Don't want 50mph, want 150 mi range
Posted by pourme2@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 261 comments
Instead of making bikes that go 50 mph, why won't they make bikes that can actually get 150 miles.
I would trade speed for range all day.
We like to ride paths and trails. 50mph is insane on the paths. Wallke seems to be the only ones making truly long range bikes, but their quality is too questionable.
If the ebike sellers would focusing on range instead, it would open up so many more adventures.
Wildmanzilla@reddit
If your riding slow, your going to get more range on any bike. Those batteries are designed for ripping around on. But if you aren't ripping around, going slow instead, that battery is going to take you further.
ccgarnaal@reddit
Because batteries are expensive. Making a bike go 50mph instead of 25mph is a 300usd motor.
Making a bike drive 150mi is a 2000 USD battery.
(I have made my own)
Also big batteries are heavy. I use to run a 3000Wh battery on my cargo bike. And now switched to a 1400wh one for zipping across town. And adding the 3000wh as extra when I bike to another city.
Mysterious_Bass6202@reddit
Easy soltution for that one. Use a geared hub motor (Bafang, Shengyi, Aikema), 48V for best efficiency. Then only apply as much power to sustain your desired speed. If required get a higher density (Wh) or larger battery. That's the best you can do. This bike will have an optimum speed to achieve high distance, probably around 25-30 km/h. I found that pedalling even lightly increases the range noticably. I get a good 20-30% better range from this setup than with mid drive motors all else being equal.
Nice_Database_9684@reddit
Great post, but I think you’re mistaken about the optimal speed. On an electric motor it’ll always be the lowest speed that gets you the most range. It isn’t like an ICE engine where MPG peaks around 50 mph and falls off on both sides.
The slower you go, the more range you’ll have. Of course it does become impractical at some point.
Mysterious_Bass6202@reddit
You hit the mark on both points. Too slow, you might as well push the bike and go forever. I regard 25km as a minimum practiacl speed on the flat.
waterformysoul@reddit
You need more links in that chain
Mysterious_Bass6202@reddit
It's just fine, the old Deore has lame springs.
Simple_Priority2103@reddit
Understood, but you can’t beat mid-drives for the torque they generate for climbing.
Mysterious_Bass6202@reddit
Correct. But the quest is for economy = distance.
Remote-Citron-9383@reddit
Not knocking you on this but hub motors with gears use them less efficiently than mid motors and unless your journey is on flat terrain, mid motors use it's power more efficiency with less energy used vs hub, you've missed the most important feature on motors and that's torque sensing, something that's lacking in hub motors, torque sensing mid drives are the most energy efficient motors. Btw your derailleur position doesn't look right in that photo.
abagofcells@reddit
Depending on riding style, I believe he's right about geared hub motors having a slightly better efficiency. I have two very similar converted MTBs, one has a 500w Mxus geared hub with a Kunteng controller, the other a 750w Bafang BBS02 middrive. My 24 km commute averages to about 45 minutes on both bikes, putting the average speed at 32 kph, but power usage for the full 48 km round trip is around 600 wh for the hub motor and 700 wh for the middrive. There are a few differences between the bikes, like the middrive has panniers, different tires and the hub running at 52 v while the middrive uses a 48 v battery, but I'm not sure it's enough to make up for the difference, and weight and rider position is very similar. I'm not sure what actually causes the difference, and this is all just anecdotal evidence from me, trying to tune the efficiency of my bikes.
Overall, I just find the hub more pleasant for commuting, as I don't need to pay as much attention to shifting gears, and riding it just feels more fluent. For joy rides, however, the middrive is the clear winner.
Remote-Citron-9383@reddit
The hub is fine in general on mostly flat terrain and i'd say if your hub is sufficient torque small degrees on hills but when you mix in hills the hub uses almost twice the wattage to climb, I used hub motors but didn't like them, when they make ones with thru axles I might dip my toes and try again, the major plus of hub for me was if you had a chain break you could still throttle and ride. One thing is for sure ebikes are very much a preference.
Elu5ive_@reddit
Grin makes a through axle direct drive motor.
Michael_Borowski@reddit
I just finished building my bike with Grins Fat45 and Phaserunner V6. It's an amazing combo with a 72v battery. More of a moped than an e bike though. His torque sensing and PAS inside the motor works better than anything I've tried so far.
Remote-Citron-9383@reddit
Cheers I'll have a look, I really hate servicing qr axles, thru axles all the way😀
stormdelta@reddit
I have that one (All-Axle V3), it's pretty nice albeit more expensive.
Through-axle, and they sell adapters/spacers for various dropout widths
Torque sensor built-in
Waterproof plugs
Far and away the best and easiest to disconnect torque arm, it's just a single 4mm allen bolt and the arm slides right out
Lighter than equivalent direct drive motors
Remote-Citron-9383@reddit
Yes I went on the site and the list of add-ons made me cry lol I was getting up to nearly £900, thing is, I like my mid drives most not just the thru axle but also the rim choice, that said, it's one for the future consideration if I sell my bbshd's.
abagofcells@reddit
Thanks. My commute is admittedly pretty flat. What really made me dig into this, is that I had read all the claims a middrive would be more efficient, but when I finally build one, the numbers just didn't add up, and I had to figure out why. I've been switching bikes pretty much every day for a month or so, first getting the commute take the same amount of time, and then taking notes about how much power my charger reports going into the battery while charging back up, but I'm still not sure about the why.
I think it could maybe be things like the middrive drawing higher currents in short bursts, leading to bigger losses in wires and battery, or maybe that the middrive is more efficient at a higher cadence than I like to pedal. Or maybe because the middrive takes me a bit faster up the hills, at a higher power expense, while the hub motor runs a bit faster on flat terrain. Or it may just be that the higher cadence the middrive likes to run at makes me output less power through pedaling, without me realising, because it feels like I'm doing equal amounts of work.
Alright, time to build an Arduino based power meter with GPS for logging power, speed, elevation and some sort of biometric sensor that can give some useful data about that weird meat based machine that is me 😆
Agitated-Country-969@reddit
The main advantage of the mid-drive is the variability when you have hills or hills and flats. Even if they were equal the hub drive would be a better choice considered you need to stop pedaling when shifting for a mid-drive.
Remote-Citron-9383@reddit
Just remember you had two different powered motors 500w vs 750w so the mid drive will draw more amps and use more watts unless you program it to use less, then even with same motor you need to have the pas settings use same current and speed %
abagofcells@reddit
I've set the PAS levels so that the max speed and wattage on flat road is pretty much the same for both bikes, but the middrive peaks at much higher currents when starting from a full stop or going up hills.
As I'm getting the same average speed over long distances, I think looking at total power consumption for that exact commute makes sense when comparing them.
pdindetroit@reddit
I think a better comparison could be made with the same battery and just switch it between bikes.
abagofcells@reddit
I know, but my batteries are DIY and housed in one of those nylon frame bags, and pretty hard to move around. But maybe I could figure out how to mount a cadence sensor to the middrive, and put both motors on one bike. Strictly for scientific reasons...
Mysterious_Bass6202@reddit
Absolutely! For fun rides, tracks etc I pick my BBSHD in adual suspension frame. HD has oodles of power and climbs steeper than I care to walk. But for chores in town nothing beats the simplicity and economy of my Shengyi 500W rear hubby.
Basboy@reddit
No input regarding the efficiencies of the different motors but I just wanted to also echo your thoughts on how you use your hub vs mid drive.
When going longer distances for commuting or just to get stuff done I will choose my hub motor because of its speed without requirement of any effort while I enjoy the experience and feel of mid drive a lot more.
stormdelta@reddit
This is one of those "it depends" things. If you're dealing with a lot of moderate hills, you're 100% correct. And geared hubs usually can't handle extended steep inclines at all due to overheating issues.
But on flatter terrain, the geared hub can often operate at higher RPM vs torque than being on the crank end, giving it a small edge, and low power geared hubs can be lighter than a mid-drive setup.
It's possible a geared hub with regen might do better on moderate hills than a mid-drive, but I've never tested that and AFAIK the only motor like that is Grin's GMAC since most other geared hubs have a freewheel.
While it's less common in hub motors, there is no reason you can't have torque sensors on hubs and many do, including mine.
Remote-Citron-9383@reddit
upvoted, great detailed response, cheers! I agree and don't get me wrong, hub motors are really decent on flat terrain, I think this might be my biased view as I had a bad experience over with hub motors lol
Elu5ive_@reddit
You can get torque sensing bottom brackets with hub motors,
Have you measured hub motor vs mid drive efficiency?
Hub motors are slightly more efficient from my testing using a vesc to measure energy used per mile. Bbshd vs g062 1000 watt hub.
And the hill climbing argument... nothing a more powerful controller can't fix. (I push 4500 watts through a g062)
Mysterious_Bass6202@reddit
You are not correct, mostly. Read my statement more carefully. I'm happy with the functioning of my very ancient Deore derailleur, it's using all its range, that's all.
pvirushunter@reddit
Isn't this like using mid drive in eco mode and switching to normal or high when needed?
No different than switching the motors on/off on my mid as long as you stop pedaling you can do it on the fly
It's like those cars that turn off when they stop and turn on as you press the gas.
whatshouldwecallme@reddit
You can get torque sensing hubs, there are plenty of them out there. Conversely, this sub’s favorite mid-drive conversion is just cadence sensing.
The torque vs cadence is a controller thing, not a motor thing.
timonix@reddit
My bike looks very similar to this, I get a range of about 40km miles when going 25km/h. But slowing down just a bit to 22km/h increases the range to 80km.
When biking with my SO who has a normal bike. The average speed is closer to 18km/h. I have no idea what the range is at that speed. Because at that point almost all power comes from the pedals. So it's more a case of counting hills than counting distance
ogstreetbeef@reddit
What is 40km miles? 😂 km and miles are two different measurements
Financial_Mushroom83@reddit
Probably 25 miles or 40km
timonix@reddit
40 imperial kilometers duuh
Hidden-Sky@reddit
A 40km mile is a mile that takes 40km to complete.
gammaglobe@reddit
Makes sense
Mysterious_Bass6202@reddit
You figured out the magic (physics): distance and speed relate disproportionally. The slower you go the further you get. On the flat with no wind you cruize at 18km/h with a pedal input of about 50 Watt. This is a normal human's continous ability. I use no cadence trigger or torque trigger, only a throttle that allows temporay input when required.
VerifiedStupidity@reddit
Hmmmm with your numbers, I would be inclined to believe that mid drive is muuuuuuuuch more efficient than geared hub motor. I can do 100km easily on flat terrain with my mid-drive 36v E-MTB. The bike is heavy, has knobby tires, and is full suspension…. If you used the exact same setup on a road bike I would be interested to see how far you could go. Probably over 150km and then if you increased the battery size, probably could get to that magical 150 miles.
itsjustpie@reddit
My Engwe m20 is a geared hub motor and it gets 94 miles / 150 km. I feel the upgraded battery that makes that range possible would be too big for a road bike, though.
VerifiedStupidity@reddit
That’s pretty amazing! Hmmm yeah probably would need a special frame that is more durable. A gravel bike frame might be a good option. Those things are tough!
boostedjoose@reddit
The most important part is tire pressure
a few psi will cost miles
IM_OK_AMA@reddit
This is true and it's why, all other things equal, you won't actually get any more range with a mid drive than a hub drive.
It takes a certain number of watt-hours to push you and your bike at a given speed for 1 mile. The required watt-hours goes up if you go faster because wind resistance increases, but if the speed remains fixed it doesn't matter where the watts are coming into the system it will still take that amount.
The mid drive lets you take your watts and decide how much torque and how much RPM you want, which is great for climbing or top speed, but it's still the same amount of watts to go a given distance at a given speed no matter what gear you're in.
CryptographerOwn84@reddit
Your wife must be scared with talk like that, if you ever get into an argument she will properly get charged for domestic violence.
wgilrq@reddit
Your assumptions are rooted in gas engines which are most efficient at wide open throttle, therefore powerful engines are inefficient when going slowly. EV efficiency is largely independent from peak power, a 1500W motor is about as efficient as a 100W motor when outputting 100W. So it's mostly battery capacity that is the tradeoff here not top speed. Sure, a bike that can go 50 MPH may be less efficient due to bigger tires or whatever but it's the big heavy battery for 150 miles of range that would make your bike worse for any rides that need less range due to the enormous mass of the pack. 150 miles may need a 5 kwh pack, which would weigh about 70 lbs on its own.
Michael_Borowski@reddit
For city riding I don't care about range over 30 miles, but my 48v 30ah battery lasted a week on 1 charge with traveling 30 miles each day. I started building my own batteries. But the way I see it, once you get used to having a bike that goes faster than 20 mph you'll never go back. And the same goes with higher torque motors. I'd take power over range and just wear a backpack with a large battery to cover more range.
Anon_IE_Mouse@reddit
you can get that with the 50mph bikes. Honestly, high Voltage helps because you get some efficiency gains. Just get an overpowered E-bike and go regular e-bike speeds, you'll get 150 miles no problem.
texxasmike94588@reddit
A faster motor is an easy hurdle to engineer. Going longer distances means you need more stored energy, and additional batteries add weight plus higher costs.
Desperate-Evening363@reddit
You can improve your range by upgrading your batteries.
Usual-Cucumber-2914@reddit
You do realize that just because a bike can go 50 mph, doesn't mean you have to right? Aniioki bikes will go 150 mph if you aren't using full peddle assist or throttle
Similar-Lie-5439@reddit
Yes, but to be bike path legal it’s around 20mph max speed the bike can go…
xjx546@reddit
Just find the app or setting where you can restrict the controller to whatever wattage/MPH is legal in your area if you are that worried about it.
Zestyclose-Virus9421@reddit
You're not really going to have any problems if you're riding the bike responsibly and respectfully, at least as of now.
Live-Concert6624@reddit
150 miles? not mph.
xjx546@reddit
There is no "trade", riding a high power bike slow is just as efficient as riding a slow bike slow.
Put street tires on an eMTB, drop in a 72v battery and keep it at 10-15 MPH and it will do 100+ miles of range all day long
MrKamikazi@reddit
It would be a really niche product but it would be good. An ebike with a real 150 mile range at a sustained speed of 18-20 mph (or 15 in hills) would open up some bike camping possibilities by removing the need to recharge at the camp site every single day.
Tight-War-8013@reddit
They exist. No one buys them. Expensive and pointless. Just buy a spare battery.
1WonderLand_Alice@reddit
Your not the only one with this dream my friend. I’d take a top assisted speed of 20mph and 150mile range over full throttle 50+mph 20mile range any day. Unfortunately they’re trying to appeal to the adrenaline junkies not the explorers.
Tight-War-8013@reddit
Getting speed is simple. Getting range is not. All the motors can dump 1.5kw whenever they feel like it on 48v. They cant “add AH” for free. It costs weight and redesign because of weight, and then batteries are the most expensive part.
WhereasJazzlike@reddit
Nobody wants to sit on a bicycle seat that long. 80 miles would be most people's limit
Laserdollarz@reddit
Just go slow
JanewayForPresident@reddit
This is the answer.
Big batteries + slow speed + pedaling = great range.
We already have bikes with big batteries.
Even just at 18mph, like 80% of the work is going into fighting air resistance. So if you are willing to go 12-15mph, you don’t need to change anything else about the bike. If you want to go 20mph+, changing the motor won’t matter. Sure, narrower high pressure tires would help, as would overall aerodynamic design. But they can’t fix the fundamental issue that you’re dumping the vast majority of the energy into fighting air resistance, and the only solution (besides slowing down) is carrying massive battery capacity.
Tight-War-8013@reddit
You are not fighting 80% air resistance until after 30mph. It is an exponential curve, and it’s really not until about 40 that all other factors become irrelevant. Weight is most important for 99% of legal bike riding.
wild_eep@reddit
Or some kind of fairing.
JanewayForPresident@reddit
Yeah, and a recumbent design would help too. But it’s going to be something like “I used to get 50 miles at 20mph, now I can get 50 miles at 22mph, or 60 miles at 20mph.” Maybe it’s a bigger effect than that, but still.. if your priority is range, then slowing down is still the single biggest thing you can do.
Like with or without the fairing, if you drop from 20 to 15mph, you could conceivably double your range. I don’t have the stats on hand, but’s it that level of effect.
I hope I’m not sounding pedantic about this, but I saw this post and so many people are talking about which motors are best, or acting like we have high speed bikes instead of long range bikes because they are more marketable.. but speed is such a big factor that nothing else comes close. And after you do slow down, battery size is next on the list of factors, which the high speed bikes generally have moreso than the slower ones.
Wooble57@reddit
because speed appeals to people more than range most of the time, and because batteries are more expensive than more powerful motors\controllers.
There just aren't that many people who want\need such a long range on a ebike.
It's not terribly hard to diy a ebike, and you can easily add as many batteries as you like to get range.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
A 2100 watt hour battery set up is well capable of 150 miles (Wired) with the right set up. Smaller motors, lighter frame. But instead, it's 45 miles/hr and 80 mile range, with a super heavy frame to handle the high wattage motor
Tight-War-8013@reddit
Then they just are doing it wrong. A high watt motor does not need a high strength frame. A large battery does. I got 42mph out of a tiny skateboard motor. 1000w motor compared to 2000w has a difference of only a kilo, but 20a compared to 10a battery is double the weight.
NegotiationGlobal480@reddit
there are ebikes that can do 72v80ah
ssmakx@reddit
100% agree More range anyday over speed After getting an ebike I actually have slowed down quite a bit Trying to just enjoy the experience rather than go all out and speed
Tight-War-8013@reddit
Speed is cheap, range is expensive. Changing top speed is as easy as changing a thermostat. Changing range is improving-battery, frame, bms, and charger.
Tight-War-8013@reddit
Speed is 100000% optional. A 150 mi range bike could go 50mph easily though. But thats not gonna sell for as much if they limit it. Range is all battery and operator, the motor efficiency is a rounding error. Just give me regen braking and im good.
zeptyk@reddit
why not pedal atp man💔💔 better off getting fit if you're gonna take the time to do such distances
but I do kinda agree, I wish the displays of every single ebike would allow for a wattage limit so that you can have both range or speed if you wanted
and with that, why not add fast charging for on the go? im sick of everything being limited to 2a, and 8a for big battery bikes, none of us want to sit at a ev charging station for 6hrs
gripninja@reddit
Lectric Xpedition dual battery is rated for 170 miles... ElectricSportsCompany.com Were located in brooklyn if your near nyc you can come down and take it for a test ride... Or give us a call 1 866 485 3223
pourme2@reddit (OP)
Thank you, unfortunately I'm in the Midwest
Real_Championship541@reddit
You can have speed and distance of up to 200 miles with this:
Eahora Romeo Pro II, featuring the 52V dual-motor riding system and 203mm 2-piston hydraulic brakes, delivers an unmatched thrill for adventurous riding and conquering over 200 miles confidently.
They make good bikes.
bbshdbbs02@reddit
You’d need 4kwh of battery capacity and even then you’d only reach 150 miles if the whole ride was done at 20mph or less. Until we can figure out how to cram more energy into the same sized batteries I’m afraid it’s the laws of physics stopping your dream bike from being made.
catboy519@reddit
What a coincidence my bike cruises about 19mph
The math roughly checks out,, my 576wh gets me only 30 miles reliably.
_WeSellBlankets_@reddit
I just stumbled in here from popular, but am I way off base in thinking that they're unrelated? How far you can go is going to be dependent on the weight of the bike and the size of the battery, etc. How fast you can go pretty much depends on how much power they allow you to draw from the battery at any point in time. So making a bike that goes faster allows the user to decide if their preference is speed or distance, but the manufacturer isn't making that trade off. Let's say a bike was designed that could go 50 miles per hour. You would be able to drive it further going 30 mph. The manufacturer could cap the speed at 30 mph so people would feel like they're getting more distance, but if you were voluntarily doing 30 anyways, you'd see no difference.
catboy519@reddit
Range are speed are related to eachother.
You can save alot of battery by going 10mph but then you are really not going to get 150 miles within one day or even within a reasonable amount of time.
The flaw of ebikes is that they often come with small batteries. It seems like ebike manufacturers only design ebikes for people who are happy with short range, and they don't care much about the smaller group of people who want decent range.
But come on, 50 mph? Thats motorcycle. I think electric motorbikes can easily get 150 miles of range if you just slow down a little.
NoLegsLeft@reddit
I agree i lost my legs last year just got my prosthetics half a year a so ago pulled out my wildeway ebike to get my freedom back .. lost my damn key such bad luck so I too the whole lock out but battery is permanently stuck in there ...but ingot it going and got my freedom back drove around all day yesterday now it's throwing a code 24 and started stuttering I disconnected the motor and reconnected and was able to get a good 20 km before it started stuttering again .....I know I'll need to replace battery or lock soon but man I missed my freedom being able to drive all day even tho it's just ebike ...being stuck in the wheelchair before I got my legs was so depressing ...I'm finally riding again with some hiccups but I'm on roads ....either way I have had horrible luck but missed the freedom of taking a nice long ride....sorry to run on but yes I would take range over speed anyday ....going to try and hit the road again this weekend error code or not .... How I missed it .. enjoy your freedom my bike brother and your legs while you have them ...peace
1CuriousEditor@reddit
I don’t have the tech expertise to compare hub- vs. mid-drive, but I do understand basic physics. More energy is required to move heavier objects. Therefore, putting a heavier motor on a bike typically requires a heavier frame, and there is always a trade-off in range and/or speed for that extra weight.
Our car is a RAV4 plug-in hybrid. It is a hybrid because it can rely on the gas engine when the battery is depleted.
The e-bike I have ordered – an Urtopia Carbon 1 Pro – will similarly be a hybrid. Unlike some e-bike riders, who want to ride their bikes like a motorcycle and use nothing but throttle to power forward, I want to use human power as much as possible for fitness purposes, and rely on the motor for an extra boost when riding long distances or climbing hills.
The lightweight carbon frame of the Urtopia means that I can ride it over flat runs with minimal or no motor assist. I expect, and indeed want, to use leg power when climbing hills, so the moderate torque output of the Urtopia motor will hopefully not be a problem.
I’ve spent way too many hours comparing the Urtopia to higher-powered, moderately heavier e-bikes with relatively long range such as the Ride1Up V2, Cannondale Tesoro Neo X2, Specialized Vado SL 4.0, and the Cannondale Tesoro Neo X 3 Remixte or EQ. Needing a swappable battery that I can carry on longer rides eliminates a couple. All of these alternatives are heavy enough to be hard — but possible — to lift onto my bike rack or the storage rack in my shed, even after removing the battery.
If you buy a 60+ lb. e-bike, be prepared to purchase a heavy duty e-bike rack. They aren’t cheap.
SUPAPWNED-@reddit
VerifiedStupidity@reddit
I’ll tell you why companies don’t make bikes with that high of range. It would cost waaaaay more money. Making a bike fast is easy but making a bike go far costs a ton simply because you need a larger battery which is the most expensive part of the bike.
GroundbreakingOil480@reddit
At 10 mph the same bike that will do 50 for an hour will run all day. Just limit yourself instead of limiting the bike.
FledglingNonCon@reddit
My guess is that most people don't want to sit on a bike seat for 7 hours and 40-50 miles does the vast majority of what the vast majority of owners want to do at a lower price and less weight to carry around.
Holliebanana@reddit
I have one with 35aH battery. With pedal can go up to 120miles. https://www.evpowerrides.com/collections/qiolor/products/qiolor-tiger-plus-moped-style-e-bike?variant=46373922701524
Negative_Feed_1303@reddit
I have a tiny battery on my juiced ripcurrent. 52v 1000w hub motor and 15.3amp/hr battery means you can go 28mph for an hour realistically. But if I ride the same bike in eco mode or assist level 1, the bike feels as light as a regular bike, goes the same speed with less pedal effort, and my 20 mile range goes to 70 miles on the same battery.
There are so many hub motor bikes that have huge batteries compared to mine: 60-100 Ah. That’s easily 250 miles in equivalent lower assist modes. When you get this type of range, the limiting factor becomes the daylight that you have in a day, and the time that you can bear being in the elements and in the saddle.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
After much research, it seems the only bikes that really meet what I'm looking for is the Wallke H9 or H7.
Concerned about problems after looking at owner's forum on FB.
Any one have thoughts on Wallke quality?
DrRenegade@reddit
The thing is people want speed. To get speed you need a large powerful battery. If you want range all you need is a large battery. Therefore you can just buy a powerful bike and either limit, or turn down the settings and you will get incredibly long range usually
djreidspeed@reddit
my R&M gets about 100 miles in level 2 of 5 power levels, on a single charge 625 w/h battery. other R&M's an plenty of other bikes have larger batteries, 750/100 w, and can go further.
Ok-Relative6179@reddit
The higher the AH, the longer the ride. (But be careful, a lot do claim high AH but it's only a fraction of it)
scifi887@reddit
I can get about 100 miles range on my bike, if I brought a spare battery could probably do 150 or more.
ellipticorbit@reddit
Stromer with the biggest battery gets 161 miles of range on eco assist level
justpress2forawhile@reddit
Range and speed go hand in hand. Larger capacity batteries have the ability to discharge faster. All you'll need a bigger battery thus more cost to hit that range, but you can also choose to go real fast and not have that range. That's why the Tesla roadster was going to have a crazy range, it needs that much battery to deliver the C rating (rate of discharge) so the range is often a side effect of speed. But you can't really go the other way either. You want range, it'll be able to go quick unless you govern it down a lot.
lov_-_vol@reddit
Because batteries are way more expensive than motors.
Legitimate_Guava3206@reddit
So DIY an ebike build. Pick the gearing and pair a big battery with it.
I aimed for \~30 mph on my BBSHD Bafang build. Originally out of the box it was a 40 mph kit but after exploring those speeds, I knew I had little need for that.
What I had when I was done making adjustments was a bike tuned to help me - a big guy - up the steep hills here and traveling at \~15 mph, it far exceeds my range expectations.
We have some really steep hills and no shoulder roads and some times with blind curves - all at once - and I wanted to minimize the amount of hill climbing/grinding that I was doing. Rather than 6-7 minutes climbing the hill I wanted to be done in a couple of minutes for safety. Boost the assist and hurry up the hill.
I used to tell people it would go 30 mph or 30 miles but not both. Though I have not tested the range to the absolute limits, I think it would prob do \~40 miles on flat ground IF I pedal along. My battery has alot of miles and years at this point.
I like the Bafang controller b/c it is programmable. Perhaps a little primitive compared to other options. I felt pedal assist 1 and 2 were a bit too much assist with the smaller size chain ring I put on my bike so I dialed it down.
The only thing it does not have which I would like to have is torque assist (name?) so that it adds assist based on how hard I'm pedaling. Pedal harder, get more assist automatically.
Iamchux@reddit
I can't really argue, the difference between getting somewhere fast or getting somewhere at all is substantial.
Live-Concert6624@reddit
get a motorcycle. If you are riding 20mph, then even 60 miles of range is 3 hours of riding. Most people on most rides are not gonna spend that long on a bike. It's just a long time. There's not a lot of utility in going that far. It's too far for a commute or shopping. It would mostly be for adventure riding, that people would want that range.
of all the advantages of an ebike, that's one area where it's not that great of an option.
you can always buy a gas generator if you really want to adventure too, or even a power station/ power bank. If you get a 12volt step up charger for your ebike, it won't have the inefficiency of converting dc to ac back to dc. You can go directly from 12volt dc to whatever voltage your ebike uses.
SoapyRiley@reddit
My ebike goes as far as I’m willing to pedal it. The key was making sure I picked one that was the same weight as an analog steel frame bike so it wasn’t impossible to pedal without assist.
RubVegetable4822@reddit
I know eahora has a bike called Romeo pro 2/3? That can go 200 miles of range, I was gonna buy it but opted out for a two seater bike.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
Too big.
Still want it to be a bicycle. The Romeo is almost a scooter.
Like to just pedal at times
zacmobile@reddit
Carry a couple batteries? 🤷
pourme2@reddit (OP)
Batteries are expensive, and a pain to carry.
Plus, not easy to lock up.
We like to stop along the way. Don't want to carry a 15lb battery around, and don't want to leave a $500 battery unlocked.
The $1,500 bikes have the ability to have the range, just geared for speed instead
toodlesandpoodles@reddit
Uh, no. Range is largely determined by energy stored in the battery. There are losses through the drivetrain, but ultimately it is going to take some amount of energy to travel each mile at some speed. Adding more miles to the range means adding more batteries. Gearing isn't going to help with this.
You're confusing gearing for speed vs. torque. Gearing allows you to run low speed with high torque or high speed with low torque, so you can gear a bike to go fast on the flats or to climb steeper hills, but you aren't going to change the range by an appreciable amount.
Your battery stores some amount of energy, typically given amp-hrs. Multiply this by the voltage of your system and it tells you the energy you have available. If you are drawing 5 amps while traveling 12mph on a 50V system with a 10amp-hr battery , ignoring voltage sag you will get about 2 hrs of operation (5amps * 2hrs = 10amp-hrs) which will get you 24 miles of range (12mph * 2 hrs).
If you want to go 150 miles you need 6 of those batteries. Enjoy the increased cost and weight.
Deep_Mood_7668@reddit
So you don't want a solution, you just want to complain.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
No, the solution is already available, it's just a matter of set up.
PAS2 at 15mph with a 200lb rider uses around 30-40 WH. A 2000 wh battery can go way more than 150 mi with at 750 watt motor. But instead it's they use 3000- 5000 watts of motors.
Overkill for paths and trails
AMC879@reddit
Between my 2 batteries I have 50ah and I can't get anywhere near 150 miles. I did around 105 a few times with a little power left but that's pushing it. 150 mile range isn't very realistic if you want it in a single battery and still be able to lift the bike into your vehicle or onto a rack.
elvinLA@reddit
Bruh. So just limit the motor to 750 or 500w then, noone is forcing you to run it in max mode at full throttle all the time...
Legitimate_Agency165@reddit
You can also just not use the 3000w and set them to be limited at 750w. The problem is that bikes with that much battery are heavy and suck to pedal as actual ebikes. One of mine has 2100wh of battery capacity but the batteries weigh like 20 pounds. You just can’t get past the physics of it until they make better batteries. The actual motor system is already extremely efficient
obscuredreference@reddit
It’s easy to build a lockable battery storage compartment mounted on the bike.
dear_wormwood@reddit
I'm afraid your problem is with physics, not with e-bike r&d. Any e bike with a decent, low powered middrive is pretty much as optimised for range as is possible with current technology.
zacmobile@reddit
Fair enough. You need one very energy dense battery.
joeg26reddit@reddit
You’re looking at a mid drive like Bosch or Shimano STEPS system. Are you in USA? Check Jensen online or Bikesdirect clearance page. Maybe REI outlet. Mid drive pedalec can get up to 150 miles range
obscuredreference@reddit
Holy shit, for real?!! That’s impressive.
Do you know if Tern has anything comparable? I had looked at their HSD long ago but ended up opting for a Blix Dubbel instead. (I like it, but I wish it had even more range.)
What brand and model do you recommend the most for range and comfort of riding?
joeg26reddit@reddit
As long as the mid drive system is Shimano STEPS Or Bosch with a decent size battery and has a decent gear range you’re good
obscuredreference@reddit
Thanks!
My bike is my commuter vehicle and I do about 20 miles everyday to drop my kid off and then pick up, so that severely reduces the range left for extra trips I can do throughout the day.
There’s ways around it but it’s tempting to eventually get a bike with more range.
joeg26reddit@reddit
Most Shimano STEPS mid drive can do 60 miles easy in pedelec standard mode as long as it’s not all climbing
obscuredreference@reddit
My Dubbel did 80 miles when new (it has two batteries) but the battery strength has decreased over the years and I did some dumb amphibian stuff to the bike that likely cost me one of the batteries, so its range isn’t what it once was. 😬
pourme2@reddit (OP)
Will check those out.
Thank you
jedadkins@reddit
I don't know if you can fit enough batteries on a "normal" bike frame to get 150mi range lol
anzitus@reddit
I have a Wallke H7 and a Wallke H9. They are huge. The H9 even more so.
H7 has a 55" wheelbase and H9 has a slightly less wheelbase of 53". I'm 5' 7" and these are a challenge to ride for longer trips.
My advice: find a bike you like and add extra batteries with a battery combiner/balancer.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
Was considering both of these. Comments on the owners group deterred me.
Why is it a challenge to go long distance?
anzitus@reddit
Longer wheelbase means you have a wider turn radius. I always have to be mindful of the bike or I'll hit curbs. The X-Class and Scorpion are the perfect size for me.
One thing I don't like about the Wallke is the delay in the cadence sensor. Feels like almost a second before power kicks in or off VS almost instant on other bikes. I've tried messing with the settings but nothing helps.
LordEmrich@reddit
How about the NIU BQi-C3 Pro? Dual batteries and looks like a regular step thru bike. Only claims 90 miles of range, though.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
Getting close. This seems like the next direction for ebikes. Superhighway frames, to increase range.
Now if they would just make battery a 52 volt, 30ah, that bike would be well over 100 mi.
They give the option of another battery, but the links didn't work to see pricing
zaheen96@reddit
Wallke H9 using it 120 mile range at 20 mph
Hortos@reddit
150 miles worth of batteries would be very heavy even if you had a slow bike. My bike can go 60mph for maybe 30 miles but if I go 20 I can get 75+ miles because I have a 72v50ah battery. Its heavy and the entire bike itself is over 120lbs. Its like getting some of these new EV trucks with 400 miles of range but the battery pack is 3000lbs
CapOnBilly@reddit
Going 33mph max speed you will have a 40+ miles range with 33Ah on a 48v 1000w motor. I do get you but I think this is the sweet spot like a lighter moped
toodlesandpoodles@reddit
Tl/dr because most people don't go on ling rides but want the power, and the added range comes with serious disadvantages that outweight the benefit for nearly all ebike riders.
Top speed is determined by the motor's maximum power output and the ability of the batteries to deliver it. Range is determined by stored energy and efficiency.
Power output is easy. Wire twenty 3.7V lithium-ion cells in series and you have 74V to work with. Draw 20A of current and you now have a power output of 74V*20A = 1480W, or about 2hp, which will get you moving plenty fast on an ebike.
The problem is that your range is going to be terrible, because you are only using 10 cells. If you want to double the range you need to double the number of cells, which doubles the weight and cost associated with those cells.
So you can get speed inexpensively with little added weight, but to increase range you have to increase the number of cells which increases cost and weight.
You want 150miles of range you can get it. It is going to take 5 battery packs, and if each pack weighs 8lbs and costs $200 you have now increased the cost of your bike by $1000 and the weight by 40 lbs. You also have to fit those batteries on the bike, so your bike is now a rolling battery.
And all of this added capacity will rarely be used. Most people never go on near that long of rides with their ebikes, so they are just lugging around the expensive batteries for no benefit, whereas they will use all of the available power for at least shorts bursts on nearly every ride.
Aggressive_Boat675@reddit
buy extra same battery or add another one, problem solved.
smoothslash1@reddit
Wallke can do over 120 miles on a charge with a top speed of 30 mph
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
It really does not make sense to have 150 miles of range. Most people don't want to spend 10 hrs on a bike. Like 95% of the population would not do it.
I've done 100 Miles on a bicycle, 8 to 9 hrs of riding. It's like running a marathon. Rewarding, but in no way a pleasant experience. Hell, its rough on a car designed for it, let alone a motorcycle or a bicycle.
That makes for a very small market and why there is not much need for one.
dariansdad@reddit
150 miles in one trip in a car is rough? Y'all must have a velvet rear end.
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
8 to 9 hrs in a car. Please learn to read before commenting
dariansdad@reddit
My reading and comprehension is just fine but your writing skills are lacking. How is a reader supposed to discern your intention when you wrote of both mileage and time in the same sentence? My prerogative was the latter which was mileage. And then you chastise me for not referring back to your first paragraph?
And, while we're at it, tough guy, the correct verbiage for your intended meaning is "...rough in a car..." not "...rough on a car...". You can be on a bike but if you were on a car...well, that would be rough.
Further, "...a car designed for it..." would imply that a comfortable car with supportive seats, a competent suspension and air conditioning would make a 10-hour journey rather pleasant.
Just to cap it off, I would not spend more than 3 hours on my bike without a serious break and I have a big, fat seat, full suspension and a proven 112+ mile range (with very little pedaling) on the battery.
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
Common fucking sense that riding an hour or two in a car is not uncomfortable.
Here is a shovel, you can keep digging.
dariansdad@reddit
You called me out for being ignorant, I proved you wrong and you attack again? We know who you voted for.
dariansdad@reddit
Who hurt you?
LabioscrotalFolds@reddit
My gazelle has a 70mile range in eco mode. On flat land at the beach my estimated range went up above 100miles. Also Wallke seems to just do fat tire bikes which have more rolling resistance and therefore less range. Find a class one normal tire bike that is light weight and has gears
Cynyr36@reddit
At 15mph, that's 10 hours of battery life. 7.5 hours at 20mph. Either way that's a pretty big day without a long stop somewhere.
mityman50@reddit
Because people don’t ride 150 miles per day. Market too small
pourme2@reddit (OP)
75 miles out at 15-25 mph goes by pretty fast.
avo_cado@reddit
So you do care about speed
pourme2@reddit (OP)
25-30 mph is fast enough for the paths we ride on
I have other toys for speed
s0rce@reddit
Just go 12mph on a non ebike and you have unlimited range
5yearsago@reddit
reported for doxing
avo_cado@reddit
If you wanted long range and didnt care about speed, an analog bike would be a perfectly fine solution,
PyroSAJ@reddit
3-5 hours isn't pretty fast.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
Goes by quick on a Saturday
PyroSAJ@reddit
There's very few people who want to go forward slowly for 3-5 hours on a weekend.
Most want to get somewhere and do stuff or enjoy getting somewhere (fast or offroad). The other alternative is exercise, and that normally clashes with ebike is you're fit enough to keep going for that long.
Very small market for that indeed.
sapeur8@reddit
What about all the food delivery people on ebikes?
PyroSAJ@reddit
Often, it makes more sense to have multiple batteries that can swap.
schleepercell@reddit
3-5 hours is considered a pretty nice ride for people that like biking, not necessarily ebiking. I do it several times a year and know many others that do that and more.
DinoGarret@reddit
But that's the one way time, so it would be a 6-10 hour ride. My blisters would have blisters.
schleepercell@reddit
I never said it was 1 way. I have a 40 mile loop through up through a forest preserve and then back down a different way. If I'm feeling good and got an early enough start I can go another 10 miles up. The furthest I've gone in a day is 80 miles, and that was on a 10 speed with no motor. It's a goal for some people that like biking to try and do a (century) 100 mile ride.
DinoGarret@reddit
The people you're replying to were talking about 3-4 hours one way.
Ok_Nectarine1971@reddit
At a best case scenario of 25mph average, 6 hours is a pretty long time to spend on a bicycle seat. The only advantage I can see to that much range is the convenience of having to charge it less. It would be nice to charge my eBike maybe once a week instead of after every ride. That said, to me, the convenience isn't worth the massive increase in cost a battery (or batteries) that can last 150 miles would add to the bike.
PyroSAJ@reddit
The weight alone can become a pain point in that case.
Ebike batteries get you about 200Wh per kilogram, and you use anywhere from 5 to 20 Wh per kilometre.
That's a 6kg-24kg battery for 150 miles depending on assist level.
Droidstation3@reddit
I would agree that "most" people aren't going to be riding that far in one ride. It took me about 6 hours to ride 90+ miles on my Aniioki bike with a 60ah battery. Its not really practical to TRY to ride that far (and your butt will HATE you for trying), its just the peace of mind to not have to ever THINK about "do I have the range?" for any given trip.
snoogins355@reddit
I was looking at a Wallke H9 with 82ah batteries (1x 60ah, 1x 22ah) and thought how often will I really need that try of range?! I have 20ah on my XPremium and can get me from my house to my office 27 miles each way, charge at my office desk. Do I need 4x that?
Droidstation3@reddit
Do you NEED that kinda range? Probably not. But would it be cool to not need to CHARGE your bike for at least 5-6 trips? Probably.
Tim_the_geek@reddit
I have an ebike with 150mile range, i just cant go any faster than 5mph.
BattleFlyNate@reddit
Boschs new bs3 (smart) system can take 2 daisy chained 800mwh batteries and a 250mwh range extender. On eco you should get close ish. Don't know of any of bikes that come with this standard so you'll have to mod, but it's possible. Not all systems come ready for this, but they're capable of it, you just need a bike shop that's willing to unlock it.
snoogins355@reddit
I started doing food delivery for extra cash and it would be nice! Maybe next year
Tauralt@reddit
I'll be happy to split the difference at 35mph and 100 mi range lol, rural roads are rough at slow speeds
OddAstronaut2305@reddit
They have e-bikes that get that range, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orss3-bksak
llama_fresh@reddit
To get that sort of range, you going to need a pretty massive battery.
Given that every bike I've seen has a removable battery, rather than having them all online all the time, this sort of range could be had by emulating the massive battery by carrying a spare charged battery or two and swapping them out.
Indiesol@reddit
IMO, e-bikes don't need to do much more than about 20-25mph. I'd take longer range any day.
For those of you that feel like e-bikes need to do 50mph, stop being a fuckup and get your motorcycle endorsement. Trust me, motorcycles are even more fun, and unless you get a sport bike, are cheap to insure.
MrBrownStone2@reddit
So many aftermarket batteries for all bikes that focus on distance not top end speed. Do some research and possibly a DIY battery system that meets your requirements. We have cells capable of delivering 100amp draws and cells capable of 6000mah capacity. Make or buy the pack that has your largest AH capacity for your ebike, hell you can carry a booster pack in a knapsack that would give you hundreds of kms distance 🤷♂️
Cixin97@reddit
I’m the opposite. I want more options for bikes with <40km range. A 30km range would be enough to do my daily tasks 99% of the time and then I have a car for the other 1% of time. I never plan on riding an ebike 50+km in a day, I’d rather have options for cheap e-bikes with minimal range or even expensive ones that still have minimal range but great speed, premium features, etc, and benefit from the lighter weight of short range battery. Even from an energy used perspective you’re burning a tonne of electricity just hauling around a battery that is big enough for a huge range and only the first 20% of it gets used frequently.
Ok-Relative6179@reddit
Make your own battery pack and ebike.
DonJohnlong@reddit
This 👌
Wise-Brilliant5487@reddit
i’m 72. i choose range over speed.
lfeagan@reddit
I hear ya. The Bosch flow app, which I have found pretty accurate in my first 1400km of riding, estimates my range at 214km in eco (boo) and 153 km in auto (yah!) with me at 97% charge on 2x800wh batteries.
ToastdWoobie@reddit
I've got a Gazelle. Range on low support is more than 100 miles. Range at most support is 50 miles.
I love it.
Ok_Whole6093@reddit
Rattan boasts 120 mile range. Not sure if you’re looking for mountain bike capabilities. Probably going to need a cargo bike. I have the Lectric XPedition 2.0 long range with dual batteries. It says (optimal conditions) 170 mile range. It’s been an awesome bike so far!
TheRealSterikics@reddit
Like, I am new to the ebike scene, but can't you limit your throttle and get that range?
FreedomHall072222@reddit
Theres definitely some long range bikes out there you just have to do your research. Longer range bikes typically aren't cheap. Any bike on the market also has its pros, and cons. Thats why research research research is important.
Mashadow21@reddit
Engwe m1 dual battery. Enough said :)
quantumpixel99@reddit
If you put your bike in eco you can get crazy range. People are forgetting ebikes are supposed to enhance pedaling, not replace it.
Lucky-Pie9875@reddit
You 100% can. But most consumers don’t want to spend a small fortune on what it would cost on batteries and the added weight is significant.
TonyJian5@reddit
Just build it yourself then. No need to ask some company to make it or cry about it. Get a 100ah battery and custom the frame for it. Run at 48v and you can ride all day until your back and ass breaks.
Militant_Triangle@reddit
Oh I find all these stupid fast hub motor 7 geared Shimono Tourny shifter 40+ mph bikes hilarious. You have so much speed on bike components not intended to deal with them coupled to a basic 7 geared shifter makes a really BAD bike if you know, what to pedal. For those that just want to go fast, not you know, bike for miles on end and get around the lack of legislation. Ok I guess. But for someone that actually you know, cycles an ebike, they offer nothing but disappointment as you can not readily dial in your cadence with 7 freaking gears and a hub motor. No thanks. I feel like these are more fad than anything else. For 50+ MPH I would MUCH rather have an electric adventure or dirt bike with motorcycle bits.
fat_cock_freddy@reddit
Aventon Level 2/3 with 3 spare batteries. Done.
Murky-Carpet8443@reddit
It's cause they're trying to sell them to teenagers that will turn around and bug their parents for the electric "dirt bike" all their friends have now.
Yes I know they make real electric "dirt bikes", apparently that gave these companies the idea if we make all our best models in that fashion surely they'll sell.
PatrickGSR94@reddit
any bike with a "normal" sized battery can go 50 MPH if it can suck down the electrons fast enough without overheating, and proper gearing. But to get anywhere near 150 miles of range you'd need a HUGE battery pack, which would easily send the overall bike weight over 100 pounds.
My home-built steel-frame commuter e-bike is close to 70 pounds loaded to go to work, with a 13.5 52V aH battery. BBS02 mid-drive setup. When it was new I could do about 35-40 miles on a 80% charge, with speeds averaging in the 15-18 MPH range. The battery is pretty old now, and barely gets 25 miles on a 90% charge (just tested it on Sunday). 150 miles of range would require an absolutely massive pack.
Euphoric_Raccoon270@reddit
If you want more range you can adjust the power output and a whole bunch of things in your settings that will give you more range if that's what you want. Check whichever model it is that you want to buy and look up whatever info or videos you can find that will show you what the setting options are for that bike.
gz1970@reddit
If you are driving 50mph on a trail,you’re the problem
No-Resolution-1918@reddit
How watt hours work:
Total wattage of battery / watts drawn = hours you can ride. From there you can calculate speed/hours to give you your range. Slower you go, less watts you draw, longer the battery lasts. However the slower you go the less distance you cover over time.
TLDR: You don't need to go 50mph for three hours, you could go 20mph for 7.5 hours. But then it's all down to how many watts you draw to ride 20mph. My bike draws around 500w at 20mph, so you'd need a ~8000wh battery. That's a crazy huge battery.
Alternative-Driver-9@reddit
My Tesway X7 pro has the range
Important-Ad-6754@reddit
You can always buy another battery 👌🤠
learningDoxer_@reddit
I feel like the most an average person needs if they just wanna chill and ride trails is 35mph and good torque, this plus a 150 mile range would be amazing.
pdoherty972@reddit
It would also likely prevent a lot of bikes eating themselves from the batteries heating up.
Also a lot less injuries - these bikes are not really appropriate for 50 MPH (or even 40 MPH) speeds.
Ok_Nectarine1971@reddit
I mean; it's not one or the other. Some models focus on speeds, some focus on range, some attempt a balance of the two.
That said, other than just reducing power and making the bike as light as possible, there's not a lot that can be done to improve range without increasing battery capacity (and therefore cost), at least until battery tech improves and alternative options to Lithium-ion battery packs become more practical/affordable.
Boulange1234@reddit
This brings up an interesting topic I was thinking about! I see three entirely different ebike categories that need to evolve / have evolved / are evolving.
- Sports (shocks and tires, long range, reliable, rugged) not likely to be stolen - not tons of ebike thieves on the Appalachian Trail. Ruggedness and range are top priorities. You don't want to drag a 60lb dead ebike 6 miles through rough terrain.
- Commuting and Local Errands (lightweight, cheap, not worth stealing, cargo) - very likely to be stolen - not a lot of secure bike parking in US cities, users are often shocked at the rate of ebike theft and think a $50 lock that would deter thieves from their $750 pedal bike will do.
- Delivery (long range, reliable, rugged, hard to steal, cargo) - average likely to be stolen; not out of your view for long, but short exposure all day, most days in very public areas = higher risk. Cargo is important on the delivery bike, but so is range, and to a lesser degree power.
The thing making ebikes so lucrative to thieves is the battery. If we got to $50 batteries that go 30 miles reliably, we solve the commuters' and local errand bikers' biggest problem: they buy a $1,000 ebike that gets stolen after 6 months.
The problem is, to do it, we sacrifice what the delivery and sports bikers really need the most. You'd think we could just make 3 kinds of ebikes and people wouldn't steal the cheap commuter/errand bikes, but if the $900 errand bike with the $50 battery LOOKS like the $2,000 delivery bike with the $300 battery (built for cargo and city streets), thieves will steal it anyway.
Why is that a problem? Delivery and sports are the uncommon use cases. Most people are not sports bikers or delivery bikers. If you could get regular consumers to PREFER to take an ebike to the dry cleaners, grocery store, daycare pickup, post office, take-out joint, farmer's market, Starbucks, etc. you could sell literally 10x as many. That would lead to 10x faster innovation, better value (economies of scale), and more demand for public facilities (secure bike parking, bike lanes)! But they'd have to feel safe and comfortable doing so.
disposableoutlaw@reddit
Agreed. I live right on one side of Newfound Gap and I’d love to be able to go to the other end of it and back but it’s pretty steep in parts towards the top so I’d need about 150mi advertised to do the 80 mile trip I’d assume
demonkeyed@reddit
But it doesn’t work that way. Range comes from battery size not for motor size. That’s why electric cars are often fast even if they don’t have long range. Batteries are heavy.
Competitive-Comb-157@reddit
The most I have been on my ebike was about 40-ish miles because I don't have anywhere else to go and I usually have a lot of battery left. I pedal 95% of the time on P2 and average around 22 mph. When I'm around people, I'm on P1. When I'm on a traveled bike trail, I reduce the bike to class 2, so 20 mph is max.
The crazy part with me is that I still ride my 20+ year Trex hybrid bike and both bikes help me ride the other. Constant peddling and handing a heavy ebike make my other bike feel like a toy. Riding the Trek keeps my legs in shape and with my normal bike cadence on the Trek, I'm too damm fast on the ebike and sometimes I'm coasting more than pedaling to keep the speed down.
The bike can throttle up to 40mph, but I find that the bugs sting at the speed...LOL I only use when on the street to get off the block. I can't pedal start like I can on the Trek due to bike geometry and the motor not kicking starting in a timely manner. It took awhile to figure out my sweet spot and its going well so far.
_haha_oh_wow_@reddit
I never ride any faster than 25-30 and that's only when I am getting out of the way of something.
legardeur2@reddit
My French manufactured Moustache with a mid-drive Bosh will reach 150 miles if I keep it in the Eco mode assist. Has two chainrings and an 11-32T freewheel. Now that 263 km range is what I read on the bike’s computer. I’ve yet to travel such a distance on a single trip and if I ever do I doubt that I will travel the entire distance in Eco mode! But all this to say that although 150 miles is probably an exaggeration the Moustache can come close to achieving OP’s wish.
MonzellRS@reddit
50 x ? = 150
Carry 3 batteries, wow I'm a genius
padan28@reddit
To simplify it down to basic economics: not enough people would pay the price required to manufacture such a bicycle to make it worthwhile to produce.
With current battery technology, more range simply means bigger / heavier battery. That's it.
But with that, by definition the bike would be much heavier and more expensive than typical ebikes, which also by definition would make it more like motor cycle than a bike if you want it to be safe (bigger tires, stronger frame, better suspension, better brakes).
Of course you can bolt on 3kwh of batteries (about the minimum I would say for a 150 mile range with a decent amount of pedaling, 3-6x of what's on a typical ebike) to road bike if you like, but I don't think any manufacturer wants their name on that, for various reasons haha...
So what you are referring to is more like a "motorcycle that is intentionally configured to be slow" than a ebike with long range.
Angel-JB@reddit
Actually all you need is fast cross-charging at car chargers.
Repulsive_Aside_4122@reddit
I stack batteries to get my range - my 95ah prototype should be good for 180mi plus based ah used on my standard 60 mile rides. Yes I bash on the throttle. The twin 20ahs on top are hooked together with an adapter, otherwise I manually switch out the batteries as needed. The stack is mounted using dense foam and rubber strips so they don't chafe, rattle & are protected from shock.
Better-Rub464@reddit
Fiido is just launching exactly what you are asking for. And they are cheap and good quality
rachaeltalcott@reddit
Looking at this range calculator,
https://reallygoodebikes.com/pages/electric-bike-ebike-range-calculator
150 miles of range would require a 60 Ah x 36V = 2160 Wh battery. If you built this battery out of Panasonic 18650 cells with 3.4 Ah x 3.7V = 12.58 Wh, that's about 170 cells. They would weigh about 7.8 kg, without the case, so heavy but impossible. I think the dealbreaker for most people would be the cost. If you get genuine Panasonic or Sony cells, even with a bulk discount it would probably be close to a thousand dollars, more if you're not getting them from a discount source. You can get cheaper off brand ones, but there's definitely a trade off between price and how much power you get for a certain weight.
UtmostProfessional@reddit
Cargo Bikes with Golf Cart batteries, 48v 100ah to start with. Or, that's my current project.
Outtacontrol9@reddit
For that range you can build it yourself with a conversion kit. Mine does 120 miles at 20mph.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
What batteries are you using?
Seems like it would have to be dual batteries for that range?
Outtacontrol9@reddit
No a single 45ah triangle battery. My bike in total is 75 lbs, and I am 180. Both me and my bike could be a little lighter and you can get a 50ah battery or even more and then if you pedal quite a lot 150 miles range is totally doable.
Remote-Citron-9383@reddit
See your number for capacity vs range is more practical, your 45 ah is a big beast of a battery, I've seen claims of 700wh doing 100 miles and I'm dying with laughter. You must have some strong rims for the weight, my long ride set-up has one 52v 20ah and one 48v 17.5ah but I'm not pushing 100miles, l reckon even at 15.5 mph I'd get 80 miles but the motor will still peak power draw on spikes with hills etc, pains to have all these hills lol.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
That's a massive battery.
What's the voltage?
Outtacontrol9@reddit
Yea lol.. 23 lbs. But it fits in my triangle frame perfectly so except for the additonal weight there is no issue.
Its a 52v.. which is too much for most use cases as it allows me to reach 35mph if I want.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
2300 watt hours
Wired's dual battery bikes are 2100 WH, but they claim 90 miles range.
If they ran with smaller motors, +100 is surely doable.
Outtacontrol9@reddit
Its 90 miles at PAS 1 which im not sure whats the speed of that.. also the bike is heavier than mine at 88 lbs and has fat tires that makes more friction... not a fan
pourme2@reddit (OP)
PAS1 is 15mph
Outtacontrol9@reddit
Oh then for me that sucks lol. Its also double the price of my build !!
PyroSAJ@reddit
You get bigger batteries. They're just going to be rarer.
CP066@reddit
You can get that though? i have 58ah in batteries for my letric 3.0.
The farthest I've made it is 78.3 miles, got a flat. :(
Still had lots of juice.
defiantcross@reddit
the lectric xpedition 2.0 with dual long-range batteries supposedly has a 170mi claimed range. but very few people would really use it like that. maybe delivery people.
Jasonstackhouse111@reddit
I have a Radpower Radrover and on a bigger bike like that, it would be easy to have some range extending batteries on the rear rack. I too don't care about top speed much, 30-40km/h is just fine, but want more range. And no, I don't want to engineer it myself or buy more batteries and strap them on, I want an integrated system.
Wintlink-@reddit
If you don't want to go fast, you can have ranges between 100 and 140km easily with homemade ebikes with bafang motors.
I have a 48v 19.2Ah battery, with a BBS02B, and if I do like normal speeds, with assits level between 2 and 4 (I have 9 assists levels), sometimes 0 when it's really easy, I think I can do it pretty easily.
On flat surfaces I think I can get close to 200km of range. 150Mph is a bit enormous, but I think with the biggest hailong battery and an efficient road bike you can do it.
El_Guap@reddit
What about hills?
lobo5000@reddit
You can always build you own bike, or battery.
But 150 miles is a lot. I built my battery with 50Ah LiFePo4 cells and it has 2300wh. I mainly commute on it so I run a pretty high assist and get around 75 miles of range.
laughingmeeses@reddit
I can squeeze ~100 out of my Serial 1 with the larger battery they sell.
LeastEntrepreneur884@reddit
Just get a trailer loaded up with additional batteries and your set.
Apprehensive-Mix6671@reddit
I agree with increased mileage being a dream. Problem is the size of the battery would require mounting it in a trailer. And I'm talking about an actual 150 mile distance, not "what's advertised".
jonsully@reddit
I designed a custom configuration for the Bafang BBSHD mid-drive motor that, as a side-benefit, drastically increases the typical range for most users. I can get 100 miles on a full battery charge with a big cargo bike. I know of no OEM ebike manufacturer that's targeting that segment of the market though.
Crunchybastid@reddit
I have a Wallke h7 awd. Quality is great. No complaints at all and it’s got a HUGE battery
NorseGlas@reddit
If I put my bike in pedal assist 3 and actually pedal, I get about 35miles out of a 20ah battery with moderate pedaling effort at around 13-14mph average. 20ah, 52v, and a 750w hub motor. 26” fat tires too so I’m positive that my bike is not that efficient.
If I have my second battery, and I lower the pedal assist to 1, I don’t doubt I could get 80 miles out of it.
I don’t see why you couldn’t build yourself a 60-80ah battery and put it on a more efficient (thinking gravel bike) with a decent mid drive, and get 150 miles out of it.
But how many people are actually going to go 150 miles on a bike before they need to recharge??? My longest trips are around 30miles. Manufacturers are going to advertise points that will suit how the average person uses their bike.
oh2ridemore@reddit
Batteries are only so energy dense, so you are limited by weight/size of the battery fitting within the bike frame. Until we have solid state lithium this wont happen unless you have 2 batteries. Also, this is assuming you are pedaling and not just using throttle.
am0x@reddit
I can get over 90 on my emtb but max speed is 20mph assisted and you have to pedal.
Relative-Display-676@reddit
mid drive motors from yamaha get pretty close to that range with crosscore and wabash bikes without weighing over 100lbs.
wallke is more of a motorcycle than bike, weighing in at 130lbs...
Riversntallbuildings@reddit
The Eurobike conference just announced a number of new internal gear hub motors that are light weight. It’ll be a few more months before models become available and a few more years before they become affordable, but they are coming. Battery density continues to improve as well and battery prices keep falling.
The future you’re dreaming of will happen, just not as quickly as we all want.
Vloda@reddit
I ride a used recumbent, that got a Bafang BBS01 now with the standard ~700Wh battery. I get about 100 miles out of one battery. I added the option to have 2. I added a solar-roof. I can now ride close to unlimited range...
Ivethrownallaway@reddit
I'm really curious about the solar roof setup. I assume you used flexible panels? How many Watts -peak? How did you mount them? Do you have a custom mppt for charging?
In fact, you should make a post about it, it would make for an interesting discussion. I've been dreaming about such a setup on a recumbent trike.
Vloda@reddit
It has been quite challenging to say the least.
I used flexible panels. 2x 130W peak. There are adjustable MPPTs out there. I mounted them on aluminium profiles. I mainly wanted weather protection but decided against the dead weight.
I will post about the setup at some point.
Ask away :)
Floresian-Rimor@reddit
A full write up with pictures would be amazing!
Are you direct charging the battery while it's powering the motor?
Vloda@reddit
I did one for everything except the solar roof. It did not really catch on. I posted it in the subreddit for recumbents. You can find the post here.
Yes and no. I usually do charge the battery via its charging port (with solar). I have a second battery (not operating at the same time but as a replacement for looong rides), that can be charged instead of the active motor.
moutnmn87@reddit
Just take some extra batteries to swap if you want more range
Sir-Buzz92@reddit
Think its mainly because of battery size. There's secret tech out there with batteries that are small and last for ages.. the military uses these and it won't be in public use for another 30+years. One of them albeit not that practical is the "aluminium air battery" which uses an aluminium rod and air to create electricity (with some chems). It's not practical because the reaction destroys the aluminium rod over time.
RepresentativeHuge79@reddit
I agree. My etrike goes 20mph and that's plenty. I'd much rather have more range over more speed
Blunttack@reddit
My significant other’s Level 2 gets about 80 miles. She weighs about 130 pounds and prefers to pedal at 2 or 3 assist. Get a second battery, and that’s at 150. Weigh less and pedal more? lol. But yeah, even if you could go 150 miles… that’s a lot to do in a day - or at least until you’re back to an outlet.
Similar-Lie-5439@reddit
Agree. Would also like it to have sand capability
_boozygroggy_@reddit
They don’t exist because you’re the only one who wants a ridiculously heavy slow e-bike. There’s no shortcut in the weight / range dynamic.
Sk1rm1sh@reddit
Any bicycle does 150 miles if you pedal enough.
Regrettably, the physical properties of lithium-ion chemistry being what they are make such a combination of things in a single vehicle impossible. Without pedaling, of course.
I'd like a solid gold, diamond encrusted, living, breathing unicorn. Unfortunately, neither of our dreams are going to come true.
Gearing changes the balance between maximum torque and top speed, not range and speed.
Keep the bike under 20kph and the motor won't draw much power on flat ground, regardless of its top speed.
If you want to draw less power at higher speed, buy a fairing.
justanotherponut@reddit
If I put my 3 50ah solar batteries in my trailer I could probably get 150 miles out of it.
mlee6050@reddit
I agree I want 100 mile at least over 20 mile, also if possible 150 mile be nice if a guy's parents okay as to save money instead of cycling a normal bike, an e bike be nice over the 150 mile distance he is
captainspandito@reddit
150 miles? Let’s assume you are happy with 15 mph. Are you really gonna spend 10 hour days on your e-bike? Sounds like you want a motorbike, not an e-bike.
hunter222777@reddit
This is honestly why I bought the onyx rcr. Speed is realistically about 40mph in normal. But if I eco it all day, I've got just over 100 miles of pedal free riding
danielv123@reddit
Just pick any ebike with a reasonable torque sensor and fit a battery for whatever range you desire?
BigRock4389@reddit
There are more reasons:
1. Bikes made mostly for shorter rides.. so, if somebody wanna go bigger distance, can use motorbike.
2. Battery size. That would be so big (and heavy) for a long ride. Just imagine when a small battery 10kg, but you should go with a 40-50kg battery..
For example, I have a 72v, 20ah battery. Price was 350USD, dimensions: 320x 80mm x 175mm.. so, imageine this but 4x bigger in size and price:
3. The price of bigger battery: most of bike manufacturer make bikes with small batteries, because try to keep price low..
st174ar@reddit
Wildeway SummitX comes with single 60 Ah battery, weights 93 lb. or Wildeway FW11 3.0 comes with single 32 Ah battery, considerably lighter - 73lb and you can buy second battery in case of really long rides.
st174ar@reddit
Wallke H9 AWD | 3200W Folding Ebike 60/82Ah Battery. 82Ah battery should give you 150 miles of range, if going half throttle.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
Was looking at the H9 and H7, but too many reported problems. The 2nd battery requires a different charger than the 60v battery also.
But Wallke gets it. 35 mph nax speed, still big range.
DIYuntilDawn@reddit
You know they do make ones that can go that far AND that fast. Just not at the same time.
I'm pretty sure that most e-bikes list there ranges as "up to" a certain distance. And that usually means that IF the rider is a 90lbs skinny person (actually US federal tax credit codes for what an e-bike legally is state that it can't go faster than 28MPH with a rider of 125Lbs over flat ground. So that is probably a safe assumed rider weight on most estimates) and IF they are also constantly pedaling, and IF the motor is set to the lowest assistance level, and IF it was under ideal conditions like perfect temperature, no wind, and a perfectly flat road where there was never any stop and go traffic.
So the actual real world experience is likely not going to be that advertised max possible range.
There are actually online calculators that solar powered cars use to calculate the maximum size and weight of batteries the can put onto an electric vehicle before the added weight of the battery exceeds the benefit of having a larger battery. So there is no point in having a 300lbs battery that could last for days if it weighs so much that the e-bike could not move under its own power anyway.
tsk1979@reddit
Priority current with added battery pack gives you 100+ miles of you ride at 15 mph with assist 2. Drops to 50 miles at full power going 25mph
Left_Appointment4884@reddit
I'm not entirely familiar with all the bikes yet as I'm still lurking on what to get. But I was under the assumption that with a good charger range is basically a moot point in this age. Unless you are off-road 150+ miles.
pourme2@reddit (OP)
If you want carry your charger with you, and can find a place to charge your bike on the ride. Not easy to do.
Illustrious-Can-7482@reddit
I don’t know I spent almost $1500 to build two custom packs. I’m only getting 112 range while cruising 35mph the entirety. The lower performing pack will get around the same range but I can only push around 25 mph
18650batterystore.com
Power build pack features bak45d 16s10p Jkbms smart active balancing bms with 75200 flipsky esc Tested up to 64mph and 40 miles range peak settings. 35 mph roughly 108-115 conservative settings. It can get more but I only learned tuning two weeks ago
Entry pack LGm50lt no notes. I use this battery pack for deliveries and don’t pay attention to it as much for documentation but it’s a 100balanfe active balancer no bms for safety just raw
Both packs have airflow channels as well as insulation and thermal pads and active cooling fans. Price point includes having to buy a spot welder and pure nickel strips and all other goodies that bring them into “performance” category.
If you can’t buy what you want to have. Attain the skills to build what you want!