Business Class layouts
Posted by Pasha286@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 12 comments
So most of the widebodies used to have 2-3-2 Business Class layouts, some of the Emirates planes still have it, but majority of the airlines are moving to 1-2-1 Business class layout.
So my question is that isn't that less seats in the same space? I thought more seats = more money?
spacecadet2399@reddit
If more seats = more money, there's no reason to have a business class at all. Just cram as many people in and give them as little space as possible.
Obviously, to even have a business class, you've made a calculation based on market research and lots of other things that there are people you can attract who are willing to pay more for a more comfortable experience. And that you can make more money per square foot of floor space with the fares that you can charge for those bigger seats and extra legroom.
The exact same logic applies when adding more space to an existing cabin.
And of course, it's not a 1:1 loss of space when you lose a seat in a row. There are many different seat designs these days that are specifically intended to maximize the number of seats that can fit into a cabin while also providing more space to the passengers in that cabin.
Pasha286@reddit (OP)
"there's no reason to have a business class at all. Just cram as many people in and give them as little space as possible."
I hope you know Business class is a lot more expensive than Economy. They have to balance things out. Some airlines do have only economy also, it depends on every airline and their requirments.
I am talking about the airlines which had a different layout before and now a different one so I wanted to know how will the economics work when they have a few less business class seats which made money for them.
dabflies@reddit
Most 1-2-1 layouts are reverse herringbone where the seats are staggered on a diagonal. So they're using more width but less length, and they can fit more rows in than older 2-2-2 lie-flat designs where the pods are very long. Also as others said business class is competing for premium customers that will pay a premium for a better product. Direct aisle access for every seat is extremely desirable.
gdvlle@reddit
The seat configuration with 1-2-1 means the rows can be closer together, so it's not that drastic of a loss of seats.
If you look at the J cabins between the second door and the wing of these two Emirates 777s, the 2-3-2 has four rows, the 1-2-1 has seven rows:
https://www.aerolopa.com/ek-73w https://www.aerolopa.com/ek-77w-4cl-1
LYuen@reddit
The price differences of business class tickets between different airlines are much greater than economy tickets.
Pasha286@reddit (OP)
I know they are a lot more expensive than Economy tickets, with the old layout you had more seats in Business class, if you are removing 12 or 15 Business class seats then less money for the airlines compared to if you had those 12 more.
Yes for passengers it's a great thing, more space but for the Airliners they could have earned more from those 12 business class seats in the same space.
LYuen@reddit
A random example, London to Doha, British Airways and Qatar Airways. British Airways business class is average at best, while Qatar is probably the best in the world. British Airways sells a business class seat for £2300 while Qatar sells for £3500. Qatar can make much more money per seat to compensate the lower seat density.
Vast_Emergency@reddit
It isn't a case of more seats = more revenue if those seats aren't being filled. Covid really bought a major rethink in aircraft seating. Business Class, like all other classes, isn't just about seating density; if you're not getting pax in them then they're dead weight.
Given seats weren't being filled around Covid times airlines increased prices across the board and prices for Business Class have increased at a higher rate than normal ticket prices for most airlines. This is particularly the case with the introduction of Premium Economy offerings and the increase in density in Economy as well as some airlines dropping First Class all shifting demand. Additionally while Business Class always used to be very much, as the name suggested, used by business passengers this has changed and you get a lot more leisure passengers using it.
So if you're getting less pax using the class anyway but making the same amount of money due to the ticket increase you may as well reduce it to reduce your overheads at the same time. I've found it is usually pretty full these days so clearly the strategy is working.
upbeatelk2622@reddit
Why are you talking about business class like it's a slave ship situation?
If most rivals have moved to 1-2-1 and you're putting 2-3-2 in the same cabin, what does that communicate to the paying customer? What would you choose as a customer? Why are you worrying on behalf of corporate behemoths? They can take care of their bottom line just fine, don't be a fool. Most of them are already ripping us off, don't give them the idea to regress back to worse seat products lol.
Some airlines like Emirates and BA (old Club World) don't subscribe to this basic tenet of competition. They get away with worse products because they believe other facets of their offering more than make up for it. In Emirates' case, they probably have great faith that they're leaps and bounds better than Air India and PIA in those respective markets. In BA's case they believed the membership/mileage (avios) thing is a much greater pull than a better seat. They are both complacent in certain ways because they can afford to be.
Pasha286@reddit (OP)
Of course I would choose 1-2-1 as a customer, this is a great layout for passengers and more comfortable but I was just curious as they want to make the maximum money by putting whatever extra seats they can.
extratoastedcheezeit@reddit
Less seats, better experience, increased demand, higher margins. Business class has a high population of business travelers that can afford the premium. The math maths.
GuyOnTheInterweb@reddit
Turning it into first class seats, effectively.