A question for people in charge of hiring low-time pilots

Posted by TheRoadto1500@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 29 comments

**What are your thoughts on interview prep?** I understand its place for the big birds: that jump demands preparation. But at the entry-level when it’s hours and personality first, do you have a preference for candidates who got some coaching beforehand? could you explain why? I’m not talking about learning how to answer the drunk captain question. I’m talking about the why you want to work here, why should we hire you, tell me about a time…, why you’re a better candidate than the others, what are your strenghts, weaknesses and so on During the interviews I’ve done, discussing flying stuff (drunk scenario, emergencies, what if…) comes naturally. No gouge? let’s roll. But when it comes to the “corporate” part, it doesn’t go as smoothly. I never prepped because i thought getting my answers crafted by someone else takes out the genuineness, and the interviewer would notice. But that’s flawed thinking because it’s not like the flying knowledge i acquired over the years that i say “comes naturally” is from me, it was from someone else. The few jobs I was offered so far were because they didn’t really have an HR portion, just flying, life experience and a casual conversation. So I guess what I’m asking is, would you recommend low-time pilots to do interview prep? If it isn’t clear, I think it should be the least of our worries as we hunt for jobs, but maybe I’m shooting myself in the foot. I want to start looking into 135 jobs anyway…

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29 Comments

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mad_catters@reddit

I wouldn't go as far as interview prep for a small 135 shop. But if you're applying for a 135 job you should know 135 stuff. Things like: The difference between 91, 91K, and 135. Basically what 135.293/297 rides are and which ones you need for what and when. The difference between SIC and PIC, (and maybe duties of pic) who logs what and when. When are you allowed to begin/continue an approach under 91 vs 135 regarding wx mins.

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TheRoadto1500@reddit (OP)

That is what i feel is the “easy” portion of the interview because you just need to read and learn. But what about the HR stuff for a small 135? Would you say that’s not super important?

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mad_catters@reddit

I would say its important, but unless you're going to net/flex I think any kind of paid interview prep would be overkill. Other comments here have some pretty good insight for how to handle the HR part.

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AA5A@reddit

It really depends on the operation. The larger 135/91k operators, such as Flex or NJ, I would use prep. For the smaller operators, I would do research on the company, review basic knowledge stuff and be yourself. When I did hiring years ago for a 16 aircraft flight department, we didn’t use HR, it was the DO and CP and all we wanted to know is if we can enjoy a 5 day trip with you, you’re willing to learn, adapt and have a basic knowledge of the FARs. We typically had a formal interview and then would take the applicant to lunch/dinner to make sure they’re a good fit. Also, all those HR questions do not have to correlate to aviation, they’re looking for real life experience and how you reacted/adapted. Good luck to you.

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TheRoadto1500@reddit (OP)

Yes, I guess the general consensus is it depends. When you say research on the company, you mean the people? what they do, what they like?

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AA5A@reddit

I mean, when the company was founded, their business model, the aircraft they operate, etc..

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SilentPlatypus_@reddit

To be fair, though, this job is also a customer service job and being able to spew a BS corporate line is actually a skill you'll use on the job. There are a thousand other pilots who can fly airplanes. Assuming your hours and stats on paper are as good as the next guy, they're likely to decide who to hire based on who they think is least likely to embarrass the company when they're talking to customers. You don't need to be a public relations officer, but most employers want to know that you can sound polished and professional in front of non-pilots.

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TheRoadto1500@reddit (OP)

Oh for sure. Even flying jumpers I understand the customer service aspect of being a pilot. That wasn’t brought up at all during any of the dropzones I interviewed for though. I imagine almost all entry-level flying jobs are that way. You’re not dealing with customers doing pipeline or survey or banner towing either. So I was just wondering how much corporate BS fluency is expected at this level. Yes, I’m always going to need that skill later. I’m pretty sure the BS hurts at this level though, which is why I had to ask if that idea was wrong.

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SSMDive@reddit

Help almost never hurts. I work with a program to help transition Mil to civilian jobs. Many of these Mil people are highly qualified and highly skilled, but they have no idea how to handle a civilian interview. I ask them questions and they give horrible answers. For example, you are the E6 in charge of a shop and you suspect a new E1 came in from a hard night of partying, what do you do? I have been given answers like "Give him a broom and only let him sweep." So you "let him sweep" but while sweeping he trips and busts his front teeth out, or trips and knocks over a table full of really expensive avionics.... Nope. If you think they are drunk on the job you need to do more than cover for them. You can get away with that kinda stuff in the military but not in the corporate world. If you suspect they are drunk, you can't let them work because the liability is through the roof. Another person every question I would ask they were trying to shoehorn their answer into aviation. They were a 350 hour CFI trying to get a CFI job so most of their "aviation" answers were horrible - "I used good decision making by canceling a flight due to weather!" But they had 20 years of military experience, was an E7 that ran ordinance. I told them to think of that job and they gave me MUCH better answers that showed real decision making in complex situations. In their mind they needed to tailor every answer to aviation... Yeah that is ideal, but it is better to answer the question with a great answer than some lame aviation based answer. And with 350 hours of experience vs 20 years... It is not a contest. Now if you happen to have a great aviation story, use that... But if all you have is basic BS... Go to your experience. 1. This job related. 2. Other job related. 3. Personal experience. I often have to coach them into actually digging into the company and find a reason why they want to work there. Had a young female CFI had an interview with a school... I asked her the "Why do you want to work here?" And she could not answer. Now we all know that is a stupid question... But HR is going to ask stupid questions and you still have to answer them. In 10 seconds I was able to find out the school was owned by a female and that she had started it herself, not handed it by someone. So now she has an answer, "I was impressed reading XXXX's story about how she built this company herself and found it empowering and encouraging, I hope to be able to be a role model for some other woman like XXXX has been to me." Corny? Yep. Likely BS? Yep, but HR loved that answer. These are all things that the average 20-25 year old doesn't know.

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TheRoadto1500@reddit (OP)

That’s exactly what I’m asking, when does HR love the BS and whey do they not? I’m guessing she didn’t even know the female boss thing, right? Did HR believe her BS or do they know it’s BS but appreciate the creativity?

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SSMDive@reddit

HR ALWAYS LOVES THE BS... It is their job. "Tell me a time you had a conflict with a co-worker and how did you handle it?" If you need to answer that with a GOOD example. BS your answer as "I've never had a conflict, I'm a perfect employee!" and HR is going to laugh. Answer with, "I met him outside after work and beat his ass!!" And HR is not going to laugh, but maybe act nice and call security. You need to be able to show you were in a difficult position and managed a solution without violence. She didn't know the female boss thing... But I also didn't know till I was trying to help her interview prep. Took all of 10 seconds to google the company and find out. Walking into an interview without a shred of information about the company is a rookie move. It is not hard to find out something about an Airline and use it to answer the question. Why do you want to work for American? "I like the pay schedules" vs. "My degree is in Marketing and American Airlines is almost a master class in marketing by itself. The name and the Red White and Blue planes almost announce to the public that American Airlines is AMERICA'S AIRLINE. And I used to fly unaccompanied on American Airlines when I was a kid flying between my Parents and my Grandparents houses for summer break. The flight attendants were so kind and the flight crews were so professional... As soon as I decided I wanted to fly for a living, I knew I wanted to be with American." Why do you want to work for FedEx? "I like the idea of not dealing with customers." vs "Fred Smith has always been a visionary, he didn't create a company, he created an entire industry. And he is well know for his leadership in that industry and even before. Did you know Mr. Smith won a Sliver Star in Vietnam? He personally removed several injured Marines, controlled them returning fire, and directed artillery and air support... The man was a leader then and a leader at FedEx. My only regret is with him passing, I'll never get to meet the man." HR knows the first answers are the truth, but you can't use them and get very far. They want to hear the second ones. They show you have spent at least 10 seconds googling the company other than pay.

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ZOB_oo_land@reddit

Just look up some general flying-related HR questions and know how to answer them concisely but professionally. What makes a good instructor? When did you go above and beyond as an instructor/employee? Why did you fail this checkride? I care 60% about the actual answer and 40% about how you present it. You could have failed four checkrides and if you can be an adult about them, you're not necessarily going to the bottom of the stack. -Guy who interviews flight instructors

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TheRoadto1500@reddit (OP)

The other questions are fine, but the “when did you go above and beyond” question is where it starts to feel superficial to me. Nothing instinctly comes up, which feels to me like an indicator that having to prep an answer shows that I’m just trying to talk myself up. Maybe then it’s because I don’t go above and beyond one may say? Well, i’d disagree because I genuinely always do my best and I know I’ve gone above and beyond more than once (be the first at work, clean the aircraft…), but I wouldn’t be able to come up with an answer on the spot. I guess that’s where prep comes in handy? My point is, don’t you guys think when interviewing that someone who stumbles upon his words but provides a genuine answer better than someone who came with a canned one?

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MyPilotInterview@reddit

A good interview prep, doesn’t give you canned answers. We listen to your stories and help you develop it so it’s clear and concise and hits the points they’re looking for. The issue I typically find is pilots often go above and beyond but have a hard time talking about or selling themselves. When we get talking about it, and digging for answers, so many great stories come up that they can use.

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TheRoadto1500@reddit (OP)

makes sense. There’s another comment that talked about coming up with a fluffy answer after researching the company, and it worked. Is that ever a thing to consider? that’s what my understanding of prepping was before everyone else chimed in.

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MyPilotInterview@reddit

No, but we incorporate things into your answer to make them stronger, not fluffy. For instance, if you’re interviewing at Breeze and they ask, why Breeze. The before answer will often be like: I’m interested in Breeze because the base is commutable for me, and I’d like to be closer to home. It would make balancing work and personal life easier. The answer we developed: I’m drawn to the airline’s focus on kindness and ingenuity. Friends who fly here speak highly of the culture, the emphasis on safety, and how great the people are, both colleagues and passengers. I want to be part of that kind of team that focuses on safety, kindness, innovation as I believe those factors is what makes an airline great!!

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ZOB_oo_land@reddit

> don’t you guys think when interviewing that someone who stumbles upon his words but provides a genuine answer better than someone who came with a canned one? Absolutely I do, which is why I maybe stated my point poorly earlier. If you don't have a perfect answer, but present yourself professionally and find a way to tell me that you don't have a great answer for the question due to your limited work experience, but you have a solid work ethic and great references/results to back it up, you'll be fine. Also, I know it's shallow, but think harder. Any time you stayed late, got results beyond what was expected, etc etc. Even if it's small, it's a story.

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MyPilotInterview@reddit

I have been doing pilot interview prep for over 20 years. Here is my honest thoughts: Pilot hiring has a lot of flaws. The biggest one is the over influence of HR in the process. HR style questions have infiltrated the process and require pilots to learn a totally different skills (interviewing/sales) in order to get a job. If pilot hiring was pilot focused, you’d sit with a pilot have some hanger talk, and they can likely assess your skill and if you’d be a fit for the company culture. Historically, and when there is a lot of hiring in the 121 world, these issues didn’t filter down into the low time jobs. 10 years ago 100% of my clients were going to majors. However, over the past few years I have seen HR tendencies expand at all levels so i have people reaching out for CFI interviews. The nice thing is pilots are very coachable, and the techniques to make clear and concise answers are not difficult. I find with a 2 1hour sessions my guys are going in with confident, genuine answers. So it is an easy barrier to overcome. It is funny this came up, I am trialing a pay what you can model now my clients income varies so much.

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TheRoadto1500@reddit (OP)

Well, what actually prompted this is that I was looking into coaching and interview prep. The package I found was promising but pretty costly. It seems most programs hover around a couple thousand dollars and I don’t know many of us low-time guys able to put that down, when a job can’t really be guaranteed afterwards. And when we know at our level, it’s mostly about connections and personality, i wasn’t sure it would make sense. Just looking at any way for low-time pilots to get a leg up in this market!

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Magoo6541@reddit

I fly for a Pt 91, HNWI/family. There are only 3 of us so when we hire, the two pilots have to work together to find someone. All that to say, I’ve been a part of hiring. I have a list of probably 100 questions that I got from my time at NetJets. A lot of TMAAT and personality questions. I like to ask some simple, tell me about yourself, do you have a family, what hobbies do you enjoy. Generally, that’ll let me get to know you a little. Then I really like asking the tougher, tell me, when did you fail to provide good customer service and how did you recover from it. Tell me about a time when you had conflict between you and a customer or you and a team member and how did you get past it? The answer to a TMAAT question, should follow a basic format. STAR: Situation Task Action Result Personally, I hate it when the candidate doesn’t answer a TMAAT question fully. Depending on how the interview is going, I’ll cut it short after a bad answer or two and move on to the next candidate. Recognize though that I’m in a unique situation. We get 50+ applications for 1 job. Many 91k or 135 are getting many more applicants but there are many more openings. So interview prep. I agree with you that I also prefer honest and genuine answers. For me, interview prep has always been about thinking about situations and formatting the answer the best way BEFORE I’m sitting in the room with someone. When a question is asked, you should at least have 1 or 2 answers in your head to choose from. Sitting there without an answer or going “uhhhhh I can’t think of any specific answer at the moment” isn’t going to help you get that job.

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TheRoadto1500@reddit (OP)

Okay, this is where I have questions about if it ever gets too corporate-y. If someone says “I really haven’t thought about that”, why do you not like it? Is it because it shows the person just won’t fit with your culture? For example, I couldn’t tell you off the bat how I failed to provide good customer service and recovered. But I know I have at some point. I don’t think anyone could really come up with an answer to that question on the spot. If they do, they definitely prepped. And that’s where I’m wondering if prepping doesn’t take away the genuineness of a person? Although I understand in a corporate flight department, results matter more? I guess I just want to understand how a prepped candidate is better

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Magoo6541@reddit

So, it isn’t a huge deal to me that you can’t come up with something on the spot but we’re going to come back to it before we hang up the phone or before the interview ends. It can be something as simple as the passenger didn’t like the type of coffee we had in our stock. I called the FBO enroute and ordered their preferred coffee and had it delivered so that the passenger had their preferred drink for the limo ride to their meeting. Wow… that turns a disappointed customer into a loyal and happy customer and that’s the type of thinking I like. Not answering to me shows either deception or it’s someone who doesn’t think about their failures and how they can improve themselves or improve the organization. That’s the type of people that excel in corporate aviation… the thinkers and doers who want to excel and make their place a better place to be for themselves and their customers. It’s far more than flying. By the way… the person who we hired had a difficult time with my questions. His personality shined through and I got the feeling that I just put him on the spot and he had a hard time. I never let him off though. At the end of our phone interview I asked him again, when he came in for his in person interview, I asked him again in front of the owners and he came up with an answer. We’re also a captain only flight department. Our minimus are corporate experience and at least 3000 hours. The candidates have absolutely messed up once or ten times and should have some examples of their failures.

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TheRoadto1500@reddit (OP)

At the level you guys are operating, I absolutely would get why some sort of corporate *“fluffiness”* is necessary. It’s pretty cool to see there’s still leeway if you’re a solid person though, and it’s not just down to being corporate. And maybe my understand of what corporate is, is skewed too

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redditburner_5000@reddit

I used to hire pilots into what I considered "entry level" pt135 piston SE and ME positions with a development path to a ME turboprop (single pilot) and federal contracting. My perspective is dated, but I'm not sure that matters... First, I know why you want the job. Telling me it's because of the culture or "unique experience" is a lie and we all know it. You want hours and money, in that order. What I need to judge is whether or not you'll stick around so we can meet our contractual obligations -and- recoup the cost of onboarding, required training, and checking which costs labor hours and lots of 100LL, and maybe some Jet-A. It's one thing to get coaching on answers, it's another thing to get coaching on *how* to answer. It's pretty easy to see through a canned-answer act. I'm not expert, but body language is not that hard to read and I just don't trust a guy who is giving what I think are rigid, coached responses or responses I've heard a million times. You cannot forget to be a human being who is talking to other human beings. There's no magic set of responses that can be coached to bamboozle interviewers. You're either sincere and transparent or you come off as performative and rehearsed. It's okay to get coaching and give practiced responses, but you need to be **you** in the interview. Trying to mask you're personality will make for an awkward, weird talk. And "you know, I really don't know. I haven't thought about that..." is better than trying to force yourself to give a fumbled answer that you think someone wants to hear. We don't expect an entry level pilot to know everything or have considered everything. I only need to trust that you are what you are portraying yourself to be, and that you're being as transparent as you can. As far as HR (experience) questions, a 1,200hr CFI isn't going to have a ton of varied experience to fall back on. You haven't dealt with intense pressures and you won't have the "I was in solid IMC with a brand new FO going into a stacked up Class B, we were icing like a sonofabitch, and then the prop anti-ice failed..." story to give as an example. And that's fine. A hiring team looking for an entry level guy wants someone who can be given the job, do it safely, and continue to expand their personal minimums as they get more varied real-life experience. So, the age old advice of *just be you* is definitely the right advice. Answer what you can. Admit when you can't. Be personable. Be upfront. And if you say you're going to stay X months, do it. Leaving an employer holding the bag will make for some bad reputational ickyness. And it's a small community.

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TheRoadto1500@reddit (OP)

That’s how I approached every interview so far as a low-time guy. But my understanding was that, as you go up, you need to learn to play the corporate game and tell the company what they want to hear? It’s been really easy to apply for all these low-time jobs because sure, I want the hours, but I also really wanted to live the jump pilot or banner tow pilot experience. Now, thinking about flying turbine SIC-ing, it’s not as exciting but it’s gonna pay much better. I obviously can’t say that in an interview. Was I wrong to assume not every 135 want the honest version?

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Immediate_1200@reddit

Provide thoughtful answers but don’t come off as robotic or ingenious. People can see right through fake answers and body language!

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cpt_ppppp@reddit

I would 100% prep for these questions. It's not necessarily about sounding robotic, it's about reflecting on your life experiences and the lessons you have learned. That is almost impossible to do if you are trying to do it spontaneously under interview conditions.

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Dry-Engineering1776@reddit

Bump

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity: --- **What are your thoughts on interview prep?** I understand its place for the big birds: that jump demands preparation. But at the entry-level when it’s hours and personality first, do you have a preference for candidates who got some coaching beforehand? could you explain why? I’m not talking about learning how to answer the drunk captain question. I’m talking about the why you want to work here, why should we hire you, tell me about a time…, why you’re a better candidate than the others, what are your strenghts, weaknesses and so on During the interviews I’ve done, discussing flying stuff (drunk scenario, emergencies, what if…) comes naturally. No gouge? let’s roll. But when it comes to the “corporate” part, it doesn’t go as smoothly. I never prepped because i thought getting my answers crafted by someone else takes out the genuineness, and the interviewer would notice. But that’s flawed thinking because it’s not like the flying knowledge i acquired over the years that i say “comes naturally” is from me, it was from someone else. The few jobs I was offered so far were because they didn’t really have an HR portion, just flying, life experience and a casual conversation. So I guess what I’m asking is, would you recommend low-time pilots to do interview prep? If it isn’t clear, I think it should be the least of our worries as we hunt for jobs, but maybe I’m shooting myself in the foot. I want to start looking into 135 jobs anyway… --- Please downvote this comment until it collapses. Questions about this comment? [Please see this wiki post before contacting the mods](https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/wiki/index/rflyingtower/). --- I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please [contact the mods of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/flying).