Re: Measure of a Man. Were there *toasters* in the 24th century? And if so, why?
Posted by No-Scallion-2998@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 451 comments

When CMDR Riker (gross!) initially refuses to represent LT Maddox in the formal hearings, CPT Dubois says she "will rule summarily based on my findings. Data is a toaster."
No one bats an eye. This analogy seems perfectly normal in the century of faster-than-light travel, energy-matter transporters, and food replicators ("computer: bread, wheat, lightly toasted"(?)).
My question is, could toasters really have survived a 3rd world war, first contact, and the technology boom that came after, even if just as rhetorical device as demonstrated by the JAG officer in TNG? I think my position is obvious. The toaster, as a technological device, even just as an analogy, seems wildly anachronistic in the 24th as calling texting cuneiforming today (my dweeb is showing).
I love this episode so much and CPT Dubois' line has always made me wonder why did Picard or Riker (eew!) did ask "What the hell's a toaster, Captain?"
Dubois: You see, back in the 20th and 21st centuries when people wanted their bread 'toasted', they would put the sliced bread inside these 'slots' that were in a device about this big. They'd wait about a minute while coils in the device would heat up and 'toast' the bread slices, and then the bread would POP up out of the device ready to eat. They also had a thing called avocado toast. But I don't know what that was about, it's just fruit in bread, really.
Riker: What? A hot slot?
Picard: That is absurd! Why would Data burn bread, Captain!?
Riker: Yeah! Where's his slot to stick the bread anyway? Asking for a friend...
Dubois: Gentleman, the point is that Data is a machi-
Picard: Just do your duty, Dubois!
Riker: Yeah, Captain!... about the bread-slot, how hot does it get?
deadmazebot@reddit
Haters love to find any words.
Scanning comments, doesn't Picard have a tea set? Also Janeway goes on about real coffee
If anything I can see it fading into obscurity as a device and just a slur towards robots, like other words we have today.
emeraldknight1977@reddit
It's been a long time since everyone used a butter churn, but we still know what someone is talking about when they say it, the term "run through the ringer" is a reference to old ringer washing machines, A thing doesn't have to be used to still be common knowledge.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
So the concept outlives the device? Like the floppy disc icon as a "save" on electronic devices? Fair enough. Still, you're referencing an idiomatic expression and I'm talking about an analogy.
LetTheBloodFlow@reddit
You're assuming she's referencing an actual toaster (which may or may not have made it to the 24th century, but it could be a saying.
"It's a toaster" idiom, 24th century.
Referencing a piece of electronic technology without computer interface and control, implying lack of precision, low reliability, and especially lack of advancement.
Example:
"What're you using to measure the temperature of the phase coils? A probe thermometer? That's a toaster! Use your tricorder, laddie!"
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Yeah, like I said. The concept/term outlives the device, and so toaster is used in a derogatory sense as Dubois demonstrated in the episode.
That doesn't mean people use them to toast bread, does it?
"A Nintendo Switch 2 costs 600 bucks" means it costs 600 dollars even though we don't trade deerskins any longer. The concept (trade/currency) outlives the object/device usage.
IamZed@reddit
She was a big Battle Star Galactica fan.
dlrich12@reddit
So say we all…
dimgray@reddit
Replicators are used on starship where energy is limitless and storage space is not. Most people living on planets still eat real food and bread ain't gonna just toast itself
RocketDog2001@reddit
On the contrary, by the 34th century they will have invented self-toasting bread.
owen-87@reddit
Wasn't Keiko a little horrified when she find out her mother-in-law actually prepared real food?
DBDG_C57D@reddit
I don’t think it was so much that it was real food just the meat that freaked her out. I got the feeling that she is more vegetarian and if she ate any meat that it was probably replicated or some kind of substitute and definitely not the real deal.
Remote-Pie-3152@reddit
In the first season of TNG they say humanity doesn’t “enslaved animals for food” anymore, so I’ve always assumed that by real meat, they mean real meat grown in a lab rather than on an animal.
Th3_0range@reddit
I honestly don't think my great grandchildren will eat much "real" meat. It's all going to be lab grown/printed and only people with money or who raise their own animals to slaughter or hunt wild will be able to afford the real thing.
redditforinf0@reddit
You really can't take anything in the first season of TNG seriously though. No one had their footing or knew what the show was really going to be yet. The writing was bad, and even Picard had some slips.
Remote-Pie-3152@reddit
It’s certainly at least true that a lot of what happened in season 1 should be ignored and is outright contradictory with later stuff, but I personally doubt that even those humans who wanted to eat real would want to harvest it from living animals when real meat from a cloning vat was an option. Maybe in survival situations, or when trying food on alien worlds, but I think it would be… really weird for humans of the 24th century to still be farming animals for their meat. A lot weirder than still using toasters.
redditforinf0@reddit
Really? Just to play Devil's advocate what about food made from insects? Was there ever anything like that on any of the Treks?
DBDG_C57D@reddit
I know we see humans eat gagh and other Klingon foods pretty regularly in DS9 and occasionally Ferengi grubs so at least some people don’t have a problem with buggy kinds of foods but then again from Jake’s reactions to the grubs he still thought it was weird at least.
blyattBear@reddit
I could be wrong, but I think he's talking about cricket flour type of bugs
Remote-Pie-3152@reddit
And the Conspiracy alien bugs, those guys really loved their mealworms
RocketDog2001@reddit
As an American that has moved to Mexico I can appreciate the feeling that food is "unclean" when it's probably fine.
operator-as-fuck@reddit
what about Mexican food felt 'unclean' to you?
RocketDog2001@reddit
Street chicken and shrimp, no ice occasionally a towel to keep the flies off and that's it.
operator-as-fuck@reddit
I suppose I am taking this personally, upon reflection. But none of those things seem Mexico-specific. You'd find analogous issues with NY hotdog stands or LA street food. Mexico is renowned for its food, and not something I associate with being "unclean." If anything I associate it with more with fine-dining rather than unclean risky food. I hope to go it's Michelin starred restaurants one day. Nobody should be eating street shrimp anyway lol US, Mexico, or anywhere else
RocketDog2001@reddit
My wife is Mexican, we are casually slogging through immigration but we're overall happy and not in a hurry. If you don't mind I will send you a picture of the street chicken.
Humidity is no joke, there is very little violent crime (excluding the cartels which are very real) but there is definitely a lot of theft. Cost of living is definitely a little higher than my part of California. Street food is pretty good, but I have gotten sick 2x in 6 years vs 2 times in 37 years in California.
Overall, I like Mexico very much and would have little problem staying indefinitely.
operator-as-fuck@reddit
Yeah that'd be great!
Well I can't argue with that lol
that's dope tho, I'm glad you like it. my family is from there and we're always visiting, and with everything going on I guess I am a little touchy. lived there as a kid but don't remember it, but I've always fantasized about living there for a few years. the cost of living thing tho surprises me, my fantasy of living there always assumed a much lower cost of living.
Raguleader@reddit
I ordered street chicken in Korea once. I was concerned about the food safety but decided that since it was a frozen winter day the chicken was probably at least as good as being kept in the fridge.
It was fantastic.
boring-goldfish@reddit
"Honey, I think these beans have been fried... more than once!"
rayhoughtonsgoals@reddit
Sure but it's Keiko. Shes hardly a barometer for hardcore lifestyles.
AJSLS6@reddit
Real meat specifically, I gather that vegetarianism and even veganism is closer to the norm in the future. Makes sense if we came out of a 3rd world war, then rapidly expanding into space while rebuilding society with high technology. Millions of acres of cattle and other animal farms were probably not very practical. Not to mention the influence of the Vulcans.
LordKaliatos@reddit
Maybe her Mother in Law is just a horrible Cook.
FuckIPLaw@reddit
Real meat, wasn't it?
Also, by the 24th century they could have those lightsaber knives from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movie that toast as they cut.
Dalakaar@reddit
True.
However, you've failed to take into account that O'Brien must suffer.
CanadianAndroid@reddit
Just use a phaser set to toast.
NonEuclidianMeatloaf@reddit
Instructions unclear, set phaser to wide dispersal and vaporized family
RocketDog2001@reddit
Instructions unclear d*ck stuck in toaster.
Fantastic_Estate_303@reddit
Instructions unclear, d*ck stuck in Data
Dragonxan@reddit
Instructions unclear, date stick stuck in d*ck
Fantastic_Estate_303@reddit
Instructions unclear, dck stuck in replicator and now I have 5 dicks
Dragonxan@reddit
.........Your missus is welcome, I guess???
sjbluebirds@reddit
Toast was the only thing Tasha Yar would eat.
Cowboy_Reaper@reddit
Fully functional and toasted with multiple techniques.
sjbluebirds@reddit
Better than Worf's BBC (Burnt Beyond Crisp) toast.
LOUDCO-HD@reddit
I think it is one green bar below vaporize.
Interesting_Basil_80@reddit
Ha! Set phasers to Bacon!
SupermanFarris83@reddit
That's a good one!
MonsieurCatsby@reddit
Ah, there's an interesting story behind this stem bolt. In 2365, I remember it was, I got up in the morning and made myself a piece of toast. I set the phaser to three, medium brown
Pongoid@reddit
Wow, that’s the greatest invention since sliced bread!
BluesLawyer@reddit
Personally, I think a bread slicer is a far better invention than sliced bread.
MadMaxBeyondThunder@reddit
This invention is the greatest thing since self-toasting bread!
Graega@reddit
If it's anything like Professor Frink's self-cooking hotdog, I'm not gonna eat that.
BigConstruction4247@reddit
Well, Star Trek TNG takes place in the 24th century, so that self toasting bread is 1000 years away.
spectre73@reddit
Keiko was incredulous that O'Brien's mom cooked.
Picard's dad refused to get a replicator because he "understood better than anybody else the danger of losing those values which we hold most precious."
Training_Cut704@reddit
Riker also cooked eggs. 🤷🏻♂️
Number127@reddit
And was fine with his daughter murdering small animals so that he could have sausage on his pizza.
BurdenedMind79@reddit
Well, so long as they didn't enslave the animal beforehand.
Batgirl_III@reddit
Riker also happily makes sausage pizza out of a freshly rabbit-unicorn-thingy that his daughter had killed about fifteen minutes before hand…
Training_Cut704@reddit
To be fair, the bunnicorn was not enslaved. It died free.
Guess we don’t have enough info on the eggs.
murphsmodels@reddit
I guess it depends on your concept of "enslave". Keep them in a box, feeding them heavily processed food and genetically engineering them to produce more meat more quickly...that's enslaving. Allowing them to roam freely and eat what they want, and only killing them when they're ready to die is a lot more freedom.
dimgray@reddit
I mean, Keiko is incredulous that O'Brien's mom handled real raw meat, which implies there's a way around Riker's thing. Anyway, I took it as commentary on the difference between Miles' childhood in Ireland and Keiko's in Japan, it's comforting to know not everyone on Earth does things the same way
Enchelion@reddit
Even if you like to cook, replicating the ingredients sounds pretty darn convenient. I assume Sisko replicated plenty of ingredients that weren't his prized peppers.
tandyman8360@reddit
Picard's brother felt the same way. They also had a vineyard when presumably a replicator could just create wine from a pattern. Deep Space Nine had restaurants and a bar with prepared foods, also Sisko's on Earth. Probably whoever wrote the episode just didn't want to use replicator as the non-sentient device.
Resident_Beautiful27@reddit
Or knives that slice and toast the bread at the same time.
Dalakaar@reddit
The Phaser-knife 9000! only available at Ferengi retailers near you.
roentgen85@reddit
https://i.redd.it/dtj69grlze9f1.gif
brian_hogg@reddit
That is an excellent display of why that is a bad idea.
JBaecker@reddit
How many bars of platinum?!
SteveMcQwark@reddit
Not now, Trillion.
RetroGamer87@reddit
Sometimes I wonder how life is for civilians in Star Trek. Do they go to Sisko's Creole Kitchen because they want to or because they don't have a replicator?
Are there holosuites on earth?
Can I live in a holosuite and make it look like the inside of a house?
Can I live inside of an industrial replicator and replicate new furniture on demand?
How did Magnus and Erin Hansen get their own starship?
Raguleader@reddit
One of my favorite details in Star Trek: Picard was them using the holodeck as an office to hold meetings in. I'm pretty sure it was just part of the Chateau Picard set like Picard carries around an isolinear chip with his home office loaded on it.
DawnOnTheEdge@reddit
People don’t need to work to survive, but do jobs that are meaningful to them. Preserving African-American culture is very important to the Siskos.
Dalakaar@reddit
Imagine anyone can have a restaurant if they feel like it. The best naturally rise to the top in this situation.
And I would assume on a federation planet that everyone has access to enough food to live.
***
Definitely.
***
No. But this is a great question that is sort of addressed in TNG and VOY with Barclay.
The short of it is, that it would be perceived (rightfully) as a mental health issue and treatment would presumably follow.
You also would not have enough time in the suite to make that a living situation.
***
Yes. But you may have to involve the Ferengi and pay for it.
***
Got me there lol.
But seriously, how does Quark's cousin own a moon!?
Also, as a random tangentially relevant tidbit, Seven of Nine's parents probably shouldn't have been given as much free license as they were,
Just saiyan.
Beginning_Sun696@reddit
Well Quarks Cousin Gailin is an arms dealer
themcryt@reddit
Couldn't someone "own" a holosuite, as much as Jean-Luc's brother "owned" a home?
RetroGamer87@reddit
I moon that resembles Phobos might be possible. Might be possible to mine it too. A moon that resembles Titan, not so much.
Hexmonkey2020@reddit
So is energy less prevalent on planets for some reason so replicators aren’t as practical or is it just that replicated food isn’t as good as normal so when they have the option they’ll take normal food?
Vulcan_Jedi@reddit
My head canon is that replicated food tastes like eating an MRE. It’ll fill you up but if you have the option you’d probably go for something else.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Tbf- neither seem reasonable. Nobody really complains about replicator food, and it is a post scarcity society, so they likely use some form of replicators.
themcryt@reddit
I guess "real food" isn't made from shit. At least, not directly.
Code_Warrior@reddit
When Miles O'brien offered to cook for Keiko, she responded with incredulity that he or his family had experience cooking with real food. He tells her about his mother back on Earth (I think it was his mother and Earth), and she is still really surprised.
SpookyMaidment@reddit
And yet, Sisko's father still cooks food with real ingredients back on Earth and Quark serves real distilled spirits and other brewed beverages on DS9. I think Kieko's family might be the exception outside of federation starship life.
newoldm@reddit
There were probably some functioning galleys on star ships. On the Voyager, Neelix was a cook and utilized one.
MobsterDragon275@reddit
I wouldn't say most ate real food. Sisko and his dad in DS9 made it out like actually cooking was a rare practice on Earth by that point, and the Marquis also imply that eating non replicated food is a rarity, enough so that Eddington made a really big deal of it
DanteHicks79@reddit
As established in season 4’s “Family,” most terrestrial homes had replicators - Robert Picard staunchly refused to install one in his home.
melasses@reddit
No, I’m fairly sure Picards brother mentioned their family was unusual for not having an replicator.
Heavy_E79@reddit
It's easy to eat replicated toast in paradise, but those people don't live in paradise.
Pm7I3@reddit
I'd place money that there is a group of people adamant that bread toasted in a toaster is better than replicated toast and they will passionately argue about this opinion and which kinds of toasters are best.
RadioSlayer@reddit
And you'd win, I just watched the episode where Sisko and Eddington go into the badlands last night (S05E23). Eddington has a lot to say about textured carbohydrates
Lawnmover_Man@reddit
Energy is limitless everywhere in the Federation, for everyone.
Fake_Answers@reddit
Sorta like Sisko's dad's restaurant. Different show of course but same time frame.
marcus_lepricus@reddit
I think Tasha Yar would confirm that Data does indeed replicate very well.
DamageVegetable9112@reddit
S tier comment
LOUDCO-HD@reddit
He was programmed in a variety of techniques afterall.
Reasonable_Gift7525@reddit
Tasha Yar’s cyber womb is the replicators we made along the way
themcryt@reddit
Hijacking the top comment to say; I assume everything we hear as viewers is run through the UT, so it's entirely possible to me that Dubois actually said a different simple device, and it's translated to us as toaster because that word best fits her meaning, given that we here are not familiar with the "dumb' devices of that time period.
zombiehoosier@reddit
Example: Kirk uses one in Generations
EffectiveSalamander@reddit
I presume in the 24th century people still like to bake bread, and if they bake bread, they might like to toast it.
RaechelMaelstrom@reddit
People making sourdough was the death sentence for those gel packs.
jc2pointzero@reddit
Why do you say eew and gross when mentioning Riker? Did he turn out to be a sex pest or something?
Status_Tiger_6210@reddit
brian_hogg@reddit
If I remember correctly, in the beginning of that episode, she and Picard have a conversation that involves “buy you a drink,” but they live in a society with no money.
And strictly speaking, with centuries of abundant utopia and better healthcare, they’d probably look unrecognizable to modern humans.
And given how quickly languages evolve, people talking in the 24th century will be incomprehensible to us, much like how Shakespearean dialogue is to us now.
But the shows are written by present-day writers for present-day audiences, so idioms that we understand make sense. Plus, if they invented some new expressions, we wouldn’t understand them.
“He’s a toaster” is something we understand as the audience, and we don’t have to stop and think. But if they went with a neologism, like “He’s a non-reciprocating silobode,” it might take us out of the moment.
Plus, everybody has access to a universal translator, so maybe she didn’t use the toaster comparison. Maybe that’s just how the audience hears it, but in the reality of the scene, she uses a 24th century idiom.
Lewis314@reddit
"retro cooking" is probably a hobby
Lewis314@reddit
Just be on guard if it greets you with " howdy, doody Doo"
xsnyder@reddit
Talkies the name, toastings the game!
andychef@reddit
Capt Pike agrees with you
nebelmorineko@reddit
We use phrasing in our language today which is archaic. That's why you see 'toe the line' and 'tow the line' because people don't know where the phrase came from, even if it has a meaning to them. 'Head 'em up!' is something I remember being told as a child when a group of us needed to get ready. Then there's 'putting the cart before the horse'.
I'm sure there's other examples too...but also as other people mentioned people on planets probably eat differently than on a spaceship. They may often eat out of a household replicator like we eat fast food out of laziness/convenience, but it's at least mixed reviews on if it's as good as 'real' food or not. Toasters may look somewhat different, but they probably have some means to toast stuff in a house and the phase is in language as meaning 'a simple machine'.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
I'm not talking about idiomatic expressions. Those are different and persists for different reasons.
I'm talking about toasters. Things. Technology. To put it another way, why would there be toasters in the 24th century?
Brachiomotion@reddit
Because some people don't use replicators all the time and like toast. The parent comment explained this all quite well. I don't understand why you'd ask the question
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Apologies. Let me clarify. Toasters, as we know them today, would they be around? You said they may look different going forward. Ok. But I never said we wouldn't have toast in the 24th.
This is about using the word toaster as analogous to Data. Are toasters THAT common that the word persisted or is she just using it as a derogatory term to denigrate Data? Did the term survive on its own? Kind of like buck for dollar in the US, even though people don't use deerskins as currency but still call them bucks?
Idiomatic expressions and analogies are two different things.
Dubois made an analogy "Data is a toaster."
You gave an example of an idiomatic expression. "Toe the line."
These things are different rhetorical devices, and are not comparable.
One phrase's meaning isn't literal, it's a military expression meaning to obey. The other is a comparison of 2 things to clarify one of them.
My bad if my response was confusing but it seemed that we're talking about different things.
nebelmorineko@reddit
Okay, well another way to look at it, is that we still have a certain meaning in mind when we say someone is 'robot' or doing something 'robotically' even though robots are currently very diverse, some are very swift and nimble from a drone to the new animatronics that Disney is developing or the little running robots. Robots were very different when that phrase first started being used, but people kept using it because it meant something specific that language didn't have a way of describing before.
We also say someone is 'worth their salt' even though we haven't paid people in salt for centuries. Language persists and using 'toaster' to mean a simple machine may have persisted because there wasn't another word or phrase that meant 'a simple machine'. She could have said that more elegantly, but she was being flip and a little demeaning. By saying 'toaster' she is also trivializing him as something to be used by humans for menial and not very important tasks.
Brachiomotion@reddit
Machines that toast would still be around. Maybe they would use phasers or some shit, but they would still be called toaster. So yes, as has been clarified a few times now, they would know the term toaster as a contemporary machine that makes toast and not as some anachronistic term.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
But "he is a toaster", is an idiomatic expression- even today.
When we say that about robots- we don't literally mean that they are bread toasting machines- we are making a statement about their humanity- as in, they should be treated, the same as we treat toasters
TheHYPO@reddit
I can’t say I’ve ever heard anyone use that idiom outside of this episode.
IKindaPlayEVE@reddit
Why are there sailboats today?
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Rich dicks, I don't know.
TheHYPO@reddit
Igniting the midnight petroleum
Complex_Professor412@reddit
Whovian73@reddit
Came looking for talkie toaster!
StormSliders@reddit
That's another bready question
SirStocksAlott@reddit
SupermanFarris83@reddit
Why not? They would be antique collectibles.
TwilightReader100@reddit
My retort to her saying this is that SHE'S the toaster. Nobody gets to talk about Data like that.
huskiesofinternets@reddit
She actually meant a cylon.
RegeneratingCan@reddit
Does anybody want any toast?
Deraj2004@reddit
Janeway did call her replicator a glorified toaster.
Delhijoker@reddit
Paris had a toaster in the episode they find out b’lanna is pregnant.
whatsbobgonnado@reddit
tom randomly mentions edgar allen poe and it felt like such a weird ancient reference for a guy obsessed with crappy b movies
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Oh I forgot about that! Do you remember the episode?
Deraj2004@reddit
Voyager episode Ashes to Ashes, S6E18
StandWithSwearwolves@reddit
might want to turn down that toaster
ZealousidealClub4119@reddit
Too late for that pot roast
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Thank you!
Historyp91@reddit
Mmm. Toast...
Throwaway_inSC_79@reddit
Fraking toasters.
Lostinthestarscape@reddit
Look Gaius - you fraking toasters is what got us into this mess.
Throwaway_inSC_79@reddit
Tbf, I’d give her nuclear secrets too.
Lostinthestarscape@reddit
Hmmm yeah probably.
Infamous-Lab-8136@reddit
I was going to say it was just that BSG stayed incredibly popular in the future
Ach4t1us@reddit
Techmagos, is that you?
HTired89@reddit
She was calling him a Cylon
Ched_Flermsky@reddit
I mean, people still cook. If you want toast, a toaster still seems like the best way.
seventhcatbounce@reddit
I think the question you are asking could be summerised as "Would any one like some Toast?"
AtheistCarpenter@reddit
Look, nobody here wants any smegging toast, alright!
andychef@reddit
Computer, toast, hot
BABarracus@reddit
Galaxy hipsters
Raguleader@reddit
To be fair, toasters were the greatest thing since sliced bread.
But also these are folks that cosplay as 20th century private detectives and perform Shakespeare. I feel like toasters might just be in the pop culture zeitgeist the same way scrolls are for us even though we rarely ever deal with them.
Money-Detective-6631@reddit
It meant he was a useful appliance like a stove or a toaster or a washing machine.. He was a walking talking computer that did everything the Enterprise computer did but he has a personality of course.....He was much more than a useful tool to be used and discarded.....The replicator and the holders were more permanent computers....
Final-Fun8500@reddit
This contemporary reference always bothered me. If only I'd known what was to come later...
dravenonred@reddit
In a world where people can type a bunch of text prompts into their phone and get a fully synthesized custom image immediately, who would know what a paintbrush is?"
That's...that's kind of where you're going with this.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
We still have and use paint brushes today. Have you not seen them?
dravenonred@reddit
That's exactly my point. We still have paintbrushes just like the Federation can easily still have toasters in common use. Technology doesn't wipe away basic day to day tools from memory
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
So why aren't we using clay tablets to write?
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Did you notice you just referenced a writing tool used thousands of years ago?
Yet somehow, it's almost universal knowledge- no one wrote "what is a clay table" even though- peobably no one in this thread has ever even seen one.
Kinda goes against your point, don't you think?
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
When did you start cuneiforming?
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
Never. Yet, I am capable of recognizing what cuniform is.
Isn't it surprizing, that after thousands of years of something not being in use, and it's original meaning forgotten- what it is, is still widely remembered?
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Because I used the WORD cuneiforming and NOT clay tablets in the OP.
No one commented on that, but jumped when I said 'clay tablet' in the comments
I wonder why... Aside from the internet being full of functional illiterates
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
I don't think I understand.
You mentioned the name of a writing system, which no one has used in a couple thousand years.
Yet, I immediately knew what you were talking about.
Why do you assume thr mention of a toaster, after much less time, not be recognized as well?
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Yes, in the OP, then again in the comments.
But people only respond to me when I said "clay tablets" and not cuneiforming which is my entire point of this OP. Using the word and device, but people are just fixated on dang ol toasters and toast. Lol.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
In the 24th, Reddit and the Internet will be an indictment on the US Education system
mittenknittin@reddit
Some people do, rarely. And since you brought them up, obviously they haven’t been completely been erased from the collective awareness. It’s just not a commonly used form of writing anymore because we have invented far more convenient methods. Not all technologies get wiped out. And not all technologies remain in use.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
There it is: "It’s just not a commonly used form of writing anymore because we have invented far more convenient methods."
Instead of writing, think toasting bread and that's my approach to Dubois' line
TheHYPO@reddit
The fact that she says “Data is a toaster” is not any indication that toasters are common or used in the 24th century. It just means that people know what one is. That’s the point they are making.
Frankly, in the context, it’s possible she intentionally chose an outdated overly simple device to call Data, to irk Picard.
steveyp2013@reddit
Yes...but everyone still knew what it was
Which disproved your point
If everyone was like "huh? What's a clay tablet?" Then you could celebrate
But you just literally demonstrated that people, even if toasters weren't widely in use anymore, would understand the phrase
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
People understand cuneiforming today? Really?
steveyp2013@reddit
I mean, well educated people like in stat fleet? Yes.
I knew what you meant by cuneiform. Plenty of people did. The meaning wasn't lost on us.
And I don't mean understand like can read it and you know that.
But people understood you right? They knew what you meant? Yeah.
You're being pretty thick here man. It's really not as far fetched as you are making it out to be. You really are the only one who feels this way lol
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Geez, okay.
No one uses clay tablets yet knows what they are. Cool. Toasters are awesome.
Sorry for being thick
steveyp2013@reddit
Lol, always playing the victim huh?
You caught an attitude with everyone first, not the other way around haha
For real though. It isn't far fetched. People have tried to say that and offer opinions, and you just tell everyone they are wrong.
So why post? Like honestly asking
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
No, no. Too little to late.
Toasters will never change in 200 years. You're right. Back to my hole and sad victimhood.
You won.
steveyp2013@reddit
Got it
Good luck with it bud
You chose this, just like im sure you always do.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Oh no my ego
Vargrr@reddit
It's a figure of speech.
We have many common figures of speech today that make absolutely no sense if you look at the words, because the situation or thing they applied to no longer exists. However, people still use them because everyone knows what they mean.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Idiomatic expressions are not analogies.
Vargrr@reddit
That is true in this case as the example's meaning that I provide can easily be deduced as the kettle and pot are analogous to the situation.
However, my original viewpoint still stands. As long as the population at large understand what a figure of speech means, it doesn't matter whether it is idiomatic or analogous. All that matters is that it is popular.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
No, you see, idiomatic expressions and analogies are different types of speeches, if you will.
One speech aims to clarify an object by comparing 2 things (analogy).
The other's speech meaning is not literal, but can derived from its original context if you understand the context: kettle/pot calling black means being a hypocrite.
Indeed. I can see the term toaster outliving the device in usage, especially in a derogatory sense, which is what Dubois does.
Vargrr@reddit
I freely admit language is not my main game in town :)
mix_master_meow@reddit
Data is a toaster....................I want to take a bath with him.
Mental-Street6665@reddit
People still know about 17th century technology today even if we don’t actually use it anymore. The analogy still stands.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Not all technologies survive. And Hell, there are people today that can't use a rotary phone or a hand powered washing machine.
rolyfuckingdiscopoly@reddit
I love that you think we will just have a “toaster replacement” like we haven’t all been using books for hundreds of years.
To toast bread, homie.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Of course books. Never thought of that. How silly of me. Thank you. Wow.
I mean how did we ever toast bread before toasters anyways. Baffles the mind huh?
Done_With_That_One@reddit
Didn't Kirk use a toaster when he was in the nexus in Generations?
Johnsendall@reddit
Durosity@reddit
Say what you will about Generations, I loved that scene. The nostalgia was perfect, with the painting of the Enterprise and all the weapons (like he had in Star Trek 3), the music, the back and forth with Picard.. “Besides I think the galaxy owes me one”.. it all just worked so well.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Yes
murphsmodels@reddit
Sure, you can walk up to a replicator and order "2 slices of whole wheat bread, lightly toasted, buttered, with a heavy sprinkling of cinnamon sugar on top." But how do you know it'll be done the way you like it? Unless you programmed it yourself, you're relying on somebody else's interpretation of the recipe. Not to mention, replicated food just tastes..off. Like it's only a molecular copy instead of a quantum copy of real food.
strolpol@reddit
I still plan to use toaster as my robot slur of choice if it becomes relevant in my lifetime
ThePeaceDoctot@reddit
I'm going with vibrator.
LinuxMatthews@reddit
Yeah people still say "You sound like a broken record" despite records really only being used by a very small percentage of the population.
A Save Logo is still a floppy disk despite no one using them anymore.
Could just be a standard way to say something is a basic machine.
While Data is a lot more advanced we do know that other androids existed before him.
Liquid_Magic@reddit
So say we all!
X-1701@reddit
And they have a plan.
Stealurownfncamel@reddit
Frack.
slepnir@reddit
The plan: we're going to Tahiti.
Batgirl_III@reddit
It’s a magical place.
Floydianslip77@reddit
I understand this reference! 😁
Santa_Hates_You@reddit
(there was no plan)
No_Coms_K@reddit
So say we all.
rrsullivan3rd@reddit
I was gonna say lol
Doogie_Gooberman@reddit
I'll remember that, since I am already Team Robot. This is and has always been my "what if Skynet happens" strategy.
"Hey, Mr. T-800! That guy over there called you the T WORD! Yeah, he said it with a hard R!"
Gears_and_Beers@reddit
They will remember this comment and it will be used against you in your trial.
SharMarali@reddit
I plan to call them all Bender and tell them to go drink a beer.
Acceptingoptimist@reddit
Snowblower can also be used as a yo mama joke.
RocketDog2001@reddit
And it will.
strolpol@reddit
I don’t know, I’ve seen a lot of demos but yet to see a single humanoid one that can pass the “use a stairwell unassisted” test that ED209 failed
LowmoanSpectacular@reddit
Clanka is right there
DwightDavid1234@reddit
Didn’t Tom Paris build (or replicate) a toaster?
Consistent_Photo_248@reddit
You think that's English they are speaking?
Toaster is just the word the universal translator chose for us to understand the context of the phrase she was using.
Lubberworts@reddit
Well, they didn't explain what a toaster was to them.
Imagine that someone from medieval times suddenly watched an episode of Andy Griffith and couldn't figure out why Floyd the barber wasn't bleeding people. (or was he?)
In the future a toaster could be something that cleans toes. Or a pet robot frog. Maybe it's a familiar sound that signals the beginning of an event. Maybe it's a machine that makes a synthetic lubricant that mimics the water that drips from a female deer's eyes. I'm betting on either the last one or the bread thing.
EndersMirror@reddit
Considering they still use the term “paperwork”, some words achieve a certain level of esoteric connection that gets permanently burned into the general lexicon. “It’s a toaster” has become synonymous with “it’s just a device that does something for me.”
Degora2k@reddit
Frackin' toasters.
_R_A_@reddit
All this has happened before...
newoldm@reddit
If people wanted toast, I imagine there would have to be. There would still be stoves, ovens and other appliances for preparing food unless one wants to use a replicator which only does that - replicates; it doesn't cook.
k00_x@reddit
My guess is that schools continue to fail in investing in new textbooks between now and 2400.
When I was learning to speak German in the late 90s, my school had textbooks from the 70s so it taught phrases like 'groovy man' and 'pipping in the groove'. (Phrases that have seldom come up in my everyday conversation.)
I would like to see wil Wheaton's face as he opens his books only to discover 400 years of graffiti and mustaches drawn on every page. I'd imagine he'd prolly be the first to add a mustache to any picture of Captain Archer.
PeenerPan69@reddit
Fresh bread is the shit, and I like my bread toasty
Few_Rule7378@reddit
I’ll toast to that! Cheers!
CoastingUphill@reddit
I prefer fresh beard
Iamblikus@reddit
No kidding. So he’s this amazing thing that makes something amazing more amazing? Why aren’t there more of him?
Ragnarsworld@reddit
The whole episode was really rather dumb. They would have resolved any questions about Data's sentience long before they even thought about giving him a Starfleet commission.
rayhoughtonsgoals@reddit
To toast bread?
younocallMkII@reddit
Man she was attractive… and was on MASH, too.
Swimming_Drink_6890@reddit
Would toast come pre-toasted in a replicator?
SneakingCat@reddit
Yes. As for why: To warm bread.
Replicators are inefficient because whatever the efficiency of matter/antimatter reaction may (or may not) be, the process to make the antimatter for it is not. Think of a starship as a battery, with the matter and antimatters being the charge. We never see the work going into the charging of it. The Bussard collector gathers the matter, but the antimatter has to come from somewhere. And it's dangerous. Antimatter production is something done in dedicated facilities in the orbit of stars for technology requiring it, and it's not going to replace grain production or making fresh bread where the resources to do so are readily available.
If Star Trek had 100% safe and free energy generation, they would use that on starships and avoid making explosive starships. 😀
SpiritualAudience731@reddit
Probably. I remember Picard's sister-in-law wanted to get a replicator so she didn't have to cook. If people still cook, then they probably still use toasters.
BohemianGamer@reddit
This always bothered me, why couldn’t she have a replicator, they are free like everything on earth.
SpiritualAudience731@reddit
Her husband was anti replicator.
BuffaloRedshark@reddit
Plenty of people still do real cooking in tng times.
Technical_Inaji@reddit
Replicated toast just doesn't hit the same. It's always either too dry or soggy.
PeanutTimely6846@reddit
Just because food replicators aboard starship didn't necessarily mean that they were used planetside.
The long voyages through space meant that starships couldn't really expect to get resupplied all that often, so.... food replicators.
Meanwhile, on Earth and other planets, there is plenty of land for food production, and by extension, the means to cook the food.
So, it's easily believable that the toaster could remain relevant into the 23rd(?) Century.
F0l3yDaD_@reddit
To toast bread… duh
Unlikely-Counter-195@reddit
Enough people must enjoy vintage things to keep in common vernacular.
Ramius117@reddit
There was an episode where Riker tries cooking eggs on a skillet to bring everyone together. I'd imagine other appliances are still around in some capacity.
LigerSixOne@reddit
If you know what a gladius is, I see no reason they wouldn’t know a toaster. If I see an iPhone 10, I might compliment it as a wireless telegraph.
allylisothiocyanate@reddit
They show a toaster in use on screen in Generations
decompiled-essence@reddit
Star Trek: Generations.
Kirk is making eggs (burning them) , he makes toast using a toaster.
We can assume that the device is still popular during the TNG Era as well.
GracefulGoron@reddit
Wait a minute…
Can/Does anyone cook eggs (properly) in the future?
decompiled-essence@reddit
Riker makes an omelet in season 2 and Dr.Palaski comments "I see you have practiced hand."
So it's more of an art then a chore.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Or that Kirk is a hipster
decompiled-essence@reddit
Excellent deduction, Kirk may indeed be a hipster.
Cowboy_Reaper@reddit
I have a question? Does Commander William Riker just give OP the ick? Or is there something specific about him causing the "gross and eew" comments?
ThisIsAdamB@reddit
She is a fan of that old sci-fi show from the 20th century: Battleship Gattica.
longdancer66@reddit
A Futurama crossover would have Professor Farnsworth teach Data to feel love.
Moist_Transition325@reddit
Replicators use poop to remake into food.
People on planets still grow food to eat. The 24th century version of a toaster may be different and energy efficient but I hope it's still basically the same.
Mr_SunnyBones@reddit
Talky Toaster ...." did somebody say TOAST!!'
ThrustersToFull@reddit
Yes there are. In fact, Tom Paris is shown to have one in Voyager.
Floydada79235@reddit
On Voyager, there’s a scene where Neelix refers to someone sounding like a “travel brochure.” Out of date even today.
One_Rope_5900@reddit
DawnOnTheEdge@reddit
Did you have ChatGPT write that, for maximum irony?
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Cool
DawnOnTheEdge@reddit
O’Brien and Sisko’s parents, and Picard’s brother, all prepare food their culture’s traditional ways, at least some of the time. It’s an important part of their heritage.
MozeDad@reddit
I haven't seen a Model T in years, but most people would get the reference to something old.
FabQuartz@reddit
"Hoist with his own petard." I don't think most people even know what a "petard" is.
AccioDownVotes@reddit
Like some sort of cotton jin?
MozeDad@reddit
23 skidoo!
twoodfin@reddit
And indeed Professor Rasmussen makes that analogy to Data who corrects him: Lore was the Model T, Data is the Model A!
lotus2471@reddit
Wrong franchise
thorleywinston@reddit
They have toasters but they don't use them for making toast nor do their recognize their sentience.
sensibl3chuckle@reddit
Bro, I have a mortar and pestle sitting in my kitchen. Do you know when those things were invented?
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
You're missing the point...
SenorTron@reddit
You're missing the point.
Ground spices can be bought, but people today still buy whole spices and grind them themselves.
sensibl3chuckle@reddit
I see the toaster as an ageless device.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
So nothing better will ever come along? Fair enough
sensibl3chuckle@reddit
Yes, I would upgrade mine with a robot arm that also spreads butter.
Emm_withoutha_L-88@reddit
WTF is the problem with Riker? He's not some sex pest like joking memes will say. So weird..
jrdineen114@reddit
While replicators do exist, they're mostly used on starships where storage space is limited, but energy is abundant. We do know that the federation does place value on cultural practices, and food and its preparation are often considered core parts of culture. Maybe people just get really into toast in the 22nd century?
Doctor_Danguss@reddit
By “toaster” she’s comparing Data to a Cylon.
Effective_Jury4363@reddit
The have access to plenty of 20th century media- including one with robots in it. They could very likely just believe a "toaster" is a term for a simple robot/machine.
Languages today still have a lot vestigial phrases- phrases that lost their meaning, but are still used.
Montag_451@reddit
I always wondered about this line...... but I let it go.
MadMaxBeyondThunder@reddit
"Toaster" is Battlestar Galactica reference. They must be in the same universe.
naraic-@reddit
People might or might not know what a toaster is but people probably still order bread toasted from a replicator. Usage like that would preserve toaster in idiomatic expression.
JimPlaysGames@reddit
Maybe toaster refers to some new kind of machine we don't have and they use that name for them.
axe1970@reddit
Howdy doodly do! Would anyone like any toast
MatteoGFXS@reddit
Look, I don't want any toast, and he doesn't want any toast. In fact, no one around here wants any toast. Not now, not ever. No toast.
Cliomancer@reddit
Aside from peoole still probably using toasters, we still understand computers as "glorified abacuses" even though calculators have rendered them redundant.
YouNeedAnne@reddit
We don't still have chariots. We know what they are though.
Mysterious-Tutor-867@reddit
BSG is still really popular in STNG time. She considers him a Cylon.
Dayreach@reddit
I just assumed they have some sort of more advanced heating device for cooking real food that they still call a toaster for old times sake. The same way people still use a floppy disk as a save icon long after we stopped using the disks themselves
DJDoena@reddit
The war with the Cylons is not forgotten!
DazzlingClassic185@reddit
People in C24 still like a bit of toast now and then? 🤷🏻♂️
ciarogeile@reddit
Have you never had a nice slice of toasted sourdough with butter melting through the holes? That is never becoming obsolete.
BlueGreenRed_678@reddit
Hipsters using vintage toasters.
sjbluebirds@reddit
Tasha Yar preferred Data's pale, light toast to Worf's Burnt Beyond Crisp.
Poguemahone3652@reddit
For toasting.
avocadonochaser@reddit
I mean we still make reference occasionally to things like the penny-farthing bike, coal engines, ringer washers, etc. and those things are from at least 100 years ago, right? Point being, even if the product referenced has been outdated for a while, we still use it at least to make a point.
Wackrobat@reddit
Woah now! Let’s not throw around artificial lifeform slurs!
CopenhagenVR@reddit
Just because it’s “old and obsolete” doesn’t mean people will just forget what a thing is. I have a vinyl collection and record player that I use, even though my phone can fit in my pocket and has an infinitely bigger music selection.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Vinyls are not that old. Lol.
CopenhagenVR@reddit
You like, completely missed the point I made
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Like, no I didn't.
baron_spaghetti@reddit
Perhaps the toaster has become a sort of “go to” in language for reference to a simple machine.
initiali5ed@reddit
Do you want some toast?
TreeHedger@reddit
Data is a toaster. He toasted Will ad Deanna at their wedding.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
LMAO. Hats off to you
Rattlecruiser@reddit
I mean on several occasions we see people romanticizing non-replicated food. Sisko for instance, who regularly cooks in his quarters; Eddington and his tomatoes. Which is pretty relatable if you consider what good it does to prepare your own meals as compared to buying them — the snacking, the trying out new stuff. The pride of finding new compositions.
And having freshly roasted bread is such a nice sensory experience; the warmth, the texture. The melting of what you put on top. Can't imagine those food traditionalists missing out on this.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
You can't toast bread without a toaster though
Rattlecruiser@reddit
yeah my point exactly. Traditionalists wouldn't miss out on that => toasters still exist.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Typo. You CAN toast bread without s toaster
agitatedandroid@reddit
You can buy coffee in these little pods and shove them in a machine then press a button and your coffee will pour hot into a cup. You can buy sachets of coffee that you dump into a mug of hot water then stir.
Or you can grind your recently roasted beans by hand every time you want coffee and then let it slowly drip into a carafe before pouring into a mug.
People will be using toasters for as long as it delights them to do so.
Kirk, Spock, and McCoy toasted marshmallows using a stick and a campfire.
Smooth_Tell2269@reddit
Wrong galaxy
TrueMinaplo@reddit
Time to play my favourite game: does Memory Alpha have an article on this?
loud game show 'ding ding ding' sound
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Toaster
HomsarWasRight@reddit
Yes! I knew that Kirk used a toaster at his Nexus house when making breakfast. Yes, that’s a generation before TNG, but if it lasted that long I think they probably hung around for a bit longer.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Well, shit! Dilema solved!
THANK YOU, CITIZEN!
TrueMinaplo@reddit
This is how I learned that Tom Paris had a toaster in his quarters, like a nerd
LOUDCO-HD@reddit
It is a very valid observation as I doubt the toaster would survive the 21st century, and definitely would not last 200 years into the future.
If we look at common items 200 years ago in our world, they have mostly faded from our modern day lexicon. No one is calling you a salt cellar or darning mushroom as a derogatory term.
Although there are many appliances that existed 200 years ago that we still use today, they are just modern updates, so maybe we just have a photon toaster or whatever the modern update is.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Hey, thank you for taking the time to see things from my POV.
Yes, my Riker-bashing and joking aside, you hit the nail on the head. One would think toasters would at least would be updated and not be a single purpose device like now. Dubois' derogatory tone is evident and so my question(s).
Thanks again
LOUDCO-HD@reddit
I still watch ST:TNG weekly, and have done so ever since the series went into syndication. I have seen every episode so many times I can quote the next lines in the script in many instances. I have read many books about gaffs, bloopers and continuity errors and have watched the episodes looking for them. I think I will start watching them while on the lookout for non-canon euphemisms.
ProblemLongjumping12@reddit
How else do they make bread into toast.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Put it to fire.
You don't cook much, huh? Lol
IKindaPlayEVE@reddit
Even if toasters were very rare novelties in the 24th century surely people would know what they are.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
How would they know? Self study. History class? Movies?
And don't call me Shirley.
Alien_Diceroller@reddit
One word, hipsters.
24th century hipsters all insist that artisanal toasted bread is better than replicated. They all have high end, hand made toasters with high accuracy timers and debate endlessly on the exact best setting for ambient temperature, bread type and gravity.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Someone else posted this and I lol.
Kirk was definitely a hipster in Generations then
Alien_Diceroller@reddit
Damn, I missed being the first with this joke 😂
Enchelion@reddit
Why is a dollar a buck, and why does the buck get passed? Many idioms are perfectly understandable completely divorced from the original meaning of the words involved.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Also, the dollar/buck reference has to do with deer skins and passing the buck has to do with poker. I think. An Army buddy told me once in Germany. Lemme check.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Yeah, if Google's reliable (!) then yeah. Dollar/buck has to do with trading buckskins and passing the buck is when you don't want to place a bet.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Idiomatic expressions are different from analogies but I get your point.
I'm more interested in the use of the word versus the use of the actual technology in the Star Trek universe.
Could the tech have survived as it is today? Why? Is it a nostalgic thing among humans on earth? Did toasters evolve and it keep the old name? Is toaster just used as derogatory term for robots and androids like in BSG? That sort of thing.
Neither_Tip_5291@reddit
The flesh is weak...
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Indeed it is.
LVDirtlawyer@reddit
Replicators are a great way to provide serviceable food in small spaces. With rank comes benefits, like more space. Some captains keep a saddle. Better captains keep full sets of cooking equipment and provide meals for their senior staff. So yeah, I'd expect that basic methods of preparing particular styles of food would still exist. Imagine that they are plasma-fueled bread fields but are just commonly called toasters, if that helps.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
This seems plausible. More sophisticated technology but keep the old name. I can see that.
tdp_equinox_2@reddit
I think it's pretty simple actually.
How does the existence of "toast" come to be, etymologically speaking?
For centuries, we have toasted our bread in toasters or toaster ovens. The existence of toast is directly tied to toasters. Anyone who is curious about the history of words would stumble on this handily.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
People toasted bread before toasters over fire and on stoves.
tdp_equinox_2@reddit
Did we call it toasting though? I'd consider that roasting, or in the oven double baking (which is a term that shows up in cook books).
Actually, I tried looking up the etymology of toast and it's a little messy because we use that word for multiple things.
Somewhere in the 12th century middle English we called it "tosten".
From nytimes:
"The word came to us through the Middle English “tosten” in the 12th century. The noun, meaning bread that had been browned with heat, and the verb, “to brown bread,” may have derived from the Old French toster, “to roast or grill,” or the Latin torrere, “to burn.”"
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
But the concept of putting bread to heat is not new. The word/device came much later.
Dubois' tone and intent are clear: to denigrate Data. My question or dilema is if toasters are really that common? And if so, how come? Because I would hope that if one were to want toast in the future, there'd be a much more advanced device that could do the same task, and not be a replicator and not be as rudimentary as a toaster we know today. Just like the stoves we have today are not wooden stoves of the 13th century. Do you catch my meaning?
ryguymcsly@reddit
I ain’t no frakkin’ toaster
theangrypragmatist@reddit
Maybe they still have Battlestar Galactica in that universe and she's a fan, like when Picard quotes Moby Dick or whatnot
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
I've seen this posted multiple times and the more I think about it, it seems plausible. No joke. This is because Dubois would be using toaster as a slur to denigrate Data to try and compel Riker (barf!) to represent Maddox.
If in this universe BSG was popular enough among Starfleet Americans, then yes, for sure. I like this.
jemm@reddit
Data: "Actually, I have a fully capable bread toasting port under my left armpit..."
Odd-Youth-452@reddit
"In the event of a water landing, I am programmed to function as a flotation device".
Swotboy2000@reddit
No toasters means no toast, no muffins, no teacakes, no buns, baps, baguettes or bagels, no croissants, no crumpets, no pancakes, no potato cakes and no hot-cross buns and definitely no smeggin' flapjacks!
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
You seriously think people didn't toast bread before toasters?
Swotboy2000@reddit
It’s cold in this thread, there’s no kind of atmosphere
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Well boo freaking hoo
Skirt_Thin@reddit
Well, they should just cancel the show. Can't recover from that one.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
It did end. Problem solved.
Clamstradamus@reddit
What's your beef with Riker?
r/shittydaystrom
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
I can't stand him, is all.
Whatever
epidipnis@reddit
Do they speak English in the 24th century? How do you know she actually said the word "toaster"?
She may have used the 24th century equivalent, and it was simply translated into our own idiom. We don't actually see the object she was referring to.
Also, if she was trying to portray Data as a simple piece of machinery, a present-day toaster is a perfect choice.
One-Technology-9050@reddit
There's evidence of traditional kitchens existing in that era still. Usually it's starships from TNG up that use replicators for food, and it seems like a military ration type thing (people complaining it can't get certain recipes right). People using pots and pans, kitchen knives etc seems to be a normal thing. So it's no surprise that a toaster would still exist. Why reinvent the wheel?
https://youtu.be/LvOaUatJfx4?si=CMCAzBKlaimSWNvc
LOUDCO-HD@reddit
Maybe she was using it as a slur because it was indeed obsolete technology, similarly if we were to compare something to an 8 track tape player or a phonograph.
I will rule summarily on my findings. Data is a record player.
BTW, what’s with the vitriol against Riker?
TheGameMastre@reddit
Anachronism for the sake of the audience, like whenever they mention great artists they name two classical and one spacey one (I.e.Shakespeare, Keats, and Kol'kur).
hmnahmna1@reddit
Bunch of frakking toasters
epidipnis@reddit
Exactly.
epidipnis@reddit
They were big BSG fans in Starfleet.
abibofile@reddit
I think it’s pretty well established that non-replicated food is regarded as a bit of a luxury, so people probably still use them. It’s probably akin to pulling out the French press on the weekend versus a Mr. Coffee when you’re rushing out the door to get to work on time.
strangway@reddit
Maybe toasted bread is too tricky for the replicator to get right. You ever try microwaving bread? What about bread on a stove? Nothing beats a toaster!
EmonOkari@reddit
Its a Smart Toaster.
Independent_Shoe3523@reddit
Mostly because people know what toasters are. Also, regular cooking gear is still in regular use on earth. I'm sure you see a toaster in the trek universe. At Kirk's lodge in the Nexus, he gets toast.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Yeah, but how much of it is nostalgic, affectation and how much of it is pragmatic.
A toaster has one, only one function. Toasting bread/bagel/etc. How pragmatic is that within the larger scope of the ST technological universe?
Outside of 3 characters who reference or have a toaster, you really think humans across the galaxy own and use toasters regularly? There's no other device that has absorbed that function, of toasting bread?
Independent_Shoe3523@reddit
Because it's just a show. They have to write a show that means something to a 1988 audience. They'll reference 20th century stuff or aphorisms to communicate with the audience.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
No doubt. But just for funsies:
"Data is a replicator."
"Data is a calculator."
"Data is an oven."
"Data is an automobile."
"Data is a clock."
Toasters are so cheap, unsophisticated that banks once gave them away if you opened an account.
One-Technology-9050@reddit
Isn't that the point? Toaster is a basic appliance, no chance of any sentience. She's saying that based on her knowledge, Data is simply a toaster, and will be disassembled unless they convince her otherwise
Tasty-Fox9030@reddit
The toaster is the culinary equivalent of, I don't know, not the wheel but like, the doorknob or something. There are toasters from the 1600s. I wouldn't be surprised if there were Egyptian toasters and those mfers invented bread.
RealLavender@reddit
Picard: "We'd like to submit a recording of Lieutenant Yar which displays Data is more than a toaster." JAG: "How did she submit this?" Picard: "I said OF. I didn't say from."
Geahk@reddit
I think it’s a deliberately dismissive anachronism
Plenty_Shine9530@reddit
I mean toasters are not even that popular today outside united states
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
That's my thinking. I'm not American so I'm baffled by this
WatchfulWarthog@reddit
Here pretty much every household has a toaster
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Where's here?
WatchfulWarthog@reddit
America
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
So you think it's still a thing among American Starfleet personnel?
WatchfulWarthog@reddit
Apparently so
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Well, shit! Okay then. One question, and this is 100 percent a joke because I find this an American peculiarity as well.
Do you think there are dozens of peanut butter brands and breakfast cereals as well in the 24th century?
WatchfulWarthog@reddit
Dozens? Hell, I hope there’s hundreds
You know how every German town practically has its own brewery? I hope it’s like that but for sugar-sweetened cereal
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Hell yeah! I'm like that but with carbonated drinks
Plenty_Shine9530@reddit
Right? I know what it is, I saw a toaster, they exist in stores here in my country, but they are not so popular to the point of a united earth level centuries later being the ultimate reference of a machine. Maybe a microwave? A vacuum cleaner. But toaster is so united statian to me lol.
Klopferator@reddit
Really? Toasters are pretty common in Germany.
Plenty_Shine9530@reddit
Interesting, I didn't know that! Maybe it is the US and Europe. I mean, I'm Brazilian and I know some people have them, but it's definitely not popular. We have those that press a sandwich more, but that's not exactly a toaster.
pamnfaniel@reddit
Aussies my… if there’s Vegemite in the 24th century, there’s toast to spread it on…
Plus,
you’re gonna have those die hard “replicators don’t do justice” folk
Just like you have those die hard “Microwave Martyrs” today
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
What about a stove/oven/toaster/microwave/replicator device in every home?
Does that sound plausible in the 24th century?
ProtossedSalad@reddit
What's your issue with Riker?
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
I can't stand him, is all.
Poncemastergeneral@reddit
If you want to grow food, your end up with bread.
If you have bread, your want toast.
I suppose you can grill it but I can’t almost guarantee British space people will have a kettle and a toaster just in case.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Lol. I can see the Brits not giving up their kettles.
Klopferator@reddit
Replicators use a lot of energy (in fact you'd need more than hydrogen bomb power), and people who like traditionally baked bread and who like to toast them would still use toasters.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
No other device that could toast bread and do other things in the kitchen?
StandWithSwearwolves@reddit
Toasters symbolise that resistance is not always futile.
McRando42@reddit
Rude. Data would never destroy the 13 colonies.
Marquar234@reddit
"So you're a waffle man?"
CaptainKrakrak@reddit
TheSnackWhisperer@reddit
Because of that one time that ensign did the thing with a phaser in shuttle bay 2. No more "toasting" stuff with phasers, ruined it for everybody.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
I believe you
TheSnackWhisperer@reddit
ensigns right? Can't live with them, can't blast them out an airlock without be courtmartialed.
amglasgow@reddit
Even if a replicator can supply perfectly toasted bread, people may still want to bake their own bread and toast it. While a toaster might not be in every home the way they are today (either a toaster or a toaster oven, if not both), they would be a known thing.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
So the concept would survive the technology? Kind of like the floppy disk icon for saving things, even though their obsolete and young people may not know what they are?
Fair enough.
amglasgow@reddit
No, I'm saying that enough people would still have toasters that they would be familiar with them, along with movies and television from older centuries.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
You don't think there's be better technology by then? For example, think about writing tools, transportation, etc. I'll concede understanding what's a toaster but to still have such a basic concept and not incorporate it into another piece of technology seems underwhelming. Even toaster ovens are better than toasters, for example.
amglasgow@reddit
Toaster ovens are better ovens but worse toasters than toasters.
There's not much better at the basic job of toasting slices of bread.
And toasters may be better at toasting but they'll still be toasters. Maybe they use plasma instead of electrical heat elements, and maybe they have a little computer in there to track how toasted the bread is getting instead of putting it down for just a fixed period of time. But it's still a toaster.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
All this... just to toast bread? C'mon, man! That's like a mobile that only makes phone calls.
Retinoid634@reddit
This woman’s hairdo doesn’t belong in the 24th century. I know it was the 80s/90s but the female hairstyle choices on the show were terrible.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Preach! And the men's weren't great either. See Riker for example.
kali-mah@reddit
What's your problem with riker?
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
I can't stand him, is all.
kali-mah@reddit
Oh k
HubrisSnifferBot@reddit
In one episode of TNG a character refers to an audio or video file as a "tape." In fact, I think they ask the computer to "play back the tape" or something to that effect.
We still relied on analog media at the end of TNG's run, but that anachronism always breaks me out of the narrative.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
You bring up another important point about anachronism in the writing, and that is that it brings you out of the ST world, it kinda ruins the magic. When you're willing to suspend your disbelief it sucks to be brought back to reality because of things like this.
Radical_Warren@reddit
Johnsendall@reddit
You can and I bet the technology advanced far enough that you can pause the toast.
https://i.redd.it/0vuoq2cmhd9f1.gif
Altruistic-Potatoes@reddit
Media literacy intelligence is knowing that toasters, in their modern form, probably aren't still a thing in the 24th century.
Media literacy wisdom is knowing they were using 'toaster' for the benefit of the audience.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
No doubt. But just for funsies:
"Data is a replicator."
"Data is a calculator."
"Data is an oven."
"Data is an automobile."
"Data is a clock."
Toasters are so cheap, unsophisticated that banks once gave them away if you opened an account.
Zorpfield@reddit
They had this thing called screensavers in TNG.
dnkroz3d@reddit
I don't know if there were any toasters in that century, but in this one my toaster needs that experimental refit she mentioned.
A-Druid-Life@reddit
Sometimes. 'Ya just gotta go authentic ancient methood of toasting bread..........makes that vegemite sandwich taste so much better.
So replicate a toaster from the earlier half of the 20th century and do it right or Mr. Homn gonna come and smack you around a little.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Mmmm... Vegemite
SixButterflies@reddit
We live in 2025, and petards have not been used since the 1600s, yet people still get colloquially hoisted by them.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
The name changed, not the concept
trer24@reddit
Well we know that several members of the crew are interested in "old" things, such as when Picard talked about how he used to play with boats in bottles as a boy or when Geordi built a scale model of the HMS Victory in Engineering. Data is interested in Sherlock Holmes and Troi is fascinated by the "Ancient West". In Star Trek Voyager, we see that Tom Paris has an interest in old gasoline-powered cars and B'lanna Torres give him a TV so he can watch old TV shows (complete with remote control).
All that to say, I'd say many humans/lifeforms from the 24th century were well-cultured and loved old technology like toasters.
NBizzle@reddit
This always made no sense to me. It’d be like a bunch of people today being obsessed with things from the past; like swords and armor and riding horses. Preposterous…
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
What are they called though? Nomenclature is at the crux of the argument. But great sarcasm
Specialist-Leek-6927@reddit
Re-enactors.
QualifiedApathetic@reddit
History buffs, or if they go so far as to put on costumes and put on a show no one's watching, LARPers.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
"Tonight, the Battle of the Somme! Then, AVOCADO TOAST!"
Boetheus@reddit
D&D players
Alpham3000@reddit
Leave my Protogens alone. >W<
Present_Ad6723@reddit
There are always going to be some people that like more basic technology. I own a couple of tube radios, and woodworking tools that are 200 years old. I know what a typewriter is, and a turn table, and an adze. Stuff just gets into culture sometimes. It’s been 4000 years, but umbrellas are still umbrellas
Mono_Morphs@reddit
Dude we have people like hipsters brewing their own water from scratch. Who knows what hipsters with replicators around would be up to - they would undoubtedly DENOUNCE the technology and try to overthrow control over fru fru espresso supplies
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
LMAO. Stop it!
Mono_Morphs@reddit
lol - I should mention I enjoy a good avocado toast
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Nothing wrong with that. But why that name? I dunno... Hahaha
Tedfufu@reddit
Plenty of people like to cook their own food in the future.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Toasting bread can be done without a toaster
GroundedSatellite@reddit
People still cooked. O'Brien's mother handled and cooked real meat.
justice-for-tuvix@reddit
She touched it and cut it??
RetroGamer87@reddit
Klingons still hunt, even when they have replicators.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
How did she toast bread?
justice-for-tuvix@reddit
With a Data
Unlikely_Afternoon94@reddit
All they do on that starship is consume classic media. Shakespeare, Keates, Beethoven. They probably also spend hours in the simulator walking through Ikea.
HyrinShratu@reddit
She's using an old racial slur
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
That's messed up! Lol
Joe3Eagles@reddit
Actual toasters survived at least to Kirk's time, as shown in the Generations kitchen scene in Kirk's version of the Nexus.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
This is true. Others pointed out that Janeway and Paris also referenced toasters.
But are they common or just an American Starfleet affectation?
BlueAndYellowTowels@reddit
Do you know what an Anvil is? I do and I’m not some medieval nerd. They’re very old. They were invented in 6000 BC and we still use them today in niche areas.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
We still use anvils
BlueAndYellowTowels@reddit
That’s my point. Someone might still use a toaster. I would wager people in the TNG era probably still enjoy cooking “the old way”.
ABC_Dildos_Inc@reddit
It's a figure of speech.
We do it all the time.
No one uses petards anymore.
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
You're proving my point.
I'm asking/saying "no one uses toasters anymore".
Except, apparently, Americans in Starfleet.
Evening-Cold-4547@reddit
To cook bread
wrosmer@reddit
Doesn't kirk use a toaster in the nexus in generations?
Robman0908@reddit
Felt more like Shatner than Kirk in those scenes, but yes.
No-Explanation-220@reddit
You can run Doom 1 on a toaster. Data runs Doom Eternal on 1 million fps combos like he's playing Dom Jot
laker9903@reddit
Toast, wheat, toasted with the shape of Jesus burned in, cut into triangles
Apprehensive-Boot756@reddit
They were Cylon
BaronNeutron@reddit
I know what an abacus is
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Do you know how to use it?
Done_With_That_One@reddit
I thought so. Thanks for confirming.
CostoLovesUScro@reddit
BSG Crossover ahead of its time.
DarthZoon_420@reddit
Unless it was used in the original show
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I haven't gotten around to the bsg sub yet. Lol
ThorsMeasuringTape@reddit
Perhaps we are hearing the historical documents through a universal translator intended to put the show in a vernacular that we would understand.
in5ult080t@reddit
That was just the universal translator helping you to understand her comparison
Aezetyr@reddit
Sometimes a joke is just a joke.
Nof-z@reddit
That phot reminds me STRONGLY of my 6th grade English teacher…. Quote and all….
No-Scallion-2998@reddit (OP)
Sorry about my typos y'all