Windows Phone was great, it had best UI (released in 2010 and was already better than modern android and liquid ass) and I hate MSFT for fucking it up.
I do not know if the flip phones / other non smart phones run a unix derivative, this is a kindof gotcha answer tho tbf, unix is undoubtedly god of phones now.
Well these days the number of tinkerers and hobbyists playing with really old hardware or doing their own thing would be so small that it rounds to 0 anyway on this type of scale, and any recently built retro phone is almost guaranteed to be running Android or at least Linux under the hood since they're all small, niche products with a relative surplus of processing power and markets too small to justify the custom driver and firmware development to run anything else
at least in the united states, older cell radio frequencies are being shut off, so it is tragically not actually at all possible to use those old Nokia bricks
I'm pretty sure there are still some people out there rocking a Symbian OS phone or an old BlackBerry. An old used car dealer in Florida with a BlackBerry and a disgusting, huge Invicta watch is definitely a thing.
Its not an issue you can really "fix" , you can make the greatest OS in the world (Not saying windows mobile was the greatest OS) but unless 3rd parties make software for it won't have any application support
And when 3rd parties refuse to port both their apps, but also prohibit any other 3rd party apps, from running on it and using your services, and thus leaving you to a user having to use a browser and not an app (looking at you Google), that will absolutely help kill a fledgling platform. Not saying that this was the only thing that killed WP, but I'm still not sure how that wasn't an antitrust violation to protect the Android ecosystem by making sure nothing Google worked natively on the device, at all.
There's gotta be at least a handful. The final iterations of windows phone were actually really good (i had a nokia with a truly amazing camera for its era)
A $500 non-flagship Android phone probably has more compute and storage than all the machines that ran Unix combined for the first 10 years of its life.
Crazy that just 20 years ago Nokia was still dominant and now both they and Windows are gone.
Infamously they got a CEO from MS, who pushed Windows Mobile, and down they went.
The Jolla phone came from ex-Nokia engineers afaik (so it's pronounced in the Finnish way, not with a Spanish J and ll or anything), but unfortunately that also couldn't compete. It still managed to become my first smartphone, though.
we need more options in the mobile operating system space. we used to have some cool stuff like meego, webos, firefox os, windows mobile, sailfish, etc. some of these continue to exist in various forms but they are far too niche or handicapped. we need phones where we can boot and install generic linux isos.
Runs the same exact OS as macOS which is Darwin Unix under the hood, I can attest it’s all still there with the exception of a few bridges for handling Driver loading via DriverKit.
It's funny that back in 80's and 90's, UNIX was associated with large mainframe computers* but now we see in nearly every embedded and mobile device out there.
These days its either Windows, Apple, or Linux. And Linux isn't one thing, it's a WIDE sweeping category of different systems. Hell, even Android really isn't one thing since each manufacturer tweaks it so much that sometimes a guide for one phone won't work for another. I use a Pixel 8 pro. Every time I help someone else with their Android phone, I find myself having to make adjustments. Maybe their settings are categorized the same. Maybe their control/notification center doesn't have the same UI/UX. Sometimes what a press and long hold do is reversed for some buttons. And every time I help someone with an android phone that's not using gesture controls, I have to re-learn what the icons at the bottom mean. Yet, we all refer to all these phones under the same umbrella: Android.
I only know about the switch - bsd misconception that it is based fully off of BSD. The only thing it took was the network stack, see wikipedia "Nintendo switch system software"
the networking stack in the Switch OS is derived at least in part from FreeBSD code. Nintendo's use of FreeBSD networking code is legal as it is made available under the permissive BSD licence, and not even particularly unusual
Android is Linux based. And using the term 'Linux' wont automatically mean 'Gnu/Linux' or just any other distro, but it means it uses the Linux kernel.
Linux isn’t technically an operating system its just a kernel. Anything userland built on top of that is still a linux based operating system including Android and all the ones you mentioned.
The problem is that the concept of linux as an OS is already well established, and it does not equate to "linux-based OS".
Android has a radically different ecosystem than what is popularly understood as linux, both in tools, environment and user experience, etc. Except for technical reasons, it doesn't really make sense to group them, or at least not much more than doing so with unix-based.
No, the concept of Linux as an OS is a misconception and does not actually exist. Android is Linux in the same way that GNU/Linux is; they both use the Linux kernel. That's all there is to it.
People like to parrot that "Android isn't Linux" because it doesn't align with their personal ideal of what Linux is about, and that's fair, but it doesn't make it not Linux.
But everyone expects a GNU-Userland if we mention Linux.
So alpine isn't a linux distro? Or openwrt? Or any other distro that uses musllibc and busybox?
old and massively patched Linux-Kernel
So like any linux distro?
Which distro runs a latest and unpatched kernel by default?
And therefore we name it, Android.
Just like fedora, ubuntu and openwrt?
Its pretty normal that distros have names and use their own names to prevent confusion (especially when its possible to run the distro with a non linux kernel. E.g. Debian/ GNU Hurd or Debian/kFreeBSD)
closed-source PlayServices
So just like ubuntu snap service?
Or nvidia drivers shipped by most distros?
It is okay to use short names but context must make it clear to everyone what is actually meant.
Exactly. Thats why linux is the Name of the kernel. And a linux distro is an operating system based on that kernel.
Thats why android, ubuntu, alpine, fedora and openwrt are linux distros.
yeah they do mainline all the stuff they can (that’s not proprietary) and their Android Common Kernels for Android 14 are on Linux 6.1… so it’s really not that old at all… their current release is on 6.12. People love to say it’s ‘not proper Linux’ because it’s so diverged but really they are just misinformed people saying this.
stfu. Linux is defined by the kernel that an OS uses. if it uses the linux kernel it is linux. What you are refering to is DESKTOP linux, which DOES NOT have to use GNU. Source: I used to run Chimera Linux which uses BSD Userland, also Alpine uses Busybox instead of GNU.
Desktop Linux is not the same as Mobile Linux. There have been attempts to run a more Desktop Linux like OS as mobile linux (using GNU userland etc)
Desktop Linux is not the same as ~~Mobile~~ Embedded Linux. FTFY.
What makes Android different is a certain amount of vertical integration typical for firmware development and not server/desktop Linux deployments. Some of which were due to NIH, copyleft licensing badly fit for corporate products or parts of the stack not being good enough for the intended purpose.
Android's Open Source project is NOT what is installed on most phones. Android ships with a proprietary version that is closed-source. Pixels, Samsungs, etc. do not ship with AOSP.
Just because some companies have forked Android and kept it closed source doesn't mean that Android itself is closed source, that makes no sense. There are open source Android operating systems available.
It's not that those companies have forked it, it's that Android has sold them a closed-source version of the software, and that is what is distributed on most major Android vendors.
This is the answer to your question "Wdym a lot less free it's open source" because you seem to operate under this weird idea that Android OS is open source across the board, and I'm telling you it's not. They have an Open Source project but that is largely not what is distributed amongst the vast majority of Android vendors.
Yeah, but when we're talking about the kernel rather than the OS family, we generally say, just the way you did, "the Linux kernel", rather than just Linux.
It's mostly just the GNU crowd that tries to insist that Linux is only a kernel—as if the topics here in /r/linux and tons of other Linux-related spaces were just about the kernel.
It is a distro (pedantically speaking). Because a distribution is a collection of software coupled with a kernel. Here it's the Linux kernel, so Android has to be a Linux distro. It's not GNU, but no one is claiming that it's a GNU/Linux distro.
what? android is just based on linux, it is not a linux distro like ubuntu.
Android uses recent Linux kernels and patches it for their use. Ubuntu uses a recent Linux kernel and patches it for their own use. The Linux Foundation, which administers the Linux trademark, says that Android is a Linux distribution.
Is it GNU/Linux? No. Is it GNU/systemd/Linux? No. But it's Linux with a different userland and desktop.
Unfortunately, despite Android using a Linux kernel, that is about all modern phones have in common with a real Linux distribution. All the layers manufacturers (and Google) put on top of that kernel are the opposite of what "free" and "trustworthy" means. Applications and services are full of trackers and privacy invading routines. So I don't see why we can feel proud or happy they "use" a Linux kernel; they basically took advantage of the Linux kernel to create a privacy nightmare.
As did Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Paypal, Reddit, and every other Web 2.0 startup. None of them would exist if they'd had to pay for Windows licenses with their VC runway.
You are right, but then you need to install applications. You can go 95% open source on applications, but that 5% most of us need for work or communications really kill most of the efforts to keep the phone "clean".
There are efforts like GrapheneOS that enhance permissions (network connections for example), but a phone has too much private information, and that is very attractive to companies, so if you need any commercial applications, all your efforts become quite useless.
Android has option for multiple users, you can also have multiple profiles on android 15, as it allows home, work and private space. I think GrapheneOS lets you set up even more, up to 32 profiles.
I use GrapheneOS on my phone, but most people don't. It also requires a Google Pixel phone...the irony. What I was trying to say in the original post is despite Linux being on 80% of phones, unless you REALLY go out of your way with a heavily modified Android system, open source applications etc. what you get is a system that is philosophically the opposite of what Linux means.
Where does your "about half" come from? Is the source for the 80% of the article wrong? (Sorry, really curious because 70-80% is pretty much what I always heard over the years so would be interested in knowing if that is wrong)
units in use is a different story. iPhone have much bigger life spans of support nad they are being repelled on higher volumes.
That would bring closer to what statista has that iPhones are \~28% and Android \~70%.
I meant half based on the photo above, although I did not noticed they were counting in $ and not in units, since the article speaks about units sold.
Statistica only can count devices that are on the internet, plenty of low end devices that are simply used as phones or use the "free internet" (some places limit to only facebook or other chat services) and wouldn't show up on statistics like statistica
although they may not be able to count in statista, there is no better way to count usage since the reseller phones are a big portion of the pie.
If you have any other metric that could show this better feel free to share.
Steve Jobs don't agree: and it's very Linux-like. Very much so. It's got Free BSD Unix which is the same as Linux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko4V3G4NqII&t=181s
BSDs are Unix. Mach is Unix. I even go as far as saying Linux is Unix. "Unix" isn't about a code linage but a philosophy. The original developers thought of Unix as a philosophy first and the was secondary. Getting back to Linux being Unix, Dennis Ritchie, developer of C and one of the OG Unix developers had this to say in 1999
I think the Linux phenomenon is quite delightful, because it draws so strongly on the basis that Unix provided. Linux seems to be among the healthiest of the direct Unix derivatives, though there are also the various BSD systems as well as the more official offerings from the workstation and mainframe manufacturers.
Personally I 100% agree that BSD is UNIX, especially considering it directly descends from Berkeley's implementation of UNIX for the VAX.
Not sure I'd agree on Linux or NeXTSTEP/Darwin being Unix, but I can also see the reasoning. I suppose by that logic Coherent was also Unix, since it was a clean-room reverse engineering of it. What about QNX? Or even more borderline, Plan 9?
If they adhere to the Unix philosophy, they are a Unix.
I don't agree that being a descendent from earlier Unices is what makes a modern OS "Unix". Due to the lawsuit from AT&T, none of the code in BSD is derived from the AT&T code. I'd postulate that none of the Unices that are direct descended from AT&T's System V (AIX, Solaris, OpenServer, UnixWare) have meaningful code left from System V.
Sorry, and I know someone will correct me, but Android != Linux.
If we are going to call the collection of GNU/Linux distros (or Musl lib c distros like Alpine/PostmarketOS) as "Linux", then I don't think it is ok to lump Android in as "Linux". It's just too different.
What you have left is the kernel, which is Linux through and through. Android is Linux. Android isn’t the only version that’s missing the GNU utilities. Linux is actually called GNU/Linux, we just refer to it as Linux. GNU refers to the tools ported from Unix and Linux is Linus Torvald’s kernel.
Many (most?) Android devices do not run mainline Linux, but I'll still give you that point. I'm aware there are efforts to bring it in closer with mainline but I don't pay very close attention to this.
But my point is still that if we are going to call operating systems like Arch or Ubuntu or Fedora or whatever as "Linux", then I don't think the same term should apply to Android. Either we should call those "GNU/Linux Distributions", or that we shouldn't call Android "Linux".
Honestly if people called it "Android Linux" I'd be fine with that name.
I've argued this a few times now online though and people generally disagree with me. Oh well :). Naming things is a hard problem in computer science, after all.
It’s simply a convention that we refer to all these linux flavors as Linux.
The reason nobody calls Linux GNU/Linux or Android Linux or Embedded Linux or whatever conversationally is that the GNU tools didn’t change the world, the Linux kernel did.
There were plenty of copy and rename and sort and search and whatever utilities on every os, but what we didn’t have was a free os that was powerful or unlimited enough to accomplish anything serious. Believe me we were all on the hunt.
So today insisting that Android isn’t Linux is just silly. It’s like paying up a rope.
Just because they named it Android doesn’t remove its dependency on Linux Torvalds and the Linux Group. Android uses the LTS Linux Kernel. Android is Linux. There’s no other conclusion possible.
I don't want to accuse you of cherry-picking a link that fits your narrative
But that's what you wanted me to do...
Interesting, I have to scroll past 20 links and go into the 2nd page to find that one.
Well I'll admit I didn't use Google, I use Startpage (it uses both Googles and Bings index if I remember correctly). Went through like 2 or 3 links before that one.
I don't want to accuse you of cherry-picking a link that fits your narrative
But that's what you wanted me to do...
No it's not lol where did you get that idea?
Well I'll admit I didn't use Google, I use Startpage (it uses both Googles and Bings index if I remember correctly). Went through like 2 or 3 links before that one.
And even if it was, you didn't follow instructions.
Regardless, looks like the bulk of the result agree with my number.
So... inaccurate telemetry metrics, error from this source, AI bs-ing articles nowadays, and possibly much more than I can think of... Are not a thing now?
The Linux kernel is the core part of the operating system that manages communication between hardware and software, while the operating system includes the kernel along with other components like user interfaces and utilities that allow users to interact with the computer. Essentially, the kernel handles low-level tasks, whereas the operating system provides a complete environment for users and applications.
The term Linux is often referred to a complete operating system that includes a shell (like bash) and command line and/or GUI tools to control the system. The technically correct term for this complete operating system is Linux distribution or simply Linux distro. Examples of popular Linux distributions include Ubuntu, Red Hat, and Debian, etc.
Linux operating system= Linux distribution aka Linux distro
if not "OS that uses the Linux kernel"?
Essentially, the kernel handles low-level tasks, whereas the operating system provides a complete environment for users and applications.
The kernel is the barebones ultility and does the following
The Process Scheduler: This kernel subsystem is responsible for fairly distributing the CPU time among all the processes running on the system simultaneously.
The Memory Management Unit: This kernel sub-unit is responsible for proper distribution of the memory resources among the various processes running on the system. The MMU does more than just simply provide separate virtual address spaces for each of the processes.
The Virtual File System: This subsystem is responsible for providing a unified interface to access stored data across different filesystems and physical storage media.
The Operating system of choice is essentially installed on top of the kernel.
An operating system (OS) is a software system that manages the computer that provides some services for computer programs and manages computer hardware and software. Basically, it is a communication or resource allocation between computer hardware and applications. It provides some services like managing input and output devices, managing file systems, providing UI (User Interface) and also managing computer memory. It also governs and executes all the programs.
Can you stop outputting ChatGPT paragraphs? You don't have to explain the concepts of kernels and distros to me, I was asking for a single definition of a term, holy fuck.
If what you mean "Linux operating system" is "Linux distribution", what do you mean by that?
And yes I unfortunately read what you puked there again, and you didn't answer that. In fact you just gave a recursive definition.
Linux operating system= Linux distribution aka Linux distro
In 2013 when I first posted this, oh boy, there was! I think especially what Google did in 2019 kinda reduced the debate unless wanting to be a extreme nerd about it.
I wish. Android is its own thing now. When you run a kernel from qualcomm, sure it's a "linux" kernel, but the majority of its lines of code are not upstream and rely on closed source userspace binaries.
The cheaper Minisforum V3 is a different model with lower specs (SE). I was interested in one, but had a few issues even ordering it and decided against it (due to repairability concerns).
Even if you’re willing to pay a premium, there aren’t good options. An iPad is a more attractive deal to me. Some people pointed to Asus z13 the last time I looked into it, but there’s no way I’ll spend >$2k with a manufacturer like asus.
Meanwhile compiling apps for linux is a single command, while doing so for Android requires the stupidest Studio app imaginable, mixed with SDKs and JDKs and WhateverDKs that don't want to work. Yeah pretty sure Android is Linux...
You don't actually need that, you "only" need the command line tools. That's how I do my daily Flutter Android development at work, no Android Studio installed anywhere on my PC ;)
This is only correct in the very technical sense. It's much more interesting to see how many devices run traditional Linux environments. Show me how many mobile devices I can support by making an app that uses traditional Wayland + Vulkan + Orca etc. Where I can distribute my app on common Linux package managers such as apt, snap and flatpak.
Theres no such thing as a “traditional linux environment .” Linux is just a kernel and its been implemented in so many different operating systems with wildly different userlands.
It's impressive but not really newsworthy. What it means? Linux kernel is popular and won't go anywhere in the near future? That's a given anyway considering how popular it is in other areas of the industry.
For everyday user it doesn't mean pretty much anything. Linux desktop operating systems will not become better (besides kernel) or popular because of the kernel popularity and no more third-party support will be given to these operating systems.
Heck, it's not entirely unreasonable to think that future Windows might even come shipped with Linux as it's kernel if MS figures out how to do it. That too would offer no benefit to other Linux distros, in fact might even make things worse since MS would surely make sure their stuff would not run anywhere else.
Yes i now noticed the sub it is posted in but i'll leave it here anyway.
JellyBeanUser@reddit
and nearly 100% powerd by Unix and Unix-like systems
PalowPower@reddit
I think it’s safe to assume not nearly, but 100% run Unix(-like). There’s not a single soul on earth that’s using a Windows phone.
Xfgjwpkqmx@reddit
At least voluntarily.
beebeeep@reddit
Windows Phone was great, it had best UI (released in 2010 and was already better than modern android and liquid ass) and I hate MSFT for fucking it up.
TheShyOne999@reddit
Yup, it was really good, bought one then sold fast as there were no app support.
Microsoft had deep enough pockets to lure app developers for it. They gave up on it too quickly.
I could have keep it if they allowed installing 3th party apps from other sources...
MayorAg@reddit
The software was crazy optimised. I remember playing Dream League Soccer on my dad‘s Windows phone and another Android.
On paper the Windows phone was worse but it worked so much better.
It’s sad they scrapped it.
Coffee_Ops@reddit
They couldn't get Google maps or Gmail on it which sunk it.
MainMore691@reddit
Samsungs with windows mobile was good
ldcrafter@reddit
for plasma mobile was there a project to get that look and feel but it did not use the home screen api and was just a app ontop.
Tunfisch@reddit
The only thing Microsoft can do well is UI.
YTriom1@reddit
Average Micro$oft decision
Landscape4737@reddit
There were multiple incompatible Windows mobile versions, this helped it fail.
Realistic_Bee_5230@reddit
I do not know if the flip phones / other non smart phones run a unix derivative, this is a kindof gotcha answer tho tbf, unix is undoubtedly god of phones now.
spicybright@reddit
Yeah, flip phones usually ran a custom OS by the carrier using J2ME, java 2 micro edition. People definitely still use flip phones tho.
Either way it's silly to say 100%. How could there not be some person out there running something not unix?
Dangerous-Report8517@reddit
Well these days the number of tinkerers and hobbyists playing with really old hardware or doing their own thing would be so small that it rounds to 0 anyway on this type of scale, and any recently built retro phone is almost guaranteed to be running Android or at least Linux under the hood since they're all small, niche products with a relative surplus of processing power and markets too small to justify the custom driver and firmware development to run anything else
randylush@reddit
at least in the united states, older cell radio frequencies are being shut off, so it is tragically not actually at all possible to use those old Nokia bricks
spicybright@reddit
Which really is unfortunate! The snake game went so hard back in the day.
Interestingly, nokia recently made a line of retro style phones with modern tech so at least you can pretend you're using the brick.
https://www.techradar.com/phones/nokia-phones/3-new-retro-inspired-nokia-phones-will-have-you-rocking-out-like-its-the-2000s
SexBobomb@reddit
a lot but not all of them are on android now
Gent_Kyoki@reddit
In some third world countries people still use non-smart phones
pannon-pixie@reddit
I'm pretty sure there are still some people out there rocking a Symbian OS phone or an old BlackBerry. An old used car dealer in Florida with a BlackBerry and a disgusting, huge Invicta watch is definitely a thing.
ldcrafter@reddit
i do still have a lumia 950 but it does run Android 11 so yeah you probably right
Baardi@reddit
There's not just Windows-phones, but also dumb-phone. Idk what operTing system are on those
randomcharacters859@reddit
Windows phone still exists? Shocked
AttilaLeChinchilla@reddit
I do, for some tasks. :D
Outside_Scientist365@reddit
Did they ever fix their issue of never having common apps? I had a Windows phone in 2015 or so and that was very frustrating.
SirGlass@reddit
Its not an issue you can really "fix" , you can make the greatest OS in the world (Not saying windows mobile was the greatest OS) but unless 3rd parties make software for it won't have any application support
cluberti@reddit
And when 3rd parties refuse to port both their apps, but also prohibit any other 3rd party apps, from running on it and using your services, and thus leaving you to a user having to use a browser and not an app (looking at you Google), that will absolutely help kill a fledgling platform. Not saying that this was the only thing that killed WP, but I'm still not sure how that wasn't an antitrust violation to protect the Android ecosystem by making sure nothing Google worked natively on the device, at all.
Tiernoon@reddit
It's been like 9 years since the last windows phone. It died exactly as your left it.
randylush@reddit
huh?
PalowPower@reddit
Now I’m curious. What would be the use case for a Windows Phone?
hadrabap@reddit
Even malware doesn't run on it these days except the pre-installed one.
UOL_Cerberus@reddit
Underrated comment.
Does doom work?
kurdo_kolene@reddit
Are you kidding? Doom runs on literal potatoes
UOL_Cerberus@reddit
Isn't it obvious that I'm kidding? How could I make it more obvious xD
munukutla@reddit
You know it does.
UOL_Cerberus@reddit
I assume...but I don't know...
And it's still a Microsoft product... wouldn't take any bets on them
technobrendo@reddit
You don't write malware for someone with 0% market share
primalbluewolf@reddit
Exclusively for use by unixphobes.
jinekLESNIK@reddit
Some people just love it so much they still build applications and hacking it.
allocallocalloc@reddit
Debugging for time travel releases.
Bgf14@reddit
And still windows has a lot of stolen code from the linux kernel! So basically almost every device on the planet is unix powered!
ethicalhumanbeing@reddit
What do you mean? I’m using Palm OS.
Unlikely_Painting933@reddit
texting to you from one :)
PsyOmega@reddit
There's gotta be at least a handful. The final iterations of windows phone were actually really good (i had a nokia with a truly amazing camera for its era)
Hosein_Lavaei@reddit
I don't know about old Nokia phones but they are very popular in Iran
Ileana_llama@reddit
funny how a system architecture designed for big ass machines is currently being used in pocket devices
solve-for-x@reddit
A $500 non-flagship Android phone probably has more compute and storage than all the machines that ran Unix combined for the first 10 years of its life.
OkMemeTranslator@reddit
Google estimates amount of smart phones to be somewhere around 8 billion, with some news claiming more smart phones than people to exist.
Even if there were a million people running some non Android or iOS device, that would still mean 99.99% of mobile phones running Unix.
syklemil@reddit
Infamously they got a CEO from MS, who pushed Windows Mobile, and down they went.
The Jolla phone came from ex-Nokia engineers afaik (so it's pronounced in the Finnish way, not with a Spanish J and ll or anything), but unfortunately that also couldn't compete. It still managed to become my first smartphone, though.
mishrashutosh@reddit
we need more options in the mobile operating system space. we used to have some cool stuff like meego, webos, firefox os, windows mobile, sailfish, etc. some of these continue to exist in various forms but they are far too niche or handicapped. we need phones where we can boot and install generic linux isos.
The_Bic_Pen@reddit
Is iOS actually unix-like?
MrCorporateEvents@reddit
FreeBSD to be specific.
FrequentWin4261@reddit
Yes, you can even install .debs on a jailbroken device
MarzipanEven7336@reddit
Runs the same exact OS as macOS which is Darwin Unix under the hood, I can attest it’s all still there with the exception of a few bridges for handling Driver loading via DriverKit.
ScratchHacker69@reddit
Yes it is
DesiOtaku@reddit
It's funny that back in 80's and 90's, UNIX was associated with large mainframe computers* but now we see in nearly every embedded and mobile device out there.
*It still is, but it used to be too
Damaniel2@reddit
Pretty much everything non-iPhone (Android, KaiOS, Ubuntu Touch, etc) is running Linux these days, so I'm not surprised it's so high.
ReidenLightman@reddit
These days its either Windows, Apple, or Linux. And Linux isn't one thing, it's a WIDE sweeping category of different systems. Hell, even Android really isn't one thing since each manufacturer tweaks it so much that sometimes a guide for one phone won't work for another. I use a Pixel 8 pro. Every time I help someone else with their Android phone, I find myself having to make adjustments. Maybe their settings are categorized the same. Maybe their control/notification center doesn't have the same UI/UX. Sometimes what a press and long hold do is reversed for some buttons. And every time I help someone with an android phone that's not using gesture controls, I have to re-learn what the icons at the bottom mean. Yet, we all refer to all these phones under the same umbrella: Android.
Sky-is-here@reddit
As a person that only uses Xiaomi I can confirm MIUI is extremely different to other androids lmao
Some_Cod_47@reddit
click/karma bait is why. this is captain obvious post
AntiGrieferGames@reddit
It was always popular when android was popular since begining of 2010s
TheKeyboardChan@reddit
No, they are powered and controlled by Google.
Rad_In_07@reddit
maybe we could call it "powered by linux kernel"
The_Bic_Pen@reddit
Unfortunately, this number will likely decrease as Chinese brands switch away from Android. See HarmonyOS for example
vince1171@reddit
I was about to argue HarmonyOS is based on Android, but just discovered they removed all Android code, and now has it's own microkernel...
Damn...
Reyynerp@reddit
harmonyos does not use linux, but judging from the terminal i'd say it's unix-based or at least POSIX compliant somewhat
get_homebrewed@reddit
Which does also have parts of the Linux kernel, some versions just straight up use it.
Greenlit_Hightower@reddit
A bit self-celebratory, right? Counting Android as Linux, what about the actual Linux smartphones (Ubuntu Touch, Sailfish OS etc.)?
Damaniel2@reddit
Android is still Linux, no matter what they put on top of it.
'Actual' Linux smartphones are still just UIs on top of Linux, same as Android.
YouRock96@reddit
Then let's count the number of FreeBSD users (Sony Playstation, Nintendo Switch)!
Rubadubrix@reddit
switch doesn't use BSD, it just has some elements that were taken from BSD code iirc
YouRock96@reddit
Same as Android infrastructure is not a Linux?
Rubadubrix@reddit
I only know about the switch - bsd misconception that it is based fully off of BSD. The only thing it took was the network stack, see wikipedia "Nintendo switch system software"
Scoutron@reddit
BSD is Unix-like, not Linux
kevkevverson@reddit
Think they were making a different point
Scoutron@reddit
Yep you’re right it was too early for Reddit arguments
Historical-Bar-305@reddit
You forgot about ios and macOS (its synergy of Darvin and freeBSD).
YouRock96@reddit
Not really, from FreeBSD it uses a very small piece and the Mach kernel
309_Electronics@reddit
Android is Linux based. And using the term 'Linux' wont automatically mean 'Gnu/Linux' or just any other distro, but it means it uses the Linux kernel.
degoba@reddit
Linux isn’t technically an operating system its just a kernel. Anything userland built on top of that is still a linux based operating system including Android and all the ones you mentioned.
Fit_Flower_8982@reddit
The problem is that the concept of linux as an OS is already well established, and it does not equate to "linux-based OS".
Android has a radically different ecosystem than what is popularly understood as linux, both in tools, environment and user experience, etc. Except for technical reasons, it doesn't really make sense to group them, or at least not much more than doing so with unix-based.
MeatSafeMurderer@reddit
No, the concept of Linux as an OS is a misconception and does not actually exist. Android is Linux in the same way that GNU/Linux is; they both use the Linux kernel. That's all there is to it.
People like to parrot that "Android isn't Linux" because it doesn't align with their personal ideal of what Linux is about, and that's fair, but it doesn't make it not Linux.
OkNewspaper6271@reddit
Android *IS* linux in the exact same way Ubuntu and such are, its just a lot less free
Hosein_Lavaei@reddit
Its not about its not Linux. Its about its much closer eco system (exclude aosp) and much less Unix philosophy
gloriousPurpose33@reddit
These Linux subs and articles have a TON of trouble with this.
nonesense_user@reddit
It is not.
We use the term Linux for GNU/Linux. Despite that makes RMS sad. But everyone expects a GNU-Userland if we mention Linux.
Android is Google/Linux. With Google-Userland, closed-source PlayServices and an old and massively patched Linux-Kernel.
And therefore we name it, Android.
chrisoboe@reddit
So alpine isn't a linux distro? Or openwrt? Or any other distro that uses musllibc and busybox?
So like any linux distro?
Which distro runs a latest and unpatched kernel by default?
Just like fedora, ubuntu and openwrt? Its pretty normal that distros have names and use their own names to prevent confusion (especially when its possible to run the distro with a non linux kernel. E.g. Debian/ GNU Hurd or Debian/kFreeBSD)
So just like ubuntu snap service? Or nvidia drivers shipped by most distros?
Exactly. Thats why linux is the Name of the kernel. And a linux distro is an operating system based on that kernel. Thats why android, ubuntu, alpine, fedora and openwrt are linux distros.
not_some_username@reddit
Doesn’t Google send patch to the Linux kernel from android too ?
eidetic0@reddit
yeah they do mainline all the stuff they can (that’s not proprietary) and their Android Common Kernels for Android 14 are on Linux 6.1… so it’s really not that old at all… their current release is on 6.12. People love to say it’s ‘not proper Linux’ because it’s so diverged but really they are just misinformed people saying this.
munukutla@reddit
“What everyone expects” is not the same as “what it is”.
Android is Linux.
Rocktopod@reddit
When you're talking about natural language it kind of is.
Realistic_Bee_5230@reddit
stfu. Linux is defined by the kernel that an OS uses. if it uses the linux kernel it is linux. What you are refering to is DESKTOP linux, which DOES NOT have to use GNU. Source: I used to run Chimera Linux which uses BSD Userland, also Alpine uses Busybox instead of GNU.
Desktop Linux is not the same as Mobile Linux. There have been attempts to run a more Desktop Linux like OS as mobile linux (using GNU userland etc)
Odd-Possession-4276@reddit
Desktop Linux is not the same as ~~Mobile~~ Embedded Linux. FTFY.
What makes Android different is a certain amount of vertical integration typical for firmware development and not server/desktop Linux deployments. Some of which were due to NIH, copyleft licensing badly fit for corporate products or parts of the stack not being good enough for the intended purpose.
fractalfocuser@reddit
TBF trying to say Android isn't Linux is the same as Stallman saying "iT's GnU/LiNuX"
You both can go eat your toenails while you split hairs lol
FoxFXMD@reddit
Wdym a lot less free it's open source
ebb_omega@reddit
the kernel is, the app ecosystem is not.
Just because you're running software on a linux kernel doesn't mean that software has to be OSS.
FoxFXMD@reddit
Linux kernel is open source and the android operating system is open source. I have no idea what you mean by "app ecosystem"
Ok??? How is that relevant?
ebb_omega@reddit
Android's Open Source project is NOT what is installed on most phones. Android ships with a proprietary version that is closed-source. Pixels, Samsungs, etc. do not ship with AOSP.
FoxFXMD@reddit
Just because some companies have forked Android and kept it closed source doesn't mean that Android itself is closed source, that makes no sense. There are open source Android operating systems available.
ebb_omega@reddit
It's not that those companies have forked it, it's that Android has sold them a closed-source version of the software, and that is what is distributed on most major Android vendors.
This is the answer to your question "Wdym a lot less free it's open source" because you seem to operate under this weird idea that Android OS is open source across the board, and I'm telling you it's not. They have an Open Source project but that is largely not what is distributed amongst the vast majority of Android vendors.
FoxFXMD@reddit
It's not? I thought all Android operating systems were forked from the open source project, my bad
Fit-Requirement7418@reddit
what? android is just based on linux, it is not a linux distro like ubuntu.
navi0540@reddit
Title says "over 80% of all smartphones are powered by Linux"
Android runs the Linux kernel.
syklemil@reddit
Yeah, but when we're talking about the kernel rather than the OS family, we generally say, just the way you did, "the Linux kernel", rather than just Linux.
It's mostly just the GNU crowd that tries to insist that Linux is only a kernel—as if the topics here in /r/linux and tons of other Linux-related spaces were just about the kernel.
Candid_Problem_1244@reddit
It's not a Linux distro but it's powered by Linux as the title said
UNF0RM4TT3D@reddit
It is a distro (pedantically speaking). Because a distribution is a collection of software coupled with a kernel. Here it's the Linux kernel, so Android has to be a Linux distro. It's not GNU, but no one is claiming that it's a GNU/Linux distro.
salyavin@reddit
Similarly Chromebooks are becoming significant on the desktop.
chrisoboe@reddit
Of course its a linux distro. Why shouldn't it be one?
mrtruthiness@reddit
Android uses recent Linux kernels and patches it for their use. Ubuntu uses a recent Linux kernel and patches it for their own use. The Linux Foundation, which administers the Linux trademark, says that Android is a Linux distribution.
Is it GNU/Linux? No. Is it GNU/systemd/Linux? No. But it's Linux with a different userland and desktop.
neuropsycho@reddit
It is Linux, just not GNU/Linux if that's what you mean.
Fohqul@reddit
Even then we can't be excluding like Alpine, I think most would still consider that a distro in the same sense as Ubuntu
OkNewspaper6271@reddit
Google real quick what a linux distro is
s_ngularity@reddit
Linux is just the kernel. If it runs the Linux kernel, it is running Linux
The_real_bandito@reddit
I’ll be surprised if the number is large enough to be able to be put on a graph
chrisoboe@reddit
So a distro needs a minimum amount of bugs and barely hardware support to count as actual linux?
Android is a linux distro just like ubuntu or sailfish. Just because it doesn't use wayland or x doesn't make it less linux.
Green_Argument5154@reddit
But they dont have blue bubbles or facetime
kevkevverson@reddit
Does this sub have anything other than circlejerk posts?
firedrakes@reddit
Nope sadly
dawsers@reddit
Unfortunately, despite Android using a Linux kernel, that is about all modern phones have in common with a real Linux distribution. All the layers manufacturers (and Google) put on top of that kernel are the opposite of what "free" and "trustworthy" means. Applications and services are full of trackers and privacy invading routines. So I don't see why we can feel proud or happy they "use" a Linux kernel; they basically took advantage of the Linux kernel to create a privacy nightmare.
MeatSafeMurderer@reddit
I've said it once, I'll say it again; the only bit of "Linux" that is Linux is the kernel. The rest is GNU and together they form GNU/Linux.
Android is just as much Linux as GNU/Linux is.
Kiwithegaylord@reddit
It’s linux, but not GNU/Linux. There’s a reason the term exists
Equivalent_Spell7193@reddit
If you have a recent-ish Google Pixel model I highly recommend Graphene OS. It solves all these problems, and it’s just as useable as Android.
__ali1234__@reddit
As did Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Paypal, Reddit, and every other Web 2.0 startup. None of them would exist if they'd had to pay for Windows licenses with their VC runway.
Gugalcrom123@reddit
It can't even install other executables. There are no executables in Android; it is a Java OS.
KnowZeroX@reddit
At the very least AOSP is open source which at least makes it possible to have stuff like linageos.
But ARM in general makes things more restrictive
fenrir245@reddit
ARM is not the issue, bullshit like “Play Integrity” is.
MairusuPawa@reddit
ARM is not quite the issue, locked bootloaders is.
MrCorporateEvents@reddit
From what I understand ARM licensing isn’t as good for open source as RISC-V could potentially be due to licensing.
fenrir245@reddit
That’s for CPU manufacturing. I’m just talking about the software stack.
x86 is much more closed than ARM even, yet things are still a bit better over here.
dawsers@reddit
You are right, but then you need to install applications. You can go 95% open source on applications, but that 5% most of us need for work or communications really kill most of the efforts to keep the phone "clean".
There are efforts like GrapheneOS that enhance permissions (network connections for example), but a phone has too much private information, and that is very attractive to companies, so if you need any commercial applications, all your efforts become quite useless.
KnowZeroX@reddit
Android has option for multiple users, you can also have multiple profiles on android 15, as it allows home, work and private space. I think GrapheneOS lets you set up even more, up to 32 profiles.
dawsers@reddit
I use GrapheneOS on my phone, but most people don't. It also requires a Google Pixel phone...the irony. What I was trying to say in the original post is despite Linux being on 80% of phones, unless you REALLY go out of your way with a heavily modified Android system, open source applications etc. what you get is a system that is philosophically the opposite of what Linux means.
MammothPosition660@reddit
You said what goes unsaid, because it is true, and some people don't like to hear it.
SilentBiggy30@reddit
They ALL run on linux / unix....never seen other os on a smartphone...except for the windows phone but it was crappy as hell
NoleMercy05@reddit
79% are Google Play Store dependent.
Leaves a nasty burn
leaflock7@reddit
about half run Android which since it is based on the Linux kernel you can say this, but iOS is not
AiwendilH@reddit
Where does your "about half" come from? Is the source for the 80% of the article wrong? (Sorry, really curious because 70-80% is pretty much what I always heard over the years so would be interested in knowing if that is wrong)
leaflock7@reddit
units in use is a different story. iPhone have much bigger life spans of support nad they are being repelled on higher volumes.
That would bring closer to what statista has that iPhones are \~28% and Android \~70%.
I meant half based on the photo above, although I did not noticed they were counting in $ and not in units, since the article speaks about units sold.
KnowZeroX@reddit
Statistica only can count devices that are on the internet, plenty of low end devices that are simply used as phones or use the "free internet" (some places limit to only facebook or other chat services) and wouldn't show up on statistics like statistica
leaflock7@reddit
although they may not be able to count in statista, there is no better way to count usage since the reseller phones are a big portion of the pie.
If you have any other metric that could show this better feel free to share.
AiwendilH@reddit
Ah, I see...and yes, now that you mention it that graphics in the article is...not the best choice for the headline.
kapijawastaken@reddit
darwin is not linux
__konrad@reddit
JellyBeanUser@reddit
It's not Linux, but Unix
thunderbird32@reddit
Darwin is UNIX™ because the Open Group has certified it such, but the XNU kernel is Mach with some FreeBSD elements.
Berobad@reddit
Technically, only MacOS is certified UNIX, just Darwin isn't.
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/certificates/1221p.pdf
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
deja_geek@reddit
BSDs are Unix. Mach is Unix. I even go as far as saying Linux is Unix. "Unix" isn't about a code linage but a philosophy. The original developers thought of Unix as a philosophy first and the was secondary. Getting back to Linux being Unix, Dennis Ritchie, developer of C and one of the OG Unix developers had this to say in 1999
If it adheres to the Unix philosophy, it's Unix.
thunderbird32@reddit
Personally I 100% agree that BSD is UNIX, especially considering it directly descends from Berkeley's implementation of UNIX for the VAX.
Not sure I'd agree on Linux or NeXTSTEP/Darwin being Unix, but I can also see the reasoning. I suppose by that logic Coherent was also Unix, since it was a clean-room reverse engineering of it. What about QNX? Or even more borderline, Plan 9?
deja_geek@reddit
If they adhere to the Unix philosophy, they are a Unix.
I don't agree that being a descendent from earlier Unices is what makes a modern OS "Unix". Due to the lawsuit from AT&T, none of the code in BSD is derived from the AT&T code. I'd postulate that none of the Unices that are direct descended from AT&T's System V (AIX, Solaris, OpenServer, UnixWare) have meaningful code left from System V.
Odd-Possession-4276@reddit
XNU is not Unix
MPnoir@reddit
Nobody claimed it was?
Rubadubrix@reddit
it is Unix certified as far as I know
FeliciaGLXi@reddit
That makes it Unix, not Linux
Rubadubrix@reddit
oh sorry I thought the comment was "darwin is not Unix"
kapijawastaken@reddit
op did
kapijawastaken@reddit
nvm i misread
solid_reign@reddit
Disll
pr0fic1ency@reddit
This is what GNU/Linux vs appropriation of Linux (Android) looks like.
Keely369@reddit
Android isn't Linux in my book.
Emanu1674@reddit
That's a fun way of saying that most people don't use iPhones
svxae@reddit
MS had lost this game so hard...and we're better for it.
MairusuPawa@reddit
A bastardized Linux, mind you.
santas@reddit
Sorry, and I know someone will correct me, but Android != Linux.
If we are going to call the collection of GNU/Linux distros (or Musl lib c distros like Alpine/PostmarketOS) as "Linux", then I don't think it is ok to lump Android in as "Linux". It's just too different.
elijuicyjones@reddit
Linux isn’t as small and limited as you think. Android is indeed Linux just like MacOS is still Unix regardless of what it looks like on the surface.
santas@reddit
I don't think of it as small or limited.
I just think that one enough pieces of GNU/Linux are removed, what you have left is no longer Linux and certainly not the GNU userspace we all love.
Ship of Thesues sort of thing.
elijuicyjones@reddit
What you have left is the kernel, which is Linux through and through. Android is Linux. Android isn’t the only version that’s missing the GNU utilities. Linux is actually called GNU/Linux, we just refer to it as Linux. GNU refers to the tools ported from Unix and Linux is Linus Torvald’s kernel.
santas@reddit
Many (most?) Android devices do not run mainline Linux, but I'll still give you that point. I'm aware there are efforts to bring it in closer with mainline but I don't pay very close attention to this.
But my point is still that if we are going to call operating systems like Arch or Ubuntu or Fedora or whatever as "Linux", then I don't think the same term should apply to Android. Either we should call those "GNU/Linux Distributions", or that we shouldn't call Android "Linux".
Honestly if people called it "Android Linux" I'd be fine with that name.
I've argued this a few times now online though and people generally disagree with me. Oh well :). Naming things is a hard problem in computer science, after all.
elijuicyjones@reddit
It’s simply a convention that we refer to all these linux flavors as Linux.
The reason nobody calls Linux GNU/Linux or Android Linux or Embedded Linux or whatever conversationally is that the GNU tools didn’t change the world, the Linux kernel did.
There were plenty of copy and rename and sort and search and whatever utilities on every os, but what we didn’t have was a free os that was powerful or unlimited enough to accomplish anything serious. Believe me we were all on the hunt.
So today insisting that Android isn’t Linux is just silly. It’s like paying up a rope.
Just because they named it Android doesn’t remove its dependency on Linux Torvalds and the Linux Group. Android uses the LTS Linux Kernel. Android is Linux. There’s no other conclusion possible.
engg_unknown@reddit
But sadly we don't have true linux phones.
santas@reddit
Yes, there are multiple options here nowadays for phones running GNU/Linux.
studog-reddit@reddit
Like?
santas@reddit
...and so on
studog-reddit@reddit
Thanks, Kind Internet Stranger!
The only one of these I'd heard of before is the pinephone. Lots of new things to look into.
Baardi@reddit
Android is based on Linux, but it's not Linux.
bigdaddybigboots@reddit
It's kind of crazy how Linux is the OS on the vast majority of computers in the world and most people don't even know what it is.
fat_cock_freddy@reddit
Bull shit, iPhones market share is >20%.
FoxFXMD@reddit
Source?
fat_cock_freddy@reddit
Google
iphone market shareand pick whichever source you likeFoxFXMD@reddit
https://www.investopedia.com/apple-iphone-sales-fall-5-percent-in-q4-as-global-market-share-slips-8773280
I like this one
fat_cock_freddy@reddit
Interesting, I have to scroll past 20 links and go into the 2nd page to find that one.
Whereas almost all of the higher-ranking results, such as:
Put iPhone around 25-29%.
I don't want to accuse you of cherry-picking a link that fits your narrative, but that's what it looks like you did.
FoxFXMD@reddit
But that's what you wanted me to do...
Well I'll admit I didn't use Google, I use Startpage (it uses both Googles and Bings index if I remember correctly). Went through like 2 or 3 links before that one.
fat_cock_freddy@reddit
No it's not lol where did you get that idea?
And even if it was, you didn't follow instructions.
Regardless, looks like the bulk of the result agree with my number.
FoxFXMD@reddit
I liked the one that had less than 20%
It's not that serious
fat_cock_freddy@reddit
Then why are you making a big deal out of it?
FoxFXMD@reddit
Ah fuck, I've failed the test
Technology_Labs@reddit
So... inaccurate telemetry metrics, error from this source, AI bs-ing articles nowadays, and possibly much more than I can think of... Are not a thing now?
amiibohunter2015@reddit
While android devices rely on linuxes kernel that doesn't mean you're running a Linux operating system. There's a difference.
HandwashHumiliate666@reddit
What? lmao
What do you mean by "Linux operating system" then, if not "OS that uses the Linux kernel"?
amiibohunter2015@reddit
There's a difference
The Linux kernel is the core part of the operating system that manages communication between hardware and software, while the operating system includes the kernel along with other components like user interfaces and utilities that allow users to interact with the computer. Essentially, the kernel handles low-level tasks, whereas the operating system provides a complete environment for users and applications.
The term Linux is often referred to a complete operating system that includes a shell (like bash) and command line and/or GUI tools to control the system. The technically correct term for this complete operating system is Linux distribution or simply Linux distro. Examples of popular Linux distributions include Ubuntu, Red Hat, and Debian, etc.
Distro=variant Linux operating system
HandwashHumiliate666@reddit
As you somehow managed to dodge my question while taking 17 paragraphs to reply, I'll ask again:
What do you mean by "Linux operating system", if not "OS that uses the Linux kernel"?
amiibohunter2015@reddit
You didn't read did you?
It's explained in the comment.
HandwashHumiliate666@reddit
I did read all of that unfortunately.
You didn't answer my question.
What do you mean by "Linux operating system", if not "OS that uses the Linux kernel"?
Answer without rambling for 2 hours.
amiibohunter2015@reddit
Linux operating system= Linux distribution aka Linux distro
if not "OS that uses the Linux kernel"?
Essentially, the kernel handles low-level tasks, whereas the operating system provides a complete environment for users and applications.
The kernel is the barebones ultility and does the following
The Process Scheduler: This kernel subsystem is responsible for fairly distributing the CPU time among all the processes running on the system simultaneously. The Memory Management Unit: This kernel sub-unit is responsible for proper distribution of the memory resources among the various processes running on the system. The MMU does more than just simply provide separate virtual address spaces for each of the processes. The Virtual File System: This subsystem is responsible for providing a unified interface to access stored data across different filesystems and physical storage media.
The Operating system of choice is essentially installed on top of the kernel.
An operating system (OS) is a software system that manages the computer that provides some services for computer programs and manages computer hardware and software. Basically, it is a communication or resource allocation between computer hardware and applications. It provides some services like managing input and output devices, managing file systems, providing UI (User Interface) and also managing computer memory. It also governs and executes all the programs.
HandwashHumiliate666@reddit
Can you stop outputting ChatGPT paragraphs? You don't have to explain the concepts of kernels and distros to me, I was asking for a single definition of a term, holy fuck.
If what you mean "Linux operating system" is "Linux distribution", what do you mean by that?
And yes I unfortunately read what you puked there again, and you didn't answer that. In fact you just gave a recursive definition.
So, what do you mean by Linux distribution?
alannotwalker@reddit
thank you linus
formegadriverscustom@reddit
I went here expecting a lot of angry comments from the "no true Scotsman" people. Was not disappointed :)
undrwater@reddit
Your and me both.
Cheers! clink!
Unprotectedtxt@reddit
In 2013 when I first posted this, oh boy, there was! I think especially what Google did in 2019 kinda reduced the debate unless wanting to be a extreme nerd about it.
Helyos96@reddit
I wish. Android is its own thing now. When you run a kernel from qualcomm, sure it's a "linux" kernel, but the majority of its lines of code are not upstream and rely on closed source userspace binaries.
bloodguard@reddit
I wish. If a decently spec'd and reasonably priced phone shows up where I can run linux I'd pull out my wallet.
Double the sentiment for a linux capable tablet that isn't $800+. Although I just checked and the Minisforum V3 just dropped from $1200 to $600.
Might.
_mr_crew@reddit
The cheaper Minisforum V3 is a different model with lower specs (SE). I was interested in one, but had a few issues even ordering it and decided against it (due to repairability concerns).
Even if you’re willing to pay a premium, there aren’t good options. An iPad is a more attractive deal to me. Some people pointed to Asus z13 the last time I looked into it, but there’s no way I’ll spend >$2k with a manufacturer like asus.
Additional-Sky-7436@reddit
And the other 20% are powered by a forked version of BSD.
SadraKhaleghi@reddit
Meanwhile compiling apps for linux is a single command, while doing so for Android requires the stupidest Studio app imaginable, mixed with SDKs and JDKs and WhateverDKs that don't want to work. Yeah pretty sure Android is Linux...
PureTryOut@reddit
You don't actually need that, you "only" need the command line tools. That's how I do my daily Flutter Android development at work, no Android Studio installed anywhere on my PC ;)
CaptainObvious110@reddit
I thought you gnu
respibienn@reddit
Wooooooooooow
Didgy74@reddit
This is only correct in the very technical sense. It's much more interesting to see how many devices run traditional Linux environments. Show me how many mobile devices I can support by making an app that uses traditional Wayland + Vulkan + Orca etc. Where I can distribute my app on common Linux package managers such as apt, snap and flatpak.
degoba@reddit
Theres no such thing as a “traditional linux environment .” Linux is just a kernel and its been implemented in so many different operating systems with wildly different userlands.
Didgy74@reddit
In which case, I'd like to see the stats on the "userland" that we tend to see on Linux consumer-oriented distributions, but on mobile.
woox2k@reddit
It's impressive but not really newsworthy. What it means? Linux kernel is popular and won't go anywhere in the near future? That's a given anyway considering how popular it is in other areas of the industry.
For everyday user it doesn't mean pretty much anything. Linux desktop operating systems will not become better (besides kernel) or popular because of the kernel popularity and no more third-party support will be given to these operating systems.
Heck, it's not entirely unreasonable to think that future Windows might even come shipped with Linux as it's kernel if MS figures out how to do it. That too would offer no benefit to other Linux distros, in fact might even make things worse since MS would surely make sure their stuff would not run anywhere else.
Yes i now noticed the sub it is posted in but i'll leave it here anyway.
Tiny-Independent273@reddit
yeah, but how many run Java?
Reason7322@reddit
Yeah that's just a lie, unless I can run flatpaks and snaps on my phone.