Advice: what is considered wear and tear?
Posted by SunflowerDino@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 45 comments
[removed]
Posted by SunflowerDino@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 45 comments
[removed]
DryJackfruit6610@reddit
You should probably see if you can get a quote to repair the counter and pay for it.
Having rented many different places in my time, estate agents are snakes. They tried to charge me £200 for 'dust on the skirting boards'
I had hoovered them, but the place was empty for a couple of weeks before they checked it, so obviously dust has settled. But hold your ground when they try to charge you for stupid shit
Joystic@reddit
Pretty bad but I can beat you. I once got pulled for "fingerprints on the door handle".
The renting situation in the UK is an absolute disgrace.
Ravnak@reddit
Claiming for stuff like dust should be outlawed,
But removing security deposits would cause rent to skyrocket.
You think if someone trashes a room it's just gonna be "oopsie, guess I'll eat 5k in repair bills" from the landlord?
DryJackfruit6610@reddit
Thats absolutely ridiculous, fingerprints, guess next time you have to wear gloves around the house forever.
Or just burn off your fingerprints
TapeBadger@reddit
Ours once tried to charge us £160 for 'footprints on the floors'
(I mopped my way out of downstairs and then locked up and handed over the keys. They immediately went to inspect it and walked across the wet floors!)
DryJackfruit6610@reddit
They are just money grabbers aren't they, we cleaned the place top to bottom and had before and after photos. The bathroom was in better condition than when we moved in, and they still tried to claim they needed a new shower door 😅
Glittering_Copy8907@reddit
Wear and tear - cheap shit, which doesn't stand up to normal use
That's just poor installation / bad workmanship. Issue with the property
That's damage and you're liable to fix it
shredditorburnit@reddit
Bang on.
OP should get a quote from a magic man about repairing the countertop, just to make sure they don't get done over later.
BootyMcSchmooty@reddit
What's a magic man?
waynownow@reddit
"hello, french polishers? It's just possible you might save my life..."
shredditorburnit@reddit
They repair damaged surfaces such that you can't tell it ever happened.
Revolutionary_Sky824@reddit
A magician, OP may need to learn slight of hand and misdirection to get away with
digibawb@reddit
It's sleight of hand in case you weren't aware, or maybe the magician just nabbed your e.
Revolutionary_Sky824@reddit
I wrote this after 36 hours of no sleep, I’m blaming this one on insomnia. I didn’t even finish the sentence, it would seem I missed the “it”.
CindersHonner123@reddit
Exactly right.
Nb
You can buy counter repair paste. Its about £9 but much better than the £300 they could charge you for full replacement.
AnonymousBanana7@reddit
They wouldn't need to pay for a full replacement anyway for something that's nearly 5 years old.
CindersHonner123@reddit
Depends. For example : if you were to put an iron hole in a carpet and the rest of the carpet was in 'reasonable state of repair' you would be liable for replacing the carpet.
One could argue that the item was due for a replacement, as carpet is deemed replaceable at 5- 10 yrs . and thus, no charge or subsidised charge in relation to a carpets age may be agreed upon.
But laminate countertop has a 10-20 year life expectancy. So it would be hard to argue that it was due replacement anyway, especially if the rest of the counter is in a good state of repair.
If the counter top is looking old in multiple places I suggest OP takes multiple photos of it, which may help prove its end of life expectancy, thus damage occurred was due to internal de-lamination of counter due to its age and continued reasonable wear and tear.
AnonymousBanana7@reddit
It's my understanding (and I could be wrong) that the cost you'd be liable for would be proportional to the lifespan of the product.
If the counter top has a lifespan of 10-20 years, and it's 5 years old, you wouldn't be expected to pay the full cost to replace because it was already 1/4 through it's life expectancy.
For an extreme example, if you chip the paint after 4 years, you wouldn't be expected to pay the full cost of repainting the room because you'd expect to paint every 5-ish years anyway.
CindersHonner123@reddit
I think a lot of the official legal standpoint has a grey areas to it.
Officially, landlords can claim full cost of replacement for the items damaged/broken in order to return the property to a rentable condition that is the same or better than the property condition when the lease is signed (less wear &tear) . Which for items within their reasonable life span can be justified as the full cost of a new item.
But as Tenants can 'must return a property in its rented state minus wear and tear'. The Tennants have a duty to the above statement, and as such, they must be allowed to opportunity maintain the property and do actions to "return the property to.." Thus, they have the right to be able to provide the repair/replacement 'like for like' themselves and be entitled to their full deposit. (Ie paint over the stains or repair the surface to a lasting quality) However , Often the contract will include a clause to be carried out by a registered/trained professional, though so you have to watch out for that as the Tennant can then be liable for the Landlord re-repairing if not done correctly. Making sure u have document of landlords agreeing (or refusing
The cost of registered labour is often an area that can play against Tennants with arguing that the item has been already used for 50% of its life expectancy cost. If you argue only owe 50% of the products cost due to its remaining life expectancy, you still have to add 100% of the installation cost to its final value.
But , if a Tennant could prove they below in their dispute quote: * they can purchase a second-hand replacement at a comparitive quality & use. * The item is readliy available, second hand. * quotes if a professional to repair or proof requares dont require a costed profesional.
Then the Landlord would struggle to legally justify a new for old replacement and would have to accept that value.
Basically tenancy law is a nightmare.
So, at the end of the day, all deposits should be held in a suitable scheme to protect the tenants from Deposit grabbing landlords. And all Landlords should have insurance to cover destructive Tennants.
This provides both mediation and protection opportunities from both parties.
I say all this as a person who's been on both sides of the equation.
mupps-l@reddit
Landlords aren’t entitled to and can’t claim for betterment although they will try. They can at most claim to return the property to the condition it was at the start of the tenancy less fair wear and tear.
Landlords must apportion the cost if replacing old for new as they aren’t allowed to end up financially or materially better off.
Longjumping-Age9023@reddit
What’s wear and tear for 11 years please?
Upbeat-Metal-5087@reddit
Or the 80ph to get it fixed by a pro
krappa@reddit
I'm not so sure about the crack in the flooring.
If they can show it was there from the start, or that the floor was uneven from the start, fair game.
But otherwise, it could well be damage they caused...
Elastichedgehog@reddit
Correct but I would just not acknowledge the countertop unless they challenged you about it. Some landlords will just deal with it.
Fawji@reddit
After 4.5 years all of that is wear and tear, perhaps get them over show them the bits and discuss with them?
LilyToeSuck@reddit
Classic wear and tear. You've wearned it first of all, then you've gone and tearned it.
Calm-Treacle8677@reddit
I’m gunna go for yes, yes, yes, maybe and no. For reasonable wear
startexed@reddit
Worth asking how deep the mark is on the countertop, could you get someone in to repair as this will mean you don’t have liability for the full countertop (or share of if it wasn’t new at the start of the tenancy)
Rest is just wear and tear
BeatificBanana@reddit
Even if the counter was brand new at the start of tenancy, they wouldn't be liable for the cost of fitting a brand new counter, because the counter is now 4+ years old - it's proportional, so they'd have to pay an amount relative to the current value of the 4+ year old counter, not a brand new one, as I understand it
mupps-l@reddit
You’re correct, landlords aren’t entitled to betterment.
GetNooted@reddit
There’s some resin and paint which can be put in to colour match. Beat get a professional in for it to get a good match. Shouldn’t cost much though.
Critical_Flounder935@reddit
Did you report any of this to the LL when it started to occur?
Splodge89@reddit
If, over the last 13 years of living in my rental, I had notified the landlord every time I noticed a bit of wear on something, they’d have thrown me out for being a PITA.
GaldrickHammerson@reddit
As a Landlord, I'd probably shrug and move on. You've been there 4.5 years and I'm selling. The only thing that probably isn't wear and tear is the countertop damage, but then all the other fittings are cheap enough I'd expect the buyer to be replacing them anyway. It's not personally worth the hastle for me to go and fight the deposit protection scheme to get these fixed.
freakstate@reddit
All of it. I'm a landlord. I wouldn't charge you for that stuff
CindersHonner123@reddit
I think a lot of the official legal standpoint has a grey areas to it.
Officially, landlords can claim full cost of replacement for the items damaged/broken in order to return the property to a rentable condition that is the same or better than the property condition when the lease is signed (less wear &tear) . Which for items within their reasonable life span can be justified as the full cost of a new item.
But as Tenants can 'must return a property in its rented state minus wear and tear'. The Tennants have a duty to the above statement, and as such, they must be allowed to opportunity maintain the property and do actions to "return the property to.." Thus, they have the right to be able to provide the repair/replacement 'like for like' themselves and be entitled to their full deposit. (Ie paint over the stains or repair the surface to a lasting quality) However , Often the contract will include a clause to be carried out by a registered/trained professional, though so you have to watch out for that as the Tennant can then be liable for the Landlord re-repairing if not done correctly. Making sure u have document of landlords agreeing (or refusing
The cost of registered labour is often an area that can play against Tennants with arguing that the item has been already used for 50% of its life expectancy cost. If you argue only owe 50% of the products cost due to its remaining life expectancy, you still have to add 100% of the installation cost to its final value.
But , if a Tennant could prove they below in their dispute quote: * they can purchase a second-hand replacement at a comparitive quality & use. * The item is readliy available, second hand. * quotes if a professional to repair or proof requares dont require a costed profesional.
Then the Landlord would struggle to legally justify a new for old replacement and would have to accept that value.
At the end of the day, all deposits should be held in a suitable scheme to protect the tenants from Deposit grabbing landlords. And all Landlords should have insurance to cover destructive Tennants.
This provides both mediation and protection opportunities from both parties.
I say all this as a person who's been on both sides of the equation.
CindersHonner123@reddit
I think a lot of the official legal standpoint has a grey area to it.
Officially, landlords can claim full cost of replacement for the items damaged/broken in order to return the home to a rentable condition.
But as Tenants can 'must return a property in its rented state minus wear and tear'. This means that a Tennant can provide the repair/replacement like for like themselves and be entitled to their full deposit. (Ie paint over the stains or repair the surface to a lasting quality) Often the contract will include a clause to be carried out by a registered professional, though so you have to watch h out for that.
Because of this , if a Tennant could prove they can purchase a second-hand replacement at a comparitive quality and used state (inclusive of install cost), or provide a clear cost of repair to lasting quality, then the Landlord would struggle to legally justify a new for old replacement, and would have to accept that value.
At the end of the day, all deposits should be held in a suitable scheme to protect the tenants from Deposit grabbing Landlords. And all Landlords should have insurance to cover destructive Tennants.
This provides both mediation and protection opportunities from both parties.
I say all this as a person who's been on both sides of the equation.
My last lodger caused about £5000 of worth of damage if i was to replace and repair the damage to a rentable standard . I would have been well within my rights to take them to small claims court for this value and repair the property to a rentable standard. I obtained advice, and I would have had a clear case to obtain this value providing i had meticulous paperwork trail of the actual cost of repair. With every purchase, clearly justified and proof of every payment that had been made.
I personally didn't want to chase that value from someone who probably couldn't afford it, i didn't have £5000 to repair with official labourers and I really didn't wish to enter a battle.
So, I instead did everything on a careful budget found second-hand where I could. Used low/no cost labour.
The difficulty with secondhand is the amount of research time and efforts to collect items means that if you were to pay an hourly rate, it would often be MORE expensive than new.
I kept every receipt , and photo of FB sales agreements. And sent them a letter with clear photography of damage and itemised costs (approx £2100 total with heavy budgetting) and kept the £500 deposit. That way, if they ever decided to argue and 'small claims me' for the deposit back, i could prove that my cost were actual, reasonable, and justifiable.
bowen7477@reddit
Anyone think of Lexington steele?
Jinther@reddit
The key word when thinking about wear and tear is reasonable.
Given how long you've lived there, are these issues reasonable, resulting from day to day living? Would the next person have the same marks after the same amount of time as you?
I think everything you have shown in the pictures falls into this category.
However, you can get ahead of yourself in the eyes of your landlord by maybe repairing the worktop, and giving the tap/handle a quick lick of paint. Both are quick and easy.
Ultimately, I think you could argue the case for reasonable wear and tear, but why not get ahead of that by doing a couple of mitigating DIY repairs.
fonzey20@reddit
Kitchen counter top needs fixing this can be done with supernoodles glue and paint
ArtisticWatch@reddit
I would say these are wear and tear but also easily fixable.
You can find a matt black radiator paint and put a layer or two on the taps.
The marks on the countertop can be filled in with a wood putty and then a grey varnish or paint over the top to blend it in.
laeriel_c@reddit
Everything seems like fair wear and tear except the countertop, since you damaged it.
Middle_Mango_566@reddit
I just moved out of place and did far worse and it was fine
I drilled holes in cabinets, had patches of paint missing etc
rileyvace@reddit
4+ years wear and tear should be considered things that you have shown.
Scuff marks and shit I usually paint over on walls, just helps give that nice extra boost to the LL/estate agent's sensibilities if you do a little something for the property before you leave, and white paint is cheap as fuck.
Stuff like worn carpets, lino, laminate flooring, skirting, paint on appliances and switches etc that are commonly touched, should all fall under fair wear and tear over that period of time.
AutoModerator@reddit
Please help keep AskUK welcoming!
When repling to submission/post please make genuine efforts to answer the question given. Please no jokes, judgements, etc.
Don't be a dick to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on.
This is a strictly no-politics subreddit!
Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.