Anon's take on Russia-EU relations

I remember that before invasion, the whole world was warming up to Russia. I remember seeing polls where even countries like Poland were seeing Russia positively.

They genuinely could start cooperating with the rest of the world and make average Russian life better, but no, instead they will send them to die in a war. And the worst thing, the young Russians are doing it with a smile, most of their population support this shit.

Everyone keeps saying "Russian people are ok, Russian government is not", it's Russian people AND Russian government.

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hotlinedanya@reddit

Plenty of people were against the war, but in the process of dwelling inside the Western and opposition web, Russians became "based". It is very hard to be kind on the internet and be against your own society when you are wished to die all over the world (except for Italian pensioners) and then... westoids silently watching when Israel bombs Iran (double standards).

So when Ukrainians all painted Russians as orcs... “If you were born an Orc, defend Mordor.”

I'm open to discussion on the matter.

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Tuero_Inore@reddit

They got the orc reputation for acting like orcs. Do orc stuff get orc treatment.

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hotlinedanya@reddit

Yeah, sure, source: “university of McDonalds”. If you falls for propaganda, so why Russians shouldn't? Unless you count Reddit as non-propaganda website, then LOL.

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Regular_Chap@reddit

Are you denying things like the Bucha massacre?

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hotlinedanya@reddit

I am denying things like Ghost of Kyiv.

So I am questioning Bucha at least.

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Regular_Chap@reddit

It's always good to question things when stories come out. Now it's been years and multiple different groups have investigated the evidence.

If you still don't think a horrific massacre happened there at the hands of Russians you aren't just "questioning it" you are just stuffing your head in to the sand and screaming "RUSSIANS CAN DO NO HARM"

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hotlinedanya@reddit

No matter how it sounds, war crimes are being committed by both sides. It is foolish to deny this fact.

My problem is that the reaction of the international community is insufficient when "committing a massacre". The investigations were conducted by journalists, but there were no statements from ICC. Therefore, I take any messages from 2022 Ukraine with due skepticism.

Don't get me wrong, but when the ICC investigated the Srebrenica massacre, there was a lot more media noise. I refuse to believe that Ukraine and its allies would not have turned this into an information bomb much bigger than the one that was.

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SCARfaceRUSH@reddit

>Everyone keeps saying "Russian people are ok, Russian government is not", it's Russian people AND Russian government.

That's what people in the West don't get. Ask anyone with an iota of history knowledge from any country neighboring Russia. "Not all Russians are bad" is a statement true enough, but it's completely useless. Those "not all Russians" don't have any say in what their government, supported by the majority, is doing. If you have a spoon of honey and put it into a bucket of shit, you still have a bucket of shit. Sleep-deprived Ukrainians due to constant air raids who lose their loved ones, homes, and future prospects absolutely don't care about whatever goodness is left in a portion of the Russian population. Just like Allies didn't care that there were "good Germans" - it was not about that. It was about stopping a genocidal megalomaniac.

Moral high ground is reserved for people who never struggled in their life.

It's not Putin's war. It's Russia's war. It's an expansionist, colonialist state with hundreds of years of wars on its record. Some people in the West choose to ignore that because Russians didn't cross the ocean to oppress and ethnically cleanse people, who also weren't "brown", so I guess that doesn't count. But they're an empire. One that's genociding Ukraine right now, as per the official UN definition of what a genocide is (the tick all the boxes on the list there).

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KillahHills10304@reddit

I think it's built into the Russians. The "such is life" mindset is so deeply ingrained in them, once things start looking up, they sabotage everything going in their favor. Life must be suffering, as positivity might lead to a different way of thinking- dare I say, a western way of thinking.

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gurush@reddit

Exactly, Russians got so much used to suffering that they promoted it to something virtuous and necessary.

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SilliusS0ddus@reddit

Not like this kind of attitude isn't prevalent in the west too.

We got a bunch of people actively trying to make the world worse.

Those people are coincidentally also the ones who usually want to cooperate with Russia.

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Boring-Original-2968@reddit

It's cope due to self enforced helplessness. This is further reinforced by corruption.

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AaronRodgersMustache@reddit

The "Long Telegram" from George Kennan has head true to me in every respect. Here's a link. It's comprehensive in going through Russian's history to why they are how they are even to current day. Always an exceptional read.

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/coldwar/documents/episode-1/kennan.htm

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Setkon@reddit

They are correct in this.

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RatherGoodDog@reddit

when the name of your entire ethnic group is "slaves"

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FinancialElephant@reddit

> poshlost intensifies

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NumerousCarob6@reddit

Don't you think Destokvsvy and Russian life pessimism are born due to war machine.

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OneEnvironmental9222@reddit

the perfect cattles for a dictator

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easterner1848@reddit

They are a people of genetic insuperiors.

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KillahHills10304@reddit

You've got pockets of these types in western societies, but there's a lot more of their shitty cousin- the types who sincerely believe other people's lives becoming miserable will make their life better (it doesn't, they just become more miserable themselves then demand things get even worse).

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OneEnvironmental9222@reddit

now that you say it like that you just described the boomers in my country and how they always vote against things that would help the average person. Everything to secure their tiny retirement money I guess?

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AvidCyclist250@reddit

The "such is life" mindset is so deeply ingrained in them

It is pathetic and it's why is detest "hopeless" self-pitying, pseudo-tough pessimists.

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OneEnvironmental9222@reddit

Russia is a perfect example of a brainwashed socieity. Its genuine scary to see them praising it. The steam forums everytime you see russians speak about anything hinting at the invasion they will always praise it and calling others animals.

They really think we can't just translate their stuff or something.

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Vulpes_Lourens@reddit

Oh my, we have a free thinker. His brain is so smooth, that it cannot be washed at all.

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Awoo-56709-@reddit

I support the opposite of the current thing!

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reddit_has_fallenoff@reddit

I remember that before invasion, the whole world was warming up to Russia.

Reddit has been bitching about them non stop since 2016. They are the leftist boogeyman secretly behind every single world leader and event.

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SilveryWar@reddit

warming up

2000 sanctions

with this kind of optimism, i cant fucking tell if you are an EUtard or a Russitard

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NegativeVega@reddit

Sanctions since 2014 yes. I dont think they had that many before crimea.

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NegativeVega@reddit

Anyone who says that has not interacted with russian's. The fish rots from the head down but that doesnt mean the rest of the fish is all okay

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DroidLord@reddit

Oftentimes the government is a reflection of the people.

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CrestonSpiers@reddit

The problem is that Russians are black-pilled. They see the situation they’re stuck in. They know perfectly well that their government kills their own people, that the officials are corrupt, that they spread fake news in the media. Those who deny it just lie to themselves, deep down everyone knows what’s going on, but they can’t do anything about it, or at least have no will to do anything.

They justify it as “The whole world is shit, America and Europe are no better. What am I going to do? I don’t wanna get arrested, I value my life too much. This works fine”.

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RDUKE7777777@reddit

Blackpilled / die for your dictator in a stupid war

Chose one

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ballysham@reddit

I blame the yanks.

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Epictetus190443@reddit

the young Russians are doing it with a smile

Source: Your ass?

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Turtle_Rain@reddit

“The greatest freedom to come to Russia is the freedom to leave”

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Sharky-Li@reddit

The big picture situation is basically the same as if Russia decided to start putting nukes in Mexico and the US invaded Mexico to prevent that. If Ukraine had joined NATO the fear was that there would be nukes in a country bordering Russia which is why the chief demand from Russia was that Ukraine can't join NATO.

There's evidence the CIA had over a dozen bases in Ukraine since 2014 so it's likely they were instigating the whole thing since a proxy war allows the US to drain Russian supplies and manpower without actually going to war. Indeed Russia is weaker and the only thing the US did was give them some surplus weapons.

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splendidpluto@reddit

All the "Ok" Russians left Russia a long time ago.

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TheBoromancer@reddit

These padawans are strong with the force, of propaganda.

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Efficient_Rise_4140@reddit

It's sad, but predictable. No one ever mentions Russia's involvement in Africa, which is still going on today. They have been commiting atrocities you would except to only happen a hundred years ago.

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Ovfrost@reddit

What makes you think more gas & oil sales would benefit regular russians? Most of these profits would go straight into the pocket of the right people, like it always has been.

As for the young russians doing it - yeah, mostly those living in distant poor regions, those with zero education, so that they could actually have a go at life, because the job pays like 5-6 times more than they could ever make monthly. Those are also easily brainwashed.

An average middle-class educated russian is probably against it, but doesn't tell anyone but like-minded friends. Nowadays, he is trying to live his normal life, not even thinking about what's going on out there. All the words have been said, and all the ties have been broken during the first year. Now, the cruel rational part of the brain kicks in, which implies that life must continue.

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Mrest@reddit

Lmao, what the fuck is either of those posts? Sell gas? Make money? Good for country and People? Damn, whatever happened to that pest pootin and his "oligarch" mafia constantly robbing us blind all hour the day and night? Curious.

White people, not even once.

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Fancy-Ticket-261@reddit

Oh hey, that's my post

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Nigarun@reddit (OP)

Thank you for your service.

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Cliveburr@reddit

You know im gonna play the devil's advocate but why russia as a state would throw all this out the window (no pun intented) ? And I mean come on the arguement that putin is mad evil horny devil is just ridiculous, so why? Maybe just maybe pushing NATO all the way up to ukraine was really an existential threat to Russia as they have multiple times said and a line that could not just be crossed? Russia is not innocent but come on the west knew this was gonna happen and kept pushing for it anyway.

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colerino4@reddit

It's because if Ukraine became a western country Russians would slowly realize their mafia ran state is shit and would want a similar westernization, threatening all the oligarcs.

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Cliveburr@reddit

That is even more ridiculous than believing putin is the devil incarnate. Like honestly i dont even know what to say.

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Mohwi@reddit

No point in arguing common sense with media goyslop watchers. Politics are portrayed as a cartoon to them, you’re either cartoonishly good or cartoonishly evil.

Sure Russia isn’t justified in its invasion, but if you think it’s just evil expansionism you’re either stupid or brain washed

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AudeDeficere@reddit

The government that had the leading opposition figure murdered in view of the red palace ( explicit ties to Kadyrov aka Putins dog among the men who were charged with all this openly noted in the internal Russian investigation), the government who has poisoned a previous Ukrainian head of state, the government whose lists of murdered notable names and suicides keeps growing longer and longer, the government that keeps one of the most recourse rich states comparatively poor, the government that has yet another leading opposition leader poisoned before arguably murdering him in prison - that’s the government you deem to be above ruthless self preservation?

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AudeDeficere@reddit

You are looking at the wrong ideas. Putin is a dictator. First he was a KGB Officer in the GDR. Saw the fall of the iron curtain. Then FSB director in the 1990s. That amount of paranoia is a lot. That man feared Ukraine joining the EU. It was never about NATO which barley had any troop presence in Eastern Europe prior to 2022. Just look at North Korea. Untouchable. Hence why the escalation didn’t follow NATO ( Ukraine was barred from joining via France and Germany ) but the potential EU membership and escalates when Zelensky is willing to settle the proxy war aka give up Ukrainian land in exchange for peace since the fighting has already died down. Putin saw Afghanistan, he saw his puppet parties success in Europe and he saw the pandemic. He made a move, he was wrong. He had not been wrong before.

You judge Moscow like an actor who gives a damn about the Russians. It should instead be seen like an actor who is more than willing to sell their own people to China as long as it keeps power. The entire imperialist propaganda is brilliant in that way. Sells the commoners a narrative. Sure, it appeals to the old hardliners. But at the core? Putin decided to destroy west Germany so his GDR would never have an example of a better alternative with extremely close cultural ties.

Doesn’t mean this was the only reason. There are certainly various factions at play. But too often all I talked about is not even mentioned while arguably being fundamental to the entire affair.

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Nigarun@reddit (OP)

And now Russia ended up with Finland and Sweden in NATO instead. Bravo.

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saldas_elfstone@reddit

For those two it was just a formality really. They were 3/4 in already.

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Nigarun@reddit (OP)

There were literally never interested in joining until 2022.

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saldas_elfstone@reddit

That's BS of the highest order. Preparations for joining were being made since accession to the EU in 1995. Public opinion was against it but since 2014 the media had been actively preparing the ground.

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Catmantas@reddit

I wonder what happened in 2014 🤔

Oh thats right, russian annexation of Crimea. Really makes those almonds spin

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Awoo-56709-@reddit

I wonder what happened in 2014

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saldas_elfstone@reddit

A successful violent overthrow of legitimately elected government in Ukraine by Nuland and co. That allowed the U.S. to leverage its influence and apply pressure in the neighbouring regions.

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Awoo-56709-@reddit

Also a forceful and illegal overtake of Crimean peninsula bu Russia, which you've conveniently forgot to mention, forcing previously neutral countries like Finland to reconsider their stance. But that's besides the point

The fact you're using Nuland's leaked call as a proof of "US lead coup" just shows how shallow your understanding of this topic is. If you ever bothered to actually listen to the whole thing, trace the names mentioned and analyze it properly, you'd realize that, if anything, it proves the exact opposite. But that requires effort, and brainpower - why do that if you can just listen to a grifter like Dave Smith, right? He's so smart and insightful, and definitely not getting paid for his opinions!

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saldas_elfstone@reddit

You are funny. She was overt about it. Bragged that she spent $5 billion on the overthrow, to boot. It's not like it's a secret. The Russians warned about Ukraine, it fell on deaf ears. Then you give a surprised pikachu face. Fafo, I guess.

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Awoo-56709-@reddit

Care to share a quote of Nulland bragging about "spending $5 billion on the overthrow, to boot"? Do you seriously believe 5 fucking billion would be even close to enough in order to orchestrate a revolution in a country of 40+ million people? It would be a challenge to do so in a banana republic with a total population of ten goat farmers, let alone the biggest country in Europe. How do you convince several millions of regular people to engage in violent protests for more than 3 months? CIA brainwaves?
Also, notice how russian propaganda insists on calling Maidan revolution "a coup", even though it doesn't fit the definition of the word at the slightest. A coup is a government takeover by a small group, usually the military or secret service. When you have close to a million people fighting policeman on the streets all over the country, that's a revolution. But guys in Kremlin know that in a mind of an average Joe like you, "coup" sounds really bad and illegal, but "revolution" is not necessary so. So "coup" it is.
Also, why when US does something bad, its obviously their fault, but when Russia does the same AND worse, it means that "the West provoked them", they "were forced to". Why do you keep treating russians as wild animals who simply don't know better? No amount of foreign pressure can force you to invade a neighboring country, I'm sorry.

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saldas_elfstone@reddit

I am not your search engine, my guy.

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Awoo-56709-@reddit

I'm glad that this is the best reply you could come up with.
Also, I did find it. Nuland talks about USA investing a total of 5 billion dollars into Ukraine in form of foreign investment in a period since 1991 to 2014, which is a pittance for America. Just for comparison, U.S. foreign direct investment was 348.78 billion US dollars for 2023 alone which is actually sharp decline from the previous years. If you believe this points to U.S. financing a coup in Ukraine, you're just retarded, no offense

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saldas_elfstone@reddit

Whatever gets you off, I suppose. Sleep tight.

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observee21@reddit

It sounds like you really need to believe that

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saldas_elfstone@reddit

I don't need to, mate. I've seen it unfold.

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observee21@reddit

How strange that we live in two totally different realities but share the same internet

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saldas_elfstone@reddit

Internet creates these different realities for you to be lost in. Trust your own senses and judgement, not what you find on the Internet.

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ipmanvsthemask@reddit

They've been saying since 2008 that Ukraine is their redline, my guy. Finland and Sweden just don't matter as much.

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Cliveburr@reddit

Literally made no difference since they were already completely aligned with NATO, they just weren't formally members come on...

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Nigarun@reddit (OP)

made no difference So Ukraine should't make a difference as well, right? :^)

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Cliveburr@reddit

Wow you are so smart ))) Didn't you read in the first comment bro, it made a huge difference, Ukraine was part of Russa for so long, they were aligned to them even if it was via the influence they exerted to them, it was a red line and they have said it multiple times , it is not the same.

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Nigarun@reddit (OP)

Ukraine was part of Russa for so long, they were aligned to them

So was Finland. And?

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PleasingPotato@reddit

Finland was never part of the USSR, geographically much less important than Ukraine, and they have close to no cultural overlap with no Russian loyalists wanting integration.

That's some pretty fucking massive differences.

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Nigarun@reddit (OP)

geographically much less important than Ukraine

With Finland in NATO, NATO is kilometers away from St. Petersburg and could blow it to kingdom come with short range missiles.

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VampiroMedicado@reddit

Man Europe is tiny AF any nuke would dissapear 1/4 of the continent.

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Cliveburr@reddit

If you can't see for yourself that it's not the same at all I wont be able to convince you my friend.

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Mohwi@reddit

1 battle front is better than 2

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XanII@reddit

We flipped almost overnight from 30-70 to 70-30 in support. Nato resistance was fierce, ingrained. All that crumbled in a very short time.

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ManchurianCandycane@reddit

NATO would need to actively retreat to not push up against Russia. Russia is pushing all their neighbors away towards NATO, and always has been.

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ipmanvsthemask@reddit

Maybe just maybe pushing NATO all the way up to ukraine was really an existential threat to Russia

It might or might not be true. But they've been consistently saying it since 2008.

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Lineaal@reddit

Totally worth the 1 million+ casualties, without any concrete plans. It would make more sense if Russia warned the West that they would invade. But no they played the SPECIAL MILITARY OPERATION. They are too scared to call it a war or invasion, why did they have to lie about it? It's all the Ruzzian slave can do

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GrAdmThrwn@reddit

Ah yes. 1 gorillion casualties. Source? The guy they're fighting. If you really believe that then you'll believe anything because that requires you to ignore critical thinking.

Artillery advantage, drone advantage, missile advantage, glide bomb advantage. In what universe does the side with that much long range firepower lose more people than the side on the defensive hunkered down in places within range of almost every single tool in the Russian arsenal?

Also they did warn the West lol. They provided an ultimatum like 3 months prior to the invasion.

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snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit

Massive gas fields were discovered in Eastern Ukraine, which would severely undermine the Russian monopoly on selling gas. The primary one is off of the coast of Crimea, and the second is near Donetsk.

This was a large reason why the West helped foment Maidan.

This isn't the only case either.

The West supporting "rebel groups" (read: terrorists) in Syria is also entirely due to wanting to undermine Russia's gas monopoly. The Qatari gas pipeline, which would run through Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Turkey, was proposed 20 years ago but veto'd by Assad, because he was a close ally of Russia.

However, Ukraine's proposed acceptance into NATO happened before natural gas fields were discovered in Ukraine, it was entirely political, and the west 100% knew the consequences would likely be outright civil war in the country.

William J. Burns, who would later become the director of the CIA under Joe Biden, was the US ambassador to Russia at the time that NATO was planning to announce at the 2008 Bucharest summit.

In a leaked classified cable, he explains the concerns internally within Russia and Ukraine.

"Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face."

Many academics in the west also correctly blamed the west for the events in Ukraine back in 2014 (see: John Mearsheimer), and predicted eventual war involving Russia.

Wait sorry I meant haha funny meme Jesse we haf to cook

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ukrainehurricane@reddit

Holy fuck the iraq war and its consequences has been a disaster for Amerifat understanding of geopolitics. War is just about oil and NATO bad is your entire snooth brained take. Or you are a fellow citizen of texas oblast where there are many warm water ports!

EUROMaidan was never about NATO. It was about the EU Ukraine Association Agreement.

Russia embargoed Ukraine because Ukraine wanted to sign the EU Agreement.

Russia then bought Ukraine for 15 billion dollars so that it would STOP the EU agreement.

Also Ukraine was constitutionally Neutral. There was no aspirations to join NATO in 2013-2014

Ukraine would never join NATO even after russia invaded in 2014. Frau Merkel made sure of that.

People have a real problem with linear time and would rather live in fantasy world that confirms their bias than look at what actually happened.

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Appropriate_Gear4632@reddit

He is not mad devil he is just another old schizo.

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Tuero_Inore@reddit

I really dislike this argument because it supposes nato is an organization tasked with invading Russia. The existential threat to Russia is that they will stop being an imperial power and be forced to act their size, that’s it.

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Cliveburr@reddit

And tell my why should russians not suppose that? Why this whole eastward expansion and encirclement? How do you think it makes them feel? Threatened and cut off.

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Tuero_Inore@reddit

Yeah it makes them feel threatened they will no longer be able to bully their neighbors into servitude as they did for the last three centuries.

I understand your point and I feel there would be value behind it if russian policy wasn’t so utterly doomed. Demographics alone have doomed the Russian state into irrelevancy

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Cliveburr@reddit

What do demographics have to do with any of this?

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Tuero_Inore@reddit

Russia will cease to exist as a major nation within the century. Attempting to be a us rival with 50mil old people is not a good idea.

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Cliveburr@reddit

What the hell are you talking about? How is this in any way relatable to the ukraine conflict and the NATO perceived threat?

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SkrallTheRoamer@reddit

NATO isnt pushing anyone, russia is pushing countries to join NATO because they are such shitty neighbours.

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Jarmonaator@reddit

Lowkey true

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snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit

Not really true at all, just a classic massive caricature of the history of the often escalatory and adversarial relationship between Europe and the USSR (and later Russia) since WW2. I'd call it an oversimplification if anons like this even knew a little about eastern Europe or had even heard about Ukraine before 2014/2022

Directly relevant to the meme though:

Massive gas fields were discovered in Eastern Ukraine, which would severely undermine the Russian monopoly on selling gas. The primary one is off of the coast of Crimea, and the second is near Donetsk.

This was a large reason why the West helped foment Maidan.

This isn't the only case either.

The West supporting "rebel groups" (read: terrorists) in Syria is also entirely due to wanting to undermine Russia's gas monopoly. The Qatari gas pipeline, which would run through Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Turkey, was proposed 20 years ago but veto'd by Assad, because he was a close ally of Russia.

However, Ukraine's proposed acceptance into NATO happened before natural gas fields were discovered in Ukraine, it was entirely political, and the west 100% knew the consequences would likely be outright civil war in the country.

William J. Burns, who would later become the director of the CIA under Joe Biden, was the US ambassador to Russia at the time that NATO was planning to announce at the 2008 Bucharest summit.

In a leaked classified cable, he explains the concerns internally within Russia and Ukraine. It's worth reading the whole thing to see the US's knowledge of the concerns, real and perceived, in both countries if NATO were to allow Ukraine to join. A small excerpt:

"Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia's influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face."

Many academics in the west also correctly blamed the west for the events in Ukraine back in 2014 (see: John Mearsheimer), and predicted eventual war involving Russia.

Wait sorry I meant haha funny meme Jesse we haf to cook

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skoldpaddanmann@reddit

I'm with you I'm not sure why people are surprised that Russia attacked. It's super common for countries in death spirals to use war to try and bolster the country. Russia is clearly in a rapid decline. They keep sacrificing their youth to wars, and the smart people fled the country years ago. They have a gdp about equal with Italy with 3x the people.

To combat their rapid decline they try and do it the only the only way they can. Acquisition of resources through war as they have little power on the world stage outside war. Without nuclear deterrents Russia is basically just another poor midsize country.

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pbaagui1@reddit

I ain't reading allat

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snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit

>Most literate American

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pbaagui1@reddit

I'm a Mongol, nice try

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blbobobo@reddit

we made a slur for you people, you’re not doing your reputation any favors lmao

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pbaagui1@reddit

Love you too

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Darthblaker7474@reddit

uhhhh eeeyyyy urrrr neeeey

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gurush@reddit

Ukrainian people wanting a closer relationship with the EU is somehow a Western fault

Many academics in the West are hacks (see: John Mearsheimer).

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snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit

Many academics in the West are hacks (see: John Mearsheimer).

Guy who has been consistently right for 20+ years, has repeatedly called out the Israeli lobby (which made him a personal target of AIPAC and many politicians and western media outlets) is actually a total hack guys

Don't listen to anything he said!

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DonnieMoistX@reddit

“Guy who agrees with my opinions is consistently right”

Boy, funny how that works.

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snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit

"Guy who consistently criticizes Israel is considered a hack by braindead Americucks"

Boy, funny how that works.

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DonnieMoistX@reddit

Whatever you have to tell yourself

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gurush@reddit

consistently right for 20+ years

lol

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EdliA@reddit

A very long rant and bs to ultimately say Ukraine should get permission to Russia for its own gas. At the end of the day Ukraine is an independent country. Having competition in the open market is not justification for war and invasion.

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6ArtemisFowl9@reddit

If I'm understanding correctly, what ultimately compelled Russia to act is the gear of encirclement by NATO by virtue of bordering countries joining, and the fear that Ukrainian russians might rebel in case Ukraine ever gets accepted into NATO, and that the gas fields discovery were something that was added on top afterwards?

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FeeblyBee@reddit

No, those are the lies that Russians and anti-American Americans tell to give excuses for invading a neighboring country

NATO encirclement is an absurd concept. Russia already bordered NATO countries, with their 2nd largest city being within good ground-based rocket artillery range. Their chimp out in Ukraine only compelled Sweden and Finland to join out of fear, increasing the border with NATO several times over. And yet they emptied their bases on the Finnish border of troops and hardware to send it to Ukraine. Seems the russians themselves are not afraid of a NATO incursion from Finland, proving that they were lying all along

And for that matter who wanted to invade Russia, a state with supposedly the biggest nuclear arsenal on the planet?

the fear that Ukrainian russians might rebel

There was no ethnic conflict in Ukraine before the Russians started fomenting it. Literally never happened before they started importing their little green men, FSB agents like Igor Girkin and start running their propaganda mills to turn ukrainian countrymen in the east against their own nation. The excuse of supporting "separatist" movements coincidentally and conveniently happens every single time the russians invade or carve out a piece of a neighboring country, Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova, and so on. It's a classic move that they used since Stalin

the gas fields

[-]

6ArtemisFowl9@reddit

Oh don't get me wrong, I agree that the encirclement and fear of rebellion are ridiculous reasons at best, especially since so many of the countries joining NATO are former USSR members, they wouldn't be joining their direct competitors' group if they had a favorable impression of them, no? I was trying to ask if I read correctly the post since it's not very clear. Though I will say that the gas fields may be a secret reason for the war while the government uses nationalism as a pretext.

[-]

FeeblyBee@reddit

While the gas fields COULD be an ELEMENT in the whole war (because even in ideological or religious wars there will always be some people on the side making a buck from it), and even if for the sake of the argument we assume that it's the ONLY reason for the war, the problem still remains that the brain broken burgers who keep repeating this cope have the exact same mentality as the katsaps; that they're the only players in this game.

Germany, against the wishes of Washington that (in retrospect, correctly) warned them of creating a dependence on Russia with strategic resources, went full steam ahead with Nordstream and importing cheap russian gas. They went above Eastern European countries that were warning them of this as well. How exactly would Ukraine be a threat to them if they already had a eye-wateringly expensive infrastructure set up for importing specifically cheap russian gas? And again, how exactly does this dumbfuck war address this? Now Europe has found alternative partners, and even before was for decades on a road to replace fossil fuels with renewables anyway. And now in a crisis situation the discussion around nuclear power is also shifting, so decreasing oil/gas dependence was probably even further accelerated by the Very Special Military Operation. How exactly does Ukraine having fossil fuels threaten Russia, whose main export partner was Europe that was decreasing dependence on fossil fuels?

It's the same thing with NATO membership. No matter how many times obnoxious r e t a r d s like Dave Smith / Scott Horton / John Mearshimer repeat it, it isn't the sole decision of amerifats with their dreaded State Department / CIA puling the strings and crowning Ukraine as a russoid killer NATO member. Germany, France, Turkey, Hungary, now also Slovakia, have been for years consistently against NATO membership, where the agreement for accepting a new member needs to be unanimous. Oh, but let me guess, a super powerful empire like America will simply tell its vassal states how to vote, and if they so wish for Ukraine to become a NATO member, it will happen? Yeah, just like Germany not becoming dependent on Russian gas, right? Lmao. You see the issue. Russia has vassal states. The USA, at least in Europe, has wiling partners, who at the end of the day can do whatever the fuck they want

[-]

FeeblyBee@reddit

No, those are the lies that Russians and anti-American Americans tell to give excuses for pillaging a neighboring country

NATO encirclement is an absurd concept. Russia already bordered NATO countries, with their 2nd largest city being within good ground-based rocket artillery range. Their chimp-out in Ukraine only compelled Sweden and Finland to join out of fear, increasing the border with NATO several times over. And yet they emptied their bases on the Finnish border of troops and hardware to send it to Ukraine. Seems the russians themselves are not afraid of a NATO incursion from Finland, proving that they were lying all along

[-]

DonnieMoistX@reddit

Aka “No we promise gas and conquering people really had nothing to do with it”

You can tell the message they’re trying to push when they blame the west for the events of 2014.

[-]

DonnieMoistX@reddit

Aka “No we promise gas and conquering people really had nothing to do with it”

You can tell the message they’re trying to push when they blame the west for the events of 2014.

[-]

FeeblyBee@reddit

No, those are the lies that Russians and anti-American Americans tell to give excuses for raping and pillaging a neighboring country

NATO encirclement is an absurd concept. Russia already bordered NATO countries, with their 2nd largest city being within good ground-based rocket artillery range. Their chimpout in Ukraine only compelled Sweden and Findland to join out of fear, increasing the border with NATO several times over. And yet they emptied their bases on the Finnish border of troops and hardware to send it to Ukraine. Seems the russians themselves are not afraid of a NATO incursion from Finland, proving that they were lying all along

And for that matter who the fuck wanted to invade Russia, a state with supposedly the biggest nuclear arsenal on the planet?

the fear that Ukrainian russians might rebel There was no ethnic conflict in Ukraine before the Russians started fomenting it. Literally never happened before they started importing their little green men, FSB agents like Igor Girkin and start running their propaganda mills to turn ukrainian countrymen in the east against their own nation. The excuse of supporting "separatist" movements coincidentally and conveniently happens every single time the Russoids invade or carve out a piece of a neighboring country, Georgia, Chechnya, Moldova, and so on.

And the gas fields cope is just a amerimutt fantasy who are still traumatized by their middle-east desert adventures, and see every single conflict in history through muh oil and other resource / money based evaluations. The Russians themselves have never said a single fucking thing about Ukraine being a gas competitor. Every single aspect of their narrative revolves around Ukraine being rightfully Russian

[-]

DonnieMoistX@reddit

Literally just Russian propaganda

[-]

snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit

Yep, that leaked internal classified memo written by the dude who would eventually go on to be the Director of the CIA was actually typed up by Putin the propaganda master himself

[-]

DonnieMoistX@reddit

The perfect deflection. Using one example of something accurate to justify the other copious amounts of bullshit that surrounds it.

Yeah man, trying to frame 2014 as the west’s fault is definitely not a propaganda effort.

[-]

trainderail88@reddit

You're trying to see things in black and white but that is not the case in either example. Western intelligence agencies were involved in Maidan. That doesn't mean it was a purely fabricated coup, there was a large fraction of the country that wanted a pro-western government so the CIA helped facilitate it.

Pearl Harbor was partially our fault. We tried to dictate Japanese foreign policy by colluding with Europe to embargo vital resources Japan needed. We left them with the choice of ending a war they were winning on unfavorable terms or starting a new war with us. Both Russia and Japan are responsible for their choices but we can't act like we did not influence the course of events.

[-]

DonnieMoistX@reddit

And Poland is partially to blame for their invasion by the Nazis for not handing over the territory they wanted right?

Not bowing down to unreasonable or unacceptable actions doesn’t make something your fault. You’re just saying “it’s your fault I robbed you because you wouldn’t hand me your wallet” but on a global scale.

[-]

trainderail88@reddit

To add to what you said, invading makes perfect real politik sense. NATO is openly adversarial to Russia, in fact it exists solely to thwart Russian feel politics. They could not allow Ukraine to host enemy bases so close to the very heart of Russia. If China tried to bring Mexico into a military pact, we'd invade too, and Mexico doesn't even have a 1000 year history of being part of America.

[-]

mintnoises@reddit

somebody cooked here

[-]

FeeblyBee@reddit

Yeah, cooked a bunch of Kremlin manufactured lies. You hear the same shit said in russian on russian state tv. This is just translated to english. Or copy pasted from the cum/chug/gers, lmao

[-]

snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit

Yeah, cooked a bunch of Kremlin manufactured lies.

Yeah bud, the Kremlin manufactured the US funding rebels in Syria (which we openly admit we did), the openly proposed and then veto'd plan for the Qatari Pipeline, and the internal classified US memo by William Burns, who literally went on to be the director of the CIA, not just some nobody

[-]

FeeblyBee@reddit

Bro, you just used John Mearsheirmer as a source on the Ukraine-Russia war, you have no idea how get to western sources that aren't shilling a narrative favorable to the Kremlin. Let me guess, you trust the Director of National Intelligence, and Bashar al GASsad fan Tulsi Gabbard who makes tiktoks calling Zelensky a dictator? GTFO. If I wanted to hear Dave Smith's script I would just listen to his dumbfuck videos

[-]

snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit

>every source you use is Russian propaganda

>if the source is actually not Russian at all, and it still disagrees with me, that source is also just "saying a narrative favorable to the Krelmin", i.e. it disagrees with me, and you aren't allowed to do that

>I will also continue to ignore leaked classified US documents written long before the war played out that predicted this whole shit show, because this too, is "favorable to the Kremlin"

>In this house we only watch MSNBC/Fox/CNN and eat 3 square meals a day of the TRUTH, no objective facts that counter my narrative are allowed

lmao

again

American try not to say "Russian bot" when confronted with objective facts from western sources challenge: impossible

[-]

FeeblyBee@reddit

You're not an American? Got you info from the Hindustan Times, perhaps?

[-]

FeeblyBee@reddit

Bro, you just used fucking John Mearsheirmer as a source on the Ukraine-Russia war, you have no idea how get to western sources that aren't shilling a narrative favorable to the Kremlin. Let me guess, you trust the Director of National Intelligence, and Bashar al GASsad fan Tulsi Gabbard who makes tiktoks calling Zelensky a dictator? Fuck outta here

[-]

forward_only@reddit

No dude, don't you see that by actually spending the time to educate yourself on the region and its history, you have committed a bigotry? Don't you see that considering literally any aspect of grand strategy makes you a homophobe? You are citing many facts and perspectives that are true, yet inconvenient to my narrative that the United States and NATO should conquer and subjugate the world through indiscriminate carpet bombing, so I have no choice but to accuse you of desemininating malinformation.

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FlashAttack@reddit

Mearsheimer is a bonafide retard and so are you

[-]

TheBoromancer@reddit

Thought the US blew up that pipeline though?

[-]

BornWithSideburns@reddit

You people need to make up your mind. Was it the Ukrainians or was it the US.

Both cases are clearly equally irrelevant tho.

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Doctah_Fauci@reddit

US propaganda is all about making proxies seem like autonomous and independent entities. Oh no, Israel(not America) is bombing Iran. In reverse situations like Hamas(Iranian funded) media will remind you nonstop that Hamas is in fact Iran. Stop falling for it.

[-]

gurush@reddit

Russian propaganda is all about making US allies seem like puppets with no own agenda (Russians are unable to comprehend any other type of relationship between countries).

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Doctah_Fauci@reddit

You're addicted to the Putin bad narrative. I bet you watch John Oliver and Stephen Colbert religiously.

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KiwiCassie@reddit

A guy raining down bombs and missiles on Ukraine is bad yeah I don’t need the tv to tell me that

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Doctah_Fauci@reddit

Lol smooth brain

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KiwiCassie@reddit

Are you in Ukraine ya cooked cunt

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Ruthenissa@reddit

There was a us military drill few days prior so please

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Ruby2312@reddit

Anon talked about the relationship, not the pipe

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Doctah_Fauci@reddit

It's definitely relevant. Hence the reason for the meme, because in the show Finger says this and skirts over the fact that Gus was going to replace Walt and kill him if he did what he's saying. Russia could not simply just keep selling oil because Burisma, pipeline sabotage, etc. They had to invade Ukraine to continue having a route to Europe.

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moregonger@reddit

what in the copium is this take

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Doctah_Fauci@reddit

Something that angers propaganda sucking morons apparently.

[-]

VikingSlayer@reddit

Keep huffing it

[-]

Doctah_Fauci@reddit

Yep guy with super unpopular take is on propaganda. Everything you think is carefully curated.

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BassoeG@reddit

An unspecified “pro-Ukrainian group”, aka, yes.

[-]

ghosttrainhobo@reddit

And nobody but Russia and Russian boot-lickers gives a shit

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LiveLaughLockheed@reddit

Pretty sure Germany was a bit annoyed about their multi-billion dollar pipeline imploding too ngl

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LiveLaughLockheed@reddit

Ukraine actually admitted to doing it...by accident.

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EdliA@reddit

After Ukraine's invasion though

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CalmOptimal@reddit

They're the only ones who had a motive.

We (EuroHaggisCunt) hoped we may be able to turn on the taps again, if people stop paying attention.

Russia wants us to buy.

AmeriCunts and UkrainiCunts knew this, so blew the cunt up.

Which is exactly what I would have done had I been them.

[-]

Ilikemobkeys52@reddit

Saar it was the Americans who blewed it up not Russia saar putin is very kind man saar

[-]

CalmOptimal@reddit

There's no way you boys would manage to blow it up even if you wanted too.

You weren't even considered as a result.

So you're in the clear.

No offence.

Chicken korma is class.

Xx

[-]

Ilikemobkeys52@reddit

Saar? Why would I ever suggest mother india do that to mighty Russia? India number one but Russia close 🇮🇳🫱🏽‍🫲🏻🇷🇺

[-]

CalmOptimal@reddit

Was the alliance formed over your shared lack of toilets?

[-]

GreeceZeus@reddit

I still don't really understand the rationale for the war apart from imperialist dreams...

[-]

blbobobo@reddit

i’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t imperialist dreams. https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/wgtgma5kj69pbpndjr4wf6aayhrszm

[-]

Mrpettit@reddit

The archives show irrefutably that the U.S. and German governments repeatedly promised to Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would not move “one inch eastward” when the Soviet Union disbanded the Warsaw Pact military alliance.

Assurances were given in 1990 and 1991 that NATO wouldn't expand.

Then, Russia invaded Chechnya in 1994 because they declared independence from Russia in 1991 and refused to rejoin Russia. This prompts other prior Soviet bloc states to want to join NATO.

The same thing happened with Russia invading Ukraine in 2022, Finland and Sweden became fearful of a Russian invasion, so they join NATO.

What a down syndrome including article

[-]

blbobobo@reddit

just because a country wants to join NATO that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to. post-soviet states (including russia itself) had tons of civil conflicts, that doesn’t give the west a valid pretense to step in themselves. jeff sachs was literally on the ground there for all of these events btw, the irony of insulting his work when he’s one of the most knowledgeable people in the field is palpable.

[-]

Mrpettit@reddit

just because a country wants to join NATO that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to.

If Russia didnt invade former Soviet states then they wouldn't want to join NATO. It was only AFTER Russia invaded a former soviet state that other former Soviet states asked to join NATO. But you're right, they shouldn't be allowed to enter a military alliance to deter and defend itself from Russian invasion and should instead maintain a military disadvantage as it benefits Russia.

post-soviet states (including russia itself) had tons of civil conflicts

You are saying that since post soviet states had civil conflict, the winner of the civil conflict doesn't have the right to dictate its own foreign policy, which includes joining military alliances such as NATO? Two of the 5 elements of a sovereign country are, independence from external control and the capacity to engage in relations with other states. You are arguing against the post soviet states' sovereignty by remaining under Russian control, either directly or indirectly, and not allowing them to conduct foreign policy by agreeing to a military alliance with other sovereign states.

jeff sachs was literally on the ground there for all of these events btw, the irony of insulting his work when he’s one of the most knowledgeable people in the field is palpable.

Why would he leave out highly important information if he is so knowledgeable?

[-]

blbobobo@reddit

chechnya is NOT a former soviet state, it’s a breakaway region of the (now completely independent) country of russia. that aside, NATO intent to absorb post-soviet states did not come about just because they asked, that was the plan all along. you should read some of the verbiage in the budapest memorandum, it was written extremely litigiously to set the stage for such a thing, good article here about it by prof diesen.

freedom of action does not imply freedom from consequences. NATO should have flat refused to accept new members east of the ‘91 lines, they were entirely aware of what would happen by pushing russia into a corner. the US established blacksites on the border between ukraine and russia after 2014, so it’s not like their security fears were unfounded either. it’s also funny you mention sovereignty since any pretext of that fell away after maidan. another good article by prof diesen for that.

sachs left out that “highly important information” because it’s completely irrelevant. russia felt that it had been pushed into a corner by the repeated expansion of NATO. you may think that’s not a valid concern (“””defensive””” alliance and all) but that’s not relevant either, they made their concerns known and also made it clear what the consequences would be if they went unheeded. ukraine is just a pawn in a larger geopolitical game, and this war would’ve happened with or without putin at the helm in russia

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pbaagui1@reddit

Cope lol

[-]

Mrpettit@reddit

chechnya is NOT a former soviet state, it’s a breakaway region of the (now completely independent) country of russia.

Chechnya held elections and declared independence prior to the collapse of the USSR.

NATO intent to absorb post-soviet states did not come about just because they asked, that was the plan all along. you should read some of the verbiage in the budapest memorandum, it was written extremely litigiously to set the stage for such a thing, good article here about it by prof diesen.

NATOs intent is irrelevant, the actual reasons for why countries asked to join are what is actually important. The entire article has nothing to do with why the prior soviet states wanted to join and why they actually joined NATO. I dont enjoy fish so im not interested in your red herring.

freedom of action does not imply freedom from consequences.

Right, why Russia's actions that pushed former soviet states into NATO membership is consequences for Russia.

NATO should have flat refused to accept new members east of the ‘91 lines,

And Russia shouldnt have taken actions that made former soviet states want to join NATO. If former soviet states didnt feel threatened by Russia, would they have joined NATO?

they were entirely aware of what would happen by pushing russia into a corner.

Former Soviet states being afraid of Russia due to Russia's past and current actions where they feel threatened enough to want to join a military alliance to protect themselves, isnt Russia being pushed into a corner, its Russia pushing itself in a corner. Thats like breaking into your neighborhood's cars and houses, stealing and then crying that you are being persecuted and are the victim when a neighborhood watch is formed and they call the police on you.

the US established blacksites on the border between ukraine and russia after 2014, so it’s not like their security fears were unfounded either.

So ironic, in 2014 Russia invades Crimea and Russian paramilitaries start a breakaway conflict in Donbas. Per your article "The listening post in the Ukrainian forest is part of a C.I.A.-supported network of spy bases constructed in the past eight years that includes 12 secret locations along the Russian border.", the article was written in 2024 so 8 years prior to 2024 was 2016, which was after the Russian invasion of Crimeia and Donbas conflict. So after Russia invades Crimea and starts a war in the Donbas, the CIA sets up intelligence sites along the Ukrainian-Russian border, and you are claiming that Russia's security fears weren't unfounded, lol

sachs left out that “highly important information” because it’s completely irrelevant. Russia felt that it had been pushed into a corner by the repeated expansion of NATO.

Why is it completely irrelevant? Because you think that Russia should be dictating former soviet states foreign policy that is in Russia's interest, despite Russian actions where former soviet states become fearful of Russia?

you may think that’s not a valid concern (“””defensive””” alliance and all) but that’s not relevant either,

They can have that concern, but when you and Russia refuse to accept that past Russian actions led to former soviet states joining NATO while also claiming that it is completely irrelevant, just shows how delusional the justification for invasion is.

[-]

gurush@reddit

claims it weren't imperialistic dreams

posts an article explaining that it actually were imperialistic dreams about having control over the foreign relationships of neighbouring countries

[-]

blbobobo@reddit

the west literally instigated a coup operation (maidan) to take control over the relationship between ukraine and russia. this is classic western geopolitics playbook and everyone’s eating it up

[-]

Reason-and-rhyme@reddit

i ain't readin allat

the highly regarded scholars of /worldnews

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blbobobo@reddit

got permabanned off that shithole sub and never looked back, it’s a cesspool

[-]

Boxing_joshing111@reddit

Putin said it’s because the land has belonged to Russia since Peter so that’s the only reason that matters, predictable imperialist dick measuring.

[-]

EasyAsItSeems@reddit

High-key likely

[-]

OrganisedVirgin@reddit

Scam likely

[-]

Travonildo@reddit

Mid-key correct

[-]

ezz_9@reddit

A whole key Set

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depressome@reddit

KEYBLADE!

[-]

Garsondebramalo@reddit

Not true at all. Ukraine found energy reserves in the Western part of the country. Once they were extracted, Ukraine would have used the pipeline to sell to Eastern Europe and cut Russia out of the market. That's the reason for the invasion.

[-]

snizarsnarfsnarf@reddit

You have east and west swapped in your comment. Gas reserves found in Eastern Ukraine (the parts Russia now controls), would have been sold to Western Europe to undermine Russian monopoly, using the vast pipelines that already exist running through Ukraine to Western Europe, built by the USSR.

[-]

easterner1848@reddit

Oh fuck anon you gave me such a morning stuffy when you proved that other anon wrong.

[-]

noticingmore@reddit

It's just a straight up fact.

Russia destroyed its future and itself to pretend it was 1845.

They won't exist by 2050.

Dumb motherfuckers.

[-]

Pasarani@reddit

Sure, man. "4 more weeks"

[-]

noticingmore@reddit

Check profile.

Suspicions confirmed.

Many such cases.

[-]

Pasarani@reddit

?? Okay I guess

[-]

Downtown-Campaign536@reddit

Wow, that is actually surprisingly accurate.

[-]

Tuber993@reddit

Said who?

[-]

slow_engineer@reddit

Ah yes, another /pol/tard with degree in eastern europe politics and history (he was not aware of Ukraine's existence prior to 2022)

[-]

Fancy-Ticket-261@reddit

Lmao seethe hivan

[-]

Avruk_altum@reddit

But what he said was literally true. If only russia kept to its business everything would be fine, their pride and huge ego ruined it for everyone

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VS-Goliath@reddit

Nato expanding on their borders. Ukraine overthrew russian puppet. What they did was kinda expected. Kennan's take on NATO expansion is accurate.

[-]

Avruk_altum@reddit

Yea and now their border with NATO is twice as long as it used to be 10 years ago. Still thats a dumb reason to invade them. NATO never planned on attacking russia directly so what difference does it make if more countires wanted to join in. If they kept shut and just sold gad to everyone, NATO woudlnt care about russia at all

[-]

McLemonado89@reddit

It's geopolitics, son. You can't just let your opponents do anything. Ofc NATO never planned to attack Russia. In fact no 1'st world country plans to attack anyone directly. Proxy wars and economy-roadblocks are the name of the game rn. The moment you let NATO do what they please, there's suddenly a coup in bordering country, business partners stop making big projects with you, you lose prestige and in a blink of an eye you become another Europestan.

Every country wants to be better than the other one, if not - it's a failed state. NATO wants to beat Russia, China. Russia and China wants to beat NATO. Both NATO and Ru/Chi are together not bc of made up morally good reasons but simply bc it's mutually beneficial. If NATO suddenly disappeaed one day, Russia and China (and other big shots left) would just start conflicts with each other just because it's a natural order of things in geopolitics.

The only truth there is: there's no bad nor good guys. Just different interests

[-]

OurSocietyBottomText@reddit

When did Nato expand its "borders" and why did those countries join Nato?

[-]

ipmanvsthemask@reddit

Their opinions don't matter, obviously.

[-]

Baguette72@reddit

NATO wouldn't exist, let alone expand if Russia would just stop invading its neighbors

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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[-]

DonnieMoistX@reddit

Russian’s mad

[-]

forward_only@reddit

Least retarded /pol/ poster.

Kamala Harris said Ukraine will join NATO.

CIA blew up the pipeline.

All text should be deleted for inaccuracy, and image should be EU digging its own grave

[-]

Avruk_altum@reddit

Talk crap about USA Says its EU's fault

Smartest russian bootlicker

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reddit_has_fallenoff@reddit

Didnt Joe Biden admit to blowing up the pipeline?

[-]

Avruk_altum@reddit

Yea but my point is that just because USA does shit, dont blame EU for anything muricans do

[-]

forward_only@reddit

I don't give a shit about the Russians. It's just that they clearly established a red line for 25+ years and all NATO has tried to do in that time is find ways to cross it. May your carpet bombing campaign finally bring peace to the region. I guess.

[-]

Avruk_altum@reddit

They have no right to estabalish any "red lines" if countries want to join in, they hava every right to do so. Maybe russia should treat then better instead of trying to estabilish quasi-puppet states like they did in belarus

[-]

HighDegree@reddit

Implying Europe isn't still buying tons of gas from Russia.

[-]

Any-Monk-9395@reddit

Yep, they still give more money to Russia for gas than they do to Ukraine for aid.

[-]

fancy_potatoe@reddit

This really pisses me off. They could have ended imports and let higher gas prices force the population to turn down home heating. It would suck, but a house at 10°C is liveable in harsh times.

[-]

7kte@reddit

modern building need at leas 18 unless you want mold pay for teardown every 10 years.

[-]

Glaesilegur@reddit

Give

Economics 101.

[-]

OiledUpThug@reddit

But Krautards still have to shut down nuclear because of something that happened literally twice out of hundreds of reactors

[-]

panjeri@reddit

Yeah, but they have to go through third countries now instead of a simple pipeline.

[-]

snrup1@reddit

I like when the Germans talk about tough about Russia when they buy more than anyone. Hell their old PM got a lucrative do-nothing job at Gazprom.

[-]

YoNoSoyUnFederale@reddit

I imagine the Russians think that they’re Mike. They legitimately seem to have trouble seeing why everybody isn’t cool with them invading Ukraine and why they would hurt themselves over something they see as an internal matter.

I think they’re lost in the sauce to a large degree though. I’ve heard people make the argument that if Mexico suddenly had a very anti-American leader with ties to our adversaries, we would invade them. Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn’t but the rest of the world would still be like ‘WTF bro?’

It’s one thing to stay neutral and out of it but Russia legit seems hurt that nobody except like NK and Cuba truly think this is a good move and thinks they’re awesome for doing it

[-]

ManchurianCandycane@reddit

I think they're absolutely hurt everyone doesn't see them as awesome.

But more importantly they loathe the idea of playing the regular PR game to convince people they are.

[-]

Ra1nCoat@reddit

Russians are brainwashed, it is what it is only thing that'll get the point across is a bullet through the brain

[-]

saltywelder682@reddit

Russia blew up the pipeline? Okie dokie

[-]

Kogster@reddit

Turned of pipeline before it was blown up.

[-]

morj_the_korj@reddit

They meant that by starting a war russia "blew up" the whole gas trade deal. Not that russians literally blew up a pipeline.

[-]

FewVermicelli4535@reddit

Who blew up the pipeline then?

[-]

forwhenimbanned@reddit

ignore the other comments, it's proven it was the ukranian secret service

[-]

DroidLord@reddit

I don't believe that's been confirmed. Yes, an Ukrainian national was likely involved in the attack, but he's not been tied to the Ukrainian intelligence service as of yet.

[-]

takecare60@reddit

The Ukrainians took the blame which means it was their American handlers

[-]

OmegaCoolBoi@reddit

based

[-]

oceangreen25@reddit

Who gives a shit?

[-]

FewVermicelli4535@reddit

the people who payed for it I guess

[-]

oceangreen25@reddit

So nobody? Since Russia cut our gas in order to attempt to freeze us

[-]

trooawoayxxx@reddit

They could've uncut the gas and made our industry competitive again. Now that the Ukrainians blew it up we're stuck buying expensive LNG from other shit countries.

[-]

moregonger@reddit

which is a good thing unironically

[-]

trooawoayxxx@reddit

It's good to have developed alternatives. The new pipelines can get caught in regional conflicts and shipping can be disturbed. Russian deliveries can be part of our energy mix and incentivise longer term stable relations. The war is putting a big strain on their society, a destabilized Russia is not the boon you might think it is.

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moregonger@reddit

Destabilized russia is exactly what I seek

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Liberty_PrimeIsWise@reddit

Good.

That's what you guys get for being reliant on Russian gas.

I hope it hurts really bad so you transition away from it.

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Chi_Cazzo_Sei@reddit

The USA, to force Europe into buying their more expensive gas.

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Ilikemobkeys52@reddit

Bulgaria

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moregonger@reddit

no they did pearl harbor

it was ivory coast

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Skruestik@reddit

Aliens.

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roionsteroids@reddit

Germany named the ecoterrorist and demands his extradition from Ukraine. Volodymyr Z. (not the president, presumably).

https://www.dw.com/en/nord-stream-explosions-germany-issues-arrest-warrant/a-69933920

If there's any connection to the government (which is surely going be revealed after the war, for now we're willing to turn a blind eye), Ukraine will owe a few hundred billion to Germany, Russia, Denmark, Sweden...

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atantony77@reddit

Biden lmao

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chunkyboii420@reddit

Us

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UnkleBott@reddit

No half measures

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ConscientiousPath@reddit

lol says the guy trying to expand his borders and preferential trade treatment right up to the other guy's border. Like, I don't approve of anyone starting a war, but it's lowkey understandable from their perspective why they decided to.

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mr-prez@reddit

Ah yes, because Russia was supposed to just tolerate the overthrow of Ukranian Government by the CIA and mass killing of ethnic Russians in the Donbass Region and the potential of NATO arms extremely close to it's border without doing anything. When Russia pulled not even half that crap with the Cuban Missile Crisis the U.S. rightfully went apeshit. But when the west does it, it's ok apparently.

OP can't even comprehend that this situation hurts the EU more than it does Russia.

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Zenothehermit@reddit

True. Except for the part where the US/EU helped overthrow the democratically elected government of Ukraine, helped install a pro-nato puppet so that they could siphon resources for western europed and expand nato after saying they wouldn't and then that same puppet government started brutally repressing the russian areas of Ukraine, because they opposed the coup. But yeah that Putin guy just came out of nowhere, with no provocation whatsoever. I didnt know you could still get payouts for Ukraine shilling, I thought Israel propaganda was where the money was these days.

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SecondHandDepression@reddit

EU coping thinking they have any power in this relationship.

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DrMantisToboggan-@reddit

I mean if the euros had listened to the Americans the euros would of had a credible military for deterrence and the war would have never started. they have no one to blame but themselves. They didn't even believe the Americans or the Brits when they told them for months Russia was going to do a full scale invasion of Ukraine. Seriously did not believe them till the day before. *insert man riding a bike while putting a stick through front wheel meme

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HzPips@reddit

Germany keeps buying a shit ton of gas from Russia

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TekatoZikame2@reddit

A lot of countries in Europe are but through China at an even higher price as a result of trade restrictions or embargos.

Unless that's not the case anymore, not sure if anything changed in the last few months.

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StoicLort@reddit

>Do nothing

>Win

How does China keep getting away with it. They literally just throw an upcharge on Russian gas and make a profit for just having it pass through their hands.

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TekatoZikame2@reddit

Sometimes I wonder that myself whether world leaders are that deluded and incompetent or if the whole embargo was just for show to keep the smooth brains happy that "we did something".

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GrAdmThrwn@reddit

If they cared about Ukraine they wouldn't be drip feeding them equipment.

It said a lot when trade between Europe and Kazakhstan and India went up proportionally in the precisely the sectors that they sanctioned Russia over, in things neither India or Kazakhstan produce but started importing more of from Russia around the same time.

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seriouskot@reddit

Also true in reverse lmao. Shut the fuck up, buy your gas and stop prolonging the war.

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Syaman_@reddit

We could have it so good if Russia would literally just chill the fuck out

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rgliszin@reddit

Guess OP is retarded. Sad.

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EqualityAmongFish@reddit

Germany is still buying like 20% of its gas from russia tho

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SunderedValley@reddit

(they're still selling them gas)

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MrHouse2281@reddit

Literally

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Lucariowolf2196@reddit

I still feel like part of this all started off because Ukraine found a huge reserve of natural gas

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Ra1nCoat@reddit

that's not true

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Lucariowolf2196@reddit

Then why is there so much fighting in the eastern part of Ukraine?

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MetaFisch@reddit

Do you expect Russia to invade from the West or what?

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Lucariowolf2196@reddit

North, probably through Belarus too but nope

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Ra1nCoat@reddit

they did and got pushed back

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Appropriate_Gear4632@reddit

Eastern part has most prorussians people there.

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berserkuh@reddit

Yeah. No matter what, Ukraine would’ve pushed them out of the market. They had more untapped gas ready to start exploiting than whatever Russian reserves even exist, that’s how large their deposits were.

Too bad Russian economy was basically “sell gas or die”, because they’re dumbfucks and can’t export anything else.

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Lucariowolf2196@reddit

I forget which u.s president it was but they said Russia is a gas station with an army

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berserkuh@reddit

Not contesting that, but it was about to become MySpace neighbouring a smaller Facebook.

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VampiroMedicado@reddit

They seem to be interested in mostly the east which has all the natural resources.

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takecare60@reddit

Yeah, all Russians had to do is accept a Western backed coup d'etat on their most vulnerable border. Dumb Russians, just take it and obey

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rope-when@reddit

The pipeline was obviously not blown up by russia

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TheTwinFangs@reddit

So we still have idiots who thinks Russia blew up their own pipelines ? Lmao

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Theguywithoutanyname@reddit

Russia has been modern Russia since 1993. Its just that they were good enough business partners that Europe put their fingers in their ears and pretended they were alright.

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strangetines@reddit

Russia's a country with an 18th century mindset because that's the last time it was relevant.

It's so far behind that the eventual dissolution and balkanisation won't happen for another century at least. Meanwhile they're waging wars of actual conquest, not American style oh boy howdy looks like we just caused eleventy gorillion dollaraydoos of damage in our regime change operation guess I'll hand out the reconstruction contract to...oh look it's my good friend bill who owns a megacorp and donated 1 million to me, what's that bill you can rebuild it? That's really great, really, really great. No, not for Russia, Russia wants the land and the people because it's a country thats grappling with demographic collapse before having a computerisation revolution, because they're still hundreds of years from the 1980s.

If the human species wasn't categorically awful you'd think there might be hope for someone to come in and fix up the russian state and mentality but history proves this won't happen, you might as well wait for a unicorn to fix it. The only debate is where it stops, will Russia actually be stupid enough to attack Finland? Montenegro? Romania? Because eventually it will lose and then Putin and the boys are fucked.

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Katzenpower@reddit

20iq take. Russkies ofc like destroying their multibillion dollar investment when they can literally just turn off the tap

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SummerOftime@reddit

A German complaining about the gas problem. Old habits die hard

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AdemsanArifi@reddit

I mean, technically, back then they thought gas was the solution not the problem.

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Dammit_Meg@reddit

A final solution, some would say.

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Sharky-Li@reddit

The big picture situation is basically the same as if Russia decided to start putting nukes in Mexico and the US invaded Mexico to prevent that. If Ukraine had joined NATO the fear was that there would be nukes in a country bordering Russia which is why the chief demand from Russia was that Ukraine can't join NATO. This matters because the US can nuke Russia before they'd have time to react so it gives them a big advantage.

There's evidence the CIA had over a dozen bases in Ukraine since 2014 so it's likely they were instigating the whole thing since a proxy war allows the US to drain Russian supplies and manpower without actually going to war. Indeed Russia is weaker and the only thing the US did was give them some surplus weapons.

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MrSurname@reddit

Yes, Russia blew up the pipeline. That's what happened.

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TimberAndStrings@reddit

This is so fucking accurate. We Germans gave them money to shit while we had enough gas for

But no, they weren’t satisfied with being the by far biggest country on earth, fuck no. They had to send hundreds of thousands of men to die in some cold shithole for naught.

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FewVermicelli4535@reddit

I don’t think that they blew it up. They could have just stopped selling them gas or smth.

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Cekeste@reddit

I think Russia is doing fine.