level wagons in the states except for the Subaru which is still too much of a CUV.
captainnowalk@reddit
I dunno, I argue the Chevy Trax and its Buick counterpart are basically lifted wagons too. Look at those proportions, it always makes me think of a wagon!
Vesploogie@reddit
Not gonna happen, the late 2010’s US wagon resurgence died a quick death. The only people who bought one did it for the Reddit flair.
DoktorStrangelove@reddit
No we did it cause they rule
Vesploogie@reddit
I know, I drive one of those darling wagons. It’s great but I get why the average person would rather drive an SUV or crossover.
7148675309@reddit
I just bought a 2025 Outback. It isn’t a CUV - it is a lifted wagon. We also have a Mercedes GLE. They are about the same length - and the GLE is about four inches taller - but the doors are a lot lower. So when you think about the proportions - you consider the length and the height of the doors, not the height of the car itself
The 2026 - now no longer tied to the proportions of the Legacy sedan - is more of an SUV.
peakdecline@reddit
The 2026 Outback has a bit taller roof line. Otherwise it's basically the same dimensions and seating position. It's very much still a lifted wagon.
Linton_M@reddit
Chrysler needs to hear this:
Hellcat. Pacifica.
akmacmac@reddit
There was just a post about them bringing back the SRT division, so we can only hope
Linton_M@reddit
I just saw the news a few hours ago, so happy to hear that. I just wish I had brand new car money, I’d buy one the moment they hit the lots.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
So, when luxury minivan becomes available in America ? Alphard/LM, GL8, and EM90 are nicer than these America minivan. Real rich buyers would more like it.
dementedkirby@reddit
Sadly, I don’t think they will - but at least the very first Alphards are finally going to be eligible to import to the States under our stupid 25-year rule soon, and I think I’ll get one.
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
Never. Luxury minivans don't haul 7-8 people. Usually they are set up to haul 4 or 5 and are meant to be chauffer driven. If you're looking for a chauffer vehicle and have money, get a Rolls or an S-Class/7 Series. If you're looking for a family hauler, 4-5 seats is a non-starter.
I don't get reddit's hardon for luxury minivans. Literally the only use case for a minivan is you have to haul a bunch of kids around. Kids destroy everything, so why would you pay big bucks for a premium interior they will trash?
Minivans are already ridiculously expensive. If anything we need them to go downmarket. A minivan that puts a premium experience up front and makes a back that can basically be hosed out and bomb proof would clean up.
Disrupt_money@reddit
Threewisemonkey@reddit
Alphard as a common uber in Japan is so epic - the seats are like a private jet, even on the lower trim, tons of space to basically walk in, and the boxy shape maximizes room.
Next time we go, I’m getting my international license and an Alphard and driving everywhere
today I saw a Metris in LA converted to “Maybach” spec with two tone paint, monoblocks, custom front end, and Maybach badges. I’m sure it had a crazy interior to match.
IJustSignedUpToUp@reddit
Mini badge in the preview image gave me hope that BMW finally jumped the shark with their red headed stepchild.
PlatinumGoon@reddit
The Carnival is the best looking minivan ever built imo. I wonder how their reliability has been
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
Typical Kia, i.e., bad.
Wildcard36qs@reddit
I just bought a 2021 Honda Odyssey Touring which has practically the same everything through the current model year. Prior to that I had been researching for a very long time in what minivan to replace my Mazda5 with.
The Sienna is just stupid money, but will last forever (I also wanted a V6 with some power) also the second row is not easily removable.
The Chrysler will have issues (I don't trust the Pentastar in it as there is a fairly large thread on the forum of head gasket issues), but can be had for the best price and has a lot of good features and tech. I've rented it several times and it always does a good job.
The Kia was my second choice and I really like that Tuscan interior and the tech it has is nice, but I just happened to find the right Odyssey at the right price. Also Kia really hit the Carnival with the ugly stick for 2025 with the stupid looking front end and those hideous wheels. Also it's a relatively new Kia so long-term reliability is unknown.
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
The reliability stats coming out on the Carnival suggest the Pacifica will have competition for least reliable vehicle in class. And it being a Kia product, you can be confident the dealers and corporate will do everything possible to avoid shouldering the cost or fixing things in anything but the cheapest arguably legal way possible.
NW_Forester@reddit
They are more comfortable than trucks and depending on the type of cargo can be just as good at hauling.
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
This is a pretty insane take. Yeah if you're hauling a bunch of boxes around that weigh nothing they are as good as a truck, but anything you would use the word "hauling" to describe is not going to be viable in a minivan. You're not going to get 2000lb of rock in the back of a minivan and you're not going to (safely) tow a boat. Minivans are unibody vehicles and the payload numbers are closer to cars than trucks.
Minivans are people movers, but less than 5% of non-commercial trips have more than 4 people in the vehicle and if you're not carrying more than 4 people, literally the only benefit benefit to having a minivan over a two or three row CUV is your kids can't slam swing doors into other cars.
If you have need to transport 4 or more people frequently (e.g., you have 3+ kids or you handle carpooling for a kid's team/group) a minivan makes a lot of sense, otherwise they don't.
The number of families with 3+ kids is small and shrinking. Most couples these days don't even have two kids. Americans love to overbuy their vehicles for the once or twice a year scenario where you need to haul a lot of heavy stuff or transport a big group, but we'd all be better off just buying a smaller two-row vehicle and renting a van or large SUV/Truck for those rare occasions needing a bigger vehicle.
gooneryoda@reddit
I’ve done more truck things with my Odyssey than most full size truck owners. Had one for 13 years. Kind of miss it.
Haglev3@reddit
Seriously… just give us station wagons again
danperson1@reddit
Millennials are finally having kids
Drzhivago138@reddit
Most that I know, even those younger than me, have at least 1 if not 2 by now. And of them, only one family has a minivan. /anecdote
A_Thrilled_Peach@reddit
Same in my crew of friends. I think it’s because cars are so damn expensive we just make do with what we have. I would love a minivan but I’m not dropping $50k+ on a car and the used ones aren’t much cheaper.
ChuckWorx@reddit
Also anecdotal, but none of my friends have a minivan or would ever buy one. Only Reddit thinks minivans are "cool".
canikony@reddit
Cool is subjective. Objectively, they are one of the most practical vehicles on the market.
ChuckWorx@reddit
So is a 4 door truck. Objectively. I wonder why they sell so many.
Bluecolt@reddit
Another anecdote, but I'm on the older end of Millennial and have kids, and most of our peers have kids too. It kinda just happens that parents tend to be around other parents a lot, via school, youth sports, the neighborhoods we live in, etc. I can only think of two people that have/had a minivan.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
People prefer crossovers and SUVs and you can do everything you need to do with those instead.
canikony@reddit
Yes, but a minivan will do it more efficiently while carrying more cargo.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
are the two kids old enough to be paying sports yet
ls7eveen@reddit
Why does that matter?
Drzhivago138@reddit
The one family that does have a minivan are sporty types, but so are the families who still use CUVs, SUVs, and/or pickups. And that family with the minivan also has a pickup.
Drzhivago138@reddit
Most millennials are over 35 now.
thetoigo@reddit
The cheap minivan cheat code is a Transit Connect Titanium. Slow compared to all the high end minivans with a rougher ride and not all the fancy features, but nice enough with heated leather seats. They're always easy to get parts for and fixed since it's all work van parts in them.
Intrepid_Elk_4351@reddit
Minivans offer so much utility. Fold seats down and can fit full sheets of plywood, etc.
What I want is a performance minivan. Something badass like an RS6 but in minivan form.
pele4096@reddit
They need to make minivans mini again.
I'd like Mazda to bring back the Mazda 5... (specifically with the Speed6 drivetrain.)
I cross shopped the Toyota Sienna when my 2003 Mazda MPV minivan was totalled out in 2018. The Sienna drove like the automotive equivalent of Valium. Too soft and cushy, unresponsive suspension and steering.
Ended up in a 2018 Mazda CX-9.
Seyosi@reddit
Why are they minivans if there’s nothing mini about them?
1988rx7T2@reddit
Compare an 80s Plymouth Voyager to a full size cargo van of the time and you will understand. Front wheel drive, not as long, lower loading height, siding door. The short wheel base minivans of the 80s aren’t offered in the US anymore but they still exist in Europe.
miscfiles@reddit
I have a Citroën Grand C4 Spacetourer (previously known as Picasso). It's 4.6m (181in) long and has a couple of fold out seats in the boot (trunk) making seven in total. It's an amazing family car and every seat except the drivers folds down, making it a very handy load lugger. It's not a proper minivan because it doesn't have sliding doors, but it's pretty insane how much space there is inside considering the relatively small exterior.
1988rx7T2@reddit
Yeah the VW Touran that my in-laws have is like that. It’s sort of a smaller minivan without a sliding door.
quantum-quetzal@reddit
Even modern minivans are still smaller than full-size vans. All of the minivans in the US are about 204" long, 79" wide, and 69" tall.
For comparison, the smallest Ford Transit (regular length, low roof) is 212" long, 81" wide, and 82" tall. Assuming that it's a rectangular prism (which isn't too inaccurate for vans), that's roughly a 25% increase in volume.
You can get the Transit up to 264" long, 84" wide, and 110" tall, which is about 120% more volume than a minivan.
Lighthouse_seek@reddit
They're mini version of the full sized white vans
Many_Hotel866@reddit
Good, now bring back wagons
NewMachine4198@reddit
Sure, the older Odesseys, Siennas, and Grand Caravans/Caravans may get some stereotypical flak, but above all, minivans are PASSENGER TRANSPORTERS. It’s great that they’re making a comeback, just so long as they have good visibility of those outside of a car.
jamesgilboy@reddit
The Pacifica rivals have gained more volume than Chrysler lost, too. What an utter fuckup turning the Pacifica into a hideous crossover when the segment was on the verge of turning around like this.
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
A lot of this increase is just OEMs finally boosting manufacturing. There were wait lists years long for some minivans because supply was so constrained post Covid.
hredditor@reddit
We rented a Pacifica for a vacation and it was amazing! I hated on minivans for so long having dealt with them in the 90s, but I have changed my tune. I’d highly recommend one to anyone wanting some space and a great highway cruiser!
ratcnc@reddit
A true car person has always loved the minivan. The age group that that avoided the minivan because of stereotypes has aged out and a new generation has rediscovered how smartly designed the minivan is.
YaBoiSaltyTruck@reddit
Certified Chrysler moment.
FlourCity@reddit
All they need to do is fix the reliability. It's crazy it's been the least reliable offering (especially the hybrid) the whole time it has been available. It's a great van, just unreliable.
StepsOnLEGO@reddit
I always like the pacifica and it's dodge sibling when getting them as rentals. The V6 has some serious grunt and they are more comfortable than the siennas I've rented. Interior was a little cheaper feeling but it was closer than toyota would want you to believe.
akmacmac@reddit
Even crazier considering Chrysler basically invented the minivan
MikeofLA@reddit
Good! They’re so much better than an SUV in almost every aspect.
jawknee530i@reddit
Good. They're just better vehicles than SUVs for practically every use case.
daxelkurtz@reddit
This is just increased production, right?
Like, I'm pretty sure the only reason the Pacifica has been selling is becuase it's been the only one available on lots. Now that more Not Stellantis minivans are available, their sales are crashing.
thefanciestcat@reddit
Minivans are a perfect solution for lots of people, but IIRC those numbers combined make up less than one year of Bronco sales.
These numbers show improvement but they're still fighting for pieces of a relatively small pie.
-jxw-@reddit
GR Sienna when!?
ghostboo77@reddit
I owned a minivan for a while. It’s convenient when the kids are very little, but by the time my youngest was 2, we moved on and didn’t regret it.
I bought an off lease, 3 year old Dodge caravan for $15k. Spending $40k+ on a minivan is foolish imo
Vdub_Life@reddit
Minivans are the best we love ours
beall49@reddit
I’m in a rental Sienna for a week right now. Surprised with the lack of features. Can’t figure out how to open or close any of the automatic doors from the drivers seat.
henchman171@reddit
The buttons to close and open the doors are above the rear view mirror
beall49@reddit
lol just googled it after typing that, I'm so stupid
varezhka11@reddit
I’m sure the thinking is that their minivan audience will prefer to have as much interior space as possible over an ability to option AWD. And that anyone who would want an AWD will go for a Pilot instead. They may be right, because every time I see my brother’s family Odyssey, it’s filled to brim with random knickknacks.
Meanwhile, Honda’s JDM Freed can drive all wheels, probably because there is an audience for a 170-inch 3-row micro minivan with AWD. And that size 3-row SUV will be nearly impossible.
whiteajah365@reddit
It’s wild, I bought a Sienna in 2021 for 41k, I just sold it back to Toyota with 22k miles for 39k.
Drzhivago138@reddit
Oh boy, just what the r/cars CJ wants to hear!!
What's their % market share again?
TenderfootGungi@reddit
My wife cannot imagine life without one.
Trollygag@reddit
Siennas had a big rise in sales because Toyota has been struggling with production and has been since their introduction. They are just getting through issues.
The rest are just cannibalizing Chrysler.
goosereddit@reddit
I love minivans. I hope this convinces more makers to make them.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
Unfortunately your comment has been removed because it contains a link to a delisted domain. This is almost always due to spam from the domain.
Please use a different source.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
AutoModerator@reddit
No rage bait, memes, trolling, copypasta, or low-quality joke posts or comments.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
tri_9@reddit
I absolutely love minivans. Whenever I travel I always rent a minivan. It’s just way too comfortable and it makes me happy knowing my passengers are lounging, not cramped.