A QF-16 Full Scale Aerial Target Drone.
Posted by Aeromarine_eng@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 127 comments

Convert retired U.S. Air Force F-16. (U.S. Air Force photo)
Posted by Aeromarine_eng@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 127 comments
Convert retired U.S. Air Force F-16. (U.S. Air Force photo)
flychewy@reddit
Cool. We used to use retired F-4s.
Stellarella90@reddit
I watched the very last QF-4 on its final check flight. Used to work out at Mojave where they did the conversions.
JBN2337C@reddit
It bakes my noodle seeing this, because I remember when these were the new prototypes shooting down OTHER target drones, like F-102s.
TotallyNotRocket@reddit
Onw trip we made to Tucson i got to see the QF-4s. I feel a little old, but it really wasn't all that long ago. 1997~
JBN2337C@reddit
We had the last of the QF-4s do a demo (piloted) at our airshow about a decade ago. Was nice to see the ol girl fly one final time.
ditch_rr@reddit
https://www.lcsun-news.com/picture-gallery/news/local/community/2019/09/23/last-f-4-taken-hafb-alamogordo-white-sands-airport/2421460001/
TotallyNotRocket@reddit
I didn't get to see them in person, but I did catch the Collings Foundation F-4. I think around the time we went on that trip to Tucson, just before, I think it was an ANG F-4 came into AFW for the air show.. Will never forget any of those times.
Still have photos somewhere of dads time in the 57th working on them.
HandiCAPEable@reddit
I almost got SMOKED by a couple QF-4's on an Area-Fam flight. First flight out of Tyndall, instructor is describing things and starts rolling onto the runway, all I got out was YOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
2 frickin QF-4's were already using it. I saw it fast enough and we stopped before crossing into serious danger but good God that was a helluva intro to a new airfield.
TotallyNotRocket@reddit
Closest thing I almost got smoked by was a Cirrus at an untowered field who never made a radio call. That sounds more exciting.
EmpiricalMystic@reddit
Straight in 10 mile final?
Awkward-Inspector-38@reddit
hey, he deserves that runway and it takes a blink of eye to land
algaefied_creek@reddit
It's the ciiiiiiircleeeeee, the circleeeeee of...
Yusuro_Yuki@reddit
Inevitably. The circle of inevitably
algaefied_creek@reddit
Oh daayum, Thanos
nimoto@reddit
Fox two.
StanFitch@reddit
CHEESE!!!
Drenlin@reddit
That particular jet is 41 years old
dedgecko@reddit
Life… finds a way.
aerohk@reddit
Fun fact - The QF-16 is called "Zombie Viper"
Fresh-Word2379@reddit
Red white blue version of this would make a much cooler thunderbird livery. That looks badass.
StatisticianSudden95@reddit
we may see QF-22's in the not to distant future..... for our developing 6th gens.
Pinot911@reddit
I've wondered how much work it takes to refit these for remote operations and what the piloting experience is like for the operator.
holl0918@reddit
For fly-by-wire planes it is practically just add a wireless receiver and a software patch.
solocmv@reddit
At almost $5 mill per airframe to convert its a bit more than a receiver ……
holl0918@reddit
If that is the total cost, including labor, paperwork, and parts (including development costs), I'd say that sounds about right.
Why-R-People-So-Dumb@reddit
Yeah considering my insignificant GA plane cost 60k for new avionics not including labor and those really aren't that sophisticated in the scheme of things, retrofitting a military fighter jet for $5M is a pretty minor upgrade.
holl0918@reddit
I say someone in r/aviationmaintenance holding a magnetic plug for a jet engine that cost $150k or something. It was an oil plug. With a magnet in it. No electronics.
22Planeguy@reddit
I mean, if you're going to trust a small magnet to prevent metal chips in the oil from shredding the gearbox, I would want that thing to be designed by certified engineers, built by manufacturers that can trace their materials and verify that their machining processes meet very precise tolerances, tested by different certified engineers, and installed by licensed aircraft mechanics. And ideally I don't need to buy lots of them. That all adds up very quickly
pythonic_dude@reddit
And then there are still fatal crashes because the warning system about too many metal chips in the oil is designed by chipmunks and pilots didn't receive all necessary instructions.
22Planeguy@reddit
It’s incredibly rare that a part design failure is a cause of a fatal accident where the part was properly maintained. Honestly, the only example I can think of is the whole Boeing MCAS fiasco and that isn’t really the same thing.
No_Tailor_787@reddit
And that's exactly how it happens.
DogsOutTheWindow@reddit
Are you referring to the drain plug for the Challenger posted a few days ago? If so that was about $10K, still crazy though.
holl0918@reddit
Probably. There was meant to be a decimal point in that post.
WetwareDulachan@reddit
Nevermind the extra work if the thing was mothballed.
allusium@reddit
I’d do it for a measly $4,999,999
UnrealisticOcelot@reddit
Is that just the conversion, or does it include the work done down at AMARG to get them back in shape to fly?
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
F-16 being the first of those. I wonder where they put the receiver?
whywouldthisnotbea@reddit
Up the... you know what, you should just go ask your parents about that kid.
Mike_Raphone99@reddit
Buckled in the pilots seat
Pinot911@reddit
I get the FBW part but surely with all the buttons and circuit breakers in the cockpit some of them have to be hardwired and not controllable by the onboard computer. But I know nothing.
Aeromarine_eng@reddit (OP)
The “Zombie Vipers” get a flight termination system (aka self-destruct button) to destroy the Falcon drone if it gets out of control.
BathFullOfDucks@reddit
https://www.aviationtoday.com/2016/10/14/how-boeing-converts-f-16s-to-unmanned-configuration/ to answer one part of your question. I'm told the aircraft are capable of manual conftrol but generally the flight is programmed and the program is executed once the aircraft is in the right spot. This is because the goal of these drones is not to provide a realistic aerial fight, it is to test a specific parameter, for example the employment of a weapon with the opposing aircraft at a particular angle or using particular countermeasures. It is verify the system, not the crew.
Pinot911@reddit
Thanks that's a good article
jankeyass@reddit
GhostBat ftw
chalk_in_boots@reddit
HEY! No shooting down my sweet little MQ-28's!
WetwareDulachan@reddit
It followed me home, can I keep it?
chalk_in_boots@reddit
I don't think you'd be able to get rid of it now if it followed you home, I hear they're incredibly loyal...
WetwareDulachan@reddit
Ah jesus, I can't shake the fucking thing!
chalk_in_boots@reddit
You don't happen to be a Wedgetail AEW&C do you? Because yeah that little girl isn't leaving your side.
Electrical-Lab-9593@reddit
i am thinking the modern the plane the easier it is as you have more abstraction, the human input can be replicated remotely as digital signals .
boogerwayne@reddit
It’s kinda nuts that the US is destroying fairly capable fighters when most other countries are still using the same gen or older as their frontline equipment.
JBN2337C@reddit
They’re not dogfighting these things. Old airframes, old engines, old systems… Risk of coming apart from maneuvering. Incompatible w/ current weapon systems. Plus, a terrible readiness rate, being out of service undergoing maintenance more than flying.
It’s like owning a classic show car. Maybe drive it a short distance to an exhibition, or haul it on a trailer cause it’s gonna break down on a long trip. Don’t push it hard, or something will break, and parts are hard to come by.
malcifer11@reddit
they do sorta kinda ‘dogfight’ them sometimes. there are videos of an f-15c turning nose to tail with a qf-4 and slinging a 9x at it across the circle
WIlf_Brim@reddit
I think some people don't really understand the concept of NDT and repeated airframe stress. I'm guessing aside from being old and outdated, many have signs of significant damage from repeated stress on the airframe. They are likely well past their expected design life.
I don't think you are doing a Ukrainian pilot any favors by giving him an old F-16 that, when he does a 9g pull to evade a SAM the right wing decides to go in independent ops.
evthrowawayverysad@reddit
Welcome to the military industrial complex.
747ER@reddit
That’s probably my favourite white girl buzzword behind “late stage capitalism”.
evthrowawayverysad@reddit
Funny stuff. Do you deny it's existence, or object to my use of the term in this specific case?
The_Canadian@reddit
Mostly, this particular case. In this case, it's a buzzword response that completely ignores any degree of nuance.
Any piece of machinery has a finite life. After a certain number of flight hours, you can't keep flying an aircraft safely. At that point, you have two options, you either: A) scrap the plane or B) repurpose it for something like this drone or C) conduct an absolutely massive overhaul program to inspect, repair, and lower/reset the flight hours limit.
The aircraft in the photo is an F-16A Block 15 ordered in 1983. Given the differences in performance between this aircraft and a modern F-16C Block 52, overhaul and retrofitting this aircraft isn't really worth it. If Option C doesn't make economic sense, you're left with Option A or B. Now, weapons testing, general R&D, and pilot proficiency are ongoing activities, so there's often a need to test something like a missile against an actual aircraft. This is where Option B comes in. You still get value out of destructive testing like this, in terms of performance data for whatever weapon you're testing.
I don't work in the defense industry at all, but have always had an interest in aviation. Also, aircraft development and evolution in general owes a lot to military use. A lot of what we use and take for granted today wouldn't have been developed without that driving need.
evthrowawayverysad@reddit
And does any of the above invalidate or disprove the military industrial complex?
Was more money not spent converting the f16 into a drone, in order to have expensive ordnance fired at it, and would the money spent on that process not have been better spent on something else?
The_Canadian@reddit
Not necessarily, but your original comment reads more like the military industrial complex exists solely to waste money and that the decisions made by the DoD and others only exist to further that goal.
Yes, some money was spent on converting the aircraft. Money would be technically spent to scrap it, too (shipping, labor, etc.). As far as the ordnance fired at it, you need real-world testing to validate any design. It doesn't matter if that design is a car or a missile. Computers and simulations only get you so far. If you look at modern aircraft, for example, a huge amount of time goes into flight testing and R&D. That's why you typically see quite a time span between the first flight and entry into service. The same applies to something like a missile. In the end, you'll need a target, so you can either spend money to build a new target or spend money to turn an otherwise junk aircraft into a target that you'd otherwise have to scrap. You're effectively killing two birds with one stone here. Also, given something like a missile has to perform against real aircraft, using the real thing yields better test data.
evthrowawayverysad@reddit
That is indeed it's primary aim.
You've yet to tell me something I'm not well aware of.
The_Canadian@reddit
Again, that seems incredibly simplistic. I wouldn't say it's much less efficient than anything else related to the government.
Well, if you knew the entire background to this topic, then I would have expected a more mature and less flippant "Oh, it's just the military industrial complex" type of comment. I'm not saying it's always efficient, but you make it sound like the whole drone conversion process serves no purpose other than waste money. The entire point of my reply was that it does indeed serve a purpose - technical testing and development.
yogo@reddit
I object to your use of the apostrophe.
evthrowawayverysad@reddit
Get in touch with the gboard Devs and add to the list of users also disappointed by it's apostrophe placement choices.
Babna_123@reddit
I agree
NiCrMo@reddit
I get what you’re saying but selection for conversion probably has more to do with maxed flight hours than capability
DrNinnuxx@reddit
Yep, these air frames are no longer combat effective. IMHO this death is better than sitting in the boneyard for decades
Internal_Seaweed_553@reddit
Ukraine: “Can we please have the F‑16? We’re fighting for survival.” USA: “Erm… sorry, we’re using them for target practice.”
Drenlin@reddit
Total unmanned missions: 10 (far and away a record compared the QF-4). Total number of weapons employed against it: 15: 10 X AIM-120, 2 X AIM-9M, 2 X FIM-92 (Stinger), 1 x AIM-9X. The last two AIM-9Ms had live warheads and finally destroyed the aircraft. The airframe was out of hours and could not continue to be flown. By two AIM-9M fired by an F-15E. Total sorties: 8.
F10XDE@reddit
But it went new > storage in just 12 years.
Gaspuch62@reddit
I would guess that these are likely old, outdated F-16s like F-16A. If you are going to bring an F-16 into the modern battlefield, you want probably an F-16C Block 40 or newer.
Immediate-Spite-5905@reddit
I mean, you could probably attach some munitions on it and remote control it into a target
NOISY_SUN@reddit
More effective to use a cruise missile
Yummy_Crayons91@reddit
I'm guessing the F-16s being converted are at or past their usable airframe hours. Not much use to Ukraine that is going to be sending aircraft up for sorties on a regular basis.
It's the Australian F/A-18 sent to Ukraine debacle again. No sense in training crew on a new type of aircraft that has maybe 6 months to 1 year of operation time left on the airframe at most.
adsr@reddit
Operated by EasyJet
space_coyote_86@reddit
Easyjet have F-16s now?
Born-Patient-9728@reddit
😂, that was good. But typically, anything orange is either for test or training.
superconehead@reddit
Came looking for this comment 😂
JustaDevOnTheMove@reddit
Gotta fight for dem airport slots!
team_fondue@reddit
This specific bird sat in the boneyard for over a decade before being sent to be the first drone conversion.
They then flew it as a target until it ran out of hours and shot some live sidewinders at it as a final exit. It didn’t get turned into scrap metal by a crew with a trackhoe and a shredder, it went down in a blaze of glory.
Source: https://www.f-16.net/index.php?module=%20AircraftDB&func=display_airframe&id=1440&actype=F-16
AnExpensiveCatGirl@reddit
Luthais327@reddit
Seems odd that it ended up at the boneyard after only 13 years, but glad she went out this way.
RunRookieRun@reddit
Navy pilot probably landed her once.
OE2KB@reddit
Ouch!
specialsymbol@reddit
Isn't it cheating if you paint it blaring orange?
Stegosaurus69@reddit
Not as painful as F-4 target drones
murder0fcrow5@reddit
A-10's are probably shi***ng on their pants right now.
AllMyVicesAreDevices@reddit
They should save one for a maximum punishment test. What's the minimum viable warthog? Probably be great for future aircraft survivability.
mayorofdumb@reddit
A10s will live as long as the pilots do
Starexcelsior@reddit
Apparently all A-10 pilots are dying in 2026…
NeedUniLappy@reddit
…and all of their scribes, wives, owls and musicians.
Stegosaurus69@reddit
And they still signed up. Wow. 🫡
mayorofdumb@reddit
The Marine Air Squadron prefers crayon.
prancing_moose@reddit
The QF-106 was equally painful - didn’t feel as much pain for the old QF-100s and QF-102s, but those Sixes were some damn fine looking planes. Did super cruise way before the F-22, they were just oozing speed just sitting on the ramp.
These-Bedroom-5694@reddit
They are ancient end of life airframes, basically unsafe for a human pilot. They're not shooting down brand new, just assembled f16s.
Mike_Raphone99@reddit
Still would be better served in my front yard though
WetwareDulachan@reddit
All fun and games until the HOA rolls out an SA-6
Mike_Raphone99@reddit
So THATS where all the dues are going....
WetwareDulachan@reddit
Stroke 3, defending 6... figures
RobertWilliamBarker@reddit
I can already see the HOA coming at you with fire (of you have one). I'd dig it though.
GayRacoon69@reddit
Too bad I'll have a fighter jet. What're they gonna do?
No_Tailor_787@reddit
Chaff and flares.
Narrow_Vegetable_42@reddit
Sounds like a great celebration
InternationalDog2606@reddit
The airframes fly with pilots in them for 200hrs and are then killed before heavy phase maintenance is required.
No-Marsupial-1753@reddit
I want to understand the enemy.
iforgotmyoldnamex@reddit
I''m just glad to see something heading off to slaughter that isn't a Phantom.
Lizard_King_5@reddit
They probably burned through all of those already
Disastrous_Life_3612@reddit
They did. The last QF-4 was shot down in 2016. It had been used for airshows for a few years before that. I believe I saw it at Langley in 2009, unless that was another QF-4 that I'm thinking of.
No-Signal-666@reddit
Must be operated by EasyJet
No_Tailor_787@reddit
I'd like to see how they control them. I assume its a workstation similar to what they use for the Reapers and other drone systems.
MoarCowb3ll@reddit
Hey I used to maintain that plane! Iirc it used to be a trainer out at Luke
DocWallaD@reddit
I used to love sitting at the end of the runway just the other side of the chain link fence at luke as a kid back when you were still able to..
krusty_yooper@reddit
I got to turn a few of these into drones. Very fun job.
Insanereindeer@reddit
It just makes me wonder what the US has to offer that we have no clue about.
Cautious_Buffalo6563@reddit
It’s a real F-16. This one is remote control capable but still fully ready for piloted flight.
cyber-anal@reddit
First, I had no idea they were still using VISTA (HARV is in a museum). Second, they’re using it for AI? Fucking insane man. And terrifying.
Cautious_Buffalo6563@reddit
They hope to have up to 1,000 AI aircraft by 2030
Acrobatic_Tap265@reddit
Give them to Ukraine instead, you idiots
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Robert-Berman@reddit
I was stationed at Tyndall when it flew the very first sortie without the pilot. This was absolutely an amazing site to see.
https://youtu.be/7wDXTo1dSMg?si=7Pul9-hAXocQHxQ_
Spare-Dragonfruit601@reddit
These are still occasionally piloted by contractors. It’s awesome seeing them rip around with this paint job, and rightfully so they use the call sign “Zombie”.
TurtleOnLog@reddit
Bit of an unfair fight if they paint it high vis orange ;)
weaseltorpedo@reddit
Why don't they just teach some of those Boston Dynamics robots (the humanoid ones, not the dogs ones) how to fly a plane?
DemonstrateHighValue@reddit
Because those robots are destined for greater things. like real life iron man. Hanging off the belly off a F22.
CharcoalGreyWolf@reddit
(Indiana Jones voice) IT BELONGS IN UKRAINE!!!
boogerwayne@reddit
It absolutely does. My comment was more about the simple fact that we are destroying aircraft that exceed their current frontline capability and yet is years behind our capability.