TSA is unconstitutional
Posted by thechemist1689@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 36 comments
I know this is nothing new, but I don’t fly very frequently. And every time I have to go through security, I wish there was a list of things the government couldn’t do. And maybe the fourth one on the list would prevent the state from searching through my person and belongings.
Anyway, they took the picture of me before I could opt out. And then since I had asked to opt out, they were super suspicious and gave me a hard time. Then they searched my backpack and tried to take the silver coins I was bringing as a gift. And to make matters worse, we’re robbed by taxation and inflation to pay the traitorous servants of the tyrannical state.
Turbosuit@reddit
I always make sure to tell my son "Now prepare to experience a violation of your constitutional rights as an American."
ultronthedestroyer@reddit
I refuse the pictures/biometrics every time, even at customs. They get kinda annoyed but just act like I’m a weirdo and then let me on through. Never been a real problem. Wish more people would push back on it before “voluntary” becomes mandatory.
mjsisko@reddit
Can I honestly, trying to be a dick, but why? Surely you have a drivers license or a passport if you are flying/dealing with customs. So they have your photo already, as soon as you walked into the airport they had a new one.
What is accomplished by opting out?
oboshoe@reddit
it's not necessarily about this intrusion and violation. it's to provide resistance to the next 10 successive intrusions that they are thinking about.
after all, is -no one- minds this, then surely they won't mind this next one thing.
mjsisko@reddit
Then what is the alternative for airport and flight security and yes I know TSA is not the gold standard of security, but it is better than nothing. What do you envision replacing it?
Vlongranter@reddit
SPP, there’s a few major airports who have already adopted this.
mjsisko@reddit
So TSA but using private contractors? TSA rules and standards, TSA oversight and enforcement. The only difference I can see is that it likely costs more.
Vlongranter@reddit
I think you have a very limp grasp on the idea of privatization, which is a cornerstone of libertarianism.
I wrote a college paper for an Aviation Security class a few months ago, I’ll see if I have it anywhere for specifics and the resources. But from what I remember from my research the SPP results in faster screenings and lower costs overall. And I do believe that the burden of cost comes from the airport themselves instead of the taxpayers, so you only pay for the service if you use it. And with the TSA laying the groundwork for security standards, it results in only a couple of TSA high level managers even present in the airport at a time. Considering how terrible the TSA is at doing their job, the SPP is objectively better in almost every measurable facet.
mjsisko@reddit
I would be very curious to read that paper and fact check it.
Vlongranter@reddit
Your photo ID and actual Biometrics are different from one another. If someone steals your ID you can get that replaced, you can change you info and other things like that. If someone steals your biometric information, such as your facial scan, iris scans, or fingerprints, you cannot change those things. That person who stole that information has the ability to completely become you in any remote digital verification process. While it would take quite a bit of skill/knowledge to be able to accomplish this level of identity theft, there is no doubt that there are people out there willing to take the biometrics and use it maliciously.
The TSA is the one who currently holds and processes the biometric information for identity verification in the airports. And based on there extremely worrisome track record of physical security in terms of detecting weapons, drugs, and bombs, I don’t hold a lot of trust in them to keep my biometric information safe.
If your biometrics are compromised you’re always going to be compromised.
ultronthedestroyer@reddit
Along with the other poster’s comment about the boiling pot of surveillance measures, the cameras used at the airport are not ordinary cameras. They are taking 3D photos using dual camera setups to get much richer data on your facial characteristics than a 2D image from a random angle. Your passport photo is flattened and doesn’t give explicit depth information from which you can reconstruct your face from multiple angles.
Tetsubin@reddit
I'm pretty glad there's security at airports. We may feel they could do a better job or could be less intrusive, but allowing passengers to bring whatever they want onto airplanes seems like a really bad idea.
longway2fall@reddit
There are alternatives to government mandated and controlled security.
mjsisko@reddit
What? Airlines or airports being in charge of, passing the direct cost to the flights and skipping actual security checks to ensure higher profits?
What is the other option?
longway2fall@reddit
Yes. Oddly enough, airlines don't want their planes blown up either. Go to a place like Haiti and they don't trust airport security so they have their own.
mjsisko@reddit
So what is the alternative? Military control of the airports? I have seen that in foreign countries. Haiti uses local police and their military along with Kenyan led UN security force.
Is that what you hope for here? Armed U.S. military and local PD in charge of the airports?
longway2fall@reddit
The alternative is allowing airlines to do their own security. If you shut down the TSA today, those same agents would be hired tomorrow, and I can pretty much guarantee the airlines would be able to do a more efficient job. Airline A has 10 minute or less security line every time I go to the airport? Worth the extra $20 a ticket. Maybe the airline has an app showing how long the security line is, so I don't have to show up 2 hours early to the airport. Maybe I'm running late and can pay extra to go through the faster line. Competition drives innovation, reducing prices and giving better services. Why would this be any different?
Vlongranter@reddit
SPP
natermer@reddit
TSA is security circus.
The reason that TSA is very "loud"... that is they stand around in blue unforms barking out orders, intrusive searches, naked body scanners, etc. Is that it is a show of security.
The point is to make a very public display of "security" so that people believe that the government is "doing something".
It isn't actual real security for the most part. It is a little bit, but that really was never the point.
A simple example is this:
TSA confiscates liquids over a certain size because, apparently, somebody watched Die Hard 3 and saw that the terrorist there used "binary liquid" bombs where you mix liquids together to make explosives.
So you are not allowed to bring on shampoo bottles or toothpaste unless it is a very tiny amount.
And if you do and they find it they will then toss those potential bombs into a gigantic trash bin behind them, which then they go and dump in a incinerator somewhere.
If the materials they are taking from you are really that potentially dangerous... wouldn't they do something with them besides throwing them in a trash bin and standing next to them for their entire shifts? Wouldn't that make you a bit worried?
Also if I was a terrorist and wanted to inflict maximum fear and carnage on a unsuspecting public... wouldn't a TSA checkpoint be the ideal place to do it?
All the data on peak times and wait times and such things is published online. If I was a suicide bomber I don't need to provide ID or even buy a ticket to go and stand in line. I can just walk into any airport with the biggest "carry on" bag I can find at Walmart full of explosives and just wait until I get to near front of a long line and blow it up. There would be hundreds, if not thousands of people standing around in a big airport and I get to take them out, their families waiving them goodbye and a bunch of government agents and police.
Why would I ever need to actually get on a plane?
Personal_Seesaw@reddit
Are you scared to get on a bus?
Benedict_ARNY@reddit
Libertarians worshiping a legal document is never not funny
Nakedsharks@reddit
All of that is annoying, but what really chaps me is when they fondle you. Last time I flew I wore gym shorts and a shirt. No zippers, piercings, or metal of any kind anywhere on my body. They still pulled me aside and fondled my balls. While they were doing it, one of them commented on my libertarian shirt. Pretty sure that was the only reason they pulled me aside and did that, because it's never happened before, even when I was wearing jeans. Fuck TSA.
Vlongranter@reddit
A complimentary ball fondling you say? I may have to visit for verification purposes
lazyear@reddit
Look at this guy, complaining about getting his balls fondled, and he didn't even have to pay for it.
Nakedsharks@reddit
No, I paid for it alright. Paid for it with my hard earned money, that's stolen from me via taxation.
natermer@reddit
TSA, ICE, FBI, etc.
Almost all of it is illegal.
CalligrapherOther510@reddit
They ask to take your photo now? That’s news to me I haven’t flown in a few years but the millions of cameras, your ID, your passport, you literal face, the screening, the machines that can build a 3D naked model of you, your dick and everything isn’t enough? Then they give you a hard time for just saying no? Fucking assholes stuff like this is exactly why I am a libertarian.
Long-Grapefruit-4486@reddit
Abolish the TSA
ThunderMuffin233@reddit
I can see where you're coming from, but I think of airports and planes as private property and not public property, and the owners have a right to prohibit certain items, and enforce it by performing a search. If someone wishes to enter your property, you have the right to deny entry to persons possessing prohibited items, and/or deny access to persons that refuse a search for such prohibited items. The person also has the right to not enter the property
thechemist1689@reddit (OP)
Agreed! But TSA isn’t private security, it’s the state. If it was all privatized, I’d prob pick the airline based on not getting fondled lol if I’m doing business with them, I’ll let them scan my bag. But I don’t want the state doing it for them
ThunderMuffin233@reddit
Ah, I see your point. I guess it could be more like the DOT performing vehicle inspections for operation on public roads. If you have a private road, it is not necessary. As far as I'm aware, if you have a private airfield, then you won't need TSA
AltReality@reddit
You are not required to fly. The TSA is garbage, but I do not believe they are violating your rights by searching you. Now if they stopped you on the street and searched you, that would be another story.
diderooy@reddit
You're not required to be on the street, though?
AltReality@reddit
yeah but you are..if you want to go from one place to another, you literally only have the streets as an option. If you want to use the airplanes to get to somewhere further away, you need to be searched...otherwise we get issues like 9/11.
CCWaterBug@reddit
Yawn. I fly 15x a year. I'm long over it.
Good luck.
Vlongranter@reddit
More airports should adopt the SPP. And in terms of biometrics, the TSA is definitely one of the last agencies that I want to handle that information; not that I want any agency having my biometrics in the first place. The TSA is security theater, and as such is a massive waste of taxpayer money.