Big Beautiful Bill Moves Forward with Zero Tax on Most NFA Items

I think you know why some Republicans (not all) aren’t against the soon coming AI surveillance system. Their team is in power currently, now if the other team was in power they’d be screaming from the rooftops about privacy infringements. It’s called mental gymnastics lol

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therealjody@reddit

I think we all know, broski. At least those of us who ain't drank a fat glass of flavor-aid

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Spartan543210@reddit

The ACA was upheld as a zero dollar tax by SCOTUS.

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Blze001@reddit

Bold to assume the SCOTUS will ever take a meaningful 2a case…

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Spartan543210@reddit

Bruen?

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Spartan543210@reddit

There are two statutes that talk on that subject and they can be read in a manner that doesn't conflict with the other.

Judges won't value one statute over another one if there is a distinction they can see.

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CheckYourLibido@reddit

When the suppressor tax first came out it was cost prohibitive for poor people to afford hearing protection.

You are right about today, but the origins were more about infringing and pricing people out. Where today, it's more about infringing and tracking

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No-Researcher-6186@reddit

Don't worry when the next administration is Democrat or anti gun they will absolutely price everybody out of being able to buy suppressors or SBRs.

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RR50@reddit

Keep fear mongering….because the republicans are doing a fine job at screwing over gun owners.

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CaptainSmegman@reddit

We wouldn't even be close to talking about something like this had a democrat won shut the fuck up

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RR50@reddit

They played everyone here like a fiddle….you thought they’d actually stick it out and get it passed, please…same story a 100 times, make it seem like they’re trying to protect your rights to keep you voting for them, only to screw you over in the end.

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CaptainSmegman@reddit

Answer this.

If you had a D controlled house and senate and presidency would a SBR bill and silencer bill arguing that, because there's a tax on both, that it should be deregulated entirely be included in a pork bill?

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TheCarm@reddit

Totally valid, dont fear the redditor downvotes. It means you're on the right track.

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DutchGoFast@reddit

Um what do you think Palantir is going to be tracking when Trump and Mr. Thiele get their new “citizen” database off the ground. Its important to know which EX-citizens might be armed after all, got to keep ICE safe!

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AngriestManinWestTX@reddit

And yet some people have been pretending like the prohibition on state-level AI regulation was no big deal. Mind you, it still polled overwhelmingly negatively yet they still kept that fucking horseshit in the final bill.

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Throwaway74829947@reddit

If you don't think that the ATF isn't already using every form 4473 to build an illegal registry of all FFL firearm transactions, I have a bridge to sell you.

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smracd01@reddit

the ATF doesnt get a dealers 4473's until that dealer decides to close up shop or have their license revoked. the only person that could be making a database about specifically what guns you own is your FFL...even NICs doesnt know what you got - they only know you're getting a handgun, long gun or other.

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Throwaway74829947@reddit

I never said it was a perfect or complete registry, but even NICS alone goes a long way for that unofficial registry. And FFLs close all the time - the dealer I did most of my transfers at for around seven years recently closed down, so now everything I bought during that time is in that illegal registry.

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smracd01@reddit

to give you an idea of how important the 4473's are to the ATF, i know an FFL who died and it took the ATF over 9 months to come pick up the forms from the premise address. The local IOI told the widow they'd send someone over to pick them up shortly after he passed, but 9 months later, the widow was about to sell the house and called the same IOI and told him the boxes would be on the porch since she didn't have keys anymore after she cleared closing.

and, when they do pick up a dealers paperwork, all it does it end up in a warehouse where it just rots away. anyone that tells you that they are scanned and digitized is full of shit.

now i will say that will a lot of FFLs using programs like fastbound or digital 4473's, then yes, there's a way easier way to creating this database you speak of.

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Diligent-Parfait-236@reddit

The ATF is perfectly open about digitizing them, they have a ton in storage and are constantly working on them and getting more.

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DeafHeretic@reddit

It was about the $ at first - certainly was in 1934 when it was equivalent to almost $4600 today.

But it means very little if anything today. I would pay the excise tax today if I did not have to account for the suppressor to a court of law someday in the future.

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cathode-raygun@reddit

It was always about control in 1934, control through exorbitant taxation. Now they gladly get rid of the tax because 200 is no longer an insane amount of money. Its still about control, just control through tracking/illegal registry now.

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DeafHeretic@reddit

yes I agree. I did not explain my thoughts very well. Control thru $$$

It wasn't about revenue. Never was.

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imdirtydan1997@reddit

Or hear me out…despite their efforts, the parliamentarian decided they need 60 votes for the full removal to pass. Removing the tax is what they can do with 50 votes. Believe it or not, the 60 votes needed to change most gun laws helps us just as much as it hurts in this case.

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Throwaway74829947@reddit

Precisely; people need to stop being so shortsighted. If items can be removed from the NFA with a simple majority in the Senate, there is nothing to stop a congress of a different color from adding so-called "assault weapons" or standard-capacity magazines to the NFA.

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malitove@reddit

Im not registering shit. Fuck these assholes.

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SilenceDobad76@reddit

If you've signed a 4473, you've absolutely "registered" something otherwise a serial number at a crime scene couldn't be traced to you.

Do what you like, but unless all of your guns are home made, you've never bought gun parts with a credit card, or gun accessories online, the government knows you have guns

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CarbineGuy@reddit

Yup. FFL/SOT for some years now, if you don’t think these guys can easily just ask for or even worse, remotely get into your books, you’re a complete fool. It all has a massive paper trail that everyone keeps for decades.

If they wanted to know, they’ll find out

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ZarcoTheNarco@reddit

Anyone who can look at the BBB and call it a win because of a reduction on tax stamps is insane.

Entire hospitals are gonna close with the massive cuts to US medical subsidies, 16 million people will lose ther health insurance, SNAP is being reduced to a shadow of its former self, and over 45 billion more to ICE.

But yeah, no tax stamp, so yay!

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dragonsuns@reddit

Cool, now the precedent is set so that when anti gun politicians are back in power, they can raise the tax to whatever the fuck they want

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pragmatichokie@reddit

This. The inability to see past four years is just astonishing to me.

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pragmatichokie@reddit

This is not a win.

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JCMGamer@reddit

Still a chance for the language to get added back, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

(Not a big fan of the rest of the bill, but trying be optimistic and see a silver lining)

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codifier@reddit

Wouldn't matter if the language gets added back. The Senate Parliamentarian will strike it again on the next go around.

The (R) controlled Senate and Vance is the problem here, they can override her they just choose not to.

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mkosmo@reddit

Sure, but think about the precedent set if they did. It'd be a short term victory... and a long term suicide that'd render the win to be pyrrhic.

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DrunkenArmadillo@reddit

Yeah, there's Parliamentarian is clearly making decisions in spite of clear legal precedent, and Dems are further digging that trench, but using the nuclear option is clearly not smart. Challenging the registration in court on the grounds that the registration was only supportable by tax is clearly the way to go. In fact, they've in way nullified Sonzinsky, because they have clearly demonstrated that the NFA is not intended as merely a taxing measure and should instead be evaluated as a regulatory measure.

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mkosmo@reddit

100%. It all makes sense when you step back and look at it from a nonadvocate perspective.

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codifier@reddit

You really think the Dems are holding back from doing so out of some sort of honor? They just haven't wanted to badly enough, they couldn't care less if Rs did it first or not if it's something they wanted.

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mkosmo@reddit

Somebody has to cross the line first. Politics is a game played by seeing who will cross which lines first.

Could they or will they in the future? Sure. But one thing is for certain: They will do it ASAP if it was done here first.

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SukOnMaGLOCKNastyBIH@reddit

Ill bet my entire retirement that it gets worse for us before Mogul signs it.

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volckerwasright@reddit

The House already passed the bill with the full HPA and SHORT language attached, you are going to lose your life savings

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TheMeta40k@reddit

Wait...

Did it?

I thought the full HPA language removed suppressors from the NFA. I might be mistaken, I haven't been following this all that closely until now. I didn't sink too much time into it before it came up for a vote.

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volckerwasright@reddit

The bill passed from the Senate maintains the NFA registry requirement. It must now be voted on in the House again

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TheMeta40k@reddit

Ok thanks for the clarification. Going back to the house was the detail I missed.

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mcbergstedt@reddit

Yep, the money has to come from somewhere. Either the deficit marches towards the failure of the Dollar, or our taxes go up

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corruptbytes@reddit (OP)

bill is a shit sandwich still, but this is probably the only 2a win in awhile

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ChevTecGroup@reddit

Might be the only legislative win for a while.

Some regulatory and judicial wins are still in the works.

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RegalArt1@reddit

Not sure what judicial wins we’re expecting given the whole “district courts can’t issue nationwide injunctions” ruling from last week

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DrunkenArmadillo@reddit

Yeah, but if you live in a friendly circuit it will be hard for them to justify keeping the registry requirement in that circuit. We just need to expedite some lawsuits while there is a gun friendly AG.

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ColtBTD@reddit

Not having to pay 200 dollars but still having to register and do the process is not a win, don’t let that fool you. It’s just a crumb so they can say “here you go”. I’d rather pay the 200 and not have to do the bullshit.

Saving 200 dollars does not offset how fucking stupid the bill is and how many lives this dumb ass bill will destroy. Nor will it offset how negatively the bill will impact the economy. Putting this in a 1100 page bill to begin with is their way of saying “see we tried, blame the dems” and all of the single issue voters will continue to eat it.

Fuck em. And before anyone starts reverberating Brandon Herrera “take the win and shut the fuck up”, it’s not a win and the bill / the administration is a literal abomination.

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ad895@reddit

We don't have to completely remove the NFA for us to get a win.

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Cdwollan@reddit

Sure but enjoy people saying this makes it easier to require registration of title 1 firearms.

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ad895@reddit

The NFA only exists because it's considered a tax not a regulation. It will do the exact opposite because it's pretty hard to say it's a tax when you aren't paying any money.

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Cdwollan@reddit

That's a lot of trust you're putting in politicians.

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Deep_Combination6420@reddit

Bingo.

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Corey307@reddit

All true, the silver lining is suppressors are gonna get a lot cheaper. Because of the $200 tax stamp, they are a niche product, something the vast majority of firearms owners don’t bother with. The more people buy them the better the prices are going to get as new companies start making them.

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RecordingDifferent47@reddit

One brick at a time.

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ColtBTD@reddit

Been saying that for year. The only “progressive” ive seen in my lifetime is just removing stuff they’ve added in my life time. Red or Blue, majority do not want anything that gives more firearms rights back and more armed people despite what they claim.

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6_1_5@reddit

Fuck em! All politicians are bad.

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Diligent-Parfait-236@reddit

The registration is a record of the tax paid, not only is this a win on it's own it should lead to them being fully removed from the nfa anyways... at the speed of the courts.

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DeafHeretic@reddit

Someday maybe. Probably not in my lifetime (I have maybe 10 years left). So not a win for me. The $200 means nothing to me - I can easily afford that.

The premise (promise?) that this might maybe someday result in removing suppressors from the registry only works for me if it actually happens in time for me to get some suppressors for my family to have without being on some list somewhere for the jackboots to use when they start knocking on doors.

I am the patriarch of my immediate family. They are not going to get suppressors on their own if I don't get them for them. I am a prepper and I see the value in owning/using a suppressor in a number of different scenarios. But it won't happen if I don't make it happen, and the downside of the suppressor being in a registry and/or their names being in/on a trust, is just too much for me to risk.

So no. Not a win for me. Nor for my family.

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boss_ginger@reddit

You're dreaming. By the time this hits a courtroom, MAGA would be unelectable for all the lives ruined by this bill, and the tax will be added right back on.

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akbuilderthrowaway@reddit

how fucking stupid the bill is and how many lives this dumb ass bill will destroy

I remember when the last omnibus bill did that...

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Borgie32@reddit

And the bill before that...

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HerezahTip@reddit

Not a win.

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Corey307@reddit

It’s a small win. Anything that makes owning firearms less cost prohibitive means more freedom for the average American.

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TheCarm@reddit

This whole thread HAS to be astroturfed... this is the first win since... 1986? Earlier? When was the last time we had a win on the NFA?

Look, ill be honest... Im worried about a full repeal of the NFA because I believe the next libbies controlled government they will just create and push through a way more restrictive version of the NFA.

What happened in this bill is kind of perfect since it doesn't fully repeal the NFA but it renders it pretty much toothless and we can now challenge things about it in the future with a much higher likelihood of success.

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Taylor814@reddit

These regs were previously upheld under Congress's taxation powers.

The elimination of the tax reopens the door for those challenges.

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Clownshoes919@reddit

Not the win I wanted, but the $1 tax push by democrats at the last second made me think it’s not quite the loss I thought either.

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diprivanity@reddit

"both parties are for gun control" npcs in shambles. There's a pretty clear alignment over who is introducing and supporting reducing infringements, and who is opposing them.

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jrhooo@reddit

Imma go NO on that one.

Look at this giant pile of shit in this bill no one wants. They could easily trade any one of:

Tax breaks for the rich, increase for the poor

Massive increase on ICE spending

Gutting medicare/medicaide

Any of those could have been a bargaining chip for suppressors and sbrs

Instead, the 2A parts were an afterthought, that very little fight was made for, while they fought tooth and nail for their real priorities

One side is actively bad. The other barely gives a shit except when they need the PR

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diprivanity@reddit

ICE funding is a major plus lol get outta here

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LoneRogue2018@reddit

Nooo muh orange man with bump stocks tho! Same people conveniently ignore that Trump loves talking shit but never implements it and his own ban got overruled by the justices he appointed lol

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csbassplayer2003@reddit

So is he a liar, or a moron?

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PrestigiousOne8281@reddit

Who, Joe? Both.

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Disastrous-Ball-1574@reddit

Yeah I'll take Trump over literally any Democrat any day. "BuT hE BaNnEd BuMpStOcKs". And? Democrats want to take your whole fucking collection. Except for maybe the bolt actions. And a bb rifle. You can keep those. Aren't the Democrats so nice to you?

I take deep issue voting for the party named after democracy, who shits on the Democratic process the past three primaries. If that isn't reason enough alone. Well good luck with how you think the world should be lol.

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3915-2017@reddit

Remember how Democrats assaulted police officers and rioted in the US Capitol last time they lost an election? Remember how their candidate lied to his supporters and tried to overturn the will of the people? Yeah, me neither.

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Disastrous-Ball-1574@reddit

How short is your memory? Didn't they just do a buncha looting and rioting in LA?

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Sneekibreeki47@reddit

Hurrrr durrrrr

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VacuumHamster@reddit

Yes.

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Corey307@reddit

I’ll never understand why Republicans are so OK with Trump saying the dumbest things especially regarding firearms since that’s where we are right now. You think you’d want your politicians to say what they mean.

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keenansmith61@reddit

I might be misunderstanding, but it sou ds like you're arguing in circles with that one.

People mad that he banned bump stocks

Same people don't understand he talks shit but never implements

Problem is, he did implement the ban, and people that actually know what they're doing had to overturn it because what he implemented was unconstitutional.

Whether or not it got overturned is irrelevant, because he absolutely did attempt to ban them. It only speaks to his stupidity that his own yes men had to tell him that what he was doing was illegal.

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fzammetti@reddit

Yes, because they're at least smart enough to know which crumbs to drop to keep their constituents onboard. There's no conviction there, it's all just political calculus. Give JUST enough to the pew-pew crowd (which I'm with) to be okay with all you lose everywhere else (which I'm not okay with). That's all it is. Don't be fooled into thinking they're the right team on that alone. If you're good with it it all then that's fine, you get to make that choice. But don't for a second think their "support" of the 2A is anything but a tactic to win elections. It's nothing more than that to them.

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diprivanity@reddit

Certified brainlet take lol, you can make that argument about any political position. I'll take the guys cashing checks from gun rights interest groups, not sucking off Brady and Giffords.

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ExoticGeologist@reddit

There needs to be a tax to justify the registry. With no tax, the registry is at risk of being struck down as unconstitutional.

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skippythemoonrock@reddit

The question is if a $0 tax is "no tax" or an actual on the books tax that amounts to $0. The latter has been used for legal fuckery before iirc.

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DjQball@reddit

Yes let’s give up all of the liberties for tax free gun accessories lmao

Greeeeat bill.

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Sharkdart@reddit

I shouldn't have to trade my parents Medicaid for my constitutional rights. Its hard to be excited about this. But you got to take what you can these days.

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RunNGunPhoto@reddit

One Big Beautiful Uni-Party… (/s)

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DoughnutSnake@reddit

Just to confirm, the whole land grab part got removed right? If that + this happened I see that as a win. Like others said, with the money part gone they may be able to slowly remove it altogether. You could also argue its better this way, as some states made it illegal to own SBRs/Suppressors without registration when this bill came up, meaning they may still be forced to register there items, but now at zero tax cost. Baby steps people, this is the first time in like a 100 years 2a rights have started to go in the right direction.

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Kpb17@reddit

Yes, Mike Lee gave up on the public land sales (at least for now)

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Jaruut@reddit

Ah man, all his real estate developer cronies are gonna be upset

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aliendepict@reddit

Yea fuck this bill. Its a pile of shit. Its not worth the nfa tax getting cut, to loose national parks and land access, cant wait to have my favorite hunting spots charge me 500 to have access but awes i dont pay $250 for a silencer i buy once a decade…. On top of all the big brother shit in this bill yall are excited to get a nfa tax cut and accepting the patriot act part 2 on steroids…

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TheMeta40k@reddit

I wonder if palantir has all the data from PRISM.

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LoneRogue2018@reddit

Yeah probably. Obama laid the groundwork through the NSA and Trump's bill finished the surveillance project. Yet people here are only whining about Trump but not the democrats' role in deteriorating the few good parts of the bill

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TheMeta40k@reddit

Yeah the NSA stuff never looked good but 100% got worse. I really don't like PRISM.

I don't want to go on too big of a rant today and this isn't really the subreddit for it but I have strong feelings about all the money allocated to the three letter agencies to build AI/giant data warehouses. Obviously I don't know the details but it feels incredibly rights infringe-y just due to its suspicious scope. Just my opinion.

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ur6an_r00ts@reddit

The privatization ofmpublic land is just bull...

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aka_mythos@reddit

I’m surprised this has stuck around, other zeroed out tax provisions were kicked from the bill for being policy and not budgetary.