My student tried to end us, literally!
Posted by TheOvercookedFlyer@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 511 comments
TL;DR: Student, who isn't keen on me, pulled the mixture mid-flight. I saved it. We landed. He never flew with me nor with anyone else in my flight school.
Apologies for the click-baity title but I could think of a better one.
Yesterday I was flying a routine pattern with a student I’d been working with for a few weeks, one who had made it fairly clear through attitude and body language that I wasn’t their favorite instructor. Still, I approached every lesson with the same professionalism, hoping to build trust through consistency and safety.
We were on the downwind leg for the runway as usual, abeam the numbers, just beginning to discuss the pre-landing checklist just like we did before many times in preparation for his solo flight. I was mid-sentence about configuring for landing when I noticed his hand abruptly go for the mixture and said "I'd like to see you recover from this!" and before I could react, he pulled it all the way out.
The engine sputtered instantly. I took control immediately and pushed the mixture back in while simultaneously verifying throttle and carb heat. The engine caught again, thankfully without issue. I stayed calm, kept the aircraft flying, and executed a quick approach to land.
I asked him, calmly but firmly, “Why did you pull the mixture?”
He shrugged and muttered something about “wanting to see what would happen.” I knew better it wasn’t curiosity; it was deliberate!
We landed safely, taxied back, and I quickly got out of thr airplane and fast walked to our chief pilot's office. A colleague met me halfway because he saw having engine issues, I briefly explained what happened and he confronted the student. Obviously he denied everything.
After we all cooled down, the student, our CFI, my colleague and I sat down in his office and while at first he denied everything, it didn't take long to confess that he did do it on purpose because he was tired of being instructed what do to, and I kid you not, especially from a woman.
He was promptly dismissed from the school and flagged as well. Never in my life would I have though something like this happen. I'm OK now and fortunately the weather is awful today and tomorrow so it will give me a chance to decompress and regroup. I'm just venting a bit here because I know most of you will understand.
Solid-Cake7495@reddit
I hope you reported him to the authority. I'm pretty sure that's grounds to revoke his medical.
thedondraco@reddit
Wow, there are some weird people out there. I’m glad that you are ok and that you were able to land safely. Don’t ever let that comment about you being a women get to you!
_Windows_95@reddit
Unbelievable, that student is definitely not the right fit to be a pilot.
Good work managing the situation.
TheOvercookedFlyer@reddit (OP)
From the first moment I met him, I had an eerie feeling about him.
B-Chaotic_Neutral@reddit
The first time I heard about cfis that carry while they instruct, I was confused. Crazy situations like this make it make more sense.
i_rub_differently@reddit
I would like those instructors to hold a AMA on this sub
The_CodeForge@reddit
Tomato_Head120@reddit
The Dalek check list
TheLastGunslingerCA@reddit
Sounds like you should keep a camera rolling in the cockpit from now on. I doubt this will happen again, but just in case you'll have evidence for attempted murder charges.
lifesalayover@reddit
Probably wouldn't result in any charges unless he said he was gonna kill them both out loud. Shit the dude that was shroomimg and tried to shut both motors down on that Horizon flight only got charged with reckless endangerment or something.
Guap-Zero@reddit
👀
Go_Loud762@reddit
Always listen to your inner voice.
biggestbroever@reddit
My therapist says not to listen to the voices inside my head tho
747ER@reddit
My inner voice is telling me to pull the mixture on final
vishnoo@reddit
as an instructor, it is hard to cut someone off on a feeling.
GuessAccomplished959@reddit
Cut the student before they cut your fuel!
Holiday-Valuable5873@reddit
Terrible advice. I assure you that racists are also listening to their “inner voice” and “uneasy feeling”.
the_interlink@reddit
Time to change her username to The Almost Overcooked Flyer!
GrimGearhead@reddit
ALWAYS listen to the instinct. If your gut days bad, then it probably is.
QuitsDoubloon87@reddit
But it might not be, your gut feeling is liekly right about something being off, but that something doesnt have to be sinister or deliberate.
backdoorjimmy69@reddit
Unless that voice is telling you to cut the fuel flow to your airplane
Patient-Grapefruit68@reddit
so you were the one with a pre-existing attitude towards him? weird
Far_Wallaby6058@reddit
so he was willing to risk his own life and kill you because you're a woman,and he felt that a woman should have not given him instructions.
as a man in his twenties I get frustrated and disappointed and how many scumbag men are in this world because imagine being so stupid and misogynistic that you would put your own life in danger because you thought you was proving a point.
NevadaCFI@reddit
One of the best pilots I have flown with is a woman in her 20s. Good job dealing with this situation, and yes, you are right to fire him as a student.
Cyrene_tries_lmao@reddit
Same, my favorite instructor is a woman in her 20’s. I think she’s genuinely one of the smartest people I’ve ever met. If someone’s qualified to be a pilot, who CARES what gender or whatever they are?
Particular_Heat2703@reddit
Right. Why would anyone give two shits if it's a woman? In fact, my fav instructor was my seaplane CFI. She was great...calming and talented.
SonoftheBread@reddit
I'm sorry you had to deal with him. Props to you.
CaptainsPrerogative@reddit
ALWAYS trust your gut!
71272710371910@reddit
Yeah, always trust that feeling. One of the instructors at the school I built my hours at got killed bc a suicidal freak decided to kill them both. After that, a strict no fly with people who concern you policy went into effect.
rburghiu@reddit
I'm so happy aviation usually does not help certain men fail upwards. That guy is a huge narcissist, which explains why he would take such risks on a whim. Literally psychotic
Mathev@reddit
Thank God he didn't try to do anything more drastic back then..
DaemonPrinceOfCorn@reddit
That was millions of years of evolution going 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
Mid_Atlantic_Lad@reddit
Or really anything with a modicum of responsibility. I don't think I'd feel much safer with such a person in charge of a big rig, or safety inspection, or managing a power grid.
Granite_burner@reddit
Or walking the streets.
“Don’t cross” light comes on. This guy shouts “no machine tells me what to do” and runs amok.
StarlightLifter@reddit
Second this. There is no way in fuck this malevolent dumbass ever needs to hold a cert.
dodexahedron@reddit
Or anything else dangerous, be it abstract or concrete.
no_on_prop_305@reddit
Possibly the biggest understatement ever
swurvipurvi@reddit
The kid shouldn’t even be riding a bike
Jolly_Line@reddit
Im honestly wondering where this fits into the hazardous attitudes. Do we need a new one? - Underbraked 😅
Glad you’re OK. Christ
majoranne@reddit
I was going to like your comment, but currently it has the perfect number of liked: 666
SassyPastor@reddit
Very well managed. Very surprising to hear the comment regarding being a woman - out of the entire story, it’s the only part I questioned, especially considering the (assumed) age of the individual. I’m glad you are safe and no one was hurt. Had he been soloing and decided to “see what would happen” it could have been disastrous
bankdank@reddit
Very much warrants a police report. This could have been tragic, was that his goal?
TealPotato@reddit
This might warrant police involvement, I would strongly consider calling them. I'd hate to see someone get hurt because of this psycho.
TheOvercookedFlyer@reddit (OP)
You're not the first one to tell me this. I am considering doing something about it.
Mwahaha_790@reddit
Consider harder. You could save the life of the next instructor or someone else.
itsvalxx@reddit
please report him to the cops and transport canada. he needs to be fully blacklisted
ScathedRuins@reddit
please call other local flight schools too to warn them about him
tomdarch@reddit
Canada is less lawsuit crazy that us in the US, but every country has privacy laws. I have to think that this circumstance absolutely justifies notification, but OP's school should consult with a lawyer to make sure the warning is done properly and doesn't expose them to too much legal risk.
Granite_burner@reddit
Reporting illegal acts to government authorities is not privacy protected. In a lot of cases it is mandated.
FujitsuPolycom@reddit
Hell, at least send an email. Anything
johnfkngzoidberg@reddit
I don’t know if Canada has FSDO, but I’d notify the FAA equivalent so they pull his medical and student certificate.
browsk@reddit
Yeah this is like obviously lack of self preservation type of thing that gets you banned from flying ever, or should
Granite_burner@reddit
It’s beyond lack of self preservation. It’s overt acting out expressing anti-authority attitude. “Tired of being told what to do”? Man, life is full of being told what to do. Trying to kill your self and whoever is telling what to do is not an acceptable response, no matter how much you don’t like it.
dodexahedron@reddit
It would certainly prevent you from getting a medical in the US.
generalraptor2002@reddit
It’s “a personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts”
Canadian_Psycho@reddit
https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/aviation-security/report-aviation-security-incident
I’m very very very much hoping OP takes more of this URL.
/u/TheOvercookedFlyer
Distinct-Ad5751@reddit
You should. He’s dangerous to other pilots and women.
sjgbfs@reddit
Please do. Do anything in your power to ensure this guy never flies again.
ZenHeat619@reddit
Think about the next person he does something like this to. You owe it to them.
flying-is-awesome@reddit
I would strongly recommend talking to your local FSDO about the student and their actions and mindset. They may revoke the students medical cert or student pilot cert and prevent them from flying at other schools.
therein@reddit
Please make sure to report it.
audrikr@reddit
Please do. Someone trying to kill someone for gendered reasons is rarely a one-off incident.
cinred@reddit
They will kill another instructor if you don't. You could actually be sued if you do not report.
shimakaze_kun@reddit
Please do it, if only for the sake of any instructors, aircrew, or (God forbid) passengers might otherwise be in the plane he is flying.
Reacting to interpersonal tensions and perceived slights with turning off the engine while flying could be a red flag for something tragic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot
bravogates@reddit
What OP describe was exactly what almost happened to the Horizon E175 back in 2023.
axl3ros3@reddit
Do it. Please. This is attempted murder ...manslaughter at least
DogeLikestheStock@reddit
For the benefit of everyone around him you ought to go to the police.
ArsenicArts@reddit
Girl, ffs he TRIED TO KILL YOU.
Report him!
ScienceBitch90@reddit
Please report him. He will hurt other people.
I'm not sure if you fully appreciate the gravity based on some of your responses, which is more than fair since you just lived through this, but that little shit just tried to murder-suicide you...
Square_Ad8756@reddit
I used to work in psych hospitals and found this post chilling. He absolutely needs to be reported.
Square_Ad8756@reddit
I would also wonder if you could be held liable if you don’t report this and he hurts someone or himself. Let’s call it like it is, this was attempted murder suicide. I don’t know how things work in Canada but in the US you are probably required to report this to transport Canada at the very least.
tomdarch@reddit
If he's prone to doing things like this, why did he start training to become a pilot?
It's a bad combination that makes me concerned he'll put himself in a similar situation in a different field. A police record could help to prevent that. I would be absolutely unsurprised if his next stop is to become a police officer or the military.
I have mixed feelings about him being charged, but when Joseph Emerson did something comparable because of a psychological break, he was criminally charged. This guy was not having a psychological break based on what you describe which is far worse.
Basic-Necessary-8053@reddit
Yes please call the police. This is absolutely a sociopathic person, and needs to learn they can’t do what they want anytime they want. Even if nothing happens it might scare the shit out of him that the police are investigating him. Honestly fuck people like this.
ek00992@reddit
He is going to end up harming someone if more isn’t done now
Now-Thats-Podracing@reddit
Stop considering and do something
Hengist@reddit
I am not usually one to advocate a drastic course, but in this case, I would strongly recommend police involvement, as well as informing Transport Canada. This was a deliberate, premeditated act, and while the engine thankfully kept running, there was every possibility the engine wouldn't hot restart and the result would have been a forced landing at best.
If this student was willing to do this to you, they are capable and willing to do it to others. God forbid this lunatic makes it all the way to the controls of a passenger airliner. PLEASE do not hesitate to make the appropriate reports. Your actions may well save many lives.
rivereagles999@reddit
Please do. People like this need to learn that their psychotic mentality has consequences.
coldnebo@reddit
I can’t imagine this wouldn’t disqualify his medical.
chephy@reddit
Oh, it absolutely would, if TC is convinced that he's mentally unstable. Which clearly...
HSydness@reddit
Mental health is taken very seriously, and this shows issues with mental health...
maximus_the_turtle@reddit
You should do it. This is a million red flags.
Nevermind04@reddit
When he finds his next victim, they may not be as lucky as you. I genuinely hope you do more than just consider it.
dworley@reddit
Stop considering and get off your ass.
You have a responsibility to report to the police, not a choice.
scooterboog@reddit
And I mean this with the greatest respect, but don’t just “consider” it.
If he takes someone else down because you didn’t pursue reporting this as high as it’ll go, how will you sleep at night?
vishnoo@reddit
I don't think it is open to your consideration.
you have a DUTY to get his medical pulled.
(or your School's Chief Pilot)
imagine if this happens again and the next instructor isn't able to recover
imagine if he has passengers and a woman passenger gets on his nerves?
satans_little_axeman@reddit
Would he have been in the plane with you to begin with if everyone else along his path in life had done something about him? Maybe, but maybe not.
I'd urge you to do this for the sake of the next woman who dares cross him with whatever expertise she holds.
tuckkeys@reddit
Yeah it’s definitely psychopathic behavior. It sounds like they desperately need psychiatric intervention.
Exotic_Army7887@reddit
Given the situation described, this is extremely alarming. The student is not a "fit and proper" person to operate an aircraft. A serious attitude to you as a female instructor will certainly lead to the same attitude to other women crew in the future. This is a fatality waiting to happen.
A prosecution for hazardous operation of an aircraft is warranted in a case like this. Phoning around the local flight schools is not enough.
Based on the circumstances described, This student is not fit to hold an ATPL.
-Cheebus-@reddit
Too many people stop at “considering” and then the offender goes onto hurt or kill someone for real, you may not be able to charge with attempted murder but there’s must be some kind of reckless endangerment or interfering with an aircraft charge he could get which would permanently bar him from getting an aviation job
slugworth1@reddit
If it’s not a plane he could find some other way to hurt someone. I urge you to file a police report.
Nix_Nivis@reddit
To me it doesn't read like the student wanted to outright kill the instructor (and inevitably die himself in the process).
But it sure was reckless, even though it sounds like he was confident the instructor would be able to recover. So something like reckless endangerment sure would stick. Possibly even attempted manslaughter, if death was something a reasonable person would suspect to be the outcome of this. But probably not outright murder.
And yes, I would go to the authorities with that incident and have them make something out of it. That guy sure is dangerous.
Granite_burner@reddit
“I’d like to see you recover from this” indicates intention to cause a crash.
tomdarch@reddit
I agree that it sounds like the guy did not specifically want to kill himself and the instructor, but at the same time, he absolutely did want to create a life-threatening situation for the instructor and that is very serious.
Nix_Nivis@reddit
Not contesting that, at all. But it doesn't make it attempted murder, was my point. Still possibly up to and including a felony.
coldnebo@reddit
I agree that students may not realize fully the risk of an engine out, especially if they feel like it’s not “real”.
but there’s just enough knowledge behind these actions to suggest he knew that pulling the mix was serious (something never done before) even if he didn’t fully understand the consequences.
and suddenly deciding to play instructor and reverse the roles isn’t normal, that’s a power play— it sounds like he may have been upset being told what to do / being corrected by his instructor all the time and suddenly snapped.
that’s already over the line for mental health issues, and then he immediately lied about it as well which tells me he knew what he did was wrong and he was trying to avoid consequences.
no bueno.
Lucky-Duck18656@reddit
Downwind abeam the numbers is an easy power off 180
RandomEffector@reddit
Yeah ok so this is like someone pulling a gun on you and then going “hahahaaa it’s not even loaded!”
Missing the point.
Lucky-Duck18656@reddit
I’m not missing the point. I’m just saying if you can’t deal with an engine failure downwind abeam the numbers then your stick and rudder skills need improvement
RandomEffector@reddit
Nope, still definitely missing the point, which to spell it out was not “do you have the l33t sk1llz as a pilot???” but “hey did this student maybe commit a criminal act?”
Lucky-Duck18656@reddit
Hey dumbass, I said it’s not cool to pull the mixture, so I get the point, it’s a criminal act, I also made a point that if you can’t land the plane in that situation then you suck at flying
RandomEffector@reddit
Damn shame you had to delete your whole account over this, stranger. Damn, damn shame.
DirtyHandsCleanMuny@reddit
If I'm the CFI, the police are absolutely getting involved. Cause I'm fighting him as soon as the prop stops and I get out of the aircraft.
dobr_person@reddit
Wouldn't you report to your local regulator (FAA) and ask them how to proceed? Can they issue penalties to someone who doesn't have a licence yet (i.e. add something to their record).
It certainly seems like something that needs to be reported as a 'risk event'.
Electrical-Bed8577@reddit
The TCCA certainly could effect some consequences for a student who sought to purposefully endanger crew, equipment and therefore the public on the ground. TCCA does have the authority and responsibility to prosecute
Chairboy@reddit
How much influence do you think they would have in this situation? Seems like it’d end at the border for this.
randylush@reddit
The person you're responding to probably didn't realize it took place in Canada, maybe didn't read the whole post.
Chairboy@reddit
I know, I was being dry.
anomalkingdom@reddit
Come on ....
DaemonPrinceOfCorn@reddit
Ah yes. Just a harmless prank!
anomalkingdom@reddit
Are you serious? A green student pulls the mixture, and they should be charged with attempted murder? What kind of reality do you people live in? Ridiculous mob mentality.
DaemonPrinceOfCorn@reddit
he did it on purpose.
Mountain_Fig_9253@reddit
You aren’t being dramatic and here is why. Let’s say OP couldn’t restart the engine and in the forced landing OP dies and psycho student lives. If all the facts were known psycho student would at the very least be charged with manslaughter, and likely a higher charge.
OP’s ability to save herself doesn’t negate the crime that psycho student committed.
bhalter80@reddit
If that happened student would say instructor said "hold my beer" and pulled the mix and how he was the hero for pulling it off as well as he did
vipck83@reddit
I don’t think that’s dramatic at all. He could have easily gotten them killed and I can’t believe he would know that.
s1xpack@reddit
Delete might and replace Police with authorities.
This is not someone who should be in a plane.
tomdarch@reddit
And not someone who should have, for example, a uniform, badge and gun.
mmmfritz@reddit
As a student who had to figure out the mixture thing by myself, I’ve always wondered why it’s not talked about beforehand.
backflipbail@reddit
What do you mean you had to figure out the mixture thing by yourself?? Surely at the end of each lesson you ran through a shutdown checklist which includes pulling the mixture which very obviously has the effect of stopping the engine.
mmmfritz@reddit
That’s how I asked the question, I thought huh this thing is pulled down when we shut down the engine, I wonder if the engine can shut down mid flight if doing the same.
Also it’s not completely obvious when learning, there’s more than just one thing on our checklist when shutting down the engine.
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
with all due respect... yes it is. it's extremely obvious that pulling the mixture kills the engine
rckid13@reddit
Your instructor isn't going to spoon feed you everything. If you have never read a single book that explained what the mixture does then you probably don't have enough interest in flying to pursue it as a hobby or career.
SJCritic@reddit
I am US-based, but from what I know about Canada, I would be talking to Transport Canada and the RCMP. In the US, this sounds like textbook "careless and reckless" operation (FAR 91.13). I see that Canada has CAR 602.01.1 which sounds similar. This person does not belong anywhere near an airplane. Also, I'm not sure what the regulations are in Canada with respect to student pilots and medical certification, but I might tip off Transport Canada or whomever is responsible for issuing medicals. It might not help on day one showing up at a new flight school, but if it's similar to the US, they'd presumably want to see a medical certificate before they let him solo. If he can't produce one, that's one more roadblock keeping him away from getting into another airplane. At best, this sounds like a mental health issue of some kind or another, and one that could have fatal consequences for other people in the air or on the ground.
Canadian_Psycho@reddit
Air carriers in Canada are required by law to report a threat to aviation safety to transport. I’ve posted the link that describes this responsibility and allows for requiring a couple of times and hopefully OP takes note.
vishnoo@reddit
There is no "might" it should be the responsibility of the instructor (or in the instructor's code of conduct.)
if this guy flies into a building "to see what happens" it could have been stopped
United-Trainer7931@reddit
God I hate Reddit ‘attempted murder’ accusations
SparrowFate@reddit
Probably not attempted murder. But perhaps criminal mischief or some other operating crime. Attempted murder is gonna be a hard sell for pulling the mixture.
CaptainRelevant@reddit
Reckless endangerment.
Future_Tackle6617@reddit
More likely unlawful interference of an aircraft.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-77.html
FlamingoCalves@reddit
I agree. He honestly sounds like someone who probably drowns cats on the weekend or has girls locked in his basement. Absolute psycho.
OkExplanation401@reddit
In the US, interfering with the safety of the flight is a federal offense, if I'm not mistaken. I am sure Canada has similar laws.
m_mensrea@reddit
I have to ask, given what the student said about being told what to do by a woman. What was his ethnicity?
EngrJezooMD@reddit
Holy shit you were teaching a psycho the whole time. Glad she was flagged and may her hands never touch any plane, car or anything else that would harm other people.
DisregardLogan@reddit
Ok, two thoughts:
He does not need to be flying. The fact he acted abruptly and with harmful intent is bad enough. Even if he didn’t know what a mixture does, that’s not excuse to threaten your life for it.
I’d recommend you call the local police and report what happened. It could be some sort of mental behaviour vent of what could happen later.
ApoTHICCary@reddit
Per OP, the student was close to solo’ing. He absolutely knew what the mixture does. At the very LEAST, he knows pulling it killed the engine because that’s done at the end of every flight to shut it down. The argument could be made that he did not understand the restart procedure, especially how quickly the situation he caused could become critical at traffic altitude.
The action was absolutely intentional. The repercussions might not have been throughout, but that does not excuse the blatant and brazen malicious intent. Filing charges might not stick, but it’ll certainly be a black mark on his record along with being terminated from the flight school for his actions. The more documentation the FAA has, the less likely he will be back in the seat of an aircraft in the future.
primalbluewolf@reddit
If the idea is to argue that his proposed lack of understanding meant that he didnt understand how serious it is, that's a no-sell on multiple grounds. The sole thing allowing him to manipulate controls of an aircraft without a licence to do so is the direction of a flight instructor. Doing so expressly against instructions to do so is not just breaking school rules, its illegal.
Actually thinking it through in my jurisdiction the kid definitely would be liable for a pretty big fine... and I think possibly the owner of the flying school, technically? The CASRs are fairly dumb with "strict liability" peppered throughout in places that make no sense.
It is expressly against instructions: almost every school is big on positive transfer of controls, verbal "my aircraft/controls" or similar.
Well, it shouldn't be critical. For one, unless there is a mechanical failure of the aircraft, it should restart smoothly in that scenario. Very simple engines, you've only interrupted one of the three things required. Fuel, air, spark. Add the fuel back in, having changed none of the others, engine should fire up again smoothly. If it doesnt, its either a much higher horsepower aircraft than an initial student should be in, or there is a mechanical fault with the aircraft and it should not be used for training initial students.
Two, its circuits - you should be able to, as an instructor, land back on the runway from an engine failure in most places in the circuit as a matter of course - low upwind excepting, of course.
This is not to excuse the seriousness of the offence- it seems at best to have been a very poor way to venture frustration, but quite possibly much worse / more malicious. This is more to question the statement made about seriousness of an engine restart mid-air, because for virtually any civil light trainer, it should be a non-event.
Granite_burner@reddit
His comment “I'd like to see you recover from this!" shows that he did not think it would be a non-event, and expected and intended an unfavorable outcome.
ApoTHICCary@reddit
I agree. I should have worded it better as I was mostly targeting the primary comment that maybe the student did not know what mixture does. As I followed up, there is no excuse for his actions, at the very most he might not have understood the implications. Had the student prevented OP from relinquishing control, the situation could have had a much different outcome.
So I agree this incident should be filed, even if OP landed safely. Such deliberate and brazen actions should not have further access to aircraft for the foreseeable future.
Granite_burner@reddit
OP reported he said "I'd like to see you recover from this!" before he pulled it (the mixture) all the way out.
He absolutely knew what he was doing, and what the consequences would be.
Stop making excuses for a psycho.
coldnebo@reddit
yeah in that phase of training the instructor is usually testing the student “you just lost the engine, tell me what you do”, etc. in prep for solo. also they tend to be more critical and less complimentary/helpful because by this point you should be able to do these things on your own.
so I can imagine that if this guy’s attitude was not in the right place he probably took criticism poorly and personally.
this sounded like a power play to reassert himself “oh yeah, see how YOU like it!”
you’d have to find a psychologist to assess the reasons, but any way you slice it, I don’t think that guy is safe to fly.
outworlder@reddit
This is the most charitable interpretation we can think of. "You have been giving me a hard time, right back at you, let's see you do it!". So that would put him firmly in the 'reckless douche without impulse control' category, rather than murderer.
Still bad enough that he would deserve a new entry in the 'hazardous attitudes' list, named after him.
Inevitable_Street458@reddit
If it gets classified as a mental episode, that will probably ground him faster and for longer then a criminal report. Losing his medical would solve this issue rather neatly.
Granite_burner@reddit
But leave him walking the streets to try to kill somebody a different way next time he doesn’t like being told what to do.
DisregardLogan@reddit
That’s what I figured. The FAA doesn’t mess around as we all know
keskillia@reddit
Good on you for keeping control during this dangerous situation. I’m sure the recent B-2 mission used a female pilot and many major airlines use female pilots. This guy should be grounded from all flying including any fare paying flight. Actually make it no trains nor buses nor taxis as well. Take away his shoes also because it seems like he doesn’t deserve to go anywhere by any means.
Ashamed-Charge5309@reddit
Hill AFB in Layton Utah has female pilots for the F35 demo team
alilbitalexisss@reddit
Welp new fear unlocked
shart-tank69@reddit
I knew an instructor that died from This exact scenario. The student lived and sued the flight school. Scary shit.
ThatLooksRight@reddit
Damn. And wow.
On the plus side, you have an amazing story where you can weave in “Aviate, navigate, communicate” and WHY the aviate step is the most important. You kept your composure and got back home.
Also, F that guy right in the A.
TheOvercookedFlyer@reddit (OP)
TBH, if he didn't said those words, I would've probably realised a bit too late that he full-leaned the mixture. At least he gave me a heads up.
ScathedRuins@reddit
It's also concerning that as you say in your post his attitude may have been brough on by the fact that you are a woman. Please really consider going to the police with this, it has to have some consequences even if it's just a police scare at his front door with his parents, he needs to realize that it is absolutely not OK.
Especially after seeing shows like Adolescence put a spotlight on this kind of increasingly rising and terrifying behaviour.
_BaldChewbacca_@reddit
The police for sure, and I'd 100% escalate this with TC. This is literally a criminal offense. Not escalating this would frankly be negligent. Interfering with the safe operation of an aircraft is serious shit
Secret-Constant-7301@reddit
Isn’t it attempted murder as well?
maethor1337@reddit
There’s no evidence he wanted this to end with anyone’s death, and the fact that he was in the plane would definitely be brought up by the defense team.
Look at some lesser felonies. Recklessly endangering safety with careless disregard for human life, common law assault, and don’t forget that FAR 91.13 says “no person”, not “no PIC”.
So I’d report this to the FSDO as well.
Granite_burner@reddit
The statement “I’d like to see you recover from this” implies skepticism about successful recovery, demonstrates intent, and implies that intent was for an unfavorable outcome.
Don’t look for reasons to excuse his behavior. Hold him accountable.
maethor1337@reddit
I’m not excusing his behavior, and gosh, good luck getting /s tone of voice admitted in a murder trial.
dodexahedron@reddit
This was Canada, but I'm sure they have essentially the same reg for that.
dodexahedron@reddit
Reckless endangerment at least.
Pilotmom3403@reddit
Innocent people on the ground can also be killed. Pilots need to stay aware of that issue and try to self-regulate who gets licensed to fly. The non-flying public doesn’t like reports of people being killed in their homes by plane crashes. That is very different from someone making an informed decision about going flying and killing themself. I would agree that getting the authorities involved is an ethical duty. A small aircraft was deliberately crashed into a building in San Antonio in the past by someone having a mental health crisis so it has happened (not to even mention 9-11). I was just reading about the ethical duty of university professors to participate in “gatekeeping” who gets licensed to be a professional mental health counselor. This is similar, you are helping to protect the public from people who are not emotionally qualified to have a pilot’s license. And sounds like this young man needs mental health care - that would probably be what a court of law would order if given the chance. Might be the best thing that ever happened to him.
blackinthmiddle@reddit
I agree 100%. He should never be allowed to control a plane ever and a police report helps insure this. And yeah, every single fight school should know who this crazy person is.
vishnoo@reddit
A formal police report will at least come in handy after he kills himself.
FujitsuPolycom@reddit
Or someone else and the last CFI to fly with him was nearly killed too, but didn't report it.
OP, it just makes the situation worse, but i think you need to report this person or inquire about it, at least.
Sorry this happened, that's scary...
der_innkeeper@reddit
Well, at least he voiced the murder plan.
Please report it. You have multiple witnesses to his confession.
tekmailer@reddit
…and the other A if he’s American!!
glibsonoran@reddit
Maybe we can add "carburate" to that in this case.
dodexahedron@reddit
"Unable carburete. Skyhawk 69420 is fuel injected."
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
I’m a prosecutor. I suggest you call the police. Let them decide whether there’s something here that they want to pursue. This is not your decision. It’s a public safety question.
NucleativeCereal@reddit
A report to the FAA might trigger action against his medical cert - this isn't mentally sound behavior and hopefully they would look into it.
txdrew91@reddit
You have a great interview story
Granite_burner@reddit
It is not clear what you mean when you say “flagged”.
If I were in your shoes I’d make sure it was reported everywhere it could legitimately be reported. For one thing that raises a clear issue of mental instability that possibly affects their eligibility for a medical certificate. It could be considered an attempt at self-harm, justifying intervention by medical professionals. It’s not clear but could be viewed as an attempt to cause you physical harm.
It seems clear they are very irresponsible, arguably to the point of mental illness. That’s too serious to let them walk into some other flight school and endanger folks again.
blimpmech@reddit
Relax it’s not that big of a deal
adDashy@reddit
Report to the police (attempted murder suicide)
moringaoil@reddit
Been there done that
Why-R-People-So-Dumb@reddit
A good nudge to all of the local aviation medical examiners might not be a bad plan. Just gotta fail that medical once to get set back quite a bit.
Glad you are safe.
VariationUpstairs931@reddit
What an ass!! I am glad you were able to take control and land safely. That person should be put on “no-fly” list as well.
Hemmschwelle@reddit
It's okay for the instructor to kill the engine on downwind, but it is bad when an impulsive student does it. It's an example of 'poor impulse control'. It's borderline normal to have the impulse to kill the engine, but it is deranged to actually kill the engine. Lots of teens have poor impulse control, but they grow out of it. Some individuals never mature.
During my recent flight review the instructor released the tow rope (glider aerotow) at 800 AGL, from a position where even an abbreviated rectangular left hand pattern was impossible. I made a diagonal heading towards the numbers, then turned parallel to the runway, then made a 180 steep turn onto final. It was fun. I was too low to make standard right hand pattern landing from that position.
Glider instructors 'pull this shit' all the time because it's a matter of when the tow rope breaks one day, so normal training. My airplane instructor has had five career engine failures in small plane, so he's always asking me 'can you make a field if the engine stopped right now?' We fly an antique 1941 plane, so engine failure is to be anticipated.
TheVengeful148320@reddit
I don't know what kind of fixed wing instructor you're flying with but all the ones I've flown with "kill the engine" by bringing the throttle to idle, not actually shutting the engine off. Because if you shut the engine off there is no guarantee it will restart and if you botch the approach with the engine at idle it's a learning moment. With the engine shut off the only people learning from it is whoever reads the accident report on your fatal crash.
Hemmschwelle@reddit
I thought it was obvious that that is what I meant by 'killing the engine'.
TheVengeful148320@reddit
Ah, okay. Sorry for the misunderstanding. There are also some funny stories of students pulling the mixture accidentally. One of my instructors told me about a student who was starting a descent from 7,500 over a major downtown area and went for the carb heat but started to pull the mixture instead. The engine started to cough and he quickly put the mixture back in and the engine came back. My instructor said he's never seen someone come so close to pissing themselves.
Hemmschwelle@reddit
I know a married couple of flight instructors. One of them was a student of the other (before they started dating). One day the instructor told the student to pull the throttle to idle. The knob and wire pulled right out of the instrument panel.
Dark_KingPin@reddit
That’s insane, glad you’re alright.
It does make you wonder if there’s a pattern with male students trying to pull this psycho shit with female instructors. I remember a story on here a while back of a student who specifically asked for a female instructor and tried to do a murder suicide.
Definitely could be just a coincidence but who knows.
yoda690k@reddit
It's in Canada, the country that opened borders to be nice in contrast while Trump restricted immigration. I have $100 that says I know the background of the student
Gusearth@reddit
i wouldn’t be surprised if this has something to do with andrew tate style “alpha male” influencers taking hold on gen z and gen alpha
Status-Hat-9012@reddit
You may need to dig deep and look at what you're doing wrong. Based on your other posts about losing all your students, your are definitely putting something out there that people don't like. I telly kids all the time, if it's always someone else, it's probably you.
Doesn't excuse what your student did, but if you really care, you'll do some soul searching!!!
jbschwartz55@reddit
That’s odd. My instructor used to do this all the time, without notice, for the same reason: to see what I would do.
Patient-Grapefruit68@reddit
the student was completely in the wrong, but OP has not said anything about the nature of her instructing, or given any specific examples of their interactions—just said that he obviously doesn’t like her 🤔. i could be totally wrong, but maybe OP taunted or otherwise bullied the student.
helghax@reddit
I couldn't imagine if he made it to a commercial job and his captain was a woman. He probably crash the plane.
madaboutallthat@reddit
As another female flight instructor, I've had male students refuse to listen to what I'm saying as well, so I empathize with you. Glad you're okay!
runawayscream@reddit
Attempted murder, attempted manslaughter instructor and himself at least.
I would strongly consider legal action. If nothing else get his admission on record and make sure he never flies. Ever.
Siouxpilot93@reddit
Ya, I’d be calling your equivalent of a FSDO and making sure he doesn’t fly anymore.
jackslookinaround@reddit
I lived in Boulder Co back in the late 80s while attending CU. My father flew his own 310R for business travel so I’d flown with him on many occasions and maintained an interest in general aviation. I recall an incident in perhaps 87 or 88 when a student committed suicide and in the process killed his flight instructor crashing their plane during a training flight into a home in Boulder. Lots of humans are completely useless bags of shit and should be treated as such. Sounds like this guy needs to be named and prosecuted.
MuditaPilot@reddit
are you going to report him to the TCCA?
barkingcat@reddit
To be honest, it sounds like this person is studying to be a terrorist, and used you to get experience about what happens If mixture is pulled. it’s like a beta test for him to get used to the process so he can do it for real the next time, to get a feel for how much to do to make sure the pilot can’t recover. Now he knows that it’s not enough to pull mixture and needs a 2nd process to kill the engine.
That-Yak-9220@reddit
Great work managing the situation, fellow Canadian instructor. Now, what is this person's name so we can blacklist him from our school as well?
Quietgoer@reddit
Wow what an absolute melter
ejsanders1984@reddit
Id have a hard time not going to jail for my actions after on the ground after that.
earthgreen10@reddit
should we every practice pulling out the mixture with consent of the CFI rather than simulating it?
TheVengeful148320@reddit
As I mentioned in another comment the general reason we use throttle to idle rather than mixture out is that there is no guarantee you'll be able to restart the engine. It's basically another layer of protection.
Mazer1415@reddit
I flew with a fed who did that to a CFI candidate down in FL. The guy busted his ride. I’d have filed a complaint with the FSDO. The gouge I got was when he simulates the engine failure, designate a field and immediately drop the gear. He doesn’t like the gear horn. WTF?
EducationalLie6494@reddit
I had a student who suddenly started screaming at me mid-field downwind, saying he wanted everything to end. He aggressively pushed the nose down, and I immediately took control of the aircraft, shouting “My controls!” I landed as quickly and safely as possible, exited the plane, and told him, “You just made the biggest mistake of your aviation career.”
I immediately called the police and reported the incident to the school owner. She expelled him from the program on the spot. I also reported the incident to the FAA so that he would never be able to obtain a medical certificate again, i would strongly suggest you do the same thing you never know if the other CFI will be as lucky as you what if he does it in the middle of the upwind with no runway available?, we need to make sure this people never get to touch the controls never again!
No_Water9929@reddit
I was just about to ask, certainly the Canadian version of the FAA has some reporting mechanism for this?!
perfect_fifths@reddit
That sounds scary af. I’m glad you’re ok!
Big_Bad2876@reddit
Glad you’re safe! My goodness that’s horrible that happened to you. As a student pilot myself, that just goes against every moral and professional element with just in living life let alone completing flight school.
Thankfully you banned him and now he’s got the scarlet letter of never being able to fly again.
saml01@reddit
What did you tell his mom when she picked him up?
tomdarch@reddit
109% he made up some insane lies to his family about why he was kicked out.
Main_Option6346@reddit
I’ve had students pull it by accident thinking it was the throttle but never on purpose that’s crazy glad ur ok
Jay_Ge90@reddit
He needs psychiatric evaluation. He wanted to see what would happen? Do it on a simulator. That’s what they’re for. My instructor pulled the mixture on me, but it wasnt out of the blue. He explained what would happen, and we were at the end of downwind. Made it to the runway really comfortably.
oldtreadhead@reddit
I would have chucked his ass out of the aircraft sans parachute. Oops, he failed to belt in...
Scottzilla90@reddit
Did you warn Transport Canada or CSIS? He could go on to do that elsewhere!
Slappy_McJones@reddit
What an idiot! I will never understand why taking instruction from a female flight instructor is such a big deal for some people. I am sorry he happened to you. My primary instructor was a woman and I was lucky to take instruction from such a bad ass and skilled pilot.
perfect_fifths@reddit
Some religions forbid contact with women who aren’t their wives.
Slappy_McJones@reddit
Good point. Maybe it was a religious thing? I hope not.
tomdarch@reddit
I don't know why you're being downvoted. The thing is that ultra-Orthodox is a fairly extreme, obvious example (not only because of the dress code.) One problem we face in "the West" is how there are many not-obvious people who range from "only" seeing women as second class to the people who truly hate all women.
perfect_fifths@reddit
Yes. The guy could have just been a bad person, period
night_flight3131@reddit
Then 1) as other people have said, I don't see how there's a feasible long-term fit for aviation. But let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they want to be a private pilot and just fly for fun. Then
2) Don't agree to go up with the woman. Giving her attitude (or a mixture cut) is not the correct reaction. I have plenty of friends who take Sabbath very seriously, and so they make sure their employers know that they are absolutely unavailable for Friday nights and Saturdays. They don't agree to work on Saturdays and then try to set the building on fire.
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
Some religious people should fuck off
"Actually being sexist is part of my religion so it's okay" get real. if your religion says "I have to be a piece of shit" then you should find another religion (remember, believing in stories is free, and you can always choose another set of random made up bullshit to believe in!)
perfect_fifths@reddit
Yeah, I agree with you.
StoutFlier@reddit
This! Was this student from a foreign country or was he a member of one of those “religions”? Context is important.
Possible-Strain-5836@reddit
Holy yikers.
Sutekiwazurai@reddit
Then don't get into a career that is potentially global in nature where you WILL encounter women. Stay in your country, stay in your community, find jobs there. There is no way to "reasonably accomodate" someone who cannot be around women aside from their wives.
z3roTO60@reddit
Not sure how you’d be a pilot then if you can’t communicate with ATC / uncontrolled airfields. When 50% of the population is female, you’re absolutely going to bump into women professionally. If anyone has an issue with that, perhaps living under a rock would be preferable
Chairboy@reddit
Those dudes are here too, if this was FB you’d see their shitty laugh reacts in places that make it clear how they think
Random61504@reddit
My discovery flight instructor was a woman and she was really cool. I didn't end up going to that school for other reasons, but I wanted to, because she was really fun to fly with. I have not flown with a woman at my current school, but I have had a few sim lessons with some and I haven't met one that I wouldn't want to fly with. No idea why someone would be so upset to be taught by a woman.
Apart_Claim_5918@reddit
Honestly that’s attempted murder, lock him up I say
TheScarlettHarlot@reddit
That’s practically unbeatable. What the actual fuck is wrong with people?!
swiss_k31@reddit
Non western cultures dont take well today kind of feminine leadership
chromaticactus@reddit
Yep. Saw Canada and knew immediately what happened.
DarkestStar77@reddit
Incels are cropping up more and more, especially in rural areas. I have 3 daughters, and have had to physically remove boys from my property twice once they flipped the incel switch. It's disturbing how radicalized it's becoming in young men.
I never finished my training, couldn't afford it, but my first instructor was a really wonderful woman. The second one was this grumpy middle aged guy that watched full metal jacket too many times. I much preferred my first instructor, but she got a full time gig with Porter, and that was that.
tomdarch@reddit
Non-aviation, but what do you mean about had to remove them from your property once they flipped the incel switch?
centerpuke@reddit
Probably worth writing this up and sending it to fsdo
IvyUnicorn@reddit
That’s a conversation to be had with Transport Canada, if it hasn’t already been.
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
You did a great job! Be proud of your abilities and intuition and press on!.
smart_bear6@reddit
That's a hijacking.
Routine_Importance83@reddit
Student pulls mixture on me he’s catching hands and an FAA flag
CoconutEducational16@reddit
🚨🚨🚨🚨 lock that boy up
msct1835@reddit
Make sure other flight schools are made aware of this.
who-tf_knows@reddit
Wow, that’s crazy. Sorry you had to go through that, but it sounds like you handled it with complete professionalism
QuirkyHighway3653@reddit
Can you blame the guy? I wouldn’t want a woman telling me what to do either, inferior as they are 🤷♂️🤷♂️
ThePurpleUFO@reddit
I would find him away from the airport where there were no witnesses and punch him in the face, and that would be the end of him.
mingocr83@reddit
Hope you sue this bastard for attempted homicide.
Impressive-Ad3348@reddit
Yes!
Historical-Pin1069@reddit
Which province?
smucek007@reddit
too much tiktok and too little parenting. possible psychological problems. it's becoming more common these days
Ok_Tale7071@reddit
So glad you’re ok! That is totally messed up! Maybe this can be a teaching moment for all of us. I’m just studying for the written exam. By pulling the mixture, he cut off the fuel. But since you pushed the mixture back in, you reinstated the fuel flow, which is why the engine sprang back to life. Is that what happened?
okiharaherbst@reddit
Abeam the numbers and at circuit altitude is 1-1 how we train glide approaches here.
maximusgibus@reddit
Was this student perchance from a foreign country? India perhaps? If I’m wrong call me a racist all you want, but if I’m right, well, then we (as CFI’s) need to have the uncomfortable conversation about the cultural attitudes of international flight students.
walterzingo@reddit
It’s a fair question but we must be vigilant to ensure we don’t confuse causation and correlation. My upbringing could be influential, but not necessarily so.
Fair however because there is growing body of official accident investigations that identify authority gradients and gender issues as causative. I haven’t googled it recently but I think a Katmandhu ATR? crash was partly attributable to this.
xthrowaway25@reddit
Does that count as attempted murder?
0_o_x_o_x_o_0@reddit
Genuine question how is this not an arrest-able offense? Like if I’m driving with someone and they maliciously impair the vehicle, including possibly killing me, I would try to get them in hella trouble.
AnarchyCan1@reddit
$100 says he's a "new Canadian"...
The country is in the toilet with increasing numbers of fools like this who see women as beneath them.. I can't imagine why.......................... Import the third world.
Report him to TC as a minimum.
Chairboy@reddit
Check your shoes, looks like you stepped in some bigotry and it stinks
maximusgibus@reddit
How does it feel to be ratioed lol. There’s a huge difference between living in a fairy tale fantasy where we all hold hands and sing kumbaya and gaslight ourselves into thinking we’re all the same, and the real world, where’s there’s tens of thousands of different cultures, each with their own unique values
AnarchyCan1@reddit
I'm not bigoted. I just live in the real world, where common sense shows having anywhere up to 25% of the population, all imported un-vetted, unskilled, third world mindset folks, causes societal issues. I'm sure Canada is just about to fix all these issues, right?
But let's not let facts get in the away of virtue signalling. I'm sure every country facing these problems, with the same cause, are all just coincidence.
Plus here's the thing with your witty retort, you're saying I'm a bigot. Well if I was, calling me one isn't going to upset me now is it.....
Chairboy@reddit
This is the textbook statement of bigot. You… You understand that they don’t ever think that they’re bigoted, you guys all think that you “simply have common sense“.
vishnoo@reddit
sure, but he's not wrong.
I've lived in 5 countries on 3 continents, and 10 years ago Canada was BY FAR the most equitable in its treatment of women in society.
and this has regressed.
As an immigrant myself I can tell you that immigrants integrate just fine into society, and learn what is acceptable in the new society very fast, but if too many come at once, there is no "acceptable in the new society."
if you want to see stories of women saying that if they wear a t-shirt in the summer they get groped head on over to r/connestoga
ZdenaVoda123@reddit
Not for yourself but for other people, please take every legal action possible to make that guy never sit behind the controls of any airplane in the world. That's fucking unbelievable. Props for landing safely and not freaking out right then and there.
airbetch11@reddit
W..t..f..!!! Glad you’re okay!
_Echo_9@reddit
"especially from a woman" tf? We only have old near death guy instructors where I fly, what is he complaining about
Psychological-Card15@reddit
complaining about a woman being in a position higher than his, which for many people is a big blow to their ego
12345NoNamesLeft@reddit
I don't know anyone willing to kill themselves because they don't like women.
Religion of peace?
Stock_Information_47@reddit
The student is an idiot.
You're an idiot for posting something like this that can be so easily linked back to you.
itsCamaro@reddit
Is there anything authorities could have done? Seems like a slap on the wrist he was allowed to just leave after that.
EvilMorty137@reddit
Wow that’s wild. My CFI at my flight school was a woman and she was the best instructor there by a long shot. It could have been because she was 50 years old vs all the 20-22 year old CFIs who didn’t have any risk awareness
GOlidus14@reddit
Made me nauseous just reading this. Take it from me when I say people have died from much less. Your life was in his hands, if only for just a second… sickening
No_Mathematician2527@reddit
First time?
Been there, it's not as dramatic as your making it. Still it's not exactly a fun time but that's literally why you are there.
To stop students from killing themselves.
_-Cleon-_@reddit
"it didn't take long to confess that he did do it on purpose because he was tired of being instructed what do to, and I kid you not, especially from a woman."
How often does that happen to you, exactly? 🙄
No_Mathematician2527@reddit
I've heard the first part a couple times. Always fun when the person paying you to teach them complains that you're telling them what to do too often.
Quick guess? This particular student doesn't want to fly, there are outside forces making him learn something they don't actually want to. I've been through it with kids of pilots.
TheOvercookedFlyer@reddit (OP)
I've had students pull on the mixture before but never have I had one who muttered "I'd like to see you recover from this"! whilst looking at me and pulling the mixture at the same time. It wasn't a simple mistake, it was full-on, looking at me and pulling it out at the same time.
No_Mathematician2527@reddit
I ground looped a maule once when the airplanes new owner kicked the left rudder pedal as hard as he could.. Just as the wheels touched down.
He wanted to see what would happen. Idiot
12477@reddit
Agreed. It is the maliciousness of this instance which sets it apart.
I'm glad that you are okay and would echo the calls of others to involve authorities (Transport Canada, RCMP or others) to ensure this individual does not place another instructor at risk.
teamcoltra@reddit
A student, with at least a few weeks of experience and has at least been taught the dangers of low altitude stalls and also what the mixture does, intentionally pulls the mixture to stall the plane at low altitude?
If you have students who are regularly intentionally trying to cause you harm, you might want to check that out because that's certainly not normal.
If the guy was like "whoops I panicked", I get it. Still maybe not a great candidate to be a pilot but people do stupid stuff when they are scared. That's not what happened here.
No_Mathematician2527@reddit
Had the student wanted to cause her harm. He would have punched her in the face.
Students are idiots, they do idiot things.
Gandor@reddit
It's one thing if a student accidentally grabs mixture instead of throttle, another if they're trying to kill you on purpose.
No_Mathematician2527@reddit
"I wanted to see what happens" is not trying to kill someone.
Had he wanted to die, he easily could have done so. Just slam the yoke forward.
You probably feel it's dangerous to lean cut the engine in flight. I don't.
s-mores@reddit
Are you all right? Do you need a hug?
MapleKerman@reddit
Ragebait
Jacketel@reddit
This reads like fanfiction
Limp_Bar_1727@reddit
/r/thathappened
Able-Swing-6415@reddit
This AI crap is so tiring.. I mean I use AI all the time but why for fucking Karma??
And people sadly have no inquisitive bone in their body.
Payton1394@reddit
I had a student do that before, but it was purely accidental.
Repulsive_Baker8292@reddit
It seems like you and the flight school have an obligation to report this to the police so that he does not try it again at another flight school. The actual police.
Shishakliii@reddit
Op is a women isn't they
There it is. Tolerating conservatives has doomed society
dunemi@reddit
The kid's a sociopath. He probably did just want to see what happened. That's why he was cool as a cucumber - he didn't really care what happened next.
AntJo4@reddit
How horrible, I’m so glad you are ok. We had a student make a threat on the ground about harming an instructor. He tried to pass it off as a joke and we could have gone with that but something in my gut was saying no, take it a serious as I could. Fortunately we had a school policy that has a zero tolerance for uttering threats so we had some options. He was immediately grounded and ultimately expelled after we had contacted TC to ask what to do « hypothetically » in this case.
Unfortunately privacy laws do prevent disclosing to other programs but it was suggested we might invite instructors from other schools for coffee and if a bunch of instructors just happened to get talking about some hypothetical close calls, in the interest of improved safety, as long a name and clear identifying information was not mentioned we were likely ok. Maybe it’s time to start a monthly coffee group with other schools in the area.
Beginning_Charge_758@reddit
Sounds like a pyscho to me.
SiegeSupport@reddit
He’s tired of being told what to do?!He should never be at the controls of an airplane, let alone an electric scooter.. he’s an accident waiting to happen. Pathetic mentality he has.
Electrical-Guide-338@reddit
What a monster. This is absolutely terrible. Are you still in shock?
humanoid_typhoon@reddit
there aren't any legal consequences?
Material_External_71@reddit
Sounds like a psychopath, good on you for shunning him out of Flight school before he may have ended another instructor
Silent_Internet_4119@reddit
My comment will probably be lost among all the proper answers. What the student did was stupid and crazy, warranting no further training.
But another alternative reaction of the CFI is show the student a dead stick landing, which should have been pretty straight forward if they were abeam the numbers at pattern altitude. My CFI, relatively late in my training, did much the same thing to me. He wanted to judge how I would respond to an engine out situation. At least he asked me before hand how I would handle it, and I am happy to be able to say that I made a perfectly normal landing except for the lack of engine power.
bravogates@reddit
Not a click bait at all, what you described has happened before back in 2023 with a Horizon E175 near Portland.
bjos144@reddit
Me reading this "Why? Why? Why?" "...especially from a woman."
"oh."
vipck83@reddit
That’s insane, that guy shouldn’t be allowed near an airplane. Don’t like being instructed by a woman? Is he a time traveler from 1950? WTF? If you don’t like taking instruction then don’t go to any type of school. Seems unstable.
wishywashytangobrush@reddit
From the sound of it, this boy has serious mental health issues and is an ACTIVE threat to himself and others. This needs to escalate to the highest level. Police and his parents should be involved and aware. This is very troubling and dangerous behavior and you could have been killed… should he have tried to overtake you or further manipulate the aircraft, you likely both would be.
InterstellarCapa@reddit
This person decided to spend a lot of money to learn a new skill, to be taught by someone, and then got tired of being taught to the point of causing a potential disaster...... people are weird. And that's pointing it lightly. That person is not fit to be a pilot EVER.
prof0ak@reddit
He has a death wish and needs to have a mental illness evaluation at a hospital
Phoduck@reddit
File a police report. This need to be documented guy is a danger to himself and others. Just wow
KlutzyImagination418@reddit
Holy shit that’s fucking crazy! I’m sorry this happened to you OP. I can’t imagine how scary this was. Good job on immediately reacting to the situation and getting down safely. Is the Canadian aviation agency (I dunno the name) notified? Can he have his student certificate revoked indefinitely? (If they issue them in Canada, I dunno how it works up there) There should be a way for that to happen and if so, those steps should be taken. The student placed your life at risk and who knows what else he could’ve done. And his attitude towards receiving instruction from a woman is a huge red flag like wtf. The number one priority in aviation is safety and this guy shouldn’t be anywhere near an airplane. I agree with the other comments that you should file a police report and possibly a restraining order, if you can. Keep yourself safe. Lastly, take these next few days to process what just happened. This is a pretty big event and I’m sure it comes with lots of emotions. Take your time to process them. Talk to a friend or anyone you’re close with about your feelings about this if you have to. Take your time to process this. Personally, I like journaling. I’m sorry that you had this experience. I wish you the best and take care! 🫶
Haunting-Soup6108@reddit
Glad you’re okay the kid needs help and def cant be a pilot, cant take instructions from a woman wtf?
DaemonPrinceOfCorn@reddit
imagine this guy encountering a woman in ATC at teterboro or somewhere mega busy lmaooo jesus
bravogates@reddit
In OP’s case, CYTZ.
Haunting-Soup6108@reddit
Lmaoo
Maxrdt@reddit
Don't worry, I've been assured by many men that sexism isn't a problem in aviation! /s
Canadian_Psycho@reddit
Those sweet, helpless little boys. Hopefully they’re pretty.
vishnoo@reddit
well, this dude's sexism is about to stop being in aviation.
Maxrdt@reddit
True! Wish they could all filter out like this. Harder to get rid of once they have a license.
na85@reddit
In many places, some of which are major sources of immigration to Canada, women are considered second-class citizens at best.
turbinewings@reddit
Can you report him to the TCAA ? so he can’t fly anywhere, ever.
Snoo_58814@reddit
Is it possible to charge him with a crime for attempting to harm you, people on the ground, or himself? His actions and attitude make him unsafe to other people.
rinmerrygo@reddit
What the actual?! How old was the fuck wad?
Shnitzel_von_S@reddit
Misogyny is a HELL of a brain illness. "I think I'm going to kill myself and my instructor in a firey ball of destruction because I don't like that she is a woman". Insane
Able-Development9220@reddit
Maybe you should his name up so others will know to avoid teaching him 😂
literatelier@reddit
This really sounds like he needs to see some serious repercussions. I second the people saying to file a police report. Surely this counts as some form of assault. He could have killed you.
Ok_Brain_305@reddit
I guarantee this didn’t happen. This is like a poorly written movie scene.
Danni_Les@reddit
Not only did he endanger your life, he did it because he didn't like taking instructions from an instructor. Tells you everything you need to know about this tosser.
There are a lot more female pilots out there, and I personally welcome them into a field that is predominantly masculine for no reason.
He really should pay the consequences for his action, as it was thought out and executed, even though there was a warning, I'd shudder to think what would happen if he didn't.
Just imagine a student pilot who doesn't want to be taught how to fly the proper way because he detests instructions - and I'm also guessing that he doesn't like being told what to do by a woman.. he's probably a self proclaimed 'alpha' who sees nothing wrong with his actions.
DogeLikestheStock@reddit
“Tell me about a time you experienced a challenge in the cockpit.”
Particular_Heat2703@reddit
Wow...that is nuts. Glad you put that misogynistic little asshole to bed.
MiddlinOzarker@reddit
I don’t know anything about Canadian law, but 25 or so years ago a drug addled young adult man tried to sabotage a light private plane in my home county. The county prosecutor filed on him and obtained a conviction. I only know because his father came to me for help due to my political position at that time. Of course I didn’t get involved.
Interanal_Exam@reddit
Holy shit! Glad you're OK.
Commercial-Salt55@reddit
Man fuck that person. Wtf.
Side note, Maslows hierarchy of needs talks about the things we need to be able to learn. If you have a student that doesn’t like you, they are not likely to learn. In this case, and when I was flight instructing, if I had a student who didn’t like me or my instruction methods, I would pass them off to someone else. This does 2 things. Gives them an opportunity to learn and prevents any animosity or crazy situations in the cockpit. It’s definitely not your fault they were a Misogynistic tool, and it does suck you lose a student for time building, but airplanes are inherently dangerous. Anything that adds more danger or unknown possibilities to flying just increases that danger. If you have someone who is showing signs of dismissive, elitist, or just plain not listening behavior, then I recommend not forcing the issue. Find another student and let them go. Don’t worry, you’ll have plenty of time to deal with idiots in the cockpit at the airlines. lol.
cautionhotsurface123@reddit
I would like a woman cfi...
JJJJShabadoo@reddit
Call the police. This needs to be documented.
At some point, he's going to grab the steering wheel when someone else is driving just to see what happens. This person is a threat to society.
CaptainsPrerogative@reddit
“No one tells me what to do” and “you aren’t the boss of me” are signs of the anti-authoritarian attitude, one of the Hazardous Attitudes that gets people killed in airplanes. In this case it was demonstrated very flagrantly — and dangerously. Kudos to you for recovering well and helping make sure this student was terminated from the flight school, and hopefully all of aviation.
Medeski@reddit
That is the attitude of a fucking Muppet who hates women.
FedNlanders123@reddit
Jesus I much prefer female instructors. They just seem easier to listen to for some reason. What a prick.
Dark_Castle_@reddit
So in America, a person can be placed on a 72-hour mental health hold for being a danger to himself or others. I'm not sure if there's something similar in Canada, but as a student preparing to solo he should absolutely have an understanding of the consequences of engine failure at low altitude as well as the proper operation of the fuel mixture. Even if this doesn't reach criminal levels, he is absolutely a danger to himself and apparently any female flight instructor and would qualify for an involuntary mental health hold. I'm pretty sure that would have ramifications for his flight medical as well. Don't let this maniac endanger anyone else in an aircraft!
machinaexmente@reddit
Chill. You didn't save nothing. Take the broomstick out.
Double_Combination55@reddit
In the USA, there is also an obligation for CFIs to notify the FAA so he also will never be able to get a license. I never seen a situation that would require that until this 👀
Atulin@reddit
Might be worth it to invest in some dashcams mounted inside
TaliyahPiper@reddit
Transport Canada at the very least needs to know about this. He is nowhere remotely fit to fly ever again.
EnvironmentCrafty710@reddit
Shit like this always reminds me of how hard it is for us guys to fully comprehend how misogynistic other guys can be and how it can manifest. We have no experience with it, yet for women it can be so ever present.
Sorry you had to deal with this moron. Glad it worked out and good job getting that result.
tomdarch@reddit
I'm a guy grew up in a very lefty community within a very, very big city in the feminist 70s (and even into the swing against feminism in the 80s, my family/community did not go along with it.) Of course women can be pilots, doctors, President, etc. Of course I can be instructed by a woman, a woman can be my boss, and so on. At the same time, I was well aware that women faced disrespect, discrimination and harassment.
But it has been painfully eye opening to realize just how widespread and terrifyingly deep-rooted the whole range of anti-woman shit is across "the West." I certainly was aware that a lot of people (men and women) don't respect women as intelligent or rational, but the depths to which there are people (men and women) who truly don't see women as human beings and people who truly hate women is utterly insane.
That said, from what OP is describing it sounds like this guy has a combination of a deep-seated problem with women, but more than that the act of threatening OP's life indicates problems well in excess of misogyny.
fixedvving@reddit
", it didn't take long to confess that he did do it on purpose because he was tired of being instructed what do to, and I kid you not, especially from a woman"
lol if i had the balls to say that to one of my female LCA's id be out of a job so fast
that guy is mysogonyistic and messed up mentally to do that in flight. students are there to learn not fuck with their instructors. good job on recovery. probably was "testing" you in his mentally twisted ways. Not fit to be a pilot and sounds like a danger if he ever hit the 121 world.
Old-Mulberry-6621@reddit
This is the future of young men......bleak
Eruption_Argentum@reddit
It might just be me, but using the phrase "I'd like to see you recover from this" really implies he knew what would happen.
Isn't this just attempted murder? I think not flying again is a minimum response. This was straight up psychopath behavior.
National-Worker9692@reddit
I would have kept calm like you all the way down, get him in a room... stay calm and then say: let's see if you can recover from this. Followed by a big punch in the face.
mdepfl@reddit
I think you're being too sensitive, NOT! Do training airplanes have crash axes? (asking for a friend)
F14Scott@reddit
I've never been a civilian aircrew, but was a NATOPS, instrument, and tactics instructor in my jet. Some thoughts:
A. Once on deck, a literal ass-kicking was in order. Riskier on the civilian side than behind the .mil fence, but holy shit. Killing the motor at the 180? Imagine if he'd upped the ante a little by stepping on some rudder? That kid hoped to make you crash.
d. Yeah, I'd file a police report, too, if for no other reason than to have it on the record that he's a psycho.
Who's paying for his lessons? If it's anyone but him, personally, tell them the whole story, with emphasis on "impulse control incompatible with aviation."
Whether he's suicidal, murderous, a raging misogynist, called to the void, a bunny boiler, or whatever- a) his aviation career should end RFN, and b) when he realizes it has, he will blame you. Go to DEFCON 1.
tomdarch@reddit
I doubt he's suicidal. But pulling the mix like that was a power play to threaten the life of the instructor. This guy is dangerous, and beyond never being at the controls of an aircraft, a police record is important so that it's less likely he ever gets life-or-death power over others in any other profession that he can "play around with." One example would be becoming a police officer.
Whether he's straight, gay or whatever, someone is going to have a very bad time in a relationship with him.
vishnoo@reddit
#4 is a good one. and I'll bet it isn't him paying for the lessons
TBH, I'd try to see what can be done about his driver's license.
BeachAtDog@reddit
Squawk 7500. Then 5150 lol.
Philly514@reddit
I would have called the cops, he tried to kill you both.
mongooseme@reddit
My first thought (before I got to the end) was that it was a female instructor; once she confirmed that, my second thought is that it was an Indian or Muslim student (especially because she didn't mention it).
tomdarch@reddit
There is a big distinction between merely having the cultural issues of "I may not have close contact with women who aren't family/wife" slash "it is an improper role for a woman to instruct me"...
versus pulling the mixture to create a life-threatening situation. Absolutely not all men from a culture like that would endanger their lives. That life-threatening action is specifically a product of deeper psychological problems and even without a female instructor, makes this person dangerous when they are in a position with some power over others.
No_Telephone3160@reddit
As an Indian flight student, I hate that this is happening. I just passed my private checkride and couldn’t have done it without my female instructor
Philly514@reddit
No stress buddy, we know not to generalize it to everyone. We’ll get through to them eventually :)
VolCata@reddit
Tbh that alone I find incredibly concerning.
If you’re extreme enough in your misogyny, I’m more than entitled to query whether you want to learn to fly for nefarious reasons.
MikeHowland@reddit
Holy fuck, he’s a psychopath
sjtech2010@reddit
Glad you managed the situation well! Good job.
CorrectElevator6390@reddit
Kudos to you for dealing with the problem very effectively and thanks for posting; perhaps future students can take your actions as a case study.
Thank god that guy will never be able to fly at your school (or possibly ever) again.
AdmirableBoat7273@reddit
Seems a little click bait. My instructor definitely did that to me. So i guess this goes both ways. Shit, my check pilot forced his door wide open on short final, i treated him like a passenger, went around again, and gave him a talking to about proper behavior in an airplane and promise not to do it again;)
As an instructor, i'd follow your flight school policies for student infractions.
EchoKiloEcho1@reddit
Your CFI pulled the mix when you were downwind, at most 1000 ft AGL?
AdmirableBoat7273@reddit
How else do you practice an engine off approach. The engine idle still has thrust. There's no risk. You'll make the runway either way if the engine doesn't start ;)
mmgoodly@reddit
"Wanted to see..." is Dark Triad stuff. And I am not talking about the narcissism or the machiavellianism parts.
tomdarch@reddit
Yep. This guy strikes me as wanting a position of power, in this example being a pilot flying a plane, combined with a demonstrated willingness to put others in life-threatening danger. Very bad stuff and he should not have that opportunity not only as a pilot but in other fields - ie being a police officer.
Odegh12@reddit
And people say Kamala and Hillary lost the presidency “not because they were women”. 🤣 (I know this is canada)
Alot of men hate women, yes HATE. I listen to my fellow men and the way they talk about women, you would think they aren’t straight or something or women had cooties. No, they just hate everything about women but just when it comes to procreating or their bodies. Its a shame how bad its been the past 10 years with the red pill cult
Texican84@reddit
WOW! I'd 100% report this to the local authorities. Every time I start to convince myself to get my CFI/CFII, I find yet another reason to further strengthen my desire not to, lol. I have thought about scenarios like this being possible; there are a lot of crazies in this world masking their inner turmoil until they have the opportunity to do something rash about it. Very happy to hear that you were able to recover and safely get the plane on the ground.
Whodoesntlikeanal@reddit
I just started lessons. Had a woman flight instructor. I’m a male. I didn’t even think twice about it. She was awesome and I asked her if I could continue flying with her.
I also had the thought of “man. If someone wanted to go out with a bang, they could get a flight lesson and go out with a bang” and someone tried to do it. Glad you were able to recover. That person would have caused me to lose my job. Someone trying to kill me, you’re gonna bite the curb and get a foot to back of the head.
Specific_Exchange690@reddit
Tired of being instructed?! That's literally what he came there for! Unbelievable.
tac0kitti@reddit
This student is absolutely not fit to fly anywhere, with anyone and should not become a pilot ever. Thank God you mantained your composture and got out of the situation!
Sythic_@reddit
Willingly signs up to be instructed on how to learn a new skill. Gets mad about being instructed. Brilliant.
nimbusgb@reddit
Trump voter?
pliiplii2@reddit
Glad ever turned out okay, stay safe out there
OnToNextStage@reddit
God damn
Bro was willing to kill himself to test you
SimonSaysGoGo@reddit
This is why I would never want to be an instructor. I'm always afraid a student would do something blatantly stupid like this cause 'why the F not'...thankfully now he can't ever do this again or with a bigger plane and putting passengers or crew members at risk
Props to you for being able to maintain your composure after the flight to explain what happened to the CP. i would have kicked his ass the moment he stepped out of the plane. I've seen flight training duos fight each other out on the ramp but I've never heard of someone trying to deliberately kill their flight instructor. That Fucker deserves what's coming to him
Sorry for the language, hopefully the school understands if you need a day or 2 to collect yourself after Sir Shits-A-Lot literally tried to kill ya.
Ill-Nectarine5843@reddit
That’s crazy
lebietetek@reddit
Thank god he did this with you and it got caught before he got any further into his training or career. The most dangerous thing about flying is the people. I am glad you are okay.
Odd-Particular233@reddit
This is why cockpit cameras should be required.
de1casino@reddit
Would this be considered a criminal offense?
LankyConsideration86@reddit
This is why I will never be a CFI.
Thumper223w@reddit
You’ve got more self control than me lol. I’d be chasing him around the ramp before the plane was even tied down! That’s a punch worthy action right there
Malcolm2theRescue@reddit
Should be reported to the FAA. Obviously psychiatrically disqualified.
TheLuminary@reddit
I am sorry that you went through this.
I know you already know this, but I just wanted to remind you that there are lots of us who respect all instructors and thank you for the work that you do. Some of my favorite flight instructors are women.
Great job on staying calm, and I hope your next student is more deserving of your efforts.
mongooseme@reddit
Female instructor - easy guess by the second paragraph.
Not mentioned, but this is almost definitely an Indian or Muslim student.
Abject_Tear_8829@reddit
What if it is? Will that make you feel better confirming your biases? What if it isn't? Ooh that'll really threaten your senses. Sad comment.
ItsaMeLuigii@reddit
CALL THE POLICE! This is attempted murder!
MangledX@reddit
Abnormal learner, file it with the FAA. You could have also justified hitting him in the head with a fire extinguisher and cited that you weren't sure he wasn't on a suicide mission to kill you both.
throwaway5757_@reddit
Contact his AME and the local FSDO (or the Canadian equivalent to these) as well. He shouldn’t be a pilot. At all.
Impressive-Ad3348@reddit
Had a friend of mine that had a student over Manhattan that did the same thing to him. He turned the magnetos off and through the keys out the window. Students are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get.
Murphysburger@reddit
Over THE Manhattan?
AdmirableTea2021@reddit
Leaving a comment to come check for updates later. Hope OP can get this maniac out of the air permanently.
CharcoalHorses@reddit
Fake news
girlgirlfruit@reddit
Love that you're okay 💕💕💕💕💕💕💕 my heart is with you
HefferVids@reddit
Whole post stinks of AI
Kermit-de-frog1@reddit
Was it reckless? Absolutely. Was he trying to kill the both of you ? No, If that was his intent , you would have been fighting over the stick the whole way down. Was it because you’re a woman? Perhaps, don’t have enough detail. At pre solo the CFI is pulling throttle pretty regularly, and I asked occasionally if I could pull throttle and try an engine out in the pattern . Depending on where we were, I usually got the blessing , though if it was going to require an alternate runway , we usually agreed to do it the next pass.
Does this guy need to fly again? Absolutely not, He should be WAY passed the “what does this do?” Phase, and certainly not a physical act vs a verbal question. Dumping him from the schools was the right call, Warning the other schools was smart too.
Don’t kick yourself, some students are just ignorant asshats, and for all the shittyness of it, you have a real world example in your mental toolkit now that when things go wrong unexpectedly, you can handle it .
Could you have made the runway safely from that phase of flight with a dead engine? I’m guessing yes , that’s its easily within your skill set.
perfect_fifths@reddit
I’m pretty sure a cfi knows enough to be able to tell an accident vs deliberate maneuver.
Kermit-de-frog1@reddit
We are discussing intent, If I intend to kill us, you aren’t getting the controls back from me, I’m not just pulling mixture. I didn’t opine that it was an accident merely that it was reckless. Folks that haven’t had people actively trying to kill them make this mistake in intent .
perfect_fifths@reddit
Did you miss the part where the student confessed to doing it on purpose because op was a woman?
Kermit-de-frog1@reddit
Didnt miss that at all, Are they alive? Then he wasn’t trying to kill them , it’s really that simple. Think about it, we are in the plane together at pattern altitude, I pull the mixture and dive the bird at the deck, holding the controls there. Are you going to be able to overpower me before we hit the ground? Unlikely. You’re moving the goalpost, I was discussing intent to KILL, with everyone saying “press charges” you’re unlikely to make a case beyond “reckless” conduct .
Deep_Pudding2208@reddit
Is there no video or audio recording in the cockpit?
moon__lander@reddit
Did he think you would Matrix'd the lesson into him from a diskette?
mikeber55@reddit
One word: shocking! It’s inconceivable how some people (regardless of their feeling towards women or the world) are thinking.
Edit: I hear about such cases almost daily. Yesterday in Idaho, a young man set fire, called 911 and shot the firefighters when they arrived, killing two and wounding another. Then he turned the rifle on himself.
tallsmileswolf@reddit
Nice job keeping cool!
905_jetman@reddit
Wow I never thought I'd come across this kind of situation. It looks like he was ready to die lol.
NovaPrime94@reddit
Wait… HE TRIED TO KILL YALL???
alphamonkey27@reddit
Call the fsdo asap and let them know about this and if the kid has a student license # give it to them.
chephy@reddit
I had a student pull the mixture out instead of carb heat once, but definitely not on purpose.
This guy sounds like a legit psycho. Great job handling the situation in the air and afterwards!
PlaneJane45@reddit
OMG! Good judgement. Hopefully this will be reported to the Police!
Mysterious_Set_8558@reddit
Wtf. Some people are never meant to be near these kinds of machines. What a prick. In my experience, women are the best teachers. They are patient and very thural. I'm glad your presence of mind and experience got you out from this shitty situation. Like everyone said, I would definitely contact police. Don't want to hear another aviation horror story in the future. A
Yang_Xiao_Long1@reddit
Tired of being instructed what to do? As a student? Yeah.... F that guy. He needs psych hold
Rude_West_8967@reddit
This actually reminds me of a story a well established Gulfstream pilot told me one time. I used to work in the corporate flight department for a major oil and gas company before I became a pilot myself. And one of our pilots told me that he used to fly with this guy that would start messing with stuff when he got bored during cruise. Like he would randomly pull the throttles back, or turn on an exterior light, or shut the AP off. At 40,000ft. HECKKKKKKK NO. You get some strange characters for sure in this profession. How some slip through the cracks, I’ll never know. But I’m glad you were bold enough to say NOPE and get him expelled. Because if you didn’t do anything he could very well make it to the right seat of a Gulfstream. Or worse. A 777.
I_am_the_Jukebox@reddit
I've had students try to kill me simply because they're students and don't know any better... But never out of pure malevolence. That's fucking wild.
CrazyButRightOn@reddit
Gave me FL flight school 911 vibes.
awkwarddachshund@reddit
Great job on handling a situation where it would have been understandable if you lost your cool. I think you should report him to whatever version of the FAA you guys have in Canada because he should not be able to have a pilot's license ever. Thanks for posting that here too so others can use your example
IrishConnection97@reddit
This is absolute insanity. Not fit for being a pilot at all.
I’m grateful to have so many good instructors who have checked in with me during my ATPLs over here in Europe and also made themselves readily available via email or text should I need help with something.
Even when I did have an instructor I wasn’t keen on (definitely have a horror story about that one haha), I just kept my cool, got through the lesson and quietly put him on my no fly list.
Very sorry this happened OP but glad you lived to tell the tale and have given our industry one less bad apple by the sounds of it.
Loko5979@reddit
I’d throw this guy on a no fly list. Suicidal/Self Destructive tendencies don’t need to be in the cockpit of any aircraft.
Maybe even file a police report if you feel it’s appropriate, I probably would tbh.
drain-angel@reddit
File a police report, and call Transport ASAP w/ the report number.
Canadian_Psycho@reddit
I’m hoping OP sees this in one of my comments.
https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/aviation-security/report-aviation-security-incident
Professional_Low_646@reddit
Stopping the students from killing you is half the job, as my instructor during flight instructor training half-jokingly used to say.
In all seriousness though, you‘re lucky the guy didn’t fight you over the controls or some other shit. There have been cases like that - a few years ago, a student attacked an instructor during flight near Berlin with a glass paperweight when the instructor tried to take back control to salvage an upset induced by the student. Both survived, though they ended up crash landing in a field. It’s a nightmare situation for any instructor, glad you got out of it. Stay safe!
Canadian_Psycho@reddit
Quite a major difference between a student making dumb mistakes and acting outright maliciously. I’ve joked about FOs trying to kill me when I get too snarky but those are jokes!! If an FO actually TRIED to kill me if make sure they never flew again.
Lawlcopt0r@reddit
So he was ready to risk his own death to prove you weren't good at your job (which you clearly are)?
ObviouslyNerd@reddit
"I'd like to see you recover from this!" So if he was right... he would have died?
THEFUDNUCKK3R@reddit
He needs to be banned from flying, for Good, that's insane
Charming-Elk-2154@reddit
I would’ve 100% slammed the shit out of that kid
scoobynoodles@reddit
Good thing he confessed, else it would’ve been your word against his. Does the plane have a camera or some recording device?! That is awful. Glad you were able to safely land.
Canadian_Psycho@reddit
Incredible. This absolutely beggars belief.
First things first, as others have echoed here already, incredibly good job getting yourself and your student down safely. Your quick action and composure shows without a doubt that you’ve got your flying chops and that’ll only improve from test to excellent to extraordinary over time. Again, great job!
Second, I’ve seen others here suggest contracting police. Not a bad idea but probably much more importantly to the aviation community and if it’s not already been done, your chief should contact Transport Canada and notify them of a threat to aviation security.
In fact, and this is particularly important, you or your flight school are REQUIRED by the Canadian Aviation Security Regulations to report any incident which threatens the safety of a flight.
https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/aviation-security/report-aviation-security-incident
I’m genuinely sorry for your experience but I also genuinely applaud your handling of it. Incredible job. Now just make sure this lunatic doesn’t ever touch a yolk again. I don’t even want to think of being a passenger on a flight commanded by this nut case someday.
Canadian_Psycho@reddit
As an after thought I’d also consider letting local CAMEs know about a potential psychotic break but might just be best to leave that to Transport.
FlyingHigh67@reddit
This person should never be near a cockpit again. May even want to report him to the TCCA.
BigGuy35@reddit
Forgive my ignorance but wouldn’t this guy have died too? This post got recommend to me on r/all and I’m confused on how he would’ve survived this plot if it went his way
limes_huh@reddit
Might be worth reaching out to every local flight school so they don’t accidentally get in another plane with him.
PhillyPilot@reddit
I might have punched him in the face after I landed.
FnEddieDingle@reddit
That's crazy!!! My buds dad was an instructor back in the day. He had a student throw up his hands and say "Allah Will Save All" when he pulled power and said, "You Just Lost Your Engine" during emergency practice.
Human_Call6322@reddit
I mean, I almost killed a couple of my instructors but it was never deliberate. lol
FortuynHunter@reddit
This feels like it should be reported to your local police. That's attempted murder/suicide on the surface, at least.
China_bot42069@reddit
Great decision making. When you guys flag him will he be flagged for all flight training units? I wonder if tsb should be made aware.
dagertz@reddit
Students, you can ASK your instructor ahead of time if you can get a demonstration of how the aircraft behaves with the fuel to the engine shut completely off. If performed in a controlled manner this is a safe and valid demonstration. Depending on what you are flying, a real engine failure may sound and feel a lot different than the simulated engine failure with the throttle at idle.
My first instructor demonstrated this in a Cessna 152. He had me close the throttle and trim for glide speed, then once stabilized he had me pull the mixture out. The propeller keeps windmilling, but at a slower speed than with the engine at idle, causing a unique vibration in the airframe that I hadn’t felt before. He had me go through the first steps of the emergency landing procedure for a couple minutes while I was distracted with the engine completely off during the ultra realistic engine failure scenario. In the process I actually missed that he had turned the fuel shutoff valve off. He showed me my error and then by simply pushing the mixture back in the engine restarted. He was such a good instructor because he implemented more realism into training scenarios, without sacrificing safety.
As an instructor myself, I would do this demonstration in all of the airplanes I flew. Brief it ahead of time, and do it over an airport. In an airplane with an IO-360 and 75 kt glide speed, the change in engine sound, propeller speed, and vibration with the mixture off was almost identical to the engine at idle. For airplanes with geared engines (Rotax) it’s more likely that the propeller may stop turning. In which case during a real engine failure scenario it would be helpful to know beforehand whether or not you will need to use the starter to attempt an engine restart.
perfect_fifths@reddit
This person should never fly again wtf. This sounds like a pilot debrief episode in the making.
vishnoo@reddit
" I knew better it wasn’t curiosity; it was deliberate!"
TBH i think "out of curiosity" is way worse, give me competent evil over random stupid mindless acts.
(then again, terrorism, so IDK )
mango-rainbows@reddit
Please report him to the authorities (police, transport, medical, etc.).
Nearby_Context_1998@reddit
Jeez. Better record your flights in the future to at least catch him with evidence… i use aviscript
hardwood1979@reddit
I'd argue that there should be criminal charges against them. That could be deemed attempted murder.
Bl1ndMous3@reddit
was he a boomer by chance ?
IM_REFUELING@reddit
Sounds like the police should be involved for an attempted murder charge. Like no joke.
LordMashie@reddit
aaaaand there goes his career. Absolute L.
Ravager2k@reddit
Do you think there is 2% chance that this person will kill someone in the future, as a pilot? If yes, would you do something that might save some’s life?
newgirlie@reddit
WTF. Hope he never flies again!
vARROWHEAD@reddit
I’m really impressed how you remained calm and professional through this whole thing. Including afterwards and with the CFI
LowNeighborhood9851@reddit
He's an active danger to himself and others, in the US he could be taken in for a psych hold and evaluation, there's something very wrong with him. Notify law enforcement.
Snowcone001@reddit
Jesus, this sounds like a CFI’s worst nightmare
literalsupport@reddit
Definitely involve law enforcement and transport Canada. This is a person who obviously has issues and should be nowhere near a cockpit.
Ok_North_7224@reddit
I’m so sorry this happened to you, OP
Kycrio@reddit
This absolutely warrants talking to the police and the Canadian CAA (if that's the right body,) it's like if a vengeful ex cut your car brake lines, which could be tried as attempted murder, and idk if Canada has a similar law, felony sabatoging an aircraft. If convicted he'd never be allowed on an aircraft again.
thatben@reddit
File a police report, no question. And if student initiates further contact with you in any way other than via the school, go for a protection order.
zplocek@reddit
It’s probably good someone like that isn’t in aviation.
jgremlin_@reddit
Ludicrous_speed77@reddit
He’s going to another school and pull the same thing probably, unless someone was notified.
MrSmiley6661@reddit
When I was a student, I was on downwind and I pulled the mixture. From what I could tell, fatigue made me think it was the throttle. As soon as the plane started to sputter,I quickly pushed it back in and the engine caught. I had some maybe 60 landings at that point. My instructor looked at me wife eyed and said "that is not a good idea. Don't do that". I assumed I looked horrified.
My instructor finished my ppl and I am working on my ifr with him.
I think a lot comes down to attitude. I was horrified and learned my lesson. This guy very clearly has a death wish. He shouldn't be flying. Good for you for giving him the boot!
LiveFreeFinn@reddit
That kid is probably a future serial killer
Street-Yam-9681@reddit
seems a little dramatic. my instructor used to mixture cut as standard for simulated failures, and while i now tend to theottle cut in singles, its not really a big deal. Sure, hes a dick for doing it, and being sexist. but this whole speech makes it sound like he held a gun to your head or something.
I have a rule on xc flights that my students can give me an engine failure at any point they want to, as long as they're happy for me to fly for a few mins, and for them to then re-establish track. It keeps your skills sharp, helps you stay more engaged on longer navs, and, unless you're not a very good pilot... keeps them respecting your ability as their instructor.
It also leads to a lot of scenarios where you can show them different ways to prevent bad outcomes. In the part of the world that I fly, its often not possible to simply land in a field or a road, so there are lots of considerations for safer sub-optimal spots too.
You won't become a better pilot/instructor by wrapping yourself in cotton wool. Unless your goal is to become a circuit soldier.
RandomEffector@reddit
Is there a lot of value in your students watching you recover from these simulated engine outs? Sounds like a wacky team-building exercise/fuck around time more than a super useful teaching tool, after the first time anyway.
PistachioMaru@reddit
Sounds like an instructor who's bored of instructing and wants to take time away from students by selling it as a "you get to test me instead of me testing you!" moment.
Seriously what value does the student get out of that that they wouldn't get out of the standard "if we had an engine failure now, where would you land" cross country conversations? He's just wasting his students' time and money, fluffing his ego, and looking for any opportunity to get some hands and feet time in.
Street-Yam-9681@reddit
they usually dont do it that often after the first few, but it gets them thinking.
RandomEffector@reddit
Ah I see. It’s provocative. Gets the people going.
Kemerd@reddit
Honestly I agree with you. Cutting the mixture is not a big deal. Any engine will almost instantly restart when you put it back in. There was little to no danger.
To me, this seems like the student wasn’t properly taught to not do stuff like that.
Street-Yam-9681@reddit
too right. fear mongering
Kemerd@reddit
Yep..
ItsNotAboutX@reddit
If you have to be taught not to do stuff like that, you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the controls of a vehicle.
You forget about that whole sterile cockpit thing?
Kemerd@reddit
Well, I could see how if they have seen people do it online they think it’s OK to do it.
To be fair it is OK but you would need to agree on it beforehand, I think this is just bad teaching or lack of teaching of cockpit etiquette, you can’t know what you can’t know
RandomEffector@reddit
Sounds like the student understood exactly what they were doing
redstercoolpanda@reddit
There’s a difference between clearly communicating that an engine failure test is allowed on this flight, and just randomly pulling the mixture in the circuit because your upseti spagetti a Women in telling you what to do. One is a clearly defined training exercise that you are somewhat expecting, the other is a sexist dickhead being reckless with the plane because his ego got hurt.
RandomEffector@reddit
Yeah it’s like there’s this thing called consent
Street-Yam-9681@reddit
fair. but its not attempted murder
Nix_Nivis@reddit
In what way do you practice that? Outright pulling mixture and actually stalling the engine or just pulling throttle and handing you controls like "hurr, I guess we're having an engine failure?!"
Street-Yam-9681@reddit
engine wont stall most fuxed pitch singles unless you go 7-8 knots below gest glide (unless its a wooden prop), which you really shouldnt do. It just sits there and windmills. even if it does stall, it will kick over again at 90 odd knots in a 172, which definitely gives you a bit of a pucker. You also have the staeter there if you need it.
Having said that, its not best practice, which is why i normally throttle cut in singles. main reason for mixture cut is that ist better for a non turbo engine.
My students just pull the throttle while saying 'practice' then hand over the controls... just like i do to them.
ScienceBitch90@reddit
Please report him. He will hurt other people.
I'm not sure if you fully appreciate the gravity based on some of your responses, which is more than fair since you just lived through this, but that little shit just tried to murder-suicide you...
Pretend_College_8446@reddit
Wow. Glad you’re ok
Bucketnate@reddit
WOW. He better not fly again. I'm surprised you didn't kick him out on the side of the taxiway lol. As soon as we were off the runway he would've been out im not taxiing back with a lunatic XD
Skylane795@reddit
Crazy guy. But just a quick note about the normal conti-lyco-saurus engines: pulling the mixture does pretty much nothing and restart is pretty much certain. Had some instructors at my home field who used to pull it for simulated engine failures. As long as the prop keeps turning, start is instant and the sparkplugs won‘t foul either
cocoagiant@reddit
Are seeking criminal charges possible? This person tried to kill you.
Content-Mix2547@reddit
Call the fucking police after that shit 😭
Ok-Literature7648@reddit
No way bro lol
CaptainLammers@reddit
As someone who has business to be in the subreddit but has struggled with mental health issues: This is a cry for help. Plainly.
You’re not his therapist, you have no duty to, ya know, affirmatively help this lad. But this needs to be framed as a suicide attempt or attention seeking in that regard. . . . when dealing with authorities.
“I did it because you’re a woman” is only a small slice of this story. You being a woman would not cause even a misogynistic asshole to potentially kill the both of you. Ya know, independent of other things.
All the best. Glad you handled the situation.
Feastweasel@reddit
While that is quite the experience and that student definitely should never be allowed to fly again... if you were in the pattern at the proper altitude and you lost power you should be able to handle that situation in your sleep.
While totally jarring as it's unexpected, you should already be set up for a perfectly fine power out landing at that point. Not ideal, of course, but it shouldn't have been a "Oh shit we gonna die" moment given the setup.
El_Hadschi@reddit
Please report this to the FAA or relevant authority in your country.
MEINSHNAKE@reddit
Between us we know it’s a non event (used to show students what would happen all the time), but intentionally pulling that mixture to “see what happens” when you know damn right it will Shut off the engine in the circuit is attempted murder. Get police involved.
ltcterry@reddit
Firing the student is the correct thing to do. Calling the neighboring schools and letting them know is a good thing to do.
This is a bit hyperbolic I think. There's actually a task in the ACS to respond to an engine failure. And this place of full of people saying "fly the pattern so you can make the runway if the engine quits." The Power Off 180 is the most failed maneuver on the Commercial practical test but everyone eventually gets it by the second go. Most engine failures are survivable - mine was. In the skydiving world there's a "thing" about the last jumper on a first flight turning off the mags and taking the key.
Despite all that the student shouldn't be randomly pulling the mixture. Ground his ass.
TobyADev@reddit
What on earth… that’s insane. Surely that’s criminal charge level
AN2Felllla@reddit
Imagine being a student and being pissed off that your instructor of all people is instructing you. Why the fuck does he even think he's there?!? What an idiot!
Feeling-Tomorrow-569@reddit
Just wow.
riskmakerMe@reddit
Almost sounds like suicide by flight instructor !
I would report it at the highest level. This is someone who should never be pilot.
Glad the outcome was one you could share. The next one may not be as lucky.
Final-Muscle-7196@reddit
Wow. Just wow. I know my previous instructor has said he’s had students pull the mixture in the circuit. But he said it was by accident.
What. Cocky arrogant student. At (assuming) 20-30 hrs, he’s a loooong way from “not being taught “ anymore.
Was this a younger student? Glad he didn’t ‘yeet’ the controls
Loc72@reddit
I don’t feel like that title is hyperbole at all. So sorry this happened to you, and hopefully you can move past it to keep on teaching all the other great students out there.
Getherer@reddit
I don't fly but I work within sensitive environments, if that was me training that person I would definitely mention potential mental disorder or mental instability in reports filed to block list him from applying to any other flight school again
Hyderite@reddit
wtf
jediant@reddit
When r/intrusivethoughts win. That guy probably needs some psychological help.
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
I'm really curious if this was some old guy who decided to learn to fly or a kid who thought he'd be a commercial pilot some day. I could see either way but if the latter, while I wish you didn't have to experience that, I'm glad he didn't lose it when he got to a home and had a female captain.
Given__To__Fly@reddit
Dude. This is crazy. I would absolutely talk to TC about this. This person can not fly at another flight school, or at all. I first imagined he meant to back off the throttle and grabbed the mixture by mistake or something, but my jaw literally dropped when I read "I'd like to see you recover from this".
And to say he didn't want to learn from a woman? Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit. What a POS. What licence was he trying to get? Just a PPL or further?
UnderdoneSalad@reddit
when i was a student flying P28A during our first patterns and go arounds, i screwed up and gave my instructor and myself couple of brown spots on our pants by retracting flaps from 3rd notch to 0 about 10ft off the ground once I commenced a goaround, i gave her full throttle and my mind instantly said "throttle, flaps!"
i was feeling so shitty for putting us in that situation and for putting my instructor in that situation where he had to deal with the event 10ft off the ground.
cannot even imagine being a such a dick to do something worse on purpose.
non the less, twas a lesson learned, and to this day i still remain good friends with my instructor!
datbino@reddit
R/thathapppened
osher7788@reddit
How old was he? I'm also a flight instructor in Canada.
I've been instructing for a year now, and nothing close to that has ever happened to me. Thankfully.
BeefStarmer@reddit
Obviously not a pilot but I've flown a couple of experience flights in a Cessna 152.
Given the close proximity to the throttle is there no way of locking the mixture lever so that it cannot be accidentally pulled during a crucial stage of flight (landing) as the fact that it can just immediately kill the engine is a bit scary!
RandomEffector@reddit
Not being able to change it would also be a bit scary
hackerbots@reddit
Men will literally try to kill their flight instructor for being a woman before going to therapy.
caelum52@reddit
This is the dumbest comment I’ve read this week
ItsNotAboutX@reddit
It's a meme from a few years ago. But also that person seriously needs therapy.
hackerbots@reddit
The man intentionally creates a dangerous situation "just to see" how she would handle it, and then later complains he has to take instructions from a woman. It isn't exactly rocket surgery to recognize this pattern.
redstercoolpanda@reddit
A man literally tried to kill his female instructor for the crime of telling him what to do while not having a dick. I think that’s probably dumber than this comment.
Bunslow@reddit
to be fair, therapy is literally prohibited to pilots in the usa, and from what i hear canadianada is no better
Avia_NZ@reddit
Well managed! Someone like that has absolutely no place in aviation at all. As a fellow female CFI, unfortunately you will run into people/students who as you say "don't like being told what to do by a woman". It's not uncommon at all, and hopefully it is something that your school will support you in dealing with
Bunslow@reddit
Well at least you can say you're a proper instructor now, ending-prevention tally now greater than zero
CD3660@reddit
Those with mental health issues should not be within arm’s length of the controls of an aircraft.
RepresentativeCut486@reddit
r/UsernameChecksOut
thepasttenseofdraw@reddit
Moron.
wereturningbob@reddit
The guy sounds like a psychopath.
s-mores@reddit
Oh my lord wtf. I am so glad you're OK.
Times like these it might feel like you can't understand, and that's OK. Most important thing to remember is it happened, and it wasn't your fault.
I hope this guy gets put on every denylist ever.
redstercoolpanda@reddit
This should be classified as attempted murder, what an absolute nut job.
Figit090@reddit
So glad you're ok, sounds like that kid doesn't respect aviation at ALL let alone your life or his own.
Report it however you can beyond the FBO. Worth the paper trail.
hondaridr58@reddit
Wow. Thats crazy. Don't need that crap in the cockpit.
Migty_@reddit
Oh my gosh this is awful
TangoQuebecEcho@reddit
Glad youre safe. Good work up there. Sorry that happened.
RobertWilliamBarker@reddit
Mhmm
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
TL;DR: Student, who isn't keen on me, pulled the mixture mid-flight. I saved it. We landed. He never flew with me nor with anyone else in my flight school.
Apologies for the click-baity title but I could think of a better one.
Yesterday I was flying a routine pattern with a student I’d been working with for a few weeks, one who had made it fairly clear through attitude and body language that I wasn’t their favorite instructor. Still, I approached every lesson with the same professionalism, hoping to build trust through consistency and safety.
We were on the downwind leg for the runway as usual, abeam the numbers, just beginning to discuss the pre-landing checklist just like we did before many times in preparation for his solo flight. I was mid-sentence about configuring for landing when I noticed his hand abruptly go for the mixture and said "I'd like to see you recover from this!" and before I could react, he pulled it all the way out.
The engine sputtered instantly. I took control immediately and pushed the mixture back in while simultaneously verifying throttle and carb heat. The engine caught again, thankfully without issue. I stayed calm, kept the aircraft flying, and executed a quick approach to land.
I asked him, calmly but firmly, “Why did you pull the mixture?”
He shrugged and muttered something about “wanting to see what would happen.” I knew better it wasn’t curiosity; it was deliberate!
We landed safely, taxied back, and I quickly got out of thr airplane and fast walked to our chief pilot's office. A colleague met me halfway because he saw having engine issues, I briefly explained what happened and he confronted the student. Obviously he denied everything.
After we all cooled down, the student, our CFI, my colleague and I sat down in his office and while at first he denied everything, it didn't take long to confess that he did do it on purpose because he was tired of being instructed what do to, and I kid you not, especially from a woman.
He was promptly dismissed from the school and flagged as well. Never in my life would I have though something like this happen. I'm OK now and fortunately the weather is awful today and tomorrow so it will give me a chance to decompress and regroup. I'm just venting a bit here because I know most of you will understand.
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