China Builds New Large Jet-Powered Ekranoplan

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Crispicoom@reddit

It's inevitable, it's just what communism does to vejicle development. Next they'll build a Buran/Energia copy

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Glockisthebest@reddit

Meanwhile, you got planes like Dassault f-1, tornado, and kf21 that is just copy of American planes. It's not exclusive communism, didn't see you talk about them.

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ArgonWilde@reddit

Only if this means they'll bring back the An225!

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Svyatoy_Medved@reddit

DARPA is working on one. They are useful platforms for Pacific logistics.

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I have to question whether you gain a tactical advantage vs a normal cargo plane considering the engine fuel efficiency at sea level. Especially for the US who have in-flight refueling and experience with long endurance flights.

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Svyatoy_Medved@reddit

They don’t work like a normal plane, the ground effect allows them to generate much, much more lift. The DARPA project has been claimed to carry a C-130 amount of cargo at high altitude, or a C-5 amount of cargo at sea skimming height. So they can haul more mass than traditional airlift, and they can land on the water so they don’t need a 10,000 foot runway at both ends.

They are also interception-resistant. Dragging the waves like that, you’re better hidden from enemy fighters than anywhere else in the sky, though modern radar is getting pretty good at sorting out ground clutter. Unlike a ship, though, you’re completely submarine-proof.

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Beli_Mawrr@reddit

However, you can only operate in calm seas. That's Ekranoplans' big disadvantage. In order to be sea-skimming they have to operate ~10 ft off the ocean. Unfortunately, the notoriously "pacific" (/s) Pacific ocean has pretty massive waves that would argue that.

maybe I'm misremembering but I thought that was the main reason Ekranoplans are mostly used on lakes.

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PkHolm@reddit

it is all depends on size. Ekranoplans are effective on altitudes equal approximately wing width. So build one with 20m wide wing and it can go over some storms.

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Svyatoy_Medved@reddit

Solved problem, apparently. DARPA requirement is Sea State 5 operation.

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Gumb1i@reddit

Pretty sure that was to take off and land in SS4 but only remain mobile on the surface in SS5

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BloodRush12345@reddit

Modern look down shoot down radars and any AESA will pick this up. But it's no more vulnerable than any tanker or cargo aircraft so it still pays off.

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Svyatoy_Medved@reddit

That’s probably true, somewhat dependent on if the plane uses any low-observability techniques or technologies. But at the very least, the horizon is going to be more favorable. You can spot a high-flyer from further away.

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BloodRush12345@reddit

Well sure LO coatings and shapes will make a difference as well as sight lines to the horizon. This style probably has an advantage but it's not a world changing advantage.

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PumpkinRice77@reddit

i dont think a fighter radar would be optimized for wide area maritime search but once the plane is picked up by maritime patrol aircraft or AWACS a fighter would definitely be able to lock and kill it.

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BloodRush12345@reddit

Modern pulse Doppler and aesa radars could absolutely pick something up. AWACS are more capable but fighters are more potent than ever

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LordLederhosen@reddit

Flying cargo submarines are the clear answer :)

https://youtu.be/MnsiU0aQTKo

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ShellfishJelloFarts@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Pelican

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snappy033@reddit

Defense contractors will make a proposal and render of literally anything they had in a fever dream. Even if they manage to get an RFP for it through DARPA doesn’t mean it’s a fundamentally relevant capability.

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ShellfishJelloFarts@reddit

Hm ok

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Poolyeti91@reddit

If I had to guess, which I am, it’s probably ideal for usage to keep the missile marines that will lock down the South Pacific supplied on the islands that don’t have a runway. Floating docks and fast supplies would be a decent combo for that type of warfare

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fartew@reddit

Iirc one of the advantages of the soviet ekeanoplans was the insane amount of cargo they could carry thanks to ground effect. Which makes sense logisitcally, if your flight consumes 1.5 times as much as a regular cargo plane but carries double the cargo, it's still more efficient

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Aeromarine_eng@reddit

https://www.militaryaerospace.com/computers/article/55272726/seaplane-with-complex-controls-able-to-carry-combat-vehicles

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propsie@reddit

ah yes, the Liberty Lifter

The General Atomics design is real Weird Wings mid-Cold War gold despite being a design from 2023

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xrelaht@reddit

Makes sense: the USMC’s current Commandant is focused on changing its structure so that it can better fight in the Pacific, and a lot of that is new equipment.

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snakesign@reddit

Chinese Concorde wen?

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Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit

They are planning to retrofit a supersonic strategic bomber but will have some delay because apparently it's not easy building a pressured cabin into a non-pressured cabin aircraft.

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propsie@reddit

Does the PLAAF have a supersonic strategic bomber to retrofit?

The Xi'an H-6 and the planned H-20 are both subsonic.

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Delicious_Lab_8304@reddit

Yeah, about the H-20…

Prepare to be, ummm… surprised.

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OpenSatisfaction387@reddit

nah, the request from military about h-20 is just ridiculous.

rumor says that they want a bomber that can straight flight on to the america airspace and drop the A-bomb.

And still maintain stealthy

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Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit

If they shoot one down over their land, they'll have one in two weeks, haha. Remember when that one U2 got shot down and the USSR immediately built a 1:1 copy and later noticed that it's obsolete for their usecase?

Thanks for mentioning H-6 - never seen that one, but it looks damn cool!

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LordBelacqua3241@reddit

Also a communist staple lmao

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SIP_airlines24R@reddit

Comac said they're developing one

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widgeamedoo@reddit

Didn't the building of the Ekranoplan happen just before the fall of the Soviet Union?

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Erlend05@reddit

Cant wait for the chinese an-225

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KeneticKups@reddit

If I can see another manned spaceplane fly I cam die happy

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Inferno1886@reddit

I’d put more money on Sierra Space doing it first, but we’ll see

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Camton@reddit

Why?

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Gullinkambi@reddit

Like evolution and crabs

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xrelaht@reddit

~Crab theory~ ekranoplan theory

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loose_the-goose@reddit

Ekranoplanification

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A3bilbaNEO@reddit

Well they are indeed "developing" a Starship copy (AKA: Waiting for Spacex to finalize their design so that they know what not to do)

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My_Dog_is_Chonk@reddit

There's something about ekranoplans that just feel...cursed.

Sort of like trying to guess what's cake and what isn't.

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scots@reddit

Following the Iran bombing, you should see the insane number of overly proud militaristic Chinese people posting on RedNote that they too have developed a B2 stealth bomber clone.

I keep pasting the same comment to all of them - ".. congratulations! You've managed to copy an airplane that first flew 36 years ago, and started development 46 years ago! You must be proud!"

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ElkeKerman@reddit

Let’s fucking goooo

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GierownikReddit@reddit

Hell yea

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Professor_Smartax@reddit

Do they have a large body of water to use it on?

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8Bitsblu@reddit

Watch someone try to spin this as a "copy" of something.

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-pilot37-@reddit

Hell yeah, I wouldn’t mind the return of the Ekranoplan

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Lord_Hardbody@reddit

This is way cool, a huge ekranoplan DRONE. Efficient autonomous transport across water and below radar is a very interesting use case, especially for China

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meep-@reddit

Should we do a V-Tail or a T-Tail?

China: Yes

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thebedla@reddit

So, a TV tail?

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medney@reddit

I wonder if it gets showtime?

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pumpkinfarts23@reddit

Yeah, it's the trick that because of the engine placement, a short box tail means the rudders are always in the downwash, which must be worth the drag cost to maintain lateral control at low speeds.

Ground effect vehicles look kinda like airplanes, but control in really counterintuitive ways.

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ClickyKeyboardNerd@reddit

NO WAY, THEY ARE DEVELOPING A MODERN_ISH EKRANOPLAN, WOOP WOOP, seriously guys I have been waiting soooo long for this after soviet were discontinued, I just think they look so goofy and at the same time epic

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kaleidoleaf@reddit

I wish we could stop fighting each other and just build more ekranoplans. For what? I don't care, ekranoplans are just fucking awesome.

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DeltaV-Mzero@reddit

And race them!

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psunavy03@reddit

It looks like they designed it in Kerbal Space Program, accidentally put the wing on upside down, and then clicked “Launch.”

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DionStabber@reddit

Interesting. If that diagram is correct, it looks much closer to a normal plane than most ground effect vehicles. I would guess that it is capable of regular flight as well, at least for a portion of its journey.

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snappy033@reddit

This makes the most sense. It would slot in against a C-17 for tactical airlift. C-17 is optimized for STOL, unimproved runways and flying near contested areas.

This thing could be an extreme version of that. Fly in low under radar and the ability to skip the runway altogether by landing on the water.

My only question is ground logistics. Not every place in the Pacific will have a harbor, ramp or nice beach (that could handle a massive cargo plane) for loading and unloading.

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Gumb1i@reddit

Not enough interference over water to fly in under the radar per se. Also not enough land features to hide in radar shadows. A maritime radar will pick this up.

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morningwood4321@reddit

Well they made those floating piers/barges

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snappy033@reddit

I never said any place in the world. It can’t be for only Taiwan lol. Taiwan is not far from China and has runways. Besides, Taiwan isn’t THAT important that China is building up their entire military for one island. They have much grander ambitions and are using Taiwan as a stepping stone. They need to see what the US and other world powers will do if they take Taiwan.

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i0datamonster@reddit

Tawain is only 100 miles away. A Cessna can go 600-800 miles. I don't think ground logistics is a concern for this.

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snappy033@reddit

They’re going to need a lot more than 100 miles of range if they start a war in the South China Sea.

It’s not like they just fly to Taiwan and stick their flag in the ground. Nobody in the Pacific will be happy with China doing that. China has bigger ambitions than Taiwan. Look at how Russia took Crimea to test the waters for a larger invasion.

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rogorogo504@reddit

no one tell H.I. Sutton, or he will go hihikimori again to do a full external sketch with a plausible internal layout... in MS-paint.
(Seriously, someone crowfund a Google Sketchup course series for this serious, valueable and necessary analyst still bound to the losTech of something called "journalism").

Also the betting pools for badly placed R-360 clone pods should be open by now.

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Corvid187@reddit

Apparently he's been offered free software and courses by a number of different sponsors, but he unironically thinks paint is just the superior platform for his work.

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rogorogo504@reddit

it is almost Tuesday here, and I find myself now in a very existential state...
I am unsure whether I want this to be reality and admire the unwavering confidence (for we must know that everyone has a miss and with him we prefer it to be right there and for this) - or whether I want this to not be reality and....
.
..
...
..I think my causality chain just had a heap crash.... and my last reboot did not go so well either...

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Acceptable-Ad-9464@reddit

They only need to reach the beaching Taiwan fast with there cargo. Big mistake to underestimate the Chinese or Asian mentality.

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13curseyoukhan@reddit

There's an ekranoplan gap! We must act now!

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Emmilheim@reddit

Mr President we cannot ALLOOOOWWWW a MINESHAFT GAP!

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Inevitable-Regret411@reddit

We cannot risk falling behind in the arms race, and the space race, and the peace race!

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13curseyoukhan@reddit

AAAARRRGH! I forgot about the peace race!

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Annual-Advisor-7916@reddit

What's up with the small nozzless? Generally the turbines look a bit small in diameter for todays, high bypass turbofan standards, but the nozzles are tiny...

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VisceralMonkey@reddit

Taiwan invasion, no other purpose.

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West-Ad6320@reddit

People keep calling this sucker an EKRANOPLAN. But it looks more like a normal flying boat with a SUPPLEMENTARY capability to fly wing in ground effect. The old Soviet Ekranoplans could not fly out of ground effect to any significant altitude (or am I underestimating their capabilities???).

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Anandamine@reddit

The VVA-14 could do both as it was a submarine hunter and would descend to a given area to hunt for subs. It didn’t enter production though. Bartini was the designer… very cool aircraft, too far ahead of its time / didn’t have lifting fans powerful enough for it to work as well as it needed to.

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someoneired@reddit

More or less a mid prototype , the engines definitely aren’t meant to be at that position

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snappy033@reddit

You can gain a lot of efficiencies having the engines on pylons like that. Blown wing, avoid water ingestion, etc.

Doesn’t make sense for maintenance or structural/weight but maybe a lot of sense for a niche military plane.

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someoneired@reddit

A lot of replies and the location suggests its for naval use

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snappy033@reddit

No shit.

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Irgendwer1607@reddit

They are most likely meant to be that high. Don't want water to enter the jet engines.

The Lun class and the Seamaster both had engines in a similar configurations

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vikster16@reddit

It is. Ekranoplanes sorta require that high position. If they can actually make it. Would be pretty cool considering it could create a whole new class of warships that can travel at airplane speeds with low costs.

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Have_Donut@reddit

It’s pretty common for WIGs to have the engines high. The A-90 had a turboprop mounted at the top of the T-Tail

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thrashmetaloctopus@reddit

It’s possible they are, Ekronoplan prototypes made by the USSR back in the day had engines higher up than a conventional plane to A. Avoid sea spray being ingested and B. I think it alters the Center of lift in a way that’s beneficial to Ekronoplans specifically but that could be wrong

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RaDeus@reddit

I see Ekranoplan, I post World in Conflict cutscene.

Simple as.

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AccomplishedEmu1886@reddit

The fuck is that?

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Key_Door6957@reddit

So how do they not hit all that shipping?

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iceguy349@reddit

Are we sure this is a pure ekranoplan?

I know the US is working on the liberty lifter which is a hybrid cargo plane/ground-effect vehicle.

There’s also a high chance this is just a conventional flying boat as well those wings look awful long.

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