The big beautiful bill has been passed…
Posted by Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 236 comments
What the hell do we do now? Only three republicans voted no. A sad moment for u.s history, all hipocrits I suppose.
Cannoli72@reddit
republicans just committed career suicide. Democrats will get power back shortly
BenAfleckIsAnOkActor@reddit
This bill gives trump the power to cancel elections.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
What is wrong with Reddit bro
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
Sadly, yes
WhoDey918@reddit
Republicans care about limiting the size of the federal government when they aren’t in power. When they are in power, they care about increasing the size of the federal government.
ShowBobsPlzz@reddit
Small government for stuff they dont like
Saephon@reddit
And sometimes it's big government for stuff they don't like.
Ex: abortion, LGBT rights, commandeering law enforcement in blue states
AM-64@reddit
I mean abortion is one I understand because Louis C.K. described it the best, either you feel it's not really any different from something like taking a shit or you think it's murder.
SweetLiber-Tea@reddit
The vast, vast majority of people on the pro-choice side would say it’s obviously a much larger and more impactful decision than “taking a shit.”
This is a good example of why we shouldn’t take our philosophical perspectives from pervert comedians.
JBCTech7@reddit
point is there's no compromise. If one believes its murder, there's no happy middle ground.
Agree with you on the pervert comedians, though .
SpareSimian@reddit
Indeed. The question turns on what you consider to be a person. The same issue with animal rights and when an AI becomes a person.
When the space aliens show up, how would we argue against "To Serve Man"? Their cookbook.
JBCTech7@reddit
with the unmitigated horrific unprecedented genocide our whole global species is committing against the unborn right now, we would not have a leg to strand on in that argument.
legend_of_wiker@reddit
You miss the point. He acknowledged that pro life very clearly view it as an impactful murder.
But then, to a good chunk of the pro choice it is more akin to taking a shit; it's not pretty but it's something you do sometimes.
The point is that some people view it more as a casual event, while others lament it as an inhumane act. There's not really a reconciliation between those two views.
socatoa@reddit
Louis wasn’t taking a philosophical stance, he was making social commentary…. Which is absolutely the domain of comedy. Obviously it’s not as mundane as taking a shit.
SweetLiber-Tea@reddit
You took his social commentary then formulated a philosophical perspective out of it. Or at least presented that as the case in your previous comment.
If your position is more nuanced than that nonsense, you’ll probably get more traction by elaborating on it.
halfar@reddit
you guys are really naive.
republicans want the government to be just as powerful as they can make it, except they want all of that power concentrated into fewer and fewer people. not small government, but less people in government.
bravehotelfoxtrot@reddit
Think about it: why would Republicans ever truly want to limit the size of the federal government? The idea seems blatantly nonsensical on its face. I think it’s far more likely that they simply use “we want smaller government” to garner political support.
Speaking of political support—
If Republicans were always ‘in power’ then their political support would likely dry up; “the other party are/will be a disaster” is one of their biggest selling points on a consistent basis. This is true in reverse for Democrats.
The federal government, by its own nature, will always be a parasite that drains resources and makes life worse for Americans. Without the one party to absorb blame, the other party and/or the organization as a whole will be much more easily rejected by a meaningful number of people.
burgerking726@reddit
The only possible end to this that I see would be if term limits were ever enacted for congress
TellThemISaidHi@reddit
Term limits are unconstitutional.
The 16th and 17th amendments, along with the Congressional apportionment and letting everyone vote, broke the idea of a limited government. Once the people got the opportunity to vote for distribution of largesse to themselves, it began the end.
SpareSimian@reddit
Check out https://30000.org
burgerking726@reddit
As of right now, correct. However, this is a movement to use Article V of the Constitution, which allows 34 states at convention (or both chambers of Congress, which is never going to happen) to propose constitutional amendments. 38 states must ratify the proposal in order for it to be enshrined as law, but it's our best shot.
JimmieJohnson_48@reddit
I volunteer with this movement! Term limits are one of the top things to get done imo cut off the gravy train for career politicians.
SpareSimian@reddit
What about single party cities like NYC and SF? It's interesting to watch the urban commies argue. And the stealth Republicans forced to run as Democrats.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
Exactly, I should’ve expected that when trump was voted into power.
claybine@reddit
Couldn't have voted for the gay guy, could any of you?
MattytheWireGuy@reddit
you mean the commie that got nominated by some bullshit political games? Not this time. First time I havent voted a full libertarian ticket in my life.
alternativeRothbard@reddit
You know how many times you voted for the LP.
SpareSimian@reddit
Since 1984. I voted for Anderson in 1980 only because I hadn't yet been exposed to libertarian philosophy.
claybine@reddit
I bet you can't even define communism, let alone justify in your own words how Chase is one. That's probably the dumbest criticism of him I've ever seen.
No-Customer7572@reddit
You mean Obama? He wasn’t that bad.
JimmyDeanKNVB@reddit
I did. But then again, I’m actually a Libertarian.
kaluh_glarski@reddit
This
claybine@reddit
I'm responding to the culturally outdated paleolibertarian who thinks gay people are icky and lick the boots of fascist paleoconservatives.
RedLineFinalWarning@reddit
If you go through with an unbiased eye, democrats have been better for the economy than republicans by BIG margins.
GDP Growth: Since WWII, Democrats have outperformed Republicans on the economy. GDP growth averages 4.23% under Dems vs. 2.36% under GOP. Job creation? 1.7% yearly for Dems, 1.0% for Republicans. Also, 9 of the last 10 recessions started under Republican presidents.
Job Creation: From 1989 to 2024, the U.S. economy added approximately 51 million jobs. Of these, about 50 million jobs were created under Democratic presidents, while Republican presidents oversaw the creation of approximately 1 million jobs, resulting in a difference of roughly 49 million more jobs under Democratic leadership during these years.
Deficit: Over the last 10 presidencies, the democrats have REDUCED the deficit by $1.3 trillion while the republicans have INCREASED the deficit by over $5.7 trillion.
RedLineFinalWarning@reddit
If you actually go thru with an unbiased eye, as much as their policies are hated by libertarians - the democrats have generally presided over less spending, more balanced budgets, and less deficit creation.
MazlowFear@reddit
Specifically the military, surveillance and police state. Branches of government like healthcare, education, and food programs that provide no real benefit to the government’s ability to directly control the lives of citizens…probably since these kinds of cuts cause the kinds of social unrest that allows them to send in the police and military to further erode our protections from the government capitalist police state they want to institute.
There are no real Republicans anymore.
long_live_king_melon@reddit
Meanwhile, the size of government continues to increase across the partisan eras
No-Customer7572@reddit
Can’t blame them, democrats would have spent too.
WhoDey918@reddit
Yes I can blame them for it. Democrats also doing it would be worthy of blame.
No-Customer7572@reddit
But they did do it. With the inflation reduction act, The infrastructure bill, and the American rescue act. But those were different I guess.
WhoDey918@reddit
Right and those are worthy of blame too. It’s not difficult. Today it’s Republicans doing it so they are getting the blame.
No-Customer7572@reddit
But have a feeling you weren’t so critical when it was the democrats doing it.
WhoDey918@reddit
Yes I’m very critical of the Democrats. I can’t stand the Democratic Party.
No-Customer7572@reddit
Democrats are thick on redit. I like the lower taxes on social security and the no taxes on tips. But the bill is too big as usual.
jo3roe0905@reddit
Proof that both parties are the same.
ConsiderationOk7699@reddit
Well said
ScientificBeastMode@reddit
They want to limit the government’s ability to keep the oligarchs in check. That’s the only form of “limited government” they have ever supported. Even during the Reagan era, their main goal was supporting the interest of the rapidly globalizing megacorps, and they disguised it as fiscal responsibility. Megacorps don’t actually care how much the government spends as long as they get most of the windfall from that expenditure.
It’s easy to see that there are more types of political power than official government institutions. Power is mostly about who has all the money these days.
Think about this. Wall Street fucking LOVES inflation. Just look at stock prices when the Fed says anything remotely close to a passing thought of lowering rates. They love low interest rates and the ballooning of the monetary supply. Why? Because low interest rates mostly benefit the rich. They have all the access to ultra-cheap credit. They use all that credit buy up all the cheap assets, and they sell those assets to the plebs and make tons of money. Then they use that money to make sure each administration does the exact same playbook over and over, regardless of party lines.
lordhoser@reddit
Or maybe it's the first bill of the first year of the second term. You won't get everything you want but hopefully it has more good than bad. I'd hope next year is less government and more states rights but I won't cry about it being not libertarian enough especially since it's not a libertarian president
WhoDey918@reddit
So we can only criticize government when it’s libertarians?
lordhoser@reddit
No we criticize for sure. But we understand that Trump is not the libertarian president we voted for. Hopefully the next one will inherit a better country and we can then get less federal overreach
kaluh_glarski@reddit
When was he anywhere close to acting like a libertarian?
macaddictr@reddit
Most republicans are not actually conservatives. They are Christian nationalist.
LostInMyADD@reddit
Replace "republicans" with "Political Parties"
rickyramrod@reddit
I have always said both parties exist to take peoples’ rights away, they just disagree on the rights. The same can be said for their penchant for printing non-existent money.
JuniusPhilaenus@reddit
it's a big club and we ain't in it
republicans and democrats will continue to bankrupt us forever
Hot_Most5332@reddit
Honestly it’s simpler than that. They want the pork.
Hot_Most5332@reddit
Honestly it’s simpler than that. They want the pork.
Dannyboy1024@reddit
Same as we've been doing - vote for and support actual Libertarians, or at the very least anti-maga republicans in the primaries. Hell even some Democrats are better than these MAGA Republicans at this point when it comes to smaller federal government topics.
Sir_Incognito@reddit
I'm not trying to start an argument, but can you show me whose democratic policies are better than MAGA when it comes to smaller government?
I'm genuinely curious because I have not seen it.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
Agreed
littlezawa@reddit
You're either new to politics or have the memory of a goldfish if you think republicans care about lowering spending or having a smaller government.
PM_ME_DNA@reddit
We hope for libertarians and we get social democrats
Echo7690@reddit
This is why I realized I’m a libertarian because the Republicans claim to be the party of small government and fiscal responsibility yet they pass the largest increase to the deficit
Plenty_Trust_2491@reddit
The Republican Party has never cared about smaller government.
mitch8017@reddit
The concept of fiscal conservatism and small government haven’t been relevant to the GOP in at least 30 years. I could never argue that GWB or Trump tried to cut spending and reduce government. Same goes for Republicans in Congress. It’s an old facade. People really need to start watching what people do, not what they say.
jawknee530i@reddit
How many of the members of this sub vote republican? How many of you are the dumbest mother fuckers on the planet?
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
Would you rather vote democrat? Or do you vote libertarian
StoicFable@reddit
Your entire discussion in this thread and post history screams that you are a 20 year old kid who read dont tread on me and didnt actually bother reading into what libertarianism actually is.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
I read the Mises institute every day, finished Anarchy State and Utopia, and am waiting for democracy the god that failed to arrive
GoldenPyro1776@reddit
Republicans have never reduced the size of government
winstonsmithsmom@reddit
They only reduce the size of government regulations that provide the measliest protections for workers and basically any check on the rapidly expanding wealth gap.
KiraJosuke@reddit
They actually were blatantly lying when they claimed it reduced the deficit on the floor. They know their supporters are idiots.
prestigiousIntellect@reddit
Even if the 1.6 trillion in spending cuts is true it’s over the span of 10 years. The GOP keeps neglecting to add that caveat in there when touting the spending cuts. That’s roughly 160 billion a year which is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. The notion that this bill has massive spending cuts is laughable.
KiraJosuke@reddit
ICE is now funded more heavily than every branch of the military and Trump just said they might look into deporting legal citizens. Small government.
heyboman@reddit
From the report I read, it said the ICE budget goes from $10 billion annually to between $30 - $35 billion per year through 2029. That's a ton for a law enforcement agency, but still nowhere near one of the branches of the military.
prestigiousIntellect@reddit
Yeah not great. Also they removed one of the best parts of the bill which removed suppressors and short barreled rifles from the NFA. Very disappointing.
KiraJosuke@reddit
That makes zero sense considering they literally didnt need any concessions to dems to pass this thing.
prestigiousIntellect@reddit
Unfortunately the senate parliamentarian took it out of the bill. However, you can ignore the parliamentarian and or vote on whether or not to honor the parliamentarian's decision with only a simple majority needed. So, they quite literally could add it back into the bill very easily but they will not. Hopefully someone in the House will try to add it back in.
strawhatguy@reddit
I mean, same goes for Democrats. Except they actually achieve their destructive agendas sometimes, for their dumb supporters.
KiraJosuke@reddit
Dems do not run on trimming the deficit
datafromravens@reddit
to be fair, the tariffs do completely offset the increase in revenue from tax cuts and then some
ExemplaryTrout@reddit
Who pays the tariffs...
datafromravens@reddit
not relevant to current topic
strawhatguy@reddit
Yes, true, I meant the supporters are idiots part. Rent control; rent goes up, etc etc.
Zillaracing@reddit
The irony is Republicans campaign on small government, Dems don't.
strawhatguy@reddit
Yeah it’s hard to say which is worse: honestly saying here’s how we destroy the economy, and doing it. Or dishonestly saying we’ll fix it, then not.
JustHewIt@reddit
If you were trying to have a conversation about democrat policies while they were in power and actively hurting the country, and someone came in and said "well republicans are bad too!!!!!!" you'd think that was an annoying ridiculous waste of time comment.
It goes both ways.
strawhatguy@reddit
Yes, I was referring to the supporters were idiots part, and OP’s question of what to do now. Vote third party or not vote, ultimately. Keep pushing the two to embrace some cuts.
If you had a gun to my head, I’d still edge to republicans, as the agencies are heavily D staffed.
WaltKerman@reddit
Since the first GOP president actually. The democrats tried to HALF the federal government but the GOP stopped it!
/s
OkTransportation568@reddit
And they’re right.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
That is what most claim to do, most good republicans are just closeted Libertarians
DrSquid@reddit
I think it's the opposite. Any politician who claims they want a smaller government is lying. A lot of these so called 'libertarian' leaning politicians are just Republicans who don't care that you smoke pot while taking away other Liberty's. They just want your vote but you see their allegiance on their voting records.
JuniusPhilaenus@reddit
except Thomas Massie of course
BobaFettishx82@reddit
He’s the only one worth anything. The worst part is that his compatriot Justin Amash jumped ship to come to the Libertarian Party and they “no true Scotsman’d” his ass out.
WaltKerman@reddit
This actually does reduce the size of government, but taxes even more so debt still increases.
But never is no longer true. Just pointing that out so you can make your post a bit more accurate. I think that's what you meant anyway.
cluckodoom@reddit
*Government has never reduced the size of government
FatBlueLines@reddit
Did the house pass it?
Kakaduzebra86@reddit
Suck shit America you shitty ass country
soapy5@reddit
https://imgur.com/VZE7JFg
rogue780@reddit
Didn't it fail to get it off committee in the house?
Fallingvines@reddit
Republicans are corporatists and have been for a long time now. Entryism and fifth columning was never gonna be a winning strategy.
herefortheover@reddit
I say these things on non Libertarian Subs and get banned from this sub. It's good to see some actual Libertarian content on here.
Moist-eggplant1994@reddit
I just wanted no tax on tips and overtime. Can we at least be happy about that? Definitely would cut spending but I don't decide that. Is anyone excited about the tips and ot?
mrbrown1980@reddit
I heard that it’s “no tax on specifically cash tips only”. I never got around to investigating further but something to be aware of.
Moist-eggplant1994@reddit
That sounds dumb because a lot of them don't claim cash. If that is the case please lmk.
mrbrown1980@reddit
I looked it up. They are still debating about whether “cash tips” will include credit and debit cards as it does currently, according to Google.
Wyliie@reddit
i frequently work ot and for tips so i am. but i understand the outrage over the spending
blaznbordr14@reddit
Did anyone actually think a bill wouldn’t pass? If you did, I am sorry. There is no stopping this train, sadly
Sublimesmile@reddit
Betrayal? This was very clearly the goal from the start.
stjhnstv@reddit
Wait… does this mean the NFA is defunct? That’d be a win. Not worth it, but a win…
Xumayar@reddit
They've reduced the tax on suppressors to $0 but they're still registered.
stjhnstv@reddit
If I’m not mistaken, the only reason the NFA has held up in the SCOTUS is because it’s a tax… so if the tax is $0 then there’s no tax which makes the whole act unconstitutional because now it’s just an infringement?
CoolTomatoh@reddit
And they call us the commies!
RichM5@reddit
R’s and D’s are just a different side of the same coin. They just get corrupted by different people and spend our money on different shit. And none are serious about governing in a responsible manner.
Signal-Egg-239@reddit
Passing this bill solidified the death of the GOP. We’re headed towards a one-party country and the democrats know it.
I fully expect the party of “government-run grocery stores” to provide the BEST possible options to the American people.
notahippogriff@reddit
You keep calling your representatives.
CoercionIsCringe@reddit
Are you still in your young stages of becoming Libertarian? Literally anyone who says republicans want to cut spending is insane. It’s a campaign talking point, but when push comes to shove, they’ll always fall in line and increase spending.
WaltKerman@reddit
They have cut spending here, but cut taxes even more.
There's a difference here in that spending is being reduced but deficit is not being reduced.
CoercionIsCringe@reddit
Did they cut spending though? Really?
Sure they cut Medicaid, SNAP, green energy credits, etc., but they also increased homeland security and the DoDs budget well over a trillion dollars between the two.
They didn’t cut shit.
EvaLichnaga@reddit
He
WaltKerman@reddit
Slightly, yes they did.
CO_Surfer@reddit
You sound like a Republican that just started to pay attention. Not trying to be an ass, either. This is entirely predictable and was, in fact, predicted by many.
One could argue that Trump is better than Kamala, and I could similarly argue that vomit Is better than diarrhea. Regardless, most of the arguments are a stretch, and both subjects have the potential to destroy you if left unchecked.
ZEALOUS_RHINO@reddit
At the end of the day, we are all ideological libertarians here and sickened by both parties, but our choices were Trump or Kamala. Would you rather take a bullet in your left arm or right arm?
DR_MEPHESTO4ASSES@reddit
This is just me, but I've found a lot of "paleo libertarians" (OPs flair) are Republicans who don't want to be Republicans, but still vote Republican.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
I wouldn’t vote republican, but I would consider myself a conservative minarchist, hence the libertarian
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
Why was this downvoted?
FlimsyIndependent752@reddit
Because if that really is your political leaning how the hell did you end up voting for Trump? It’s actually puzzling.
flimpiddle@reddit
I don't get the impression that OP voted for Trump
jdd32@reddit
Referring to Vance in the post makes me think OP probably did.
flimpiddle@reddit
I see it now
PuttPutt7@reddit
Same. And also have no idea why people downvoting you. Lol...
Actually, scratch that. It's reddit.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
I dissagree, considering is was 50-51, there was stood chance it would die
CO_Surfer@reddit
What do you disagree with? I’ma bit confused here
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
That this was totally predictable, but I do agree for the most part
MaksimDubov@reddit
I feel like diarrhea is better than vomit though, personally.
BobaFettishx82@reddit
If you believe that Republicans believe in reducing the size and spending of government, you’re dumber than you sound and that’s saying something.
Picture-Mobile@reddit
The Republican Party has been compromised. Bought and paid for.
bownt1@reddit
BOTH PARTIES ARE !
Picture-Mobile@reddit
Agreed
obiwantkobe@reddit
I heard that the Medicaid cuts were actually requiring people to work 80 hours a month to maintain their state insurance. Is this correct?
mrbrown1980@reddit
What does “paleo in power” mean?
HadynGabriel@reddit
This is my shocked face.
Wow a government major party voted to increase spending.
restonex@reddit
Good.
Billybob_Bojangles2@reddit
Accelerate the collapse, get it over with.
Entropy_Pyre@reddit
I’m starting to wonder if that’s almost the point. I knew Vance was an accelerationist, but I didn’t expect him to commit kamikaze in the process. Personal prediction: The camps won’t be just for migrants for long.
ExemplaryTrout@reddit
Funny you say that because Trump just today started saying we need to deport our own citizens who are "bad"
Entropy_Pyre@reddit
Yeeaah...
The Border Security Expo in April had multiple companies attending for contracts. One of them was a company called Matthews Environmental Solutions, which advertises "cremation equipment" and "waste to energy conversion".
I was hoping I was overreacting. But we've crossed so many other thresholds so quickly.
Billybob_Bojangles2@reddit
Then we boogie brother
EternalSabbatical@reddit
Separate_Ad_5662@reddit
It's sad that, against all evidence, people still think the government can be saved.
eastcoasternj@reddit
Why would any true libertarian have ever believed in any republican over the last decade? They exist to enrich trump and a small circle of maralago weirdos who benefit from this abomination of a bill.
pimpinaintez18@reddit
A quick Google search shows that the last Republican president to lower the national debt was Eisenhower over 60 years ago.
Notlinked2me@reddit
Interesting if I remember correctly he was the last moderate Republican before the shift to the inverse Robinhood of a party they have now.
redpandaeater@reddit
Decade? I left during Bush and the deficits have only gotten worse since.
Steelergate@reddit
Republicans borrow and spend. Democrats tax and spend
krion1x@reddit
This subreddit is a strange phenomenon.
BBB reduces spending by $1.2T and decreases revenues by $4.1T leading to an additional $2.9T in deficit. Milton Friedman himself is on record saying you have to cut govt’s size in two steps: first cut taxes to survive the political cycle and then cut spending. Mike Johnson has said this is the first step.
According to the mantra of libertarianism’s own saints (Hayek, Friedman), this is textbook reduction of the size of government. Are we misreading media or is media misconstruing the facts?
zenithconquerer@reddit
No, it goes back to the House. There are many in the House that oppose the Senate's revisions.
TheM0nkB0ughtLunch@reddit
Not sure why I had to go this low to find this. There is still hope, at least hope of a slimming down.
StoicFable@reddit
People don't understands how government works.
thebennubird@reddit
So many comments and not a single one about Medicare cuts or even the tangible way this will affect people’s lives other than the theory of statecraft, kinda weird
AlxCds@reddit
Continue buying gold, silver, and bitcoin.
mediocretes@reddit
Well, at least I can expense payroll again. In your face, Trump.
bl0rq@reddit
The tree of liberty is thirsty
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
✊
syphilisticcontinuum@reddit
At least consider the Convention of States before you go spilling blood guys.
Learn about the arguments for and against it, the simulations, the 34 Ready framework, etc.
PerfectAverage@reddit
I cannot remember a single point in my entire lifetime when we had a party of limited government or responsible spending in power.
EmperorAlgo@reddit
Pray that the next president is slightly better. Trump has never decreased the deficit. Why start now?
https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/FRED-FYFSGDA188S/?timeframe=ALL
Beardman1967@reddit
Highly doubtful. Depends on lots of factors but we can assume that JD Vance will be the republican nominee and does it really matter who the democratic candidate is? We need to get Libertarian candidates in the debates and maybe they can at least show people that they’re other choices . They really need to get somebody that has some name recognition and can get a decent size following. It’s been since Ross Perot that there was even a viable 3rd candidate running for president.
Absocold@reddit
I'm confused that people seem surprised. Trump had always done what's best for trump and his cronies. He doesn't care about the average joe and believes the average joe should pay up to keep him and his friends wealthy. All of his economic policies he's ever actually tried to push through have done this. Why are you surprised?
Hrimnir@reddit
The republican party has never in history decreased government spending. The idea that they are the "fiscal responsibility" party has been an absolute laughable joke for the past 30 years and the 30 years prior to that it was still chuckleworthy.
Simple reality is we're fucked. We're addicted to MMT, both parties CLEARLY don't give even the slightest fuck about the national debt, inflation, or any other metric that matters.
We are basically in a managed decline at this point, and the sad part is the rest of the western world is even more fucked and getting fucked even faster than we are.
ewokparts@reddit
You really expected anything else?
CranberraSpirall@reddit
EnemysGate_Is_Down@reddit
Calvin Coolidge was the only Republican who ever reduced the size of the US government.
I can't believe there are still libertarians that fall for the GOPs crap. Just in the past 40 years Clinton (and Obama to a much more limited sense) limited the government size while Trump, Reagan and both Bush's exploded the government size.
Biden is a wash for me since I don't think he actually did anything himself.
aej302@reddit
Obama created a govt mandate for health insurance. Anything else he did was completely and utterly negated by completely fucking the insurance industry for the masses
Away_Ad_509@reddit
Obama’s “fucking the is tusncr industry” is going to look like walk in the park compared to Trump and the republicans are doing.
aej302@reddit
I mean I can't say for sure, but I can say anecdotally, my health insurance premium for my small business went from 120k a year to 406k the very next year with no other changes. Pretty hard to absorb that as a small family business with out making major changes to the plan and employee coverage and their premium responsibility. I imagine that this happened across the board to everyone except govt workers.
Personally I'm all for a complete collapse of the current system of insurance and Healthcare but that's not happening anytime soon
jekyl42@reddit
What did you expect? This has been the GOP for literal decades.
redpandaeater@reddit
Our debt is already so bad that the income tax from most of us can't even service it.
captain-prax@reddit
They are raising the debt ceiling to an additional $5 trillion USD. I was alive when it was less than that in all! I hadn't even graduated high school by then, I'm not that old!
According to data available on Investopedia, the U.S. national debt reached approximately $5.2 trillion in 1996.
https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-debt/
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
Well this was an eye opening experience
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
When have they EVER done that?
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
Dwight D. Eisenhower
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
Wrong.
There was a brief dip for 2 years, from his other 6 years it was up-up-up.
Eisenhower did not shrink the government. He expanded it. Like every other Republican, ever.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
Your right, my data was wrong.
AbolishtheDraft@reddit
Is this a surprise? None of the iterations of the OBBB were going to do anything but massively raise spending. Your first mistake was trusting anyone in government (except maybe Thomas Massie)
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
I suppose I still had hope. I shouldn’t have.
Malkav1379@reddit
JD? Vance, the VP? Who thought he would vote against Trump?
CaptainMcsplash@reddit
The bill doesn’t actually add a significant amount to our debt over 10 years. 3-4 trillion might seem like a lot, but it is a small percentage of what the debt will be in 10 years. Promises were still broken and I will not be voting for Vance, but it’s not like anything big changed.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
To me it’s more what it represents, while having the terrible side effect of bad ecenomic policy
teleologicalrizz@reddit
Man, who could have seen this coming?
MeFunGuy@reddit
Op you cant be serious.
Jd Vance wrote a fucking anti Libertarian essay for Christ's sake.
Trump snubbed the Libertarians.
Trump has done nothing Libertarian.
Fucking paleo my ass.
Conservatives have NEVER BEEN ON THE LIBERTARIAN SIDE.
B1G_Fan@reddit
My understanding is that the Senate Bill is different from the House version. The game’s not quite over, yet.
But, yeah, I knew Trump and the GOP weren’t going to cut spending. That’s why I voted for Chase Oliver, even for his many faults.
mello-t@reddit
Republicans are no longer the party of small government. Sorry, the shoe doesn’t fit.
Away_Ad_509@reddit
They never were
carwashblunt@reddit
I know hair stylist and food servers are rejoicing somewhere tho
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
lol
Corrosive_salts@reddit
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
Best Simpson gif use I’ve seen yet
Easterncoaster@reddit
I don’t hate tax cuts even if they “increase the deficit” under the “starve the beast” principle that spending cuts will follow later when things get bleak.
But this wasn’t that. This was “cut revenue AND increase spending”.
Neither fiscally conservative nor responsible.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
It’s a high risk low reward strategy then every works.
HurricaneSpencer@reddit
Are you new here?
Republicans don't decrease spending.
They simply spend differently and want control other aspects of your life than Democrats do.
Miserable_Layer_8679@reddit (OP)
Decreasing spending is something all political parties at some point claim to do, it’s just as of now the teles party movement pushed republicans to push for small government. Also saying all republicans want to control your life is a generalization I wouldn’t make.
strawhatguy@reddit
Can’t really vote Democrat either. They want communist grocery stores now, apparently.
poneros@reddit
No they don’t.. where do you read this nonsense.
lesmalheurs@reddit
Have you heard about Zohran Mamdani?
poneros@reddit
Come on then.. I’m genuinely interested in seeing a video interview on this. Post some links.
lesmalheurs@reddit
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zacharyfolk/2025/06/25/zohran-mamdanis-most-surprising-proposals-from-city-owned-grocery-stores-to-arresting-netanyahu/
This looks like a good summary.
strawhatguy@reddit
Yeah Mamdani has said it’s a pilot program, but we all know how “temporary” these things are. And it’ll make grocery deserts worse, as no new grocery stores will come to these neighborhoods, which of course they’ll blame on the private sector, as government dependency sets in for these neighborhoods
poneros@reddit
So what we have here is some socialism. Pure communism would control the production of the food, tell you what you have to buy, track that you take it.
What’s wrong with this is that it’s taking business opportunities away from people.
Just throwing out the word communism is lazy at best and is more about getting a reaction than debating why they think this is a solution to an issue of high prices.
We should be discussing alternatives to socialism to help each other in society instead of seeking to use labels to recruit division.
fiftycamelsworth@reddit
Stuff he actually says or trash propaganda about him?
lesmalheurs@reddit
You can find videos of him talking openly about these things. There is even a CNN article defending him.
VicRattlehead90@reddit
Lmao you thought there was anything libertarian about vance 😆
AkimboBears@reddit
Some of the BBB spending is overstated because the congressional budget office categorized tax cuts as spending but it still is weak sauce.
gregaustex@reddit
The MAGA party is not a Conservative party.
Even before MAGA the GOP has demonstrated no interest in curbing the debt for decades.
Hope those MMT folks are right.
AgeOfReasonEnds31120@reddit
This bill is extremely dumb, but the "nothing ever happens" side of me says it's really not gonna do much in the grand scheme of things.
fiftycamelsworth@reddit
nah, it will do stuff over the next 4-30 years, but we will have forgotten why those things are happening because they will just seep into the misery of our everyday lives.
As a bonus, the misery will somehow be blamed on Democrats. Like, when Medicare is impossible to get due to these new regulations, it will just be "proof" of why Democrat are stupid for thinking healthcare could work, and really just evidence that healthcare is terrible and we should get rid of it for everyone.
AgeOfReasonEnds31120@reddit
That's kinda how life has been for the past 80 years.
spicy_jamaica@reddit
Who voted no? Obviously Rand Paul.
Riverrat1@reddit
Most of the conservatives I know hate this bill. At least there is one thing we can agree on.
ArsePucker@reddit
Sad for public lands…
Austinfromthe605@reddit
They took that part out I thought?
ArsePucker@reddit
Maybe… I didn’t hear about Ig they did.
Hopefully someone can confirm either way.
--khaos--@reddit
Yes they removed selling public lands from the big fat bill.
According to the NYT on June 28, "Senator Mike Lee, Republican of Utah, said late Saturday that he had dropped his contentious plan to sell millions of acres of public lands from the sweeping domestic policy package that the Senate will soon begin debating."
ArsePucker@reddit
Yay! Thank you!
datafromravens@reddit
It's interesting because in the past a lot of people here support tax cuts pretty much no matter what but now we want them to go up?
Pure-Anything-585@reddit
can someone post a link or give a good explanation for that bill. I don't follow legislation, but even I, completely done deaf to the RepDem drama, have heard this "big beautiful bill" saying. I just don't know what it is.
--khaos--@reddit
Just Google it and skip the AI summary. Click through the news articles and read from sources you trust / are legitimate.
ClapDemCheeks1@reddit
What do we do now? The same thing we always do.
Live our lives.
The bill sucks just as much as any other pork filled bill.
Expensive_Tailor_293@reddit
Welcome to adulthood, i guess
dnegvesk@reddit
Alex Jones said if bill fails the economy will tank.
c0ld--@reddit
This is something I think everyone knew was going to happen. People vote for Trump hoping he won't cause damage like the Democrats would... and he has a stupid bill like this passed.
This is why there will never be a good President for the US ever again. Sides keep switching... the Big Beautiful machine keeps rolling on.
Tippy4OSU@reddit
I guess we do what we always do, wait and see
WhatRUsernamesUsed4@reddit
Luckily for my moral superiority, I didn't vote for anyone that voted yes on this trash (including Vance). If you got got last November, that's on you, because this was predictable.
ChampionMyFriend@reddit
While I wish they cut spending, the Deficit as a percentage of the GDP will ultimately be stagnant. So there’s not going to be even more money printing. But we aren’t necessarily move things in the right direction either. Looks as far as spending goes, we ultimately just stagnated stuff. Which I guess is better than continuing the downward spiral, but again, not what’s needed for things to move in a good fiscal direction
Dunderton@reddit
"conservatives" are always like rock on a beach. They appear to want to stay the same, but really they're just a little behind the tides moving around them. "Conservatives" today are more liberal than Clinton was during his presidency both fiscally and socially. Don't trust them and don't idolize them. They are occasionally useful tools but that is very, very seldom.
Interesting_Loquat90@reddit
This isn't anything new.