We Review an Alpine A110 In the USA (It Makes Us Mad!) - TheSmokingTire
Posted by mymomisyourfather@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 225 comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhV3Dqt067E
The Alpine A110, for Americans who don't know, is a retro-future version of a French sports car by the same name from the early 1970's. It was known for being light and visceral, and the new version is no different. European journalists and enthusiasts have sang the A110's praises for all eight years it's been on the market, but Americans never got a taste on their home roads, until now!
Special shoutout to TST fan Ben C for sharing his car with us!
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
My hope is to purchase an Alfa 4C to scratch my small sports car itch in a few years. I am banking on current owners taking good care of them.
AnonEmbeddedEngineer@reddit
I've seen a pretty wide range of owners for Alfa 4Cs. Multiple 120k mile plus examples that look like they have been through the wringer, and then people like my dad who somehow only has 12K miles on his 16' 4C and it's genuinely so clean that you are dirtier than the car most of the time.
However I've found most 4C owners to be mechanically sympathetic and take care of the maintenance of the cars.
Other guy talked about alignment which I agree, it can have some sketchy steering without an alignment. But there's also aftermarket parts that fix the caster issue and make it absolutely sublime to drive.
Armored_Guardian@reddit
Just curious, but why not get a series 2 Lotus Elise or Exige instead? Especially seeing as the US model 4C gained like 400 pounds?
Similar power, a LOT less weight, manual transmission, and a reliable, moddable Toyota engine seems like a no-brainer to me
Porshuh@reddit
Do you know what a typical US market Exige weighs? It's not the weight of an Elise with no AC lol
Armored_Guardian@reddit
Porshuh@reddit
I think that’s implicit in “US market”
Armored_Guardian@reddit
I assumed you were talking about the S3 Exige, it being a bigger car than the S3 Elise.
That said, I’m not sure what you were getting at. As far as I can tell there is no significant weight difference between a similarly spec’d S2 Elise and Exige. They both hover around 2000 pounds in US trim, which is about 400 pounds less than a US market 4C.
krombopulousnathan@reddit
Alfa pretty
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
I personally like the Alfa styling.
longgamma@reddit
Just get a used NC miata
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
I don’t want a Miata though.
gimpwiz@reddit
Get an Elise then
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
I like the styling of the Alfa more. Elises are great too, I just want an Alfa.
gimpwiz@reddit
Fair enough. Hope you enjoy it!
Niyeaux@reddit
the 4C is just an objectively worse car than the MX-5. you will spend like five times as much keeping it on the road for no real reason.
komrobert@reddit
How is it “objectively” worse? More power, fast DCT, better engine noises, quantifiably better braking and lateral Gs on skidpad (motor trend testing between 2024 ND Club and 2015 4C)
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
Some folks like their spec sheets. I like the Alfa because it is a baby exotic car. The presence is there. The limited nature of the vehicle has value for me (I also own a 337 GTI for similar reasons). I’d like to wrench on it as a hobby. It has a character that comes with Italian things and it is a carbon tubbed car that isn’t 6 figures.
It is an interesting machine to me. It doesn’t need to be the fasted or best value for me. I want one.
Niyeaux@reddit
because it's built by fucking Alfa lmao. use your brain.
gIOonNii@reddit
It may be a worse car but it's ten times the experience. The mx5 is great but really they are very different cars.
xamdou@reddit
Miata is cool, but the 4C and the A110 have nice, boosted 4-pots and fun DCTs.
AznTri4d@reddit
I’m biased and will say they are overhated handling wise.
A lot of them had terrible alignments from the factory and from being shipped over.
Good alignment or front suspension blocks can increase your castor and give you more on center steering stability, if that’s what you want.
Me on the other hand, I’m just used to the manual steering. It’s a blast. Looks great, turbo noises, cool carbon tub. The dry dual clutch isn’t the greatest but it isn’t terrible either.
I Autocross my 4C frequently and competitively and track it as well. My only complaint is that if you really really are near the limit the seats don’t hold you in well.
Tl;dr if you’re thinking about a 4C, do it. You can also probably get out of one for similar money that you got in as well if it’s not to your liking.
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
Thanks, I’ve done a bit of research, and it really does appeal to me. There is a decent enough demand for it on the used market to keep values up, relatively. It is a special car, has a decently sized community online for support, and looks like a fun hobbyists car for weekend driving. I am near Big Sur in California, so we have nice weekend roads for driving which would compliment the 4C experience we’ll.
AznTri4d@reddit
Awesome. I’ve done the drive thru Big Sur and it’s excellent of course.
If you’re not already, get on the 4C forums. Every once in awhile someone is offloading a 4C that will already have stuff done to it giving extra value. I sometimes wish I did that so I don’t have to piece together all the track goodies I want.
Also will say (and knock on wood) that’s it’s been reliable for me. Only thing that’s failed is an evap purge valve that’s like 25 bucks if you get the mopar replacement instead of the Alfa part number version.
If you ever do start doing more track or hpde stuff consumables such and brakes are on the pricier side but hey that’s expected.
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
Thanks for the wisdom - all the stuff you say rings true with some of the stuff I’ve read about the 4C. Doing the chassis bolts is one of the weirder maintenance items I’ve never done since I’ve never owned a car with a carbon tub, but most accounts I’ve read that the powertrain is pretty simple for the most part, and not too difficult to work on. I definitely expect a bit higher parts pricing due to the relative rarity and the brand.
I’ve not yet joined the forums as my serious inquiries are a few years out (got kids and house on the California coast eating my expendable income), but will when I have the time and $ to more seriously consider the purchase.
FreshSetOfBatteries@reddit
Just be aware they are uncomfortable
Weak-Specific-6599@reddit
I mean, I drive a Bolt EV as my commuter, and most people say those seats are garbage too.
tiagojpg@reddit
Once the average American learns there is a (communist) puny 1.8L 4cyl and that it costs 70k it’s a hard pass, I’m sure. They can get a Corvette with a V8 “modor” for that kind of money.
PanadaTM@reddit
Having a car that handles like an eagle isn't very useful when all the roads are straight
Yummy_Hershey@reddit
The US has plenty of curvy roads as long as you’re along the east or west coast. If you’re not…🤷♂️
SnootDoctor@reddit
Southern Indiana (Hoosier Natl Forest), Kentucky, and Tennessee all have curvy, hilly backroads
sjgbfs@reddit
Not sure. Rode the Tail of the Dragon, it doesn't come close to many random departementale in France. Don't get me wrong, it is curvy and hilly and fun by american standards. Still a far cry from european small roads.
yetiflask@reddit
Proof? France has very few nice roads.
sjgbfs@reddit
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ok yeah sure.
yetiflask@reddit
Give me examples. Austria/Suisse/Italy. Yeah, got plenty af. But Germany is flat as hell. And France is too.
Instead of moronic, you could a given examples. But you didn't.
sjgbfs@reddit
Yeah no you're right. Not a single pleasant or fun road in France.
yetiflask@reddit
Still no examples and exaggerating what I said. Keep trolling.
sjgbfs@reddit
What can I say, you seem so pleasant.
SnootDoctor@reddit
Never been to the Dragon, so no comments there.
But yeah, if you’re north of Kentucky, anywhere between Pennsylvania & Colorado, good luck finding some twisties.
Sinister_Crayon@reddit
Living in St. Louis I do sort of agree with you, but South and West of me here the topology is dynamic enough that there are a good number of interesting roads. They're not as twisty as you get up in the mountains but there are some really nice sweeping roads not far outside the city, and doing a ride from here to Lake of the Ozarks keeping South of the river has some really nice rides.
Legend13CNS@reddit
Is that the worst thing though? I volunteer at an event and have gone all over Western NC/Eastern TN mountain roads with enthusiasts from all over the world. I get a lot of comments on the roads in that area being a better mix of curves/openness/width than average European mountain roads.
One day I'll try the European roads for myself, but I've been told to expect a much slower, more narrow, hairpin->straight->hairpin, experience.
sjgbfs@reddit
Yeah it's more of a race track, if that makes any sense. Clean tarmac, wide, flat, even, sweepy and curvy.
Mountain passes are indeed a brief succession of hairpins, but most small roads aren't like that. Hard to put into words, it's more varied, there's more of them, they can be rougher, for sure narrower but such fun, it feels more organic. Do what you can to head out there, get yourself a Michelin paper map and try out the roads highlighted in green. Can't go wrong.
GodsFavoriteDegen@reddit
The Olive Garden of twisty backroads.
That particular route is immensely popular specifically because it is not a challenge for lightly drunk out of shape 60 year olds on motorcycles with 80 year old suspension designs.
Egoist-a@reddit
A110S is a 171mph car.
Yes power is not that big, but it's light, and has a small'ish footprint, so it can prenetrate air better than most cars.
Legend13CNS@reddit
Someone got a stock Elantra N to 167 mph on flat ground in "Mexico" with video proof. Call me a hater, but if we imagine the A110 was available in the US I'd really only be interested with one of the following a) a manual, b) sub $50k price tag, c) more power from factory.
Egoist-a@reddit
Elantra is a 300hp car. 167 sounds totally reasonable, not sure what’s the point you’re trying to make.
RobinVerhulstZ@reddit
it's also absolutely no slouch from a stop as even the base version does 0-60 in 4.5s
iloveturkey7@reddit
Did you only visit Disney world in Florida to think the US only has straight roads?
tiagojpg@reddit
Someone must have some windy roads somewhere! I’ve seen the Gears&Gasoline videos in Virginia and beautiful mountain scapes. I’d love to do one of those grand trips one day.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit
Literally hahaha.
https://imgur.com/a/VZF6zcG
tiagojpg@reddit
Bingo! I’m very biased but I’d still go for the A110 (even in Europe, where the Corvette is a unicorn)
RobinVerhulstZ@reddit
more like especially in europe where gas prices and displacement taxes would make a corvette way more expensive to own
if i ever get a corvette its gotta be at least 30 years old so i can atleast suffer a mere 100-ish euro yearly road tax instead of 3000-5000+....
tiagojpg@reddit
Oof yeah, a V8’s tax is up there. In Portugal it’d be 1000€/year - just a bit less than the median monthly income.
RobinVerhulstZ@reddit
for a c6 corvette base model it'd be 6k yearly with an almost 5k registration fee here in Belgium
it's just insane
the dumbest thing is that pickup trucks were virtually always exempt here until recently (but still often exempt) so it's actually fairly common to see dodge RAM HEMI's around here because they pay less tax for that monstrosity than i do for my friggin 1.5l mx5 that can get prius-like highway fuel economy......
fortunately once cars reach oldtimer status (used to be 25y, now is 30y) they drop the taxes to negligible amounts, so a C4 or older corvette would be cheaper in road tax than my mx5
tiagojpg@reddit
Insaaaane! I’ve checked the median Belgian salary is 3700€, so that’s a biiiig slice.
The vintage car tax is also low or null here.
RobinVerhulstZ@reddit
We also only keep like 2300-ish euro from that 3700 after the taxman robs us of their share lol, also doesnt account for the extra taxed wage we dont see on our paycheck either
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit
Maybe if it was a manual it would be different for me.
Idk, I think its cool, but it just doesnt have a huge appeal to me.
I would much rather take a Miata and mod it out with an amazing 6 speed manual for tens of thousands less.
tiagojpg@reddit
Supposedly they did auto-only because it save weight. Source.
Modded cars are meh - this is speaking theoretically, if I had the 70k laying around to buy a sports car - and you don’t need more than 300hp in a 1100kg (2400lb) car. Any car for that matter.
gumol@reddit
yeah but then you have a heavily modded car, which is meh. You lose reliability, you lose warranty.
BTTWchungus@reddit
It's absolutely overpriced considering that $70k is Cayman money.
Penguinho@reddit
In the podcast that accompanies this video, Matt Farah said he felt like the A110 compared pretty well to his 4.5L DeMan 718 Spyder.
mintz41@reddit
The A110 is a better car than the Cayman you're getting at $70k, no doubt about it
RobinVerhulstZ@reddit
yeah but the cayman isn't exactly lighter than an NC miata whereas this is
tiagojpg@reddit
A Porsche is a Porsche but if you want to go for unique and different then the A110 is it. It’s rare and it’s got a funky retro design. I live on a small European island and I see more different Porsches/week than I see the 4-5 different Alpines I know are on the island in a WHOLE YEAR.
Egoist-a@reddit
The A110 is Cayman good
gIOonNii@reddit
So what, it's 300 kg lighter. It's a different proposition.
Fit_Equivalent3610@reddit
$70k is base Cayman money and that gets you a stripper model without any of Porsche's famously expensive options. The Cayman has 50 extra hp but also weighs almost 700lbs more lol. The base A110 is also slightly quicker to 60mph than a base Cayman.
I would personally take the A110 every single time but the Cayman certainly has various benefits too.
gumol@reddit
But the Cayman is also a 4 cylinder.
BlitzShooter@reddit
Very nice Lotus’s can also be had for that kind of money.
tiagojpg@reddit
I understand, and a Lotus is a Lotus. But the Emira is still a bit heavier than the A110, so if I had that money laying around I’d spring for the Alpine (but I’m a Renault/Apine fan, so there is a strong bias).
The A110 has also got the smaller engine, despite its ~300hp, so -theoretically- better fuel efficiency for just cruising or roadtrips (?). Could be a null point for those just looking for a sports car with no care for fuel efficiency.
Dragonasaur@reddit
Idk if people care, but isn't the A110 auto and the Emira manual?
Temporary-Pepper3994@reddit
Yeah, but the manual sucks.
That's coming from a guy literally sitting in a manual one replying to you.
Mimical@reddit
I don't trust you at all.
Let me try it to verify.
(Silliness aside, that's sad to hear)
slashkehrin@reddit
"A bit" is an understatement. It is more than 300kg heavier.
Elemkontasba@reddit
thats like 25% heavier?
tiagojpg@reddit
Yup, I was understating it a bit haha. I’ve never driven either but that’s noticeable for sure.
strmshdow84@reddit
It's a tough sale though. At 70k and being a 1.8l, really depends on how it would take to mods. I just feel that when you hit 70k you have to have more going for you than lightweight.
Ran4@reddit
Who cares about it being 1.8 liters? Look at the fucking weight!
Y'all need to drive lighter cars. Have you never driven an economy hatchback at 9/10s on a b road?
strmshdow84@reddit
You must not see my flair... My Exige is LESS than 2k lbs, I have a lightweight car. You can also go look and see how well the 4C did (something I liked) and see where just lightweight gets you.
Again at 70k you need more than lightweight to sell a car.
tiagojpg@reddit
The 4C was just a step beyond, doing everything for lightness. Not even power steering!
strmshdow84@reddit
I agree, carbon fiber tub and all. But the price and dealer experience among other things are what sunk it here.
tiagojpg@reddit
The mockery that James May and Richard Hammond make out of Jeremy’s 4C on The Grand Tour is priceless haha. It does look like a poorly put together car too. FCA being FCA in the 2010s.
brealytrent@reddit
The non-US market ones definitely had that reputation as they were all lowly spec'd. In the US almost all of them came with full leather and carbon accents inside which I think made it look the part. I will agree that the HVAC controls are very basic - why they didn't stick the Giulietta's climate control setup in I don't understand besides the drive for light weight.
WhyInTheHellNot@reddit
With respect to road trips, the Emira has effectively just enough space for two backpacks, whereas the A110 has that AND a frunk.
tiagojpg@reddit
frunk FTW woo!
TheAntiAirGuy@reddit
I'm hovering around the 9l/100km mark with my GT With pretty mixed city/country road/autobahn in there
On pure Motorway I got it to a solid 7l/100km mark, occasionally even below 7l
tiagojpg@reddit
That’s amazing! Similar to a Clio RS even, outstanding. I LOVE YOUR FLAIR wow. I remember seeing your post on r/Renault.
GoHuskies1984@reddit
While the efficiency sounds nice my gut says there is a very niche market of USA buyers looking at sports cars in this price bracket and prioritizing fuel economy.
tiagojpg@reddit
Yep, I understand. The buying power is much higher than average European, so that could maybe help? I know people have “no replacement for displacement” so ingrained, it’s be a tough sale.
BlitzShooter@reddit
I was more referring to an Elise but I suppose it’s not comparable as it’s not a new car
woodsides@reddit
As can pretty good older Porsches.
Strikerrr0@reddit
Even a 986 Boxster is still about 300 lbs heavier than A110 with a roof while having less power.
The A110 weighs a little more than a ND Miata while still having a DCT and Turbo engine.
Porencephaly@reddit
No ones saying the A110 is bad, just that it occupies a place in the US market where I don’t think adoption would be high. Depending on options one could spend similar money on a C8 stingray, a 997, a Boxster/Cayman, etc.. If being light is its party trick a Miata is much cheaper and an Emira or used Exige are much prettier.
Ran4@reddit
997 and Cayman/Boxster all weigh more and are clinically boring to drive.
iloveturkey7@reddit
Hahaha you need to look around more if a 997 is too boring
Porencephaly@reddit
lol tell me you’ve never driven a 997 hard without telling me
gumol@reddit
Cayman is slower than A110.
Porencephaly@reddit
So is a Miata, we aren’t comparing these cars only on speed or the correct decision would be C8 over all of them.
gumol@reddit
and yet other sports cars than C8 exist and thrive in the US.
It sounds like A110 fits very well in the Cayman space. Having competition is not a bad thing.
Porencephaly@reddit
Alpine doesn’t nearly have the brand cachet that Porsche has. The A110 would fare a lot closer to the Elise and the 4C.
Ran4@reddit
Those will be in the shops all the time though.
YetToLoseADime@reddit
This is the answer lol
Porshuh@reddit
Imagine placing your whole ass tongue on the roof of your mouth just to say the letter T. And not pronouncing the letter R.
tiagojpg@reddit
Can’t relate!
Porshuh@reddit
Well, you must not be in the non-American Anglosphere then, which makes one question why you would be seething over American pronunciations.
tiagojpg@reddit
It’s the funny way that Jeremy Clarkson and others make fun of the pronunciation. I am Portuguese but I tend to actually speak English with an American accent.
strongmanass@reddit
lol that's not anatomically possible. The tongue is in the same place for /d/ and /t/ and the same amount of it contacts your palate. The difference is whether or not your vocal chords vibrate, and whether you pronounce a little /h/.
Porshuh@reddit
🤓🤓🤓
a_berdeen@reddit
I mean for like 80% of the US a Corvette is a better fit for the roads than an A110 lol.
tiagojpg@reddit
A better fit as in, bigger displacement? Roomier interiors? An A110 will cruise fine at 70mph. It’s no luxury cruiser but will go far.
a_berdeen@reddit
But on a Florida or Texas road (lot's of other states fit this btw), the big damn V8 in the C8 is gonna offer more smiles for sound and straight line blasting.
aprtur@reddit
That's all well and good, but I can think of an almost equal number of states where the A110 would shine. Not all of America is flat, straight and boring requiring a straight line car to have any fun.
a_berdeen@reddit
But ther point is costumer demographics and who buys cars. The people living in good states with curvy roads aren't buying 70k Sportscars hence the total inviability of the a110 when compared to a c8.
aprtur@reddit
What??? This is a ridiculous argument, and I've seen firsthand a significant number of people proving this wrong (I live in the Mid-Atlantic). They may not be sheer volume sellers like a Corvette, but there are tons of cars in this region and north into New England that meet those metrics.
frankztn@reddit
He might be talking about Midwest roads, The A110 would be absolutely perfect here in the PNW. Up and down the cascades would feel right at home as it does in the French Alps.
Tight_Olive_2987@reddit
It’d be perfect almost everywhere on the east coast too.
tiagojpg@reddit
Yeah, made by Europe, for Europe, seems to be the general essence of this car.
gumol@reddit
more like 60k. UK prices have taxes included.
strmshdow84@reddit
Wouldn't be so sure. The Emira had something like a 76k but here it starts at 110k before taxes and it was 98K before tariffs.
gumol@reddit
Emira in the UK is 80k pounds, which is 110k USD.
Emira in the US starts at 100k USD.
strmshdow84@reddit
No, the Emira when released was 76k (104k US) and that's with VAT (correct me if I'm wrong). Also the 76k was the First edition V6, the base v6 is 104k and the 99k is the FE 4cyl.
Carscoops.com
gumol@reddit
I just looked at current prices at UK and US Lotus websites.
But yeah, UK price is with taxes, which is kinda my point.
strmshdow84@reddit
Now I may be wrong but your point seemed to be that it would be cheaper than the 70k here. But the fact is that it would be more expensive just as the Emira 76UK to 110US, so prices might look more like 70k UK 104k US.
gimpwiz@reddit
I swap between driving a supercharged C5, a miata, and an elise.
I love all three. Lightness is grand. I love the Elise, I love the Miata. But I wouldn't want to pay $70k for an A110. It's not just about being the same price as a base C8, it's just... I don't really see how it's a driving experience I would enjoy more than an Elise. Shrug.
Speaking of the Elise, look at the sales figures. 2005: 4000 units sold. 2006: 1000. 2007: 500. It turns out Americans are actually not that excited about expensive, uncomfortable, super light cars. The only people who can afford them are too heavy and/or too back-hurty-knee-hurty (ie, too old) to actually drive them. Other than the Miata, pretty much nothing properly light sells well. The 4C was selling, what, like ten units a month in the US towards the end of its production? And the 4C was kinda heavy in the US. The 86 twins sell okay too, though they're also a bit heavier.
ritz_are_the_shitz@reddit
but the alpine isn't uncomfortable? it's pretty damn nice inside with a compliant ride.
gimpwiz@reddit
Lots of old guys struggle to get in and out of sedans, and find any small car uncomfortable. Especially if the seats don't have like 7 inches of padding.
strmshdow84@reddit
Thank you. Maybe its a Reddit thing, but at the 70k market even enthusiasts are pickier on what they buy. I said it in an earlier comment, at 70k and above cyl count and hp start to matter more than light weight. I love lightweight cars but at 70k you have to be more than a 1 trick pony.
gimpwiz@reddit
Ultimately sports cars are just toys, and the only reason people buy them is because they make people feel good. Those feelings can come from many sources - people might feel good buying one, owning one, being seen in one, driving one to golf, driving one in the canyons, driving one on track, displaying it at shows, displaying it in their living room ... people might feel good because of the response to their inputs, people might feel good because it has better specs than a different car that someone else owns, too.
The more money people want to spend on a sports car, the less they want to compromise on any of the things that make them feel good.
For a lot of people, yeah, they just want to say it has more cylinders or more horsepower. A LOT of people. Very, very many people want to say this.
Some people want to say it's lighter. A lot fewer people.
The market for sports cars in the US shows this pretty well.
Lightness is amazing and lightness (and simplicity) should be every sports car's first goal if the guiding star is performance, feeling, running cost for consumables, etc.
However, street cars are not race cars, and manufacturers have to make what sells, and what sells is much more often things like you said - cylinder count and horsepower. And comfort. And features. And the badge.
Look at sales of the C6 vs the Elise back when both were brand new in 2005, and then 2006. "Why would I spend the same amount to buy a car with less than half the horsepower?"
The Elise has exotic styling, but it's uncomfortable for most old people, which first-year buyers quickly found out and often resold immediately. My own Elise had its first three owners in about three years of its life, because each of the three did not know what they were getting into.
The A110 would suffer the same issue. They might sell a few thousand units, but unlike Lotus, it hasn't even been a brand in the US to basically anyone's knowledge, so its sales would probably be more like the 4C: so small as to be negligible. A few hardcore enthusiasts would buy it and everyone else would buy a C8 or a Porsche. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
tiagojpg@reddit
That’s the fair point, basically why Alpine aren’t selling anything in the US of A
Cookie-Brown@reddit
Yawn
cock________________@reddit
V8 fuck yeah 😎
Space-Safari@reddit
And maybe they're right, it has a terrible reliability record.
tiagojpg@reddit
It’s the 1.8L from the Megane, it’s got some solid reliability (from what I’ve read)
Space-Safari@reddit
It literally caught fire during a test by James May.
But overall the engine is ok-ish, but it's a bit too much stress for a 1.8.
tiagojpg@reddit
Wasn’t it a pre-production model? I remember that. It’s ONE car tho…
Space-Safari@reddit
Yeah you're right. Fuel leak.
The 1.8 Megane also had a recall for fuel pump issues. These small capacity turbocharged euro 6 high horsepower engines get hot af. The engine bays are scorching hot. I love the packaging on the alpine but porsche has a more reliable product, they've been doing it for longer.
https://www.topgear.com/sites/default/files/images/news-article/carousel/2018/04/002cab603fd96a9f6147fde4cfe7b6e6/alp2_140.jpg?w=892&h=502
At least we could all see it's in fact all aluminum xD
The Alpine with a slightly bigger engine and a manual gb would be my dream car
spiketeam@reddit
Americans pay 73k for a 4 cylinder 2.0 cayman already. They also pay 65k for a 4 cylinder macan with zero character.
tiagojpg@reddit
The thing is a Porsche is a Porsche. Alpine doesn’t have the street cred to pull this off in an instant. If they gradually came in the market, they could probably get a thin slice of the small sports car market pie.
spiketeam@reddit
Thanks for making the point I was trying to make.
tiagojpg@reddit
”we’re all in this together!”
TheAntiAirGuy@reddit
Knowing the majority of roads in America, your average American car won't even have to do one singular sharp turn or longer high-speed curve in their whole life
This car isn't for them
There's a reason why we in Europe actually have people buying an Alpine A110, a Porsche 718 and other "entry level sports cars" with focus on agility and compactness while a Corvette, Camaro or Challenger or the unicorns over here.
gumol@reddit
have you seen our freeway interchanges?
have you seen our mountain roads?
TheAntiAirGuy@reddit
I think you still get my general drift?
Obviously I know you also have some magnificent country roads, obviously I know you too have long quick corners, but the average american road vs the average european one is definitly different
There's a reason the US was and still is famous for making land yachts, oversized SUVs and cars with more power than the chassis can handle if it weren't for the vast amount of very wide, straight roads and grid layout.
What I wanted to say is, dumbed down, the philosophy behind an Alpine A110 isn't something the majority of americans would appreciate. For the same reason your average european doesn't drive a big V8 RWD muscle car over here. We love handling, we love grip, you like power and the pureness of the car
gumol@reddit
I lived in Europe and in the US. "Average road" on both continents is a boring city road filled with traffic.
gollum80@reddit
No, shhh, Europe good America bad. Get with the program! /s
tiagojpg@reddit
I disagree on roads, I’ve got some friends in the States who enjoy some nice curvy roads. They are MUCH farther away for most of the population, sure. But they exist.
But in Europe yeah, we still buy the smaller sports cars much more than the bigger ones. People raised in small roads have a different mindset.
Dp04@reddit
You don’t know anything about the majority of American Roads….
We have hills and mountains here
BriarsandBrambles@reddit
You mean the Miata is backwards and turbocharged? Insert joke about France reversing at full speed here
tiagojpg@reddit
No speed limiter on reverse!!! (Idk really, just making a joke)
I’d say this is a baby Cayman, but you can get a stripped down Cayman for similar money. It still can’t beat the A110 in lightness.
BriarsandBrambles@reddit
I may be stupid but I feel like front engine RWD is the formula for cars under 3000lbs. To much weight in the back and it never loosens up.
tiagojpg@reddit
Having a 50:50 wd is theoretically the best. But to each their own as well, only a driver can tell its own experience and what they prefer.
mkdz@reddit
lol, right after you posted: https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1llbl33/we_review_an_alpine_a110_in_the_usa_it_makes_us/mzydm55/
tiagojpg@reddit
Yep, it’s a lotta Benjamins.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit
I really like it, but they would have to cut the MSRP by 1/3 for me to even consider it lol...
$75k when converted to USD.
strmshdow84@reddit
Yeah, I think they should be shooting for miata prices instead.
gumol@reddit
it has 40% more power than Miata and basically the same weight.
strmshdow84@reddit
And that's awesome, but who are you selling to? Weight numbers don't appeal to the common shopper and 300hp is not a lot these days. At 70k why not buy something used and put mods on it instead. There are too many cars that while not as light or as much of a driver's car, have gobs of power for American streets and spec sheets that this has to compete against.
It's enticing to me but at 70k I'd have to think hard about it. Also, doesn't have to be miata money, bushould def be less than ~65k.
gumol@reddit
Yep, and that's why lightweight cars are a dying breed. Even car enthusiast prefer heavier carts (see this thread, about preferring a much heavier Cayman).
because modding a car is not something I want to do. Modded cars have significant tradeoffs.
strmshdow84@reddit
They do, but it might entice people who like the weight but frown upon the HP number to make the jump.
tiagojpg@reddit
I can’t buy the “hp is too low for me” for a street car. You can’t legally do more than 75mph anywhere in the States, why do y’all need so much hp? Just so you can get on on-ramps quicker? It’s ridiculous.
(I love your garage by the way)
coffeebribesaccepted@reddit
If HP doesn't matter, then when not just save a bunch of money and buy a Miata?
strmshdow84@reddit
Look, I can agree that after a certain # depending on the platform, power is useless. But we have a lot of long straight roads and drag racing is still somewhat popular here, lets not include the stoplight derby. All I'm saying is once you hit a certain price range, and for me that's around the 70k and above level. Cylinder/hp snobbery becomes a thing. I personally care a little less about the hp aspect, but being able to add more if I need it and its becomes harder for me to 'settle' for a 4cyl at that price.
tiagojpg@reddit
I understand, you’re spending the GDP of a small island on a car, you’re allowed to expect some things out of it! Haha.
gumol@reddit
*85, but your point still stands
tiagojpg@reddit
Thank you for the correction! I was trying to remember some bit of news I saw before about some speed limits going up recently.
gimpwiz@reddit
The Miata is like 180hp, add 40% to hit 250hp, it's still not what the US market really wants for $70k.
gumol@reddit
Porsche Cayman is slower and somehow sells.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit
The Cayman has the Porsche brand to back it up. Nobody in the US knows what Alpine is... it also can come with a manual.
gimpwiz@reddit
The Cayman alone would not bring a brand to the US. The Cayman is also a known quantity from decades of good reputation, the Alpine is unknown here.
TheAntiAirGuy@reddit
That thing is literally nothing like a Miata, wtf
gothicserp3nt@reddit
People are fucking high in this thread
strmshdow84@reddit
Did I claim that it was? But it's a lightweight 2-seater coupe with low hp. I think it's gonna be cross-shopped with the Miata because they do similar things.
TheAntiAirGuy@reddit
Shooting for Miata prices for me also means being near Miata specs, which it is quite far away from.
But I think the discussion itself is kind of worthless because EU spec cars sold for € simply converted into USD isn't how the US car market works
US cars are regularly 25-35% cheaper, even if its a BMW for example. So with this equation we'd already be looking at ~49.000USD after tax if Alpine were established in the US
strmshdow84@reddit
I wouldn't go that far. I would definitely say that the base 718 is priced higher than it should be. Proven by Porsche having to bring back the 6cyl . Unfortunately once you get above 70k cylinder count/power definitely starts to matter more.
Simon676@reddit
You should compare it to a base Cayman and price will sound a lot more reasonable.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit
Porsche vs Alpine.
Simple.
Simon676@reddit
Alpine is a premium brand, and I'd argue their car is the better offering at that price.
TomcatZ06@reddit
I mean it costs basically the same as base Cayman, and seems to perform better. Adding the good stuff to the Cayman makes it much more expensive.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit
The Cayman is literally 2,000 lbs lighter and is a 2 seater Manual sports car.
TomcatZ06@reddit
I assume you didn't mean to write 2,000 labs, but either way, it's wrong. The Alpine is 500 lbs lighter than a manual Cayman and 600 lbs lighter than a PDK Cayman.
Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit
Your right, I thought you were referring to something else. Didn't know what thread I was on haha.
Sorry.
TomcatZ06@reddit
Haha I saw 2000 lbs and got really confused
gumol@reddit
you can cut the MSRP by a far bit: European prices have taxes included, US prices don't. And European taxes are high.
mintz41@reddit
The taxes on the price of a new car vary massively throughout Europe
gumol@reddit
is there any European country with taxes on a new car being less than 10%?
karankshah@reddit
Less power than a 718 for more cost and cheap feel inside. I appreciate that it's lightweight, but it's still mostly aluminum, not exactly super expensive CF.
This car would do numbers around a $50-$60K price range - it doesn't even need to be Miata pricing - but direct pricing conversion would be pretty difficult to justify.
takethispie@reddit
its also 300kg lighter
price in europe is with \~20% tax included
gumol@reddit
well, the good news is that it'd cost around $60k in the US.
takoriiin@reddit
When you can almost get what the Alpine is offering in a Miata for a couple grand less, the Alpine starts looking like a bad deal for 70K.
takethispie@reddit
not really no
TomcatZ06@reddit
To be fair, they also sung the praises of the ND3 Miata and still said this was better.
IditarodDays@reddit
Too bad it can’t be purchased by a sole citizen of the U.S.
mschiebold@reddit
2400lbs, 300hp
Sign me the fuck up, this is basically a Flyin Miata
Joooooooosh@reddit
i understand why they didn’t sell it in the states.
In the land of cheap gas and affordable V8’s it doesn’t make any sense. For the cost of them, Corvettes, Porsches, higher lever mustangs etc… are all available and it’s a difficult sell.
The car would have had a very dedicated and loyal following of 5 customers.
In the UK a true sportscar that uses a hot hatch engine and gets great MPG is actually an upside. If you don’t need practicality, an A110 is a great alternative to a premium hot hatch (since finance on them is so cheap)
In the US, a small economical engine in a sports car is mostly pointless. Running a much bigger engine is barely an issue.
KindledWanderer@reddit
The US has straight roads and very low speed limits. This car just doesn't make any sense there.
(It doesn't make much sense in Europe either, for that money I wouldn't want a 2L four-pot, not to mention 1.8L one. You can get a used 4.0 Cayman GTS for close to that kind of money.)
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
I would love America having own autobahn.
iloveturkey7@reddit
Did you only visit Disney world in Florida to think the US only has straight roads?
gumol@reddit
You can say exactly the same thing about Europe.
KindledWanderer@reddit
You definitely cannot.
I live in central Europe and I've been to nearly every European country and it's pretty rare to have a straight road for any sort of distance.
US highway speeds are only a bit higher on average than European local road speeds which often have sharp turns and width of 1.5 cars (it's group B out there).
Highways are usually 130 km/h (80 mph) but a lot of people (including myself) do 160 all day every day on those. I've gotten a fine ~3 times and it's been some years since last time.
gumol@reddit
I lived in central Europe for most of my life. Just because freeways have very slight curves doesn't mean it's actual corners. You can steer it with your small finger.
I don't think I encountered such roads regularly. Unless I went on a vacation to Northern Norway.
I guess my experience is wildly different than yours.
So basically the same as in the US. 10 km/h doesn't really make a difference. It's not like you need a sports car for 130 km/h, but you don't for 120.
People in the US also regularly speed. Enforcement can be very lax, depends where you live.
KindledWanderer@reddit
US isn't 75 mph all over, a lot of it is 65 and some even lower.
Most of it is that way pretty much everywhere. Just go anywhere but cities or highways and you'll have countryside rally tracks. I could throw a dart at the map of Europe and have a few nice countryside roads right next to it, from Portugal to Ukraine.
gumol@reddit
and Europe isn't 130 km/h all over.
7 states out of 50
Only Hawaii.
Same applies to the US. There's a shitload of wonderful curvy roads outside of population centers.
Overall my advice would be to stop trying to put a singular general label on the US and Europe. Both places are diverse.
KindledWanderer@reddit
BS like "everything is diverse" doesn't help anyone. Generalizations are useful, including the one in this thread.
gumol@reddit
Only if they are accurate.
dougsaucy@reddit
The US has straight roads and very low speed limits.>
You mean the Midwest, the coasts have lots of curvy mountainous back roads that are prefect for this thing. I live on the west coast and this thing is perfect for the backroads around me. I'd take this over a C8 or a base Cayman any day.
krombopulousnathan@reddit
You must be from a different continent than North America… because the USA is BIG. We have a shit ton of areas without straight roads. We have multiple mountain ranges
KindledWanderer@reddit
And there are some straight ones in Europe as well, yes, it is a generalization. A reasonable one for most people.
krombopulousnathan@reddit
I mean not really a fair generalization to say the US should not have a light weight sports car because roads. Like I would think about getting one of these. Missed my chance to get an Alfa 4c new
varezhka11@reddit
It's nice and all, but for the price I can get a brand new Miata *and* a Mustang GT. And I know I'll have more fun with the pair.
iloveturkey7@reddit
This video has really brought out some elitist Europeans. Wow.
7148675309@reddit
Mmmm except only the owner of the car or their spouse is allowed to drive it in the US - that’s one of the rules of non residents temporarily importing their cars to the US. Glad they didn’t have an accident….
shouldahadaflat4@reddit
You must be fun at parties
7148675309@reddit
Eh? Driving a car when it isn’t legal for you do to so - in a country as litigious as ours - is downright stupid.
You have an accident - and injure someone - you’re completely fucked because your insurance isn’t valid.
shouldahadaflat4@reddit
I understand why you wrote what you wrote but they are pros and they know the risk. It's not the same as handing over the keys to a 20 something in an unfamiliar area.
RobinVerhulstZ@reddit
if these ever dropped to 30k or less (used) i'd definitely be looking at getting one, not many options that are miata light but still comfortably seat a 6 foot+ tall dude with an engine smaller than 2l (tax reasons)
404nd2@reddit
It has a flat floor with a proper diffuser, OEM fixed bucket seat option, and is less than 100k. I’m certainly mad that I cant buy something this light with working aero in the US.
Keellas_Ahullford@reddit
I like the look of the A110 and I like smaller sport cars, but not for its price lol
Tight_Olive_2987@reddit
Double wishbone. Mid engine. Better transmission than most cars. A lot of things aren’t cheap
anynamesleft@reddit
The original had that thing where it looked good.
Solid_Enthusiasm550@reddit
Don't know that model, I did get to drive(work on) a B7 when it first came out. Only had 50 miles on it. I had it for 2 weeks and rove it more than the owner.🤣
The Only ...E65 I liked, Nice power. E65 was a P.O.S. car, almost as bad as the E53/E70s.🤮
Dp04@reddit
That’s Alpina not Alpine…
Solid_Enthusiasm550@reddit
My bad, LOL.
matmanx1@reddit
I’d shop one in a heartbeat but I live close to some ideal roads for this kind of car and I already have an EV for my daily.
exquisitopendejo@reddit
Good thing none of you want it because it isn't available anyway
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
Are you Zack?
Reprised-role@reddit
lol literally just turned on YouTube to have some lunch and saw this on the front page - clicked it so fast.