This, in fact, is not what people meant, when they are talking about coffee bombs.
How are actions like these not considered terror bombing? Thing like these and "settler" violence happen on a regular basis, then they get all up in arms when things like Oct 7th happens.
They aren’t considered terrorist actions because Israel and their supporters will forever claim Hamas and just that is enough to get people to move on, MSM won’t even cover these anymore.
Illegal and just another example of the indiscriminate warfare utilized against the people of Gaza. It's evil and yet people will still come into reddit and claim there is no genocide or that it's bad eggs.
It wasn't indiscriminate. They were targeting a specific group of HAMAS fighters. Hasham Mansour was killed in that attack. the Hamas terrorists were gathering together in the cafe to be paid by their commande
Sure! What a coincidence that Hamas is gathering any time Israel murders innocents, oops I mean child aged terrorists or whatever excuse is being used this week
Israel is not apart of the Additional Protocol 1 (AD1) of the Geneva Conventions, so there aren’t laws in Israel in that regard. This is intentional as this means Israeli-Palestinian war can be regarded as illegal and illegitimate (not a legal inter-state war) as Hamas is an illegal and not internationally recognized government, so the rules of war don’t apply there (legally to Israel). Which Hamas does not make the principle of distinction, nor is a signatory to the geneva conventions so take that how you will. Of course this does not exclude the crime of Genocide which is a whole other thing, but in specific regards to indiscriminate bombing in this case, its not something in Israel.
I never thought I’d see the day where I’d say this as a previous ally to Israel, but if Israel didn’t exist I’d be happy. I’ll forever vote as much as I can to help in that cause.
It's not a blanket yes or no answer. You need to specify what kind of attack you are talking about. Oct 7th was 90% a war crime. Targeting and killing IDF soldiers was valid. But the kidnappings, rapings and killings of civilians were not.
When you admit that you have surveillance, which means you know exactly who is there, which means you know that there are scores of innocent civilians in an area, and yet you still drop a weapon of such indiscriminate destructive capability on that area, you are a fucking terrorist organization. This is willful and intentional murder of civilians with complete disregard for humanity and a level of evil that is unfathomable.
Fuck the IDF and fuck Israel
I haven’t seen you condemning the launching of a 500lb bomb on a cafe which killed a journalist, their family members, as well as other women and children.
If you possess some basic English skills you’d understand that “death to the ccp” does not mean death to any and every individual affiliated with the party, but to the institution itself. Therefore I do not see the slightest issue in wishing for the complete annihilation of the criminal entity which committed the very atrocity I just mentioned, the one you’ve failed to condemn
It's funny how with the Iran strikes Israel propaganda was all how precise they were, photos of individual apartments blown up and they only killed generals and very specific strikes with their intel and combat ability
The same army is now claiming no can't do that in Gaza no way...
Like you can't have it both ways. (Hurd it bowlth ways b)
also: they were apparently able to get enough intel out of their sworn enemies a few thousand miles away to such a level that they could launch dozens of precision decapitation strikes on their top brass in a single day...
...but they've been 'unable' to locate a couple dozen hostages in an area the size of Manhattan that they control every way into and out of and have 24/7 omnipresent surveillance of?
nothing the Israelis say can be believed. I'd probably go further an say anything they do say should be treated with 100% disbelief until they provide entirely traceable, auditable evidence of their claims.
“There are no innocents in Gaza.” Israel and the Zionist faithful consider every Palestinian is a valid target. Women, children, babies - all must die in the service of greater Israel and the Jewish right to self-determination by exterminating the natives in Palestine.
Once all Palestinians in Gaza are dead the West Bank will be next, then Lebanon will be “freed” from the, um, Lebanese invaders.
Is there anything that Israel could do to elicit more than the slightest, weakest, most pussy footed condemnation from the G 7 nations? Just curious like what line is the red one? Hospitals? No. Systemic rape in prisons? No. Child murder? No. Weaponized starvation? No.
Crazy stuff.
There was no reason to bomb Iran either… they weren’t close to making a nuclear weapon, and history has shown they respect nuclear agreements. But Israel and the US went ahead and did it, and they faced zero consequences. The whole time there were reports flying around that tactical nukes were an option for Fordow. There was a report saying the nuke options were disregarded, by the guardian I think, but then a later report from the White House denied that report, and said nukes were absolutely on the table.
It may have just been posturing, but nuking a country would be in line with this new administration’s disregard for diplomacy or soft power and pivoting towards hard power policy. It would instil fear in every other non-allied country and send a message that not falling into line will mean bad consequences. Idk if the global community would turn the other cheek to avoid economic pains, or if they would condemn it in actions and not just words.
Not zero consequences. Sure, Israel says Iran did no damage, but Israel has a nasty habit of lying. If you look at all what was hit, it did hurt.
There's a reason the whole thing ended with an ineffective bombing run for the cameras and proclaiming victory. Israel (and the US) don't stop unless something makes them stop
Well I meant on the international stage. Israel's bombardment and assassinations in Iran were followed by denunciations *of* Iran. I was surprised that Iran's missiles got through naval, land and aircraft missile defenses, from Iraq, the red sea, Jordan, the mediterranean sea, Qatar and Israel. Even EU jets were helping shoot down Iranian missiles IIRC. They did a surprising amount of damage from what's available to the public.
They were. Only the 5 eyes, the EU, and India endorsed the crimes, as usual, marking the end of an era where those could pretend to have any moral authority.
We're witnessing the downfall of the old world order. China is winning by not playing, while everyone else destroys their own soft power for absolutely no reason.
Public uproar? they just call you antisemitic if you speak out. They have zero intention of responding to public uproar appropriately.
Israel has nearly every western government on side, apparently.
I should have been clearer. IMO if your nation is giving material or political support towards this genocide, the reaction should be to eventually bring your country to a standstill if your politicians continue to not listen to you. So massive general indefinite strikes, civil disobedience, taking away companies’ ability to function in your country if they support a genocidal state, stop ships from leaving or docking at ports if they’re connected, destroying private property of companies, disrupt genocidal media coverage, ground air traffic somehow - idk. I’m hoping if a nuke gets launched this is the response, but considering we are witnessing a genocide, for me this was warranted ages ago. That’s what I mean by the unforeseen part.
The moment the west normalises Israel using nukes Putin will go all hands off and start using nuclear armed oreshniks and turn Kyiv and liyiv into hell on earth
I'd say we've normalised it. I know it's the worst kept secret ever but still, the amount of reporting of "Iran must not be allowed to have a nuclear weapon" these past few weeks despite the giant fucking elephant in the room suggests we've completely normalised being a rogue, nuclear state... so long as you're Israel.
There are people on the worldnews thread of this exact same news article talking anout how this isn’t even that big of a bomb and the radius isn’t that big.
There are dudes wondering how a cafe could exist in Gaza, and therefore must be hamas because they stole aid or something.
They’re even in here still talking about Hamas.
I doubt they're people at this point. It was trivial to automate hasbara 2-3 years ago, it's even easier now.
Look at most anglophone political subreddits; they've all been captured by right wing moderator teams who spend most of their time banning people for any criticism of Israel.
I've been banned from both r/unitedkingdom and r/ukpolitics since October 7th for 'antisemitism' because I agree with Amnesty International.
You people swear Hamas hides under hospitals but then will say they are using beach side cafes for high level meetings? Sounds dumb. This cafe is a known journalist hub. They were trying to kill Bayan Al Sultan
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If Israel attacks a nation favourable to the West there would be condemnation.
As long as Israel continues to attack people who say 'death to the West' and are obviously never going to be allies, the West will not care what they do because having an actual ally in the Middle East is more important in the realm of Real Politik than condemning a war against what amounts to enemies.
Dismantling the whole post WW2 order so as not to accept Trump and Israel seems stupid. Eventually a real war will break out between super powers and this will have set the precedent for horror.
It really won’t have. This conflict is nothing in the grand scheme of things. During World War II cities were targeted and destroyed repeatedly by all sides. Fire bombings in Japan, fire bombings of Dresden, the blitz. The estimated fatalities in that war were 70 to 85 million. The conflict between Israel and Palestine hasn’t even broken 100,000 yet which, for context, is how many people were killed during the fire bombing of Tokyo in the span of like a week.
According to a Harvard linked study from last week there are 377k missing in Gaza. So add that to whatever number you weren't saying is enough death. There is no press in Gaza. 90% of it is rubble. Imagine Atlanta gone, without any excavators to dig up the bodies, no civil registry to record the dead. You are comparing a superpower and it's proxy leveling a city to the entirety of WW2 when we know explosive wise Israel has dropped the equivalent of multiple atomic bombs on Gaza.
As somebody already pointed out that study was flawed. According to the Palestinian ministry of health, the people who are actually there, the number is 11,000.
[https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240711-more-than-186-000-dead-in-gaza-how-credible-are-the-estimates-published-on-the-lancet](https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240711-more-than-186-000-dead-in-gaza-how-credible-are-the-estimates-published-on-the-lancet)
Then use this one
That article was genuinely ridiculous and has already been taken down. What happened is in a Harvard article there were two maps which showed the 3 largest population centres of gaza. When you count the number of people in those areas it adds up to about 1.8 million people, which is where the 377k number was obtained from. The issue is, people live in the other parts of gaza.
This Lancet study said 185k. The truth is noone knows and you cant say definitively and neither can I. But its way over 55k.
[https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext)
So even if this Israeli study that was linked to Harvard isn't accurate the Lancet is not a BS publication. Almost 200,000 people dead is 10 percent of the total population of Gaza. We can debate numbers all day but we wont know until the rubble is cleared.
Firstly, i never said the Israeli study linked to Harvard wasn't accurate, I said that's not what the study said. Claiming it is is deliberate spreading of misinformation. The study wasn't even focused at deaths. A "news" organisation looked at 2 population maps, concluded that it didn't add up to 2.2 million(because again, it looked at the population in some areas of gaza, not all of gaza) and went, oh so 330k people are missing or dead. Furthermore you're right the Lancet isn't BS but that specific article did a lot of damage to their reputation. Firstly it relies on two things, it uses previous wars to get it's claim of 3-15 indirect deaths for a direct death, and secondly it claims that every death reported by hamas is a direct death. Firstly we know their death toll is just the death toll of gaza since October 7th, with a lot of errors, like when they revised the death toll and it came out that 70% of the deaths were men of fighting age, not women and children. This means that every death they count includes indirect deaths already. Secondly the claim that 3-15 indirect deaths applies to previous wars, in more rural locations. Gaza is the opposite. To claim that this is applicable, and further to claim it's a conservative guess is hilarious because they've used a document that isn't even endorsed by the UCHR who conducted research into direct vs indirect deaths, to get their 3-15 figure.
At least we can agree that we won't know until the rubble clears so until then maybe don't spread nonsense about incredibly false death tolls.
There is international law for a reason. Trying to give Israel a pass for mass murdering children while being outraged that Hamas mass murders civilians is the height of hypocrisy.
I don't even get what you're trying to say. And you seem to mistake my practical view of the reason as support.
The ME has always been in conflict. This isn't setting precedent for anything, nothing more than the extreme horrors of WW2 haven't already done.
I disagree on any war between super powers. That basically means China and USA, and I'd any war actually breaks out it means nukes are coming and the world is doomed anyways.
They're too economically linked to ever want total war. There's no point to it. The most China wants is Taiwan (and let's be real, once chip manufacturing is up and running on par in the states, Taiwan's days are numbered) and USA just wants to export culture.
The ME is barely a footnote for either of them, apart from ensuring oil keeps flowing.
There was hardly any conflict in the Middle East for hundreds of years before Israel showed up. Even the World Wars were relatively quiet there.
This myth that Israel is continually killing people because that’s “just what it’s like in the Middle East” needs to end.
That’s not actually true. Europe launched multiple crusades trying to conquer the Middle East. They spent 600 years trying to “tame the savages” that taught them mathematics and why personal hygiene is important.
Israel has attacked citizens of many western countries and killed many of them too.
They attacked *diplomats* of many European countries... and nothing came of it.
> Hamas to be eradicated and for them to accept israel exists and work towards a two state solution where they put down their arms?
How about eradicating the Israel's extreme right, and for them to accept Palestine exists and work towards a two state solution where they put down their arms?
>Agree to that, minus putting their arms down. They were the ones attacked
No. They unilaterally seized territory in 1947, and that conflict is still unresolved.
If Palestine can make do with their arms lied down, then so can Israel.
the arabs had been murdering jews for decades. And they started the civil war. Israel has not started a single war. But it sure as shit will finish them.
> the arabs had been murdering jews for decades.
The first president of Israel, Menachim Begin, was well known for his terrorism in the Palestine area.
>And they started the civil war. Israel has not started a single war.
I just told you that Israel unilaterally seized territory in 1947, why do you think that doesn't count as starting a war?
Bwahaha. An American using a UN resolution as an argument, when their country has blocked virtually ever resolution even remotely condemning Israel.
God, the hypocrisy is just staggering.
No I just think Israel should be able to defend itself and should exist. And I think the IDF should use the recent attack on them by settlers to crack the fuck down on west bank settlements.
Its a complex problem without good guys or many innocents. realistically only those under 14 or 15 and those that oppose hamas and needless civilian casualties are innocent in this. Ironically, there are less innocents in westbank than in gaza considering they still support hamas and its armed attacks.
So you think they deserve to be collectively punished? Why don't you just accept that you want to see Palestinian civilians murdered? Stop acting like you don't believe the innocent men, women and children in Gaza deserved what has happened in the past 21 months.
Many of them arnt innocent. I feel sorry for the children but hamas have 60% support prior to they started a war and there are video of mutilated jews being paraded through the street to cheers and further abuse.
You call that innocent.
Christ. The justification you use for the mass murder of Palestinians is horrific. Do you think the Israelis posting videos mocking the suffering of the Palestinians are innocent by that logic? If the teenagers laughing at dead children innocent?
Are you high? Why do you think I support that? Because I don't want Israel to genocide Palestinians? You literally are using repackaged Nazi propaganda.
I don't support what Israel is doing. I don't think Hamas are the problem. And I know exactly what you're getting at. If I don't believe Khamas are the most evil Arabs ever, I want to kill all Jews.
I understand why the language could be construed as that. Do you believe the rhetoric from the Israeli government since October 2023 has been openly genocidal?
violent, definitely embracing war crimes, but no. Not genocidal. If it were genocide they would not have worked as hard as they did to reduce casualties. They would have actually fucking just carpet bombed gaza.
I dont think israels government gives a single shit about dead palestinian children. That doesnt make them genocidal. It just means they value jewish lives over palestinians. The problem is you people seem to think there are "good guys". There arn't theres openly genocidal terrorists that would murder every jew that lives and celebrated 10-7 and then there are cold calculating victims of ethnic cleansing and genocide that dont care if they get close to or do a little bit themselves to protect themselves from enemies that surround them and have attacked them multiple times.
So you have no intention of arguing in good faith. Linki whatever the fuck you want. I can still engage with the facts presented and disprove them. you cant because hamas and their charter is openly genocidal.
"Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity."
>Ironically, there are less innocents in westbank than in gaza considering they still support hamas and its armed attacks.
By the same reasoning, there are no innocents in Israel since they all support the IDF actions and generations-long occupation of Palestine territories.
> Supporting defense against attack makes you guilty?
"Defense"? What is Israel afraid of if they cut off water and food? Food fights and water pistols?
>Hamas to be eradicated
[Netanyahu said finally showing signs he is ready to end Gaza war;
IDF chief said to tell ministers, ‘Hamas is dead’](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-said-to-finally-be-showing-signs-he-is-ready-to-end-the-war-in-gaza/)
Get your facts in order, Zionist.
>Hundreds of thousands have already died.
I would love evidence of this. Hamas reported 56k last week and they dont distinguish fighters killed from civilians.
Another lie. That number is the Gazan health ministry’s count of people killed directly by Israeli munitions and identified. There are thousands upon thousands uncounted in the rubble and thousands upon thousands who have died of starvation, disease, etc. imposed on them by the siege.
https://dataverse.harvard.edu/dataset.xhtml?persistentId=doi:10.7910/DVN/QB75LB
Hundreds of thousands.
That's not true, on the form to say there was a death there's literally a box that says missing or possibly under rubble. The idea that if someone is under rubble means they weren't counted is ridiculous. Furthermore hamas has been counting literally every death, even ones of more natural causes.
got some sauce on 20% or more of gazans dead? Youd think hamas would be screaming it from the roof top and islamofascists everywhere would be celebrating the martyrs
Even if it were 56k, which it absolutely isn’t, is that not a high enough number for you cunts? Or is the usual rebuttal from you hasbara lackeys going to be:
A) it’s war, civilian casualties happen, Palestinians’ fault for existing
B) KHAMAS is known to hide between civilians, therefore it’s the Palestinians’ fault for allowing them to do so
C) Israel always announces before it attacks an area, there’s no more moral terrorist organization in the world than the IDF, therefore it’s the Palestinians’ fault for not moving out of those zones
D) Israel has the right to defend itself from Palestinian babies and children by being the colonizing force that it always has been (my favorite)
What goes around comes around. It’s just a matter of when.
think of it more like the holodomor. it was a genocide, we have documents as to what caused it but we dont have concrete hard evidence of how many actually died, just a range. a range between 3.5 million to 5 million, meaning that upwards of 1.5 million people are believed to have died but we dont know for sure, which is likely understating the actual amount of death.
in fact most genocides arent well documented, the holocaust was an outlier in this regard.
no, YOU would think that.
because you’re a genocide denier
Most of the world sees this as fucked up as it is.
You know Israel has killed more journalists since 2023 than were killed in all global conflicts combined since WWI? That’s why it’s so “covered up” with details in plain sight.
>You ignored the last study I gave you and said some dumb racist shit, clearly you’re not here in good faith. Shoo
You mean the study analyzing GHF aid distribution sites? Where does it claim that hundreds of thousands are dead?
[Palestinian population drops from 2.227 million to 1.85 million ](https://medium.com/@m4xim1l1an/the-grim-arithmetic-idf-data-reveals-377-000-palestinians-unaccounted-for-59f747490e61)
> As damning as the legal analysis is, the population data contained within the report’s maps points to a far greater catastrophe. Before the conflict, the population of the Gaza Strip was approximately 2.227 million. The Garb report includes maps displaying IDF estimates for the populations remaining in what are considered the three primary enclaves.
The numbers are as follows:
Gaza City: 1 million
Mawasi: 0.5 million
Central: 0.35 million
The total of these official estimates is 1.85 million people.
Simple arithmetic reveals a horrifying gap: 2.227 million minus 1.85 million leaves 377,000 people unaccounted for.
This number is more than six times the casualty figures commonly discussed in media reports. While some of these individuals may be displaced in the rubble-strewn landscapes outside the main enclaves, the sheer scale of this discrepancy, derived from the occupying power’s own population assessments, is staggering. It suggests a demographic catastrophe — whether from direct casualties, starvation, or disease — far exceeding what the world has been led to believe.
Thats evidence of bad data and civilian displacement. Thats not evidence hundreds of thousands are dead. Other sources posted trying to prove this claim at least 100k have fled. This also doesn't account for dead hamas fighters and supporters. I would be surprised if the real number was closer to 100k. But that doesn't account for normal deaths and deaths hamas directly or indirectly caused.
So you still find yourself defending the ethnic cleansing of over a hundred thousand from their homeland and at least 56k dead. Very cool and definitely doesn’t make you a disgusting person.
not everything is an ethnic cleansing. Sometimes its just war. Especially the only reason its "ethnic cleansing" is because the area in question already murdered or expelled anyone that wasn't muslim
[Gaza population dropped by 6% in 2024 ](https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/01/middleeast/israel-population-migration-war-intl)
Every 10 minutes a child is killed or injured by Israelis
Gaza has the most amount of child amputee
Atleast 55000 killed by Israeli direct attacks
More than 70000 killed from traumatic injuries alone
Total Palestinian death in Gaza Genocide between 185'000 - 335'000
More than 110'000 Palestenians are injured
Israel has not allowed any International press inside Gaza to report at the extent of atrocities
That's funny you say that because their is ongoing trial for genocide in the ICJ. South Africa V Israel. So that's the first step to proving it legally but it takes years. And the ICJ issued an injunction to stop Israel from keeping the war going late 2023. So.... I mean this is as close you get to it without the actual guilty verdict by the ICJ which is coming.
You internet israeli defence force goofys crack me up
There very obviously is no line.
IDF admit to executing starving civilians in "killing fields" and there wasn't a peep from my government. They even murdered citizens of my country, once again nothing.
I guess we all know who will be the _second_ country to ever use nukes in war.
Probably to squeeze the last drop of political capital from the pro-Zionist Democrats, they're on their last leg and are more predictable than Trump, who may indeed take reprisals against them just out of impulse.
October 7th was quite litterally about 1000 times less bad than what Israel did since, and not worse than the stuff Israel did before, and we've seen the coverage of that one.
The longer this conflict goes on, the more I am convinced this is just it. 3 years ago I would have scoffed at the idea and pointed at media/political bias skewing public opinion, but past a certain point it just doesn’t explain. White people are obsessively pro-Israel out of racism.
I mean, there's part of that. Absolutely. But the more real reason is the monstrous wall of agi-prop they've been fed for 70 years, the huge amounts of money Israel spend on politicians, on press, on outreach to communities that will then speak for them in the right countries.
They own the western media. They own the politicians. They own the banking systems.
All the conspiracies were true. Just replace the j word with Israel if you want. People have been silenced for decades about this.
Bro, past a certain point it’s wilful ignorance. They *want* to believe that which why every time this sort of conversation breaks out in otherwise semi-rational circles, Israel is given beyond reasonable doubt while imposing unreasonable conditions on Palestinians.
The game is rigged. They hate Palestinians and they want to genocide this. This temporary post-WW2 RBO facade is going to fade. These same people identity politicking will accept full blown colonisation and terror if packaged correctly. Obviously it’s not going to the way they hope, but we’re going back to the 1800s
Even white people are starting to wake up (I say this as a white European), but sadly you have a point. It’s all thinly veiled white supremacism, which is the same reason genocides in Africa are ignored
That’s ironic cause your people are being accused of being racist by not condemning Israel but could also get accused of antisemitism. It’s more like European people don’t want to get the antisemitism tag for defending brown people, Spain looks like the country most eager to condemn Israel in all the EU
If Israel didn't invade in 82 Hezbollah never would have existed. Hezbollah was a response it wasn't some anti semitic terror group. It was Shiaa farmers taking up arms to end foreign occupation. I wouldnt expect a Swedish person to have much idea about resistance though. You see a Nazi and touch the sky like Kanye bowy
I'm Swedish, and he like many Swedes is ignorant about the situation. Many Swedes simply say what's happening in Gaza is awful but that they don't quite understand the situation.
But then you have people who are actively putting the blame on the victims. Islamophobia is a large part of it I believe. Treating Islam and "distant" cultures as threats to Sweden is increasingly normal today. Most likely he doesn't care that Israel invaded in '82. People justify Israel's strikes on Iran because "it's better for Swedish security they're supplying Russia". They will act like they have a moral high ground but as soon as you dismantle that they'll simply argue that what's really important is prioritizing Sweden and allies. Morality and empathy has no impact.
In Swedish we have a word for this. "Empatistörd", literally "Empathy Damaged". They don't feel empathy for this. Wether it's due to actively avoiding pictures and videos of the thousands dying and children starving and looking like skeletons or if they actually know about it and still don't care I don't know.
>Releasing the hostages could make it all end.
People repeating this line after the Israeli regime rejected multiple cease fire offers that involved release of all hostages and in general made it pretty clear they will accept nothing other than full occupation of Gaza are either idiotic or just disingenious.
They're way past the point of redemption. If they stop now and grow a moral back bone, they'd have to recognise that they are, in someway, complicit in a genocide. That they are part of some of the most evil people that walk this planet. They're too far deep, it's become a cope they need to feed themselves to sleep well at night.
Yall do know that 500lbs is actually on the lighter side of ordinance, right?
Its headlines like these that just bank on the general target audience being ignorant morons
Not wanting to defend Israel and as someone who likes the guardian in general, this article feels somewhat disingenuous with its focus on the weight of the weapon.
For most western jets 500lbs (aprox 250kg) is the lightest standard aircraft bomb they carry. Most carry individual bombs of up to 2000lbs (aprox 1000kg) and some even larger than that.
We also know that Israel is getting large amounts of resupply for said larger bombs:
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
In essence, why focus on the mass of the bomb which was possibly the lightest that Israel was likely to be able too use for an airstrike and not on the fact that they chose to do an airstrike to begin with. ANY airstrike on a civilian location is inherently showing disregard for collateral damage and that choice is more damming and worthy of condemnation than the choice of 500lbs bombs.
Considering that Israel & media is known to have counted each and every single Qassam rocket as some devastating annihilation delivering attack on Israel:
A single 2000 lbs bomb has the payload of ~100 Qassam rockets.
The Hydra-70 has 19 rockets - the Apache can carry 4 of this weapon pods - that's the payload of ~40 Qassam rockets.
The Israeli artillery shell has a payload of ~80 lbs - that's about 4 Qassam's worth of explosives - but artillery isn't used as single shot - usually it's a salvo of 3-6 shots by three guns - so that's 36-72 Qassam's worth of payload.
You can mention it. But it isn't a large one for a jet, like people in this thread think it is.
At the same time, this sub gets upset when someone mentions "HAMAS run Gaza health ministry"
I'm perfectly aware of the various munitions that the US produces to be dropped from their aircraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anC1uWPW9Xo
This is what they dropped on a cafe full of civilians. It's worth mentioning the type of weapon, because Israel loves to tell everyone they use the most precise weaponry available to surgically strike individuals. In reality, this is what they're doing, dropping dumb bombs on groups they think look too... groupy.
Full of Civilians, yet a commander of the Jabaliya battalion of Hamas was killed and an anti-semitic pro-hamas Journalist who celebrated Oct 7th was injured.
Exactly, any and all airstrikes are inprecise. The claims of precision stem back to WW2 pepgaganda where they claim devices like the "Norden" bomb sight Made their strategic bombing of Germany "precise" and target at industrial targets only.
Focussing on saying they used 500lbs bombs is like saying "he decided to use a (short) sword" instead of "he decided to stab people", technically more precise but practically missing the point.
> any and all airstrikes are inprecise
When they've got arsenals of weaponry that are much smaller and much more precise, with CEP levels of less than 5m it's entirely fucking asinine to say something like that.
Yes, carpet bombing in WW2 was the only thing they could do. The modern world is entirely different.
Israel is capable of hitting **Iran** accurately. But they're dropping dumb bombs because that cafe was a hotspot for activists.
The weapon type is absolutely relevant.
…..
Israel has many more precise weapons, like drones and special munitions. Unparalleled levels of surveillance on the people of gaza. Israel is not only fighting Hamas with jets.
60,000 confirmed, certainly hundreds of thousands murdered Palestinians in the two years of Israel’s genocide. Even whispering the words “collateral damage” is pissing on their graves. Almost every day I see new footage of civilians being specifically targeted. Even israel admitted 80% of those it murders are civilians, and their own soldiers admit how loosely they use the label.
80%
https://thecradle.co/articles-id/30708
Everyone labeled as terrorist
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israeli-officers-admit-that-most-gaza-fatalities-classified-as-terrorists-are-civilians/3180347
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-18/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-soldiers-expose-arbitrary-killings-and-rampant-lawlessness-in-gazas-netzarim-corridor/00000193-da7f-de86-a9f3-fefff2e50000
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/photos-show-israels-incredible-precision-to-take-out-irans-high-ranking-officials-8667263 is what they do when their goal *isn't* masd-murder
Note on the headline - thats a bog-freakin'-standard Mk82 bomb. It's probably the smallest the IDF uses, unless they're using 250lb Mk81s or GBU-39/53 smart bombs
The west dont care.
Its normalised now.
A few performative condemnation here and there and we move on.
The israeli trolls will do their usual muddying of waters to sow doubt. A cafe? In Gaza??
In the mean time, BBC and other Western media are still focused on Bob Dylan so that people don't talk about Israeli war crimes. We have always been at war with Eastasia
#####	
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####	
> # [Israeli military used 500lb bomb in strike on Gaza cafe, fragments reveal](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/92191db714300effb554e318f565d7228bb819e4/86_0_1500_1200/master/1500.jpg?width=1200&height=630&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&overlay-align=bottom%2Cleft&overlay-width=100p&overlay-base64=L2ltZy9zdGF0aWMvb3ZlcmxheXMvdGctZGVmYXVsdC5wbmc&enable=upscale&s=bc090baef2b3d0cedc9fa60bdf9bd91a)
>
>
>
> The Israeli military used a 500lb (230kg) bomb – a powerful and indiscriminate weapon that generates a massive blast wave and scatters shrapnel over a wide area – when it attacked a target in a crowded [beachfront cafe](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/01/the-scenes-were-beyond-anything-imaginable-busy-gaza-seafront-cafe-devastated-by-airstrike) in Gaza on Monday, evidence seen by the Guardian has revealed.
>
> Experts in international law said the use of such a munition despite the known presence of many unprotected civilians, including children, women and elderly people, was almost certainly unlawful and may constitute a war crime.
>
> Fragments of the weapon from the ruins of al-Baqa cafe photographed by the Guardian have been identified by ordnance experts as parts of an MK-82 general purpose 230kg bomb, a US-made staple of many bombing campaigns in recent decades.
>
> The large crater left by the explosion is further evidence of the use of a large and powerful bomb such as the MK-82, two ordnance experts said.
>
> An [Israel](https://www.theguardian.com/world/israel) Defense Forces (IDF) spokesperson said the attack on the cafe in Monday was under review and that “prior to the strike, steps were taken to mitigate the risk of harming civilians using aerial surveillance”.
>
> Medical and other officials said between 24 and 36 Palestinians were killed in the attack on the cafe and dozens more were injured. The dead included a well-known film-maker and an artist, a 35-year-old housewife and a four-year-old child. Among the injured was a 14-year-old boy and a 12-year-old girl.
>
> Under international law based on the Geneva conventions, a military is forbidden to launch attacks that cause “incidental loss of civilian life” that is “[excessive or disproportionate](https://theconversation.com/what-is-the-rule-of-proportionality-and-is-it-being-observed-in-the-israeli-siege-of-gaza-217321)” to the military advantage to be gained.
>
> What is considered acceptable is open to interpretation but experts said only a target whose elimination might have a very significant impact on the course of a conflict could justify the death of dozens of civilians.
>
> The cafe had two storeys – an open upper deck and a lower floor with wide windows on to the beach and sea – and approaches that were clearly visible from above.
>
> [Closeup of a grey bomb fragment](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/58caa25f7455da721986dac099209489b5c2baef/0_226_1200_960/master/1200.jpg?width=445&dpr=1&s=none&crop=none)
>
> A closeup of a bomb fragment from the ruins of al-Baqa cafe. Photograph: Enas Tantesh/The Guardian
>
> Gerry Simpson, of Human Right Watch, , said: “The Israeli military hasn’t said exactly whom it was targeting but it said it used aerial surveillance to minimise civilian casualties, which means it knew the cafe was teeming with customers at the time.
>
> “The military would also have known that using a large guided air-dropped bomb would kill and maim many of the civilians there. The use of such a large weapon in an obviously crowded cafe risks that this was an unlawful disproportionate or indiscriminate attack and should be investigated as a war crime.”
>
> Dr Andrew Forde, an assistant professor of human rights law at Dublin City University, said the strike was shocking. “When you see a situation where there are heavy munitions being used, particularly [in a] crowded civilian space, even with the best targeting in the world … that will necessarily create an indiscriminate outcome that is not in compliance with … the Geneva conventions,” he said.
>
> The family-run al-Baqa cafe was founded almost 40 years ago and was well known as a recreation spot for young people and families in [Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/gaza) City. It served a small selection of soft drinks, tea and biscuits.
>
> Though the vast majority of Gaza’s 2.3 million population suffer acutely [with growing malnutrition](https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/06/1164951) and a continuing threat of famine, some have savings or salaries that allow them to patronise the few remaining cafes.
>
> The port area where al-Baqa cafe was located was not covered by any of the evacuation orders issued by the IDF to warn of impending military operations.
>
> [A crater on a beach](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/33cda3f08a02bcb25599ab5ba4b280f62e8ff59a/804_0_4583_3667/master/4583.jpg?width=445&dpr=1&s=none&crop=none)
>
> A crater at the scene of Monday’s airstrike. Photograph: Mahmoud Issa/Reuters
>
> Marc Schack, an associate professor of international law at the University of Copenhagen, said: “It is almost impossible to see how this use of that kind of munition can be justified. If you are talking about 20, 30, 40 or more civilian casualties, usually that would have to be a target of very great importance … For coalition forces in Afghanistan and Iraq, the accepted number for a very high-level target was less than 30 civilians getting killed, and only then in exceptional circumstances.”
>
> Trevor Ball, a weapons researcher and former US army explosive ordnance disposal technician, identified a Jdam tail section and thermal battery which he said suggested either an MPR500 or an MK-82 bomb was dropped.
>
> Another expert with extensive experience of recent conflicts identified the bomb similarly. A third said they could not make a reliable assessment from the pictures presented to them.
>
> Israel has an wide range of munitions and has frequently used much smaller weapons for precision strikes against individuals [in Gaza](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-airs-clip-of-drone-strike-on-gaza-terror-operatives-who-were-carrying-explosives/), Lebanon, and in its recent air offensive in Iran.
>
> The IDF said in a lengthy statement earlier this year that even the most sophisticated measures employed to assess civilian harm were hardly ever perfect and that its choice of munitions was “a professional matter contingent on the nature of the strike’s objective”.
>
> The [statement](https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/idf-press-releases-israel-at-war/january-25-pr/response-to-the-new-york-times-article-concerning-idf-operations-during-the-first-weeks-of-the-hamas-israel-war/) said: “While some targets are suitable for smaller payloads, others may require heavier munitions to achieve mission success – for example, when intending to destroy structures that are built with certain hard materials, large structures, or underground tunnel.”
>
> On Tuesday, an Israel government spokesperson said the IDF “never, ever targets civilians”.
>
> Israel has repeatedly accused Hamas of using civilians as human shields, a charge that the militant Islamist group denies.
> - - - - - -
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