how are people still doing this “free stuff” meme? he’s explained multiple times he’s raising taxes on anyone making over $1M a year. how is that not an acknowledgment it’s not free?
No one is saying the his programs are literally free to create, no one. What they are saying is that the people who voted for him literally did so on the promise of free stuff for them. Do you get it now?
how are they freebies? you pay taxes for almost all of these, except some states don't tax food. Roads are often managed by taxes on gasoline, and public education and local services, are based off property taxes
Closeted Republican bootlickers LOVE to call themselves Libertarian with no accuracy whatsoever... the kind of people who fly Gadsden flags and thin blue line flags at the same time
Closeted Democrat apologist LOVE to call themselves Libertarians with zero self-awareness... the kind of people who wave black-and-red flags while demanding government handouts, tax hikes, and praising socialism (the opposite of libertarianism)
Libertarian socialism is an oxymoron. The core tenet of libertarianism is private property beginning with the recognition of ownership of self and your own body and extending to ownership of that which is self-acquired and self-produced with that body.
Socialism and communism deny private property rights, and the right of ownership of what is self-acquired and self-produced.
This means they deny the ownership of self, and someone who does not own themselves is a slave.
Socialism and communism are totally incompatible with libertarianism, and are nothing more than forms of chattel slavery dressed up in pretty words to serve collective masters. Wealth robbery by the collective is just as immoral and unjust as much being robbed at gunpoint by an individual.
What’s the argument here? The Robinhood argument socialists make is that universal healthcare and stuff like it would be “free”. Everyone knows the money comes from somewhere (tax hikes). This has nothing to do with Gadsden or thin blue line flags. And honestly the whole libertarian party is slightly libertarian leftists who read Cato and Reason or slightly libertarian republicans reading Mises.
It’s an overplayed joke but it’s essentially how it plays out every time. Taking from the millionaires to give to the majority makes it free for the majority. If someone pays for your dinner it was free to you.
"take" is a bit of stretch. These rich people use loopholes to not pay their taxes. This is redirecting their tax money to make the city more efficient.
Any tax on the rich is just reflected on the consumer, it's politicians using our own wealth and telling us it someone else. "Theoretically" speaking let's say I'm an evil business man and you jack up my taxes, I'll just raise my salary and fire workers, and/or increase the price of my product. I've now pushed that tax onto the consumers.
Second, the government having more money doesn't make them more "efficient", because the government is efficient in the first place, let's say you wanna fix a road, you could pay a crew directly to fix it, or you could pay for the IRS agent doing your taxes, the cop that'll arrest if you don't pay taxes, the wages of people looking for what crew will do it cheapest, and the crew to fix it.
Either way it's our money getting taken, by these taxes, rich or poor.
The amount mamdani proposes is literally the same rate as NJ and other states. If y'all make more than $1 million a year you will get taxed and extra 2 percent. If an evil rich person is trying to off load that rounding error of a number then it shows the problem we have is with the system anyway.
This isn’t a brain rot post. Overplayed? Sure. But taxing more to provide something is in essence advertising it as free. As in, the liberals of NYC wouldn’t be footing the bill.
lol the only time i have ever participated in a US election was voting for Ron Paul in ‘12. how many times have you abandoned every libertarian ideal to suck the dick of some “lesser of two evils”? the vast majority of you people trying to dunk on me are just republicans who larp as libertarians in between elections.
He's also going to raise the corporate tax from seven percent to eleven on companies that do business in new york city. But this guy keeps using the word free when talking about child care and busses. And then i explain to fellow nyers that its not actually free. People here are dumb
If anything the Left always dismisses their failures by saying they weren't extreme or authoritarian enough.
Increase taxes and the wealthy and middle-class flee? Well, there should be laws that prevent them from doing that or there should be exit takes.
Jack up excise taxes to the point where black market alternatives (which already have a massive markup) are less than a quarter of the cost of the goods bought legally? Well, clearly need to raise those taxes further and use them to combat contraband/bootleg goods.
Again, you're assuming the system you are making will be materially better. You keep saying "better", which is your intention, but what you mean is "different".
fair point, I've always been a believer that change always lead to net positives in the world. Look at any major technology, they introduced so much danger and new problems but we can't say we don't regret them
that word does not mean wat u think it means, it's an actual ideology that was hijacked into becoming something it's not my ppl who r 2 busy posting on imageboards to actually read (including /lit/.) u should read land n ccru (and deleuze), u will realize that wat ur saying in this post is not only a paradox but completely preposterous.
BUT, He is the only candidate talking about economics, about domestic NYC issues, about the problems the Libertatians, republicans and democrats claim to want to solve. The republicans and libertarians are going to fail so hard as long as they are focused on non local issues. The wars, the foreign aid, never actually implementing the solutions for the cost of living for every day American people.
Trump: I will end the war in Ukraine before I even get inaugurated, I mean I will end it in 24 hrs, actually check back in a timeframe that makes most people forget... I was being sarcastic
He won because he was the only one who denounced Israel. Americans are tired of the scummy politicians over and over, both sides worried about uplifting the same foreign entities.
r/Libertarian once again bending over backwards to defend literal socialism.
Libertarianism and Socialism ARE COMPLETELY INCOMPATIBLE.
If you subscribe to the ideas of "paying their fair share"/"tax the rich"/"raise taxes for landowners"/"it's not free, we make duh rich pay for it under threat of death"
Wait until you hear about libertarian socialism. If we’re gonna have a state, we can’t js let it bailout big business and rich jackasses like Jeff Bezos, while it fucks over all our small businesses and funnels our tax money to Israel.
I agree with those points, but regular libertarian policy and ~actual~ capitalism would take care of those problems. Socialism and libertarianism are diametrically opposed.
Libertarian socialism is an oxymoron. The core tenet of libertarianism is private property beginning with the recognition of ownership of self and your own body and extending to ownership of that which is self-acquired and self-produced with that body.
Socialism and communism deny private property rights, and the right of ownership of what is self-acquired and self-produced.
This means they deny the ownership of self, and someone who does not own themselves is a slave.
Socialism and communism are totally incompatible with libertarianism, and are nothing more than forms of chattel slavery dressed up in pretty words to serve collective masters. Wealth robbery by the collective is just as immoral and unjust as much being robbed at gunpoint by an individual.
I disagree. I believe that if there’s a free market, self-ownership, and room for cottage industries, then a society is libertarian. Private ownership of capital or otherwise.
The bot is espousing right libertarianism, like your flair says. I guess, that’s what this sub is actually for, so I imagine all these Dem apologists must be kind of annoying.
No, you can't say that. Libertarian socialism is the best form of Libertarianism there is! We the socialists are on your side, and we are here to bring you help through the government! You see, when the government taxes the wealthy, that means more money for you and your family! We will make the rich pay their fair share, then we'll make you richer! Don't you understand, we will make you richer! Libertarianism is best led by Bernie Sanders, a man who will give you more money through the state, and more money means more liberty!
Libertarians vote, Libertarians vote. Go vote, go vote. Bernie here I come! Libertarians vote! Libertarians vote! Go vote, go vote Sanders gets our vote! Bernie for President, he is a genuine man. Triumphs over fascism, and does the best he can! Libertarians vote, Libertarians vote. Go vote, go vote, Bernie gets our vote! Trump is fascist, and very racist too!
Beep boop I am a bot, it's all I got. Now off I go, where may I troll!
Libertarian socialism is an oxymoron. The core tenet of libertarianism is private property beginning with the recognition of ownership of self and your own body and extending to ownership of that which is self-acquired and self-produced with that body.
Socialism and communism deny private property rights, and the right of ownership of what is self-acquired and self-produced.
This means they deny the ownership of self, and someone who does not own themselves is a slave.
Socialism and communism are totally incompatible with libertarianism, and are nothing more than forms of chattel slavery dressed up in pretty words to serve collective masters. Wealth robbery by the collective is just as immoral and unjust as much being robbed at gunpoint by an individual.
It's not free stuff tho ... Mamdani's has clearly articulated where the funding is coming from. I am anti paying taxes but I'm also anti mega rich people NOT paying taxes.
C’mon, don’t play semantical games. You know what they mean.
Playing that game, you could say: well actually, individuals don’t pay taxes, their employers do; landlords don’t pay the mortgage, tenants do; etc. and so forth.
The specific obligations, liabilities, and entitlements of various agents across the chain of ownership, logistics, and financial flows each come with unique features.
Muddying the distinctions into nihilistic irrelevancy avoids critical thinking, pasted over through nonsensical high-minded contrarianism.
Obviously: corporations do pay taxes – not only in the sense that, yes there’s literal corporate income taxes on profits, but also to your specific point: no, corporations aren’t always able to pass costs along to consumers.
Frequently there are contractions in profit margins due to, say, tariffs, as they’re not always to pass along costs to consumers – profits / prices are often constrained by end-consumer demand, even under monopoly conditions.
Taxes for a corporation are a business expense. Like ALL other business expenses, they are rolled into the cost of making a product or providing a service. The customer pays 100% of a corporations business expenses - corporate taxes included. If the corporation didn't roll business expenses into the cost of its product, the corporation would end up in bankruptcy.
Using your example; the landlord /tenant relationship. If rent charged to the tenant didn't cover the mortgage and expenses of owning and maintaining a property, the property would eventually end up in foreclosure. Landlords buy and rent property in order to make a profit. When the expenses outweigh the incoming cash flow, the landlord has 3 options: raise the rent, sell the property, or let the property go into foreclosure.
So yes, the tenants do pay the mortgage. The tenants also pay the property taxes and the business taxes associated with the property they are renting.
The point was that since an employer plays 100% of an individuals payroll income, the individual has never paid income tax or any other bill by this logic? Where the money to pay a debt comes from does not change that you are paying a debt. Where the business rolls up all their expenses and tries to make more money than that, an individual does the exact same thing when they try to sell their labor for more than the bills they have to pay.
The cost of labor, including the taxes individual employees pay, is a business expense and is ultimately paid for by the consumer - higher income taxes on employees = higher cost for consumer goods and services.
Higher taxes of any kind cause inflation. Most tax increases are subtle and go unnoticed, but every single one causes inflation - even if it is to a slight degree.
These are all just different links in a chain of trading though. Can you not see the equivalency between a business selling a product and an individual selling their labor? Say that the business is a sole proprietorship with one employee. That proprietor has a contract to buy the labor of that employee for the agreed wage/salary. A subscription service that can be canceled by either party. That your labor is your own product to trade by right of self-ownership is basic Libertarian ideology.
I agree, but the wealthy do not pay taxes. I do and am unable to avoid it like the wealthy are. So either they pay and we ALL get free things or no one pays at all. Since we are leagues away from a taxless society, I am in favor of the wealthy paying up.
The top one percent in the nation account for 26% of the nation's income, but pay 46% of federal taxes. I'm sure the talking box told you to think that they pay next to nothing, but that's the truth of the matter.
Top 1% pay over 40% of all federal income, the bottom 50% which is anyone below 40K, paid 2%. So I have no idea where you got the fact they don't pay taxes.
My guy, have you even researched who pays the most taxes?
The top 10 percent of income earners pay more than 60 percent of all federal taxes and 72 percent of income taxes, shares that have been increasing over time.
The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all federal income taxes.
This is obviously a plant but I’ll reply for anyone unfortunate enough to be following this thread. The people who voted for him did so on the promise of free stuff, obviously he gets it where every other socialist gets money, they start at the top and work their way to the bottom.
I disagree that people voted on the premise of free stuff. People got behind him because he's refreshing and doesn't care about Israel. The allure of free buses is nice, but in a city where the subway reigns, it hardly means much. People liked his sound bites and that he could stand face against established politicians and make them look so phony.
There’s nothing authentic about Mamdani. His policies will be final nail in NYC’s coffin. “Violence is a construct”? the guy has the political sensibilities of a child. If Godzilla was running against him on a platform of rampaging through the city once a year it would still be a better choice.
Why be so dramatic?? Is he that much worse than Cuomo or Eric Adams?? We don't know so why not give him the decency of a shot. The people ranked him and they want him. If NYC goes down burning in socialist flames so be it. But until then no one has any right to fear monger.
More exaggerating for comedic effect. But yes, he is that much worse and I know that sounds like the worst game of “would you rather” ever. He on record with enough terrible political takes that I have no good reason to expect anything different from every other time someone with same got into power.
I'm not disagreeing with your take, but I do feel like the alternative is the super wealthy and their organizations funding politicians for favors. So it's take form the rich minority to give to the majority, or let the rich minority pay for what is in their best interest, neither feels right, but the latter feels worse the older I get.
Absolutely. Tax the rich and make them pay their fair share. If not, remove income taxes for everyone. A billionaire hoarding wealth and on a never ending path to obtain and hoard more isn’t great for the economy if they aren’t paying taxes fairly.
There's also no "paying your fair share of taxes." There's nothing fair about income taxes. I make more money, so I pay more in taxes = unfair. I make less money, do I pay less in taxes = unfair. That unfairness also really comes out when other people's taxes go to other people.
The government does not have a right to your earnings from labor. Income tax needs to go altogether and government bloat needs to be slashed.
it really is unfunny trash for the most part. if you are afraid of words I can try to say it other, much more long-winded ways. it's an anti-libertarian, anti-conservative, anti-constitutional, anti-free speech, pro-progressive, pro-critical race theory, pro-child mutilation, pro-hamas cesspool of modern liberal douchebags who couldn't meme their way out of a paper bag. or, I could just say 'woke', and it would be simpler.
Not saying I support this guy, but that’s literally the same thing Trump did saying “groceries” was a magic word as literally everything has skyrocketed in price due to tariffs
Reddit is such a leftist echo chamber psyop that even the libertarian subs don’t have anyone commenting libertarian shit and yall are downvoting anything remotely libertarian
It makes some sense for the Libertarian subreddit, given that everyone got free speech here and thus Libertarians will be less represented in a sea of leftists, conservatives and Libertarian Catholics. But what's crazier is that even the strict subs have left-wing brigading. If you want to see how left-wing Reddit is, go see the conservative subreddit. Even with huge regulations on speech, the conservative subreddit always has the disagreeing "conservatives" get the most upvotes. Do you think it is the real conservatives who are behind that, or is it someone else?
I generally was a part of that sub for about 2 years and I often got into it with other conservatives over what I thought to be common sense and not always toeing said conservative line. Eventually I was banned for being too liberal and others who voiced right wing objections to Trump or other conservative viewpoints were met with bans and flair removals.
It'll be a problem when it hits the fan so bad they start moving out quicker than they are. Then they'll be in your city, voting for the same crap that ruined theirs, and your problem.
This kind of thinking reminds me of this parable….(I did not author this);
The Dinner Roll ..
Once upon a time I was invited to the White House for a private dinner with the President.
I am a respected businessman, with a factory that produces memory chips for computers and portable electronics.
There was some talk that my industry was being scrutinized by the administration, but I paid it no mind. I live in a FREE country. There's nothing that the government can do to me if I've broken no laws. My wealth was EARNED honestly, and an invitation to dinner with an American President is an honor.
I checked my coat, was greeted by the Chief of Staff, and joined the President in a yellow dining room.
We sat across from each other at a table draped in white linen. The Great Seal was embossed on the china. Uniformed staff served our dinner.
The meal was served, and I was startled when my waiter suddenly reached out, plucked a dinner roll off my plate and began nibbling it as he walked back to the kitchen..
"Sorry 'bout that," said the President. "Andrew is very hungry."
"I don't appreciate...." I began, but as I looked into the calm brown eyes across from me, I felt immediately guilty and petty. It was just a dinner roll. "Of course," I concluded, and reached for my glass.
Before I could, however, another waiter reached forward, took the glass away and swallowed the wine in a single gulp. "And his brother, Eric, is very thirsty," said the President.
I didn't say anything. The President is testing my compassion, I thought. I withheld my comments and decided to play along. I don't want to seem unkind..
My plate was whisked away before I had tasted a bite.
"Eric's children are also quite hungry."
With a lurch, I crashed to the floor. My chair had been pulled out from under me.
I stood, brushing myself off angrily, and watched as it was carried from the room.
And their grandmother can't stand for long."
I excused myself, smiling outwardly, but inside feeling like a fool. Obviously I had been invited to the White House to be sport for some game. I reached for my coat, to find that it had been taken..
I turned back to the President.
"Their grandfather doesn't like the cold."
I wanted to shout, "that was my coat!" But again, I looked at the placid smiling face of my host and decided I was being a poor sport. I spread my hands helplessly and chuckled.
Then I felt my hip pocket and realized my wallet was gone. I excused myself and walked to a phone on an elegant side table.
I learned shortly that my credit cards had been maxed out, my bank accounts emptied, my retirement and equity portfolios had vanished, and my wife had been thrown out of our home.
Apparently, the waiters and their families were moving in. The President hadn't moved or spoken as I learned all this, but finally I lowered the phone into its cradle and turned to face him.
"Andrew's whole family has made bad financial decisions. They haven't planned for retirement and they need a house. They recently defaulted on a subprime mortgage. I told them they could have your home. They need it more than you do."
My hands were shaking. I felt faint I stumbled back to the table and knelt on the floor.
The President cheerfully cut his meat, ate his steak, and drank his wine. I lowered my eyes and stared at the small grey circles on the tablecloth that were water drops.
"By the way," he added, "I have just signed an Executive Order nationalizing your factories.
I'm firing you as head of your business. I'll be operating the firm now for the benefit of all mankind.
There's a whole bunch of Erics and Andrews out there and they can't come to you for jobs groveling like beggars...we need to spread YOUR wealth around..."
I looked up. The President dropped his spoon into the empty ramekin which had been his crème Brule.
He drained the last drops of his wine. As the table was cleared, he lit a cigarette and leaned back in his chair.
He stared at me. I clung to the edge of the table as if it were a ledge and I were a man hanging over an abyss.
I thought of the years behind me, of the life I had lived. The life I had earned with a lifetime of work, risk and struggle.
Why was I punished? How had I allowed it to be taken? What game had I played and lost? I looked across the table and noticed with some surprise that there was no game board between us.
What had I done wrong?
As if answering the unspoken thought, the President suddenly cocked his head, locked his empty eyes to mine, and bared a million teeth, chuckling wryly as he folded his hands.
"You should have stopped me at the dinner roll," he said.
Bottom line, just because they are not grabbing your “roll” this time, doesn’t mean you are not next…
This is just the same joke my boomer dad made around the Bush era we don’t expect them to do anything different. Don’t have anything new you can add???
gjbadt@reddit
how are people still doing this “free stuff” meme? he’s explained multiple times he’s raising taxes on anyone making over $1M a year. how is that not an acknowledgment it’s not free?
winkman@reddit
Ah, the ol "we'll raise taxes on people who will TOTALLY not leave" play.
Let's see if it works out this time!
I bet it will.
shelbzaazaz@reddit
Y'all say this dumb shit despite that the majority of high earners do not leave CA or NY despite high tax rate lmfao
winkman@reddit
Enough do to throw these dumb calculations way off.
Every. Single. Time.
anarchyusa@reddit
No one is saying the his programs are literally free to create, no one. What they are saying is that the people who voted for him literally did so on the promise of free stuff for them. Do you get it now?
Baustin1345@reddit
Agreed the majority population receives freebies while the minority pays for it
Tularemia@reddit
Imagine considering roads, public education, fire departments, and money for food and infant formula “freebies”.
BastiatF@reddit
They literally are. You may consider them justified but they are freebies.
Time193@reddit
how are they freebies? you pay taxes for almost all of these, except some states don't tax food. Roads are often managed by taxes on gasoline, and public education and local services, are based off property taxes
BastiatF@reddit
Not everybody pays for them. The majority gets way more than they pay in taxes.
blobofat@reddit
And the minority makes profoundly more in an hour than many make in a year what is your point?
BastiatF@reddit
Maybe reading the original comment I was replying to would help...
jimmietwotanks26@reddit
It is a bit of a Baby’s My First Libertarian post
PedanticPendant@reddit
Closeted Republican bootlickers LOVE to call themselves Libertarian with no accuracy whatsoever... the kind of people who fly Gadsden flags and thin blue line flags at the same time
Time193@reddit
Closeted Democrat apologist LOVE to call themselves Libertarians with zero self-awareness... the kind of people who wave black-and-red flags while demanding government handouts, tax hikes, and praising socialism (the opposite of libertarianism)
blobofat@reddit
Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia https://share.google/IyDyjlxavHh3sm1JP
AutoModerator@reddit
Libertarian socialism is an oxymoron. The core tenet of libertarianism is private property beginning with the recognition of ownership of self and your own body and extending to ownership of that which is self-acquired and self-produced with that body.
Socialism and communism deny private property rights, and the right of ownership of what is self-acquired and self-produced.
This means they deny the ownership of self, and someone who does not own themselves is a slave.
Socialism and communism are totally incompatible with libertarianism, and are nothing more than forms of chattel slavery dressed up in pretty words to serve collective masters. Wealth robbery by the collective is just as immoral and unjust as much being robbed at gunpoint by an individual.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
OdinThePirate@reddit
And secretly enjoy ICE raids.
Diligent_Divide_3364@reddit
What’s the argument here? The Robinhood argument socialists make is that universal healthcare and stuff like it would be “free”. Everyone knows the money comes from somewhere (tax hikes). This has nothing to do with Gadsden or thin blue line flags. And honestly the whole libertarian party is slightly libertarian leftists who read Cato and Reason or slightly libertarian republicans reading Mises.
Diligent_Divide_3364@reddit
It’s an overplayed joke but it’s essentially how it plays out every time. Taking from the millionaires to give to the majority makes it free for the majority. If someone pays for your dinner it was free to you.
Asangkt358@reddit
"Hey, vote for me and I'll take money from rich people in order to give you free stuff."
lavender711@reddit
"take" is a bit of stretch. These rich people use loopholes to not pay their taxes. This is redirecting their tax money to make the city more efficient.
chernz94@reddit
Let me guess... If you were rich you'd donate all your money and help everyone?
Time193@reddit
Any tax on the rich is just reflected on the consumer, it's politicians using our own wealth and telling us it someone else. "Theoretically" speaking let's say I'm an evil business man and you jack up my taxes, I'll just raise my salary and fire workers, and/or increase the price of my product. I've now pushed that tax onto the consumers.
Second, the government having more money doesn't make them more "efficient", because the government is efficient in the first place, let's say you wanna fix a road, you could pay a crew directly to fix it, or you could pay for the IRS agent doing your taxes, the cop that'll arrest if you don't pay taxes, the wages of people looking for what crew will do it cheapest, and the crew to fix it.
Either way it's our money getting taken, by these taxes, rich or poor.
lavender711@reddit
The amount mamdani proposes is literally the same rate as NJ and other states. If y'all make more than $1 million a year you will get taxed and extra 2 percent. If an evil rich person is trying to off load that rounding error of a number then it shows the problem we have is with the system anyway.
Diligent_Divide_3364@reddit
This isn’t a brain rot post. Overplayed? Sure. But taxing more to provide something is in essence advertising it as free. As in, the liberals of NYC wouldn’t be footing the bill.
lavender711@reddit
The liberals who make 1 million dollars or more will be footing the bill.
_up_and_atom@reddit
The liberals who will eventually leave will be footing the.. oh wait
_up_and_atom@reddit
The guy literally said he'll make buses "fast and FREE" 🤦♂️
I like how you said "we" like you're on the libertarian side and not going to bat for these dumbass Bernie-lite ideas.
gjbadt@reddit
lol the only time i have ever participated in a US election was voting for Ron Paul in ‘12. how many times have you abandoned every libertarian ideal to suck the dick of some “lesser of two evils”? the vast majority of you people trying to dunk on me are just republicans who larp as libertarians in between elections.
that_matt_kaplan@reddit
He's also going to raise the corporate tax from seven percent to eleven on companies that do business in new york city. But this guy keeps using the word free when talking about child care and busses. And then i explain to fellow nyers that its not actually free. People here are dumb
Fucker_Of_Destiny@reddit
The problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other people’s money
BastiatF@reddit
It's free for 99.9% of people. Venezuela tried government run grocery stores. Now they kill zoo animals for food.
instigator1331@reddit
Because that means the people it’s really going to be helping won’t ever pay for it making it “free”
Baustin1345@reddit
Free to the populous. And to be fair the government doesn't have to balance their budget....
PM_ME_DNA@reddit
That makes it actually worse but we all know their source
Original-Document-82@reddit
I'm a strong libertarian accelerationist, so let's let the socialists have their fun, if it works great if not we can rebuild with a better system
Peking-Cuck@reddit
The problem with accelerationism is the false assumption that you know what you are accelerating towards, and that speeding up is correct.
Original-Document-82@reddit
you can't make a better system without accepting the risk that the process to reach that will be more difficult than what you have
LibertatemAdvocatus@reddit
I don't know.
If anything the Left always dismisses their failures by saying they weren't extreme or authoritarian enough.
Increase taxes and the wealthy and middle-class flee? Well, there should be laws that prevent them from doing that or there should be exit takes.
Jack up excise taxes to the point where black market alternatives (which already have a massive markup) are less than a quarter of the cost of the goods bought legally? Well, clearly need to raise those taxes further and use them to combat contraband/bootleg goods.
Peking-Cuck@reddit
Again, you're assuming the system you are making will be materially better. You keep saying "better", which is your intention, but what you mean is "different".
Original-Document-82@reddit
fair point, I've always been a believer that change always lead to net positives in the world. Look at any major technology, they introduced so much danger and new problems but we can't say we don't regret them
Peking-Cuck@reddit
You really can't think of a single change that was a net negative for the world?
ashpr0ulx@reddit
this is sorta how i feel. i’m excited to watch the experiment unfold very far away from me. maybe we’ll learn something.
KillerQueen27_s@reddit
same, I’m gonna be eating popcorn watching nyc become a soviet slum
blobofat@reddit
So, not the same at all
ShacoinaBox@reddit
that word does not mean wat u think it means, it's an actual ideology that was hijacked into becoming something it's not my ppl who r 2 busy posting on imageboards to actually read (including /lit/.) u should read land n ccru (and deleuze), u will realize that wat ur saying in this post is not only a paradox but completely preposterous.
tickera@reddit
Huh, i thought this was the libertarian subreddit. I somehow ended up in r/socialism.
ronpaulclone@reddit
Horrible ideas. Horrible horrible horrible.
BUT, He is the only candidate talking about economics, about domestic NYC issues, about the problems the Libertatians, republicans and democrats claim to want to solve. The republicans and libertarians are going to fail so hard as long as they are focused on non local issues. The wars, the foreign aid, never actually implementing the solutions for the cost of living for every day American people.
JonnyDoeDoe@reddit
Not much of what he's promising will come to fruition...
CharacterEgg2406@reddit
The whole Eat the Rich movement has gone a little far.
r0nson@reddit
much easier to eat the middle class and poor
r0nson@reddit
Trump: I will end the war in Ukraine before I even get inaugurated, I mean I will end it in 24 hrs, actually check back in a timeframe that makes most people forget... I was being sarcastic
codru-critter@reddit
He won because he was the only one who denounced Israel. Americans are tired of the scummy politicians over and over, both sides worried about uplifting the same foreign entities.
brightbonewhite@reddit
So what, you prefer CUOMO? Cmon now…
chernz94@reddit
How about none? Lol
that_matt_kaplan@reddit
Jim walden is running independent
MurfMan11@reddit
The fact that Cuomo had the audacity to run again and to make it as far and close as he did is mind boggling to me. Dude is absolute scum.
LikelySoutherner@reddit
They are not stupid. They are tired of being lied to and grifted by legacy Dems
elganador0@reddit
madness
Avtamatic@reddit
r/Libertarian once again bending over backwards to defend literal socialism.
Libertarianism and Socialism ARE COMPLETELY INCOMPATIBLE.
If you subscribe to the ideas of "paying their fair share"/"tax the rich"/"raise taxes for landowners"/"it's not free, we make duh rich pay for it under threat of death"
THEN YOU ARE NOT LIBERTARIAN. YOU ARE A LEFTIST.
8-BitTakeout@reddit
Wait until you hear about libertarian socialism. If we’re gonna have a state, we can’t js let it bailout big business and rich jackasses like Jeff Bezos, while it fucks over all our small businesses and funnels our tax money to Israel.
Diligent_Divide_3364@reddit
I agree with those points, but regular libertarian policy and ~actual~ capitalism would take care of those problems. Socialism and libertarianism are diametrically opposed.
AutoModerator@reddit
Libertarian socialism is an oxymoron. The core tenet of libertarianism is private property beginning with the recognition of ownership of self and your own body and extending to ownership of that which is self-acquired and self-produced with that body.
Socialism and communism deny private property rights, and the right of ownership of what is self-acquired and self-produced.
This means they deny the ownership of self, and someone who does not own themselves is a slave.
Socialism and communism are totally incompatible with libertarianism, and are nothing more than forms of chattel slavery dressed up in pretty words to serve collective masters. Wealth robbery by the collective is just as immoral and unjust as much being robbed at gunpoint by an individual.
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JokersWyld@reddit
Good bot.
8-BitTakeout@reddit
I disagree. I believe that if there’s a free market, self-ownership, and room for cottage industries, then a society is libertarian. Private ownership of capital or otherwise. The bot is espousing right libertarianism, like your flair says. I guess, that’s what this sub is actually for, so I imagine all these Dem apologists must be kind of annoying.
ALargeClam1@reddit
You disagree because you are stupid.
HonkyTonkBluesYEAH@reddit
No, you can't say that. Libertarian socialism is the best form of Libertarianism there is! We the socialists are on your side, and we are here to bring you help through the government! You see, when the government taxes the wealthy, that means more money for you and your family! We will make the rich pay their fair share, then we'll make you richer! Don't you understand, we will make you richer! Libertarianism is best led by Bernie Sanders, a man who will give you more money through the state, and more money means more liberty!
Libertarians vote, Libertarians vote. Go vote, go vote. Bernie here I come! Libertarians vote! Libertarians vote! Go vote, go vote Sanders gets our vote! Bernie for President, he is a genuine man. Triumphs over fascism, and does the best he can! Libertarians vote, Libertarians vote. Go vote, go vote, Bernie gets our vote! Trump is fascist, and very racist too!
Beep boop I am a bot, it's all I got. Now off I go, where may I troll!
AutoModerator@reddit
Libertarian socialism is an oxymoron. The core tenet of libertarianism is private property beginning with the recognition of ownership of self and your own body and extending to ownership of that which is self-acquired and self-produced with that body.
Socialism and communism deny private property rights, and the right of ownership of what is self-acquired and self-produced.
This means they deny the ownership of self, and someone who does not own themselves is a slave.
Socialism and communism are totally incompatible with libertarianism, and are nothing more than forms of chattel slavery dressed up in pretty words to serve collective masters. Wealth robbery by the collective is just as immoral and unjust as much being robbed at gunpoint by an individual.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Diligent_Divide_3364@reddit
I thought I was in the Twilight Zone in this thread, thank you
lavender711@reddit
It's not free stuff tho ... Mamdani's has clearly articulated where the funding is coming from. I am anti paying taxes but I'm also anti mega rich people NOT paying taxes.
Fridsade@reddit
Exactly. Tax these corporations more.
MM800@reddit
Corporations don't pay taxes; corporations collect taxes.
ALL corporate tax burdens are passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices.
Paladrone111@reddit
C’mon, don’t play semantical games. You know what they mean.
Playing that game, you could say: well actually, individuals don’t pay taxes, their employers do; landlords don’t pay the mortgage, tenants do; etc. and so forth.
The specific obligations, liabilities, and entitlements of various agents across the chain of ownership, logistics, and financial flows each come with unique features.
Muddying the distinctions into nihilistic irrelevancy avoids critical thinking, pasted over through nonsensical high-minded contrarianism.
Obviously: corporations do pay taxes – not only in the sense that, yes there’s literal corporate income taxes on profits, but also to your specific point: no, corporations aren’t always able to pass costs along to consumers.
Frequently there are contractions in profit margins due to, say, tariffs, as they’re not always to pass along costs to consumers – profits / prices are often constrained by end-consumer demand, even under monopoly conditions.
MM800@reddit
Taxes for a corporation are a business expense. Like ALL other business expenses, they are rolled into the cost of making a product or providing a service. The customer pays 100% of a corporations business expenses - corporate taxes included. If the corporation didn't roll business expenses into the cost of its product, the corporation would end up in bankruptcy.
Using your example; the landlord /tenant relationship. If rent charged to the tenant didn't cover the mortgage and expenses of owning and maintaining a property, the property would eventually end up in foreclosure. Landlords buy and rent property in order to make a profit. When the expenses outweigh the incoming cash flow, the landlord has 3 options: raise the rent, sell the property, or let the property go into foreclosure.
So yes, the tenants do pay the mortgage. The tenants also pay the property taxes and the business taxes associated with the property they are renting.
ModernePrimitive@reddit
The point was that since an employer plays 100% of an individuals payroll income, the individual has never paid income tax or any other bill by this logic? Where the money to pay a debt comes from does not change that you are paying a debt. Where the business rolls up all their expenses and tries to make more money than that, an individual does the exact same thing when they try to sell their labor for more than the bills they have to pay.
MM800@reddit
The customers pay the employee payroll taxes.
The cost of labor, including the taxes individual employees pay, is a business expense and is ultimately paid for by the consumer - higher income taxes on employees = higher cost for consumer goods and services.
Higher taxes of any kind cause inflation. Most tax increases are subtle and go unnoticed, but every single one causes inflation - even if it is to a slight degree.
ModernePrimitive@reddit
These are all just different links in a chain of trading though. Can you not see the equivalency between a business selling a product and an individual selling their labor? Say that the business is a sole proprietorship with one employee. That proprietor has a contract to buy the labor of that employee for the agreed wage/salary. A subscription service that can be canceled by either party. That your labor is your own product to trade by right of self-ownership is basic Libertarian ideology.
MM800@reddit
Correct, and when tax increases on my labor reach a threshold, I demand higher wages stating such. Or I will seek higher wages elsewhere.
not_today_thank@reddit
I thought it was funny how many of the "raise corporate taxes" crowd joined the "corporations don't pay taxes" side to oppose Trump's tariffs.
MM800@reddit
They were more specific than corporate taxes - only criticizing "tariffs."
The fact of the matter is; no matter the tax levied on corporations, consumers end up paying them.
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
Taxing the wealthy is theft as sure as taxing everyone is.
lavender711@reddit
I agree, but the wealthy do not pay taxes. I do and am unable to avoid it like the wealthy are. So either they pay and we ALL get free things or no one pays at all. Since we are leagues away from a taxless society, I am in favor of the wealthy paying up.
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
I don't know where you're getting that idea from, because the wealthy, even the ultra wealthy, absolutely do pay taxes.
lavender711@reddit
That's naive of you to think so.
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
The top one percent in the nation account for 26% of the nation's income, but pay 46% of federal taxes. I'm sure the talking box told you to think that they pay next to nothing, but that's the truth of the matter.
Time193@reddit
Top 1% pay over 40% of all federal income, the bottom 50% which is anyone below 40K, paid 2%. So I have no idea where you got the fact they don't pay taxes.
JokersWyld@reddit
My guy, have you even researched who pays the most taxes?
The top 10 percent of income earners pay more than 60 percent of all federal taxes and 72 percent of income taxes, shares that have been increasing over time.
The top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all federal income taxes.
anarchyusa@reddit
This is obviously a plant but I’ll reply for anyone unfortunate enough to be following this thread. The people who voted for him did so on the promise of free stuff, obviously he gets it where every other socialist gets money, they start at the top and work their way to the bottom.
lavender711@reddit
I disagree that people voted on the premise of free stuff. People got behind him because he's refreshing and doesn't care about Israel. The allure of free buses is nice, but in a city where the subway reigns, it hardly means much. People liked his sound bites and that he could stand face against established politicians and make them look so phony.
anarchyusa@reddit
There’s nothing authentic about Mamdani. His policies will be final nail in NYC’s coffin. “Violence is a construct”? the guy has the political sensibilities of a child. If Godzilla was running against him on a platform of rampaging through the city once a year it would still be a better choice.
lavender711@reddit
Why be so dramatic?? Is he that much worse than Cuomo or Eric Adams?? We don't know so why not give him the decency of a shot. The people ranked him and they want him. If NYC goes down burning in socialist flames so be it. But until then no one has any right to fear monger.
anarchyusa@reddit
More exaggerating for comedic effect. But yes, he is that much worse and I know that sounds like the worst game of “would you rather” ever. He on record with enough terrible political takes that I have no good reason to expect anything different from every other time someone with same got into power.
anarchyusa@reddit
Lol
Thirsty_llama@reddit
I'm not disagreeing with your take, but I do feel like the alternative is the super wealthy and their organizations funding politicians for favors. So it's take form the rich minority to give to the majority, or let the rich minority pay for what is in their best interest, neither feels right, but the latter feels worse the older I get.
afinitie@reddit
?? Sounds like you want a bunch of free shit and let someone else foot the bill. Rules for thee and not for me.
8-BitTakeout@reddit
If we’re gonna have a tax system, it’s better to have a progressive, rather than regressive, tax system. This is js a historical and economic fact.
junglepiehelmet@reddit
Absolutely. Tax the rich and make them pay their fair share. If not, remove income taxes for everyone. A billionaire hoarding wealth and on a never ending path to obtain and hoard more isn’t great for the economy if they aren’t paying taxes fairly.
19_Cornelius_19@reddit
Taxation is theft no matter how you cut it.
There's also no "paying your fair share of taxes." There's nothing fair about income taxes. I make more money, so I pay more in taxes = unfair. I make less money, do I pay less in taxes = unfair. That unfairness also really comes out when other people's taxes go to other people.
The government does not have a right to your earnings from labor. Income tax needs to go altogether and government bloat needs to be slashed.
lullaby876@reddit
Tax the rich and make them pay their fair share. If not, remove income taxes for everyone.
Your terms are acceptable.
Pastrami_Johnson@reddit
Babylon Bee is bad boomer humor. The Onion is way funnier
Semirahl@reddit
The Onion was funny about 20 years ago. it's mostly woke trash now.
Pastrami_Johnson@reddit
Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about? Are you one of those people who sees “woke” everywhere? Is the woke in the room now.
Please go to their homepage right now and find me an example of this “wokeness.”
Semirahl@reddit
it really is unfunny trash for the most part. if you are afraid of words I can try to say it other, much more long-winded ways. it's an anti-libertarian, anti-conservative, anti-constitutional, anti-free speech, pro-progressive, pro-critical race theory, pro-child mutilation, pro-hamas cesspool of modern liberal douchebags who couldn't meme their way out of a paper bag. or, I could just say 'woke', and it would be simpler.
wp-ak@reddit
I think you need to look up the definition of “satire”
Pastrami_Johnson@reddit
So you’re saying that you have no sense of humor, got it. I love that you are accusing me of being sensitive, by the way. That is really rich.
Also, I love that you cannot produce an example of the “offensive” “woke” content that has your panties in a bunch.
BigPimpin91@reddit
https://youtu.be/v2QGME8KHzY
Pastrami_Johnson@reddit
This guy has a great perspective on this. Very well stated
mcbeezy94@reddit
Not saying I support this guy, but that’s literally the same thing Trump did saying “groceries” was a magic word as literally everything has skyrocketed in price due to tariffs
putlersux@reddit
I hope this guy wins. His failure as mayor will be a high profile example of why socialism doesn't work.
Away_Ad_509@reddit
Idiots will still say “ it wasn’t real socialism!!!”
putlersux@reddit
Goes without saying
AutoModerator@reddit
Reminder: 'not-true'-socialism has killed 100 million people. But wait, that was actually state capitalism! Carry on, comrade!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Diligent_Divide_3364@reddit
Reddit is such a leftist echo chamber psyop that even the libertarian subs don’t have anyone commenting libertarian shit and yall are downvoting anything remotely libertarian
HonkyTonkBluesYEAH@reddit
It makes some sense for the Libertarian subreddit, given that everyone got free speech here and thus Libertarians will be less represented in a sea of leftists, conservatives and Libertarian Catholics. But what's crazier is that even the strict subs have left-wing brigading. If you want to see how left-wing Reddit is, go see the conservative subreddit. Even with huge regulations on speech, the conservative subreddit always has the disagreeing "conservatives" get the most upvotes. Do you think it is the real conservatives who are behind that, or is it someone else?
Jolly_Job_9852@reddit
I generally was a part of that sub for about 2 years and I often got into it with other conservatives over what I thought to be common sense and not always toeing said conservative line. Eventually I was banned for being too liberal and others who voiced right wing objections to Trump or other conservative viewpoints were met with bans and flair removals.
CarmelloYello@reddit
This is an absurdly soy post.
zacharycummings123@reddit
Or, hear me out, it’s called investing in citizens so the country actually functions better.
OdinThePirate@reddit
DOWN VOTE
Shadix@reddit
At this point, with the goal of reducing suffering, in all for anyone that's anti zionist
BlackberryNo2348@reddit
The harder they go against this guy, the more I hope he wins.
Diligent_Divide_3364@reddit
That’s crazy work for a “libertarian” to say
jmerlinb@reddit
who said anything about “free”
Diligent_Divide_3364@reddit
That’s the satire…
RocksCanOnlyWait@reddit
"Free" is great! We'll party lots of money for "free".
coatingtonburlfactry@reddit
Zoltar will give you a lot of wisdom!
BananoVampire@reddit
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." -- George Carlin
HeartMain@reddit
🐐
fnfrhh@reddit
Just don't ask about the free things trump promised to other stupid people. Populism goes both ways folks
HeartMain@reddit
👌
ENVYisEVIL@reddit (OP)
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
We’re libertarians. We know that already.
fnfrhh@reddit
Oh, that's funny. I almost mistook you for an overly self-satisfied conservative. Won't happen again!
Popular-Panda-8647@reddit
Not my city, not my problem.
Rstar2247@reddit
It'll be a problem when it hits the fan so bad they start moving out quicker than they are. Then they'll be in your city, voting for the same crap that ruined theirs, and your problem.
Popular-Panda-8647@reddit
Dude how does that make any sense? The people who will be leaving will be the ones who oppose socialism, and they will be replaced by more socialist.
Stop living in fear of what your neighbor “might” do and focus on what is real and happening right now.
Rstar2247@reddit
Focusing on what is real and happening now is good advice. You should consider taking it.
Such as not assigning actions or motivations to others statements that you obviously know nothing about and have no basis in reality.
Popular-Panda-8647@reddit
Lmao gg
Sir_John_Galt@reddit
This kind of thinking reminds me of this parable….(I did not author this);
The Dinner Roll ..
Once upon a time I was invited to the White House for a private dinner with the President. I am a respected businessman, with a factory that produces memory chips for computers and portable electronics. There was some talk that my industry was being scrutinized by the administration, but I paid it no mind. I live in a FREE country. There's nothing that the government can do to me if I've broken no laws. My wealth was EARNED honestly, and an invitation to dinner with an American President is an honor. I checked my coat, was greeted by the Chief of Staff, and joined the President in a yellow dining room. We sat across from each other at a table draped in white linen. The Great Seal was embossed on the china. Uniformed staff served our dinner. The meal was served, and I was startled when my waiter suddenly reached out, plucked a dinner roll off my plate and began nibbling it as he walked back to the kitchen.. "Sorry 'bout that," said the President. "Andrew is very hungry." "I don't appreciate...." I began, but as I looked into the calm brown eyes across from me, I felt immediately guilty and petty. It was just a dinner roll. "Of course," I concluded, and reached for my glass. Before I could, however, another waiter reached forward, took the glass away and swallowed the wine in a single gulp. "And his brother, Eric, is very thirsty," said the President.
I didn't say anything. The President is testing my compassion, I thought. I withheld my comments and decided to play along. I don't want to seem unkind.. My plate was whisked away before I had tasted a bite. "Eric's children are also quite hungry." With a lurch, I crashed to the floor. My chair had been pulled out from under me. I stood, brushing myself off angrily, and watched as it was carried from the room. And their grandmother can't stand for long." I excused myself, smiling outwardly, but inside feeling like a fool. Obviously I had been invited to the White House to be sport for some game. I reached for my coat, to find that it had been taken.. I turned back to the President. "Their grandfather doesn't like the cold." I wanted to shout, "that was my coat!" But again, I looked at the placid smiling face of my host and decided I was being a poor sport. I spread my hands helplessly and chuckled. Then I felt my hip pocket and realized my wallet was gone. I excused myself and walked to a phone on an elegant side table. I learned shortly that my credit cards had been maxed out, my bank accounts emptied, my retirement and equity portfolios had vanished, and my wife had been thrown out of our home. Apparently, the waiters and their families were moving in. The President hadn't moved or spoken as I learned all this, but finally I lowered the phone into its cradle and turned to face him. "Andrew's whole family has made bad financial decisions. They haven't planned for retirement and they need a house. They recently defaulted on a subprime mortgage. I told them they could have your home. They need it more than you do." My hands were shaking. I felt faint I stumbled back to the table and knelt on the floor. The President cheerfully cut his meat, ate his steak, and drank his wine. I lowered my eyes and stared at the small grey circles on the tablecloth that were water drops. "By the way," he added, "I have just signed an Executive Order nationalizing your factories. I'm firing you as head of your business. I'll be operating the firm now for the benefit of all mankind. There's a whole bunch of Erics and Andrews out there and they can't come to you for jobs groveling like beggars...we need to spread YOUR wealth around..." I looked up. The President dropped his spoon into the empty ramekin which had been his crème Brule. He drained the last drops of his wine. As the table was cleared, he lit a cigarette and leaned back in his chair. He stared at me. I clung to the edge of the table as if it were a ledge and I were a man hanging over an abyss. I thought of the years behind me, of the life I had lived. The life I had earned with a lifetime of work, risk and struggle. Why was I punished? How had I allowed it to be taken? What game had I played and lost? I looked across the table and noticed with some surprise that there was no game board between us.
What had I done wrong?
As if answering the unspoken thought, the President suddenly cocked his head, locked his empty eyes to mine, and bared a million teeth, chuckling wryly as he folded his hands. "You should have stopped me at the dinner roll," he said.
Bottom line, just because they are not grabbing your “roll” this time, doesn’t mean you are not next…
Popular-Panda-8647@reddit
Not my dinner roll, not my problem
WindBehindTheStars@reddit
I got severely downvoted on the original posting because I suggested that maybe the government has a little too much power.
joeschmoses@reddit
This is just the same joke my boomer dad made around the Bush era we don’t expect them to do anything different. Don’t have anything new you can add???