Jaguar sales collapse 97 percent in Europe amid controversial rebrand and EV transition
Posted by NCSUGrad2012@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 311 comments
Salsalito_Turkey@reddit
Sales tend to collapse when you don't build anything to sell.
NCSUGrad2012@reddit (OP)
At this point just shut it down. What’s even the point?
Salsalito_Turkey@reddit
I have no idea. I love my Jag. Literally my favorite car I've ever owned. I understand it was a struggling company, but literally the only thing it had going for it was a somewhat unique brand identity, They should have rolled most of Jaguar's organization into Land Rover, but kept a small Jaguar team with a very limited lineup of 1 or 2 models, similar to the way Chevrolet has a Corvette team that does their own thing. Land Rover could continue printing money, and an all-new F-Type could have been the halo car that gets wealthy men into the showroom so you can sell their wife a Range Rover Velar.
Hypsar@reddit
As a 2018 XE 35T owner, I totally agree with you. I absolutely love this car, even if it is quirky. It is a driver's car in a way none of the Lexus or Mercedes I test drove were, and it has this mystique and unique class to it other import luxury cars do not.
Once I can afford to have a third car for the family, I absolutely plan to get an F-Type, but in the meantime, the XE is scratching that itch.
Keeping the F-Type in production makes 100% sense to me.
byGenn@reddit
“Men who want a luxury performance car but they don’t want to be just another nobody in a BWM or a Lexus” aren’t a large enough demographic to sustain a manufacturer.
It was either this or letting the brand continue bleeding out, but there really weren’t any other options.
Salsalito_Turkey@reddit
Which is exactly why I said they should have been rolled into Land Rover and the Jaguar brand should have persisted as nothing more than a single halo model to draw people into JLR showrooms. Did you just stop reading my comment after the first paragraph?
GoHuskies1984@reddit
To be fair doesn't this idea basically what the Jag rebrand is aiming to accomplish?
Jags will continue to be sold at JLR dealerships and sales volume will be low. It comes down to which will theoretically sell better; a low volume EV brand or a low volume brand of V12 powered luxury sedans.
dontpaytheransom@reddit
High priced EV’s are not doing well at all right now. This was a huge miss by Jag
neonxmoose99@reddit
I wish they still had V12s
FixTheWisz@reddit
Soon we'll all be saying that about V8s. Heck, I wouldn't be too surprised if we end up saying that about V6s while there are still some Gen X'ers kicking it in their old-folk-homes.
txmail@reddit
lol, reading down the comment chain. I literarily just said I miss the SCV6 they had in the XF and many other of their cars.
accordinglyryan@reddit
Shit I'm 27 and I lament the fact most normie cars don't have 6 cylinder engines anymore lol
ducky21@reddit
No, your thesis just sucks. The only times this works is for stuff like Maybach, Dinan, Alpina, etc. Those dudes at those prices can afford to have people buy a car every so often.
F-Types were not selling in enough volume to justify what you're talking about, and there is no G-Type they could dream up that would sell in enough numbers to matter. If you really want it to be a $300k bespoke halo car, you have to justify why I'm in a LandRover showroom buying a backroom Jag when I could just buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini and have way more brand cachet for the same money.
We read your post. It's just bad.
DrKhanMD@reddit
Also "we" read your post. It's just obnoxious.
PRSArchon@reddit
He clearly explained why its different for those brands.
ducky21@reddit
no, it's fine, it's more important that I'm dumb because I have the wrongthink
DrKhanMD@reddit
Ya coped a buncha downvote because you said:
"No, your thesis just sucks."
"We read your post. It's just bad."
Your opinion really aint some crazy thing, you just presented it like a douchebag.
ducky21@reddit
Well, damn, I didn't think that was that spicy but fair enough
DrKhanMD@reddit
Apparently r/cars is more of a "pico de gallo is too spicy" kinda crowd.
aponderingpanda@reddit
The guy you're responding to didn't initiate the assholishness.
DrKhanMD@reddit
I mean the entire explanation for why the other brands are different is, "Those dudes at those prices can afford to have people buy a car every so often"
I guess I can't say it aint clear, but it certainly lacks any depth beyond "this is my opinion" lol
ducky21@reddit
You're right, I inelegantly glossed over how small that market is, which is definitely the crux of my argument and without it the whole thing falls apart.
The Dinan/Alpina (two coachbuilders for BMW, the company that /u/Salsalito_Turkey themselves acknowledged as "the standard choice") market is very very small. So small that I think it's telling those coachbuilders are "coachbuilders" and not "manufacturers," because there's just not the volume for investors in a public company like JLR to give a shit about it.
ducky21@reddit
I can't make replies above your level because /u/Salsalito_Turkey blocked me for this post, but I genuinely don't understand the hate for me here.
/u/Salsalito_Turkey, in their post we're all replying to, acknowledges themselves that BMW and Lexus are the default choice for "sporty luxury" and "reliable, understated luxury." Every other marque has to carve out their own niche, whether that's Audi being "Not BMW," Mercedes being "Strip Club Simulator," or whatever, they have to convince you to buy their car at the exclusion of every other car.
Turkey's thesis is that Jag should go upmarket, into the space I pointed out is currently occupied by other small coachbuilders like Maybach, Dinan, and Alpina. But those are small, bit player. They sell a few thousand cars a year, and they're trading on name and prestige from coachbuilders that have been doing this for decades. They're also charging out the ass for that to make up for the lack of volume.
My broader point is that I don't think that market is big enough to support another player. There is no volume for anyone, at this price bracket competing on price is probably more of a liability than help, and Jaguar had nothing that would be competitive in that space with small tweaks, hence my comment about "there's no G-Type they could dream up" because what does a high end Alpina/Dinan fighter look like? It probably doesn't look like a gussied up XKE, because nobody was buying those to begin with and nobody is buying a $300k "Dinan'd" XKE for sure.
So, what could it be? A sports car? Why would you buy this Jag and not a Ferrari or Lamorghini, brands that exist to service this segment and literally nothing else?
None of it makes sense to me.
rustoof@reddit
Chalk me up as on DrKhan and Salsalitos team
For better or worse Jaguar had a signifigant amount of assets only useful for building cars, and appear to have wasted a lot of institutional knowledge here.
Also your reading comprehension and argument methods are pretty sophomoric
CousinsWithBenefits1@reddit
A single halo model isn't gonna sell the numbers to support an entire brand, babes. If it's cheap enough to move that volume it's not a halo car and if it's expensive enough to be a halo car it won't move enough volume to be profitable. Halo cars are money losers, not money makers.
SpiceyMcNuggets@reddit
Yeah so instead of a slow bleed they cut the jugular lol. They tried to appeal to an even smaller group that would never have interest in a Jag.
sonic_sabbath@reddit
God I fel your statement hard
Corsair4@reddit
Problem is, Land Rover doesnt need something to drive people into the dealership, they already have the Range Rover which does that just fine for the target demo.
Jaguar has finally discovered that being British cannot be the only selling point for a vehicle. Their problem is that they just let their cars sit unupdated too long. They may be in the same ball park as the german competitors on release, but then the Germans do a major update, and jaguar just sits around.
So if you want cutting edge, jaguar ain't it. If you want reliable, Jaguar REALLY ain't it. And simply being British isn't enough, and hasn't been for a long time.
Salsalito_Turkey@reddit
The Range Rover brand is a huge draw, to be sure, but LR undoubtedly loses a certain amount of sales to guys who go to the Porsche dealership to look at the 911 and end up buying a Macan or Cayenne.
I think it's myopic for any business to say "we don't need to attract any more customers than we already do" unless they literally can't keep their product in stock.
Corsair4@reddit
Porsche and Land Rover have brand draw.
For Jaguar to effectively siphon sales off Porsche, that would mean that the Jaguar brand needs to have similar standing to Porsche.
Jaguar just... doesnt. For decades, they have been synonymous with poorly built, unreliable luxury cars that don't stand out in any meaningful way, apart from being British. The XJ was a decent show, and then they let it sit and become outclassed by the competition, and then they waited another 5 years before killing it. They did thr same thing with the XE, and the XF, and the F type.
Pulling sales from Porsche means your brand and product needs to be competitive with Porsche. Land Rover built that cache over time. Jaguar threw theirs away.
paraatha@reddit
What nobody here seems to realise is that Jaguar is taking this direction so that they can make India one of their (if not only) primary markets. The Indian government just announced a massive tax break for trade from the UK, and India is going almost full EV, heavily taxing ICE vehicles.
This has all been planned. They'll lock in the luxury market in India and compete with BYD.
Corsair4@reddit
No they won't.
The Luxury market in India doesn't give a shit about Jaguar. That's mostly high end Mercs.
And BYD's success has been in the affordable EV space, something that Jaguar's 1 car is explicitly not targeting.
zeno0771@reddit
Since almost no one saw the irony in a British automaker like Jaguar building EVs, I'm sure even fewer see the irony in India having a tax break for trade with the UK.
FluffTheMagicRabbit@reddit
So, weirdly enough the invested loads into diesels just before dieselgate and made the bizarre Jaguar SUVs which at the time were seen as sacrilege. 10 years later, that's what everyone else is doing. The problem was these models were now pretty old, the platforms they were built on were positively ancient. Can't remember which one but there was something still being made on the X type platform which was an adaptation of the 1997 Ford Mondeo back when they were owned by Ford. Effectively making this thing a 90s Mondeo on stilts.
The I-Pace was a last ditch attempt to catch up with electric and actually did pretty well, using a new platform but still a variant.
They were gearing up to phase them out in favour of whole new modular platforms with cutting edge electronics packages, then COVID happened in 2020 and it hit them majorly. They cut everything immediately. Secondary to this, new international cyber security regulations were published in 2021 with an unexpectedly short deadline of Q2 2024 which swept the legs out of their older models, it was simply too much work to add yet another facelift to them and they also got canned, leaving only the I-Pace capable of being upgraded to pass regs and the upcoming models still on the drawing board.
Luckily for LR they'd been slated for the new models first, they were far enough along to survive the streamlining but I know a few potential enthusiast favourites got binned in favour of the core product mainstream offerings. The Jaguar models were too old and the new models too far away leaving them in the lurch. All of the potential evolutions of old Jaguar models got dropped.
tl;dr they were between a rock and a hard place due to unfortunate timing, the best bet was to take the hit and hope they could succeed with the future models.
praetor47@reddit
does this really happen in real life in this day and age? are there really people out there who go to a Porsche dealership looking to buy a 911, but end up walking out with a Macan?
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
According to my local Porsche and BMW dealerships, 100000% yes.
They say it's frequent for couples to come in, one of them looking at an M3/Cayman/911/etc. the other just along for the ride.
After a test drive the other spouse/partner wants a fun car, but doesn't want to commit to a sports car/smaller vehicle.
So they'll buy a Macan/X3M/Cayenne/X5/etc in addition to the 'fun' car.
Wish I could relate lol.
volmeistro@reddit
I think they meant they'd buy both like a his and hers deal which does happen
VFRTOM@reddit
Its not british anymore!! has not been since 2008 tata (india bought the company) yes some was made in the uk but not now
GoddamnIronTiger@reddit
Being British as marketing strategy gave me a chuckle. Mini really capitalized on that concept by being a german guy wearing a British flag t-shirt.
Viend@reddit
This worked because everyone respected the German guy named BMW and just enjoyed his quirk of pretending to be British.
Jaguar didn't because at the end of the day, it's still just a British guy.
GoddamnIronTiger@reddit
This sub doesn't allow images in comments and I don't know a better way to share this but I made a visual representation of your comparison
Viend@reddit
Hahaha that’s 100% accurate!
jlt6666@reddit
I'm now picturing a German man doing a Mrs. Doubtfire impression while getting into a mini.
"ack, herrooooo"
Bradymyhero@reddit
You sound like me as an Alfa Giulia owner.
With that being said, sorry to say the XE looks wholly generic, like one of those debadged luxury cars you'd see in an insurance commercial. The design inside and out are nothing memorable imo
Salsalito_Turkey@reddit
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you probably feel that way because most XEs on the road are boring black, white, or silver with a black leather interior, which really is an injustice to the car. Mine is British racing green with an oyster grey interior and IMO it's stunning in person. It puts a smile on my face every morning when I see it in the driveway.
SirLoremIpsum@reddit
It's funny you put Lexus there cause Lexus in the 90's / 2000's was "the luxury car for someone that didn't want to be another nobody in a BMW / Audit / Merc"
Aero06@reddit
If I were Jaguar, I'd make the E-Type the front-engined 911. Perfect a good, lightweight, well-handling platform and a solid drivetrain and just build it into perpetuity with minimal facelifts, frankly I think the E-Type is the one of the only cars iconic enough to support such a strategy. The F-Type came close to this, but I think the high curb weight and handling shortcomings prevented it from being the bonafide Carrera Fighter it should've been.
the_old_coday182@reddit
Disagree. The F-type is amazing, and I don’t think it could’ve been much better for the price. Of course the Porsches are nicer, but the 911 is another tax bracket. Jaguar reliability anecdotes from 20 years ago hurt sales more than anything just like every jag.
1dayHappy_1daySad@reddit
I own a F-Type (for years now). The cooling system is trash and not very reliable, (brittle plastic, underperforming thermostat, erratic fan behavior). Not just me, forums are full of theses issues.
It sounds great and looks very nice though, gets you a lot of attention.
the_old_coday182@reddit
I have an 3.0 XE, and it was just a matter of an upgraded/aluminum kit. Never worry about it again for a few hundred in parts.
1dayHappy_1daySad@reddit
I have the aluminum kit on, it then proceeded to break the other thinner ones. Luckily those were at the top of the engine and easier to access but still, incredibly annoying and made me be on alert about that lovely coolant smell
Mental_Medium3988@reddit
and for it to be manufactured with those parts wouldve been cheaper for jag to do. then it wouldnt have the expensive pr nightmare they are in now. and true they arent the only ones to move to plastic parts but in their position it hurts them the most.
Penguinho@reddit
I don't think it's reliability anecdotes from 20 years ago; I think it's reliability anecdotes from 20 years ago plus from right now. And it's positioned as a luxury car, not a sports car, and it's not very luxurious compared to competitors.
the_old_coday182@reddit
And I’m sure you’ve owned one and have experience? My mother sold her X-type to some college student after she drove it for 18+ years. My ‘17 is coming up on 80k miles, and it’s been as reliable as any other car I’ve owned. Actually… it didn have a coolant leak last year, which I procrastinated about and had it running low or filled with water for a few thousand miles (I suck)… and the 3.0 didn’t even care. 340hp supercharged, looks like sex on wheels. But people miss(ed) out on it because 1990’s Jags had electrical problems.
And the F-Type is more of a GT car, than luxury. But either way, the party piece is the exhaust note and the V8 (assuming you buy the right trim).
redditatworkatreddit@reddit
X-type is a Ford Mondeo LMAO that's why it's reliable
Ufccasual11@reddit
Don’t need to own one to read reliability anecdotes on the forums
the_old_coday182@reddit
People tend to not post about their problem free experiences. Goes for any brand.
Ufccasual11@reddit
Yeah that’s definitely true, but the overall sentiment on the forums compared scared me off of buying a used F-Type R when I was shopping. It’s still in consideration for me if I could get an exclusionary warranty on it like MaxCare
Penguinho@reddit
No, I don't, but I've been looking at them because the used pricepoint makes them cross-shoppable with used Caymans/Boxsters, Mustangs, C6/7 Corvettes and new Miatas, BRZs and GR86s. My neighbor used to be in the service shop at the local dealer, though, and has some horror stories (which he also has, in fairness, for Audis and Lamborghini).
Zhombe@reddit
Except the reason you don’t see them anymore Is because they were so unreliable nobody kept them and the second owners if any junked it.
TangerineBroad4604@reddit
The F-Type is actually a really reliable Jag product.
1dayHappy_1daySad@reddit
I own one, maybe compared to other modern Jags? Overall it has not been horrible, but certainly less reliable than an M3 for example. Most problems are around the whole cooling system (different bits of it gave me problems, forums are full of these too)
TangerineBroad4604@reddit
Maybe the very early model years, and yes there's that coolant bit around the 50k mark, but other than replacing that I've had no issues in 8 years and almost 60k miles of ownership, and many other F-Type owners I've read have similarly few problems.
Aero06@reddit
But if they'd priced it at $10k more, would it have been worth it in the long run for a product that truly gave the 911 a run for its money? I often think about the 3.0 F-Type, how if they'd given it a proper, lighter V6 that could've been mounted much closer to center instead of the heavy AJ126 it ended up with, could've tipped the scales into making it a better-handling track offering. I think there was obvious room for improvement with the F-Type, but we'll probably never know how much better it feasibly could've been and if those improvements would've meaningfully translated into real sales.
the_old_coday182@reddit
Yeah, it’s just a market and target audience thing. The 911 has that “exotic factor” Once you’re in that price bracket, it would be hard to go with the “off brand” (not really but you know what I mean). Kind of like the new NSX… sweet car, but a lot of people aren’t looking for an Acura in that price point. F-Type is just a great fit for the money, IMO.
Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho@reddit
The F-type was good, but there has been a major nostalgic trend in our culture for a long time, that doesn’t look like it’s going away. A modern, retro E-type, with the same engine, would almost undoubtedly be popular.
thatguyfromnickelbac@reddit
There was a C type and a D type prior to the E type, so the F type name only made sense. Personally, if I were in the market for a 911, i would cross shop an F type, and I could see myself owning one someday.
txmail@reddit
I would love to get a new XF, but I want that supercharged v6, not a turbo four cylinder with high boost that will eventually tear it apart.
ANJ-2233@reddit
Sensible suggestion.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
The problem is Defender taken that place, it's actual real halo car for JLR dealership. Halo car does attract car buyers but not you favorite roadster and sports car anymore, sorry.
You don't wonder why Ford bringing Bronco because Mustang is getting hard to attract buyers. You don't wonder why Mercedes considers to expend their G-Wagon lineup, and they decrease their roadster lineup( No more SLC, and AMG GT and SL just same car with convertible option or not ) because most people in today like and buy these off-roader.
Multifaceted-Simp@reddit
I had that jag with a vap tune, lots of fun but shoddy build quality
JB_UK@reddit
Isn’t that what they are doing? The reason why they’re not worried about not making any cars is presumably because the actual financial health of the company is based on Range Rovers. I presume all the Jags will be based on development done for range rovers, and there seem like some decent shared characteristics, torque and refined suspension.
sonrisa_medusa@reddit
The few Jag drivers I knew were all women.
dustygator@reddit
Couldn't but think of SavageGeese's review of the F-Type R
TzarKazm@reddit
There might be something to this. Having a Jaguar has meant that women will actually cone up to me to talk about the car. My other cars it's always men.
ProjectZeus4000@reddit
You clearly have no idea how the company works
This was already done about 15 years ago. They are already the same company.
This headline is stupid and the article is stupid. Jlr not selling any Jaguar branded models at the moment is not big deal in the same way it wasn't a big deal when they weren't selling any defender branded models.
Then they launched the new defender, everyone on the internet criticised it and said they should have kept it like the old days, and now it sells huge amounts.
strongmanass@reddit
I think they doubled both the price and the sales volume. People can criticize the JLR board all they want, but they're clearly not stupid.
ProjectZeus4000@reddit
These people onine compalin that the cars are mosre important than stupid branding yet are raging about the branding.
Others on the internet think they know better and say that Jaguar just needed to focus on reliabilty, and that there isnt enough rich people in their target demographic.
Imagine telling JLR, makers of the range rover that there's no money selling in minimalist design driven, questionable reliabilty cars for over 100k.
PurchaseStreet9991@reddit
“My Jaguar has more character than a BMW because BMW caved and now meets modern reliability standards”
Cmon man you’re driving a $15k car, let’s stop acting like we’re talking about some pinnacles of automotive engineering
the_old_coday182@reddit
They just don’t understand, my dude.
woowoo293@reddit
Their intention is to convert to an ultra-premium, low-volume brand. Given that, essentially pausing the company for a while makes sense. It wouldn't make sense to go from a regular luxury brand to a ultra-premium brand over night.
However, what doesn't make sense is preceding this pivot by allowing your cars to be the fleet vehicles for Waymo. Going from "we are self-driving taxis" to "we are basically ferrari" requires some suspension of belief.
Donny-5454@reddit
Go woke, get broke!
smitleyjd@reddit
Unfortunately Jaguar has turned into "at least it's not Maserati" in the used market. People who want the look but can't afford the maintenance.
All the time at my work we see used jag crossovers someone bought for cheap then they find out how expensive it is to fix.
They're seen as below land rover, and below equivalent Mercedes/bmw/audi models, although they might not compete in the exact same markets
10 years ago Jaguar meant performance with luxury. While competing brands were supposed to be luxury with performance. Well the other brands caught up on the performance. And Jaguar stayed the same.
strongmanass@reddit
Two separate eras. That Waymo contract was signed long before the Re-Imagine strategy was conceived. Unless Jaguar want to buy back those I-Paces and crush them, what's done is done.
It's more like "we are a more interesting alternative to your S-class or 7 series" like how a Range Rover is a more interesting alternative to a GLS/X7 (except there it's not the alternative, it's the standard).
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
Their leadership thinks there's a market they can capture. From a consumer perspective, I'd like to see them give it a shot. More options are nice.
From a corporate perspective, the EV transition will be expensive, it makes sense to me that Tata use Land Rover as a sort of baseload for revenue, while using Jag to try and build an EV business. Jag buyers seem like a less risk-averse demographic to me.
0b111111100001@reddit
Why do you guys like killing brands you do not like? The more the merrier.
RBeck@reddit
Did GM really need 4 brands selling the same reskins?
SquareTarbooj@reddit
We don't like it mate. It's just that sometimes the writings on the wall, and if the brand doesn't have a magic rabbit to pull out of a hat, they're joining Jensen, Rover, Morris and Austin in the graveyard of British icons.
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0b111111100001@reddit
I hear you. It's just also sad. All those brands you listed are gone, some of them might have turned it around. More variety
the_lamou@reddit
The point is that they're retooling to start new production, which takes time for a big company with tons of production capacity (e.g. Chevy shut down lines for months to retool for the new mid-engine Corvette) and much more time when you've never sold enough cars to be anything more than a rounding error compared to the other luxury European brands.
They have a plan, they're executing on it, and it takes time because shockingly swinging a major production shift around doesn't happen overnight. Crazy, I know.
woodsides@reddit
They're launching their EV next year. Until they're just clearing out whatever inventory in left in the pipeline.
RangeRoverHSE@reddit
The way that everyone seems to have an opinion about Jaguar despite seemingly none of them having done even 30 seconds of research is hilarious and sad.
SpecialGuestDJ@reddit
That’s exactly what they did?
Jag has stopped all production lines as of December 2024, is selling through existing inventory, and starting production as a 100% EV manufacturer.
InZomnia365@reddit
Money. That's the point.
Not that they're doing particularly well in that respect at the moment... But still.
strongmanass@reddit
To identify a new kind of buyer in a new segment by doing something different.
billythygoat@reddit
They could just become an ev only brand, would be smart to pivot to that
stinx2001@reddit
I think that was their plan but luxury EVs aren't selling so well so not sure what they're going to do.
nevergonnastawp@reddit
Theyre gonna pivot into selling real estate in the metaverse
MaroonIsBestColor@reddit
At this point, it’s almost all ready dead.
Own-Possibility2763@reddit
You can't keep building cars to sell, if you can't sell the cars you've already built.
T-Baaller@reddit
This is the dumbest article to be this upvoted.
thescouselander@reddit
Certainly a bold strategy for a manufacturing company!
mazi710@reddit
Yeah I feel like "transition" means from one thing to another thing. But I guess it can also mean from something to nothing.
JudiciousSasquatch@reddit
Had its moment in the states, too. Headline makes it seem like sales are dropping due to lack of demand, not lack of supply.
FourEyesAndThighs@reddit
240 miles on a good day for $80,000 is terrible in today’s non-Tesla market. It self suicided based on cost and engineering alone.
pale_blue_problem@reddit
Ross and Rachel were in a transition.
pezman@reddit
yeah how is this an article, there aren’t any cars for them to sell lol
rsong965@reddit
For real. Hate these stupid AF headlines. And the dumb people who can't put two and two together.
Hrmerder@reddit
And make literally the quickest adobe illustrator cartoon car as a concept and then tell people to shut up when they laugh about it.
ShadowGLI@reddit
Yeah they said they were taking a hiatus to retool and reemerge.
Seems pretty expected.
yktoday@reddit
Well, one of the most unreliable brands ever can't sell cars anymore, hence the brand shutting down. Good. Crap anyway
No_Researcher_5723@reddit
tako i treba jarane moj u pm
nameresus@reddit
Not surprising at all.
atomicskiracer@reddit
Why is this an article? They’re not producing cars presently.
Santa_Ricotta69@reddit
Because they want to blame it on woke, and they think we're dumb idiots who don't know better.
FledglingNonCon@reddit
To be fair, there are basically infinite free internet points to be collected by finding new opportunities to say "go woke, go broke". No doubt media outlets know it's a low effort way to grab tons of clicks.
SuppliceVI@reddit
In fairness this is the one time I think you can blame it on woke (or rather the attempt to chase it for marketing).
The rebrand, even by modern day reinventing standards, is horrific. Teasers had nothing to do with the car. The only "new Jaguar" example is a low production prototype of the XJ which has had very negative reactions for performance and aesthetic. Even sharing the name with it as a now-EV harkons to the Mach-E which also gained hate for its reuse of the Mustang brand. Not to mention them tossing a neat century long logo and emblem.
They were at their best at the start of the Tata era when Jaguar had an image and everything had a V8.
nugeythefloozey@reddit
The only reason they made the radical pivot they did is because the brand was already close to dead. Jaguar was an old man’s car, and that just wasn’t selling vehicles. This big refresh to target younger, more socially conscious buyers is a last-gasp effort to save the company. It probably won’t work, but not changing with the times was not an option for them
AffectionateBrain613@reddit
How is it an “old mans” car? Jaguar makes a shitty unreliable car but its image is (was) undeniably sexy, exclusive and cool.
Impossible-Name-2165@reddit
I was 28 and got a used 2011 XFR in 2016. That car was so cool. It had the feel of old classic luxury with speed and a modern flair. It was so sick. They needed to keep that feel. Maybe some people thought it was for old men but that car did not feel old at all. It looked cooler than an M4 Or C63. Instead they modernized and, personally, I feel Jaguar started to lose its identity then.
SuppliceVI@reddit
They tried to soft pivot prior with ads featuring younger people but their actual vehicles didn't.
There was no massive ad campaign for the F-Type and certainly no interest in pushing the XE Project 8. They only advertised "family" cars (F/E Pace), and it didn't help that they looked relatively uninspired. The ones that had character (such as the XF Shooting Brake) never got true performance packages, which is a shame because the AJ-V8 G.3 was bulletproof and easily the most reliable part of the car.
Their sales were actually tripled around 2017-2019 in the US but they simply couldn't recover from the post-covid economy.
I do enjoy seeing their I-Paces around used by Waymo though
budgefrankly@reddit
This is wild revisionism.
Not only did the pay to have it prominently featured in the James Bond movies Die Another Day and later Spectre as the bad-guy's alternative to an Aston
And in parallel they produces a series a series of high-quality ads (here's the most famous one) starring Mark Strong and Tom Hiddleston talking about how it was the British "villain's" car.
CoastCultural4482@reddit
i mean we're just looking at sales within the past year. They still have cars they have to sell and haven't. Most likely because jaguars are terrible cars.
Salsalito_Turkey@reddit
I'm perfectly fine blaming it on woke. They're not building any cars or making any money because they're in the middle of a massive rebranding and repositioning, that rebranding and repositioning is like a case study in woke marketing gone wrong.
Logitech4873@reddit
Define "woke".
Viend@reddit
Ah yes, the woke agenda is all about electrifying cars and destroying companies like Tesla, BYD, Lucid and Rivian.
Metro29993@reddit
Yeah that's not "woke", that's just incompetence. They're not losing sales because of EVs (assuming that's what you mean by "woke"), they're losing sales cause they haven't made any cars recently.
Salsalito_Turkey@reddit
"Woke" is the embrace of ESG scoring, which is what drove their headlong dive off a cliff into a money-losing EV venture. "Woke" is their abandonment of their historical core target market (wealthy men over 35) in favor of a rebranding and marketing campaign full of androgynous models and avant-garde surrealist visuals that have absolutely no appeal to the most frequent buyers of luxury EVs (wealthy men over 35).
PanadaTM@reddit
Jaguar was a failing brand before the rebrand, so what's your point? No wealthy person besides a British 80 year old man wants to own a Jag
plsnoban1122@reddit
I don't think marketing to old men was working so well for them lol. That's why they changed it up in the first place; if you think the rebrand was driven by anything but the desire for money, you're mistaken
Salsalito_Turkey@reddit
It was absolutely a driven by a desire to make money. The "woke" worldview is what led them to believe there was some vast sea of untapped demand for the iconoclastic post-gender all-electric identity they settled on.
Exact_Mastodon_7803@reddit
Nothing to do with “woke”. God you guys are insufferable. You’re worse than the supposed folks you’re blaming. Jaguar ain’t making shit, nothing to do with branding or not. Nothing to do with your little right-wing / Rogan / bro-fueled view of the world.
Metro29993@reddit
Yeah still not getting how that's "woke". Y'all will blame wokeness for everything when a lot of it can just be explained by incompetence. Jaguar should not have planned to become a full EV company, plain and simple. Almost every other carmaker is doing ICE, hybrids, and EVs, not just EVs. While I agree their rebranding and abandoning their target market is true, I also don't get how that's not also incompetence instead of woke.
Also seriously, how tf is "avant-garde surrealist visuals" related to being woke. That's just bad marketing. At this point woke just means whatever conservatives don't like, which seems to be damn near everything nowadays.
Val_Allah@reddit
I think they're one of those oldheads who call anything they dislike "woke"
ducky21@reddit
"woke" is things /u/Salsalito_Turkey doesn't like and that changes when they do something they do like, so that it will then not be woke
Oatbagtime@reddit
Like I’ve heard there are other brands happily selling plenty of electrics. Maybe I was mistaken!
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
Ngl, you’re being a little gay…
PurchaseStreet9991@reddit
Bros absolutely punching air rn reading this lol
Niyeaux@reddit
you sound dumber than a bag of rocks in this comment my man
Salsalito_Turkey@reddit
Oh my god! All it took was your one comment and every opinion I've ever held has been shattered into a million pieces! I thought I had everything figured out, but a redditor called me dumb and now I'm lost at sea without a sail! What shall I do?!
Exact_Mastodon_7803@reddit
How freaking old are you, dude?? You sound extremely insecure.
ur_sexy_body_double@reddit
Jaguar should be more like that time they were massively profitable, oh wait
Salsalito_Turkey@reddit
If you're actually interested in discussing Jaguar's business situation and not just ejaculating typical reddit snark, see my other comment.
ur_sexy_body_double@reddit
Neither of us run a car company and I'm willing to be we're both enthusiasts but not in the industry. A handful of flutes I follow in the UK who do know the industry (Smith & Sniff and The Intercooler) have made it clear that Jag's last ditch effort to save the company means targeting younger car buyers. I'm paraphrasing when the idea is that you cannot sell an old person's car to young people but you can sell a young person's car to old people. Essentially, that one teaser Jag did was aimed at a young, hip audience. Stuffy, old Jag customers won't like it but there aren't enough of them to keep the company going. I don't know why you called their marketing campaign woke. Feel free to elaborate, or don't, I don't care because it's a stupid comment.
atomicskiracer@reddit
Is the woke in the room with us now? Such snowflakes.
Captain_Albern@reddit
Judging by the other comments, they're not totally wrong...
40490FDA@reddit
If they spun down production so they can electrify their products due to a climate change goal then that would be woke
44-MAGANUM@reddit
The sales drop was figured from vehicle registrations, which has nothing to do with production. That means existing inventory isnt moving.
budgefrankly@reddit
Or it means there is no inventory left.
atomicskiracer@reddit
A significant amount of their vehicles have been out of production for a year, with the remaining six months. Did you expect registrations to be consistent from then to now? 😂
TheOneKnownAsMonk@reddit
Because journalism has become lazy. There's no money in true thoughtful journalism, investigation and quality articles when most people don't get past the headline.
dragonitexy@reddit
Look at the discourse on social media, specifically X. It's disgusting
AmazonPuncher@reddit
What? People disagreeing with your world view is disgusting?
verdegrrl@reddit
No insults. Thanks.
Mafeking-Parade@reddit
Why are people so thick?
Why are people taken in by such a terrible article?
Jaguar are not building or selling cars at the moment, as they transition to EV.
Of course you'd expect their sales to collapse if they aren't building or selling cars. That's what tends to happen.
The sheer number of thickos who've decided that this sales collapse is because they've gone "woke" or similar is just depressing.
Be smarter, people.
weggavin@reddit
Indians no clue on how to build cars. All Tatas vehicles are shit
woodsides@reddit
It's because they shut down production. No shit Sherlock.
Tasty_fries@reddit
Exactly, the only reason there are any sales at all is that they’re still trickling through the remaining inventory from factory lots.
The “new” Jags we have been receiving are still 2024 or 2025 models with build dates as far back as May of last year.
7148675309@reddit
How are you receiving such old cars as new?
I bought a new car at the end of May - it had literally arrived on the lot that day and had a May 2025 build date.
AKADriver@reddit
A lot of the time when a manufacturer plans to retool an entire factory, as they presumably would when switching to all new EV platforms that share nothing with their old cars, they'll rush out a ton of inventory before shutting down to fill the gap knowing it will take ages to sell out, especially for an outgoing model.
SavageryRox@reddit
some cars just don't sell well either. There are many models that commonly have a "birthday" on the lot. Some examples on this list. The Q4 e-tron has a 388 days supply at dealer lots.
8P69SYKUAGeGjgq@reddit
Huh seeing Q4s for the same price as my ID4 last year kinda hurts, but then again those are all built in Germany so no $7500 discount I guess.
Tasty_fries@reddit
I suppose it’s just how they’ve decided to do things to give them time to switch all of the factory equipment for EVs.
Because of the age of these vehicles, we actually have to do a lot more work to get them ready for delivery including oil changes, replacing O2 sensors, and sometimes brakes/lines. All of this is recognized and supported by JLR and we get reimbursed for it.
7148675309@reddit
So the car has been sitting in field somewhere - either the UK or here for a year? And are they still sold as new cars? if it is a 2024 model then even if someone doesn’t look at the build date they know it is at least a year old.
I have owned 4 new cars - I have always looked at the build date on the door jam - as I say my current car was literally off the factory floor with a same month build date but the oldest was 3 months.
Tasty_fries@reddit
Yup. If you ask me there are a number of reasons not to buy a Jag, so I guess if you are already ignoring all of those then you should be able to overlook the build date situation.
woodsides@reddit
Assuming you're at a JLR dealer, do you have any form information about the when the EV is arriving, it's price point, etc?
strongmanass@reddit
Released late this year for sale late next year, price point ~£100-120K, so probably $120-150K US. I'm not affiliated with JLR; all of this is public information.
woodsides@reddit
Honestly cheaper than I'd assumed. I thought that they'll target the Bentley Continental GT and it's kind at the 250k+ price point. The design looks to be super radical, especially for a car of that segment. What does it even compete with at that price point? AMG SL, GT, 911 and M8? Let's see how it pans out.
strongmanass@reddit
Yeah it was a collective journalism cock-up. It likely all stemmed from this 2021 interview where the then-CEO directly said "first it’s price. Luxury starts not far from £100,000" and despite that the author insisted Jaguar was going to compete with Bentley. And despite the two subsequent heads of the brand corroborating that price, news media have run with the story that Jaguar will be a Bentley competitor, and some even claim they're aiming at the Rolls Royce Spectre. Misinformation abounds.
As for what it will compete with, that's where it gets interesting and where I'll concede there may be a similarity in approach to Bentley (but still not a direct competitor). At the £100K price point you have the S-class, 7 series/i7, A8, EQS, Panamera, M8, Audi RS7, AMG GT 4 door, Taycan, and e-Tron GT. But those cars really focus on either luxury or performance - e.g. the AMG GT 4 door is on the E-class chassis and the 8 series feels more like a 5 than a 7 series. The only luxury sedan that truly does both IMO is the Bentley Flying Spur (and to a lesser extent, the Panamera on the same platform). It's as comfortable as an S-class but more dynamic.
Based on how Jaguar have been talking about the Type 00 production model, I get the impression they're trying to strike that balance in a way that the other sedans at that price point don't. If they can and if they can keep the radical design and those interior materials, IMO it will be by far the most interesting option at that price point and well worth buying over the Germans.
the_lamou@reddit
The issue is that while they were very clear that they were going to price in the 100k-150k range, they also mentioned that they were benchmarking Bentley and Rolls (with one of the designers or engineers, I think, having actually been the head of the last Rolls redesign. And given that the vast majority of automotive journalist are basically morons (and I say this with fondness, as I know a number of them professionally), they all focused in on "Jaguar wants to be electric Rolls Royce!"
And once one or two real auto outlets mentioned that, all the third-tier publications that basically just rewrite first-tier articles and pass them off as original started putting out "electric Rolls Royce" stories. And then that completely flooded out the news so that the original point got completely lost.
Jag was benchmarking Bentley and Royce, the same way that the Kia Stinger GT was benchmarking the M3 Competition: it was never going to be anywhere near the price, but the goal was to get 85% of the experience at 65% of the cost. Which I think is Jag's approach here. Make something that feels 85% like a Rolls Royce or Bentley, but at a way lower price point.
strongmanass@reddit
Good points all round. I try to give auto journalists the benefit of the doubt because their field is constantly under attack, but all I can think is if my work output was similar to the incorrect information I see published a lot, I'd be fired.
JLR have mastered the "85% like a Rolls Royce or Bentley, but at a way lower price point" approach with Range Rover. We'll see if they can get it right with Jaguar.
44-MAGANUM@reddit
The sales drop was figured from registrations, which has nothing to do with production.
Tasty_fries@reddit
It was also more specifically registrations in the UK, where Jaguar has entirely stopped selling new cars despite remaining factory inventory.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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Unusual-Working-1770@reddit
Hold my Budlight!
average_waffle@reddit
I think this has less to do with the rebrand and more to do with the fact that they don't make any cars to sell. The rebrand was weird but it's also the most anyone has talked about jaguar in like 30 years.
Paavihyvis@reddit
But 97 percent drop is still 97 percent drop regardles of the reason.
JustGarlicThings2@reddit
Jaguar won Formula E last year but I think most people’s reaction to that is “What's Formula E?”. Actually that’s not true, most people’s reaction was nothing because nobody cared; one slightly too weird perfume-like advert though and the internet loses its mind.
strongmanass@reddit
It's been so hilariously misunderstood in car circles. Everyone seems to think it's "woke" and appealing to LGBTQ+ when in reality it's aimed at people who are used to receiving and respond positively to marketing media in the form of androgynous avant-garde luxury, like perfume or high fashion.
Trades46@reddit
I've seen a lot of criticism of how Volvo under Geely is, but honestly watching Jaguar die under Tata probably hurts a lot more in retrospect.
doctrdanger@reddit
I mean LR is thriving.
Jag was always a dying brand. It lasted longer than expected.
It may actually pull off a rebirth. Let's wait and watch.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
They could bit higher price to sell Jag to one of these Chinese automakers and let these Chinese automakers to clean their shits.
budgefrankly@reddit
Jaguar has been under Tata for 17 years.
It was Tata that head-hunted Ian McCallum away from TVR/Aston Martin and had him design the new F-Type. They also poured huge amounts of money into Jag's R&D and manufacturing. It was also Tata money that funded a huge marketing campaign based around the new F-type, tying it in with a James Bond movie.
The problem is that the F-Type ended up in a no-man's land between a budget Miata on one side, and an Aston on the other, and no-one bought them.
The same as true for the rest of the line-up: beautiful, but fundamentally unpopular.
AmazonPuncher@reddit
I'd love an f-type, but I'm not buying a v6 or an automatic v8. Just a downright stupid decision on their part.
Bradymyhero@reddit
Ngl leftover new F types on dealer lots are compelling..they don't move and get plenty cash on the hood.
With that being said, still not convinced a new F type is a smart buy when a CPO one will likely still be significantly cheaper.
Anglojew@reddit
Tranny shit
Boundish91@reddit
Well they intentionally stopped production. This isn't news.
Let's give them time to cook and then we'll see what the finished production models look like before dooming them.
Chrodesk@reddit
lease rotation is HUGE for luxury makers.
So these are buyers that wont come back easily.
This is the sort of thing that precipitates the end of a brand.
strongmanass@reddit
Jaguar expect 85% of buyers of the upcoming range to be new to the brand. They're not bothered about losing existing lessees.
Angry_Robot@reddit
“We’ll just replace the old customers with newer, better customers” they confidently declared shortly before going bankrupt.
strongmanass@reddit
Well the old customers were too old and there weren't enough of them. And JLR isn't going bankrupt any time soon. They just had record profits.
Chrodesk@reddit
record profits are a warning.
you make record profits when you stop investing in future models
strongmanass@reddit
Investing in future models...like a whole new lineup of EVs built completely from scratch from the Jaguar brand?
Chrodesk@reddit
any evidence of this actually taking place beyond press releases?
strongmanass@reddit
The production version of Type 00 has been spotted in testing. This is all part of the Re-Imagine plan that was approved by the JLR board in 2021. You can also find it in their financial statements.
Chrodesk@reddit
$150,000 EV sedan.
the most out of touch 3 words ever put together.
they'll sell dozens
strongmanass@reddit
Porsche sold over 100,000 Taycans in the first 3 years. Jaguar only expect to sell about 15,000 of theirs over the same period.
Chrodesk@reddit
globally? taycan only sold 20k globally last year, 10k in the US. both are dog shit numbers.
i7 sold 888 in the 1st quarter in the US...
Jaguar wont be saved with 10,000 sales a year.
strongmanass@reddit
Last year's Taycan numbers were an anomaly. But even then that's still more than what JLR expect of the Type 00 production model. The i7's US Q1 sales figures for 2025 are not relevant. What is relevant is a full year's global figures, which is what I was referring to.
JLR's sales goal for the sum total of Jaguar's entire upcoming three-model range is 48,000 units per year globally. So 10,000 units of the Type 00 production model wouldn't be far out of line with expectations.
Angry_Robot@reddit
I mean, not thanks to Jaguar. I guess the other divisions can continue to bail out Jaguar indefinitely.
MoyesNTheHood@reddit
The old customer base was shrinking. Farty old men are a dying breed
SuckEmOff@reddit
The endless pursuit of the modern consumer. That’s an unfathomably stupid business idea.
harvardlawii@reddit
Go woke , go broke.
AFB27@reddit
I can't believe they thought that was going to work
jihadu@reddit
The rebrand sucks ass and completely destroyed the brands identity, but if there's no cars for sale, it's normal to not sell cars.
slowmoE30@reddit
The author is trying to pin the sales collapse on the rebrand because they think it's too "woke," when we know it's because they also shut down production.
Top-Profile-4570@reddit
Because the wokesters killed the momentum
Top-Profile-4570@reddit
How will Reddit spin this
JasonYEG@reddit
I'll stick to fossil fuel power.
chromejockpsycho@reddit
I think they look cool but I also could never afford a new jaguar so maybe that’s the problem
Bradymyhero@reddit
Really not sure if this all-EV upmarket thing will work for them, but clearly aiming to compete with the BMW Mercedes Lexus of the world did not pan out.
In my estmation, every high-end luxury EV seems to be selling poorly and depreciate heavily. The RR Spectre is the exception, but RR is in its own class of vehicle and customer.
Reaps21@reddit
Poor Jag, I love Jaguar and I thought that pre rebrand they make some gorgeous cars. Hell I'm currently in the market for a convertible F-Type R as a weekender
TzarKazm@reddit
I have one, its fantastic. Its more GT than Porsche, but its way faster than a base Cayman, and way cheaper than a 911.
Reaps21@reddit
How is maintenance? I'm specifically looking for a '16-'18 so I can get the pre-update to the exhaust.
My last weekender was a Cayman GTS and that thing was always broken, but it was also double the price of an F-Type.
TzarKazm@reddit
So far 5 years, nothing but oil changes. (Only 30k miles though)
ainsley-@reddit
Conveniently left out the part where they have stopped production for the last year… fucking worst journalism on earth
VFRTOM@reddit
They have messed up big time! customers will go elsewhere if you go into a dealership and you have nothing to sell lol you can't just stop production for a year + and think customers will come back...
Scazitar@reddit
The most extreme of extreme clickbait whoever wrote this is a jackets.
They literally stopped selling cars while their working on the rebrand.
VFRTOM@reddit
You cannot just stop production though its going to lead to jaguars collapse lol no money coming in is stupid...
Vegetable-Dare-3896@reddit
97% down from what point, the brand was finished already...its easy to say 97%
GeneralCommand4459@reddit
Saab sales have also collapsed...
Professor_Poop@reddit
Saab was such a better brand.
TzarKazm@reddit
Oh no! Thats terrible! When did that happen?
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Where I can buy new Saab ? In Sweden ? I want to buy NLAW because it's great ant-tank weapon.
Sevisstillonkashyyyk@reddit
Yeah they'll sell you a Gripen
FourEyesAndThighs@reddit
Kidding aside, there was an attempt to revive the Saab brand. It failed 😞
obiwan_canoli@reddit
This is why multi-million dollar companies don't take risks.
Fluffy-Confusion-902@reddit
It does not help that the concept design of the new midel is awful to look at. When all is said and done, most buyers don't plump for an ugly car.
Mycatspiss@reddit
The rebrand was full of virtue though! Kudos
Nzash@reddit
Realtor near me dailies a nice F-Type (V8) and I always look at it when I see it, it's just a very nice car. But of course there are also other nice cars you could get used for 50k Euros+
CarolinaGrad@reddit
What did they do?!?!
austinzone813@reddit
They took entered the "DEI Rebrand" challenge and won.
CarolinaGrad@reddit
lol
Quaiche@reddit
They’re not producing anything so it’s not exactly surprising.
Shrrq@reddit
What are they even selling at this point? Our local JLR dealership basically has zero Jags available. There may be some leases returning in a year or two, but that’s it.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
they aren't selling anything, jag haven't made a car in months, it's just the odd f-pace left in inventory, any and all of these articles complaining collapse are bs
jermainiac007@reddit
Obvious why more didn't go for it really, look at it, it's an ugly bloated SUV.
unrulyautopilot@reddit
Couldn’t agree more. It’s a hell of a car and sounds so much better than the competition.
bindermichi@reddit
They have stopped to produce most models last year. Only the F-Pace was made until early this year
wearethafuture@reddit
Sure, the rebranding was total ass, but the bigger reason is that the line-up is older than most of Volvo’s. Why put out old cars for premium money when you can buy new cars for premium money?
The way Jaguar fundled after e-Pace needs to be studied.
topcat5@reddit
I'm not sure why this company still exists. But yes, it was an idiotic rebrand that fell on its face.
strongmanass@reddit
It hasn't fallen on its face because it hasn't really happened yet. They released a concept car and a silly ad campaign - that's it. Whether or not it fails will be determined by sales figures.
austinzone813@reddit
Its failed in the public eye. When you lather your rebrand in dei bs you are tossing up a middle finger at over 50% of your buyers.
It hasnt panned out well for Gillette. It hasnt panned out well for Anheuser Busch. Whatever they were trying to advertise on their rebrand the majority of buyers dont want.
NCSUGrad2012@reddit (OP)
Maybe they’re thinking of a comeback? Don’t think it would go well but maybe that’s the plan lol
MMARapFooty@reddit
Their EV commercial was a disaster lets be real.
I thought I was watching a clothing or makeup commercial
markeydarkey2@reddit
holy misleading sensationalist clickbait batman
jubbing@reddit
Do they even make cars anymore? I feel like all I see is that werid AF car in the photo above now days, which can't even be bought?
Remic75@reddit
I love how everyone here has put 2 and 2 together and called out the article for being a nothing burger while twitter is raving about this and saying "this is ALL because they went woke. Now nobody wants to buy their cars!"
HeavyTanker1945@reddit
Jaguar went from making some of the only Sport sedans that could compete with BMW's control over that market.....
To 2 shitty SUVs no one wants.
Jaguar, your ENTIRE heritage is making fast, Light sport cars and Sedans, NOT THIS SHIT. Embrace the loud speedy, not the quiet spinny.
strongmanass@reddit
The whole problem is that Jaguar's sport sedans couldn't compete wth BMW. They were consistently outdone in performance, features, reliability, customer satisfaction, and - consequently - sales.
HeavyTanker1945@reddit
The XF, and the two generations of 5 Series that were sold alongside it, were neck and neck when it came to performance.
Also bullshit on Reliability, the Moment BMW started using the S63 V8s in shit, Jaguar had em, sure the 5.0 V8 was not GREAT, But atleast that engine doesn't have a reputation for blowing up before it can even reach 100k miles.
And need i mention the Maitenance item Rod bearings every 60k miles in the V10 BMWs?
JiveXP@reddit
You should keep in mind that most people buy 530d/is & 540i/DS, not M5s.
The same goes for Jaguar, with people buying the 3.0 V6/2.0 I4 versions of the XF instead of the F Type. The Jaguar XF is considered unreliable because the normal engines were not very reliable.
strongmanass@reddit
You're cherry-picking years. Yes, BMW was terrible those years and they have the lost lawsuits to prove it. But it wasn't those years alone that buyers were thinking of when they decided to buy a BMW or Jaguar. If Jaguar was competitive with BMW, why did BMW consistently outsell it to the point Jaguar did a radical rebrand instead of staying in the segment?
TzarKazm@reddit
I rather liked the SUVs. Or at least I liked it a lot more when I got a Jaguar demo to drive than a Land Rover demo. The Jaguar had a lot better driving feel and more acceleration than the Land Rovers.
dagelijksestijl@reddit
The problem is that the market for saloons and proper sports cars has been dying in recent years since their buyers prefer crossovers and SUVs now, and the niche manufacturers are simply the first on the chopping block.
HeavyTanker1945@reddit
Jaguar has a very dedicated buyer base. they could embrace that and do well enough.
they don't have to appeal to the masses. They can make Lower production Sporty cars and Sedans.
That was their ENTIRE market niche, They just needed to get rid of their shitty AJ series 5.0s and develop a new Engine that wasn't unreliable garbage.
Alone_Peace371@reddit
“Controversial rebrand” is a funny way of describing making an advertisement which is deliberately repulsive and antithetical to your brand
Alexander556@reddit
So they are not making anything new, but why did they do the rebrand when nothing else is comming?
AMLRoss@reddit
Next time you decide to do a whole rebrand, make sure you have a car ready to go on the show room floor instead of releasing a controversial add with nothing to show for it.
Guy_PCS@reddit
Jaguar has WAYMO as a backup plan.
44-MAGANUM@reddit
RIP a once great brand. (although we all secretly knew it was trash)
suzukijimny@reddit
My question is who were the brave 3 percent who brought a Jaguar?
Cheap-Play-80@reddit
They really had something good going around 2016/2017.
Sipheren@reddit
lol no-one saw this coming.....
the_old_coday182@reddit
I loved the campaign. A little part of me still thinks it went exactly as they planned it. I myself am a conservative person, but it brought joy to my heart, watching the woke people get so mad. About a brand that they’ve never supported before and never plan to. Like “ we’re an exclusive brand again and if this pisses you off, you weren’t part of our target audience anyway loser..” They’re not going after 335i buyers anymore.
Captain_Albern@reddit
I haven't seen a single "woke" person get mad, but many conservatives get mad about Jaguar going "woke", because pink I guess.
the_old_coday182@reddit
I meant anti-woke, fixed it
strongmanass@reddit
I think you mean conservative people, "woke" people didn't care. But generally, despite the silly articles that have come out, quiet word in Gaydon is that at least some of the board are quite happy with it and with Accenture Song (their marketing agency).
What people seem to be missing is that a pivot like this requires something new. Everyone keeps saying the Porsche 718 EV will fail because Porsche buyers don't want it, same for Maserati and Ferrari. The conclusion then is that if a legacy performance brand wants to make profitable EVs they need to find a different customer, probably one they've never appealed to before. That's exactly what Jaguar are doing.
People are also confusing the ad campaign and the rebrand. The rebrand is the pivot to luxury EVs; the ad campaign was just the attention-grabbing way they chose to announce it.
the_old_coday182@reddit
I meant anti-woke. Fixed
Lorian_and_Lothric@reddit
We’ll be downvoted but I agree 100%. They tried to appeal to the demographic that has zero interest in Jaguars and cool cars
Boggie135@reddit
Translation: People hated it
budgefrankly@reddit
They literally haven't put the new cars on sale yet. No-one knows what they actually look like, how they drive, or who will buy them.
The only thing dumber than this article are the comments in this thread.
It's /r/cars, surely people should know Jaguar announced a pause on production last year while they wait for the old stock to sell out, and that a quiet period of zero-sales is a planned part of the pivot to rebrand as ultra-luxury.
Puzzled_Tone_3826@reddit
Nah, I found out here it's because Jag are woke now. If they hadn't gone woke they'd be selling all the cars that they aren't building.
Never change, Reddit.
GenericDudeBro@reddit
I hear Oldsmobile sales are down as well this year.
Practical-Pick1466@reddit
Ev jaguar, nah !
thefanciestcat@reddit
Weird angle. I'm sure those things didn't help, but EVs they already sell alongside their gas powered cars and future plans for new styling that hasn't hit showrooms don't sounds like much of an answer for a 97% decrease.
I see the problem as a little more obvious. They're a sedan and sports car brand in a world where those segments don't do well, and no one thinks of SUVs when they think of Jaguar, even though those exist. The XJ doesn't even exist anymore. What chance does the rest of Jaguar have?
Finbarr-Galedeep@reddit
I still find myself wanting an F-Type rather badly.
hat1337@reddit
go woke go broke.
Captain_Albern@reddit
Like Target?
EvoVdude@reddit
You’re getting downvoted because it’s true
TheDrunkenMatador@reddit
Jaguar was forced between a rock and a hard place with Europe seemingly steamrolling towards an EV mandate, customers not wanting them at all, and them not having enough money to play both sides. They had a terrible hand, but they managed to play it even worse.
Sorry-Comment3888@reddit
Who could have seen this coming. 😮
The 👏 consumers👏 don't👏 want👏 E 👏V👏
oxheyman@reddit
Go woke go broke, that was the shittiest car ad I’ve ever seen and such a disrespect to a historical British brand.
Pumarealjaeger@reddit
Good. Nobody wants an electric jaguar anyway
Pseudonym_741@reddit
Case study of why you can't just have random execs running your marketing department.
As well as overall having a product to sell.
budgefrankly@reddit
The random exec is the guy who's made Land Rover one of the most successful premium SUV companies in Britain, with enormous profits year after year.
GrayCatbird7@reddit
Even if there was a collapse in one market it’s possible that it’s because they’re refocusing on another more promising market. After all, Jaguar is technically an Asian company.
Aromatic_Fail_1722@reddit
In other news, neither does Saab. Interesting.
Car-face@reddit
I feel like this deserves a misleading flair.
Production has ceased, they announced production would cease, and they haven't actually started selling their new vehicles yet.
89LSC@reddit
Jags demographic died and so did their production
bwoah_gimmethedrink@reddit
Jaguar is dead and will stay dead. The new design language doesn't appeal at all to their former clientbase and a 'younger & more diverse crowd' won't afford it. Plus people know that Jag reliability is shit.
devastationz@reddit
There are exactly 7 people buying Jags new out the door.
Lorian_and_Lothric@reddit
Go woke go broke
strongmanass@reddit
Subaru have done just fine and they marketed to lesbians when gay marriage wasn't even legal. Ben & Jerry's are also doing well. Big Gay Ice Cream...just look at the name.
UsedState7381@reddit
Who could have seen this coming?
Parking-League-7943@reddit
The brand in general has been going down....plus they aren't know for making quality products.
Staplersarefun@reddit
"News" or poorly researched and written social media content these days is exhausting.
aquatone61@reddit
Get woke go broke.
hawksdiesel@reddit
Some piss poor journalism we have here. If they stop producing vehicles, then sales will....stop.
1995LexusLS400@reddit
No, they aren't down 97% because of the controversial rebrand and EV transition. They're down 97% because they stopped selling cars.
They're fixing their shit. They were losing an obscene amount of money on warranty repairs.
bindermichi@reddit
Maybe sales just collapsed after they stopped making new cars to sell
TunerJoe@reddit
Shocking
RiftHunter4@reddit
I think they are going to find that people cared about Jaguar as a brand, just not the cars they tried to sell. I'm curious to see if they can actually hit the $200k price point, but I just don't see it happening.
OkDirection8015@reddit
To the surprise of no one. But to be fair it’s hard to sell products when you don’t have anything to sell.
topcat5@reddit
Back in the day.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfFRQ-StpwA
BearyHungry@reddit
Shocking. Anyways, what are everyone’s plans for the 4th?
Asgardus@reddit
They don't sell anything because you can't buy anything new from them.
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Wait. So shunning old people with money in favor of young people with no money that don't like your brand and not making any to buy is a bad idea?