Why are my senior coworkers suddenly giving up?
Posted by TrueMythos@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 318 comments
I started working at a medium-size university maintaining a single Windows management system, and in four years, went from no IT experience to managing all the school's academic and business computers, Windows and Mac, several academic licensing servers, and the technical side of our entire computer lifecycle process.
Throughout the process, our two senior techs held my hand and taught me everything. Let's call them Dirk and Collin (fake names). Collin used to sit with me for hours, teaching me shell scripting, app deployment, and how to generally function as a young professional. Both he and Dirk are great guys. They've been in their user-facing positions for 30-35 years, and they'd give anyone the shirts off their backs, no questions asked.
Here's where the problems started. I keep being given systems to manage that Dirk and Collin have no interest in learning about. I love it. I built our Azure Virtual Desktop workspaces from the ground up in one summer, with only Microsoft Learn to help me and a bunch of complex, unique configurations that I spent weeks troubleshooting alone. I'm currently working on migrating our entire fleet to Intune, something Dirk and Collin were supposed to do 7-8 years ago and never started on. I'm really proud of my work, and I credit them for giving me the foundation to go out and learn on my own. Until recently, I'd go to them to read over my documentation before I made it available to the rest of the team and ask for advice on things I'm not familiar with yet. Suddenly, though, it's like they're both shutting down.
Both of them refuse to learn anything about our MDMs. They don't trust them, they blame them for random events, and they refuse to read my documentation. After months of them refusing to let me show them how to provision computers with Autopilot, our boss scheduled a meeting for us to do just that—and Dirk physically walked out of the room halfway through. It goes beyond the new stuff, too. Collin asks me how to look up Bitlocker keys in Active Directory (for our hybrid-joined devices, the same process they've always used). They've forgotten how LAPS works, how to use a FileVault recovery key, how to clear a TPM, and the list goes on. Dirk loudly announces that "Intune is down!" in the group chat because he got an error message for an application and refuses to Google it. On top of that, every group chat about the systems I manage, Dirk fills with all-caps, smiley emojis, and weird flattery. It's stuff like "I really appreciate TrueMythos and all her hard work. SHE IS AWESOME!!!!!" while being passive-aggressive and refusing to let me help him troubleshoot the stuff he's just blamed on me personally. He went to a professor after I'd closed out a ticket and told him I couldn't possibly have fixed an issue because I don't know what I'm doing. Spoiler alert: it was clearly fixed, and he didn't even bother to check. They both have read-only access to literally everything I do, and they refuse to log in and check before making wild accusations.
In person, they're both great to be around, and I really don't want to cause problems for the team. At the same time, they're ignoring my documentation, telling our users and student workers blatantly false information, and bad-mouthing all of our systems. I doubt they feel professionally threatened by me, since they've been here so much longer and objectively know so much more, so I don't know what the problem could be. I'm starting to avoid them in the hallways, leave easily-searchable questions unanswered in the group chat, and let them fail in front of end users while I keep my mouth shut. That can't be healthy, and I'm weirdly lonely now that my safety nets are gone and there's no one else to bounce ideas off of. How should I approach this situation without disrespecting them and keeping a positive work environment?
IGrowInTheDark@reddit
Don't you worry. If you were gone they can pick up what they need to overnight to keep things rolling.
Sufficient_Koala_223@reddit
This should be a pinned post which reflects how the system admins are feeling right now. And also, Microsoft needs to see this post as well.
whatdoido8383@reddit
They're probably tired of the constant churn in the IT world. I've been in IT something like 20 years now and am getting close to my mid 40's. I'm getting pretty tired and most of the time I just want to coast and not deal with constant issues, upgrades, the newest wiz-bang IT software etc.
The constant need to be on your game, learn and firefight really wears on you after a while.
As far as what you're doing? Just keep at it. You're going to run into grumpy IT guys now and then. Just don't do anything that makes their life more difficult. Of course they'll have to adapt but let them do it at their own pace. If you outpace them then so be it.
Far_Big_9731@reddit
I’m going to point out the obvious. You are a successful WOman in IT. AND you’re making the decisions now…
planedrop@reddit
My thing is less so the want to coast and more so the lack of real compensation for being good in an industry that doesn't let you coast. I'm fine with putting in the effort to learn, it's just that I don't want to keep going above and beyond just because I'm passionate about it, it should be paid for.
TekSnafu@reddit
I need this on a t-shirt or at the least a throw pillow.
pootiel0ver@reddit
Sometimes I wonder just how many of us there are like this. Im going on 27 years in the industry. Seen some crazy shit and watched tech literally just explode into society. It's awesome but I'm kind of fried.
whatdoido8383@reddit
That's a great question, I wonder that as well. I know a few other salty "old" ( we're 40's\50's so not really that old LOL) sysadmins who have the same "I'm just tired" mentality.
I didn't get this way until probably 5-6 or so years ago, after Covid. For me it was when companies stared to implement more cloud infrastructure and seemed to really want to lean IT departments out. It's like all management cares now is about saving money and rolling out the newest cloud service.
Now we're into the push for ML\AI and "efficiency".
It's all just so exhausting. I miss the days where I was racking and stacking gear, spinning up a new storage cluster, managing my virtualization cluster, doing some monthly patching, maybe rolling some new software out that year or planning some infrastructure refresh. I had more time to tinker and it was actually fun. IMO the current state of IT is not fun.
wowsomuchempty@reddit
Yep. I work on HPC at a uni, all Linux. Consider it pretty much an oasis in the shitstorm of modern IT.
Human-Company3685@reddit
Exactly this. You’re about the same age and same amount of time in IT as me. We’ve seen IT go from fairly stable rate of change (new version of Windows server and Exchange server every couple of years) to a constant bombardment of new features and new products all the time. I’m sick of hearing about new programming or scripting languages, new management and monitoring tools, new features in management portals literally every few weeks. If you happen not to log into a cloud console for 2 months, you’re not sure if you have some sort of brain injury because the whole thing has changed since the last time you used it. Maybe if you are starting out in IT now you are used to it (or young enough to keep up), but I suspect at 20 years or more it’s fatigue - it wasn’t so bad being stretched across a wide scope of IT at first, but now there is too much. I hear you and honestly believe this is likely what they (and many of us) feel
ErikTheEngineer@reddit
One thing I hate is how this drives "good enough" and MVP thinking. Why bother putting out a solid product if you're just going to swap it all out in.2 weeks? I've worked with devs almost my whole career, and while waterfall is bad, this factory floor zero-slack DevOps model is absolutely driving the wrong outcomes. Instead of a stable well-documented product, you get whatever garbage the developer could get to compile before the deadline. Taking Microsoft as an example, pre-2012 releases were stable, only came out every few years, and were well-supported. Part of the reason is that you were buying a product in a box and paying real money for it, so it had to hold together and work. Now SaaS lets developers ship broken software and being locked into a subscription means the company doesn't need to care about fixing problems.
I think people have forgotten how rock-solid software and hardware used to be. Some of the bugs I encounter every day would never have made it past even the most junior QA people. I think this is why older people with more time in IT seem grumpy and unwilling to change...for all the progress we make, the quality bar is absolutely on the floor.
yepperoniP@reddit
I’ve noticed a lot of this is going on with Apple and other companies as well, constant updates and redesigned apps with a bunch of annoying small bugs that devs seem to shrug off while focusing on flashy new features instead. A lot of Mac users feel the same way, with 10.6 Snow Leopard in 2009 widely being seen as the most stable Mac OS release before they switched to the yearly release model in 2011.
cmack@reddit
You thought MVP meant Most Valuable P(person / program).
Nope....it is MINIMAL VIABLE PRODUCT. Where viable is debatable.
whatdoido8383@reddit
Exactly. The replies in this thread that are like "It's always been like this!", no it absolutely has not. The amount and frequency of changes I have to keep up now compared to even 10 years ago has increased a lot. I believe a part of this is companies running lean as well. We're expected to do more now that ever and be happy about it....
Also IMO we don't get paid nearly enough for the BS we have to deal with but that's hard for outsiders\management to even begin to wrap their head around.
No_Investigator3369@reddit
Those replies have never touched a dip switch and think IS-IS is terrorist related imo. And don't really understand all storage goes back to basically a bastardized form of SCSI.
badasimo@reddit
I think this is also due to the amount of competition. Before you had a few big vendors and a transition would be a big project and that would be that. Now there is a ton of mix and match, everyone's chasing down discounts with new vendors and tech and there is a ton of churn.
New pricing models have caused people to feel the heat. Whereas you could coast on your investment for years before, now you have subscriptions that go up year over year.
On top of that, the new security model is "update everything, all the time" and "deprecate things that can't stay updated" so that now we are very often left without support. It is because a lot of these tech stacks are intertwined and when some base technology EOL's a version it has a ripple effect through the other products that depend on it.
whatdoido8383@reddit
Absolutely and great point. When I mention "churn" in my original post, this is exactly what I meant. It's way more work now than it used to be to keep up with this constant flow of changes and updates, yet we're being expected to do it with less headcount.
trapped_outta_town2@reddit
Those are just the young guys that aren't jaded yet. Give them some time to come to the dark side
whatdoido8383@reddit
I'm sure you're right. They probably don't know any better as it's always been like this to hem.
IT work wasn't always a stress laden clown show. Now it's just how lean can orgs run their IT departments before people start quitting or burn the place down. I'm about at the Milton stage myself...
Mission-Conflict97@reddit
Microsoft 365 and Adobe have gotten way too extreme with changes when they change shit so fast that the knowledge base is consistently wrong their support doesn't know what was changed its moving too quick. It needs to be slowed down.
Dizzy_Bridge_794@reddit
The constant MSFT changing of their management pages drives me crazy.
LOLBaltSS@reddit
I see you're an Azure/M365 admin... lol. Yeah, if I'm not in a specific admin center for a hot minute, Microsoft decides to fuck with it again and changes everything. It's like coming back from vacation to find someone broke into your house and re-arranged everything.
There was a post on here a few weeks ago that was a prank post formatted to look like Microsoft announcing deprecating Graph API/PowerShell with Co-Pilot PowerShell and everyone in the thread lost their shit because they thought it meant having to re-write a bunch of scripts again. It got pulled by the mods, but a copy of it was posted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittySysadmin/comments/1lg3we8/ms_announcement_microsoft_graph_api_retirement/
ratherBwarm@reddit
72 here, retired at 58, and again at 62. IT everything/generalist - programmer/admin/network/manager … but mostly in specific environments (DEC\SUN\Unix compute&storage). Windows only for desktop use, as another dept managed the server side. I was 60 when I started using Windows server and Exchange server - I am sooo glad I retired again 2 yrs later. Brain fatigue. My now 37 yr old son was totally comfortable with all the tools and wrote really great apps until a few years ago, where he transitioned to product engineering.
Accomplished_Ad7106@reddit
I'm only a printer MSP, kinda wish I was in IT. Maybe we should swap jobs for a year to prevent burnout?
zeptillian@reddit
What are we using today? How many features do people actually use? Why change applications/systems for more features that no one will ever use? Just to create more work and piss everyone off having to learn new shit?
Learning about the latest and greatest sounds fun when you are a newish tech and it can future proof your knowledge a little bit. It can also help your career to be on top of current technology and practices. Implementing that shit for fun or make work type shit when you already have enough on your plate is just unappealing if you don't care about learning for the sake of learning.
After_Nerve_8401@reddit
I’ve been in IT for over 20 years. The ongoing need to learn new things is what keeps me in this field. What bothers me is that end-users are not improving. Most tickets are still about resetting passwords and basic MS Office problems. Many users cannot and will not understand MFA. I hear “I am not a computer guy” daily. To make things worse, leadership is constantly cutting IT’s budget.
whatdoido8383@reddit
Absolutely, me as well, I like new challenges. What I don't like is the speed or scale at which it's expected now. Keeping up with changes and updates on a few systems is fine. Keeping up with changes and updates on a dozen systems and applications etc is hardly sustainable.
What really bothers me is this push from management to support more tools with less resources and a low quality of service. There is no way I can know the ins and outs of all these solutions to provide good support to users\customers.
uptimefordays@reddit
I don’t understand why so many people in our field think continual learning isn’t part of every professional job.
d00ber@reddit
Honestly, my take (on why people might think this) is they probably see the c-level baby boomers who can't open a word document, excel file and constantly ask how to edit a PDF after working for them for 10 years and actively teaching them. Not everyone continually learns and this has been constant for every job I've worked in. I continually learn, and update because that's clear to me that in our field it's an absolute necessity. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a silly goose!
uptimefordays@reddit
In fairness, executives generally don't need to know how to edit Word documents or edit PDFs, they're mostly there to attend meetings and make big decisions.
XCOMGrumble27@reddit
The problem is that Microsoft has figured that out and is now starting to tamper with notepad in an effort to make my preferred text editor just as shit as their flagship office products.
uptimefordays@reddit
That's why I stick with vim on all systems, nobody's changing the GUI there!
XCOMGrumble27@reddit
vim doesn't exist in most environments.
uptimefordays@reddit
I almost never see servers without it and it runs fine on my laptop and Windows VM.
d00ber@reddit
That's wild to me! What about project plans, budgets or other such things you have to present to boards/ceo/cto..etc..etc Most jobs require powerpoint, excel and word for these kinds of presentations using some form of company header/footer lol
C-levels go crazy about that shit in my experience.
uptimefordays@reddit
Office just isn't a major part of my workflow, I make a couple PowerPoints a year, dump all kinds of data into Excel but on the CLI, Word almost never gets used though. Diagrams and documentation go in web based solutions where people can actually get them easily.
d00ber@reddit
Nice. I keep Diagrams and documentations in web based solutions as well, export data especially network data to support use cases but every corporate job has required that I also have some word/excel/powerpoint to go with it cause our c-levels would never log into any of our saas applications. Heck, most c-levels I've worked with want a printed copy in a physical meeting called in-person, except for start-up jobs or in tech based companies where c-levels are largely millennial anyway.
uptimefordays@reddit
The only executives I work with regularly are our chief compliance officer, CISO, CIO, and whatever we call our head lawyer these days, and all of those folks are comfortable using our internal website that provides the kinds of documentation executives consume. Not sure what the other execs like, I don't have to deal with them.
d00ber@reddit
Ah, that makes sense. I've found myself in the unfortunate situation of getting old which means a lot more senior duties on top of my regular duties, including the stuff I was mentioning. The higher up you go, the less technically competent they become. That has been consistent at every job I've ever done including tech with the exceptions of small startups where the "CEO" is still the founder.
uptimefordays@reddit
I'm fortunate to work somewhere with career paths for individual contributors, as a senior engineer I mostly work across engineering teams on projects. For DR and continuity planning, I do interact with some relevant c suite folks, but most of my consulting work is on the insurance side for cyber liability related shit--so discussions there are usually more policy than technical where legal and I tell everyone "if we don't do X, Y, or Z, we will be sued."
d00ber@reddit
That sounds awesome! I'm a little older, so my career has mostly been Network/Systems Admin/engineer specializing in datacenter, but recently more architecture and planning/budget forecasting since that's a hot topic right now. Consulting mostly just helping small businesses navigate when it makes sense to use SAAS products when they have no cloud presence and setup things like immutable cloud backups, on demand cloud DR and testing procedures..etc..etc. Old head, gotta find work where I can since I moved away from Silicon Valley into a tech desert.
uptimefordays@reddit
While I'm in my mid 30s, most of my colleagues are 40s-60s--I'm the token engineering baby. I feel like I speed ran a bit of my career by learning systems administration and network engineering in parallel and seeking roles where I've done both and leveraged automation as an excuse to work on both. But I'd also argue I picked some broad areas with a high level of conceptual overlap which makes learning new implementations pretty easy. "Oh we're going from Nimble to Pure storage? Great!" "Oh we're building shit with Terraform in Azure not on prem? Cool!"
But I'm also somebody who enthusiastically upgrades operating systems and enjoys all this stuff. I was not confused when I got into this field and took all the platform migration projects over the years.
zinver@reddit
We are not professionals.
We have no bond or certification or insurance stating as such, and not even really a common public good that we must accomplish. It's all very informal and up to the person to decide how to act as there is no governing body or board to approve our "profession".
Doctors, Lawyers, and Engineers are professionals, they carry all of the certification, bond, and insurance and common public good moralities as a part of their employment.
Certainly we can act professional, but at best being in IT is a gray collar job.
uptimefordays@reddit
Neither business analysts, consultants, HR drones, sales reps, nor CEOs are professional jobs by your definition but nobody would suggest they aren't white collar jobs. While systems administration is a very broad field, I would say it's mostly white collar work--you're in an airconditioned office sitting at a desk mostly working as a salaried, non exempt, employee. Yes, there are solo admins who get roped into more blue or pink collar type work, but they aren't the norm in my experience.
zinver@reddit
You're focusing on where you sit and not the responsibility.
If I crash a payment database and I get fired ... can I work at another company managing a payment database? Yes.
can a doctor, lawyer, or engineer make a similar mistake? No. Their professional standing is revoked by their professional organization.
uptimefordays@reddit
I think that’s a really simplistic and idealized view of how things work. We’re using the term professional worker differently as well though, I’m using it to mean “white collar” while you’re using it to describe “licensed workers.”
No_Investigator3369@reddit
Because often it is learning to do someone elses job vs fortifying your own field of study
uptimefordays@reddit
I suppose it depends on your role and employer, I wasn't confused taking things like certificate management, backups, and storage from outgoing engineers but that's all well within my comfort zone. If I was doing M365 admin not Azure I'd probably be less pleased.
cmack@reddit
size and scope bruh....if you don't get it....you don't know it
uptimefordays@reddit
I mean I run a global system of software defined datacenters running something like 300 applications, complexity is no stranger.
TwoDeuces@reddit
This is probably going to be unpopular but...
Technology is changing at an unsustainable rate, leading to death by a thousand cuts. I'd categorize most of it into two groups, neither of which should be necessary:
Bottom line, everything I wrote above exists everywhere and is a tax on IT with no actual benefit to any organizations.
I'm not some grumpy neckbeard. I understand that learning is necessary, but in so many situations our time is wasted dealing with stuff that falls into one of those two buckets. It leaves little time for learning.
zeptillian@reddit
Software quality really has gone to shit over the past few decades.
It used to be that advertised features were always 100% expected to work as advertised. Now they are merely aspirational.
Oh yes, that feature is still in beta. We never mentioned that it wasn't fully flushed out and the salesperson who sold it to you promised that it would work, but unless you are one of the major customers propping up our business and you need that feature to work, it's best not to hold your breath because it may not be functional for several more years if ever.
cmack@reddit
The consumer is the new QA/QC/RFE process
ErikTheEngineer@reddit
CIOs have always had this. That nice cloud salesman is offering steak dinners, rounds of golf and strip club visits, better go listen to him! The difference, and what I'm seeing in cloud native companies, is the ability for the CIO to just pull out the American Express and buy new shiny SaaS objects every week, demanding they be supported. It used to be a year or two to migrate from one shiny to the next, now they want the "easy onboarding" they saw on the Facebook ad.
AncientWilliamTell@reddit
... this has been going on since about ... 1998. It's what IT is. Source: I'm a grumpy neckbeard.
NoodleSchmoodle@reddit
Grumpy 35 year veteran here as well. (Neckbeard-less, I’m a woman). I’ve been doing this professionally since I was 15 and started building custom PCs for people. I’m almost 50.
I’m tired boss. I’m tired.
bishop375@reddit
Technology has been changing at this rate since at least the 90's, though.
The problem is as others have said - now everyone expects us to know everything that plugs in, lights up, or has a wireless signal. I shouldn't be climbing into the ceiling to reset cable boxes, but yet, here I am.
whatdoido8383@reddit
Being in this field a while now it's not so much the constant learning, it's the increased number of systems you support and the pace at which systems change now.
I certainly don't mind learning, but constantly having to learn the latest and greatest with increased workload is hard. I burned out around the 15 year mark, took a year off, got back in and am already feeling pressure again 5 years later.
uptimefordays@reddit
What, specific, new things come out and require entirely new learning? The majority of new technologies are usually a reimplementation of something old.
whatdoido8383@reddit
If you've ever been a Microsoft 365/Azure admin you'd understand :)
uptimefordays@reddit
I cut my teeth on Server 2003, AD, and Exchange, I also did my first 365 migration in 2016. At the end of the day you're managing users and mailboxes, it's not fundamentally different even if the layout of buttons is a little different.
Greatsage75@reddit
It's more than just the button layout being a little different, and even if that were all it was it eventually wears you down. Entire portals will change dramatically and you need to relearn how to do even the most basic of functions. Tools that underpin administrative tasks that can only be done via Powershell will be retired and replaced, seemingly arbitrarily.
And it's happening constantly. I don't think there's been a day in years when at least one of the admin portals I use doesn't have a banner advertising the updated version.
Learning new things isn't an issue - it's having to relearn what you already know when there's no real benefit to it or improvement to the way you work. Just as you get comfortable with a system, it's changed. When that keeps happening constantly, it's exhausting.
cmack@reddit
Worth restating:
"Learning new things isn't an issue - it's having to relearn what you already know when there's no real benefit..."
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
I see you’ve used Microsoft Graph…
cmack@reddit
"buttons"
GTFOH. We are talking commands, apis, graphql mutations, and the like....
JFC.
whatdoido8383@reddit
Nice, me as well, I started out in IT consulting. you're referring to one product in the M365 stack. If you're a M365 generalist (SharePoint, Teams, OneDrive, all of the policies and different things that plug into the stack), that's much different than just exchange. Add in any software that could interface with those systems too.
It's a lot to keep up with.
uptimefordays@reddit
I guess but think about all the IT support people who managed users/groups/permissions in AD, updated GPOs, dealt with file servers, Unified Communications, Exchange, etc. there was a lot to know there as well. Sure the implementations are different but you're more or less doing the same work.
whatdoido8383@reddit
I guess I'm not sure what your point is. All I'm saying is I feel like over the years companies keep expanding their IT footprint and implementing the latest greatest new software or whatever faster and with less headcount.
When I first was a sysadmin back in the day I managed AD, Exchange, file servers, printing, backup and recovery, storage, virtulization, etc etc, jack of all trades.
Then they added in Azure\M365 resources like SharePoint, OneDrive and Teams as well as cloud hosted VM's, data retention policies, DataLake, all of the authentication that goes along with that, hosted SQL, different ERP or data management systems, new project management software, etc etc.
Then came automation so I had to learn automation scripting and doing more with less. User onboarding, Teams provisioning etc etc.
Add in having to harden security postures and all policies that come along with that due to the change in the security landscape over the years.
It's just become more and more to try and keep up with, almost impossible.
I switched companies and focus on mainly M365 stuff now but it's at a much larger scale (120K+ users). We still deal with all the same issues and trying to keep up with all the new feature releases coming out across the M365 stack, security updates, API changes, authentication changes, keeping up with automation coding, etc.
IMO, the IT space is much, much more demanding then it was 20, heck, even 10 years ago. Companies run smaller teams and still expect you to be on your game 100% of the time.
Again, this is what I've experienced. If you haven't I'm not saying you're wrong or arguing with you, this is just my opinion on the current state of IT.
uptimefordays@reddit
I mean in the 2010s we expected mid and senior level linux admins to port drivers in C. I think it really depends on where in the space you were, automation and programming have always been integral parts of the job on the *nix side. It seems the swing back towards automation on the Windows side caught a lot of Wintel people flatfooted. I've never worked anywhere in infra where we didn't have some industry standard crap (Windows, Linux, virtualization, SQL, etc.) and industry specific software that plugged into all that some way or another. Yes its a lot to keep track of but that's been the job as long as I've worked infra.
Accomplished_Ad7106@reddit
While I don't disagree, as a "entry level" printer MSP my job keeps expanding to what I consider senior level. If it is truly entry level then why the hell did no one explain job scope / scope creep when I started? If job expansion is truly this normal why is it not explained and normalized to the next generation?
I feel like a lot of the complaining that has been seen by Gen Z is because of this scope creep that everyone else considers normal but was never mentioned/explained to us.
TwoDeuces@reddit
And now Purview, and all of the governance and compliance that goes with it.
EverythingsBroken82@reddit
IT has much more overturn and churn than other professions. a human body for doctors does not change every 4 years.
tankerkiller125real@reddit
I'm always willing to learn new things, at the same time when it comes to the latest greatest trend I'll happily wait 2-3 years before I start learning it for implementation myself. For 1 let all the other people bang their heads over shitty bugs, and 2 I now get to use all the knowledge that other IT people have published from figuring it out themselves. Also sometimes a trend is just that, a trend, sometimes it comes, and then it's gone less than two years later.
stempoweredu@reddit
This is the thing I love about public sector. We prioritize stability, reliability, and cost above everything. We don't touch a technology unless it has proven itself. Sure, means I don't have the latest tech on my resume, but it also means I'm not working myself into an anxiety attack working about it.
AI? Talk to me when you have data governance, cybersecurity, content moderation, regulations, and costing figured out. See you in at least 10 years. Until then, you're not touching my org's infra.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
MDM technology isn't that new, is it? I feel like we were late to get on the Intune bandwagon—not late in a bad way, just after everyone else had taken the first plunge.
tankerkiller125real@reddit
I mean yes you are late, at the same time I would argue that Intune hasn't truly been decent up until around 2 years ago at best.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
I feel the same! Really thankful to jump in when I did.
BasicallyFake@reddit
the rate of change is not anywhere near the same, it's not even in the same galaxy.
ErikTheEngineer@reddit
Knowing solid fundamental skills helps with this a bit, but you're absolutely right. One thing I'm seeing is that in the rush to cloud and SaaS, new people aren't being taught these basics so there's nothing to fall back to and build back up from first principles. It's very possible for someone working in a cloud native company to never have seen servers, switches, disks, the absolute basic building blocks...it's all "fling this YAML at this endpoint and get your cookie" skimming the surface. When the vendors swap everything out just because, lacking that experience means memorizing another API and another YAML-flinging method...that definitely makes for constant frustrating churn.
uptimefordays@reddit
Eh I don't know about that, accountants deal with very frequent rules changes as do lawyers. Much of my career advancement has come from driving migrations and upgrades, moving from one storage provider to another or backup provider to another doesn't really fundamentally change the underlying workloads.
The larger shifts we've seen at least since I started were "from bare metal to VMs," "VMs to the cloud," and now "IaaS anywhere" but those have all been 5-10 year transitions with lots of warnings and opportunities to apply familiar concepts to new approaches or implementations.
Fallingdamage@reddit
Accountants deal with rule changes, they dont have to deal with moving from a base-10 system to a base-12 system while also transitioning from Intuit to Sage products and converting all their books from that old system to the new system.
Every 18 months for decades..
whatdoido8383@reddit
100% agree.
pittyh@reddit
Because every clown with a new idea thinks they will change the way things work, and some suckers fall for it. and you're left holding the bag to implement the shit.
en-rob-deraj@reddit
Many roles in the IT field are not specialized and many are expected to wear all hats.
uptimefordays@reddit
Sure and I would argue a strong, broad, computing foundation makes that possible. I cannot express how unbelievable it sounds when people tell me “I’m an experienced infrastructure person” and they only know operating systems or networking not both.
just_change_it@reddit
What do you think about the kids who got into ML development around the pandemic pulling mid-top six figures?
They probably don't know much networking or infrastructure. Nothing that translates to the typical jack of all trades infra guys who get paid peanuts to RTFM.
uptimefordays@reddit
Honestly? I think many of them will crash out. Living on the bleeding edge is high risk high reward. If you want to make the most money always doing the newest thing is the easiest way, however one misstep and you're dead.
That said, as a generalist who has built their career on automation and ugly migrations and upgrades, I think in the long run I'll be fine. There are a lot of people who make more than me and a lot of people who make less than me, as long as I'm making more than I did before every year, I'm not too concerned.
phiro812@reddit
This, 💯. Take my upvote you glorious bastard.
Hebrewhammer8d8@reddit
They just pivot to C level or middle management because most C level and middle management can't tell the difference.
uptimefordays@reddit
That's not been my observation.
niomosy@reddit
That comes easily with working for larger companies in silos. You get good at your silo but don't get much experience in anything else. They're experienced in the areas they're paid to work in.
Even within my own team, I've got people that aren't developing the basic Linux skills they need for some of their work, given most of our tools are on Linux servers.
Sinister_Nibs@reddit
Our field especially requires continuous learning, since there are constant changes and updates to offerings and platforms.
uptimefordays@reddit
Absolutely, and much of it is built on common fundamental knowledge which is a major part of my confusion about why people are upset about having to adapt to new things in technical roles.
bateau_du_gateau@reddit
It is, but it is also tedious to go back to the things we were doing 20 years with just some new buzzwords slapped on it. And then in a few years we'll rip it all out and go back to something else from decades ago, just with some shiny new hype around it. There hasn't been anything really truly new to learn in this field for a long time. Cloud? Oh yeah they called that mainframe bureau computing in the 1970s.
uptimefordays@reddit
What's old is new!
DHT-Osiris@reddit
For a large portion of the 'our job' part, it isn't really learning technology, it's just learning the new nomenclature that the new product is using that is replacing the old product. Yeah there's always nuanced differences between them that you get to figure out, but there isn't a huge amount of actual 'new' that we've seen over the last 15 or so.
Creshal@reddit
There's continuous learning, and there's continuously churning the same ideas wrapped in increasingly vapid language and worse actual results.
baz4k6z@reddit
That's the thing, you have to constantly learn new stuff to stay relevant. It takes a lot of time and effort so unless you're really passionate about it, it can eventually get draining. At some point maybe you just want to coast to retirement, but it's not always possible.
cmack@reddit
learning is one thing.....dealing with shitcode is another
No_Investigator3369@reddit
But it said network error. Nevermind that shit developer made the output logger "print Network Error" for every god damn i/o issue on their POS software.
whatdoido8383@reddit
Yep, after 20 years of the grind I'm just tired and kinda over having to keep up with it all. I just want to drive a bus or something where I can do one job, clock in and clock out for a while lol.
indigo196@reddit
It is not the constant churn. I love that. What is an issue is that ANYTHING plugged into a wall is my problem when it is not working. We do not ask our users to get better with technology we continue to put the blame on the IT staff. Take MFA for example. People get a new phone (didn't back up their MFA. Did not ask for IT help before they got their new phone) and need IMMEDIATE assistance because now they can't logon to stuff they need. So, IT staff are shotgunned (call as many of us as you can) by them and several of their peers. We are told it is a dire emergency. We get a person dispatched to assist and all that person hears is how broken IT is all the time.
Yeah, that stuff if what I get tired of.
shantyfah@reddit
Well no shit dude. What are they supposed to do? Quit or don’t.
indigo196@reddit
I can't give you that advice. You have to make the decision for yourself.
CCHTweaked@reddit
This is why I've Silo'd.
One system. one stack. all mine.
everything else is someone else's problem.
indigo196@reddit
I am in a place that doesn't silo. I am the guy who has been here the longest. When others cant solve the problem, they come knocking on my door.
g0del@reddit
"Everything plugged into the wall" is what gets me. I'm the sysadmin, why are you calling me to fix the TV that won't switch inputs correctly?
Though it's not as bad as the time the dept head yelled at me because I didn't stop to clean up the coffee that someone had spilled in the stairwell. I hadn't done that because a) I'm the computer janitor, not the janitor janitor, and b) stopping to clean up someone else's mess would have made me late for my meeting with the dept. head.
indigo196@reddit
I once had a person ask me why I had not wiped down their keyboard when I came to replace their monitor. Let me tell you this was person that after their everything bagle directly over their keyboard and based on how the keyboard looked 50% of it fell out of their mouth.
I told them I could help with that. Went and got a cloth, wet it slightly, and then handed it to them. I told them they could throw the cloth away when they were done.
jooooooohn@reddit
"Everything is broken, what do we pay you for?"
"Everything is working, what do we pay you for?"
indigo196@reddit
Bingo!!
FriggNewtons@reddit
just because you love it doesn't mean everyone does.
I have a friend who does this when I try to vent or just let off some steam about IT work (he's in IT too). Anytime I try to express I'm burned out.. it's just.. "Not me! I love my job!"
thanks bud.
indigo196@reddit
I did not intend to deny that some people get burnt out on the constant change.
Centimane@reddit
Background: I currently work for a software development company as a devops admin/SRE/whatever they feel like.
When I started at my current work, they had a surprisingly proactive approach for on boarding. 9am first day was a meeting with a member of IT to make sure everything was set up properly. I didn't have issues because I'm in the industry, but it made a lot of sense for anyone less technical to have an hour of an IT persons time to help with their login, workstation, MFA, UBI-key, etc.
So my thinking is - someone at your org gets a new phone - IT can anticipate the problems associated with a new phone and have a plan.
I guess unless this is MFA on a personal phone, which you wouldn't be able to anticipate when that changes. Though that's what something like ubiKeys are good for.
indigo196@reddit
MFA is on our users personal devices. We do use a YubiKeys, but not many of them.
Fallingdamage@reddit
I get poked at a bit for using an iphone as an IT manager. Honestly, I love it because its the one and only thing in my technical life that stays pretty much the same and is designed by people who know how to make things work.
If developers created solid products, we would spend less time troubleshooting them.
Every now and then I run into a piece of software that works so damn well I'm in awe and wish I could tip my hat. Ive experienced very few bulletproof products that just work despite their environments. That takes skill and dedication.
Mission-Conflict97@reddit
I have trouble even understanding this since pretty much all IT I know have an Iphone for a while a lot of shit we need didn't even run on android.
OmenVi@reddit
I’ve gotten ragged done for 14 years about having an iPhone. My first was a 3GS that I got through work as I was expected to support the executives who were buying them. I got forced into an android X at the job after that. I went through two more ending with a galaxy 6S, and then switched fully back to iPhone, and have been there since.
As much flack as Apple gets for their walled garden, the shit just works, and does what it does beautifully. They’re easy to recover. The interface is buttery smooth. I don’t have to root it. You get the picture. I don’t need to spell it out for you because you’re the same way.
LOLBaltSS@reddit
Anyone who pretty much has to manage a fleet of mobile devices goes Apple for a reason. Enroll the things in DEP, have it enforce your MDM, and call it a day. Settings are consistent between versions as well. Save all the shit on iCloud backups and who cares if a phone gets thrown into a wood chipper, just replace it.
In my help desk days, the company I worked for at the time would buy Android phones instead and due to the differences between carriers and the average production cycle of phone models we had a bunch of different makes/models.
Trying to get users to correctly identify what phone they had so we could grab the specific one from the sample phone desk (so we could see the menu layout for that specific device) was about as fun as a root canal. Everything to them was a "Droid" (Motorola really fumbled the ball despite having that brand recognition, didn't they?). Even more fun was we had some older Windows Mobile based HTC Touch Pro 2s floating around and I was at one point bashing my head against a desk trying to walk someone through resetting what they claimed was a Droid 2 Global only for me to realize that it was one of the TP2s because I recognized the options on the bootloader to be the same ones as my HTC Tilt 2 after enough prodding the user to read off the options.
I've been an Android user for years in my personal life with various Google Nexus, OnePlus, and Nubia devices, but I don't want to manage a bunch of random devices in a mobile fleet again.
ShadowCVL@reddit
I feel this a lot. When smart phones first came around I was hardcore Android, but the constant need for reboots and the need to prod every bit to make it work then go through 6 phones in 3 years made me switch to Apple, right around the 4s I think it was, that phone lasted me 3 years, replaced the battery and got another year before I upgraded.
I understand things have gotten better in that world but it’s so much nicer to have 1 thing I can rely on.
And then there’s everything else in the IT world, like why production patches last night made our seim start logging every authentication as a possible breach….
whatdoido8383@reddit
Yeah, I like how IT evolves and learning new things. My issue lately is most orgs seem to run IT very lean so you're wearing a lot of hats and expected to do 2-3 jobs. With that you have to keep up with all of the changes and learning as well which has also accelerated.
Ans I do agree, people are less competent and patient than ever which again is increase demand for immediate service.
IT overall is more stressful than ever for me currently and I don't enjoy it nearly as much as I used to.
Deminos2705@reddit
So true, we have myself a help desk person who really should be a Jr sys admin for what I do every day and two other tier 1s who barely can function so I handle a lot of that work load too. We have 3 sys admins and 1800 employees. We need like 2 more help desk another sys admin at least and a security guy and some compliance and project managers
whatdoido8383@reddit
Yikes man. The last org I worked for that was properly staffed was a org of around 1300 people. It had IT director, IT manager, myself the infra engineer, a network\phone guy, a security guy, 2 sysadmins, helpdesk manager and 5 L1\2 helpdesk staff. They also had systems admins for the software that was not end user managed, ERP, Website dev's, quality\testing for their code etc.
Really good place to work. The company was sold and the new mothership was a nightmare to work for so I left. I miss my time there often, best 9 years of my IT career and not sure I'll ever experience that again.
fatcakesabz@reddit
Lean…… I hate that. I’ve pulled out of 2 applications recently because the recruiter mentioned that they run a lean department. Lean is just a code word for understaffed and under resourced. I get that finance people just see us as an overhead but, how about seeing us as a force multiplier instead. I’m fighting for server room basics just now and having to do risk cases for the most basic of stuff like a redundant AC unit….
whatdoido8383@reddit
Honestly I think I've only been at one org in my career that staffed correctly and wasn't an absolute pit of stress. What always happens to me is never ending addition of new systems or reorgs which dumps a bunch of new systems on your teams lap, with no additional head count. Or you get head count shifted from these other teams and these dudes are less than useful.
That is my current situation. Was hired on to admin a platform which contained a few services. It was great. Well, 2 years later with some reorg and whatever great ideas management has and we have like a dozen services now. Add in that management always forgets about setting up the correct support structure so support below us is a clown show at best. It's like all these orgs are just winging it all the time with no real plan, it's crazy and the stress just gets dumped on the Engineers that actually have to implement and support the solutions...
kable795@reddit
I hate this but your right lol, I’m only 29, but I actively refuse to treat full grown adults who have raised a family and paid bills for 40 years like helpless children. Either the process stays as shit as it currently is, or we update the process and force users to learn new things. Don’t care either way, sucks for desktop support though. I will not treat someone older than me like a helpless idiot just because they’re interfacing with a monitor.
tiskrisktisk@reddit
It depends on your environment. I work for a hospitality group. Their focus is on hospitality. They don’t want to learn new things and change their process; and I agree, they have too much to deal with already. In IT, we have a predisposition to learn and it’s part of our job to do so. And in return, my boss wants the least friction as possible.
Shoot, when Outlook Desktop moved the hubbar from the bottom to the left, everyone in the company was going crazy. We edited the registry to go back to the old style and it calmed the storm.
Character_Deal9259@reddit
This. My last job fired me because I was too specialized, and they wanted more IT Generalists. So they got rid of me and had the SysAdmins that worked there take over my role despite none of them knowing how to do most of the things that I did.
OiMouseboy@reddit
nah i get tired of the constant churn. right when i'm starting to get super familiar and comfortable with a system. welp time to switch it out for a new system and relearn it all over again.
Josepepowner@reddit
This is the one good thing about an MSP. If it's not in the contract it's billable. And is that smart fridge worth 250 an hour.
1996Primera@reddit
So you too get called when the soda stream or microwave isn't working?
indigo196@reddit
Yes. I am an expert. I can do anything - The Expert (Short Comedy Sketch)
gramathy@reddit
It’s no so much about if there’s chit as it is how much churn there is. Management constantly buying into sales pitches on the next new thing so you never get to stabilize on anything can be incredibly frustrating.
indigo196@reddit
I get that. Management wants their lobster dinners and free sports tickets to continue, so they buy hundreds of thousands of dollars of duplicative products.
VernapatorCur@reddit
Funny thing is the end user behavior you're describing is exactly what the IT guys OP is talking about are doing.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Yes! That's exactly what it feels like. Makes me want to give the actual end users a little more credit.
crypto64@reddit
Give it 20 years and you will be burned out too.
degoba@reddit
You nailed it. Im also 20 year in and early 40s. Started as a hardware monkey then moved into Solaris and then Linux administration. Right now im being thrust into Kubernetes management. Its not just the constant re learning its the abstraction. Abstraction on top of abstraction. Constant context switching. I tired.
whatdoido8383@reddit
Yeah, my problem is IT is all I've ever known. I'd love to give something else a try but I'm not sure what to do nor can take a huge pay cut to do so. Honestly if my current job didn't have on call I'd probably be ok. 15 years of ( no additional pay) on call really takes it's toll.
Mission-Conflict97@reddit
I'm 35 already worn out for me its not the learning that wore me out so much as the learning seems kinda pointless now, you can't learn enough to save you in this career anymore. You go into an interview and even if you bust your ass getting certed the fuck up and being a rockstar they will ask you some random trivia that has nothing to do with the job and act like you are a dumbass loser. Then you find out 2000 people applied for that job. Then you find out the job wants to pay like $25 an hour but wants a masters degree and 19 certs and even if you somehow have those certs they will kick you out somewhere inbetween 6 interviews for failing to know some trivia off the top of your head. So you go to your next "opportunity" and after 2 interviews they tell you that the decided to cancel the job do to lack of qualified applicants out of 6000 people that applied. How do you even give a fuck in this industry anymore its clown world. When I feel like the end result for me is getting pushed out whether I try or not its hard for me to try anymore and maybe I'll be happier doing something else anyway.
whatdoido8383@reddit
Absolutely understand and agree. You can't really know enough to do one job, now it's the knowledge of 2-3 jobs stacked together. The other issue is companies expect you to know all this stuff right off the bat instead of taking into consideration maybe their tech stack is different ( as all typically are) and you need to train up a bit. Nope, they want you to be a sysadmin, M365 SharePoint, Teams, Exchange guru, security guy, networking guy, database admin, and know how to admin 3 obscure in house pieces of software they built. It's nuts.
Even the M365 admin job I currently have, they keep releasing and integrating more and more features before we can even skill up to support them. And of course, no additional head count.
I don't mean to turn into a bitchfest, I'm just so burned out after years and years of this.
tiskrisktisk@reddit
Heck yes. When I was new, I’d love to tinker and implement new ideas. But over the years, I realized how I have to own every new project if I’m the one implementing it or suggesting it. And heck, you only have so much time in a day.
Nowadays, I just want everything to stay the same. It’s all working. We all have a good work life balance. Everyone is happy. Then the young whipper snapper over here wants us to put in a summer’s worth of OT so we can change an established process that ultimately will save us enough time so we can learn another one of his pea-brained ideas.
OP might be too new. But implementing ideas means owning the idea from start to finish. And I haven’t implemented anything without running into issues at some point in the process. Then you have everyone running to you asking you why this plan was even worth it. Eventually, you want everything to stay the same. You like the work/life balance and just want to deal with existing issues rather than causing new ones.
whatdoido8383@reddit
Yep, exactly. The older you get and the longer you've been in it, the more you just want to maintain a bit instead of constantly be working on something new.
My latest job was great in the beginning. I was brought in to maintain a system and maybe help them improve the system a bit for a better user experience. Well, now a few years in and there has been some reorg. They've shuffled a bunch of stuff to us now including all sorts of migrations into our platform. We're now a key system in the business and have on call again and are busier that ever. Not what I was looking for at this stage in my career, I hate it and yeah, I'm grumpy now.
Some of the younger dudes\dudettes or people with no real life on my team are soaking it up and loving it. They don't have a family to raise nor quite the life structure setup yet so it's no big deal to them to work weekends or constantly. It is a big deal to me.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
This is a really nice comment, and I think you're right. It's a lot for me, too, but I haven't had to keep learning and changing for 30 years straight. I get to automate huge chunks of our job and basically get paid to solve interesting puzzles all day.
Still, there are tools that would let them do that, too, and they refuse to use them. I'm torn between hand-holding and probably belittling them, and backing off and being perceived as hostile. Is there a third way where I can give them support and continue to help them feel appreciated?
EverythingsBroken82@reddit
there will be a day where you stop liking to solve puzzles and learning new tools, it's for the most of us. and then suddenly you will see that the young persons can do it much faster than you and your old knowledge is not relevant anymore.
It's not an attack on you (neither from me or your colleagues), but your colleagues just hit that wall. If they are reflective persons, they will get to terms with it. sadly many admins are not very reflective.
It really depends how they are at their core beyond their IT skills. are they honest persons? or opportunistic? are they malleable?
Also, back in the day, security solutions and stuff like MDMs WERE responsible for many outtages (IMHO still are, remember crowdstrike, i also do not trust them, but they are not as important with linux).. they come from a world, where you distrust such stuff.
First and foremoest you should be careful, so they cannot pin anything on you, which is not right.
other than that:
If they still want to learn a bit, make a sesssion with them, with the official pretext you want to verify what you learned and they should check. in reality you will show them new stuff, repeat that with different settings but similar topics
give them some time
y'all partition your work, so they keep the work, where they can shine, and you do the other work
if they are honest people, aproach them at a beer and ask them why do they not like that software, ask them about old warstories and so on. show them, that you respect them and that outside of work where it is mandated.
zeptillian@reddit
You can learn and grow in your career while they continue to do whatever they are doing. No need to interfere or come up with a plan to drag them anywhere against their will.
Just do your job and if you look like a rockstar in comparison, that will be better for you and your career.
Cool_Radish_7031@reddit
Keep at Intune! Been working IT for 10 years and I truly can't see it going away for a while. Honestly super impressed you started with Intune, so many quirks and cool to see people getting in the field that way
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Thank you! It is a frustrating tool, but when it works, it WORKS. I certainly didn't imagine I'd be doing this four years ago.
Cool_Radish_7031@reddit
It definitely is frustrating, you're probably already on there but would recommend going to r/Intune if you ever need any help. Super small community of us, but alot of the Microsoft Intune MVP guys go on there quite a bit. Has been really helpful with random Autopilot or Win32 issues. Good luck on your journey and wish you the best
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Yes! I love r/Intune. They're great for sanity checks as well. Thanks!
TechMeOut21@reddit
You’re gonna do just fine in this field.
Iwonatoasteroven@reddit
This is why I got out of being hands on. You’re never done having to master something new.
whatdoido8383@reddit
What are you doing now?
bschmidt25@reddit
This. I’ve been at this for 25 years and the last 5 have been the most challenging by far. Vendors are garbage right now, IMO, epitomized by Broadcom.
bschmidt25@reddit
This. I’ve been at it for 25 years and the last 5 have been the most challenging so far. I think my biggest complaint is that technology that I’ve used for the last nearly 20 years, like vSphere, is being gobbled up greedy fucks like Broadcom or private equity, who then turn around and bend everyone over for newly created and expensive subscription licenses, all in the name of pleasing the other billionaires they cavort with. It’s no longer about providing the best product or innovation, it’s about monetization and greed. This is hardly exclusive to Broadcom though. Seems most vendors don’t want to be good partners anymore. As someone who is in charge of budgeting and cost containment, it’s becoming damn near impossible to plan every year.
LenR75@reddit
Dot EDU’s seem notorious for what we call “RIP’s”, Retired In Place. They stay around for years doing very little or nothing. They seem to be rewarded for some prior miracle or know the dirt on the right people.
There were things I managed to avoid, but about half because people wouldn’t share enough to get started. I stumble around AD / LDAP because it’s such a mess and then I can’t see into the Azure stuff.
But, I learned and became the Elasticsearch expert after 60 :-)
Comfortable_Gap1656@reddit
Part of that might be due to them working at a university. It is basically impossible to get fired or layed off.
ronmanfl@reddit
This is definitely a benefit to being in a large enterprise with deeply entrenched silos… there’s so much distance between groups it’s impossible to have the kind of devops mindset across the board.
skotman01@reddit
I had a conversation with someone a few years older than me who was also in the tech industry, his thought was once he couldn’t keep up with the technology churn, he’d move into Managment.
That stuck with me and I recently took that advice to heart. I just can’t hang enough to become an expert in everything anymore and a Managment opportunity presented itself and I jumped. Now instead of developing code, managing networks, helping people who should know more than I, I’m enjoying my semi cushy role as a manager.
JustMeAgainMarge@reddit
As an IT with about 40 years in, I can tell you, part of it is this idea that you need something new and shiny.
Although it's not being widely reported, a group just proved you could run ai on an old small system, no need for the latest and shines bit of tech an windows whatever.
Much of what we do today, you could do with free Linux or windows 2000.
All this churn is unneeded.
Why did you need to change provisioning? What didn't work? While you feel great accomplishment in implementing the new system, why was it neede. And was it really?
Lardwagon@reddit
IT is a shit show where everything is a licenced money grab with the latest buzzword slapped all over it. This has pretty much always been the case but it just feels worse these days.
It used to be enough that you knew how to do your job. Now you've got to do a song and dance for LinkedIn and get a new job every 2 to 3 years just to stay ahead of inflation.
largos7289@reddit
Well i can't speak for Dirk or Colin but i would suspect it's the same. I'm DONE. i've been in this customer facing role for far too long and i've given up many hours of my time for other people and honestly I'm over it. It's also half the reason i transitioned from IT- IT to more a management role. I can touch IT if i want to or i can just Manage. I've got 7 more years to retirement and honestly can't come fast enough. I'm tired of printers, tired of learning new stuff, tired of end users and just plain tired of IT. I would love it if i could do a 10 month but they don't offer it in my band. I'm also starting to get tired of the talking heads in management about IT. I went into thinking i'll change their thinking because i come from a IT background and i can tell them straight how it is. LOL yea that's not working i tried fighting the good fight from within and honestly i'm done. I'm just going to collect my pay check till i get my cake. I let the new guys learn and i mentor them, that's probably the best thing i do that brings me any joy anymore. I love seeing the guys learn new stuff all excited to try it out. I learn a bit and they get to build their resume. I just educate them on how management is and what to watch out for.
netronin@reddit
This is the way. 30+ years in IT and the only way to stay in the game this long is to transition to management. I've mentored my team along the way and now they are my senior guys and I get to direct the team. It's still a grind but at least its tolerable for the last 8 or so years until retirement.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Aww, I'm sorry your experience has been like that. IT is a little unique in that everything overhauls all the time. If you're a farmer, miner, or carpenter, while those jobs are super physically demanding, once you learn how to do them, you can keep doing the same stuff and slowly improve for the rest of your life.
It sounds like you're a good mentor, helping new guys learn both the tech and the people sides. I want to be like that someday, but I'm praying I'll avoid the burnout.
bbqwatermelon@reddit
Autopilot so so dank I dont understand how anyone can not be excited about it. Do they happen to work a lot with SCCM?
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
I don't think we've ever used SCCM, and certainly not in the past 15 years. I'm excited, though, and so is the part of our team that handles the physical side of onboarding/offboarding computers. Autopilot sucks when random stuff breaks, but when it works, it WORKS.
zinver@reddit
The worst part of cloud solutions is that in reality Azure, AWS, etc. are not technology driven products or protocols, they are business (legal Ponzi scheme) products.
You're not learning a technology stack, you are learning how to (re)sell someone else's technology stack and what's worse you don't even get a sales commission.
Really, the issue is that the focus is less on engineering a solution and more so integrating and cost analyzing providers.
It's a generational thing. a lot of the older generation (lets say 1970 to 2010) got into this line of work because we were given this grand puzzle to solve and interconnect with byte-fields and bootloaders and protocols and core dumps. Now we get to write scripts and pay bills.
Which is fine. Do your thing, make yourself successful within the time you have been given and find your own puzzles to solve.
You can always depend on the old cranky neckbeards in the back to tell you about the glory days of magnetic tape carousels.
en-rob-deraj@reddit
Because IT is exhausting. The everchanging role is exhausting. What you learn today, will be replaced tomorrow.
cats_are_the_devil@reddit
Now hang 30 years in university politics on top of that...
Yeah, they got reasons bro.
golfing_with_gandalf@reddit
Academia is no joke. My wife is in academia, got colleagues in academia IT... the more I hear about it, the more I die inside, and I don't even have to truly deal with it.
Anyone putting up with it for 30 years earns my respect in some regards, in other regards I wonder if they aren't broken in some way.
Finn_Storm@reddit
I did an internship at a university, it was absolute hell. The single person that was in charge of classroom assignments could never make up her mind. I switched two classrooms four times once
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
This is fair. We have a fantastic director and CIO who take a lot of heat for us, but anyone in a user-facing role interacting with upper management is going to feel it.
redvelvet92@reddit
None of this is true, all the knowledge I’ve gained over the last decade has compounded and systems are far easier to learn now than they once were.
_ELAP_@reddit
I’m Dirk and Collin. I’ve been a sysadmin for 28+ years and I’m over it. I just login every day to do the bare minimum to collect my paycheck and benefits while waiting to retire.
No_Investigator3369@reddit
Because SR level pay is hitting a ceiling that is far from the worth of the health problems that come with them. I started having brain injury shit in the last year. I honestly need a break to allow the electricity to die down in my brain. This is either going to occur from 1. making enough money to fund the days off or
company hiring enough staff.
Give up the enthusiasm I had for the job 10 years ago. For healths sake.
Sin_of_the_Dark@reddit
Please tell me this is a small, private university in Michigan...
To answer your question, often it's just complacency. I've seen it a lot in my career. They find a gig they like, don't want to go any further up the food chain (which is cool, we need dedicated peeps everywhere), and most importantly, don't want to do more work than necessary. It's how you wind up with 50-60 year old help desk "technicians" that can't do anything beyond resetting passwords and adding people to groups.
It does get frustrating when it makes your job harder, though. I can understand where you're coming from.
Resident-Artichoke85@reddit
If the processes are documented and in the KB, stop helping them. Politely tell them when they ask, "Hey, I'm busy right now. Please check the KB, it's all documented".
Essex626@reddit
Have you spoken to them about it? I might talk to whichever one you feel is most approachable, and ask about it.
To be honest, it sounds less like it's about you and more like it's about a combination of burnout and increasing old-man grumpiness. I know that as I near 40 I have more and more of a tendency to be crotchety and curmudgeonly over really stupid stuff, and sometimes I need it pointed out that I am doing it. I'm sure that's just going to be more pronounced when I've been doing it for 30+ years.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
I'm totally fine with the curmudgeonly grumpiness. They're self-aware enough to know they're doing that, and I love that I have teammates who have no problem saying "no" and pointing out flaws in the system. On a personal level, they're fantastic and hilarious. The passive-aggression weaponized incompetence is what's new, and probably explained by the burnout side of your comment.
SteveSyfuhs@reddit
Why are you asking people that don't know them? Ask them. Ask your boss.
It's like asking the internet why your foot hurts: all you're going to get is an answer that you have cancer of the pinky toenail. Might incidentally be true by chance, but it's obviously not based on any actual knowledge of the situation.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
I have. My boss is very professional and spends a lot of time one-on-one time with each of us to make sure we have what we need. We haven't hit a tipping point yet, so I'm asking Reddit to get the broader answer to "how do things like this normally work for older/newer people in IT" and so far, y'all have been really kind and helpful.
Tilt23Degrees@reddit
Because this industry sucks the life out of you and when you do it for 15-20 years you realize it's not worth the bullshit.
Especially when you constantly get rotating new corporate heads who want to "make a splash" at a company and force you to implement shit that you know isn't going to work the way they intended it to.
All while documenting and expressing this, they still continue on forcing you to implement dog shit products and platforms.
You implement it, it breaks and doesn't do what was intended, now you're blamed for the failure and next thing you know it's on your performance review.
Meanwhile your non-technical manager who eats corporate shit for breakfast and loves the smell of his boss's asshole at 8am? He got a promotion and is now a director!!!!!
SupremeChancellor@reddit
this perfectly describes the cause of my burnout. like every thing in this happened to me, over and over. its too real.
The only way to survive is to not care and go on autopilot. I found that is the one of the most difficult things i have to - ignore obvious documented issues or people having problems.
Tilt23Degrees@reddit
Have you considered buying land and growing organic produce for your local community?
Maybe getting into something tangible and moving away from this nonsense where we just shuffle paperwork and blame all day long will help us all.
I have decided to leave IT by the end of 2026.
I am in the process now of studying soil, learning how to balance pH and I am buying acreage to start something small. I’m going to start a local produce business and grow organic produce, help my community out. Even if it starts at a loss, that’s all fine to me.
The truth is this industry is fucking horrible, we are competing with third world labor rates, the people in charge of us are fucking incompetent morons who don’t even have a background in tech.
I’ve been here for too long, thankfully I saved a lot of cash and I’m going to hit the emergency evacuation and get out in the next year.
I truly recommend you try and do the same, at whatever time is comfortable or reasonable for you.
Fuck corporate and fuck this system.
zzmorg82@reddit
I feel you on that. I only got 5 years in the game at age 29 but I’m already feeling and seeing the turmoil this field gets to you.
I’ve been looking into investing/trading pretty heavy recently, so I’m probably going to keep doing IT for another 10-15 years while investing/trading heavy and then transition to a more simplistic job (less money and simple work) while leveraging the interest earned from my investments and live that way.
I definitely don’t want to still be doing this while I’m in my twilight years (50s).
Bright_Arm8782@reddit
50 is not twilight years, you young whippersnapper.
zzmorg82@reddit
Hey man….they started calling me “Unc” just last year so I don’t know what else I’ll be by the time I’m a half-century old. 😂
KaleidoscopeLegal348@reddit
Dude unless you are maxing on passive ETFs, that is a great way to bleed money long term
zzmorg82@reddit
Eh, you make a good point.
It’s still early for me on how I plan to go about it; just mainly focusing on getting my portfolio mapped out now and I’ll get with an financial advisor to see what logically feasible and what’s not.
Ultimately, I’ll probably still be working in my 50/s/60s; I just don’t want IT to still be my main source income by that point; ideally I’d be doing something more laid back while having passive income/compounding interest do the heavy lifting.
kerosene31@reddit
Exactly. So many of these corporate types are working on an 18 month to 2 year timer.
They start a new job, and the clock starts. 2 years in (max) and they either get promoted, or they move laterally, either within or a new company. They don't care about long term, because they will be gone.
Is their dumb project idea going to blow up in 3 years? Who cares, they'll be gone and on to the next thing.
Not everyone is like that, but a lot of them are.
CptBronzeBalls@reddit
Exactly. Dirk and Collin have forgotten more about IT than OP has ever learned. They’re fucking tired of it. It’s just something else to learn so that you can lose sleep and sanity supporting it for the next 6 years and you have to learn the next new thing.
Dirk and Collin just want some goddamn peace and quite as they hold on by their fingernails until retirement, hoping that their raging alcoholism doesn’t kill them first. But also kind of hoping it does.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
"forgotten more about IT than OP has ever learned" <-- YES. That is beautifully put.
OmagnaT@reddit
None of this is an excuse for the passive aggresive and disparaging behavior from them towards OP
ellensen@reddit
Also, when you have done it for 20 years you realize that you are only half way ..
nwmcsween@reddit
This is the real reason, you have 3 hours of meetings a day with people that can barely tie their own shoes and you know this x million dollar project will have issues due to real documented CYA issues you have brought up 500x times just to be ignored or worse somehow because you know the most about it it's now your responsibility.
xDannyS_@reddit
Sounds like you need to acquire a taste for ass
Tilt23Degrees@reddit
Yea I needed to acquire a taste for ass 12 years ago, it’s too late for me.
I’m buying acreage in a few months and starting a farm.
Fuck this bullshit lol.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
That may be true, and I may have newbie rose-colored glasses.
A lot of us have been here a really long time, and we're a pretty tight-knit group. It's the first job I've had where we go behind our director's back to talk about how much we appreciate him and how much he does for us. I may be seeing a happy little family in the short term, while they've been exposed to more change, more politics, and all the client-facing drama that I'm mostly shielded from.
Thank you for that perspective.
IJustLoggedInToSay-@reddit
Oh, the happy little family is not one company or even one team, though. As people move on with their careers, you'll keep up with them and even meet them again in new roles. It's kind of fun to start a new job they're like "here's the cloud architect you'll be working with" and it's the person you taught linux commandline basics to 15 years ago. (True story!)
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Aww, that's awesome! Makes me look forward to being a mentor to someone else someday :) I do love the community here and between other universities, and I look forward to experiencing more of that. I love seeing the same people at conferences and sharing similar stories/frustrations/wins
cheeseburgermachine@reddit
This is all 100 percent true and I hate it. Fml
IJustLoggedInToSay-@reddit
Especially when the technology concepts just go around in circles while everyone keeps pretending they invented something new.
Tilt23Degrees@reddit
not to mention the dog shit on call requirements, where you're literally on call 24x7x365 and have absolutely zero downtime.
Meanwhile management? Do you think they're on call? Never. They are way to good for that.
Lando_uk@reddit
If the shit hits the fan, hopefully Dirk and Colin will step into action prove their worth, we have people like this who still really shine during critical periods (emergencies, DR, attacks) but the day to day, week to week BAU is just a drag for most people who's been in the game forever.
"oh no, Windows is EOL again, we need to upgrade all our servers/endpoints" - this was interesting the1st or 2nd time, but when you've done it 6 or 7 times its just a drag, intune or not.
phillymjs@reddit
We old guys are tired, man. Like other commenters said, the pace of change has only gotten faster, and trying to keep up with every development in tech is like drinking from a fire hose. People only have so much capacity to learn new stuff.
When I was younger I read a half dozen tech news sites daily, then would come home after a long day of work, eat a quick dinner, and tinker on my workbench until bedtime. Now? I generally don’t care about almost any development in tech unless it directly affects me.
I’ve seen employers flush years of my hard-won experience down the toilet because they wanted to save a few bucks by switching from one product I knew like the back of my hand to a different one I knew nothing about. You do all this work to get things into a good state and then have to tear it all out and start over. I get where those guys are coming from. I still have 10-15 years left before retirement and thinking about that fact hurts.
music2myear@reddit
Lots of other good advice here, and I'll just add this:
The only people you need to make sure understand your efforts, skills, and impacts, are your bosses. They make sure you keep getting paid, and so they are the ones you need to make sure have a clear picture what is going on.
If they're good bosses they could hear your frustrations and possibly adjust expectations for these two old codgers and get them to think twice before rolling the (school)bus over you again.
If they're adequate bosses, they'll take everything Dirk and Collin say with a (large) grain of salt and believe the evidence of their eyes supporting you more, and so all D&Cs little digs will mean nothing.
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
Leave them alone. After 3 decades in this industry, they are probabaly sick of just reinventing the wheel for no good purpose. And before you go and explain how much betyter things might be with cloud, you have to ask yourself did the company really need it? Where is the ROI? Did moving your infrastructute to the cloud accomplish any of the following:
In the end, moving everything to the cloud, with new names for the same old stuff, is heart breaking and a waste of everyones times, espeically since its very hard to show how much better it is (in dollars spent), then on prem infra.
Thats why they don't care. At least thats why I don't. 30 years in, and planning for yet another expensive desktop upgrade to Win11 with no ROI to show for it.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Moving to the cloud wasn't my decision. We needed to support remote workers, and Active Directory over the VPN wasn't cutting it. We are measurably saving (a little) money now, and our adjacent departments report that people are actually having fewer issues than they did on the old system.
All that to say, we're not just jumping in after the shiniest new thing. Intune meets our needs much better than on-prem KACE did, and while there are obviously going to be things that need tweaking, so far, everyone except these two is quite happy with it.
Wagnaard@reddit
Burn out. Part of it is just getting older the, "this is the way we've always done it" becomes a thing. Moreso though, every year the constant security threats and the need for immediate remediation; the constant changes while documentation and support can't keep up themselves; endless subscriptions and endless new technologies to keep track of.
It just breaks you a bit more every year.
Also, common advice to younger people is, "do what you love!" and if you enjoy technology and playing around with it going into IT seems to make sense. Then you get to a point where you just want to play a few old games and read TVTropes and technology is frustrating.
TinderSubThrowAway@reddit
Meh, this sounds like fan fic to be honest.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
LoL what bizarre fan fic do you read?
TinderSubThrowAway@reddit
It’s filled with every trope you see around here.
tiskrisktisk@reddit
Dude even gave them petty names like Dirk and Collin. You’re probably right.
TinderSubThrowAway@reddit
Well a year ago she was talking about how she used KACE to manage the fleet for remote employees and talked about “Upper Management” which isn’t how one talks about university hierarchy.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Oh no, you caught me lol. I'm new to managing tech stuff and haven't picked up all the university-specific lingo. What does one call the directors, CIO, etc., at a university? They're not the senior leadership team, because that's closer to the board of directors for the entire university...
Yes, Dirk and Collin are names that I made up, similar enough to their real names that I can remember which one is which. I'm glad you find them entertaining.
Also, I'm flattered that you cared enough to read my post history :)
Moontoya@reddit
You've basically undercut them and built out competitor systems
You're essentially working them out of jobs
You likely didn't intend it, but that's what they'll be seeing
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
The way I see it, more changes mean more user education (how to access Company Portal, how to sign in with UPN instead of username, how to map drives, etc.), and therefore more work for them, at least in the short term. I'm trying to position us well for their inevitable retirement and loss of all that knowledge and expertise, but I can't wrap my head around them feeling pushed out.
Moontoya@reddit
I've been in their shoes
I've had those I've mentored drive projects that largely obsolete my work
Most of the time it's necessary and good work , but it can impact the personal relationship. Look at it another way, it could be seen as training your replacement, whether or not they are or that's the intention, that's what it can be interpreted as
A few times it's been malicious, but my PFYs were less Machiavelli and more pinky and the brain
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
This makes sense. They really were good mentors, and I feel like I owe them everything. There's no way that someone with 0 IT experience ever starts handling an Intune migration while single-handedly running JAMF and AVD for many specialized departments without A LOT of coaching and support.
I love the Pinky and the Brain analogy. They are way smarter and falling prey to their own genius, while I'm over here in a pink tutu, asking the (to me) obvious questions and stumbling into success.
"Why, what are we doing tomorrow night?"
"The same thing we do every night. Try to update a license server and not botch it."
Quietwulf@reddit
Hard as it may be to believe, the human mind really does seem to have limits.
All that stuff you're working so hard to build now? All that hard won knowledge? 5 years time? No one will care. They'll ask you to rip it out or let it rot, in favor of "the new hotness". No worries! You'll start over! You'll go through all this again and skill up! Then again... and again.. and again.
At some point, you'll have a realisation. It's getting harder and harder each time to do this, yet things aren't slowing down. You *want* to keep up, but you're exhausted. The boundless energy you used to have seems to be slipping. You've got more stressors at home and in life. Parents become ill, kids to worry about, friends die. Life happens and it starts to take it's toll.
Everyone thinks it won't happy to them. They'll never burn out, they'll never get old and tired. Maybe you will be the exception. But I certainly don't judge those who get caught out.
How do you deal with it? You don't. You're not their manager. All you need to do is keep doing what you're doing. If work isn't getting done and you're becoming overloaded, you report that to your manager. When they ask why you don't get XYZ to help? You explain they've simply been unwilling. Then you make it your managers problem.
Oh and they probably are threatened by you. They probably do know on some level they're slipping. It's a scary feeling. Try not to take it personally. It's just time catching up with them.
Whatstheplan@reddit
I feel personally attacked.
Library_IT_guy@reddit
Shit man, I've only been doing it for 15 years and I'm already sick of it. You learn stuff and get good at stuff and by the time you master it, there's something else you have to learn. It's like you're climbing a hill and you finally reach the top and think you can sit down for a minute to have a rest... and then realize that you're just on a small plateau and you'll have to start up another hill soon. It's exhausting.
There's a saying... "youth is wasted on the young". Man, you don't appreciate it until it's gone. I'm only 40 but being 25 again with a good IT job I just landed would be amazing.
saagtand@reddit
Perhaps it's the "good old" sexism at play? Old men are often afraid of smart young women exceeding their competence.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
I highly doubt it. I have inside information that there was another, more qualified candidate for my position, and the deciding factor in my favor was "gender diversity." If there is sexism at play, it's in my favor (another reason for me to stand up for my coworkers so they're not dismissed as "old white men")
cmack@reddit
That's your narrative and issue....gtfoh
saagtand@reddit
Snowflake
cmack@reddit
Inaccurate, but you are indeed psycho
IJustLoggedInToSay-@reddit
I think they are probably just getting burned out, to be honest. I'm of a similar age and been at this a few decades now, and most of what I think about is how to not be at work anymore. Every year it's a dozen new things to learn, which was fine when I was in my thirties. But now it's just exhausting and not fun anymore.
It also doesn't help that with the current political and economic trajectories, things like social security and retirement are quickly becoming a pipe dream. We joke like "after one of these projects maybe I'll finally get to retire at Club Casket!" So, yeah it's bleak out there right now.
Thank god for younger people. Mentoring them and watching them surpass us is the only thing that makes going to work even mean anything anymore.
Your coworkers, though, they seem pretty emotionally immature. They're not sure what to do with all this, maybe, and instead of lifting you up they are associating you with the changing technology. Instead of seeing you as someone they can rely on, they're just resentful. I've seen that before.
OK, feelings garbage aside, here's the real advice:
1. Document everything and cover your ass. If this is how they want to self-destruct, then that's not your fault. But don't let them take you down with them. Resentful has-been shit-talkers of productive young employees that everyone likes will find themselves holding a pink slip. Which brings me to:
2. Be visible, get face time with users and leadership. Become the face of the team, if you're not already. You're not a junior anymore, so go over their head and start talking to their boss. Yes, really. Come up with some reason to do it - a new technology or asking about your career options or anything really.
3. Keep your resume updated and/or get your antennae out for new opportunities. There is no shame in taking the training and using it to propel yourself to a better situation.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the actionable advice and not just taking sides. I feel like all my bases are covered in these areas, and it's validating to hear that I'm on the right track. I am 100% not worried about my future here, just the current work environment and the sanity of my coworkers, who really are great people when they don't have computers in front of them.
usahooray@reddit
Yes AI
Tarcanus@reddit
I know most people don't like to hear it, but we also have unmitigated COVID still spreading around at rates higher than during 2020. Now, it doesn't kill as often as it used to, but every infection is now known to cause vascular damage which can wear down cognitive function. Folks who never took precautions are likely up to double digit infection numbers by now, over 5 years in.
The ONLY reason I bring this up is because you describe an attitude change and not just them nicely avoiding learning the new tech. If they just started coasting, trying to hang on until retirement, I don't think they would've gotten as aggressive or angry as you've described.
Obviously, nothing is really provable, but I would suspect some cognitive damage is finally setting in on these chaps.
I also agree with others that over time, the constant ridiculous user requests or constant leadership push for the latest thing they've been duped into believing is the new panacea for all of their woes gets extremely old. Morale busting, even. Especially in places where, despite the new tech, nothing really changes and the same nonsense keeps repeating in different formats. I'm 40 this year and it's already wearing on me. It'll be hard keep this up for another 20 - though maybe it'll stop being as ridiculous after the AI bubble bursts and leadership suddenly realizes it isn't the perfect fix they've been sold.
No-Scar8745@reddit
Those of us who are old enough understand tha the cloud it is a liability. You are giving control to a third party over your infrastructure
FederalDish5@reddit
IT is a shit show - now even worse due too many AI stuff and too many sales people in this business. Constant changes, always new stuff, always the last department to be notified, disrespected and view by everyone like a cost
maxfischa@reddit
Same here and i simply cut any comunications except if needed and defined in workflows. I even go as far as tell my boss that he needs to assign them the tasks as boss and we are now at the stage where they get binding workorders just so there can be consequences if they refuse. Sad but the only way. If they dont wanna do the work because they dont like it we simply cant afford them to do nothing all day.
djaybe@reddit
I've been doing IT for over 30 years now and as I think about all the people I've worked with over the years, it takes a special kind of crazy to still have passion for this stuff. I don't think most people are that crazy.
jdptechnc@reddit
Speaking as a middle aged white guy. If we do not watch ourselves and have the proper balance in our lives, our careers end up being the biggest part of our identity. The care and feeding we put into fill-in-the-blank and the sense of pride and accomplishment goes out the window every 7-10 years if not more frequently, due to technology advancements, job changes (forced or unforced) etc. Guys take it more personally than maybe we should if we let it.
None of that excuses the way you are being treated and your leadership's handling of your team. You are handling things correctly. If anything, I would say make sure you make all necessary preparations to cover your own butt and stand up for yourself to your team mates and leadership.
In front of the users, always take the high road. Your successes are team successes, their failures are team failures, don't badmouth anyone, etc. Which you are probably already doing.
I_T_Gamer@reddit
Sounds to me like retirement is close for them, and they're done. I worked in a school system for years, and lots of folks there just getting by. Showing up, and going home, no interest in actually participating.
cmack@reddit
We've seen this enshitification before. It's speeding up and no longer any fun.
So the answer is as it has always been. Management and venture capitalists.
Zealousideal_Ad642@reddit
27 years in for me. I'm tired boss.
I'll learn stuff if it's relevant to whatever I need to do at work but when I'm off the clock I have zero interest unlike I did in the early days
tiskrisktisk@reddit
Shoot. Most of the time something new is implemented, we’re dreading the time spent troubleshooting and the fallout associated with it. And in the end, if rarely even helps the way it was intended and everyone hates the new processes.
OP works for a school. Are the kids learning? Are the teachers teaching? Maybe it’s best to just leave everyone alone and let us grind out the time until our retirement.
I don’t want to give up a summer implementing something everyone might hate. What ever happened to “if it works, don’t fix it”?
bishop375@reddit
Yeah, this is about right for me, too.
Nearly 30 years of "I want this new technology for everyone that isn't going to work, and I don't care about your expertise, and I don't want you to tell me why it won't work. You make it work or someone else will," gets REAL tiring.
zeptillian@reddit
Why doesn't this new software do the thing you warned me it would not be able to do? Can you put it back the way it was?
Cryptic1911@reddit
100% the same here. I've got homelab stuff I was in the middle of migrating and it's been sitting half done for like a year now because I don't really want to look at it 😒
FreeAnss@reddit
Because they’re probably being treated like shit from their bosses. No raises, stealing vacation etc.
Muffin_Shreds@reddit
I wouldn't rule out sexism. Lady here, 15years IT exp. I've experienced a lot of sexism in the workplace.
pastie_b@reddit
I'm glad I haven't reached the level of burnout some of the commenters have, although having a young child has made everything at least twice as difficult.
Fantaghir-O@reddit
I have a teammate like that. He's against all that is new. Some of his trepidation is the fear of this new tool will replace him in the future. Some are just the anxiety of learning new things while dealing with a heavy workload. Some are just the exhaustion of feeling not heard, especially if a 'young whippersnapper' is finally getting through to management. And sometimes it's just plain old stubbornness and sticking to the old proven ways.
I have no solution for you. Just keep doing the good job you're doing.
a_wild_thing@reddit
quite literally https://youtu.be/5DlTexEXxLQ?si=hMDM8yxWljRked1-
Bright_Arm8782@reddit
I think they've lost heart, the wunderkind they trained has surpassed them (which should be the goal of any training) and they see the writing on the wall.
Their skillset is obsolescent and made more so with each passing implementation that you do.
They remember when they were the new hot shit and know that they aren't anymore, their morale and motivation have gone, they're just collecting the pay grumping along.
I'd say keep doing what you're doing and don't let them drag you down, use their behaviour as an example of what to avoid.
JustSomeGuyFromIT@reddit
Maybe they try to be polite and not waste your time training them because they will retire soon? But to be honest sometimes people just don't want to learn one specific thing even if it kills them.
cats_are_the_devil@reddit
30-35 years in a career will make you a jaded person if you don't have the right support system. These guys are IT admins for a university. They have to deal with the day to day of IT overcomplications + politics of a university.
They are just ready to retire.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
I get that. I hope they enjoy their last few years here and have great retirements, but boy, do I miss having a safety net. I'm sort of finding new mentors in other areas of IT, but it's not the same.
EverythingsBroken82@reddit
you will be the safety net soon for someone else. :)
TammyK@reddit
Yep working for a university you learn to identify the people who just want to be left alone and ride out their shifts until retirement. There's plenty of fresh faces who are eager to learn and help, you just have to learn who is who.
AristotleDeLaurent@reddit
The scariest part of all this for me is that i don't want to be those guys, ever. I want to keep learning, growing, expanding, focusing back on core strengths of critical thinking, creative problem solving, documenting, teaching. But i get it: some people get tired, or they are beat down enough times that it's just not worth it for them to struggle anymore.
Fair-Morning-4182@reddit
For a lot of (most) people, this is a job, not a passion. What passion you do have gets beaten out of you. I accrue skills for money. OP says they have 30 years experience but have titles of “Lead Tech” - aka structurally irrelevant. They probably don’t get paid enough to care.
burundilapp@reddit
The quality of the systems we are being forced to use is worse than they’ve ever been and the complexity higher than ever. There are more systems as well.
I suspect they were against a move to cloud but not strategic enough to understand it’s largely out of the employers hands, the big players are forcing everyone into the cloud and subscription models and now they’ve got their sulk on. They might get over it.
spellboundedPOGO@reddit
I was also tasked with “figuring out intune” for my company as my first job out of college lol.
I’ve since left that job, but it was definitely a great stepping stone in my career. Your co workers are just old and don’t want to learn new things. Part of me doesn’t blame them - as it gives newer folks like us an opportunity to grow
mr_lab_rat@reddit
Sounds like burnout. Why don’t you ask them?
xpackardx@reddit
Respect your elders!
Chaucer85@reddit
You may not be able to keep a positive work environment if they're willfully adding negativity and sour attitudes.
As others have said, they're likely beyond burnt out and tired of trying to keep up. The odd part is definitely the passive aggressive attitude toward you. It might be there's missing elements to this you aren't aware of, like feedback or compliments from leadership about you that made them feel outdated.
You may think they don't feel threatened by you, but if you're delivering work they avoided for years? It shows they dropped the ball, and you picked it up.
There's nothing to feel bad about; it's great you've come so far. But if they can't celebrate your achievements and recede into a less crazy role, go part-time as a contractor, or just straight-up retire? That's they're problem.
It sounds like they might be losing some sharpness, and there's no shame in that. It's hard to keep up forever, though it's surprising they just didn't fall back on documentation. Either way, you don't need to protect them. If they can't admit they're shortcomings, it'll become evident in due time.
Be cordial and professional, report anything seriously out of line, and otherwise don't try to carry their load.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Aww, I hope they’re not getting stuff like that from the top. They really are a huge, deep part of the team, and I try to give them credit whenever possible. They’re out there doing the hard work while I tinker with policies and remediation scripts in my test lab, and without them, I never could have made it this far.
Any ideas how I can make them look better or build them up like they used to build me up? I don’t want to be patronizing, but they’re human, too.
2cats2hats@reddit
As someone else mentioned being tired of the churn.
Keep in mind the old guys started with computer science, not app support. They may see 'cloud things' as app centric and have no interest. They probably have seen enough hiccups and failures with cloud tech to realize they can't pinpoint the issue like they could have with on-prem.
I started IT before the acronym IT was an acronym...1989.
IT has changeed, a lot. IT has changed into more SaaS, cloud and corp mandated perpetual certificates.
...my .02 worth.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Computer science vs app support is a great way of putting it. I expected IT with to involve stuff like logic gates and electronics, but it’s more like playing a game with tools and vendors. I was disappointed in high school that I wasn’t going to understand networking at the bit level, but I got over it fast.
Dirk and Collin probably did understand things at nearly that level once (I’m pretty sure Collin can still write assembly), and now there’s so much complexity, they feel helpless.
SambalBij42@reddit
Think you're right...
IT has changed, too much in my opinion.
I started in IT a bit later than you, around 2000-ish... Back then we were indeed doing the computer science. We were finding out how stuff worked ourselves.
Since then acquired a lot of knowledge and a lot of experience. Most of which has now become useless...
I'm sick and tired of other people/companies telling me what to do and how to do it. As you say it's no longer possible to fix issues. When something went down, I used to grab a toolbox, drove to a datacenter, and beat the server back into submission, if I had to... I don't think Microsoft would let me in if I drove to the Azure datacenter here instead... :P
But nowadays, I feel totally out of control. Can't do anything myself anymore... Just have to rely on and trust companies that can't be trusted... Had a mail/calendar issue recently... I can't exactly dive into the log files of Exchange Online... And Microsoft support is utterly useless and incapable...
So now what... I'm 46 years old, which means I have 20-25 years to go until retirement... And really I don't see how... I have 25 years of IT experience that has become irrelevant and obsolete almost overnight. I have absolutely no desire to become a cloud "engineer"...
wrt-wtf-@reddit
Technology promises to make things easier… but the reality is that vendors make it more complex and tie the admins and users more and more into their eco-systems requiring new stuff and extra training - to do things we’ve been doing simpler and easier for years. Not a lot actually changes in the back ground as everything that happens is simply an iteration on the previous generation - sometimes stuff turns up in a different program, not just a different menu, because someone decided to make it that way.
It’s less of a churn thing and more of a “here we go with this BS again” and there are systems you just plain give up on and leave it to people who don’t know or appreciate the tail wagging the dog aspect of IT.
I’m a very harsh critic of lying to customers - that’s not on. Sounds like they were just cruising. This is very hard on morale.
Dangerous-Offer-6585@reddit
This sort of fatigue isn't limited to IT...
Hungry-King-1842@reddit
RonnieB47@reddit
Since they've been working in IT for 30-35 years they're nearing retirement and don't want to be bothered learning new stuff. It would probably be best if you discussed with your boss.
Odd-Sun7447@reddit
IT is a high burn out profession. At a certain point, a lot of those admins who get into tech because it's a job rather than a love for the tech itself burn out. This is especially true in environments where work/life balance isn't prioritized. This year is my 25th in IT, but as someone who loves working in Tech for the sake of it...I still look forward to getting up and going to work each day.
That said, my career has progressed over time through different areas of IT, I went from Help Desk, to MSP sysadmin work, to IT consulting, to in-house sysadmin work, and now I'm upskilling into DevOps. I do admit that once you get to senior level sysadmin work, you will start to burn out if you are always used as the company firefighter. Running from emergency to emergency caused by others' refusal to plan ahead gets old after a while.
For me, keeping my passion for the work has been tied to learning new things continually and continuing to find new things to do within Tech.
hurkwurk@reddit
document, document document, report to HR.
every shitty back biting comment.
every time they go behind your back.
every time they do weaponized incompetence.
if your shared management isnt taking action, take it directly to HR instead.
I have to deal with this same shit, and the only way to actually solve it is to make it managements problem. This is purely a personnel issue, and not an IT issue.
IJustLoggedInToSay-@reddit
Probably stop at "document, document, document." Being the first to take things to HR just flags you as a problem.
hurkwurk@reddit
I'll pit my 30 years against your pithy reply.
HR exists for limited reasons, and when your own management fails/refuses/wont do their jobs, thats why. its literally the only time to engage HR. outside of that, no one wants them around with good reason, its like throwing a grenade at everyone's feet. but when its a department of "3" and 2 out of the three are working their hardest against the third, its time to seek outside help. OP has responded already that their management is aware and working on it still, so there is no reason to engage HR yet... you skipped that part in your pithy reply.
Take it from someone who has lost literal YEARS of their life to shitty management and coworkers like YOU that just dont want to rock the boat. Fuck all of that. Protect yourself, your own mental health, and keep your workplace nice to work at and do not suffer those that stoop to bullshit tactics like weaponized incompetence as a method of avoiding work or passively protesting change.
Either have the balls to step the fuck up and have a meeting about a better way to get shit done, or shut the fuck up and follow along with those willing to do the work in the new direction, but the high school drama games of who can drag their feet and slow everything down the most is exactly the worst part of IT politics.
There is a huge difference between voicing your opinion and reservations properly and silently working against your coworkers in a negative fashion that ruins moral in a horrible way.
IJustLoggedInToSay-@reddit
Yes, from this reply I can tell that it was definitely your management and coworkers that were the problem, and you were the reasonable one.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Thankfully I don't think we're there yet. Our boss sees everything, and he takes on the hard conversations very well. He's explained why they can't have admin access to every system, why they have to follow policies they don't like, and he's sat with them for hours, patiently going over my documentation with them and standing up for me. I feel fully supported by him and our other coworkers, who can see Dirk being a jerk (rhyme NOT intended) and Collin feigning incompetence. I don't feel at all like they're threatening my job or my relationships (except with end users, lol).
At some point, this is going to come to a head when I go on a two-week vacation, but from other posts in this subreddit, I'm guessing that problem will fix itself. I've documented a lot (working on maybe 20%), done my best to communicate to the whole group, and now I just miss the camaraderie we used to have. I really don't want them to get in trouble, but I also can't work with them like this.
PhroznGaming@reddit
Found the nancy
brandon03333@reddit
Same boat here. They want to retire and just let them. Had sys admin above me and network guy teach me and they are just letting me do my thing migrating over to Intune and watching. Sounds like it is time to pass the torch and that is what they are doing.
Jimmynobhead@reddit
Older you get, the scarier change is. They're scared.
one_fifty_six@reddit
I feel like my situation is the complete opposite. Our service desk (who I used to manage) don't know how to use any of the old tools they had and used. Every time we roll something out - eg: Tanium, Delinea, taking away local admin rights. It's like every new tool is the new hammer. They refuse to understand we are building a tool kit where ever situation may require a new tool to use it. Instead all they think about it the last thing we deployed. But then they don't even really understand how that works. Like they don't want to be treated like idiots and do level 1 stuff. So then we give them rights to do more complicated tasks and they complain there isn't enough documentation or anyone teaching them how to do it. Do you want to solve problems like the rest of us and learn shit on the fly and use our brain box or do you want to transfer calls? Because you get paid too much to do the later.
PatReady@reddit
They want no parts of what you are doing. Notice they didn't set up unturned for 7 years? They trained you to do the work, and now you are trying to force it on them. Who got their boss involved?
sp1cynuggs@reddit
Reading these replies is just sad. “Yeah after working years I’m just over doing my job” you’d rather be rock in the road instead of moving to a role that enables more coasting? If you’re an admin, you’ll be shockingly asked to administer.
SpaceFactsAreCool@reddit
I really relate to your post. I have run into similar problems of getting people on my team to read documentation, do their jobs, and adapt to new tech in my job in higher education. My solution has been to admit to myself that the problem cannot be solved and either accept that or get a different job. I still put my best effort forward for things that matter, but I think there is a balance that can be found that includes a healthy amount of apathy. If the team members do not report to you as their manager, there isn't much that can be done. I have been a lot happier at work since I stopped trying to get others to change. Any departmental mindset change needs to come from management. Otherwise, it will not last in my experience.
Tx_Drewdad@reddit
They have successfully reproduced. Now they shall decline, and go into the East.
OneRFeris@reddit
You're in a tough situation and my heart goes out to you. To understand them better, try to imagine yourself in their shoes.
That doesn't excuse them blaming you, or lying about you. So I think you should stand up for yourself and not tolerate that kind of speech.
But everything else.... I think you leave it alone.
Sp33d0J03@reddit
This.
Pick your battles. Do not let them gobshite you.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
I don't really know about compensation. I know they were given a title change (Tech to Senior Tech) at the same time I and a few other coworkers were promoted, but I don't know if that was name-only or came with financial benefits. The job opportunities around here are not great, and they probably feel too comfortable and settled in to move on. Honestly, I think they (at least Collin) like getting to sit back and let the new guys handle most of it.
KickedAbyss@reddit
It's possible you have more time than they do.
It's also possible they hate the cloud.
Burnout is also a thing.
just_change_it@reddit
It's great to be young and full of energy.
Once you're in your 50s+ you probably won't be running around doing total transformation of the environment. I expect 30 YOE to be that age bracket.
They know how to handle a lot of things and won't make tons of mistakes, probably. Innovation though? if they were innovative and eager to learn they wouldn't be at a fucking school lol. You go there for an easy job that pays OK.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
You would think they wouldn't be making tons of mistakes, but that's part of what makes it so scary. I have remediation scripts in Intune to quietly clean up the stuff I know they're doing after the whole team agrees not to do that. They're suddenly forgetting how to look up Bitlocker keys and LAPS passwords in Active Directory, update drivers, troubleshoot network connectivity, and really simple stuff that hasn't changed a bit. For a while I was worried Collin might be having a health crisis, but they're both doing it at the same time and don't show any other signs of cognitive impairment.
just_change_it@reddit
Did they forget how to do it? or did someone step up and do it for them? The longer i've been in this industry the less i'm eager to jump into more because the responsibilities increase but the pay stays the same. unless I leave. If someone more junior can do it, why should I step up? What's the benefit to me? I'm not saying this is fair or nice to you, i'm just objectively pointing it out.
Don't get me wrong, i'm sure the changes you've made should be 101 to someone who has been learning the newer (relatively speaking) implementations. These guys have been in the same place relatively forever in terms of technology lifespans.
That being said in the case of your workplace, once they go out to seek a replacement after you leave (or one of the other guys gets canned) the replacement's motivation, competence, attention to detail and work ethic is probably not going to be anywhere near yours. Odds are replacements will show up, do what the boss asks that has consequences if not done, and then take their paycheck and go home for a few years until fired or they get bored. This has been what i've seen in the lion's share of workers in white collar environments across departments, not just IT.
If you go out and look for someone just like you, with a school system's pay which is typically less than market rates you probably won't find someone else like you. They might promise the moon and sound very energetic and enthusiastic, but you won't know until 90-180 days in if they are truly going to step up and do well. Most of the time they just suck. If they are at your current level of experience they're probably going to want way more money than they can afford.
Anyway, This is an opportunity on a silver platter for you in your current place in your career it sounds like. Keep grinding and learning because you can go anywhere else and probably make a boatload of money. Once you have a 3+ years of it, have implemented all this stuff and can talk about it then it never goes away from being useful in future job interviews.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
It goes a lot further than them not learning new things. I'm talking about the old things they've been doing in Active Directory for 15+ years or the policies we've implemented in the past 5. We don't really have junior people to do their specific job, so it's not like they can let anyone else pick it up. I take tickets when they're related to systemic issues, when I think I have a quick remote fix, when they're out of the office, or when it seems like they're getting overwhelmed, but most of the tickets fall on them naturally, and most of them are the same old tickets we get all the time.
I agree that this is a silver platter opportunity for me. I really lucked out getting this as an entry job. I think that my people skills are going to be the biggest block in my future career growth, so I'd like to see this tension between Dirk and Collin and myself as an opportunity to get better at the people side of things.
UninvestedCuriosity@reddit
Has anyone offered these guys time to learn anything new or talked to them about what they might need to be on task?
Being on several daily projects people have lost excitement for because things have become normalized doesn't leave a lot of room.
This sounds like a resource problem that is coming out in unskilled ways.
Quirky_Oil215@reddit
Dude you're a great apprentice you learned and grew. the grey beards are tired of dealing with anything that desktop user related. So u own that solution and don't need them. I am nearly a grey beard I love teaching the desktop/ user guys but once that is handed over I don't want that headache again. Its like I have bigger and more interesting problems to solve that I enjoy doing whilst the desktop stuff is now a chore. Yup that do that stuff in my sleep BUT I don't want to touch that, and I don't care how it works.
Frosty-Magazine-917@reddit
Hello Op,
Is it possible you are stepping on their toes a little and getting onboard with things they had collectively used their power to shut down in the past? Their subtle hints about not wanting to certain things might have been for good reasons. You bringing in MDM and all that broadens their responsibilities so they are trying to make it clear, hey you wanted this so bad, fix it.
Going forward, run things by them in a what do they think kind of way? Maybe very obviously choose to go along with some of their stuff so they start to feel like you are part of the team. Invite them for a beer or bring tacos in for lunch or something. What I am reading from your post is less about technical and more about they were at a place they liked and this new person comes in who starts upsetting the order of things. Now if you don't personally care about them or if they don't stop being rude even when you try, give them back a little of what they give you. Show them you aren't one to be pushed around through passive aggressive crap either.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Management here has been pushing for MDM for a long time, given that we have a new, remote campus and more remote/WFH workers than ever, and VPN for everyone all the time just wasn't cutting it. I felt like I picked up the scraps that they'd discarded and was doing the stuff they didn't want to.
It's entirely possible they still feel like I'm stepping on their toes. I've talked to Collin about that specifically, since he was my mentor here for a while, and in person, he says he appreciates me taking on more of the workload and he's happy for me to learn and figure things out. I don't think Dirk feels the same, but I can't talk to him as frankly.
I've tried running things by them, but it's like we're in different worlds. For example, I made a flow chart explaining how a process works for internal documentation, and asked Collin to see if it could be improved for readability. He said it would make more sense if it worked differently, then rearranged it to show a process that literally doesn't exist. We spent all afternoon going back and forth on whether the flowchart should document reality or a more convenient fiction.
I'm cool with the tacos for lunch idea, though :)
Frosty-Magazine-917@reddit
Sounds like you are trying Op. Its unfortunate when tech people get grumpy to their colleagues, but it happens and you can only try so much. Have been at places where I made lots of friends, and others where after a while the people were closer to what you seem to be experiencing.
Bufjord@reddit
That's wild. Sadly, not too surprising. I really can't speak as to why it happens. But, some people just hit a wall and refuse to figure a way around it. No more learning. New tech turns into black magic and unclean. Good on you to lock down your documentation and stand back from the situation. If it's gotten to the point as you describe, this is gonna turn into one of those AITA threads pretty soon. Be happy that you were able to master your craft and move forward. It is sad to see such things occur with a mentor.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Haha, I ask another trusted coworker "AITA?" all the time in real life. I'm lucky to work with a lot of sane people who can see exactly what's going on and help me stay cool.
BenjiTheSausage@reddit
I'm much newer than you but I've got my own Dirk in our team, just coasting along now, he's got great specialist knowledge about some systems but when it comes to newer stuff, I probably have the edge, I'm hoping I don't become jaded like a lot of the people here seem to be.
Keep up the good work and just focus on your work.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
Newer than me? Wow, welcome to IT!
Good luck with your own Dirk. He can be a little prickly :)
Otto-Korrect@reddit
I feel like you are describing me. I've just seen it all too many times. The buzzword product that will vanish by next year, the long pointless meetings, management making decisions about things the don't understand.
It feels kind of pointless to put energy into it anymore. We are constantly rolling out upgrades that aren't any better than the product they are replacing, except now they are cloud and subscription based with Machiavellian licensing schemes.
The 20 times learning a new language, or new protocols, or attending 3 day conferences, was fun, but now it just drains me.
Then-Independence730@reddit
Microsoft, Google, Intel, AMD, Dell, HP and Lenovo all ship crap services and hardware since the COVID era. It’s either filled with AI slop or just simply unstable software. Hardware wise it’s a lot of e-waste now a days, hardware that can barely run Windows 11. Apple is maybe the only vendor that ship somewhat tested software and hardware, but even they are starting to slip. Cloud outages are frequent, or they are just painfully slow 99% of the time. I think it all comes down to lack of competition. Since 2020, IT has regressed as a whole IMO and I can understand your colleagues who stopped giving a f anymore TBH.
IndianaNetworkAdmin@reddit
Part of it is that things need to be silo'd simply for sanity. If they've been there that long, they built those systems from the ground up with whatever duct tape and bubblegum budget they were given, and had to know everything.
From the sounds of it, you have a complex environment that's only becoming more complex. Instead of ensuring everyone knows everything, you should focus on documentation.
Don't worry about them not knowing things off the top of their head. That expectation from you and end users is probably part of their frustration and overall grumpiness. Document the news systems as much as you can - And work to document everything they've shown you as well.
Then, instead of learning new systems, they just need to learn whatever documentation solution you put together. As new components are added, as long as everyone documents their contributions, you'll be in a good place without forcing everyone to know everything.
A lot of smaller IT departments implode as they expand because they don't do this, and continue operating on the "All IT = All IT Employees" mantra. IMO, as you expand you should aim to have 1x subject matter expert, 1x cross-trained semi-expert person, and documentation for every major component. The only things everyone should know are the common items like onboarding and offboarding users, resetting passwords - The quick tickets that come in bulk for most places.
ludlology@reddit
Like you said they’ve been doing this for 30-35 years, they’re tired man
Cryptic1911@reddit
Give it another 20 years and you'll be there.. I've been working in IT 26 years as of this past Friday and had 3-4 years of geeking out at home before that, so let's call it 30 years. IT is one of those things that's cool and new as a hobby and you get all into it, you live and breathe it, then you get a job doing it. That's fine for a while, but nowadays the cycle of never ending bullshit, constantly changing industry, security nightmares, constant deadlines, management and users just grates on you and zaps the life out of you.
I've gotten to the point where I've been in a couple training sessions and noticed that the fire to learn just ain't there like it used to be and it makes it really hard to retain things. As a hobby, I was always super curious about cool new things and learning how they worked. Now, I really don't care if it's not directly affecting something that I'm responsible for. It's just gonna be one more pile of bullshit that's going to make my job more difficult and probably get replaced in 6 months time anyways.
LeadershipSweet8883@reddit
They've gone out to pasture. They will be retiring soon and they can't be fired. There's no incentive for them to learn a new tool and they are shifting blame to get out of doing work. Don't bother wasting time and effort on them. Let them fail if they refuse to learn. Just document the training sessions provided for each tool and then shrug your shoulders and tell management they were trained on it but didn't retain it.
It's time you forget about the past and focus on the future... who is the young tech you are training up right now to learn what you know, innovate and eventually exceed your abilities?
If your job description doesn't match your duties then seek a promotion or move to another job that pays more.
_Ice_Bear@reddit
They absolutely are threatened by you, especially because you're a woman in IT. They used to be the experts as far as anyone knew, and now you have become the expert and they don't get the blind reverence they used to get for being mediocre. That's why they are badmouthing you to clients. If I were you I'd try to puff them up a bit if you can do it sincerely, compliment what you can. Yeah it doesn't make sense but it will help you get along.
Second, they must be getting near retirement age. Not sure where you live, but where I live, people have had to delay retirement due to rising costs. So that may make them grumpy.
Third, also about being near retirement... they just may be tired of learning, or may be hoping to coast to that retirement that might be getting further away.
If there's anything I wish I'd known when I was younger, it's that you need to pay attention to the social environment at a job too. Especially when it comes to your managers. Hard work just gets you more work, you need to make sure the right people know how hard you're working. You need to also help your coworkers save face though or they may sabotage you.
I wish we worked in a world where hard work was everything. As a woman in IT you should seriously consider doing consulting and running your own business so you don't have to deal with the BS. I wish you the best of luck.
Spare_Pin305@reddit
I am three years in and exhausted.
Zenkin@reddit
As far as I can tell, you're just outpacing them. Drastically. The fact that you're doing back-end work while they're customer facing is a blaring alarm.
And this is perfectly naturally, despite the stark differences in years worked. I was leading people 20 years my senior when I had 5 years of work experience. It freaked me out, too, but that's just how it goes sometimes. There's a saying something like "They don't have 10 years of experience, they have 1 year of experience 10 times over."
doglar_666@reddit
Going purely on your one-sided assessment, my guess is that they avoided Intune for a reason. If I were nearing the tail end of your career, and a young technician brought in automation and new tech, I might worry about job security, like I am being automated out of ny role, and feel less enthusiastic about that technician. It's not reasonable, fair, nor absolves poor behaviour, but I believe it's quite a common reaction. It could also be political if they feel you've taken over something they saw as their domain, such as admin restrictions where previously there were none.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
There was a lab admin before me (and before the last two people in my position) who went on to be our global sysadmin and moved up out of a client-facing role. He implemented the principle of least privilege and took away everything except what techs needed to do their jobs, so I just copied the permissions he used in Active Directory over to Intune, with the full support of management. They can request more permissions if they find a legitimate need (I do it all the time for Entra stuff outside Intune, and get what I ask for, no problem), so it's not like I'm the one locking them out.
As for avoiding Intune for a reason, that's totally legit. I feel like Intune, as sucky as it is, has improved a lot in just the past few years, and I also was really hesitant to get on board.
Brett707@reddit
It gets old hearing the same old shit from the same idiots day in and day out. Argue something in IT is always broken. Why do we even pay you people. Then when you have everything running smooth. Argue All them IT guys ever do is sit in their office not doing a damn thing. Why do we even need them.
I work in a smaller College and some of the professors are exhausting. We just did a migration from Google Workspace to Microsoft 365. I get emails like This one “I cannot share documents outside of domain.com this is unacceptable and you need to FIX THIS ASAP. I cannot do my job if I cannot send documents to my volunteers. When all the dude had to do was attach the document to an email and send it off. But one change and we forget everything we ever learned.
TheITMan19@reddit
I’m just here for three reasons. 1. I need a job 2. I enjoy the job 3. The job pays well
Juls_Santana@reddit
Two words: Aye. Eye.
MyPhotographyReddit@reddit
Because they want to manage people not systems.
etzel1200@reddit
Sounds like burnout and coasting on old knowledge, seen it many times.
Crotean@reddit
Are you being paid for all this extra work? Could be they are done trying to go above and beyond because the company doesn't pay enough to justify it or reward them in the past when they did.
TrueMythos@reddit (OP)
We have entirely different roles, so none of us are doing extra work. My job is to manage our systems on the backend, while they do most of the routine, customer-facing work (data transfers, onboarding/offboarding, Tier II troubleshooting). They both seem satisfied to keep doing that, as I basically got the tasks that they didn't want. We've all had small pay raises in the past two years, and we all get praise from management on the different things we do well.
WhitePower252@reddit
One of the cons of this job is that you constantly have to learn new things. Some people like to learn and adapt to that, others want to just come to work and go home and don't really care as long as their skill set keeps them treading water.