FAA leased tower on land, what’s its use?
Posted by GooseCull@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 95 comments
This tour has been on family land for a couple years, all I knew was that is was US gov operated. Recently they came and put signs up saying operated by FAA just curious on its full use
Dry_Statistician_688@reddit
Looks like a high speed microwave data link.
thyerex@reddit
It’s likely no longer being used. The big round things at the top are microwave dishes, so this is (was?) a relay station in a line of similar towers connecting 2 end points. There are still some networks that use point-to-point microwave systems, but most have been replaced by fiber optic cables.
I used to work for a company that occasionally be contacted to take down unused microwave towers for the FAA. It was a low budget priority for them, so the jobs were random instead of a coordinated effort to remove them all. We took FAA owned towers down in Georgia, North Carolina, Nebraska, and Illinois.
bottomfeeder52@reddit
chemtrail quality detection. basically these are placed throughout the country to monitor the quality of the air after chemtrail passings to determine their chemical make up and if more or less is needed.
BiggyShake@reddit
Chemtrail Guidance Beacon
OneEyeRick@reddit
We call these RCLR or RCLT. Radio Communication Link Repeater / Terminal.
It’s a backup to the wire / fiber line. Or in crazy geography areas it’s the primary with a separate RCLR as the backup.
No-Host8640@reddit
This guy/gal Tech-ops.
seraphim_9@reddit
Usually they’re repeaters. Usually a “control facility” somewhere controls “remote, offsite facilities” remotely thru radio signals.
These offsite facilities are connected into their internal network and controlled remotely, and these towers serve as repeaters that push and boost the signal from the control facility to these satellite facilities hundreds of miles away.
Enough-Landscape-897@reddit
There are two microwave dishes and two VSAT dishes. Hard to ascertain what those microwave or VSATs are being used for from a data perspective.
There are no cellular or V/UHF antennas (that I can see), so it's not being used for local mobile/radio comms.
Duct_TapeOrWD40@reddit
Yes, I can confirm it all. I worked in the telecommunication industry, and I see the same.
Probably part of a point-point microwave datalink.
wireknot@reddit
This, it is at least partly forming a data relay point. We have a couple in service to get a data path over a mountain. It was a reliable method before fiber was so.plentiful.
NassauTropicBird@reddit
Sure was! My old man was involved in the OG microwave network. https://99percentinvisible.org/article/vintage-skynet-atts-abandoned-long-lines-microwave-tower-network/
Somewhere I have a newspaper article, complete with corporate head shot, of another project he was involved in. It was a system where a retailer could call a number and verify that a check wouldn't bounce. "This is not science fiction, this is not in the future, this is today!"
It's laughable now, of course, but back then it was truly groundbreaking. And I suspect part of it was to get people to upgrade to phones with a touchpad instead of a dial.
Fun fact, kids: Once upon a time you couldn't own your phone. Your only option was to lease them from the Telco. Even Bombcast isn't that shitty with cable modems lol.
PlsChgMe@reddit
I lived about a mile from the Hillsboro, MO tower for 25 years until 2009. The locals warned about "rays" and called it The AT&T Tower or just The Tower. It's nice to finally know what it is/was.
Renomont@reddit
Name checks out for Telcom industry.
Duct_TapeOrWD40@reddit
It checks out for any industry.
Auronaitics may replace duct tape to Kapton tape, but WD40 already comes from rocket tech so it's universal.
cupofcoffey19@reddit
God I hate kapton tapw
NassauTropicBird@reddit
LOL, I thought it was a prank like sending out the new guy for some flight line or a bucket of steam.
My inner nerd (which ain't very inner) now wants a reason to need some.
Kapton tape, also known as polyimide tape, is a versatile material used for its unique properties in high-temperature and electrical applications. Its primary purposes include electrical insulation, heat protection, and masking during processes like soldering or painting. It's also widely used in 3D printing and the aerospace and automotive industries.
cupofcoffey19@reddit
Yeah look into some of the disasters caused by kapton tape
NassauTropicBird@reddit
I'll bet there are a kapton of them
cupofcoffey19@reddit
Well played internet stranger well played
NassauTropicBird@reddit
Thanks!
I'm on PTO, doing a "staycation," and been drinking bloodies all day while fixing my washer. I'm alternating between being productive and absurd.
/And melting in this Atlanta heat, my gawd
SemicolonGuitars@reddit
If it moves and it’s not supposed to: duct tape If it doesn’t move and it’s supposed to: WD40
The two most important parts of the engineering flowchart.
NassauTropicBird@reddit
Yep, def a data link.
My old man worked for AT&T in their Long Lines division. The OG microwave data network!
https://99percentinvisible.org/article/vintage-skynet-atts-abandoned-long-lines-microwave-tower-network/
Independent_Test_102@reddit
Maybe the FAA is doing high-frequency stock trading to front run the market and pay for ATC modernization.
tuliptrees@reddit
Where are you seeing VSAT antennas? This looks like four parabolic microwave antennas, with two shielded "drums" at the top and two unshielded dishes closer to the base of the mast. VSATs are going to point skyward.
I initially clicked thinking this might be an FAA RCO, but the type and positioning of antennas indicate that this is a relay of some sort. I agree that it's probably RML/RCL backbone.
jediwashington@reddit
It's probably part of the RML/RCL backbone of the FAA.
They connect the 22 main Air Route Traffic Control Centers - Denver being one. Radar and communications direct links are probably still sent via the microwaves or these serve as backups in the event of a network outage.
FAA was investigating some radio outages at Denver last month. It probably triggered an audit of all the local towers and a signage update.
b_squared130@reddit
Typically it is to send raw radar data from the radar site to the air traffic control facility.
globinXX@reddit
In another country here, we use microwave links as backup data connections.
All MLAT/WAAS/Voice COM/ADS-B I have seen uses different antennas.
FridayMcNight@reddit
Is the VSAT possibly part of a WAAS ground station? (no idea what they look like).
majoraloysius@reddit
It’s harder to lease towers in the air so they lease them on land.
Ric0chet_@reddit
The quickest way to find out how important it is, is to unplug it....
/s (this is totally sarcasm don't do that.)
ie-sudoroot@reddit
Scream tests are the best tests.
Malthasian@reddit
I believe the technical term is "Echolocation based testing"
NassauTropicBird@reddit
30 years in IT and this is the first time I've heard that expression.
I'll use it when I come back from PTO in a couple weeks.
/If I haven't been laid off, anyhow
Malthasian@reddit
I forget where I heard the expression, but it made me laugh and so I've started using it regularly.
NassauTropicBird@reddit
I genuinely wonder if you work for the same company I do.
"Unplug the server and we'll see if anyone screams." No? Fine, recycle it.
6 months later - "Hey, that server that handles that annual process required by the government isn't responding, can someone reboot it?"
GooseCull@reddit (OP)
I mean I can’t trespass my own land right 😂
pvtpile02@reddit
Hop the fence leave a note on the door. Site tech will call you. Keeping the land owner informed usually leads to a better relationship.
AresV92@reddit
FBI OPEN UP!
Ric0chet_@reddit
*FBI intensifies*
oestre24@reddit
This is how the Lost reboot starts I'm pretty sure
css555@reddit
https://imgflip.com/i/3mqw2u
PaddyMayonaise@reddit
That’s pretty badass.
“Yea, this random tower is on my family’s land, we don’t know what it is but the gov’t uses”
GooseCull@reddit (OP)
If they paying they can do whatever they want to 😂
nillodill@reddit
How much would that be?😶
GooseCull@reddit (OP)
Enough 🤣
20-4@reddit
The way I approach these conversations with my wife is it bracket them starting with ridiculous and working towards sane.
So, is it more than a million a year?
Awkward_Entertainer7@reddit
Probably never get an answer just the usual ambiguous “hurr durr it’s enough to live on 🤪”
NassauTropicBird@reddit
How much do you pay for rent?
How much was your car?
How much are your property taxes?
Probably never get an answer just the usual "it's really none of your fucking business."
Awkward_Entertainer7@reddit
lol wind your neck in dog
NassauTropicBird@reddit
lol try to be smart cat
drewroxx@reddit
Usually around 1k-2k a month
NassauTropicBird@reddit
Yep.
And i could live on that if i really had to, lol
QuinceDaPence@reddit
I can tell you a small unguyed cell tower pays the same in rent as a small-medium apartment in my area.
Downsides, that thing gets struck about 100 times with lightning every thunderstorm and it's loud as fuck in the middle of the night when that happens.
deviledegghead@reddit
A guy I used to know had a cell phone tower on his land. The owner of the tower paid him 900 dollars a month. This was 20 years ago though, since he died. I'm sure it's a lot more these days. I'd imagine that tower in the pictures to pay a lot more since it has guy wires meaning that it takes up a lot more real estate compared to a cell tower.
Malcolm2theRescue@reddit
Why only guy wires and no “gal” wires? I see a discrimination lawsuit here.
Maf1909@reddit
We're probably getting screwed, but they're installing one on my land for $400/mo, with an extra $200/mo for every service added. And a couple percent increase every year for 50 years.
It's going in some pretty soggy land that we only cut hay on, and at most we get a couple bales a year off it. So $4800/year is a hell of a lot more for that acre of land than I'd get by continuing to farm it.
Sensitive-Tone5279@reddit
There's an entire cottage industry of tower buyers and sellers out there who may approach you about the lease. The existing model is for smaller companies to erect the towers, package them, and sign them to larger REITs like Crown, ATC, or SBA.
Unless owned by one of those 3, there's a good chance it will be sold in <3 years in which case you may be able to re-negotiate the lease. Tower leases are INCREDIBLY lucrative for the company that owns the asset. The business model has payback at around 18 months and every time someone touches the tower, it re-sets the lease another 15-20 years.
Source: 18 years in the Telecom industry.
Maf1909@reddit
interesting, thanks for the info! I'm not terribly concerned with the money, since it's more in a month than that acre of land makes in a year, but it's good to know there's a potential for more if it gets sold.
YogurtclosetDull2380@reddit
That's a really weird attitude to have. Js
Icy_Huckleberry_8049@reddit
to contact the aliens
GooseCull@reddit (OP)
Makes sense we’re right by KDEN
ISaidRightTurns@reddit
That the one off Hwy 7?
GooseCull@reddit (OP)
Could be 👀
ISaidRightTurns@reddit
Haha well could be if you drew a line between Denver ARTCC and Denver TRACON that'd be about in the middle. It's called an RCLR.
andylikescandy@reddit
Wasn't there a land-based alternative to GPS that was taken down, and was being resurrected?
Neo1331@reddit
Probably data/coms traffic relay?
nighthawke75@reddit
Check the FCC antenna structure registration. It should feed you some information on the tower's ownership.
anonymouslosername@reddit
Along with this, I also have https://www.antennasearch.com/index.php in my favorites.
Hockey32r@reddit
Some off the centers have their radar feeds use these. That would be my guess.
CAD007@reddit
“Recently they came and put signs up saying operated by FAA”
Translation:
This tower is being used by the .gov, but it’s not the FAA.
ADudeandHisDog@reddit
The Big Dipper!
browngrass1@reddit
Microwave back haul
dennhel@reddit
Maybe an old vlf antenna for the old omega service?
TheOzarkWizard@reddit
In Telecom, those types of dishes are used as backhaul connections, or your data link (typically in spots where either you can't get a fiber optic buried).
TheLuftwaffel@reddit
I can’t fully see what’s at the top of the tower other than the repeaters, but this is most likely just data as others have mentioned. It could be anything sent over it, like ADS-B/MLAT or a backup link for an offsite radar like TDWR. Impossible to say without more information. If you’re incredibly bored you could figure out the general direction the antennas are pointed and draw a line on a map.
Own-Injury-1816@reddit
Internet/VPN/Other data services with regards to connectivity/data transfer.
It would indicate a backup link for an HQ, Data center or some other important entity they needs 99.9% uptime reliability.
sdgunz@reddit
Looks like an ADS-B ground station.
Transmits weather, air traffic and other information to pilots in flight.
N2DPSKY@reddit
It's not ADS-B. Those are microwave links, probably ARTCC.
er1catwork@reddit
Def not ADSB, and def point to point microwave. I see two separate runs… ARTCC would be my guess as well.
GooseCull@reddit (OP)
Oh sweet, I have my PPL and almost IR just unfamiliar with what the ground based stuff actually looks like
friedrice33@reddit
So you’re the reason they keep losing comms at EWR.
tierschat@reddit
Just a Point to Point Link prop some Kind of Data link
YuutaW@reddit
Looks like a LF / HF tower ... is it a NDB?
wosmo@reddit
two dishes is almost always just a relay. Each dish will be pointing at another site, where the two sites didn't have direct line-of-sight with each other (and those sites may also be relays).
Microwave is very line-of-sight, so this (or satellites) is the only way to establish a link over any significant distance(/geography).
aitorbk@reddit
Agree. I used to work with inventory and signal calculations for microwave transmission towers, and not only LOS matters but ground clutter and reflections matter, including if it is grass, rocks, urban... The worst being urban.
This looks like the tower has two different connections.
LostPilot517@reddit
NDB is usually 2 telephone poles with a wire between them.
Those look like Microwave antennas, so it is probably a comms backhaul, like a repeater station. I expect this is just a midpoint relay to some remote transmitter/receiver, this location may itself contain a VHF transmitter/receiver and the ability to carry other information through it.
I am not an expert, but my best understanding. A daytime photo of the entire structure and area and of and additional antennas would be helpful. Its exact location would be also helpful, but I understand for privacy op probably doesn't want to share that.
CarrotWaxer69@reddit
It’s a datalink (signal relay) of some kind. These antennas are directional so if you figure out where they are pointing at, which is probably a similar tower, and then figure out where the antennas in the next tower is pointing and so on and figure out where the link ends you could get a clue.
aitorbk@reddit
And you can do that with google earth, at least to the next one.
tilmanbaumann@reddit
The main thing seems to be a microwave repeater station. (The big horns on the top)
But there is more going on.
Bloke012@reddit
Be careful it doesn’t turn your frogs gay
ApolloWasMurdered@reddit
Looks like it’s just a microwave repeater.
IndyCarFAN27@reddit
Looks kinda like a number station.
Wingnut150@reddit
No, it kinda doesn't.
place909@reddit
Have you tried phoning them?
gnartato@reddit
r/longlines