Well, that was the status quo. Nothing on that front might change, but having a well supported 3rd party option that has a more stable ground on fiscal conservatism is a net positive to me. Far from perfect, but better than continuing the same uniparty shit spiral.
Yeah, which is why he won’t back libertarians. He isn’t even actually mad about the bill. He is throwing a fucking hissy fit because he got sat down by his bosses like someone who actually has to work for a living and got called out for claiming he could save so much money then turning up with fuck nothing.
He is mad he got held accountable and wants to deflect all the blame on Trump (who I agree rightly should not be increasing the deficit).
That's because DOGE had no real power. Everybody got excited about potential cuts and with all 3 branches under republican control, they didn't make any permanent cuts. Elon built much of his wealth on government subsidies but if he acts on breaking up the uniparty based on ideas of reducing the size of government, even if he has ulterior motives, will be a net benefit
This is one of the better takes in this thread. Makes sense it got down voted. Every single one of Elons businesses lives or dies based on its relationship to the government.
Regardless he is advocating decreased spending and balancing the budget. We as “libertarians” are going to be against that just because he has a different motive than we do?
$4.9B in subsidies (grants, tax credits & loans) and $33B in contracts for services delivered to State, Federal, and Local governments since 2003. There is a difference between subsidies and contracts.
Why would you take this to be any more "real" than when he was calling for subsidies for electric cars, or for massive cuts to government spending? He's an opportunist, he's going to say whatever he thinks might appeal to people in the moment.
I'm genuinely concerned that Massie will lose and the authoritarian in chief will appoint someone 10x worse and ruin the work that Massie did. He has no right.
I'm glad he's supporting Massie, but I am not sure if this will turn into a Trump v Musk proxy war. If so, this would likely play to Massie detriment. It's not like Musk is wildly popular these days and the MAGA cult with march along with their bloated orange savior.
Why the fuck did he put his money behind the cult/scam that is Trump? Even if he thought he could buy favor, the guy is mostly famous for lying and not paying his bills.
If he's even halfway serious about what he claims to care about, Elon could have been the person to turn Libertarianism into a real party. At this point he's too toxic to even bother.
Elon has always been in the libertarian tent, not a surprise. This is good for libertarians. Screw the purity test, he’s been giving Massie and Rand a ton of exposure lately
If he’s serious then I can’t argue. People can vote with their wallet. I’m not gonna be super upset if he decides to support the right people, even if he has stupid or selfish reasoning for it. I don’t know how we became so obsessed with purity in this country, politics isn’t supposed to be pure. It’s about getting the right things done. Right now the right thing is to cut government spending, and if Elon supports that who cares, accept his help. If Nancy Pelosi herself came out against government, spending odd support her too.
There's something weird about the puritanism I see in libertarian and ancap forums. They'd rather take their ball and go home than play with anyone who doesn't share 100% of their ideology.
If you're talking about real-world US federal politics but starting your arguments from a theoretical magical ancap world with private roads, no state coercion, and perfect property rights then you're delusional and unhelpful.
yeah I know exactly what you mean. I feel like this is such a silly approach, we should throw our weight behind candidates that come close to our beliefs. I think a lot of libertarians seem to take that to mean don't vote for libertarian candidates, but instead choose the lesser of two evils, but I feel like people are really not thinking strategically.
He’s been using Uncle Sam to further his companies, not to get rich, which he doesn’t care about outside of using his wealth to further his companies. (Incoming hate replies that can’t think crítically beyond the fact that Elon is a billionaire)
Your argument totally convinced me that he is not just another tool abusing tax money and furthering his own advantage over everyone else…. Totally convinced lol
100% agree it’s completely nonsensical to ask someone to refuse money and it’s also an anti libertarian sentiment. The government allowing for it part is the problem. I have the same opinion with taxes, literally every American should do their damndest to avoid paying taxes we can’t get mad at the ones who have the means to avoid the most, get mad at the system
He has raised serious money in the past - I just hope he does it again for real fiscal conservatives. I think he is going to exit politics shortly. He's a inventor/business/investor combo - our generation's Thomas Edison. Politics has only hurt him and his companies. I think like most other people of his caliber, he will realize politics is a waste of his time and money. Worse, it's hurting his companies.
Any kind of exposure to the corruption of the two party system we have is good IMO. I don't trust this fucker one bit, he's more a populist than anything. But if it helps the third-party cause, I'll take it.
Elon needs to shut the fuck up and let someone else be the figure for a third party movement. It's great and all to support it but Elon himself is a snake and could never hope to get even as much support as Ross Perot managed.
the deficit isn't increasing because of more spending, it's increasing because they aren't allowing tax cuts to expire. I really find it hard to believe libertarians would want taxes to go up.
Elon will fund opposition to people that oppose his goals, not people that align with his values. Last year that was Trump, now it’s anyone in Congress that opposes him.
He's obviously just mad the government isn't going to be paying people to buy his cars with $40,000 bribes. The debt ceiling is one of many issues this country has, but also so is the energy crisis.
It's a great step in the right direction but the problem of corruption and uniparty doesn't get solved until AIPAC is registered as a foreign lobby and those supported by the Israel and "special interest groups" get the boot from any sort of power. People like Massie need the boost to bring this all out into the light.
Elon sucks, who cares what he does? He needs to just build his Dr. Evil style volcano lair, drag his domestic abuse toddler with him, work on some sharks with laser beams together and leave the rest of the world alone.
Ya know, kinda like the 'not a flame-thrower' and all the money he has at his disposal... and neurolink, I could see him putting money aside for a small tank of remote-control sharks with Lazer pointers just because he thinks it'd be hilarious. (Like the reaction he had to the deer in the bottom of a swimming pool meme)
... realistically, how much does a tank of sharks cost with a couple of marine biology interns?
Oh!, and you gotta have a trap door, or a bridge that opens.
I disagree with it somewhat namely it isn't the fact the fact that a budget isn't balanced the reason why congresspeople should hold their heads in shame. It would be if they were to increase government spending that is the problem. I was going to quote Milton Friedman but the quote is already there so I am going to loosely quote Robert Murphy from the Mises Institute. I would rather have an unbalanced budget where the government spends less to a balanced budget where the government spends more.
SpareSimian@reddit
Elon is today's Ross Perot. Perot got rich selling IT services to the government and then ran for President. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot
Parabellum12@reddit
ITT: a bunch of people hating on the man instead of the idea.
Hate musk all you want, but if he puts his money where his mouth is, this is nothing but good news.
waltur_d@reddit
You think the guy that lives off government subsidies is gonna be supportive of libertarianism? He’s gonna try and buy influence.
albybum@reddit
Well, that was the status quo. Nothing on that front might change, but having a well supported 3rd party option that has a more stable ground on fiscal conservatism is a net positive to me. Far from perfect, but better than continuing the same uniparty shit spiral.
RussColburn@reddit
Agreed - he's playing by the game's rules. I support publicly funded elections, but that's not what we have.
BastiatF@reddit
He didn't get anything but grief by supporting Trump
Rstar2247@reddit
Let's be real... backing libertarians isn't the way to broker influence...
SpecialistNote6535@reddit
Yeah, which is why he won’t back libertarians. He isn’t even actually mad about the bill. He is throwing a fucking hissy fit because he got sat down by his bosses like someone who actually has to work for a living and got called out for claiming he could save so much money then turning up with fuck nothing.
He is mad he got held accountable and wants to deflect all the blame on Trump (who I agree rightly should not be increasing the deficit).
stray_leaf89@reddit
That's because DOGE had no real power. Everybody got excited about potential cuts and with all 3 branches under republican control, they didn't make any permanent cuts. Elon built much of his wealth on government subsidies but if he acts on breaking up the uniparty based on ideas of reducing the size of government, even if he has ulterior motives, will be a net benefit
Corvoxcx@reddit
This is one of the better takes in this thread. Makes sense it got down voted. Every single one of Elons businesses lives or dies based on its relationship to the government.
Parabellum12@reddit
Deflect what blame exactly? He made recommendations and nobody listened. Can’t blame him for that.
And funny how you know he “isn’t even actually mad” lmao. Pure conjecture.
Parabellum12@reddit
Regardless he is advocating decreased spending and balancing the budget. We as “libertarians” are going to be against that just because he has a different motive than we do?
albybum@reddit
Nobody hates libertarians more than other libertarians.
juzz88@reddit
Damned Libertarians, they ruined Libertarianism!
bl0rq@reddit
What subsidies are you referring to?
KruKruxKran@reddit
$38B of your tax $$ worth. Do you know how to use Grok?
txeagle24@reddit
$4.9B in subsidies (grants, tax credits & loans) and $33B in contracts for services delivered to State, Federal, and Local governments since 2003. There is a difference between subsidies and contracts.
KruKruxKran@reddit
It's a subsidy if you can't afford to go to mars right now. Remember the cost of living?
Parabellum12@reddit
Dude don’t come in here and promote AI bullshit
bigjoe13@reddit
Amen. This new gen doesn't realize it's the new Perot.
cgeezy22@reddit
Until Massie does something he doesn't like.
viking_@reddit
Why would you take this to be any more "real" than when he was calling for subsidies for electric cars, or for massive cuts to government spending? He's an opportunist, he's going to say whatever he thinks might appeal to people in the moment.
_up_and_atom@reddit
When did he call for subsidies for electric cars?
Yonigajt@reddit
Rand Paul for Pres?
yaherdwithturd@reddit
I voted for Ron and I’d vote for Rand
ohboyohbanja@reddit
Hope his ass cashes those checks and he isnt all bullshit.
yaherdwithturd@reddit
Made me LOL
wtfredditacct@reddit
I mean, he did have a very public talking out and subsequent feud with the President of the United States. That's not nothing lol
ohboyohbanja@reddit
Yeah but it's that coming back for more that determines the heft and pendulism of ones nutsack.
Sovereign_Black@reddit
I like this version of Elon. I wish this guy was around all the time.
Genubath@reddit
He seems politically unreliable and unprincipled. He lashes out and burns bridges when he doesn't get his way.
claybine@reddit
I'm genuinely concerned that Massie will lose and the authoritarian in chief will appoint someone 10x worse and ruin the work that Massie did. He has no right.
yellowdartsw@reddit
I think it would be quite interesting if Massie ran for Mitch’s seat.
International_Fig262@reddit
I'm glad he's supporting Massie, but I am not sure if this will turn into a Trump v Musk proxy war. If so, this would likely play to Massie detriment. It's not like Musk is wildly popular these days and the MAGA cult with march along with their bloated orange savior.
beast_mode209@reddit
Good.
DoctorGonzoEsquire@reddit
Why the fuck did he put his money behind the cult/scam that is Trump? Even if he thought he could buy favor, the guy is mostly famous for lying and not paying his bills.
If he's even halfway serious about what he claims to care about, Elon could have been the person to turn Libertarianism into a real party. At this point he's too toxic to even bother.
HoldMyWong@reddit
Elon has always been in the libertarian tent, not a surprise. This is good for libertarians. Screw the purity test, he’s been giving Massie and Rand a ton of exposure lately
425Marine@reddit
Fuck Elon Musk.
gpcyan3@reddit
Could he support the libertarian party instead of making a new one? He aligns with many of the parties’ views.
BurgersBaconFreedom@reddit
Until he calls out the jew, I sleep.
xJohnnyBloodx@reddit
He's trying to find a new way to buy his way back into power after his falling out with Trump.
Vashgrave@reddit
Let the formation......
BEGIN!
7in7turtles@reddit
If he’s serious then I can’t argue. People can vote with their wallet. I’m not gonna be super upset if he decides to support the right people, even if he has stupid or selfish reasoning for it. I don’t know how we became so obsessed with purity in this country, politics isn’t supposed to be pure. It’s about getting the right things done. Right now the right thing is to cut government spending, and if Elon supports that who cares, accept his help. If Nancy Pelosi herself came out against government, spending odd support her too.
nonoohnoohno@reddit
There's something weird about the puritanism I see in libertarian and ancap forums. They'd rather take their ball and go home than play with anyone who doesn't share 100% of their ideology.
If you're talking about real-world US federal politics but starting your arguments from a theoretical magical ancap world with private roads, no state coercion, and perfect property rights then you're delusional and unhelpful.
7in7turtles@reddit
yeah I know exactly what you mean. I feel like this is such a silly approach, we should throw our weight behind candidates that come close to our beliefs. I think a lot of libertarians seem to take that to mean don't vote for libertarian candidates, but instead choose the lesser of two evils, but I feel like people are really not thinking strategically.
wtfredditacct@reddit
He's the richest person in the world. His options are freedom or George Soros.
The-Dinkus-Aminkus@reddit
Idk i mean he loves attention so much, its hard to view anything he does outside that lens.
Detroit2GR@reddit
Sure, but Elon is high profile, so even if this move is for attention it helps boost attention on Massie too
The-Dinkus-Aminkus@reddit
Its more likely to make people dislike anyone Elon likes that they don't already have an opinion on.
Zorrgo@reddit
Elon's biggest effort is concerning his image at all times. I don't trust him an inch since he's been using uncle Sam to get rich
wtfredditacct@reddit
Unfortunately, the government forces him to play in the government contract sphere by heavily regulating basically everything he aspires to do.
Cars? Heavily regulated.
Rockets? Heavily regulated.
I don't believe he's in any way altruistic, but he's currently the best shot we have at forcing government in that direction.
Billybob_Bojangles2@reddit
I don't think anyone can fault a businessman for doing what's best for his business. The real fault lies with the feds who allow it.
nayrad@reddit
He’s been using Uncle Sam to further his companies, not to get rich, which he doesn’t care about outside of using his wealth to further his companies. (Incoming hate replies that can’t think crítically beyond the fact that Elon is a billionaire)
Zorrgo@reddit
Your argument totally convinced me that he is not just another tool abusing tax money and furthering his own advantage over everyone else…. Totally convinced lol
nayrad@reddit
You’d rather he actively refused the opportunity to receive more money for his companies? That’s your argument?
Chrisc46@reddit
Obviously, libertarians oppose government authority to distort commerce in this way.
It's unsurprising that individuals will try to use this authority for their own advantage.
But, fundamentally, the issue is the authority itself and not those seeking to capitalize on it.
Anyone who hates Musk for this instead of the government is truly misplacing that hatred.
nayrad@reddit
100% agree it’s completely nonsensical to ask someone to refuse money and it’s also an anti libertarian sentiment. The government allowing for it part is the problem. I have the same opinion with taxes, literally every American should do their damndest to avoid paying taxes we can’t get mad at the ones who have the means to avoid the most, get mad at the system
Original-Document-82@reddit
anything to take down the establishment boys, the enemy of my enemy is my friend
TrickyStatement0@reddit
He has raised serious money in the past - I just hope he does it again for real fiscal conservatives. I think he is going to exit politics shortly. He's a inventor/business/investor combo - our generation's Thomas Edison. Politics has only hurt him and his companies. I think like most other people of his caliber, he will realize politics is a waste of his time and money. Worse, it's hurting his companies.
fantom_farter@reddit
Any kind of exposure to the corruption of the two party system we have is good IMO. I don't trust this fucker one bit, he's more a populist than anything. But if it helps the third-party cause, I'll take it.
redpandaeater@reddit
Elon needs to shut the fuck up and let someone else be the figure for a third party movement. It's great and all to support it but Elon himself is a snake and could never hope to get even as much support as Ross Perot managed.
nonoohnoohno@reddit
Do you have a somebody and billions of dollars waiting in the wings to start this 3rd party movement?
redpandaeater@reddit
Elon isn't going to be a successful face for a party. He can't even get out of his own way.
Entire_Weight8014@reddit
Good. Wasteful spending is a plague.
datafromravens@reddit
the deficit isn't increasing because of more spending, it's increasing because they aren't allowing tax cuts to expire. I really find it hard to believe libertarians would want taxes to go up.
MateTheNate@reddit
Elon will fund opposition to people that oppose his goals, not people that align with his values. Last year that was Trump, now it’s anyone in Congress that opposes him.
RireBaton@reddit
What if the person he is supporting as opposition is even worse somehow? Opposition isn't enough, they need to be principled candidates.
RireBaton@reddit
Remember how they used to talk about weaponized autism?
JamesMattDillon@reddit
If he does donate to him, that is great.
Uncle_Paul_Hargis@reddit
missl90210@reddit
Ooohhh! I’d like to see some money behind Massie!!
d3fc0n545@reddit
He's obviously just mad the government isn't going to be paying people to buy his cars with $40,000 bribes. The debt ceiling is one of many issues this country has, but also so is the energy crisis.
DyerNC@reddit
So are we having a bidding war for our government? I thought we voted in the USA?
PM_ME_DNA@reddit
If a bidding war gets us more capitalism and liberty is is preferable to what ever is happening now
skysealand@reddit
Bro needs to pump Bitcoin and stfu with politics
PM_ME_DNA@reddit
Turns out we do need a billionaire to advance liberty and we shouldn’t try to court communists
bootywizrd@reddit
Fantastic!
chad-proton@reddit
Does anyone in Elons audience not already know all of that?
landdon@reddit
Trying to win back the people. And he'll absolutely do it too because Americans are stupid like that
OniTYME@reddit
It's a great step in the right direction but the problem of corruption and uniparty doesn't get solved until AIPAC is registered as a foreign lobby and those supported by the Israel and "special interest groups" get the boot from any sort of power. People like Massie need the boost to bring this all out into the light.
Hondamousse@reddit
Elon sucks, who cares what he does? He needs to just build his Dr. Evil style volcano lair, drag his domestic abuse toddler with him, work on some sharks with laser beams together and leave the rest of the world alone.
SketchTeno@reddit
Ya know, kinda like the 'not a flame-thrower' and all the money he has at his disposal... and neurolink, I could see him putting money aside for a small tank of remote-control sharks with Lazer pointers just because he thinks it'd be hilarious. (Like the reaction he had to the deer in the bottom of a swimming pool meme)
... realistically, how much does a tank of sharks cost with a couple of marine biology interns?
Oh!, and you gotta have a trap door, or a bridge that opens.
Beginning-Panic5153@reddit
I disagree with it somewhat namely it isn't the fact the fact that a budget isn't balanced the reason why congresspeople should hold their heads in shame. It would be if they were to increase government spending that is the problem. I was going to quote Milton Friedman but the quote is already there so I am going to loosely quote Robert Murphy from the Mises Institute. I would rather have an unbalanced budget where the government spends less to a balanced budget where the government spends more.
EskimoPrisoner@reddit
Well, they are increasing spending.
Amazing-Film-2825@reddit
Dude sucks ass. He’s a bad player. What he is saying is cool but thats not actually what he cares about. He’s a grifter.
ThreetoedJack@reddit
This is freaking amazing.
32indigomoons@reddit
Idk I’d just an American party if it crashed the govt lol
chunkah69@reddit
He’s not getting what he wants so he’s trying to rip off a new mark