India denies entry to UN aviation investigator in Air India crash probe, say sources
Posted by Existing-Help-3187@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 71 comments
Existing-Help-3187@reddit (OP)
Don't know what to think about it. May be their resources are not actually needed rather than a coverup.
sofixa11@reddit
Why would you directly jump to a coverup? US and UK investigators are already involved.
PositionDue7117@reddit
Definitely a “cover up” happening. Why? Because there will be a tremendous amount of lawsuits from many people. It will expose, most likely, the inadequacies of Air India, and also Boeing. They are taking way too long to inform us. They are not being transparent at all. India is filled with corruption. They are definitely going to try to cover this up, and take a long time to honestly report the black box.
_AngryBadger_@reddit
What do you mean taking way too long? Initial reports can take a month or more. Full reports months or even longer.
DifferentManagement1@reddit
They just asked to observe it sounds like
Tough-Candy-9455@reddit
Yeah this news is dated 25 June, same day they downloaded the black boxes (they announced it on 26th). So if the ICAO's concerns were the delay in the data retrieval which this article seems to suggest, makes sense that additional resources were not needed at this point.
Beaver_Sauce@reddit
Maybe not.
Entire_Forever_2601@reddit
I do question what is so unique about the crash that the ICAO is involved…
Danitoba94@reddit
Well for starters, it's the first ever crash of a 787.
And though probably less significant, the nature of the crash probably warrants international interest as well.
really_random_user@reddit
Also a total systems failiure at the worst time possible needs a closer look
PlaneYogurt13@reddit
Are you saying Pakistan might of done something?
Cultural_Thing1712@reddit
That's a huge stretch. I'm thinking a mainteinance issue as is more common in SE asia.
Sam-The-Mule@reddit
Bro India is not south east Asia
Cultural_Thing1712@reddit
Ok then, South Asia.
Are you this pedantic about everything?
Sam-The-Mule@reddit
About things that are straight up wrong, yeah
It’s like saying “America has an issue in its education system, as per usual of South America” like ?????
Cultural_Thing1712@reddit
They are literally neighboring. It's like accidentally calling a balkan country eastern european. Is it not completely correct? yeah sure. Does it matter? No,
United-Bet-6469@reddit
Strawman argument. No one considers the Indian subcontinent part of Southeast Asia. Nowhere close.
There is literally an Association of Southeast Asian Nations so it's not just an arbitrary categorisation either. You could have admitted your mistake, but chose to double down on your casual racism instead.
Cultural_Thing1712@reddit
You really tried huh. Did you watch a youtube video in fallacies to epically own reddit comments? And then you call me a racist. Calm down.
Sam-The-Mule@reddit
Just like how North America and South America are neighboring?
Cultural_Thing1712@reddit
Whatever man. If that's the part of my comment you want to pick apart feel free to do so.
PlaneYogurt13@reddit
People in east Asia don’t like being associated with Indians
SnigyWiggy@reddit
The mother of all generalized statements and bordering into the line of racism. What country do you belong from that you know Asia so well?
justauser_121@reddit
Most likely Australia, based on their profile. Not surprising though tbh lol
SnigyWiggy@reddit
Oh wow of course. Leave it to people who don't live in Asia to state this confidently that East Asians don't like Indians lol. Billions of people generalised that easily.
Danitoba94@reddit
Well you're next to the rest of Asia whether you like it or not. So unless you find a way to sever India from the rest of the continent, and move the whole landmass out to sea, that association is never going away.
Danitoba94@reddit
Cool. We in the west don't give a shit.
ThrowAwaAlpaca@reddit
Cool stoey, who cares
WorkOk4177@reddit
Thankfully India seems to be an exception to this as
The FAA and ICAO consistently rate India above average (above US even in certain metric)in their safety audits.
Danitoba94@reddit
Why on Earth do you think he said something like that?
zoltan99@reddit
You have to read between the lines
Everything bad that happens has a reason, and in this case…gremlins, of a particular origin, is suspected by certain folk
declassified15@reddit
You aren’t reading between the lines rather fitting your own narrative and prejudices here.
zoltan99@reddit
I think it’s ridiculous lol
But if you make things up, sure. Anything can be true. Shows the mindset of those who are suggesting this or “just asking the question” over and over and over and over and over
Benniisan@reddit
dude
Yolosinghdj@reddit
Rent free in
PDXGuy33333@reddit
It's still going to be a week or so before data analysis is complete so you're a lot premature declaring that there had been a "total systems failure." For all we know at this point, it could be a 100% human factors crash.
PDXGuy33333@reddit
Do not assume any system failed until data shows it.
WorkOk4177@reddit
the last time they were involved in air crash investigation was the downing of Malaysian Airlines Plane and the downing of the Ukrainian Jetliner due to military action.
and even those times ICAO was specifically asked for assistance
869066@reddit
It’s an international flight and the first ever time a 787 has crashed.
PuddlesRex@reddit
ICAO is technically involved in every single investigation for international flights. It's just that international crashes are rarer, and they usually just delegate it to the arrival or departure country, or both. This is nothing new. Per the article, ICAO just wanted an official observer, to try to make sure everything was running smoothly, and India didn't try to hide anything since India is being very hush hush about the whole thing. Which makes a lot of sense, given how much the media sensationalizes every little finding and blows it way out of proportion.
DarthDork73@reddit
Why would the UN be the guys to look at crashed when you have the ntsb?
PDXGuy33333@reddit
Could India's investigators be trying to cover something up?
NotAnF1Driver@reddit
From the corresponding Reuters article:
‘ICAO had asked for the investigator who was in India to be given observer status, but Indian authorities refused the offer, the sources said. The news was first reported on Thursday by the Indian news channel Times Now.
India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB), which is leading the probe into the world's deadliest aviation accident in a decade, did not return a request for comment.
The Indian government held only one press conference on the incident, and no questions were taken.’
Nothing to see here, we dont want you to observe our investigations, we won’t answer any questions. Move along.
Not a great look.
AdmiralDalaa@reddit
Apparently they normally come by invite only. And this time they asked to participate which has no precedent.
So no, I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad look.
NotAnF1Driver@reddit
Participating and observing are quite different. Denying ICAO, who had a representative already in the country, the chance to observe the investigation is not a good look for transparency.
The AAIB have also did not return a request for comment about this.
The Indian Government have refused to take any questions regarding the incident.
This is the deadliest aviation disaster in a decade and all eyes are on how India approaches this. How they’ve handled it so far doesn’t scream openness and transparency.
s0ulfire@reddit
India is an ICAO member so there is no need for an ICAO representative to be involved.
ICAO will get the report, just like everyone else at the same time.
Brief-Visit-8857@reddit
This
s0ulfire@reddit
Damned if you do damned if you don’t.
India doesn’t need an overseer or observer to come along during its investigation. India is already an ICAO member.
ICAO will have to wait just like everyone else, this is not a concert and no tickets are being sold.
It’s actually the right way of doing things.
OtteryBonkers@reddit
India is not an open and transparent country.
There are also current sensitivities and recent secrecy about other planes going down.
Winter2712@reddit
what other planes?
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
WorkOk4177@reddit
Plane shootdowns during conflicts aren't comparable to a civilian airline crash investigation
OtteryBonkers@reddit
whilst there are obviously clear differences, they are comparable — all plane crash investigations are comparable. Its about investigating what happened, not just why.
But what is salient now is how the Indian administration has managed the dissemination of information, and particularly public messaging. This is also a part of major investigations, and has been for a long time.
All cases have been managed differently — and notably less transparently — than what would conventionally be expected by Western audiences.
That was my point — India has recent form for not being forthcoming, don't expect the briefings and updates you might expect if this happened elsewhere.
WorkOk4177@reddit
Not comparable at all , Military aircraft crashes often contain sensitive information that can not be released simply due to the nature of the craft , circumstances leading to their shootdown are usually sensitive. Even if the IAF conducted an investigation there aren't going to the world and yell exactly how they were shot down, they will keep it to themselves.
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DifferentManagement1@reddit
But they cannot legally deny the NTSB access to the data and investigation, correct?
WorkOk4177@reddit
AAIB is already communicating with NTSB with the U.S. NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy telling reporters in Washington on Tuesday that she has had "excellent communication with those within the Indian government, the Ministry of Civil Aviation, also our counterpart at the AAIB."
TrafficOnTheTwos@reddit
Sounds like they’re discovering pilot error and they are trying to cover it up like a bunch of ultranationalists.
Tough-Candy-9455@reddit
I have no idea why people think pilot error is what will be covered up. In the 2008 Air India Mangalore crash the captain was literally sleeping in the cockpit and they did not try to cover that up.
Pilot error is an easy get out of jail card for officials who don't have do any systemic change, there may have been a swiss cheese of several faults lining up but the higher-ups and the media would have laid full blame on the guy who is not here to defend himself.
Seriously, how many instances can you think of pilot error being covered up? Now pilot suicide is a different thing.
TrafficOnTheTwos@reddit
Yeah I do agree that some type of negligence such as poor maintenance practices are more likely than pilot error.
Existing-Help-3187@reddit (OP)
Internet is not real life. Last two 737 crashes, India didnt cover up anything.
verycoolboi2k19@reddit
Im 100% sure it wasnt pilot error judging by all available vids.
The_SmoothestBrain@reddit
I feel like most countries would respond the same though, regardless of if they're trying to hide some or not, it was kinda out of left field on the UN's part.
Bourbonaddicted@reddit
Headline is misleading.
richardelmore@reddit
Are UN investigators often involved in crash investigations? Were they, for example, involved in the investigations of the 737-MAX crashes?
Not sure if this is expected or not.
MAVACAM@reddit
I mean I don't think it's at all unusual for ICAO to be interested in the first 787 hull loss that resulted in the deadliest commercial accident since MH370.
Article says they requested observer status for an investigator who was already in India - I don't see any reason why this would denied considering ICAO wouldn't be intervening anyway.
thefrowner@reddit
NTSB , Boeing and AAIB (UK) are already involved. This is a non story.
WorkOk4177@reddit
I wonder who these so called "sources" are
ICAO usually only joins an investigation under the invitation of an government organisation or when a civilian aircraft is downed due to military action.
spez666@reddit
Why all Tom Dick and Harry wants to join the investigation? Let AAIB do their job.
CollegeStation17155@reddit
Except they weren’t doing their job; they sequestered critical evidence “under guard” for almost 2 weeks before downloading it for investigators… and still won’t say why.
ExtremeBack1427@reddit
Too many cooks at this point?
Cool_83@reddit
Is their involvement stipulated in ICAO Annex 13? And do they actually have the resources to be relevant to the investigation ?