1990 Comparison Test: Full-Size Luxury Sedan Showdown
Posted by lifegoeson2702@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 82 comments
Posted by lifegoeson2702@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 82 comments
007meow@reddit
The OG LS truly was a marvel that came thundering onto the scene. Funny though that they complained about the grille - something that persists 35 years later.
The 0-60 times are funny though. Cars have gotten SO much faster.
Looptydude@reddit
When people make the comparison that American cars were slow and made less hp than a current civic, just link them this article and remind people we were all slow af back in the day
Misaniovent@reddit
What's really crazy is that only three years later, the Seville was making over 100 HP more. Things changed a lot in the 90s.
apuckeredanus@reddit
My '93 Mark VIII was 280 hp just three years later.
The 90s were a huge jump in power over just a decade
Misaniovent@reddit
That's a very cool car, and with a very advanced engine, if I understand right.
apuckeredanus@reddit
Thank you! I'll be buried in it lol.
An all aluminum dohc V8 was definitely high end tech for the american auto industry.
A virtually stock one was taken to 183 mph
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/that-time-lincoln-built-a-land-speed-mark-viii-and-set-a-182-mph-record-at-bonneville/
Misaniovent@reddit
That's awesome.
apuckeredanus@reddit
Hard to beat a 280hp RWD V8 coupe for the $1800 I paid
ChasedWarrior@reddit
People are so clueless as to how underpowered Malaise Era cars were. We were starting to come out of it in 1990, buy 2000 most V6 engines had around 200 hp, V8s had more.
PinkleeTaurus@reddit
I remember the company I worked for bought the all new V6 Camrys in 1992 and they drove like luxury cars compared to the other sedans of the times. Quicker than many "sporty" cars, quiet, smooth. I was so impressed I started buying Toyota stock that year.
Captain_Alaska@reddit
3rd gens basically are luxury cars. The 3rd gen is the only gen derived from the ES300 and not the other way around, and the ES300 shared a lot of its engineering with the LS400.
maduste@reddit
Infiniti Q45 the quickest at 7.9, brutal
Merc and BMW over 10…
apuckeredanus@reddit
My Lincoln was a rocketship at 6.6 seconds 0-60 in '93.
My dad scared the shit out of some friends in it at the time.
Funny how standards and perceptions change lol
maduste@reddit
yup, acceleration is cheap now
TopHatTony11@reddit
0-60 in under 6 was fast up until about 15 years ago. You had to get into a real performance machine to go that fast, now my big ass pickup is faster than that. The future is wild.
sherlocknoir@reddit
0-60 under 6 was still fast 5+ years ago. Both 2018 Accord 2.0T & V6 Camry could accelerate faster than expected.. and they would surprise a lot of sports cars. Especially the V6 Camaros, Mustangs, Chargers, etc.
As a Tesla owner I think what has happened over the past 5-10 years is that the acceleration of EVs has forced even quicker accelerating performance cars. Turbos + AWD have also contributed to the HP wars we now see going on.
It’s gotten so crazy that I’m actually debating what my next car will be.. and if 0-60 in 4 seconds might be a disappointment. Basically should I pay an extra $5K for the Performance version that does 0-60 in 2.9 seconds lol
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Ran4@reddit
15? Its fast today too. Most cars are slower than that. A new base t-roc does it in what, nine seconds?
Erigion@reddit
It's gonna be even crazier when EVs are the majority of the cars on the road. Everyone is gonna be able to do 0-60 in 5 seconds at the minimum.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
Meh capitalism will find ways to keep ICE performance unless you pay for the "performance sport" package (which all it does it change the cars software and which will be DRM to hell with govt on the automakers side)
woowoo293@reddit
0-60 under 6 is still fast. Full stop. There are just a ton of car options now that can achieve it. But 95% of the time, we're all perfectly served with 0-60 acceleration in the 7-9 second range.
HolyJazzCup@reddit
0-35/0-45 was more relevant, especially in something from 20-30 years ago that could not corner or brake as well as cars of today. Low end torque was the key with engines in older luxury vehicles before we got VVT, Direct Injection, and 5-6+ speed transmissions.
maduste@reddit
Yeah, that article came out when I was 17 and had a subscription to C&D!
I had a 2017 Civic Hatchback Sport with a manual for a few years. It was about as quick as Magnum’s Ferrari 308 that I grew up idolizing.
blueboatjc@reddit
“Cadillac's 4.5-liter V-8 has gained 25 horsepower for 1990—up to 180 hp now.”
Wild.
maduste@reddit
Exactly what the ‘17 Civic Hatchback Sport got out of the 1.5T 💀
bimmervschevy@reddit
18hp more than my ‘17 Focus with the 2.0 Mazda engine
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
Prime malaise era, torque but near f all power. The us cultural tie to the V8 is the only reason it survived, other countries would just have produced a new engine design to meet emissions but of a power capacity and making the same or more power in a lighter weight package.
an_actual_lawyer@reddit
To be fair to the S Class, you could always go pick up the 600 or 65 and be under 6 seconds.
maduste@reddit
yeah, true
JC-Dude@reddit
Huh? The modern Lexus grille is very distinctive.
hutacars@reddit
I think he means people complaining about Lexus grills persists.
bimmervschevy@reddit
Even with that massively slower acceleration, the top speeds aren’t that far off from today’s equivalents. Both the LS and Infiniti Q45 went over 150 MPH per the Car and Driver article, whereas the modern equivalent’s top speeds are closer to 175 MPH with a limiter delete.
mgobla@reddit
They are slower than a new base Corolla, base Mazda 3 , etc.
4r4r4real@reddit
"...the Jaguar is quick now"
0-60 in 9.6s lmao
ChasedWarrior@reddit
If they knew then what we know now about Lexus' grill they would have made compliments about the LS' OG one.
bimmervschevy@reddit
The Lexus’ Key to Success
Step 1. Be bubble economy Japan
Step 2. Have fucktons of money (see step 1)
Step 3. See Germany and mark them as a ‘Problem’
Step 4. Throw money at R&D
Step 5. When R&D finishes, throw the rest of the money at the ‘problem’
Step 6. Win
UniqueThanks@reddit
Whatever happened to the Lexus that made products like this? Those were the days. Zero excuses, zero compromises.
turb0_encapsulator@reddit
you mean like the LC500 that you can still buy today, at least for another year?
UniqueThanks@reddit
I mean I like the LC500, but it feels pretty outdated, just like the rest of their lineup
turb0_encapsulator@reddit
they updated the infotainment last year, which was the biggest issue. the NA V8 may be outdated compared to forced induction competitors, but in the best way.
su1ac0@reddit
MB fans have been asking the same thing since like 1997.
Simplest explanation is their entire model changed: "make the best car in the segment and then price it according to what it cost to make and still turn a profit"
In response to immediate disruption by Lexus, Infiniti, Acura they changed it to "price the car to be as competitive as possible, then R&D it and cut corners to keep it under the pre-determined price"
UniqueThanks@reddit
Daimler Chrysler happened haha. W220 started their downfall
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
MBAs probably Beancounters Japanese economic meltdown and deflation
turb0_encapsulator@reddit
where does the LS400 rank on the list of greatest cars ever made?
doctorcapslock@reddit
look at the body roll on those bad boys
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
Everyone is talking about Lexus, but man Infiniti was really in their element back in the 90s and 00s. Coming in 2nd here is no small feat. Especially considering it was the 2nd cheapest of the bunch, being around $4k less as-tested price than the LS too. If anything that makes the Infiniti coming in 2nd even more impressive.
I just wish we could get that Infiniti back.
BillNytheRussianSpy@reddit
Ghosn was the perfect guy to get Nissan/Infiniti focused and on their feet again, but the absolute worst post GFC recession. Imagine an M5-rival Q50 with the vr38 sans carbon fiber (i.e., a cheaper Eau Rouge concept), or keeping the QX lineup updated. Even the QX80 (a car in a class that's easy to sell stateside) didn't get a proper overhaul until the brand was near-death. Such a shame honestly.
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
Except this was in 1990 or 9 years before Ghosn even joined Nissan.
BillNytheRussianSpy@reddit
Not talking about the 90s. Was talking about the last point about wanting the old Infiniti back.
DocPhilMcGraw@reddit
Ok but I mentioned in my comment that they were in their element in the 90s and 00s. This comparison was done in 1990 which was 9 years before Ghosn even became in charge. So your assumption that Ghosn was responsible for Infiniti’s success is misguided.
BillNytheRussianSpy@reddit
What do you want me to say? Refocused instead of just focused? Say just Nissan? My penance for losing an internet point.
FromTheTopRope4224@reddit
A big man that resorts to blocking people before they can write back.
PabloIceCreamBar@reddit
Wild to think of leather being optional on an executive class vehicle.
Also, first time ever hearing of a Jaguar Sovereign.
blueboatjc@reddit
It’s just a slightly nicer version of the XJ6, basically a different trim level.
HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit
The UK version would probably have been badged Daimler, Daimler being above Jag in the posh hierarchy at the time and a step below rolls Royce but not by much
stratys3@reddit
Leather is for families, kids, and dogs. It's easy to clean and takes a beating. It's for the working man. Sometimes you need to sacrifice comfort and luxury for practicality and functionality, and so people get leather.
Metal_Massacre@reddit
Im pretty sure the top trim level of a Toyota Century is wool seats because it's cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter than leather which kind of makes sense. Also it's quieter.
392_hemi@reddit
I heard that rich folks in japan hated the sound of sliding their asses over leather and wool elimanted that 😂 something us poor peasants wouldn’t understand
BayLAGOON@reddit
Having sat in a friend's wool seat Century that they imported, I understand why the CEO of a small-medium Japanese company would pick that option.
HoodedHoodlum@reddit
That's because wool, especially/at least in Japan, is seen as luxurious as leather. Perhaps even more, since, unlike leather, wool is quiet, it does not squeeze or creak, it is not cold on a cold day, or burning an a hot day. Leather can also crack and tear with age and wear.
testthrowawayzz@reddit
Interesting to see the new Lexus ES is bigger than the original LS in every dimension
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
You know how people were complaining the other day about how magazines pushed luxury cars towards faux sportiness? This article is a great example of that. It's superbly written and bar the Cadillac all the cars are lovely, but why on earth is 1/3 of the test sportiness on luxury cars?
Vesploogie@reddit
Yes! Drove me crazy to read the Mercedes review. A luxury sedan on the Mount Rushmore of luxury sedans but it’s ranked second to last because it’s not “fun”. “Drives like a bank” and is clearly ranked as the most comfortable and spacious is great praise for what it is but this author didn’t know any better.
392_hemi@reddit
I mean car and driver and most magazines still do the same thing! Lexus LS is always at the bottom of the list just because it doesn’t have stupid power like 600+ hp , even to though it has nicer interior/ build quality than audis and bmws , and will easily last 25+ years while mercedes , audis and bmw will be in the junkyard
2011Mercury@reddit
"Neither the Lincoln Continental nor the new Town Car is sufficiently driver-oriented to make the cut."
That Town Car that "didn't make the cut" ended up winning Motor Trend Car of the Year.
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Beastbamboo@reddit
Agreed. While I would also rank the Lexus first in this comparison, the commentary on the rest of the cars seemed forced and missed the mark. Today the only ones I would consider would be the Lexus, the Mercedes and the BMW in that order. First gen Q45 wouldn't even cross my mind.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Yeah, the LS400 is just an absolute monster when it comes to luxury. The Q45 doesn't look bad either (excluding my love of woodgrain) but marking down the Mercedes for a lack of sportiness and the Audi up for being sporty without refinement is insanity
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4r4r4real@reddit
Because people who don't care about that aren't reading car mags for fun in their free time. This is decades before C&D was a research tool for buying a car anyone could quickly navigate on the internet. You weren't buying a subscription just hoping for a relevant review to your purchase decision to come across that month.
You read it because you were into cars, and car enthusiasts wanna go fast.
Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit
Back before the internet, car reviews were even more important though. If you didn't "know cars" they were one of the only sources of information
4r4r4real@reddit
Those people were buying a copy of consumer reports, not subscribing to car and driver
goaelephant@reddit
W126 for me
EngagedGroomsPodcast@reddit
Japanese cars in the late 80s to 90s were so ahead of the curve it’s insane. You see it in these power numbers - they aren’t even close.
Abba_Fiskbullar@reddit
Possibly the best car ever made won? What a surprise.
Otherwise_Rub_4557@reddit
No wonder Lexus had such success in the market, that is a grim selection.
The 7 series looks nice still but the rest just don't have the style of cars 5 years earlier or later. STS is a joke, Jag is boring compared to other XJs, infinity aged horribly.
granolaraisin@reddit
I had a 2001 or thereabouts Pontiac grand prix GTP (wide body!) with a 3.8L supercharged v6 that did 0-60 in 6.1 seconds or something like that. We thought it was so fast at the time. You had to go to try sports cars or m/amg/rs to go faster.
thedigitel@reddit
Those cars were so sick. I remember riding shotgun in my buddies blue one back in the day and thinking it was the fastest thing ever. The supercharger whine was epic.
bluffbuster@reddit
We are not just building a car. We are starting a war."
fair23@reddit
Not surprised at all..