Too close
Posted by sftysw@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 278 comments
Came across this clip on IG. Comments said it happened in Golfe de Saint-Tropez, south of France.
Posted by sftysw@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 278 comments
Came across this clip on IG. Comments said it happened in Golfe de Saint-Tropez, south of France.
Training-Honey6987@reddit
Canadairs only take water in reserved corridors reported on navigation maps in south east of France. So navigators have duty to check their presence and give way.
falcon5nz@reddit
While I don't disagree with you, I think saying "...navigators have duty to check their presence and give way." would be cold comfort while climbing out of a wrecked, sinking aircraft after you hit them, regardless of if they were supposed to be there or not.
isellJetparts@reddit
"lots of graves for people that had the right-of-way"
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
Also people are assuming the planes had right of way without knowing if this happened inside or outside of the re-filling corridors.
ABoutDeSouffle@reddit
https://news.mc/2021/08/18/narrow-miss-for-boaters-in-bay-of-saint-tropez/
dakari777@reddit
I don't really care if the planes where it's suppose to be or not (emergency landings and such...), it has the right of way. They're impossibly less maneuverable than something like a boat/car/human body. People on the ground need to get out of the way.
JodyGonnaFuckYoWife@reddit
Uh dude, if I'm in a plane and get $10 for every time I could maneuver to crash into your boat while you get $1 million for every time you can crash your boat into my plane.......I'll retire a wealthy man before you can afford a sandwich.
evilbunnyofdoom@reddit
...those are not just any seaplanes tho, they are firefighting planes. I think any reasonable human being would agree that firefighting planes should have first pass on that small little chunk of water.
JodyGonnaFuckYoWife@reddit
The area is indeed notam'ed out for firefighting operations.
However, the notion that a boat or human is somehow more maneuverable than a plane is ludicrous.
redditburner20250424@reddit
We build airports with big, long runways because the maneuverability of fixed-wing aircraft is limited. You can't land an airplane just anywhere you feel like it.
SIeepyJB45@reddit
Who checks the notam before taking their boat out? I'll bet most weekend warriors (boaters) have never heard of notams before.
JodyGonnaFuckYoWife@reddit
In France, you are required to have a license to operate this boat.
They also publish 'boat notams', and it is the Boat Captain's responsibility to be aware of his surroundings.
Zero excuses for this dope to be fucking about out there in his ski boat.
SIeepyJB45@reddit
That wasn't the point I was making, I'm saying nobody checks them before taking their boat out. At least here in the States.
JodyGonnaFuckYoWife@reddit
Make any excuse for him that you please.
Doesn't change the fact that it's the boat Captain's fault.
SIeepyJB45@reddit
Lol u mad lil bro? When did I make excuses for him? I was simply stating the boating customs here.
JodyGonnaFuckYoWife@reddit
Pick one.
SIeepyJB45@reddit
Stating a fact isn't making excuses for him lol. That's your incorrect assumption
JodyGonnaFuckYoWife@reddit
k
SIeepyJB45@reddit
K
wlonkly@reddit
boatams
r_a_d_@reddit
Ignorance is not an excuse.
r_a_d_@reddit
Not sure you fully understand the word maneuverable. For example a boat will have a smaller turning radius.
HirsuteHacker@reddit
Boats have 2 dimensions of maneuverability, aircraft have 3.
r_a_d_@reddit
Indeed, but I don’t think this matters when both are districted to the water plain.
messick@reddit
> every time you can crash your boat
I don't think the various severed body parts that use to constitute my body would have to work about anything after the first time.
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
If a sailboats making 4 knots theres no way to get out of the way in time after you realize the risk of collision. Its way too slow.
TerminalVector@reddit
There's a reason that seaplanes are at the very bottom of the COLREGs hierarchy. I suppose firefighting aircraft operating in a designated corridor might be an exception but in general a plane must avoid all watercraft, given their vastly greater ability to maneuver and greater visibility from the air.
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
Yeah exactly, people here seem to think airplanes should always have the right of way but thats now how the law sees it.
Its funny as people in other comments said the boat would be more maneuverable than the plane.
EducationalCookie196@reddit
A seaplane on the water counts as a boat under power. Since it is approaching from the starboard side, and neither vessel is "burdened," the boat should probably have given way. That's my take anyway. There are generally also rules about giving way to emergency vehicles of all sorts, so that probably comes into play here.
The planes are definitely at the bottom of the of the totem pole when in the air and landing, though.
geocapital@reddit
That's why they should consult a map before going anywhere. That's why captains need licenses...
downforce_dude@reddit
I feel like I’m watching anti-car people argue that cyclists should be entitled to the road and also allowed to follow their own rules
Lumpy-Narwhal-1178@reddit
I feel like I'm watching non-drivers argue with non-cyclists about right of way.
JodyGonnaFuckYoWife@reddit
There ain't no 'captain of the 13ft ski boat' license.
dakari777@reddit
Personally if I were going 4 knots in a sailboat and saw planes coming in I'd just not keep sailing that direction 👍 think something else is way too slow if it's taking them/you that long to realize the risk of collision.
ovideos@reddit
Better to stay at a consistent velocity and direction. Worst thing would be plane adjusts to miss you but then you suddenly alter course and everyone is dead.
dakari777@reddit
I mean possibly but like I said a boats much more maneuverable than a plane and the boat should be the one getting out of the way. Without communication theres no way to really solve the situation you're describing. I could just as easily say the plane should stay at a consistent velocity and direction, worst thing would be the boat adjusts to miss you but then you suddenly alter course and everyone is dead.
Hefty-Kangaroo-1022@reddit
How can you possibly think that a boat is more maneuverable than a plane?
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
By the time you see the risk of collision you have maybe a minute or 2 until landing so you would not be able to complete a 180 degree turn in a large cruising boat in that time.
dakari777@reddit
Would like to point out that boat in question in the video is neither a sail boat nor is it coasting at 4 knots nor is it a "large" boat (whatever the eff you define as "large"). But unless you're thinking like a yacht or larger you can generally 180 any boats on a dime especially if they have motors.
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
Oh sorry i didnt see the motor.
buttrumpus@reddit
I'm a pretty seasoned sailor. For right of way in this situation I'd refer to who is the more maneuverable vessel operating in that zone. I think you could argue that's the sailboat, and that they should give way.
FizzBuzz4096@reddit
I wouldn't guess at what's the most maneuverable vessel. I'd consult the actual rules. Looks like ocean so COLREGS.
In that case sailing vessel is stand on, and seaplane is give way. Heck, at sail speeds the sail boat couldn't do jack anyway.
"The most maneuverable": Does that mean that a J-24 on starboard tack should give way to a Lagoon 50 on port? Sure as anything that J-24 could throw in a tack/gybe a heckuva lot easier than the Lagoon. Nope. J-24 should stand on. (Until the provision in rule 8 to not hit stuff kicks in - which it may because the crew of the Lagoon is busy with champagne and charcuterie.)
buttrumpus@reddit
I had it in my head that these planes were picking up water or performing some sort of fire-related thing. Not sure why, so yeah, ignore me.
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
COLREGs suggest seaplanes need to give way to basically all other water craft. There are a variety of good reasons for this but imo if one craft is making 4 knots and one is making 80 knots, it's pretty clear who needs to keep clear and it's not the boat.
spifflog@reddit
By the rules of the road, planes have the right of way over boats. Period.
get_MEAN_yall@reddit
According to international COLREGs they do not...
sssstr@reddit
Not a lot of comfort being dead right.
maxehaxe@reddit
Not many problems either
Poopocalyptict@reddit
Or maybe a whole new set of problems. Who knows.
topherclay@reddit
Fuck are you talking about a bunch of skeletons we have to fight after we die?
Poopocalyptict@reddit
Maybe! You got inside info?
KindlyWhimsy@reddit
that's true coomes with death once you die you never live again
HighlyRegard3D@reddit
I figure being dead is eternally comfortable lol.
Fine_Complex1200@reddit
It's just eternally not uncomfortable.
sssstr@reddit
I may have to reconsider my position on that, you are right.
Musclecar123@reddit
My FI gave me a similar lesson the first time we did a pre-flight in a 152. He showed me the tail controls and how to check their proper deflection because the actuator can be installed backwards which will reverse the command. “Lots of guys have died by not looking over their shoulder to check this.”
Canadian47@reddit
"Lots of guys"...really? I'm sure it has happened but "lots"?
Any post maintenance flight where a control surface was involved, I have had to sign the technical logs certifying that I have independently verified the control movement before the flight. [small aircraft/in Canada]
canadanfil@reddit
Despite these rules, an Air Astana E190 once took off with the ailerons rigged backwards... It's a miracle they didn't crash.
redditburner20250424@reddit
Policies like that may be the result of lots of guys dying.
ic33@reddit
Reversal during maintennace-- especially aileron reversal-- has killed. But also, control travel being impeded, or not happening, or whatever... You really want to look at your ailerons, elevator, and rudder and make sure they're free and correct.
NicHarvs@reddit
I agree. Plus, it must be really hard to get airborne when you pull back on the elevator, and the nose goes down instead of up!
skiman13579@reddit
Well those rules are in place for a reason….. and the sentiment also includes improper maintenance where it moves in the correct direction but doesn’t move the proper way. Oh and rules can be broken……..
THAT mistake has taken down commercial aircraft in our lifetime- a USAir regional Beech 1900 crashed because elevator was improperly rigged, by an inspector!!!! and when they had out of limits W&B they didn’t have enough elevator authority resulting in a stall and crashing into a hangar in Charlotte.
ElminstersBedpan@reddit
Counter point: one loss is too many. Especially as someone who does final inspections for return to service.
I can inspect and checklist all day every day, but if my guys make a mistake and I miss it, that compounds into a bigger problem and increases the risk that the next guy or pilot will miss the same thing.
HardlyAnyGravitas@reddit
It might be more common than you think:
From GA Maintenance Related Accidents: A Review of Ten Years of NTSB Data: https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/oamtechreports/0223.pdf
"Table 5 presents the odds of an installation error for each type of system resulting in a fatality or injury. Two hundred and ninety cases contained enough information to assign a code for type of aircraft system. The remaining five cases were excluded from analysis. The largest proportion of errors were committed during powerplant installations (n = 163, 56.2%). Installation errors associated with the flight controls were the second most frequent category of aircraft systems (n = 39, 13.4%)."
sonofnom@reddit
I agree with you 100% but I wouldn't put it past some CFIs to engage in hyperbole for the sake of trying to reinforce a lesson. Its the same reason the instructors will describe in explicit detail what may happen if you walk into a spinning prop.
Any_Leg_4773@reddit
I love it, and the version I've heard was "cemeteries are full of people who were in the right"
cwajgapls@reddit
Rule # 1 If it’s bigger than you, get out if its way.
Far_Dragonfruit_1829@reddit
Corollary to Rule #1: Any very large ship/truck/aircraft has an attractive field around it which tends to suck in smaller things.
cantRYAN@reddit
‘The law of superior tonnage’
Forgotthebloodypassw@reddit
When I used to teach sailing would tell pupils "Power gives way to sail, but don't be a bloody idiot about it. If a cargo ship is heading towards you at 20 knots get out the way."
unknownmichael@reddit
Reminds me of this epitaph:
HERE LIES THE GRAVE OF MIKE O'DAY, WHO DIED DEFENDING HIS RIGHT OF WAY.
HIS RIGHT WAS CLEAR, HIS WILL WAS STRONG,
BUT HE'S JUST AS DEAD AS IF HE'D BEEN WRONG.
BTMarquis@reddit
"That guys gotta stop. He'll see us."
-James Dean
barefoot_sailor@reddit
"Cemeteries are full of kids who had the right of way"
anonymousmatt@reddit
Don't all vessels have a duty to give way to avoid collision, and wasn't the proximity of these vessels close enough to be a collision hazard? The boat should have given way but didn't, and I would think that doesn't absolve the airplane's duty to give way in such situations where it is safe to do so. He easily could have changed course to widen the gap while still maintaining speed for takeoff.
EllieVader@reddit
The captain I sailed with for years always said “a collision at sea is everybody’s responsibility, better to be safe than dead right.”
MissingGravitas@reddit
They do. As a general rule of thumb, "right of way" just means that in a collision your assignment of fault is more likely (but not guaranteed) to be in the 10-50% range.
Training-Honey6987@reddit
CROSSMED usually announce their presence (and you probably see the fire) so if your ship have low maneuvrability you avoid the corridors. And to be honest those are very good pilot and they find a safe passage for everybody.
SharkAttackOmNom@reddit
How well is this known by locals and tourists? I’m thinking about the regular weekend warriors on the Chesapeake bay, they would have no idea that there are corridors for these things. I don’t even know if it’s negligence as much as obliviousness.
Jubijub@reddit
If you live in the south of France, you know by heart where those corridors are, because you see planes every day (multiple times per day in summer because of fires). I rented a house in St Cyr sur Mer last year, and at the end of the first week I could tell you exactly where the corridors were. Local restaurants /bars would even advertise their proximity, so people can know to go there to spot the sea landings / refilling.
StupendousMalice@reddit
Usually they fill up dozens of times and they do a pass before landing so it really shouldn't be that hard to know its going on. Even in the generally dysfunctional US people manage to make way on busy bodies of water for tankers to fill up.
AdmiralBastard@reddit
Poor John O’Day, died maintaining his right-of-way.
Neither-Way-4889@reddit
Its not exactly easy to see a boat below you when you are in a seaplane. Given how close they were to the nose, I doubt the pilots even saw them before touching down.
HonkHonk@reddit
Those pilots are exceptional, as close as it looks they were extremely confident they wouldn't hit the boat as it moved away from the corridor
Wingmaniac@reddit
So what's the alternative you propose?
cyclicsquare@reddit
It keeps all the blame firmly on the boater where it belongs though. Any sort of apportioning blame just makes people more likely to take stupid chances like this.
Much better for people to talk about that boater that paid a huge fine, got his license suspended or equivalent, and faced some jail time for endangering a plane than for another one to do the same thing, cause a fatal accident, and then come up with the excuses floating around these comments. “Oh I didn’t see the huge yellow plane in the calm seas, didn’t see the notice closing off that area, didn’t wonder why all those other firefighting planes kept circling past us. Must have been too noisy on my boat. My bad.”
Wowerful@reddit
Ohhh! I bet you’re fun at parties!
who_even_cares35@reddit
This is how motorcyclists have to think, I may be in the right but that might also get me killed.
Better to give up your ground
Conor_J_Sweeney@reddit
Also, having two aircraft come in so close together complicates this. It would be very easy for the boaters to become fixated on avoiding the first aircraft and never see or hear the second one coming.
HamsterbackenBLN@reddit
They also do a first pass in the air to show where they're going to get water, it usually get you more than enough time. At least we had time to move with small sail dinghy and no wing, so a motorboat not making way is entitlement
Plus-Suit-5977@reddit
Why flying perpendicular to each other and aimed at same spot while landing?
HamsterbackenBLN@reddit
They're flying parallel to each other and take off as soon as they're loaded.
I'll leave it to the aviation nerds to explain why they do it like that. But it's probably a mix of wind directions, wave direction, and safety
Plus-Suit-5977@reddit
Oh it looked to me like they were perp….. my bad
Rubes2525@reddit
Man, I do feel for seaplane pilots. You just have to hope that no random idiot on a boat will sail into your literal runway. I've seen planes in Vancouver landing near tons of recreational vessels. Land based airports at least have fences and security to prevent random people from wandering around.
friendly-survivor@reddit
Yeah, In Seattle pilots have to deal with these things called "hot tub boats." You can barely see them and they're always operated by drunks with no boating license..
dsaddons@reddit
As an aviation geek I've always found boats insane. Aviation is so structured and literally any random person can be drunkily steering a boat.
kdjfsk@reddit
They totally are insane, and as a former car/motorcycle geek...now boat geek, thats why I do it. there is not even such a thing as a boating license for a recreational boater. You only need a license if you go commercial and want to charge passengers for a ticket to ride. Insurance is not required by the government, only by marinas if you want to keep your boat at one.
Its illegal to install a nitrous oxide kit on your car or bike and drive it in public. You can install one on every motor on your boat. If you get boarded by USCG you can show it to them. As long as you have the proper fire extinguishers and PFDs, they wont give a fuck. They'll probably think its neat...(and cute, because their boat is probably faster and more insane than yours.) You can rig your sails or mod your motors and systems as much as you want. You can make your own boat and get registered.
As for alcohol, you can drink, but you can get a DUI for operating a boat over .08 BAC, just like a car. However open bottles are permitted on a boat, unlike a car. Also, its just the Cap'n that has to blow under the limit. If your boat is big enough to need crew, they can all be hammered.
Thats all recreational, though. Capn's license aka 6 pack/OUPV takes like 5 years of diligent record keeping and comes with a ton more rules and responsibilities, and even that only allows 6 passengers.
FHJ-23@reddit
Well, that might be the case for the U.S. In other regions of the world you do have rules and regulations in place. And operating a boat without a license might be considered as illegal. In France, where the video was taken, you are required to have a license, when the engine has more than 6 HP. As a boat operator you should always check the local rules and situations. By doing that you also would get aware of such a reserved corridor.
Low-Buyer-8758@reddit
Why so close to land then? They could go much further out.
Atholthedestroyer@reddit
Further out puts them in rougher water which makes landings more dangerous and greatly increases fuel consumption driving that far to the docks. The area they land in is considered just as much if an airport as the land based ones; the boater just need to get over themselves and obey the safety/traffic laws like everyone else.
attempted-anonymity@reddit
Also, boats are perfectly capable of being further out in the water since they're, ya know, boats. So moving the planes further out would add problems for them while doing precisely nothing to ameliorate the risk of idiots in boats.
uhljebinator@reddit
The problem lies in anyone and everyone being able to obtain a boating license and in some countries it's enough to pass a writen/oral exam to get one. No practical work whatsoever. For example in Croatia, you go to a sweet water port authority inland (much more lenient exams than on the maritime side) and get the license in an afternoon. Then you go to the coast, rent a boat with zero experience and pray to the gods of luck
SyrusDrake@reddit
I was about to comment that, knowing people, there were probably giant ass warning signs at the marina or something, warning them not to sail in the designated water bomber zone.
qwetzal@reddit
I live in the area. There are not. Locals know about it though, but I've also seen pilots getting water on the first pass.
BobbyTables829@reddit
I don't think I've ever met a pleasure boat Captain who didn't act like everyone should yield to them. I hope it's better in France than the Midwestern US.
Rc72@reddit
In Saint Tropez? Hah, nope. That's one of the world's highest concentration of rich arrogant fucks.
BullTerrierTerror@reddit
They’re called charts not maps.
aerobat3@reddit
A story circulated in the South of France about a dead Scuba diver with mask still on being found far inland, reportedly having been scooped up by a Canadair. Funny, but I doubt that it's true.
adrenaline_X@reddit
Our at the very least, accelerate hard and get th boat up on plane when you clearly see the plane coming in to scoop water.
There were (are some still) Massive fires in Manitoba that killed some people and burned homes and cabins and they had to ban all water craft on the lakes because of idiots like this.
They ended up closing a couple of provincial parks completely to avoid more fires being created and or people causing issues.
whitemamba62@reddit
Blatantly wrong unfortunately
holdbold@reddit
I don't remember planes in the pecking order
whitemamba62@reddit
Seaplanes are last on the hierarchy of vessels per rule 18 of COLREGS. They have a duty to give way to all other sea going craft
Ill-Piccolo-8334@reddit
Planes do not have right of way.
whitemamba62@reddit
Downvotes because no one understands COLREGS rule 18 is sad
digger250@reddit
Which maps are these? Can you link to them?
Training-Honey6987@reddit
Classical marine maps like those https://diffusion.shom.fr/cartes/cartes-marines.html
digger250@reddit
Aren't those charts only updated every couple of years? Fires are more ephemeral. How do they keep up to dates with where the planes want to be?
MissingGravitas@reddit
They are updated far more often than that! In the old days you'd have one of the mates hard at word applying updates to them by hand with their purple chart-correcting pen based off the local Notice to Mariners (NTMs). Where I am in the US, the local notices would come out generally every Thursday. Fortunately the updates were also applied to the charts, so when you ordered them you'd have one current to the date printed on them.
These days, as /u/kdjfsk mentioned, most shipping is now required to be equipped with ECDIS and to use official ENCs. The US has already cancelled all paper charts, so the only official US charts are NOAA ENCs. Other countries still maintain both raster (the old style) and vector, but I expect they will eventually do similar. The nice thing about going electronic is I can update all my charts with a single click, rather than tediously hand-updating them.
(Note that 3rd party products as most recreational apps provide don't count as "official" charts for carriage requirements, but at least in the US recreational boaters aren't required to carry charts.)
kdjfsk@reddit
Sailor here. Afaik, Paper charts arent being updated anymore at all.
At least in the US, and I believe around the world, or at least western/1st world nations, paper charts are being deprecated in favor of 100% Digital. Electronic Navigation Charts are going to be the new standard. When a new area is restricted, it goes on the map and will instantly be live. Those charts can be accessed online basically anytime. Boaters should be able to update the changes on their nav systems whenever they have data available. A lot of boaters are using Garmin's Navionics boat apps, which likely forces map updates as they happen.
so, its going to get way, way better....However, in reality...There are still going to be a lot of old fogey's who will be using outdated electronic nav for decades (shits expensive), and even older fogeys who would swashbuckle to the death if someone tried to take their paper map.
People just getting into boating will likely start with the new systems.
JodyGonnaFuckYoWife@reddit
Here you go
JohnHazardWandering@reddit
Is this a special notice, notice to mariners or a NOTAM like thing?
In the US is there any marine equivalent to NOTAMs?
JodyGonnaFuckYoWife@reddit
Notice to Mariners is the Maritime equivalent.
One_Olive_8933@reddit
Oh that’s a butt-puckering pass…
reddituseronebillion@reddit
It's actually ~~Bombardier~~, ~~Viking Air~~, DeHavailand Canada
Ambitious_Medium_774@reddit
You left out ~~Canadair~~ (although by the time the 415 was developed it was owned by Bombardier).
Koffieslikker@reddit
Don't they announce on Ch16 that you're not supposed to go to where they will be refilling?
centroutemap@reddit
does this weirdly loop for anyone else?
Lookuponthewall@reddit
Common sense suggests that maybe I'll go boating somewhere else and allow the tankers to put out the fire.
FireRotor@reddit
Common sense also suggests that a go around was the safer option.
reddituseronebillion@reddit
Proud to say I'm working on building the new(ish) 515.
akbushpilot@reddit
Can you guys fix the heater and the air conditioning? 😂
neat_klingon@reddit
I found a news article from 2021:
https://news.mc/2021/08/18/narrow-miss-for-boaters-in-bay-of-saint-tropez/
Pretend-Tea8470@reddit
"Following the incident on Tuesday the Maritime Prefecture reminded boaters that it is mandatory to move 500 metres away from the Canadair scooping areas which have absolute priority in this type of emergency situation. Craft should stay clear for one hour after the last overflight. The fine for failing to observe this rule is just 135 euros." A "please use your head statement", and appropriate fine
Danitoba94@reddit
Wow €135.
What a huge hefty crippling fine to pay off for anybody that owns a boat.
Pretend-Tea8470@reddit
Yes, ideally the fine would be better if it had significant financial impact pegged to a persons' earnings. Keep pushing for sensible legislation in your respective region.
SyrusDrake@reddit
On the one hand, I'm absolutely in favor of proportionate fines. On the other hand, just make a comment about income tax or something on Reddit and you'll receive plenty of reminders that the ultra-wealthy usually don't have income, or sometimes not even any actual liquidity.
ttystikk@reddit
Tax wealth, not work.
GroundbreakingWing48@reddit
I think I just read that for the low, low price of $135 Euros, I, too, can have a mostly private boating experience.
Atholthedestroyer@reddit
The fine should have a few more zeros. Some idiots might wave off a 135 Euro fine...they may think twice about a 1,350 or 13,500 Euro fine.
standardtissue@reddit
yeah 135 in the boating world isn't even a bar tab. i can't even get the oil changed in my 2 cylinder 13 hp engine for that little money.
Laffenor@reddit
And possibly capital punishment, of course.
CalvinHobbes101@reddit
It kind of feels like the boat had purposefully positioned itself for this shot, and if they get fined, it's just the cost of doing business.
tagish156@reddit
Yeah they don't exactly seem to be in a hurry to get out of the way.
Pretend-Tea8470@reddit
Clout chasers are a distinct possibility in this day and age
knownothingexpert@reddit
But they did both duck, so it was perfectly safe.
Terrible_Log3966@reddit
I think the boat captain should get a phone number they can call.
ContextWorking976@reddit
The local authorities should have closed the boat ramps and marinas. There's no way for a casual boater to have the situational awareness and skills to safely cruise around while this kind of operation is happening.
Border-landsPD58@reddit
A boater IS supposed to have those skills. You are wrong. Familiarize yourself with some marine charts and actually read the literature provided in the corners. You might learn something; doubtful, given your comment.
ContextWorking976@reddit
I am talking about the general boating population, who cannot tell you port from starboard. You sound offended.
Border-landsPD58@reddit
No. And. You are still wrong. You still need some sort of safety course to operate a recreational boat and if you live in a place where airplanes routinely land in the water, you can bet you ass that's covered in the course. ASSume on somebody else, that shit stinks.
Low-Willingness-2301@reddit
Ok buddy.
Border-landsPD58@reddit
Was I replying to you?? Touch grass.
ThrowAwaAlpaca@reddit
That's not how it works. Canadairs fly training flights all the time in the summer, and there are hundred of marinas and boat ramps.
Boat captains just needs to learn to read a map.
Have_Donut@reddit
Honestly the developed world needs to get off their collective asses about boating laws and licensing. It’s amazing that most people will face more paperwork for building a fence than operating a boat.
IngrownBallHair@reddit
Based on my experience on a shitty inland lake, we should start by making them learn to read. Boating seems to attract the largest quantity of self centered assholes.
ThrowAwaAlpaca@reddit
Self centered or not most ppl would prefer not take a plane to the face. And this isn't south Florida, st-trop is just rich assholes.
IngrownBallHair@reddit
Yea lets wait until I talk my wife into a St Bart vacation, I'll report back with my feelings after some plane spotting if I agree or not.
ContextWorking976@reddit
That last sentence tells me you dont have much experience on the water. Boat captains in general are fucking idiots and will do the most dangerous shit possible without someone telling them not to.
FenPhen@reddit
Do these kinds of recreational captains look at maps, let alone recently updated maps? Of the times I've been on small boats, I don't recall the captain reviewing maps before leaving, and definitely not pulling out maps when on the water.
standardtissue@reddit
Many don't. I am a recreational sailor who took classes and then spent a couple years sailing under the tutelage of more experience folks before striking off and buying my own very inexpensive sailboat. I believed this was the natural course of things, logically, right ? Wrong. Once I got to my first marina I was stunned to find out how many people don't bother with lessons before buying a boat, don't put ardent research into the matter, and just learn what they happen to learn from other people. It's not a rare amount of boaters like this either, at least at my marina. To make it worse, we all know that map reading is just difficult for some people; I'm sure the pilot community all knows folks who struggle with navigation and map reading; it's the same in the boating community of course. Some actually go out without charts at all, just using the channels to get into the bigger waters, and most of us actually don't use paper charts at all anymore, opting for electronic charts. Many of these are highly updated and have community inputs as well (because we do have to deal with things like storm debris, wreckage and other "fast moving data" things. However, this will be stunning and it should be - I have come across multiple owners are rather expensive boats who literally didn't know how to even use their electronics. Not once, not twice, multiple times. One time I was sailing with someone on a 40' boat and became the defacto helmsman (a place usually reserved for the owner) because I could mash the buttons on the system fast enough to figure out how it worked, and pull up the appropriate charts, radar, and position signalling data. Wish it weren't true, but it's true as day. The recreational boating world is essentially completely unregulated, and there are some people with boats whom in my opinion absolutely shouldn't own boats.
In regards to your anecdote about the captain: I rarely use charts when I'm sailing because I know my local waters quite well, where the obstacles, spoilage and shoaling are, and can easily navigate several hours in any direction without them. But, that's me. I studied my charts for quite a bit before even getting on the water, and I've learned the various depths and right now I could probably draw you a fairly accurate chart of the region surrounding my marina by memory despite having not sailed in a year. Many good, skilled and experienced sailors are like this - but that same experience and skill also means that we absolutely consult the charts when in new areas.
Also see my other comment about "Captain". They are not captains; that's a legally reserved term for USGC licensed people. They are skippers or just boaters and sailors. When I am on someone else's large boat and need to communicate clearly to the person in charge I will use "Skipper" or just "Skip"
Rubes2525@reddit
Calling them "captains" is a streach, lol. We don't even call private pilots captains, and the bar to operate one of those boats is WAY lower than a plane, or hell, even a car.
amancalledJayne@reddit
I’m demanding to be called Captain by everyone in my canoe from now on.
Ambitious_Medium_774@reddit
And once upon a time it was thought that flying cars would be a good thing...
FenPhen@reddit
Yeah, that's definitely my experience with friends. I consider them to be pretty smart and responsible with boats, but from talking and boating with them a few times, the bar seems very low for the amount of risk and responsibility.
RealPutin@reddit
No. Certainly not.
Stravlovski@reddit
The planes typically make a first low pass to warn everyone they are coming in for water. Anyone who is on the water should know this or find another hobby/job.
ContextWorking976@reddit
No not really. There are nautical charts available that you can download on your phone or Ipad, but there is not active alert system (like TFRs in the US) that integrates into chart services, like Foreflight for aviation. Even with all of that in general aviation, TFRs are routinely busted by idiots.
The average boater looks at the weather, and if it's not storming, it's good to take the boat out. The average recreational boater is not a safe boater, unfortunately.
ThrowAwaAlpaca@reddit
Electronic maps are a thing? Responsible boat captains do check hazards around the on an ipad or something. It doesn't take much effort.
ThrowAwaAlpaca@reddit
It's called a gps and yes the vast majority of boats have one and use one to look where to go lol.
standardtissue@reddit
Recreational boating is basically completely unregulated. In my state we have to take a boater education course online and get an id card that's good for life, no practice test, no stick time with an instructor, no check outs. Answer a few basic questions and go.
At my last marina there was an overwhelming number of people who watched too much YouTube, decided they were going to sail the world, dipped into their retirement and bought large, expensive sailboats with zero previous sailing experience or training. This was not a one-off; it was rather common in fact. Also, they aren't captains. The term is used casually but it is actually reserved term for those the USCG has licensed. There are many Captain qualifications of course, but they start off with the common "six pack" which requires nothing more than a self-attestation of your time on water, and a written test. Again, no practice, no professional education requirements, no instructor time. The hardest part of the whole process honestly is probably getting the TWIC card.
SoothedSnakePlant@reddit
The fact that you think you can just close the Riviera to boats in the summer tells me you don't have much experience on the water.
ContextWorking976@reddit
There's no way to control boat traffic on the Riviera?
SoothedSnakePlant@reddit
Not reasonably, no.
JohnHazardWandering@reddit
In France, it seems that to drive this boat it would require a boating license.
At least some level of filtering out some of the idiots or assign consequence for ignoring restrictions.
Japanisch_Doitsu@reddit
In the US our boating licenses are like our Drivers licenses. Any idiot with a pulse can unfortunately get one.
grahamcore@reddit
You have boating licenses in your state?
MissingGravitas@reddit
Most states have some form of de-facto license these days, they just call it different things or exempt boaters over certain ages.
RealPutin@reddit
Worth noting a lot of those exemptions are pretty recent/young ages, because they "couldn't" go make existing boaters get licenses, so even in many states with a license the majority of boat operators don't hold one (and don't need to).
Georgia for instance has the cutoff as 1998.
I have a friend who was born in March '97 with a sibling born in February '98, and the sibling had to go through and get an official boating license, while the friend didn't.
But the vast majority of people driving boats in Georgia are older than 28.
MissingGravitas@reddit
Sometime back I looked at the different age cut-offs, and I think worked out the average to be a birth year of '85. Looks like Florida used '88 so pretty much everyone but the elderly (ducks for cover), and California did a rolling implementation that applies to everyone as of this year.
patiofurnature@reddit
I have a boating license in my state. It's been a few years, but I absolutely do not recall any question about airplanes on the test.
ThrowAwaAlpaca@reddit
And saying "hurrdurr just close all the boat ramps" just shows how ignorant and unrealistic that segment is.
GhostofBeowulf@reddit
... Do you understand how a boat works?
How are you getting a boat into the water if not a ramp?
Most people don't keep smaller craft like this in the water, they bring them back and forth on trailers. Otherwise they would be covered in barnacles and need constant maintenance like a regular ship.
m8r-1975wk@reddit
Learn to accept defeat: https://leportdenice.com/activites/
https://www.barnes-provence-littoral.com/fr/2021/quartier-du-vieux-port-a-marseille-1408-732-0-0
MissingGravitas@reddit
This isn't some lake in Texas. Lots of places people keep their boat in the water, particularly if they don't have American McMansions with massive driveways.
Heck, even where I am in California nearly all the boats I see regularly are kept in slips.
ContextWorking976@reddit
Do you really think there aren't lakes in Texas with individual slips for private property owners? There are many lakes with this, and it usually requires a permit from the authority who controls the lake/river system. My county will send out a text message to every resident saying that boating is prohibited at the lake due to high levels and water releases. Ramps are closed, and anyone on the lake is stopped and cited by local PD.
MissingGravitas@reddit
Oh, I'm sure there are, but the idea of keeping boats out of the water in a coastal area is pretty laughable. Particularly in the case of a fire, which is an emergent event. It's like the stereotype of someone from Europe visiting the US and expecting to do both Disneyland and Yosemite in the same day.
Even if you seal off the marinas you may have any number of people coming in from outside the area, or who are already at sea. It'd be incredibly wasteful, not to mention an incredible inconvenience on however many hundreds or thousands of people that had plans or business elsewhere on the water that day.
Much simpler to just have a few coast guard RIBs in the area to shoo people who come too close.
GhostofBeowulf@reddit
Sure, some people keep their boats on their slips. Where they will get notifications that there are firefighting activities in the area and can't go out for the day.
I live in the state with quite literally the most boats in the country, Florida. We passed 1 million registered boats back in 2022.
The vast majority of boat owners take their boats in and out unless they live on the intracoastal. That doesn't necessarily mean bringing them to their houses either. They can easily rent dry storage to park them, or even park them at a U-haul or storage facility.
But for 95% of the people boating in the area, if you close the ramps and marinas there goes the majority of the traffic. Sure there are other ways will come in but you will significantly diminish their overall number, which is kind of the point...
ThrowAwaAlpaca@reddit
Keep displaying your ignorance it's entertaining
Impossible_Angle752@reddit
Locals would likely be aware of what is going on, either as part of an emergency action, or training program. At least enough to hear the planes and think to themselves 'I need to stay near the shore' or 'stay out of their area'.
Some random person unloading their boat for a day of cruising around likely won't know what is going on locally.
mtrayno1@reddit
And to just, you know, have some situational awareness
SwissMargiela@reddit
One time I was on a fishing charter near Miami, closer to the keys and a coast guard boat pulled up in the distance. The charter captain had us reel our lines in super fast and bolted from the spot. He said he couldn’t explain but he had an emergency to attend. He dropped us off at a different dock and got us Ubers back to our original dock.
I never know why he did that to this day. Was like 15 years ago.
MissingGravitas@reddit
That's pretty funny. My first guess would be an unlicensed charter op; the fines for that are not cheap.
Throwaway1303033042@reddit
“Possible captain deviation. Contact Reddit approach at 555-555-5555.”
Intergalatic_Baker@reddit
I do hope the French Police came down hard on that muppet…
StuckinSuFu@reddit
Seriously... this should be bare minimum a massive civil penalty if not criminal. Absurd behavior and completely reckless.
cytochrome_p450_3a4@reddit
On the plane’s captain or boat’s?
StuckinSuFu@reddit
the boat
hundreds_of_sparrows@reddit
Obviously the plane gets absolute priority but ELI5 how were the boat operators were supposed to know to avoid this area?
Atholthedestroyer@reddit
Boat should be impounded for a month (with corresponding impound fees)
RidingTrainsAround@reddit
$20 on this being the boat captains fault.
Axtdool@reddit
Unless things are different on french Waters, usualy on a boat you are supposed to give way to vessels on your starboard afaik. And iirc that do be including sea planes.
TropicalDepression-@reddit
According to international COLREGS, sea planes should give way to all other vessels while on the water (rule 18). While scooping water, they could be considered a "vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver" and be the stand on vessel, but while on their approach I would expect them to be the give way vessel. Apparently France has exclusion zones for scooping water so this could be different there. That said, I give as much room as I can to sea planes in general and would definitely do my best to stay away from firefighting planes. But if you're on a sailboat doing 5 knots, they'll be avoiding you more than you're avoiding them.
Interestingcathouse@reddit
Yeah that couldn’t be more wrong. A plane scooping water is in emergency mode. It gets priority over all others. Your pleasure craft doesn’t get priority over an emergency vehicle trying to fight fires and save lives. Same reason your Ferrari doesn’t get priority over a fire truck.
SyrusDrake@reddit
I'm pretty sure those sea planes are more treated like emergency road vehicles that kinda have priority everywhere.
Axtdool@reddit
Ah I see, good to know thanks.
Kevlaars@reddit
See I look at a water bomber different than a regular sea plane. To me it's the equivalent of a fire truck or ambulance.
On a road, if I see an emergency vehicle with it's lights on behind me, I get out of the way...I don't need a rule or law to tell me to get out of the way... I just understand that getting the fuck out of the way of emergency services is the right thing to do.
It's honestly a little fucked up that there are people shitty enough that we need to have that enshrined in law.
Axtdool@reddit
Well outside of getting corrected on the Details in another reply, what I wrote Before was basicly 'shouldn't the boat have had to get out of the way anyways?' as both of the fire fighting planes were making their approaches from the boats starboard Side. (Video is looking out the back of the boat)
But yeah, get out of the way of emergency vehicles.
And I mean out of the fucking way. So so so many idiots hitting the brakes hard like a deer in headlights when emergency vehicles try to get places. No it is not helpfull if you Stop on the country road because we have no way to pass you anyways Without driving into on coming traffic so Just fucking drive until there's an intersection to get out of the way. Also noone is gonna blame you for going a bit into an intersection on a red if the ambulance or fire engine behind you is blaring their Horn to get across that intersection from behind you.
Sorry for the rant. Just well, loads of recent Frustrations about just this topic.
Biuku@reddit
100%.
These planes are in emergency mode, scooping water to fight fires. A pleasure cruise needs to stay the hell out of their way.
TheCreepyPL@reddit
I'd raise it to $200
biggsteve81@reddit
Which is more than the fine for violating the rule (€130).
Danitoba94@reddit
That's not a fine. That's an admittance fee.
It should be way way more than that.
mechalenchon@reddit
Easy money. They make a low pass above the scooping corridor beforehand. The captain decided to stay for some reason
pepchang@reddit
Boater don't know throttles can go back
ThrowAwaAlpaca@reddit
Motor boats do require a license in France so he could get in trouble if the pilots report it. Or the coasties see the video. Probably just a stern warning unless it's a repeated offense but still.
PopperChopper@reddit
Someone got smoke in Vancouver harbour this year the day I was visiting doing this exact same stupid thing. Boating in a marked runway.
flamberge5@reddit
Too close? How about folks get the fuck out of their way so that they can safely take off?!
trapercreek@reddit
They likely have the right of way, but most amateur boaters know next to nothing about maritime law or rules.
-marcos_vom-@reddit
O Balu do Talesspin ?
lonememe@reddit
“I was there 3000 years ago…” thanks for unlocking that crazy old memory. Man, 80s and 90s cartoons were amazing.
-marcos_vom-@reddit
I liked it a lot too!
GetInZeWagen@reddit
I found it on Disney+ and gave it a watch out of nostalgia, it holds up great! There's an episode about trying to automate all the pilots and the pilots rebel and show how they're superior to the machines. I thought that aged quite well and is still relevant today. It's a good show!
Plus that theme song slaps
lonememe@reddit
Oh great, now i need to watch it. I feel like TaleSpin was in the same universe as Duck Tales but I have nothing to prove that. I just feel like they would be on TV after one another or something?
AdmirableCause4577@reddit
Plenty of room
gromain@reddit
Morons. Morons all the way. They always do a low pass before coming back to fill up, specifically to warn boaters to give way.
So those idiots didn't give a shit and almost caused a deadly accident.
ISTBU@reddit
It's like crossing the street on foot in Vietnam, or taking a motorcycle/car out for a track day. Just be predictable, the faster person will avoid you. There's trust in the assumed competence :)
NotIt2024@reddit
I’d say they’re really good at that, judging your speed, and knowing their speed… both are safe! I am jealous that I haven’t had a chance to see them in person!
F1451Dmenace@reddit
Wow
BarnytheBrit@reddit
If only there were clearly marked channels to avoid
MyDespatcherDyKabel@reddit
Ten thousand blue blistering barnacles
Gagethenotsogreat@reddit
Did anyone else immediately have the TailSpin theme start playing in their head?
zenprime-morpheus@reddit
Before I even knew what I was looking at!
Ashvega03@reddit
Absolutely
Brainchild110@reddit
They're busy. You're on holiday.
Get out of the way.
4runner01@reddit
I thoroughly understand the COLREGS and Exclusion Zones, but that second plane came unnecessarily close for the purpose of proving a point.
The pilots both had plenty of sea room and airspace to move their scooping path to their right.
I’d love to hear the cockpit recording of that scoop operation.
Inevitable-Click-129@reddit
Canadian made airplanes 😍
Owlcoholic_@reddit
Those pilots are some of the baddest of bad arses that wasn't close, that was just a Tuesday evening for this fella. /s
GoldenWillie@reddit
What are the rules on right of way here?
DarthDork73@reddit
Hmm, why are boats being allowed in waters being used by multiple huge waterbombers trying to save lives and property? Is their no consideration for the safety of the public and closing the waters from public boats going inside the scoop zone? The planes scoop water multiple times don't they?
gondias@reddit
Had something similar water skiing. Not fun at all
BenefitOfTheDoubt_01@reddit
FAR/AIM 91.115
In a crossing scenario the aircraft or vessel to the right, has the right of way.
The way I interpret that is, if the aircraft is about to land and before the boat crosses its path, the aircraft has the right of way.
We don't see the video leading up to this. The boater could have sped up to cross in front of the plane, then slowed down. If however, the boat was to the right to begin with, it would have right of way.
Either way, I'm not sure why the pilot wouldn't perform a go-around if above decision height.
simple-seb@reddit
Corsica
WldChaser@reddit
Seen a couple of near misses a few years ago in St Croix. There is a seaplane shuttle that flies out of Cyhristianstead harbor to St Martten. A couple of times while I was visiting the island. Idiots cruising arouhnd the hyarbor passed through the takeoff and landing zones as planes were taking off and landing. One plane had to wave off to avoid hitting the boat
BuukSmart@reddit
Why does it look like the boater is going as slow as possible!? There is almost no wake behind that boat, and it’s not a sailing vessel
thegree2112@reddit
Boater thinks “let’s do a temple run with the giant ass seaplane”. Stupid old man.
SirRobertClive@reddit
Safety training by air India
JodyGonnaFuckYoWife@reddit
It's funny when people die! hUrR dUrR
jawshoeaw@reddit
They almost became an urban myth!
akbushpilot@reddit
This was the pilot saying to kindly move.
LocalBeaver@reddit
Obviously rich morons in the way.
And people ask me why I despise people going there.
InevitableSong3170@reddit
I have been out on a sailboat in the caribean and metateranian. Cruise ships go around 15 knots and do sneak up on you pretty quickly, even when they look like they are miles away. So you are out there to stay clear. It looks like you have kept well out of the way and then BOOM they are right next to you.
This is the same thing but at 5x the speed.
clattygobshite@reddit
How much of a self-centered ignorant f*ck do you have to be to even consider taking your boat out there? It's not like you can't see them coming. And if you do see them, take your damn boat to shore and make space for the firefighters.
jtshinn@reddit
I doubt they are very loud at all on approach, then this boater probably (possibly) got fixated on the lead one. Not excusing it, but I see how it happens.
lupus_magnifica@reddit
Canadairs can be heard miles away and also their approach angle takes couple of minutes, enough to get away from their corridor this guy clearly didn't pay attention // source am croatian and we have seasoned firefighter squadron with no maritime indecents involving other crafts
Glum-Willingness-382@reddit
The plane is massive and has propellers
They heard and saw it coming for awhile before this.
jtshinn@reddit
I agree they were in the wrong place here. But I'll stand by that they could miss the plane on approach, doesn't matter what plane it is, most of the noise is behind it, on approach the idle engines aren't going to be loud at all. Someone else said they might have done a pass before coming in to scoop, if that is the case then the boater probably tried to get in there for the shot and they should lose their privileges on the water for that if so.
HamsterbackenBLN@reddit
In France they do a pass at low altitude on places where there is navigation to let you the time to make way. You have to go at least 500m away from where they passed and wait 1h after the last on passed (low altitude or charging) to go back.
clattygobshite@reddit
Maybe. But there's an active fire out there somewhere and the dude should have been aware of that. I've been to that region countless times and saw those planes a lot, since the fire hazard is huge down there. So, if I had a boat and knew that there's an active fire, maybe I'd check first. Just saying. I understand how you meant it though.
fuggerdug@reddit
I doubt they did it on purpose. Still a stupid mistake to make though.
Hot_Impact_3855@reddit
Tonnage rights go to the plane...
phatRV@reddit
the mofos are playing with fire. they knew the airplanes were flying yet they went out
Wen_Tinto@reddit
I see what you did there! Literally playing with fire. Those planes don't operate unless something is burning. Obvs not the boat captains chalet.
CPTMotrin@reddit
Too close? Yeah. The good news is the pilot had a good possibility that he saw the cross tracking boat. A little bump up on the throttle to extend his approach over that boat saved everybody’s ass.
pvtpile02@reddit
Calfire is going to calfire
ogunshay@reddit
That might also be true, but this is in France - the planes say Securité Civile on them
downforce_dude@reddit
Impossible! America is the only country in the world and within America only NY and CA matter
seanugengar@reddit
People make mistakes. It's human nature. But when you operate a vehicle, from a bike to an airplane, there are rules that need to be followed and the operator is accountable. In this scenario, I believe whoever was driving that boat, should get a fine.
Recipe-Agile@reddit
Go arounds are free lol
Goobygoodra@reddit
No way! that was a treat
Hamontguy1@reddit
Get off the water
ChiefTestPilot87@reddit
Can’t believe I’m saying this but, Boat shouldn’t play chicken on the runway.
DouglasPRthesecond@reddit
Enough to be discussed at debriefing time
42ElectricSundaes@reddit
“Ok, who needs clean underwear?”
Evil_Eukaryote@reddit
Never seen an incursion on the water haha
spezbot69@reddit
Idiots on parade. Hope their boat sunk
Intelligent_Bug_5881@reddit
“Oh yee of little faith.”
Pilot-Wrangler@reddit
How's that too close? Missed em didn't it?
theaircraftaviation@reddit
if they happened to slow down for any unforeseen reason, then it wouldn't miss. the entire point is the distance was way too close for comfort
figure0902@reddit
That's like someone saying "OMG I just got shot at!", and you going "Well it didn't hit you so what are you freaking out about?"
JimmyGz@reddit
Yikes yes waaaay too close lol.