[Hardware Unboxed] The Radeon RX 9070 XT is Now Faster, AMD FineWine
Posted by sloppyjalopy@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 279 comments
Posted by sloppyjalopy@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 279 comments
Pugs-r-cool@reddit
I bought an RX 9070 and don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic card and I've had very few issues with it, but I really don't like the whole "AMD fine wine" thing. AMD fans have turned poor quality launch drivers into a feature, when it really shouldn't be.
They especially dropped the ball with CS2, it's one of the most popular games and I'm sure a lot of people picked a 5070 Ti at launch because it had the better CS2 numbers, even though a few months later it turns out that the AMD card would've been the better choice.
The poor launch drivers look bad on reviews too, launch review videos are what everyone will reference throughout the entire life of a GPU, and it's not a good showing when performance figures in those videos could be up to 27% worse than the card's real performance today. In certain games swings like that are enough to change purchasing decisions.
I understand that AMD is a small indie company who's trying their best or whatever, but sometimes it's really not good enough. Nvidia have had their own bout of driver issues with the 50 series, but the bad launch drivers have been an issue for over a decade and they should really work on improving them.
Zenith251@reddit
Well, I'll take a stable driver now for a faster one later, if that was an option. And the AMD launch drivers were extremely stable, and still seem to be.
I haven't had any issues with my 9070XT since launch, but I know some releases did introduce a couple of issues that have already been resolved.
Pugs-r-cool@reddit
But with Nvidia, up until 50 series you never had to choose. You got a fast and stable driver on day one. I’m commenting on a general trend about this, nvidia has bad drivers this time around but for the past decade their have been better at launch than AMD’s.
Sevastous-of-Caria@reddit
This is why I like launch reviews. To quote Linus
Pugs-r-cool@reddit
But if you buy the card 6 months after that launch review, those numbers are now out of date. The product they're reviewing in the launch review video will have different performance figures to the product you're buying today, and that should impact your buying decisions.
Zenith251@reddit
Like the Windows change that boosted performance for seemingly all Zen processors out of nowhere. (And Intel Ultra series a little)
Only useful data is current data.
Sevastous-of-Caria@reddit
Yes. Thats why I admire HUB for redoing tests and videos. Hardworking team
BrightCandle@reddit
AMD is an enormous corporation with revenue in the billions, releasing cards with immature drivers has been its standard for decades now and its been a consistent problem. Bad drivers nearly sunk AMD GPU division over a decade ago. Its not a good feature that the cards gain so much, they would sell much better if the performance was there for the initial reviews.
Mahadshaikh@reddit
Bad drivers?.
Radeon hasn't had bad drivers since the rx 6000 days over half a decade ago, unlike nvidia's drivers which are still black screening.
The only thing you seem to have a problem with is the fact that Radeon increases their GPU performance is by optimizing it over time while nvidia for the most part doesn't (exceptions not included).
At launch, the 9070 it was 2% slower and priced close to $350 cheaper, so it was a no brainer.
Now it's only $200 cheaper yet is faster.
I wouldn't be surprised if half a decade from now, they eke out another 5%.
Just because nvidia's GPU performance regresses 5 yrs from now, doesn't mean Radeon has bad drivers if they're able to eke out more performance.
Had the driver's been bad, they would have been black screening but Nvidia is the one with the black screen problems
BigSassyBoi@reddit
Better than Blackwell black screening and crashing constantly. RDNA 4 is a massive architectural shift from RDNA 3, it's odd they're even labeled as in the same family. Drivers have been rock solid in terms of stability atleast. With such a massive change in architecture, increased performance with drivers makes sense.
Sevastous-of-Caria@reddit
It is a big change. But UDNA is going to be dwarfing rdna4s cache optimised changes to rdna3. Thats the real test since the launch of navi (rdna)
Pugs-r-cool@reddit
I addressed both of those at the end, nvidia is currently having issues yes but historically they've had pretty solid drivers at launch. The AMD "fine wine" trend has been around for over a decade, you can't blame this on RDNA 4 when we've been talking about "fine wine" since the R9 290X. AMD has launched their cards with premature drivers for a long time now.
I agree that drivers have been fairly stable, I haven't had any blue screens or full system crashes, but for whatever reason some games (particularly unity based ones) that the card should easily be able to handle are a stuttery mess for the first minute or so before being playable. Can't say I saw the same thing happening with my 3060 Ti I had before this.
BigSassyBoi@reddit
Did you own a 6800 XT or a 7000 series card? Neither of them really gained much FPS throughout time. RDNA 1 was tough at the beginning, but 2 and 3 were closer in terms of architecture. I ran both a 6800 XT and a 7900 XTX, they didn't exhibit what you're talking about. Fact of the matter is RDNA 4 is a major overhaul and it makes sense for them to get better over time. Companies have to put products out on the market at a certain point, they decided their level of performance and stability was good enough for a release. Would you rather they wait 6-8 months and have the drivers in this state or release the cards when they did? The 3060 ti had a similar advantage to RDNA 2 and 3, it's a very similar derivative of what they'd already done on 2000 series. I owned a 3060 ti as well, and it had it's share of crashing issues as well (no where near as bad as the RX 5700 but still).
mockingbird-@reddit
NVIDIA also had to release a driver update to fix Counter-Strike 2 performance in Blackwell.
RealOxygen@reddit
Now 3% faster than a 5070 Ti at 1440p in HUB's 16 game average, pretty cool for regions like mine where the 9070 XT is a lot cheaper than the 5070 TI
Igoruss@reddit
in Poland, 5070 is 100$ cheaper than 9070 (780$)
Scytian@reddit
And 9070 XT is over 125$ cheaper than 5070 Ti
Strazdas1@reddit
5070 is cheaper here too. AMD has bad pricing in EU usually.
Devucis@reddit
i bought 9070 XT for 830 euro while 5070 ti would cost me 1100-1200 and im from eu too
Strazdas1@reddit
just checked right now. Cheapest 9070Xt here is 803 euros. Cheapest 5070 ti is 887 euros.
but what was actually discussed was 5070 vs 9070: Cheapest 5070 - 572 euros. Cheapest 9070 - 659 euros.
So 5070 being nearly 100 euros cheaper was initially claimed is correct. 5070 is
Devucis@reddit
nope i just checked my internet shops too and 9070 is still cheaper by 50 euro most of the time than 5070
szczszqweqwe@reddit
50$, currently in both cases according to ceneo krsystems is the cheapest for both:
2555 zł for 9070 reaper
2380 zł for 5070 ventus X2
maarcius@reddit
You can order on amazon.de Multiple times asus was selling for 520 euro with 10% discount
szczszqweqwe@reddit
Those are lowest current prices. You can probably also get a 9070 for cheaper if you wait for some discount.
maarcius@reddit
then by current prices 5070 is 75-80 cheaper than 9070.
szczszqweqwe@reddit
I'm just giving lowest current prices, not prices for 10 GPUs which might or might not appear randomly at some time.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
50 bucks for 4 gigs of VRAM is an easy choice to make tbh.
Renard4@reddit
You're in Poland, you get access to the EU market, right now it's a lot cheaper than that even with VAT added.
Green_Struggle_1815@reddit
the eu market isnt unified. lots of dealers simply refuse to ship across borders. mindfactory being one of them.
f3n2x@reddit
You can buy them, you just need a shipping address in Germany and there are services which do that for you for a couple of bucks.
xHakua@reddit
Prices dropped recently, you can get 9070 xt for 800
INITMalcanis@reddit
I swear to god, AMD's shipping strategy is so obscure. I'm sure it makes some kind of sense to them, but it sure doesn't make any sense to me.
RealOxygen@reddit
The lower VRAM will probably keep sales lower (relative to supply) -> keep prices lower
SagittaryX@reddit
It's GDDR7 vs GDDR6, so different supply with GDDR6 likely being around in much bigger quantities.
Olde94@reddit
Heck in my country i can get a 9070 xt for the same price as the cheap 5070 non ti!
Sevastous-of-Caria@reddit
Same here. Is it a poor country though? The unobtanium doesnt radiate from cards. Its from us :((
Olde94@reddit
Wouldn’t call us poor hehe. Denmark? So top of the economy charts
Sevastous-of-Caria@reddit
Happy for you then
Olde94@reddit
Thanks. I’ll the continue to complain about high taxes, but overall i fell lucky
shroudedwolf51@reddit
Those taxes do quite a lot, you know. The US is where it is partially because of the obsession with minimal taxes.
Olde94@reddit
Oh i know. I just had a medical thing. Went to the Emergency room twice last week and went in and out without ever thinking of cost.
I don’t have debt after my masters degree.
I’m not scared of the financial situation of loosing my job.
Plenty of good things. I’ll happily pay my tax, even if it’s still annoying
PMoney2311@reddit
Man, you don't wanna know the difference in gross cost of medical care between the US and some Euro countries with equally great healthcare. It's insane.
Olde94@reddit
i do know. I have seen plenty of bad examples. Heck my last job made medicin and the same pill was 3x the cost in US. Though i'm not entirely convinced WE were the ones who earned the extra penny.... It seems like the middle men in US takes q huge margin from what i read.
Ramongsh@reddit
Doesn't this also come down to the horrible nvidia drivers?
cha0z_@reddit
tbh nvidia fixed most of the issues, but maaaan - was it horrible when 5xxx released, including for all 4xxx GPUs
RealOxygen@reddit
Could do, are the drivers still cooked?
JudgeCheezels@reddit
576.xx branch has been pretty solid so far.
lovely_sombrero@reddit
Not nearly as bad as a few months ago. There are still a few individual issues, but nothing that you would experience constantly.
loozerr@reddit
Weren't most of the issues in 40 series and earlier?
popop143@reddit
During the launch of the 50-series, it was mostly 50-series experiencing issues ironically. Earlier generations had less issues reported, at least in r/nvidia's driver threads.
work-school-account@reddit
IIRC the timing corresponds to when Nvidia said they're using AI to write their drivers
sh1boleth@reddit
Is there any source to this? Ive only heard it in comments like these without substanial proof
work-school-account@reddit
It was a couple years ago so I might be misremembering.
Not so great source I found from the first page of google results: https://overclock3d.net/news/gpu-displays/nvidias_reportedly_using_ai_to_optimise_their_gpu_drivers_and_we_may_see_the_results_soon/
sh1boleth@reddit
The article links to a Dead OC3D Article (I assume they deleted it) which claims Nvidia 'confirms' that they use AI - https://overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/how_nvidia_s_beating_moore_s_law_with_ai_and_smart_silicon_design/1
Why delete unless they reported rumors as factual
So just hearsay and rumors
Real-Terminal@reddit
Yea I recently got a 4070 and had to roll back to a driver from last year to stop it crashing games.
Strazdas1@reddit
No. 50 series took the brunt of the issues.
Capable-Silver-7436@reddit
50 series had the bulk of them, 40 had some. 30 and 20 had few
f1rstx@reddit
Never had a single one with 4070
RealOxygen@reddit
My recollection is that 40 and 50 series were the worst affected, 30 a little, with the 50 series not having any stable build available to roll back to like previous gens
loozerr@reddit
Ah, I thought they pushed updates they had only properly tested on 50 series.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Well, tbh I'd say this is a sign they're still cooked, but it's on raw perf rather then stability.
BlueGoliath@reddit
Yes.
fafatzy@reddit
They are not that bad nowadays
Capable-Silver-7436@reddit
theyre more raw than they were a few months ago but still got some slow roasting going down
szczszqweqwe@reddit
Haven't they mostly fixed them?
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Maybe stability, but I suspect this is a sign they still have some perf issues to fix.
awr90@reddit
He says in the video Overall the 5070ti saw a 2.5% improvement since launch so can’t blame the drivers. They have actually improved
LordMohid@reddit
AMD should market this, because these are insane gains. Not sure how many people will find out about it
ghostsilver@reddit
Nope, because that would mean "our product right now can only deliver 90% of ther performance, and we might be able to bring it to 100% with driver update in an abitrary time in the future"
loozerr@reddit
AMD Fine Wine was marketed widely. But maybe they pulled the campaign because it basically means "our drivers are broken on launch, wait before you buy "
I-wanna-fuck-SCP1471@reddit
This is always what came to my mind whenever people mention AMD as "fine wine", just means i have zero interest in buying a GPU on product release and would rather wait for it to have it's real performance later.
Webbyx01@reddit
It also makes me worry about their drivers in general. Do they need to optimize for games one at a time, or have they figured things out enough that new releases 2 or 3 years from now will get essentially full performance once major support is dropped.
Kyanche@reddit
The thing I don't get, having owned a gtx 1070, 1070ti, rtx 3070, 3080ti, and AMD 5700xt and 9070xt......
The AMD drivers and cards have been a lot more reliable. Maybe I just play the wrong games lol. The nvidia cards have always been a shit show of broken driver updates and random black screens and games crashing out.
I-wanna-fuck-SCP1471@reddit
Same here.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Eh, RDNA 4 worked fine at launch, it's just working better now.
I-wanna-fuck-SCP1471@reddit
Worked fine at launch as in they had upwards of 26% worse performance than they should have, taking until now to actually get to the point of having their fixed performance.
I'd prefer if these cards launched without having to wait for driver updates to fix them.
noiserr@reddit
No one is forcing you to wait. Nor should you wait for "potential" driver improvements. 9070xt was competitively priced (at least at MSRP) at launch. So you can't really complain.
I-wanna-fuck-SCP1471@reddit
AMD is, if i want good performance instead of just acceptable. And like you said, if it was sold at MSRP it would've been fine, but as you're already aware, it wasn't. So yes, i can infact complain.
noiserr@reddit
9070xt release drivers had good enough performance. This isn't the ARC situation. People who bought the 9070xt at launch were happy with the performance at launch. This is just free performance on top of already good performance.
loozerr@reddit
It was an "nvidia -$50" deal which I don't think is particularly good
noiserr@reddit
no it wasn't.
Sevastous-of-Caria@reddit
You can interpret this however you see fit. Amd not giving enough attention to launch. Amd giving extra attention to give more performance post launch. Or even nvidia neglecting performance optimisations post launch. Because they just release it "game ready" and dont look back even though there was performance potential for example.
reddanit@reddit
The original fine wine comes from Radeon 7000 series and several subsequent generations. It actually had very little if anything to do with driver quality and everything with AMD successful bet on low level APIs, originally Mantle that then evolved into Vulkan and DirectX 12. Basically AMD GPUs ended up designed from ground up to run Dx12 games before Dx12 existed.
NVidia switched their approach to GPU design towards those low level APIs a good while later. So over a bunch of years, their cards fared relatively less well in newer games that were designed from ground up to take advantage of Vulkan/Dx12.
In some ways this does bear a LOT of resemblance to how hardware accelerated upscaling has played out nowadays. With even oldest RTX cards reaping large rewards from latest DLSS developments, while RDNA3 and older are stuck without a feasible path to run FSR4.
noiserr@reddit
If the GPU is competitively priced for the performance it has at launch then this is free performance. Because you paid for the performance it had before improvements.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
And time not dealing with the Blackwell drivers shitting themselves.
RTukka@reddit
It's not like you miss out on the performance gains if you buy earlier though. If you're paying the same amount and the purchase still represents a significant upgrade for you, you're better off buying sooner rather than later.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
And it was unclear around launch if the supply issues would resolve any time soon due to... everything.
Suspicious_Put_3446@reddit
Plus the price drops, pays to be patient.
AMD718@reddit
It can also mean "Pay the market rate for X performance today, and later maybe get 20% more performance than you paid for"
mockingbird-@reddit
That’s what AMD’s old Radeon team did: the one that is now Intel’s Arc team.
mockingbird-@reddit
That’s what AMD’s old Radeon team did: the one that is now Intel’s Arc team.
PainterRude1394@reddit
What? This just happened with rdna3s botched launch.
mockingbird-@reddit
What are you talking about?
GenderGambler@reddit
How in the heck do you interpret it as "broken now; fix later" when you're paying less for competitive performance regarding a product from the competition?
If I buy a 9070 XT over a 5070 ti because it performs just about the same, and costs less, why the hell would I think it was broken then when, later down the line, driver improvements manage to squeeze an extra 5-10% uplift in games? It just means my purchase was an even better value than initially thought.
conquer69@reddit
They would probably say "it's faster now so the msrp is now officially $700".
mockingbird-@reddit
AMD’s former Radeon team (now Intel’s Arc team) did that, but it was rightly mocked to mean broken now; fix later.
PainterRude1394@reddit
What? This just happened with rdna3s botched launch.
mockingbird-@reddit
What are you talking about?
sh1boleth@reddit
They should market that their product is inferior at launch and they ‘might’ improve it? You do know it’s better to just have the full performance at launch.
They’ve marketed in the past but with AMD dropping driver support for their card much faster than Nvidia it leaves a bad taste after marketing something like this.
mockingbird-@reddit
That’s what AMD’s old Radeon team did: the one that is now Intel’s Arc team.
mockingbird-@reddit
That’s what AMD’s old Radeon team did: the one that is now Intel’s Arc team.
PainterRude1394@reddit
Fysa, engineering teams do not run marketing.
mockingbird-@reddit
What’s your point?
Antonis_32@reddit
TLDR:
At 1440P 16 game average (latest game updates and drivers):
RTX 5070 Ti 16GB saw a 2.5% improvement
RX 9070 XT 16GB saw a 9% improvement
At 4K 16 game average (latest game updates and drivers):
RTX 5070 Ti 16GB saw a 3% improvement
RX 9070 XT 16GB saw a4% improvement
ShadowRomeo@reddit
This pretty much just tells me that the Nvidia overhead driver on lower resolution than 4K is hindering the 5070 Ti's performance, whereas on 4K both are nearly the same.
That said though I think both of these are so close to relative performance to each other that they are practically the same here, at least speaking with rasterization performance only.
Ray Tracing / Path Tracing is different story.
oldpillowcase@reddit
I assumed it was down to the 5070ti having GDDR7 and thus higher bandwidth for less performance loss at 4K.
I run upscaling in basically everything, because I like FPS more than perfect image quality, so I only really look at the 1440p results anyway.
Active-Quarter-4197@reddit
No it is bc nvidia doesn’t have rebar on by default in a lot of games and needs to be forced wheras amd always has it on
ShadowRomeo@reddit
Same here too. But I can't deny that both are 4K capable GPUs as well, so that metric definitely matters for some people as well.
Especially considering both has sufficient enough vram to drive 4K gaming anyway especially with AI Hardware based upscalers.
conquer69@reddit
Wouldn't it mean the opposite? The amd driver was hindering cpu performance but now isn't? If you watch the video, you will see 5070 ti performance staying the same in many games but rdna4 improves.
ShadowRomeo@reddit
Could be a lot of things, maybe AMD has managed to fix with their drivers, as usually the case with their launch hence they invented the term "Fine Wine" to hide that their drivers isn't showing the full potential of their GPU on day 1.
Same can be said as well with Nvidia hence even they saw performance improvement compared to their day 1 performance but is being hindered by the CPU overhead when it's being bottlenecked by the CPU on lower resolution.
This is a well-known thing with Nvidia GPUs in general, that is thoroughly investigated by tech reviewers.
HerpidyDerpi@reddit
Profiling or GTFO.
Could be your head up your ass. Could be!
OftenSarcastic@reddit
AMD didn't invent the term "Fine Wine". It was a meme the community came up with because the early generations of GCN saw big driver-level performance improvements over their lifetime.
ShadowRomeo@reddit
And yet AMD Radeon embraced it on the days of Polaris / GCN. It's like they really thought it was a good marketing idea that should make them look good compared to competition but apparently it backfired upon them because it just makes them look bad because they can't bring proper fully working drivers with the full potential of the GPU on day 1.
OftenSarcastic@reddit
Have they used it in marketing? I remember Raja Koduri saying he didn't like the term.
Also paying 100% money for 100% performance today and 110%-120% performance tomorrow is a good marketing point for most value oriented consumers. Nobody actually cares that the free performance comes from driver optimisations as long as they're only paying the 100% on day 1.
Like my R9 290 started out equal to a GTX 780 and priced slightly lower. Two years later is was 15-20% faster and closer to the GTX 780 Ti. AMD didn't send me a bill for another 20%.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
And eh, if this is a preview of what we're seeing with both finalgen RDNA and GFX13...
Webbyx01@reddit
I just want to mention that the PNY 5070Ti OC was in stock multiple times today on B&HPhoto and BestBuy for $780 and $750 respectively. However stock is intermittent enough that its not a viable option if you need to buy one right now.
hja-gaming@reddit
Does this apply to the normal (non XT) rx 9070?
noVa_realiZe@reddit
Non-scientific test on my RX 9070 non-XT: ran the Cyberpunk benchmark with both the most recent and previous driver. My average went from 70.82 fps to 84.57 fps, the min went from 57.55 fps to 73.42 fps, and the max went from 86.25 fps to 109.42 fps. Like I said, not really a scientific test since I was taking a quick look with the same settings across both, and it seems to have a 15-20% boost in this particular game.
mockingbird-@reddit
obviously
hja-gaming@reddit
There's no benchmarks online showing the performance uplift on the non-XT
andwhenna@reddit
fml just bought a 5070ti yesterday and the 9070xt is 17% cheaper in my region
angrycat537@reddit
I guess only 7800xt didn't get that fine wine treatment
Unkechaug@reddit
Considering how there wasn't much uplift from the 6000 series to begin with, how RDNA4 was going to be a bigger departure without backporting features, and how UDNA is the future, I am not too surprised. It's a fine card on its own so you should be happy, but if you are looking for longevity and future proofing that is not the card to get. I grabbed a low end one around BF for $430 and ended up returning it because I didn't foresee it lasting too long.
MonoShadow@reddit
That's the thing I don't enjoy about this "AMD Fine wine" circle jerk. It's very much selective
In the recent Q&A HUB themselves said AMD GPUs become outdated way faster compared other vendors and they simply cannot recommend rDNA3 today. Steve mentions it in passing in the conclusion, "[...]rDNA 3 killed the Fine Wine narrative[...]"
I guess they are memeing\playing to the cheap seats for clicks and it's obviously working.
AreYouAWiiizard@reddit
RDNA3 didn't get the fine wine treatment, not because there weren't gains in drivers but because when they retested games, more and more were starting to use RT, some without an option of turning it off.
MonoShadow@reddit
It also didn't get fine wine treatment because FRS4 isn't available there while all nVidia RTX cards including Turing got Transformer model. rDNA1 arguably didn't fine the best wine because it lacked any RT hardware, meanwhile 2000 series still keeps going. etc,etc.
There also weren't many big gains and usually such gains show something is broken, like nVidia with Space Marine 2 or Intel Arc in general. HUB themselves discussed it and came to the same conclusion on Fine Wine.
only_r3ad_the_titl3@reddit
This is what annoys me about HUB. They kept recommeding AMD on the basis that RT and DLSS were useless which obviously turned out to be wrong but they really didnt like if you had a different opinion.
Still now no RT testing here. And then they claim stuff like: hm seems like AMD needs to be 30% cheaper than nvidia which is crazy. Except they again ignore RT performance.
Positive-Vibes-All@reddit
RT is only starting to be useful because it is unavoidable, because it is cheaper for developers to do lighting this way.
By the time PS6 rolls around it will be the only thing.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
That and there's those signs that RDNA 3 may have been badly broken silicon-wise; there's only so much blood you can wring from that lithography.
fatso486@reddit
7800 was released late so got the updated mature drivers during release. The 7900XT(X) cards OTOH did see some nice jump in performance a few months after release.
mockingbird-@reddit
What do you mean?
The Radeon RX 7800 XT wasn’t retested.
Regardless, it has been around for longer so it likely doesn’t have as many low hanging fruits
-SUBW00FER-@reddit
Because it’s stuck with shitty FSR3 while all Nvidia RTX cards get DLSS4.
rodfig@reddit
Yep, I guess I'm just very unlucky. Both AMD cards I’ve had — an RX 5600 XT and now an RX 7800 XT — seem to have received the AMD fine milk treatment instead.
unixmachine@reddit
This benchmark is very selective. Sony games and Call of Duty are very favorable to AMD GPUs. And only raster, no RT tests.
HakunaBananas@reddit
This. Hardware Unboxed in well known for having a slight AMD bias. I already see articles popping up now claiming the 9070xt is overall faster based upon this video.
I will wait for other benchmarks with more diverse samples to come out before making up my mind on which card to get.
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
PCGH came to the same conclusion recently though.
ResponsibleJudge3172@reddit
Not 9% though
Mahadshaikh@reddit
It's the same suite of tests that put Nvidia ahead before and it also includes titles that favor Nvidia to an absurd degree just like call of duty.
Strazdas1@reddit
cant watch video content right now. Is this again a case of 2 games improving a lot skewing the average up or is this improvement across the board?
OftenSarcastic@reddit
1440p
Strazdas1@reddit
Thank you. Looks like its improvement in some group of games while +0% in different group.
Pugs-r-cool@reddit
Skip to 13:30 for the per game 1440p data
TLDR, of the 16 games tested, a quarter of them improved by a lot (14-27%), a quarter of them saw 0% improvement, and the remaining half were somewhere in the middle.
dedoha@reddit
Bit of both
Framed-Photo@reddit
Like Steve said, still doesn't change the overall situation much, it'll come down to how much you value Nvidia features, and what the pricing is like in your regions.
If you're in the US and the difference is $700 vs $900 then the 9070xt (even if it should be $600) is a no brainer.
If you're in one of those regions with MSRP Nvidia cards and overpriced AMD cards like they covered here, then Nvidia probably still makes more sense.
Seems like in most places the 9070xt is priced too high compared to the 5070ti.
Zenith251@reddit
It does make the price differential a little more significant.
Yeah, we all wish the 9070 XT was actually $600-700, but at $700 where you can find it, its still a good deal.
mockingbird-@reddit
It depends on how much you value having stable drivers.
NeroClaudius199907@reddit
Thats why steam users are avoiding 9070xt
mockingbird-@reddit
Many of them are still stuck with an outdated belief that NVIDIA has superior drivers than AMD, rather than the other way around.
Framed-Photo@reddit
Whoever has "superior" drivers depends on the week you ask. Both Nvidia and AMD have shipped deal breaking bugs throughout the years and they don't always get fixed quickly. It wasn't that long ago that AMD shipped a version of antilag that got hundreds of people vac banned from Counter Strike, for example lol.
mockingbird-@reddit
AMD hasn't had widespread black screen issues since RDNA 1.
Framed-Photo@reddit
Right, and that's a problem they never did fix (I'd know, I'm currently using a 5700XT lol). And like I said, they got you banned from CS if you used their new feature that one time, or their overlay doesn't open half the time and you have to manually kill the task, etc.
Neither company is better here, AMD just happens to have some good drivers now on the new cards, and Nvidia happens to have some worse ones, that can easily flip flop just like it always has.
My point is that buying one card or another right now specifically because of how the drivers are isn't really going to work that well, it changes up to often.
b_86@reddit
At least in Europe prices are coming down by the day, though. There has been several instances of the 9070XT hitting MSRP and the 9070 going below it without selling out instantly during these past weeks. At more than 100€ difference with the 5070Ti right now, it's a no brainer IMO.
Framed-Photo@reddit
Here in Canada you can somewhat consistently get the 5070ti for its 1089 MSRP (which yes, should technically be lower because our exchange rate has gotten better but that won't happen lol).
Meanwhile, the cheapest 9070XT I've ever seen outside of launch was $900 a few weeks ago, when the MSRP at that point should convert to $820, and that sold out in like an hour and required an account at Canada Computers to see.
Other ones have been listed at $959 or more since launch, which is just disapointing.
For the extra $150 CAD on top of a $1100 purchase I think it makes more sense to just go Nvidia even if I hate a lot of their practices lol.
Keulapaska@reddit
Well Euro is 1.18 USD currently, on launch March 6th it was 1.08 so makes sense the euro price drops a bit.
b_86@reddit
Yeah, the 9070 going below euro MSRP is a normal price. You can't expect it go all the way down to current exchange rate + VAT (although it would be nice) since businesses have to take fluctuations into account with their risk analysis and mitigations and all that but the 9070XT could really go below the current 690€ MSRP to something like 650 or 660€
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Yeah, between saturation and RDNA 4 being easier to fab en mass with the older and more available ram format, not a surprising development.
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
This sub never disappoints. Instead of being glad we get more performance for (now) less money, we find a way to spin it into something bad. "Why weren't drivers this good 3 months ago!!!"
NBPEL@reddit
People be idiots like that, ignore them, being toxic is also another reason people stay away from AMD community and embrace the fake positive NVIDIA community, they do smile even if NVIDIA puts shit in their mouth and tell them to swallow
fatso486@reddit
Damn...%9 is a generational uplift. What AMD did with drivers is actually bigger than what nVidia did with HW Ada->GB. TBF though I wouldn't call %9 Fine wine, more like horribly broken release drivers.
Mahadshaikh@reddit
Bad drivers?.
Radeon hasn't had bad drivers since the rx 6000 days over half a decade ago, unlike nvidia's drivers which are still black screening.
The only thing you seem to have a problem with is the fact that Radeon increases their GPU performance is by optimizing it over time while nvidia for the most part doesn't (exceptions not included).
At launch, the 9070 it was 2% slower and priced close to $350 cheaper, so it was a no brainer.
Now it's only $200 cheaper yet is faster.
I wouldn't be surprised if half a decade from now, they eke out another 5%.
Just because nvidia's GPU performance regresses 5 yrs from now, doesn't mean Radeon has bad drivers if they're able to eke out more performance.
Had the driver's been bad, they would have been black screening but Nvidia is the one with the black screen problems.
only_r3ad_the_titl3@reddit
amd fans cant keep themselves from lying lol
tyezwyldadvntrz@reddit
would it be foolish to expect a change in performance on a 9060xt as well?
BeerGogglesFTW@reddit
I wouldn't expect it to this degree.
Because it's all the same tech, just kinda halved and came out months later... it probably launched with a lot of this increased performance.
BlobTheOriginal@reddit
Could be a recent driver update though
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I guess this is why nVidia was getting twitchy around the 5060/TI launch...
conquer69@reddit
No, I would expect it. Some of the games had clearly driver problems before like CS2 and warhammer 40K and now seem fixed.
Chimbondaowns@reddit
I don't think so. This has been very common in the last decade for all classes of AMD gpus.
Even_Clue4047@reddit
AMD out here giving us the uplift from the 40->50 series for free
fkenthrowaway@reddit
I wish someone compared 9070 XT and 5070 TI when undervolted and limited to 200W. I assume 5070 TI is much faster at 200W. I just need a good performing 200W card for the summer and 300W for the winter.
Numerous_Row_7533@reddit
You could get the 9070 and flash the 9070xt bios during winter.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
As mentioned in their recent podcast, Hardware Unboxed did not recommend people buying RDNA3 cards at launch and also mentioned that RDNA 3 did not age well with the lack of FSR4.
Similar to RDNA3, FSR5 will likely not be supported on RDNA4
ArdaOneUi@reddit
Yep as everyone know things just repeat over and over and nothing changes about anything
What kind of logic is that
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
They're apparently working on porting FSR4 to RDNA 3. They're not promising it'll become a thing, but they're working hard (according to AMD) on making it happen.
mockingbird-@reddit
...and how did you determine this?
Sevastous-of-Caria@reddit
899 US for the cheapest 5070ti? Hooly biscuits.
Aimhere2k@reddit
Yup. Been watching for months. Only the higher-end models (slight overclocks, RGB lighting, fancier cooling, etc.) are ever available, while the basic $750 MSRP models (little/no overclocks) are Unobtanium.
I worked out the math, the available cards give something like a 2% performance boost while costing 30% more. Just not worth it.
I finally gave up and bought a 5070 (base, no "Ti") instead.
diabetic_debate@reddit
I got my PNY 5070ti OC two weeks ago from bestbuy for $750 without waiting for days. They are out there if you wait a little bit for stock to drop.
Sevastous-of-Caria@reddit
5070 and 9070 non xts are the ones to eye for. 5070s reputation is deservedly in the toilet so under msrp and obtainable. Other is a great value too but if foundnon stock on a good price
21524518@reddit
On Amazon I see at least one variant listed for $839, and I know Microcenter isn't available for everyone in the US but there has been pretty consistent stock on a few models from $834-849 for the past few weeks at my local store.
SherbertExisting3509@reddit
The 9070XT over a 16-game sample is now 3% faster than the 5070ti
9070XT performance improved by 6% with 4 months of driver updates.
an_angry_Moose@reddit
Nice to see that both improved, but seeing the 9070 XT leapfrog is pretty wild. Now you just trade a bit of clarity in terms of DLSS/FSR and a bit of raytracing, but I for one would strongly consider going AMD on this.
GrayDaysGoAway@reddit
I'd argue it's a lot more than just a bit of a trade off on both of those. AMD's made a lot of progress on their ray tracing and upscaling, but is still roughly an entire generation behind Nvidia on both fronts.
Numerous_Row_7533@reddit
Ray tracing sure, but for upscaling I feel its more like half a generation behind.
an_angry_Moose@reddit
For sure, I wouldn’t argue that there is parity, just that the gap is closing. I’m curious how the follow up generation will play out, though we’re quite a ways out from that.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
This generation is something I'd dismiss as an /r/AyyMD pipe dream if I wasn't seeing it happen!
conquer69@reddit
It was 6% behind the 5070 ti and now it's 3% ahead. That's like... I don't know, I can't math but it's more than 6%.
amazingspiderlesbian@reddit
Only at 1440p at 4k nothing changed and they are still tied in this sample
Darksider123@reddit
That's impressive
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I did suspect the heavy overhaul of the arch would cause some perf issues in early drivers.
ThinkinBig@reddit
Was there any improvements to ray tracing or I guess no, since they avoided that in the video?
crshbndct@reddit
39% path tracing uplift in Portal RTX
Dangerman1337@reddit
Honestly wonder how a 128CU 9090 XT would be performing right now. Beating the 5090 in raster?
b_86@reddit
And likely being even more of a housefire hazard, it would have to be two 9070XT chips glued together basically, not worth it at this point.
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
I'm starting to second guess my decision not to upgrade my 7900XT to the 9070XT. Thought it would be too much of a side grade to be worth it, despite all the nice new features that I wanted. Now the performance makes it worth considering, at least if I can get a decent price for my 7900XT.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Wait for UDNA 1.
Devucis@reddit
im soon getting my 9070 XT pulse it arrives July 4 cant wait! im upgrading from 3070 also 5070 ti cost 300-400 more euro than 9070 XT wich cost me 830 euro
conquer69@reddit
Substantial games in path tracing too. 39% in portal rtx. https://www.pcgameshardware.de/Radeon-RX-9070-XT-Grafikkarte-281023/Tests/vs-RTX-5070-Ti-Treiber-Update-Benchmark-Test-1474379/
Still way behind nvidia but looks like we will have path tracing for the PS6 generation for sure.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Given that the redstone feature set is supposed to have emphasis there... more signs it's groundwork?
an_angry_Moose@reddit
Is redstone the code name for the follow up to the current RDNA4? Is it what will power next gen consoles?
conquer69@reddit
It's the name of the feature set that includes an AI denoiser like Nvidia's ray reconstruction which is needed to clean up ray tracing and path tracing. I think frame generation is in there too.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Software suite of various ML driven features such as ML powered enhancements to RT and PT.
an_angry_Moose@reddit
Thank you
ShadowRomeo@reddit
PS6 should have the Ray Tracing as the norm, it's already happening even with later period of current gen console. Path Tracing is still questionable though as even RDNA 4 is still far behind Nvidia RTX 40 series when it comes to Path Tracing workload.
Who knows what kind of improvement they might do on UDNA? But I hope that it is good enough though because I would like to see Path Tracing becoming standard as well the same way as what is happening with Ray Tracing right now.
Vb_33@reddit
Path Tracing isn't questionable there's no way the PS6 will be slower than a 2022 4070ti at Path Tracing in 2027 on N2 using UDNA. AMD is slow to catch up but not that slow. DF expects the PS6 to match the 4080 in PT capabilities and considering the advantages UDNA will have over RDNA4 and AMDs claimed focus on PT performance improvements it is definitely within reach.
Make no mistake even if the PS6 has RTX 4070 level PT it would still feature PT in games. The 4070 can run all PT games reasonably well as long as you keep VRAM in check.
ThinVast@reddit
based on the fact that ps5 pro is 2x faster than ps5 which was 2x faster than ps4 pro, the ps6 should be around 5070ti-5080 levels of performance.
dabias@reddit
Sony themself claim the PS5 Pro is only 45% faster than the PS5. I expect the PS6 to aim for 2x faster than the base PS5.
Frexxia@reddit
If AMD wants to catch up with Nvidia in market share they need to get away from the whole "fine wine" thing. If it's possible to gain this much through driver updates there's something very wrong with the launch drivers.
Drakthul@reddit
A 9% improvement isn’t far off Nvidias improvement from 4000 to 5000 series.
What a strange time for hardware.
amazingspiderlesbian@reddit
Its a bigger improvement than most amd 6000-7000 models.
6650xt - 7600xt 6750xt -7700xt and 6800xt to 7800xt
fatso486@reddit
If you consider the number of cuda core differnce between ADA and GB GPUs, AMD achieved more with software than what nvidia did with hardware
Jeep-Eep@reddit
It's like something back from the late 2000s or something, when Radeon was ATI.
TheCatOfWar@reddit
9% faster than launch is no joke. And some of the individual games are 20+% That's like more than the difference between a base model and an overclocked one.
TwoCylToilet@reddit
20% can easily justify an XT and non XT or Super and Ti upgrade imo.
Ar0ndight@reddit
Ideally we would get that performance from day 1 to avoid the whole "should I get this card over another, gambling on finewine kicking in down the line or not?" thing, but it's still a win especially when the competition's drivers have been so damn bad lately
DerpSenpai@reddit
If graphics drivers were easy to get right, we would have more than Intel,AMD and Nvidia on GPUs. Just look at QC atrocious drivers
Jeep-Eep@reddit
If you believe the 'Team Green driver devs took a look at the AI BS being yammered about by management, blanched and cashed their chips while the going was good' theory as to why, nVidia won't have this driver shit locked down until the 7k series as that's probably how long it will take for the replacements to get their eye in, and the old consistent edge in drivers is probably gone for good - it's gonna be a generational swap back and forth who has the better launch drivers in future.
mockingbird-@reddit
Radeon RX 9070 XT improved by almost 30% in Marvel’s Spider-Man Remastered
an_angry_Moose@reddit
Pretty wild how big some improvements are over others.
TheCatOfWar@reddit
Yeah, that's really great to see. 169 -> 214fps, so not like it ran poorly before but now it runs circles around the 5070 Ti
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I suspect again that some features shipped only barely or not running at all, and that this is a side effect of getting ready for Redstone.
TheCatOfWar@reddit
Thing is I remember the 9070 release was quite delayed. It was originally slated for january but didn't end up releasing till march. If this was driver issues at launch I wonder if that played a part in the delay, not just their reaction to Nvidia's 5000 series
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I think they were indeed trying to avoid stock issues (underestimating how badly nVidia would beef it), but more time to fix the drivers was a side benefit.
conquer69@reddit
Plus the 10% extra from an overclock. Easily clears out the 4080 super. If only it was available at msrp.
grumpyhusky@reddit
do the improvements also apply to the 9070 non-xt? logically it should
mockingbird-@reddit
obviously
Noble00_@reddit
CS2 performance on RDNA4 was a disappointment, nice to see it has been resolved though I'd like to see more outlets corroborate this
mockingbird-@reddit
NVIDIA also had to release an update to fix Blackwell's performance in Counter-Strike 2.
Something is up with that game.
NGGKroze@reddit
I would wait for 5070Ti 24GB (allegedly) which will be superior buy if the MSRP stays the same.
awr90@reddit
You are dreaming if you think a 24GB super is gonna be same msrp lol
Gambler_720@reddit
Why? Last gen Nvidia bumped the 4070 Ti from 12GB to 16GB at the same MSRP. They are not gonna price the 5070 Ti above a 5080 so there isn't much room to play here price wise.
In general Nvidia's mid cycle refreshes have actually been pretty good value. All 3 cards last gen brought something exciting to the table in terms of value.
awr90@reddit
Because this gen had tarrifs to deal with. The super cards are always slower than the ti counterparts so what value will a slower 5070 ti with more vram really bring?
Gambler_720@reddit
This isn't going to be a 5070 Super. It could be 5070 Ti Super or simply a 5070 Ti with more VRAM. Nvidia isn't going to release a 24GB card that is slower than the 5070 Ti.
awr90@reddit
It’ll be a super card.
Gambler_720@reddit
So it would simply be called the 5070 Ti Super
awr90@reddit
There’s no place for a 70 ti super model this gen becuase 5070 ti and 5080 are so close. You couldn’t have a 24GB ti super beat 5080s….its going to be a 5070 super so a high binned 5070 with 3GB modules of vram,
Strazdas1@reddit
the super cards will be using 3GB memory modules so it will be a cheap upgrade for Nvidia.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I dunno, with how this vintage is aging, nVidia may have to limit the chicanery.
conquer69@reddit
That would be sweet for blender.
Framed-Photo@reddit
Last rumour I heard was early next year lol. If you're at the point of being able to wait 8 months for an extra 8gb of vram at the same performance tier, then you probably didn't need to upgrade that badly anyways haha.
Ok-Strain4214@reddit
its irrelevant if the price is 50-100$ discount only, they are single digit marketshare
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I was calling RDNA 4 and Ada objectively better arches on grounds of manufacturability and BOM cost effect, this is just plain hilarious.
SpinachFlinger@reddit
I am really not looking forward to the day I need to upgrade.
noiserr@reddit
The market is totally fine right now. You can get most GPUs people buy for MSRP.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
How is this a bad sign? You'll have great options from both, or all 3 players when that puppy finally has had enough.
Suspicious_Put_3446@reddit
Shit by then you’ll be able to get a 9070xt for quite cheap, though it may not be a huge upgrade relative to the 3080.
Gold_Soil@reddit
I don't consider it fine wine when the product was recently released.
This just means the initial drivers were poorly optimized.
OftenSarcastic@reddit
So the cheapest 9070 XT in stock here is now 1.7% below the launch MSRP or 7.7% above a 600 USD MSRP at today's exchange rates, so I guess +9%/+4% performance is something to even out the performance/price value.
neutralpoliticsbot@reddit
Damn I just bought 5070ti if I saw this I would have bought the 9070 xt
NeroClaudius199907@reddit
Average price of 5 lowest 70ti is $1030 and 9070xt is $765 lmao.
Oh dear rip to people waiting for 24gb refresh. "You gon pay today"
Wonderful-Lack3846@reddit
Prices are different everywhere.
I bought the 5070 ti because the price difference with 9070 XT was small (€80)
Otherwise I would have 9070 XT now
GoatStimulator_@reddit
80 pounds is a big difference for an inferior card
Wonderful-Lack3846@reddit
Inferior :D ok dude
mockingbird-@reddit
You have to take the drivers into account when evaluating the video card.
Wonderful-Lack3846@reddit
You are right. I was indeed skeptical about that too.
But I did not face any issues with the drivers. And if I did, I would have returned it.
mockingbird-@reddit
I originally got the GeForce RTX 5070 Ti.
It black screened every single time the PC came back from sleep.
Wonderful-Lack3846@reddit
As did many people. But for some people, including me, such problem has not occurred.
I relied on my 30 day return period if such a case would happen. But 3 months later it is still doing fine for me, so did not need it.
Of course I still see drivers in AMD as a plus point over Nvidia if I have to say so, referring to the amount of complaints people have on the Nvidia side
NeroClaudius199907@reddit
This is interesting at current situation advantages & disadvantages. Whats the most you'll pay for 5070ti over 9070xt?
Wonderful-Lack3846@reddit
I think for most people, at a €100 price difference it is fair to swing both directions
But me personally I see having Nvidia features (DLSS 4 + CUDA + bit more RT perf) as a valuable selling point. So probably at >€125
Logical-Database4510@reddit
Plus, NV GPUs hold their value quite well and are supported much longer.
Alive_Worth_2032@reddit
Yep, if you sell your card when you replace it you get most of the premium back anyway.
UtopiaInTheSky@reddit
If Nvidia did this, they would only cover it for 10 seconds in their weekly Q&A video. They would call it a margin of error improvement and not worth a full video.
You know it's true.
GoatStimulator_@reddit
Show us where Nvidia had a 9% improvement in a single driver release and didn't make an announcement for it.
Is that what you tell the ladies when on a date? "It's within margin of error".
You're full of shit. You know it's true.
awr90@reddit
10% gains is nearly an entire GPU generation for nvidia now so no…
Default_Defect@reddit
Almost regretting my 4080 super purchase in November now that these prices are closer to sane...
XavandSo@reddit
I have zero regrets with my 4070 Ti Super purchase in early December. Remember, we were able to enjoy our cards for months before these launched and skipped the availability crisis. That alone gives any buyer's remorse for me pause.
Earthborn92@reddit
I bought a 4080 super about a month after launch. I honestly don’t regret it one bit, considering the 50 series and the state of the GPU market.
Managed to play stuff like AW2 and Cyberpunk path traced, which was very nice.
NeroClaudius199907@reddit
Time is money unless you hardly used it or paid like $1500+
Default_Defect@reddit
That's why its almost, bought it before the shit hit the fan and have gotten good use out of it. I'm just feeling a bit of "grass is always greener on the other side"
bylebog@reddit
I bought a 7900XTX in the same time frame. No regrets. Working great for me. These cards are going for more than I paid.
Professional-Tear996@reddit
Hmm aside from the PlayStation studios games where NVIDIA issues mainly stem from their OCD when it comes to enabling or disabling ReBar, it is good to see AMD's gains are most apparent in Unreal Engine games.
BananaFart96@reddit
OMG 4 more framez on average duh, HUGE AMD WIN lmao.
In all seriousness though, the increases are mostly in CPU bound titles where Nvidia has more overhead.
Big-Rip2640@reddit
Clickbait title .
In 4K, both cards average are similar in performance
Performensch@reddit
The card is on average 9% faster at 1440p and 4% at 4k.
So the title is completely factual and true.
If you rotten brain can't comprehend that and forces you to screech "Clickbait title" than there is something seriously wrong with you.
Big-Rip2640@reddit
What a nice and civilized way to argue with someone online even if you are right and he is wrong.
Performensch@reddit
You referring to yourself in the 3rd person now? I stand by my judgement.
Big-Rip2640@reddit
The title says ''The radeon 9070xt is now faster''.
If you pause the video at 13:20 on 4K average, both cards have similar performance.
Thanks for the insults though.
RealOxygen@reddit
9% improvement at 1440p (the more common res for this card) is an awesome uplift, what are you yapping about
Wonderful-Lack3846@reddit
I think 1440P is more relevant than 4K
And the title only said '9070 XT is now faster'. And since it's faster now than before, that's accurate
Wonderful-Lack3846@reddit
Nice, hopefull they keep improving