It's running around in circles for hours now. Tell me how that's supposed to replace anyone.
Posted by derjanni@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 120 comments
Cube00@reddit
Standard AI bro excuses: your prompt is wrong, you didn't start a new chat often enough, humans also make mistakes.
Additional-Bee1379@reddit
This is a kneejerk attitude that is equally unhelpful. I don't think there is anyone who is claiming at this moment that agentic coding is at a sufficient level. I can't be denied however that the pace of improvement is very rapid.
-_1_2_3_-@reddit
The wild part is ani-ai bros are gonna get left behind massively in just a matter of years.
No amount of being a curmudgeon is going to save you.
We won’t even have to wait that long to see it.
OkLettuce338@reddit
There it is! Reason to hell. Hype train is arriving. Jump on or your career is over
-_1_2_3_-@reddit
Be flippant all you want, this debate won’t take long to settle, your snark isn’t going to slow the progression of technology.
But by all means throw up those psychological defenses.
OkLettuce338@reddit
I mean they are not wrong. Almost every one of the bullet points is in the comments. You can’t argue with ai hype atm. If you do, your response is almost ensured to come. “You’ll be left behind” has been in essentially every discussion I’ve seen online and in real life when one side brings up any question that challenges the concept of ai replacing people. Even when the person saying that is already using ai!!
It’s a little…. Brain rot -ish
micseydel@reddit
Another word for brain rot is cognitive debt https://time.com/7295195/ai-chatgpt-google-learning-school/
-_1_2_3_-@reddit
I mean you say that, but look at the votes here, up for anti-ai and down for pro-ai. The anti-ai sentiment is obviously more welcome here.
It’s a more accurate picture of this thread to say “you can’t argue with anti-ai echo chambers”.
OkLettuce338@reddit
Yeah upvotes vs down votes, the TRUE debate settler. You aren’t very thoughtful in your arguments so I think I’ll find the door. Have a great career.
-_1_2_3_-@reddit
We aren’t talking about settling the debate with downvotes… I’m pointing out the direction that the circlejerk trends. Reddit votes are the measure of that.
djnattyp@reddit
You forgot the classic: "You're using some AI version? Everyone knows you should be using the DooDoo#2 model from BullshAIt.slop"
stevefuzz@reddit
Lol so we are all finally on the same page that this is all hype and bullshit? I knew we would get here! I'm proud guys. If I had to keep reading vibe code circle jerks and listening to people who don't code tell me we were obsolete I was going to go crazy.
ThenPlac@reddit
Nope, just turns out OP was just using it wrong.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/s/4v3CIVoOV0
OkLettuce338@reddit
The problem is “we” aren’t the ones mandating its usage company wide
stevefuzz@reddit
However, we are seeing it for what it is. It's all a hype machine, but, the hype machine can only hype so hard when the quarterly shareholder meetings come around. Money is the only thing that really matters. If ai keeps producing shit code it's going to blow up at some point. Companies will start loosing contracts. Production systems will get more and more expensive to fix and maintain. This is a short sighted fad and I can't wait for the years of cleanup we are going to get paid for.
OkLettuce338@reddit
I believe your expectation is optimistic toward the career engineer. I think ai is here to stay and I think the user will just get really used to bugs and software will start looking really standard and will be “cheap” in the same way that plastics changed product manufacturing.
Things break a lot more today than they did 60 years ago, but hey, it’s also a lot cheaper for the end user to buy. So when that little plastic tab snaps in the shaft that is essential to make the entire product function and behave correctly, instead of losing out on a large investment, the user just throws it away and buys another one.
I think something analogous to that is where we’re heading with ai
stevefuzz@reddit
I'm optimistic that LLMs are just a productivity tool that talented and trained devs will take advantage of. Not to write my code, to make me faster at coding MY code. I'm hopeful the marketing departments will actually find some non-trivial use for LLMs, because replacing software engineers was a big giant leap and stupid idea. Go replace some middle management and test your slop there lol.
OkLettuce338@reddit
I hope you are right and that I am wrong.
Cube00@reddit
Yes!! The models are logarithimicly improving every minute! We're delaying things because it'll be even better!
>change of plans: [...], and then do GPT-5 in a few months.
>there are a bunch of reasons for this, but the most exciting one is that we are going to be able to make GPT-5 much better than we originally though [1]
nemec@reddit
OP didn't even inform the AI "You are an expert in Assembly" smh
Kaimito1@reddit
Ive heard you get better responses if you mention that you'll die if the code doesn't work
Cube00@reddit
I told it my boss was going to fire me if it didn't stop hallucinating entry points and instead it offered help me write a cover letter and resume.
boiazul@reddit
F
AnnoyedVelociraptor@reddit
I'm adding this to my list of canned responses. Thank you.
Mundane-Raspberry963@reddit
Was just listening to a guy unironically preaching your last point lol
MoveInteresting4334@reddit
Lmao
derjanni@reddit (OP)
„Ok, let’s run create-react-app for your STM32 microprocessor“
soundman32@reddit
The real WTF is someone writing their own sha256 implementation 'just for kicks'. I hear the wheel needs reinventing, too.
derjanni@reddit (OP)
How would you implement it in asm?
soundman32@reddit
Why do you need to rewrite something that someone has already written and has probably the best possible performance on current hardware?
I get that this might be fun or a learning experience for you, but at this point, it's a solved problem, so you could look at lots of existing implementations to see how its done.
https://github.com/openssl/openssl/blob/master/crypto/sha/sha256.c
derjanni@reddit (OP)
Can you provide a link to the source where someone implemented a CLI for sha256 on arm64 macOS 15.5 in pure asm?
soundman32@reddit
A good optimising C compiler would do that for you. Have you looked at what the assembly output from the openssl implementation looks like?
OtaK_@reddit
To be completely fair, a C compiler would probably insert a truckload of timing-related side-channel vulnerabilities. Suddenly your cryptographic hashing function is a liability.
You'd need to pepper in a ton of raw asm statements in your C code and at this point, just write an asm routine and expose it in a whatever-language-you-like.
soundman32@reddit
https://github.com/jocover/sha256-armv8/blob/master/sha256-armv8-aarch64.S
Deaths_Intern@reddit
They're trying to tell you that's theres no good reason you have to do this in pure asm
derjanni@reddit (OP)
Got some help from u/vert1s and 40% is a pretty dang good reason to do it:
https://github.com/jankammerath/sha256_asm_go
Etiennera@reddit
With a compiler
JamieTransNerd@reddit
I hate the phrase "reinventing the wheel' because it ignores that the wheel has been reinvented, multiple times, for different purposes. We aren't using Medieval horse cart wheels on our cars, nor are we using car wheels on bicycles. Reinvent the wheel if the current wheels don't fit your need.
vert1s@reddit
Oh please. Working ASM implementation in 20 mins (25 with repo setup) with Claude Code (Opus 4).
https://github.com/vertis-research/sha256-asm
Video on it's way as soon as it finishes export.
derjanni@reddit (OP)
a) why the cpp?
b) segfaults on my machine (macOS 15.5 M1 Pro)
vert1s@reddit
The C not cpp is just a CLI wrapper, and yes assembly isn't known for being portable. That's why I included the video. I'm sure with a little more time it could manage more, but I've already invested more time into this than I should have (less about Reddit and more about my day).
derjanni@reddit (OP)
You just proved my point by not implementing a basic CLI sha256 hashing application in asm, but instead using C wrappers.
vert1s@reddit
I didn't prove your point. You have one snippet of a screenshot whinging about GitHub Copilot going around in circles. The screenshot is of the hashing algorithm.
derjanni@reddit (OP)
My screenshot literally shows a single self contained asm file being compiled…
vert1s@reddit
It shows build.sh being called?
derjanni@reddit (OP)
Claude can surely fix your repo in seconds to make it a self contained asm file, can it?
vert1s@reddit
Oops already did.
https://github.com/vertis-research/sha256-asm/blob/main/sha256_pure_arm64.s
5 more mins
derjanni@reddit (OP)
Awesome, thank you! That one worked. So Claude 4 Opus did the job, right?
vert1s@reddit
Claude Code using the max plan that allows quite a bit of Opus 4 usage (much cheaper than API). I voice type quite a lot using superwhisper because you get a lot better results if you're verbose about what you want.
derjanni@reddit (OP)
Thank you for your support. Here's why I did it:
https://programmers.fyi/asm-beats-go-its-40-9-or-1-4x-faster-when-calculating-sha256
vert1s@reddit
https://github.com/vertis-research/sha256-asm/blob/main/sha256_pure_arm64.s
horserino@reddit
Great thread 😯 (nice to see someone share the actual real world successful output of their AI usage for a change)
Constant-Listen834@reddit
No this is Reddit that’s not allowed
OtaK_@reddit
Well to be fair, there's no LLM that's able to write anything related to cryptography at large (and even well-documented cryptographic hashes like SHA256). That's also my field of work and LLMs have been awfully clueless.
Engineers that work in niches like these are pretty much safe for the next 10 years lol
DanishWeddingCookie@reddit
Both sides of the AI debate are so tedious to listen to right now. It's not a complete replacement for anybody that knows what they are doing, and it's not completely worthless for beginners to use to help them learn/get past hurdles.
Jonjonbo@reddit
I'm just guessing there's way less assembly programming available in its training data compared to other languages so it's gonna be pretty shit at it
Constant-Listen834@reddit
It would also be extremely helpful if OP included their prompt in the thread. Just posting an AI going in circles is pretty silly without actually telling us the entry point.
For all we know OP gave it a “fix my broken code” or something
PizzaCatAm@reddit
Yeah, how did he ground the thing? It flies almost autonomously but needs good grounding.
GentlemenBehold@reddit
I’ve seen human devs running around in circles for days.
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
“Look at this dumb AI tool wasting hours and not solving the problem” says dev who just wasted hours hitting enter in the prompt console.
Constant-Listen834@reddit
This sub seems to be stuck in the all or nothing mindset with AI. Either it has to be 100% perfect and replace everyone, or completely useless.
In reality it’s another tool that needs a human at the helm. Sometimes it’s amazing and saves tons of time, other times it completely fails. With a competent human using it you can get good results if you know how to apply it
But this is Reddit so the nuance will be lost
chaitanyathengdi@reddit
Yeah it'll replace those
HeveredSeads@reddit
Of course I know him, he is me.
uns0licited_advice@reddit
Hello there
DogmaSychroniser@reddit
You are a bold one, uns0licited_advice
ViveIn@reddit
I’ve been human dev running around in circles for days.
Free_Afternoon_7349@reddit
The AI and I have been running around in circles for days :)
coworker@reddit
Ask it why it's running in circles. Then ask it how to prevent that.
You've got to learn how to use the tool
binarycow@reddit
Why can't it recognize that?
Most of us have written code that stops after X iterations, to protect against pathological inputs.
Why can't the tool recognize that it's literally been spinning it's wheels?
After asking "why are you running in circles?", the tool should tell you why. Also, it should recognize that it is running in circles, and then prevent it.
Why must I ask these two questions, then they are implied in the original?
coworker@reddit
Why do you have to ask juniors why they run in circles? It really is not much different from human behavior and yet you require perfection. Do you work with perfect coworkers?
binarycow@reddit
I don't have to.
Yes, it is.
Nope. I work with interns who are better than LLMs, apparantly.
coworker@reddit
Sure you do bro. Sure you do
binarycow@reddit
I don't know why people keep going with "LLMs are just a junior developer".
If I worked with junior developers that made as many errors as LLMs do, they'd be former developers.
coworker@reddit
Juniors are only as good as their seniors so that would make you a piss poor senior
binarycow@reddit
🤷♂️ You're free to assume that.
I expect junior developers to be self aware enough that something that doesn't compile is not something they should submit.
I expect junior developers to realize that if they write version 1, then modify it to version 2 because version 1 didn't work... They should not change it back to version 1 because version 2 didn't work.
I expect junior developers to be able to "read between the lines" - if I were to say "why are you doing it that way?" - they should be able to infer that I also want them to consider other possible options, and validate their assumptions.
I expect junior developers to actually know the language. Not necessarily be an expert - but understand the concepts.
I expect junior developers to not say "The specification says X", when they did not actually check the specification
I can't expect any of those things from an LLM.
LLMs are - at best - interns who:
coworker@reddit
Like juniors, LLMs are only as good as their inputs and I'm pretty sure you give a lot more context to your juniors :)
binarycow@reddit
Juniors already have the context of the entire repository and the entire internet at their fingertips. And they're able to deduce specifically what they need to look at, given the circumstance.
LLMs have a limited context window, by design. And they can't deduce what to look at - they have to look at everything.
As far as context on what the task is supposed to do - no, I don't give juniors more context than the LLM has available.
JonnieTightLips@reddit
Agreed. We all know of highly capable juniors, there is no such thing as even a remotely capable LLM though.
It's more like an entity with far more info than any engineer, but far less logic and foresight than anyone with even a weekend's experience.
Someone midway through their first bootcamp will already be far more useful than every AI. All the information in the world is utterly pointless if you have no foresight to back it up.
binarycow@reddit
Exactly
If anything, it's more dangerous with all that info.
demosthenesss@reddit
I thought you need to go complain on reddit or other places for karma instead.
You're saying I need to learn how to use tools before deciding they are useless?
coworker@reddit
True the hive mind do love "AI bad" lol
stevefuzz@reddit
Replace your sentiment with "ai good" to reveal the insanity of humans. Which group of sheep can bahhh louder?
coworker@reddit
No replace it with AI is a tool
WittyCattle6982@reddit
Don't help!
scottishkiwi-dan@reddit
Nothing says experienced devs like this IDE theme
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
I think everyone has to go through a dark mode phase because it looks cool. Then one day you open something with a light mode theme and realize that contrast is actually kind of nice.
ba-na-na-@reddit
Senior vibe dev with 7 months of experience and a dark theme detectsd
Cube00@reddit
I'll never understand why the regular VSCode default is dark but the VSCode on GitHub Codespaces default is white.
I'm guessing it's to make Codespaces as painful as possible you help remind you to get out of there quickly given how expensive it is.
BuzzAlderaan@reddit
Joke or not, co-workers like that are awful.
Lost_Sentence7582@reddit
It defaults to system theme. So if your OS isn’t in a darker theme. Code spaces won’t be. It’s a common pattern with a lot of sites.
Drayenn@reddit
If you use white themes youre a degen, change my mind
mastermikeyboy@reddit
I'm currently in an office with sky lights.. White theme is the only way I can actually read the screen.
Any other environment I use dark.
pc81rd@reddit
Exactly. I can't transition anymore between bright overhead lights (especially the daylight led ones they have now) and a dark screen.
The more experienced (aka old) the dev, like me, the more likely they can't transition between the two.
derjanni@reddit (OP)
You pick your theme based on your environment lighting to protect your eyes. The dark and light mode is for health not for low self esteem.
Gooeyy@reddit
Is this sarcastic? The old guys at my work are all on that white background lifestyle
sobrietyincorporated@reddit
Cobalt 2 for the last decade. Easy on the eyes.
i_wayyy_over_think@reddit
The fact that it’s even a question now is a testament to the progress that has been made, and the progress hasn’t plateaued yet.
binocular_gems@reddit
I had this experience with Windsurf, which I wanted to learn more about. It was decent at getting my application started and working, but when I wanted it to refactor signficant portions of my app to be organized more logically, it got stuck in a doom loop of introducing a "fix," breaking something, fixing the thing it broke but undoing the original code it introduced, and then saying "Done! I've done all of these things for you!" and ... not only were none of them done, the app was flat broken. It also did things like deleting tests in order to consider a feature fixed/built, something that would get a junior engineer probably fired if they continued to do it so brazenly.
hippydipster@reddit
Letting it run around in circles for hours suggests replacing you might be a good idea.
Forsaken-Ad3524@reddit
why are people crticizing AI often on previous generation of models ?
if the problem is too hard for sonnet 3.7, try opus 4 or o3.
if that's not enough next step is to ask it to reproduce the problem with tests and the fix it. or to give logs and ask to add necessary logs to understand the issue.
AI is a tool, you need to be in charge of using the tool efficiently.
derjanni@reddit (OP)
I've been through ALL, I repeat ALL of them.
testy_balls@reddit
Well, apparently not.
stevefuzz@reddit
No, you will be gaslighted by ai super fans who never coded in the first place.
WittyCattle6982@reddit
Don't help.
Nater5000@reddit
Regardless of your feelings towards AI, can we not continue to ruin this sub with shitty low-effort posts about AI that are clearly breaking rule 9?
mxdx-@reddit
It's only value is to write unit tests and possibly replace confluence. But most orgs don't have the courage or the skills to train an agent on their enterprise architecture and documentation.
Cube00@reddit
We are seriously going backwards. Writing buggy code and generating tests to test the buggy code isn't testing. Documentation should capture the "why", the "why" is not in the code, no AI can infer your "why"
Lost_Sentence7582@reddit
Skill issue but “shrug” they said the same thing when the internet came out.
cbusmatty@reddit
Your prompts are saying “please fix”. You need to do some very basic prompting here when it gets stuck. “I googled the thing and I keep getting the same results why would anyone use Google” is what you sound like
WittyCattle6982@reddit
"Well, it'll definitely replace you!" - someone who knows how to use it :)
WittyCattle6982@reddit
I love this :)
PeachScary413@reddit
It's not and yes it's a bubble.
deZbrownT@reddit
It's not, are IDEs replacing anyone, is git replacing someone.
AvailableRead2729@reddit
People on /r/singularity won’t shut up about it. They think the sooner it comes, the sooner they get UBI lol. As if the government is going to pay everyone because AI can do their jobs. That’ll be the day.
Real talk though, ChatGPT is just an alternative to google search for me and it hasn’t made me any more productive than when they first released it.
coworker@reddit
This isn't chat gpt.
The power of AI right now comes from context and Cursor has your entire codebase, git history, and the internet for context.
Chat gpt does not :)
Eastern_Interest_908@reddit
Someone should punch you fornusing white background.
kondorb@reddit
It’s supposed to help you to replace the next guy by making you more productive.
satoryvape@reddit
You need to provide comprehensive list of prompts to Claude otherwise it will be hallucinating
thatVisitingHasher@reddit
It’s really not. Making 1 person 30% more productive doesn’t do much of anything. The bottleneck is rarely one person. Unless organizations want to adopt massive organizational and culture change, most won’t hugely benefit from AI. Their AI investment might be slightly better than a traditional IT investment.
nikto123@reddit
Maybe more than 30% but it really depends on the person / task. what I do like is that it automates the really boring mundane boilerplate parts & I can whip up working scripts really fast, even if I don't know the language / frameworks. + It's very good for researching new technologies, better even than google / stackoverflow were back when they actually worked.
Saving my energy that would have been spent on the mundane tasks makes me able to focus on those difficult / high level ones for longer.