Brits, quick poll: which one of these surname feels properly posh and Anglo-Saxon for a novel family?

[-]

Agathabites@reddit

Neither sounds posh, sorry. Appleton is not in any way an upperclass name and Heathcote sounds like the name of a town or suburb.

Try looking at the surnames from the aristocracy?

The Duke of Devonshire’s surname is Cavendish (sounds properly posh). The Duke of Norfolk’s surname is Fitzalan-Howard (double barrel common in posh families). Richmond’s surname is Gordon-Lennox. The Duke of Manchester’s surname is Montagu.

[-]

CapnSeabass@reddit

Appleton reminds me of Applecross, which is an early-settled peninsula on the west coast of Scotland.

[-]

Bon_BNBS@reddit

With a horse fair? Is that the same place?

[-]

CapnSeabass@reddit

Mmm I think that’s Appleby, in the north of England.

[-]

HotPinkLollyWimple@reddit

They should just go with Bucket.

[-]

Neferknitti@reddit

It’s pronounced “Boo-kay”.

[-]

HotPinkLollyWimple@reddit

My grandma’s surname is Tuckett. She’s 98 and every inch a Hyacinth.

[-]

InfiniteDjest@reddit

Was going to say Cavendish. Although in a novel context it was already used, in Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell (not that one).

[-]

nonsequitur__@reddit

I’ve known plenty of Appletons but none are posh. Agree neither name sounds posh nor instantly recognisable as English.

[-]

afcote1@reddit

Alistair Appleton is a well known tv presenter

[-]

Minskdhaka@reddit

I can understand them not being posh, but what are they other than English?

[-]

nonsequitur__@reddit

Not not English, but not instantly recognisable as English in the way that the OP is requesting - “unmistakably England-English, prestigious” etc

[-]

tessaterrapin@reddit

Absolutely agree there's nothing upper class about Appleton or Heathcote. They're the sort of names pub landlords might have -- Graham and Janet Appleton, Don and Julie Heathcote.

Seymour, Beauchamp, Fanshawe, Carruthers, Knollys are names which sound posh to me.

[-]

reginalduk@reddit

Fitz names are proper posh Norman names. Fitz is a derivation of fils, meaning son. So like Anglo Saxons and Norse has godwinson, Normans have Fitzpatrick, Fitzwilliam etc.

[-]

adski42@reddit

Doesn’t it specifically mean ‘illegitimate son’?

[-]

Malus131@reddit

Not necessarily, although some of the prominent examples are of illegitimate sons. What muddies the water is that written accounts don't really bother themselves with the details of everyone's birth, and 11th century Norman inheritance rules are very different from the notion we have of bastards being unable to inherit (see: William the Conqueror).

[-]

reginalduk@reddit

I don't think so. Happy to be proved wrong though.

[-]

Familiar_Radish_6273@reddit

If you trace every Fitzpatrick or Fitzhenry to their origin, it will be as an illegitimate son of a royal.

[-]

reginalduk@reddit

But that's not relevant to Fitz being derived from fils

[-]

Familiar_Radish_6273@reddit

Fitz is derived from fils, and is used in English Middle ages up to the Restoration (possibly beyond?) to denote an illegitimate royal. They were given the name to ensure they had some status. Illegitimate children of anyone less than royal were "nameless" so had no status in society. Eg Henry VIII had an Illegitimate son who was called Fitzhenry and was then able to be given some other lordship as a result. It's why Fitzes are always Fitz-"male first name", eg Fitzpatrick, Fitzhenry, Fitzjohn etc. It's creating a new surname from their Dad's first name.

[-]

Familiar_Radish_6273@reddit

Forgot Fitzgerald! The most common one.

[-]

MonkeyHamlet@reddit

English kings used to use “Fitzroy” for their illegitimate children, but prefix doesn’t necessarily denote illegitimacy in other families.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitz

[-]

SomeRannndomGuy@reddit

Hyphenate them together as Appleton-Heathcote

Job done.

[-]

ConsciousBother4047@reddit

A name that always sounds super posh to me is Rowbotham (is that even how you spell it?). If you want to make any name instantly posher just double-barrel it with another posh name. Rowbotham-Smedley?

[-]

VegetableWeekend6886@reddit

OP is American

[-]

Old_Introduction_395@reddit

I worked for a company called Heathcote.

[-]

maceion@reddit

I have an old illustrious surname, but all call me 'Wandered Norwegian' as forbears were viking invaders, then settled. Family has only been in UK for about 900 years, but we still do not have our feet under the table.

[-]

educateyourselfFFS@reddit

Use Cholmondley, it will sound posh to us Brits and we can also laugh at how Americans pronounce it (clue, it isn't chol-mond-lee) But don't use cholmondley-warner, "Americans know your place" 🤣

[-]

More_Sense6447@reddit

🤣

[-]

vinylemulator@reddit

Cavendish Belgrave Pembroke Fanshawe Featherstonehaugh (pronounced fanshaw) St John (pronounced sinjin) Marchmont Deverell Talbot Farquhar de Vere Montfort Peverell Cavell

[-]

No_Bullfrog_6474@reddit

man i don’t think i will ever get over how ridiculous the pronunciation of names like featherstonehaugh is

[-]

broketoliving@reddit

chumliegh-warner obviously

[-]

More_Sense6447@reddit

Women know your place 😂

[-]

leftat11@reddit

Honestly they both sound like what an American thinks a British surname would sound like. Saxon names are not considered posh, they ended up subjugated to a Norman aristocracy. Place names work, but places with castles, not random villages. It might be worth looking at historic names of aristocracy like, Cavendish, Wedgewood, Montgomery, Raleigh, Lyons, Worsley as examples. Last names of British hero’s or famous families also work for what you want to achieve. A double barrel is also a quick way to make a character sound posh, like Rupert Campbell-Black. I can saw this as a Brit, writer and working for many years in Private Schools. Will also add, the posher you are, the more likely that most people know you by a nickname you acquired in infancy/ school like - Toady, Bundle, Sausage, Teddy, Binky, Tiggy, Piggers, Lettuce, Flops, Pongo, Wingnut, (Bear Grills is a good example) I have people I went to school with and still go this day as grown adults do not know their first name.

[-]

CapnSeabass@reddit

My maiden name is in your list, and North of the border it’s associated with heavy gang activity. Damn, We could have been poshos if Glasgow hadn’t dragged us down. 😩

[-]

Jo-Wolfe@reddit

My dad's side were robbers in the borders and they also relocated to Glasgow and became a scummy family. Funnily enough my mum's family were robbers as well in the borders but developed their military skills and are an old military family, some went to Ireland with Cromwell and stayed, we have a castle, unfortunately a relative turned Catholic about 150 years ago and we're the poor branch 😭

[-]

sossighead@reddit

Border Reivers - all of my grandparents surnames are Reiver clan names 🤣

[-]

Jo-Wolfe@reddit

Exactly 😃

[-]

leftat11@reddit

Fair to say most aristocracy at one point were all thugs on horses.

[-]

Jo-Wolfe@reddit

Absolutely 😃 You didn't acquire power and riches by being a softie in those days, they were harsh brutal times and psychopaths were in their element, they still are but now we call them politicians, CEOS, and billionaires 😃

[-]

JohnLennonsNotDead@reddit

Hello Mrs Sausage

[-]

4me2knowit@reddit

Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright springs to mind

[-]

doc1442@reddit

This whole book will sound like that anyway, so why bother with the names actually being correct

[-]

DerthOFdata@reddit

OP is Brazilian.

[-]

dowker1@reddit

So you've got a good start by having names that sound like places; the British aristocracy and gentry often have surnames that reflect their aristocratic home (Churchill and Washington being famous examples). Appleton sounds way too made up, however. Best bet, just look at a map of England and hubby for non-descript villages until you find one you like the sound of.

[-]

Slight-Brush@reddit

Appleton is a nondescript village near Oxford

[-]

nonsequitur__@reddit

And one in Warrington

[-]

Slight-Brush@reddit

Almost as if apples are a common crop and '-town' is a common suffix

[-]

nonsequitur__@reddit

Aye! And also an Appleton Thorn

[-]

dowker1@reddit

That's fine, but it still sounds fake to me. It sounds like a station in Thomas the Tank Engine.

[-]

Familiar_Radish_6273@reddit

It's the surname of the sisters in All Saints. Not made up but also not posh.

[-]

Slight-Brush@reddit

Yep, and Leonard Stanley sounds like he props up the bar at Queen Camel’s drag show.

[-]

pm_me_your_amphibian@reddit

Never expected to see Leonard Stanley mentioned on Reddit.

[-]

QOTAPOTA@reddit

Odd that it sounds made up. Appleton is not a rare surname. Lots of villages named Appleton too. I wouldn’t say posh though.

[-]

dowker1@reddit

Like I said in another comment, to me (and it may just be to me) it sounds like a town in a children's TV show.

[-]

QOTAPOTA@reddit

I can see that.

[-]

KatVanWall@reddit

Appleton makes me think more of a rosy-cheeked farmer! With it being a place name, it evokes images of a quaint village somewhere in the southwest or the Cotswolds. I’d say it has a down-to-earth, rural vibe.

[-]

nonsequitur__@reddit

I know loads of Appletons, none of them posh. And there is an Appleton in Warrington. Heathcote sounds more made up to me.

[-]

doesntevengohere12@reddit

I know someone with the surname Appleton. Middle class though not posh.

[-]

Asayyadina@reddit

You have a lot of good advice here, but I have a suggestion. Find a book of Tudor history and look at the surnames (not titles) of the nobles and advisors associated with Elizabeth I and the like.

Suggestions:

Deveraux Howard Grey Dudley Percy Carey Grenville Cecil

[-]

Wasps_are_bastards@reddit

If you’re not writing about a period set in 900, Anglo Saxon is irrelevant

[-]

Mikon_Youji@reddit

You should be looking for aristocratic British surnames, not anglo-saxon.

[-]

Impossible_Theme_148@reddit

Just emphasising that neither of these sound posh

I think Appleton sounds more American and Heathcote sounds more bog standard middle class

And as others have pointed out - posh names would have Norman roots, not Anglo-Saxon

If you wanted them to sound actually posh I'd come up with something new - maybe look up lists of actual aristocracy and combine two simple names into a double barreled surname, for example

[-]

Actual_Cat4779@reddit

The Tory MP David Heathcoat-Amory is somewhere posh. Related to a baronet. Went to Eton. But that's Heathcoat-Amory rather than Heathcote.

[-]

Impossible_Theme_148@reddit

A lot of simple names will sound posh when double barrelled - you could probably put most 1 and 2 syllable names together to make a "posh" name

[-]

AppearanceAwkward364@reddit

Ftang Ftang Ole Biscuit-Barrel

[-]

Afraid-Priority-9700@reddit

Why do you assume that Anglo-Saxon=posh? The Anglo-Saxons were overthrown by the Normans post-1066, so the aristocracy of England got replaced by Normans, who brought French names with them. Those same names live on in our modern aristocracy, so for something truly posh, consider something that sounds a little bit French.

[-]

Actual_Cat4779@reddit

I had the same thought, but maybe the OP is just using Anglo-Saxon to mean English. Non-Brits don't always know the definitions. The French call both Brits and Americans "les Ango-Saxons".

[-]

tygeorgiou@reddit

My most posh friends and friends with posh names don't even have English second names. For example Fawthrop, which is Swedish I think, or Mollineaux which I think is french.

I genuinely don't know a posh family with an English second name other than Lloyd which I don't know if that sounds posh or not.

[-]

Hatstand82@reddit

There was a popular British girl group in the 90s called All Saints - 2 of the members were sisters with the surname Appleton and one of them married one of the Gallagher brothers from Oasis. These girls were definitely not posh and many Brits will remember them.

[-]

gwvr47@reddit

I'd change Appleton to Appleby, as in Sir Humphrey Appleby. He's a fictional character from Yes Minister who went to one of the 7 and then on to Oxford (I think... Could've been the other one)

[-]

engineerogthings@reddit

Mr. Cholmondley-Warner

[-]

MiddleEnglishMaffler@reddit

Appleton-Heathcote, if you're not trying to make it a historically accurate fact that can be traced into antiquity.

Many nobel families made double-barrelled surnames in more recent times to preserve family names from disappearing through the female lines in marriage.

[-]

Normal_Investment382@reddit

Hi op. Some families regained their lands by intermarrying with Norman families but their descendants would then carry the Norman family name. This is worth a read.

[-]

Seanacles@reddit

Heathcote, Iv worked in Appleton a lot it's not posh in the slightest.

[-]

Swamivik@reddit

Not Appleton. With Appleton, I think of Nicole Appleton and she is the opposite of posh.

[-]

ignatiusjreillyXM@reddit

I don't think you understand what Anglo-Saxon means (in a non-Francophone or possibly non-Italophone context).

I would say Etheldred Sexeburger would do as female Anglo-Saxon forenames, Alfred Edward as male ones.

The Anglo-Saxons didn't really use surnames, the Normana brought those along with poshness and lording it over the rest of us for the ensuing centuries

[-]

jbuk1@reddit

If you want them to be posh then they need a Norman French surname.

The Anglo-Saxons where not part of the ruling class post 1066.

[-]

CurvePuzzleheaded361@reddit

Neither are posh really

[-]

_Sad_Ken_@reddit

Neither. Sorry.

Anglo-Saxon names wouldn't be posh, theyd be profession names usually. Look at the currently aristocratic names: Beaufort, Percy, Lascelles, Cavendish, De Montfort, Fitzalan, Fitzroy, Hamilton, Lennox, Montagu, Grosvenor, Carnegie... Many of these are Norman in origin not Anglo-Saxon.

Fitz... suggests a royal/aristocratic connection, often through illegitimacy. Eg Fitzhenry would have been "bastard son of King Henry VIII"

Place names (like Appleton) were posher as it suggests an ancestor was known purely for their home, often knights or Lords .... But that's long watered down now.

[-]

danziger79@reddit

Appleton makes me think of All Saints, which is not the connotation you’re wanting. I agree that Cavendish and Fitzwilliam are aristocratic names — most family names associated with stately homes would work, but Spencer is too widespread and Churchill too on the nose.

[-]

I_really_love_pugs@reddit

Heathcote is the surname of a very rich and well-to-do person I met in a previous job so that one for me. Appleton just reminds me of All Saints!

[-]

Boldboy72@reddit

there are no "Anglo Saxon" aristocratic families, they were stripped of their lands and titles by the Normans. So if you want an Anglo Norman name you'd be looking at something like DeVere, DeBurgh or Fitzroy (which was the name given to the illegitimate sons of Kings).

You could look to Dickens who would just make up a name that sounded good.

[-]

Malus131@reddit

Plus surnames only really became a thing after the Norman Conquest. People tend to only be referred to as like "Tostig, son of Godwin" or they have a cool nickname added on like Silvaticus or Streona.

So I suppose OP could go down the Godwinson route but that gives me more Scandinavian vibes than posh "Anglo-Saxon".

[-]

Ok-Decision403@reddit

I think they're using "Angli-Saxon" in the North American sense, not the literal one.

[-]

Malus131@reddit

Well that's just daft. Besides I spent too specialising in this shite, don't take that away from me haha.

[-]

Timely_Egg_6827@reddit

Appleton is the name of a Jamaican rum. It doesn't rule out from being English-English considering who originally owned the plantations.

Heathcote did first remind me of Heathcliff which is fine unless windswept, sadistic, despairing hero.

[-]

afcote1@reddit

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathcoat-Amory_baronets

So Heathcote/Heathcote

[-]

afcote1@reddit

Heathcoat

[-]

rising_then_falling@reddit

In the UK there are a (relatively) small number of aristocratic names - the family names of the great families of the country, many of which are slightly French sounding. You can just Google "aristocratic families of Britain", Wikipedia has a nice list.

Saxon names are not 'posh'. Saxons were replaced by Normans in 1066 and most high ranking saxons lost all their land, wealth, and status. Some was restored through marriages later, but most wasn't. Of course not all aristocracy stems from 1066 - plenty of commoners were raised to aristocratic status in later centuries, but Saxon names are generally seen as rural and old fashioned, not posh. The Anglo-Saxon didn't use surnames in the modern sense. They just had Christian names, and then a nickname or patronym if required.

An Anglo-Saxon name would be something like Oswald Godwinson. A more modern Saxon derived name would be Edmund Black (the Edmund with black hair) or Edith Wright.

Of your two options, both are place names used as surnames. Appleton is posher sounding to me though I can't say why. Neither is especially posh.

Asquith is a posh name beginning with A. Hervey (or Harvey), Howard, and Hardinge are posh H names.

[-]

afcote1@reddit

Not relatively few if you look at Burke’s landed gentry and some Saxon place names were taken by Norman families as their names - I have one such

[-]

thetobesgeorge@reddit

In addition to patronymics like Harrison (Son of Harry), you also have things like mine Harriman (Serf/Guard/etc working for Harry)

[-]

zephyrthewonderdog@reddit

More about the first names. You can have a really posh sounding surname but the first name(s) is more of a sign. Lots of first names is common for the upper classes: Sebastian Arthur Philip or William Henry John would be fairly posh. Any names that have been used for royalty is a safe bet.

Jimmy Doyle or Billy Doyle for example is probably working class. William James Arthur Doyle isn’t.

[-]

soopertyke@reddit

What is also important is that the Christian name matches the surname in terms of social status. Terrace but never terry, no Brandon's or Hunters Gary's or Steve's

[-]

MmmmHollandaise@reddit

If you use Heathcote you should know that it is correctly pronounced (in ‘posh’ circles at least) as ‘Hethc’t’

[-]

SilverellaUK@reddit

Which brings us to a really posh name, Urquhart, pronounced Urc't.

[-]

NewPower_Soul@reddit

If you need inspiration for a surname here, you may as well just write the novel via A.I. and have done with it..

[-]

ODFoxtrotOscar@reddit

Neither Appleton nor Heathcote sound particularly posh to me (though if you’re really choosing between the two, then I’d go for Heathcote)

Other ideas: a surname starting Fitz (there’s an illegitimate but acknowledged son of royalty in the family tree somewhere), a double barrelled name containing that’s Gough-(something), a suitable place name eg Mowbray, Stamford, Rutland

[-]

Down-Right-Mystical@reddit

Neither, to be honest. They both sound like made up names it someone was writing something set in the 1800's.

[-]

Familiar_Radish_6273@reddit

The Appleton sisters are in the band All Saints. Not at all posh.

[-]

shandybo@reddit

But also Canadian (not British!)

[-]

thetobesgeorge@reddit

Depending on time period also be aware that names like Wessex, Essex, Northumbria, etc are modern incarnations of the original Anglo-Saxon.
Wessex -> West Seaxe
Essex -> East Seaxe
Northumbria -> Land north of the (River) Humber

[-]

PerkeNdencen@reddit

Cuthbert is one of the few Anglo-Saxon (rather than French-ish) names I can think of that has posh vibes.

[-]

SuperTekkers@reddit

The proper posh names sound Norman, not Anglo-Saxon

[-]

Diplomatic_Gunboats@reddit

Go on Google maps, pick a large village/small town or borough, use that.

Otherwise anything with a St (saint) in front of it will do or double-barrelled.

St. Keverne for example. Or Wetheringsett.

[-]

Takver_@reddit

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Noble_families_of_the_United_Kingdom

I'd go with a double barrel or 'de __' name

Eg. de Lacy, Eden-Fortescue

[-]

WayGroundbreaking287@reddit

Anglo Saxons historically are not posh names. Anglo Saxons were the working class while the Normans were the upper class.

Of the two Appleton sounds more American but heathcote is also a common place name here. There is a school around the corner from me called heathcote.

If you are open to changes though just look up any number of our inbred ruling class. We have plenty of nobility that have been around for centuries. Even my own family name comes from William the conquers knights.

[-]

Shannoonuns@reddit

Anglo saxon names are not posh :') maybe like pre 16th century but they definitely haven't been posh for a couple hundred years at least.

I'd Google "Eaton alumni" for inspiration, thats like prestigious boys school where the royal family attends. They should give you some choice posh people surnames.

[-]

sossighead@reddit

Don’t mean to sound rude but I think you may need to do a bit more research if you think Anglo-Saxon = posh in English culture.

Generally Norman-French sounding names are considered posh and Anglo Saxon names are considered more common. This is the case with the language more broadly where Norman-French words dominate in law, politics and the military.

This is a good start I suppose 🤣

[-]

ddbbaarrtt@reddit

Appleton is absolutely not a posh sounding name to an English person, and for a certain generation will immediately make them think of the band All Saints

Likewise, Heathcote is not particularly posh sounding either

You need to differentiate what you mean by ‘upper class’ as well because: 1. That isn’t what Anglo-Saxon means, and 2. Upper class means something very different in the UK to US

[-]

Jo-Wolfe@reddit

As many have said, a Norman name is probably your best bet, have a look here Norman names

[-]

erinoco@reddit

I would go for Heathcote. Heathcote was not associated with the upper classes originally, being associated with the Midlands. But, in the late seventeenth and early eighteenth century, a Heathcote from Derbyshire became a very wealthy London merchant, serving as Governor of the Bank of England and Lord Mayor amongst other things. In the early nineteenth century, another unconnected Heathcote from Derbyshire became a wealthy lace manufacturer at Tiverton. In both cases, their descendants became landed gentry and intermarried with distinguished families, and one branch of the older Heathcotes ultimately became peers; so the name acquired an upper-class association.The Appleton name hasn't become intertwined with the upper classes to anything like the same extent.

These upper-class Heathcotes use the pronunciation given in another comment.

[-]

KatVanWall@reddit

I know à Heathcote from the Midlands! I don’t think he was particularly posh, though. Appleton makes me think of farmers.

[-]

coffeeebucks@reddit

It makes me think of All Saints, I don’t think I’ve ever met an Appleton in the wild

[-]

loaferuk123@reddit

Try Cholmondeley, pronounced “Chumly”.

[-]

Familiar_Radish_6273@reddit

That's too much though. It's cartoonishly posh

[-]

Boopmaster9@reddit

Smith-Smythe-Smith
Zinc-Trumpet-Harris
Incubator-Jones
Brook-Hampster or
St John-Mollusc.

[-]

NotABrummie@reddit

If you want something properly posh, it would be Norman French rather than Anglo-Saxon. Something like Fitzroy or Dubois.

[-]

nonsequitur__@reddit

Dubois reminds me of A Streetcar Named Desire

[-]

YourLittleRuth@reddit

You could try instead going the Georgette Heyer route and using place names. Hethersett. Wymondham (pronounced wind-um). Cardington. The ‘ing’ and ‘ton’ are very common, so is ‘ham’, and I think they are Anglo-Saxon. Just pick small places—Birmingham won’t strike anyone as aristocratic.

[-]

nonsequitur__@reddit

Appleton is a small place, but doesn’t sound posh. So will also depend on what is chosen.

[-]

SingerFirm1090@reddit

Featherstonehaugh & Cholmondeley.

[-]

nonsequitur__@reddit

I wouldn’t say either of those sound posh nor especially English, and I’ve never met a Heathcote.

[-]

Stevebwrw@reddit

I would suggest Heathcote-Amory. There is, or was, a Tory MP with this name. I think this comes over as quite posh and traditional.

[-]

Gold_Dragonfruit_180@reddit

Yep, Knightshayes Court in Tiverton, they owned most of the town.

[-]

sbaldrick33@reddit

Most posh names in this country world be Norman.

[-]

Gold_Dragonfruit_180@reddit

You might want to check out Heathcote as the family are West Country and might not like being used in a novel, all things considered.

[-]

AfraidOstrich9539@reddit

Samuel Wallenby-Smythe

[-]

Novaportia@reddit

If you're going really posh, go double-barrelled (interestingly the treason for lots of posh families having double-barrelled named is because their ancestors left their estate to them providing they used a certain name).

[-]

Miss-Hell@reddit

Why those names? Get another list together, these names are a bit meh.

[-]

Shawn_The_Sheep777@reddit

How about Randolph, Royce, Stanley, Ambrose, Davenport or Salisbury ?

[-]

fourlegsfaster@reddit

It may not matter to you, but Heathcote has a variety of pronunciations. It is often pronounced Hethcut.

[-]

Hamsternoir@reddit

A bit like Bucket.

[-]

ZoomByYak@reddit

There’s a prison in Appleton Thorn, as well as an Eddie Stobart logistics depot. Sorry, but that’s not post to me!

[-]

random_character-@reddit

Appleton-Heathcote-Smyth-Worthington

[-]

jamescoxall@reddit

Heathcote. Appleton just reminds me of the Appleton sisters who were in the 90s girl band All Saints, whereas I was up at prep school with a chap called Dickie Heathcote, he ended up an officer in the Army as I recall.

[-]