Leaning = American?
Posted by LibrarianAccurate829@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 270 comments
Somehow i just found out about this americans always lean stereotypes very very recently. I always lean whenever i get the chance if im standing but never thought about it being an american thing, so im wondering if its one of those accurate or non accurate stereotypes
sweetbaker@reddit
It’s also not so much that we LEAN, which we do, but we also don’t stand equally on both feet. We tend to place more weight on one leg and then shift the weight to the other leg.
I had a British physical therapist tell me, when I mentioned I have a standing desk, that people need to be told how to stand at one. She basically told me to stand with more weight on one leg, then shift weight over to the other leg after a while to help build strength in your feet. It took me a good 10 seconds of my brain being like how else do you fucking stand??? before I remembered Americans stand differently and she was telling Brits to basically stand like Americans at desks. Lol
Responsible-Fox-9082@reddit
Who's this doctor and how much will the charge for an hour of asking how the fuck British people are standing?
sweetbaker@reddit
It was part of a longer appointment. No need to be an asshole when perhaps common sense could have been used.
Responsible-Fox-9082@reddit
You're mistaken. I seriously want to know how the fuck British people are standing that a medical professional has to tell them to shift weight from one foot to the other. Not an asshole unless you're British which I would assume from the California tag you're not
wooper346@reddit
This is such a random characteristic and I'm suddenly so interested in learning more. Did she say why this might have come about?
Somewhere, at some point in our history, Americans started shifting their weight more than their colonial peers and I need to know why.
sweetbaker@reddit
No, my brain was stuck on why are you explaining how to stand? (Before it clicked that she probably doesn’t treat a lot of Americans, I’m currently living in the UK).
It’s always fascinated me to why we lean, shift weight, and count differently with our fingers.
BouncingSphinx@reddit
What do you mean by counting differently? Like we say index is 1 and thumb is 5 vs thumb is 1 and index is 2?
VelocityGrrl39@reddit
Inglorious Basterds has a scene where this is a famous tell.
chinacatatl@reddit
Was scrolling thru the comments to see if someone linked this clip.
sweetbaker@reddit
Yeah. I’ve noticed Europeans tend to start with their thumb as 1 and Americans start with their index finger
smugbox@reddit
Really? I start with my thumb
lefactorybebe@reddit
What's strange to me is I start with my index finger for counting, but if I'm listing something I start with my thumb. So like if I'm saying we need tomatoes, corn, onion, and cheese from the store and gesticulating with my hands, I'll start with my thumb. Counting from number one starts with my index finger though lol
RaleysBag775@reddit
Omg I start with my pinkie, what the hell am I? Lmao
To be more specific, I start with my left pinkie by touching my left thumb to it, then thumb to ring, middle etc when it comes to 6-10 I touch right pinkie with right thumb, then ring with thumb, middle with thumb, etc...
🤔🤔
KDY_ISD@reddit
You want to really blow your mind, try counting like this:
Touch your thumb to the tip of your pinkie: that's 1. Middle section fo your pinkie, 2. Base section of your pinkie, 3. Tip of your ring finger, 4. Etc., etc. By the time you get to the base of your index finger, you've counted to 12. Now your other hand's thumb can touch the tip of your pinkie.
Now you can count to 144 on your hands.
deafinitely-faeris@reddit
In ASL this is actually how we sign numbers 6-9!
6 starts by touching your thumb and pinky, 7 is your ring finger and thumb, 8 is your middle finger and thumb, then you get to your index and thumb which is 9.
RaleysBag775@reddit
Oh! I learned something new today! Nice. 😊 that's pretty interesting. I wonder where I got this from, Ive always done it this way
hpfan1516@reddit
I started reading this comment with such confusion and then when you explained I realized I do the same (but only if double checking my count. Weird)
RaleysBag775@reddit
OMG! YES!! I do! How strange! I love it
KevrobLurker@reddit
Nobody needs onions.
r/onionhate
lefactorybebe@reddit
I'm sorry for whatevers happened to you
ninjette847@reddit
I just realized I do this too but when I was little I counted with my thumb first but I had a German nanny.
lefactorybebe@reddit
I have no German relatives of any kind! The first German person I met (afaik) was my German teacher in middle school. I wonder if we all do this?
JudgeWhoOverrules@reddit
I mean, perhaps you grew up around a lot of European immigrants?
smugbox@reddit
No
JudgeWhoOverrules@reddit
I said this on the assumption that you spent your formative years in the place your flair indicates. 36% of New York City residents are foreign born so if you grew up there it would make sense you have at least some habits that aren't expressly American.
smugbox@reddit
I live in NYC currently but I didn’t grow up in the city. New York is a whole state
dankeykang4200@reddit
It's crazy how New York City only takes up . 56% of New York's landmass, but 40% of its population lives there.
smugbox@reddit
40% is still less than half, which makes it more likely that a random someone from New York State did not grow up in NYC.
Dude saw my flair and immediately assumed I grew up in the city and that my neighbors have anything to do with the way I learned to count with my fingers
Smorsdoeuvres@reddit
Weird I start with my pinky and count back towards the thumbs- maybe that’s because I’ve been teaching my littles and this sets us up for counting to 10? Huh. Never really thought about it but I count this way for numbers and listing things off I start with my thumb
KathyA11@reddit
I do the same if I'm counting, say, the days of the week to correlate them with dates.
apcb4@reddit
I also start with my thumb if I’m counting 1-3, but there’s still a difference between how Americans and Europeans instinctually do it. Hold up “4” without thinking- most Europeans will do thumb to ring finger and keep their pinky down (which I can’t even physically do). Same with 3, thumb to middle. I remember my middle school French teacher telling a story about gesturing through a window to someone grilling, saying she wanted one hamburger and holding up her thumb. The guy just gave a thumbs up back and asked again how many burgers she wants.
rake_leaves@reddit
Got in a jam in France when i ordered 3 whiskeys in WWII
lakeswimmmer@reddit
Same
PissDrinker900@reddit
How does that even work? I cant move my ring finger while keeping my pinkie finger closed
djfilms@reddit
Exactly! You can’t start with your thumb, you need it to hold down your pinky for “three”
perplexedtv@reddit
That's pretty country-specific. Some start with the Inde, some with the thumb, others with the little finger.
snmnky9490@reddit
An an American I don't think I've ever seen anyone start counting with anything but their thumb
sweetbaker@reddit
As an American who grew up on the West Coast, I never saw anyone start counting with their thumb. Everyone started with their index finger
snmnky9490@reddit
Interesting. I've seen plenty of people use just their regular fingers without thumb to indicate a number, like if they wanted to say 2 they'd hold up their index and middle fingers, but actually counting/tallying up numbers no. Maybe it's a West vs East thing? I've only lived in the northeast and Midwest.
When people by you are counting, do they go index middle ring pinkie and then thumb last?
Striking_Computer834@reddit
That's the only way I've ever seen it done, but my experience is 99.99% limited to west of the Mississippi.
snmnky9490@reddit
That's funny, doing that feels so unnatural and slow to me, and I don't think I've ever even had it presented to me as an option as a kid. It always made sense to go in consecutive order
Striking_Computer834@reddit
Me too. Consecutive means fingers first, thumb last. :)
snmnky9490@reddit
I mean like in order next to each other. Thumb last is only consecutive if you start with the pinkie
Striking_Computer834@reddit
I don't consider the thumb to be next to the index finger. It's like a dew claw on people, or a hallux on birds.
Adorable_Dust3799@reddit
That's what i do. Born in ca, ages 1-5 in MA, then back to Cali forever. So kindergarten in ma.
beenoc@reddit
From the South (not Deep South), thumb is always #5 and starting with the thumb is super European coded and would make me think of the scene from Inglorious Basterds.
PureMitten@reddit
I'm from the Midwest and have always counted starting with my index finger, in the order you describe in your last sentence. I remember when I was young I had a teacher incorporate ASL into lessons and had to hammer in that what I use as 3 is 6 and that 3 is index, middle, and thumb. I still count 5-10 in ASL but have to be careful not to stop on 3 or 6 because I really have never gotten the hang of using my thumb for 3.
mfigroid@reddit
West Cost here. Thumb.
Striking_Computer834@reddit
Likewise, but index finger. I've never seen the thumb come out anything but #5.
Sacith@reddit
Californian here as well. I dunno if it's from my Ukrainian Grandmother or German Grandfather, but I also start with the thumb.
Taught my son the same way and my wife was horrified haha, because it looks like finger guns if you're only counting 2.
dankeykang4200@reddit
Well if you start with your index finger it's easier for someone else to count your fingers.
KathyA11@reddit
70-year-old American woman. If I'm counting by touching the fingers of my hand with the index fingers of my right, I start with the pinky and end with the thumb.
Swurphey@reddit
Dignam3@reddit
If I'm counting to myself I start with my thumb. If I'm showing someone a count with my fingers, I start with the index finger.
andmen2015@reddit
Yep, my Czech granny counted like this. If she held up two fingers it would be thumb and index.
wonderbooze@reddit
It’s funny because when I’m counting up, I start with my index finger. When I’m counting down, I start with my thumb.
BouncingSphinx@reddit
Well yeah, still follows that the thumb is 5 and the index is 1.
RudeBoyo@reddit
How is living in the UK compared to back home in California for you?
sweetbaker@reddit
The UK is not my place. I’m very happy people love living here, I do not. I miss the US and can’t wait to move back next year.
Will I come back for vacations? Absolutely. But this stint has taught my I solidly prefer the trials and tribulations of living in the US than elsewhere.
Cptn_Beefheart@reddit
Counting differently on their fingers, interesting. I watch a YTuber who counts from right to left and it always throws me off.
tracygee@reddit
I am wondering if it’s because of British politeness and desire to be more unobtrusive. An American would have no hesitation in moving about while in a line, whereas a Brit might feel that shifting around would be annoying or get into the personal space of the people around them.
And quite certainly an American would not be shy to shift over to the building and lean while in line, etc.
nrcx@reddit
I think it's just because it's fucking hot here. I'm not sure how that works, but it's the explanation for most British/American differences.
GRIFTY_P@reddit
Two theories:
Americans gotta be nimble & on our toes so we can duck when shots start to pop off
We're all fat and our knees ankles hips start hurting standing still too long
CalamityClambake@reddit
My theory:
Americans have fewer job protections than Brits and are thus forced to stand around pointlessly and "look engaged" more often. You see this in retail and dining, where Brits get stools to sit on when they aren't doing something and Americans are told to stand, look inviting, and "smize."
RLB4ever@reddit
Yes omfg I had to stand in a freezing entryway of my work in the dead of winter with the door open while it’s snowing outside wearing nothing but a thin cardigan and jeans because closing the door to our boutique wouldn’t be welcoming to customers
Sosolidclaws@reddit
SMIZE!
BadBalloons@reddit
I'd agree with number two except I started leaning when I was a small child who was very fit (ballet, gymnastics, horseback riding).
I don't remember how I used to stand (and really wish I could go back to that because it was probably better for my back and hips), but I know it wasn't the "American lean", because I remember looking over at my then-best friend and noticing her standing with her weight testing on one leg and that hip popped out. I deliberately started copying her stance from then on because I was getting bullied heavily in school at the time, and thought maybe standing less "stiffly" would literally make me stand out less. (It did not work.)
GRIFTY_P@reddit
achaedia@reddit
It’s because the UK is a small country with a lot of people and many chairs. Whereas when people started coming to the US, there was a lot of space and very few chairs. If a settler wanted to sit, they would have to carve their own chair out of wood and it took a very long time. So people would just have to stand around until their chairs were ready, and they would shift their weight to avoid fatigue.
Once there were enough chairs in the new world for everyone, shifting your weight when standing was already an ingrained cultural practice.
AMB3494@reddit
Apparently the CIA had to train its operatives to not lean the way we do because it would be very obvious to the people in the country they were operating in.
VentusHermetis@reddit
this is fucking insane. are you all pulling my leg?
AMB3494@reddit
This is just what I’ve heard
AwwFiddlestuck@reddit
4 Russians 1 spy No comments Russians: !
dankeykang4200@reddit
Because our bosses tell us if we have time to lean we have time to clean, then our individualism kicks in and we're like "fuck you, I'm gonna lean"
Plus our cashiers don't get chairs so they gotta lean or their feet will hurt
fragilefascists@reddit
Maybe the 1800s, always leaning keeps you ready to dive for cover during all those shootouts
andr_wr@reddit
As with many things, I think it's more likely that they used to do it in Britain and then they decided to evolve away from it, while we kept doing it.
Cptn_Beefheart@reddit
American males started consuming more beef, Their testicle grew over time to the point they had to adjust their stance. Thus the lean was developed.
BP3D@reddit
Somewhat related: I lean back while walking.
Anthrodiva@reddit
Username/comment perfection
GiraffeWithATophat@reddit
I will now consider this true, and will repeat it often
Dense-Result509@reddit
The contrapposto stance first appears in ancient Greece and is the standard standing pose for art from that era/influenced by that era. I have difficulty imagining it was an American innovation, but I also have no idea why Europeans would stop using/forget about a stance immortalized in their most famous art. Especially when the pose got so popular because it was more relaxed/natural-seeming.
Minnow_Minnow_Pea@reddit
But like, what do non-Americans do when their legs get tired?
I suddenly realize that Americans are basically flamingos.
captainpro93@reddit
Sit?
What do Americans do when their legs get tired?
Party_Caregiver9405@reddit
As an elder millennial American I learned to stand like that because I needed to adapt to the childhood punishment of standing in a corner. Having to stand still in a corner for what felt like forever as a kid meant my feet would get sore so I had to learn to shift my weight between my feet.
worktogethernow@reddit
America. Still best at standing around.
slingshot91@reddit
Really? Contrapposto shows up in statues as far back as Ancient Greece. This isn’t an American thing…?
SuperSmash01@reddit
Yeah I'm pretty sure this is just how humans stand.
Pixelated_Penguin808@reddit
Americans are known more for it however than some other nationalities. So much so that the CIA used to train its spies not to during the Cold War.
It's like the Slav squat.
Many people squat, including lots of non-Slavs. But there is also a reaon why Eastern Europeans are known fo rit.
Stohnghost@reddit
My wife declared herself fully American, despite being a citizen, once she was no longer flexible enough to slav squat. She's from Ukraine.
hypo-osmotic@reddit
No idea what modern day Greeks are getting up to in regards to standing but generally in a lot of these “Americans do thing differently than the rest of the world” statements, “the rest of the world” might just mean the UK and maybe Australia
0wlBear916@reddit
I used to have a standing desk and I kinda hated it because I couldn't stand with good posture. I was always leaning from one foot to the other.
Brave_Speaker_8336@reddit
LOL im literally reading this right now while at a standing desk, started off with most my weight on my left leg but once I read the first sentence of the second paragraph, I was like “oh shit” and then shifted to put weight equally on both legs. And then I kept reading and was like oh thank god I was already doing it right
4myreditacount@reddit
Huh. Thats suprising that the 1 leg weight method would be better affording to a physical therapist. I always just assumed equal weight distribution would always be better.
selimnagisokrov@reddit
Countering everything everyone else is saying, I had a PT move me in front of a mirror and made me shift until my weight was evenly distributed and said that was why my knee was weak (she wasn't my usual therapist and just a sub in, this routine never came back in during my stint in PT).
It was so uncomfortable standing there with even weight distribution.
sweetbaker@reddit
Whenever I try to stand with even weight distribution it feels so unnatural 😅. It’s always interesting to see how professionals differ in what they recommend.
It’s also been interesting to see the difference between American vs British Doctors.
4myreditacount@reddit
Hm, I could see how favoring one side could do that.
Tommy_Wisseau_burner@reddit
More weight equals more strength. Also you can go longer because you give 1 side a break while the other does the work. Think of curls with a curl bar vs dumbbells
sweetbaker@reddit
She was saying something about how the weight on one foot causes the muscles in that foot to work more. Her speciality is in lower limb mechanics and I was seeing her for a foot/ankle recovery.
cthulhu_on_my_lawn@reddit
When I delt blackjack they talked to us about walking our game, which is primarily a security measure (facing your body slightly right when dealing to a player on your left, for example) but it does also help dealing with the amount of standing on a game to be moving slightly.
4myreditacount@reddit
Huh. Well good! I already do this. Sometimes my genius surprises even myself....
BreakfastBeerz@reddit
More weight = more strength. You'll build more strength lifting 100lbs for a half hour than you will lifting 50lb for an hour.
Traditional-Job-411@reddit
I’m convinced it’s because of the whole not allowed to sit and having to stand at the majority of our first jobs. If you don’t shift weight, you hurt yourself.
lefactorybebe@reddit
I think it starts a lot earlier than that. I was doing it way before I ever held a job.
Fox-Dragon6@reddit
I wonder if it started though because people couldn’t sit so they started doing the one leg stand. They went home to their children and kept doing the one leg stand, From there their children learned to do the same thing and now it’s just embedded into our culture?
Although we’re not the only country that have long standing habits, so I’m guessing it’s probably from something else too
Traditional-Job-411@reddit
The Rabari stand on one foot. Do we know of other long standing cultures that don’t shift weight or stand on one foot?
Fox-Dragon6@reddit
My thought it might have something more to do with the industrial revolution. Before you’re constantly moving or you’re able to change positions, however, with factories, you kind of stood in one place for your entire shift.
No idea if that plays into this at all but it was one of the first thoughts that popped into my head.
QuercusSambucus@reddit
I figured it out when I had to stand a lot as a child during very long worship at a church service.
Chad-Ironrod@reddit
When I am standing in one place for a bit and have my weight on one foot, I often instinctively pick up my off foot like a bird. My wife hates it. She loves flamingos, but apparently not when I stand like one...
sweetbaker@reddit
Have you tried dressing in all pink and then doing it??
Soundtracklover72@reddit
Excellent advice. I, for one, would love to see the outcome of this.
benkatejackwin@reddit
As a kid in competition choirs, we were told to stand with weight on one foot and shift occasionally. Standing packed in with people on risers in sometimes warm places, fainting is a possibility, and standing with weight on both feet equally guarantees you go straight down (forward or backward) like a heavy wood plank.
AdStrange2167@reddit
I do it because I literally cannot fucking stand still
Anthrodiva@reddit
Intereesting, on a cruise recently they had a guy trying to scam us into orthotics and I was the only non camdidate because based on my footprint I had excellent posture/stride. Then my manicurist said my foot callouses also indicate I stand properly.
tacitjane@reddit
That's awesome! They might not ultimately care about employees. But at least they care enough to not have them be injured.
It's similar at my job. We're constantly telling each other to not be a hero. We have signs posted all over reminding us to stretch, stand correctly, etc. Security posts injury reports. No names, just what happened.
Rei_Rodentia@reddit
wow, so other countries are actually giving us endless shit for something we're doing correctly??
suck it, rest of the world!
SavannahInChicago@reddit
This one is weird for me. I have a condition called POTS which means that for a variety of reasons my blood has a hard time return to my brain and this causes my heart rate to increase too much.
Leaning all the time is something we all tend to do because standing still tends to raise our heart rates the most. But I’m always going to be a stereotype because I’m American, when obviously people in other countries get and do this.
ShadynastyLove@reddit
If you see me leaning, it's due to my plantar fasciitis. Lol
reigndyr@reddit
It's verifiable as a stereotype, but I'm very curious WHY we do this more than others.
siandresi@reddit
As someone who came to the US from a different culture I remember having the impression that americans value comfort very highly. Maybe theres something to that. American cars were always super comfortable, there are plenty of people who will wear only "comfortable clothes" aka shorts/pjs, ac/heater temperature, etc.
All speculation hope im not offending anyone
Pabu85@reddit
Does your culture really not value human comfort?
siandresi@reddit
Of course others value comfort, id say just not as much. I’d say comfort tramples formalities in the US more (in my experience) than other places.
ShadynastyLove@reddit
This is also based highly on class level and upbringing.
meagainpansy@reddit
Klingons...
Pabu85@reddit
I didn’t know Gowron was on Reddit.
Stohnghost@reddit
You're correct
Ok-Entertainment5045@reddit
We definitely value comfort.
Swurphey@reddit
I haven't worn anything except sweats and basketball shorts under my own free will since 4th grade
siandresi@reddit
Yeah! I have a buddy like that lol, it is not uncommon to see that here in the US, and of course not everyone does it, definitely a minority, but It’s accepted. Where I grew up in Latin America, sweats were associated with either exercising or being lazy around the house. That seems so silly to me now, but it also makes sense lol Now that I’ve been here for so long, it seems like a normal thing but i remember it catching my attention when i first got here
Leading-Summer-4724@reddit
Because I’m just so tired boss. I’m only getting like 6 hours at night.
RoryDragonsbane@reddit
That don't befront me.
Long as I get my money next Friday.
morningtrain@reddit
The average us worker gets 11 days and we use them on vacation so we all tired…
Party_Caregiver9405@reddit
And we have very high productivity too. Long hours and high expectations create a vortex of lethargy elsewhere.
tickingkitty@reddit
Plus, a lot of jobs make us stand. I don’t see why cashiers don’t have the option of sitting. I mean, I know the excuse, but it’s bull.
SnowblindAlbino@reddit
Exactly. My youngest is working retail this summer, including at places that are dead after about 400pm, but they are forbidden to sit down. Must always be standing at the counter, even when doing nothing. It's silly.
Leading-Summer-4724@reddit
And I can’t take all those days all at once! 💤
ReaperOfWords@reddit
I’m 6’4”. Leaning is a nice break from standing straight all day.
Want_To_Live_To_100@reddit
Ah so no other people in the world stand all day and have people that are 6’4”? The question isn’t why you do it, it’s why is it American?
arealhumannotabot@reddit
It’s the Slavic Squat of the Americas
Apprehensive-Put4056@reddit
this is the way
mfigroid@reddit
/r/slavs_squatting/
unittestes@reddit
It's the only kind of lean Americans can do
balletbeginner@reddit
Standing still with even weight distribution requires engaging leg and core muscles. Many Americans are sedentary, so they're not engaging their muscles to maintain posture.
Chimney-Imp@reddit
Funny, because the other comment has a physical therapist saying that alternating is better lol
goodgollygoshdarn@reddit
Americans left equality in the dust long ago. Even the weight displaced to their feet.
flora_poste_@reddit
It's not just leaning against things. It's shifting weight from one foot to another. I've spent a lot of time abroad, and locals tend to stand straight with their weight on both feet evenly.
dcgrey@reddit
Or it's like some other stuff (accent I think?) where we maintained centuries old English practices while the English moved on to something else. An enourmous amount changed in England during the Victorian era that didn't have analogous changes here.
frederick_the_duck@reddit
It goes both ways. There are archaisms and innovations in both places. Neither is truer to the past. They’re just different.
arealhumannotabot@reddit
I think army is often taught to sway to shift weight and reduce fatigue in legs. I’m Canadian but I think we do this and leaning
Seems to be simple: it’s cultural. Other cultures squat, we lean.
minicpst@reddit
If I do this I tend to lock my knees. I’ve never passed out, but I find I have to unlock them.
I shift, I bend, I stand on one foot.
I was actually thinking about this last night, watching NBC a Finnish friend lean with one hand and put the other on his hip.
He’s been in the US a long time. :)
FlappyClap@reddit
They’re enjoying each foot equally.
Sithstress1@reddit
I don’t really lean against anything, but I absolutely subconsciously do the mom hip sway back and forth like I’ve got a baby on my hip anytime I’m standing still. Maybe that’s just my body being overdramatic with the weight shifting 😂.
Jorost@reddit
Yes. In fact the “American lean” is such a common identifier that it is one of the first things they teach CIA agents not to do. It’s a dead giveaway of an American.
ThePurityPixel@reddit
Apparently this was one thing American spies in Russia had to unlearn, because leaning like that would out you as non-Russian
Or so I've read
Unique-Gazelle2147@reddit
I was traveling the other day on a flight with a lot of Americans and we were in a really dirty airline hallway. Walls all visibly filthy and stuck waiting for 20 min. I noticed half of everyone in line was leaning on the filthy walls. I was thinking about how much Americans do lean on things or shift their weight or sprawl out and put their feet up on things. It’s def not as much of a thing in other countries
Leather-Sky8583@reddit
I do see people leaning a lot, but I didn’t realize it was a stereotype. Personally, I have a different quirk entirely where I will cross my legs and stand like that. But that may be more due to neurodivergence than social stereotypes.
justadrtrdsrvvr@reddit
I'm sitting in my chair leaning to one side. It's not just standing.
dausone@reddit
Snoop Dogg enters the chat
m_leo89@reddit
While I’m don’t doubt that Americans lean, I don’t think it’s an exclusively American thing. I work with people who aren’t American(Brazilian, Mexican, Jamaican) who I’ve seen lean many times.
BM7-D7-GM7-Bb7-EbM7@reddit
I was curious about this too so I looked it up one day. There has never been a formal study on this that I can find. Everything you find on this references to Reddit and sites like Buzzfeed, which steals all of its content from Reddit anyway (great source!). I had never even heard of this until I saw on Reddit maybe a year ago, and now it's taken as fact here on Reddit.
I believe this is one of those things that someone posted on a Reddit thread and got tons of upvotes because it sounded interesting and true, so now it's undisputed fact (here on Reddit) because people know it will get upvotes.
A similar thing happened a few years back with this supposed online dating study, I can't even remember the premise, but it was something like "90% of men are rated below average by women on dating apps." The thing that first made me question the data was, why would a dating app company that should be trying to get people to use its app even release data like that to begin with?? If it was true, I would bury that data as deeply as I possibly could.
Then about 20 minutes of Googling later I realized that the whole thing was entirely just Reddit referencing itself, and the couple of non-Reddit sources I found was some random Twitter account that was referencing Reddit, and then a Manosphere blog post that was referencing Reddit. The whole thing was just a giant circle jerk, but it was indisputable get-you-thousands-of-upvotes fact on Reddit for a few months.
These things happen quite a bit.
getinthekitschen@reddit
I actually heard about this stereotype recently from someone who is well travelled and definitely doesn’t use Reddit.
twobit211@reddit
due to his simplistic and seemingly imitable style and prolific output, there’s a lot of quotes falsely attributed to charles bukowski floating about the internet. one that frequently crops up is a line that is a direct rip off from the second coming by yeats. the funny thing is, if you type that line into a search engine, you’ll get back a lot of forum posts discussing the veracity of the same. they frequently link to other discussions of the same debate
Sufficient_Cod1948@reddit
I think it's more like not leaning or shifting weight is a European trait.
cpwnage@reddit
Absolutely bizarre thread. All humans lean and shift weight when standing for long.
Important-Hat-Man@reddit
So, two things about culture:
First, 90% of human culture is below awareness or subconscious - nobody ever teaches it to you, you don't think about doing it.
But second, culture is part of the human adaptation to nature - instead of evolving claws to hunt and fur to survive winter, we developed tools to make clothes and language to teach our children how to use them.
How you move through and use physical space is typically not consciously taught, it's the part of the culture you learn naturally by observing others.
One example is personal space - we've all heard of the concept, but I bet you can't point to the ground and show me where your personal space ends - you just know when someone's too close or too far away.
Americans are notorious for having a huge personal space and that's reflected in how we design spaces - our bedrooms have doors that close and lock - we have easy chairs in our living room so everyone has their own seat - we set aside individual spaces for different activities - we don't eat dinner on our bedroom floor; the washing machine goes in its own laundry room, and we don't hang clothes to dry in the kitchen.
Spend time overseas, and you'll immediately begin to feel the difference - here in Japan, apartments often have sliding doors with no latch, and rooms are all combined use - a typical apartment is an LDK, a combined living room/dining room/kitchen - you cook, eat, and watch TV in the same room; on rainy days you dry your clothes in the LDK, and the washer (no room for a drier) is in your bathroom.
Try this: Google up a picture of a British apartment and check how weird you feel seeing a washing machine in the kitchen.
Culture is part of our adaptation to nature, so it frequently replaces our natural behaviors - so a lot of people mistake the unconscious parts of their culture as universal human nature - like, hey, doesn't everyone lean?
Well, no, and it's part of how we utilize space - Americans like to segment space - this room is for this, that room is for that - and we hate nothing more than people cluttering, blocking, or taking up space - it's one of the ways we insult each other - "Look at this waste of space!"
When there's no walls or doors to segment space, our cultural instinct is to move aside, get out of the way - what's the best way to do that? Find a wall or a pillar and lean against it. Get out of the way, get out of the flow of traffic. And don't just stand there, plant yourself - communicate to the people around you that you aren't moving anywhere - don't mind me, don't try to dodge me, I'm stuck to this wall.
But, again, this is all unconscious - you don't notice or think about these rules until someone breaks them. A HUGE culture shock for Americans here in Japan is just how much people get in your way, or jump out in front of you, or rub against you on overcrowded trains.
Those are all ways to start a fight in the US, so you immediately get an understanding of why it's called culture shock and why people talk about it like an illness - your brain is constantly telling you this guy wants to fight you, but it's literally just a little girl who fell asleep with her head on your shoulder. It's stressful, and you have to consciously manage your unconscious reflexes.
Anyway, tldr, Americans lean because we value other people's space and want to get out of the way.
Horangi1987@reddit
Funny story that always makes Americans uncomfortable.
Koreans do not have a spatial bubble like Americans do at all. Koreans have no problem bumping into each other and rubbing up against others in crowded situations. It’s always very jarring for Americans.
But the funniest part to me? Koreans for some reason will naturally bunch up. My example: I went to a movie in Seoul. It wasn’t a super big blockbuster or anything, so it was not a crowded theater at all. In America, everyone would probably sit in different rows in this scenario, or at least have multiple seats between themselves and others not in their group. Not in Korea! The group of about 9 strangers all sat together. Like, right next to each other in the center of the theater 😂
Growing up both in Korea and America was so cool. I feel like I have so much more perspective because I was able to do that.
Teacher-Investor@reddit
I've heard that in Asian culture it's considered rude to leave someone by themselves. So, if you get on a bus, and there's only one other person on the bus, you would sit right next to them to be polite. In the U.S., you'd look like a complete psychopath if you did that.
homelaberator@reddit
Asia is a mighty big place and definitely not monocultural. I dare say the attitudes of Siberia differ from those of Sri Lanka and those of the Philippines from Palestine. And each of those places are multi-ethnic and multi-cultural themselves.
Swurphey@reddit
I wonder if their rules to the urinal game are any different too
Important-Hat-Man@reddit
They are. Japanese urinals have no barriers, there's no middle urinal rule, and guys will just pull up and start asking you about your day.
Which leads to an extreme irony when Japanese people sometimes say, oh, I avoid foreigners in public because I'm scared they might try to talk to me, while it's literally the local culture to chat at the urinal.
Swurphey@reddit
Psychopathy
Important-Hat-Man@reddit
That sounds like nonsense to me BUT I could imagine the tendency to bunch up is sometimes about showing, like, "I'm not hostile, I'm not avoiding you."
Like, in a culture where everyone clumps together not sitting next to someone on an empty train is what makes you look like a psycho. Like, "Why the fuck is that guy all the way over there???"
noodletaco@reddit
I always joke that Koreans seem to take the path of MOST resistance. I'm trying to scoot closer to the wall to move out of the way of the flow of people, and yet someone will always WITHOUT FAIL still try to squeeze between me and the wall.
Divine_Entity_@reddit
On the movie theater thing, my workplace has a small movie theater (used to be a visitors center) and now we use it for meetings/presentations/training. I have basically never seen 2 people sit in adjacent seats, its always every other seat even if people need to stand at the back. Half of those seats could be removed and literally nothing would change.
dup5895@reddit
I wonder if this comes from living in more populated areas. I can understand defaulting into “filling in the seats” because you just assumed any public area you’re in is eventually going to be at capacity.
Granadafan@reddit
That would make most westerners uncomfortable as well. Having personal space is NOT unique to Americans. Try crowding around a bunch of British people or Scandinavians that’s not in public transportation or sporting event
Important-Hat-Man@reddit
Nobody said it's unique to Americans. Pointing out that "this is the culture" isn't the same as saying it's unique.
Like, all cultures have food, but it's possible for each culture to have their own way to make food.
American personal space is just really big. Nobody's saying it's unique.
Case in point, yeah, no, don't crowd around Americans on public transit or a sporting event. Yeah, don't do that, we don't make exceptions for that.
Important-Hat-Man@reddit
I've seen this here in Japan, too. Lots and lots of situations where you'll see people purposefully go out of their way to bunch up when they don't need to.
After a while, it just hits you that - yeah, no, they like it that way.
Which is also kind of a lesson in understanding how culture works, because there really, truly are no cultural universals.
Like, isn't piling up like that objectively unpleasant...??? And it's like, no, apparently not. And you gotta work that out in your head.
Fox-Dragon6@reddit
That is a fascinating statement. It makes sense.
Important-Hat-Man@reddit
Thanks, I'm obviously kinda bullshitting a lot here - but I've found there's a lot of insight to be found in talking about your own culture in the weird fetishized way people talk about other cultures (e.g., look up the body rituals of the Nacierema).
That's another insight from living in Japan - take the whole "ancient Japanese art" or "Japanese thing that can't be translated" and just do it for yourself.
"Do you know the ancient American art of 'personal space'? American culture highly values respect for other people and their space." Yeah, it's bullshit but you kinda go, wait, yeah, we do value that.
miss_shimmer@reddit
I have to ask, did you happen to study anthropology or take an anthro class?
Leading-Summer-4724@reddit
This is an amazing answer, and you’re right I never really thought about it, but the idea of just standing in the middle of a space where I might have people need to go around me just weirds me out. If I’m in public and I need to look through my bag for anything, I move off to the side like I would if I were pulling a car over.
suzyclues@reddit
Ok, but why do we do it? I find myself leaning against things all the time. Is it because we sit too much?
Dio_Yuji@reddit
We’re top-heavy. Lol
suzyclues@reddit
sorry you were down voted. I thought it was funny. not accurate for me, but funny
Southern_Net8115@reddit
This may have been true years ago, but as someone that lives in Western Europe, the differences between Americans and Europeans are no longer that obvious. I had a visiting American friend think that a European person was lying about being European because they lean “like an American” and that their accent must have been intentionally fake. All of this because they were told that only Americans lean.
SalesNinja1@reddit
Cause we have time to clean.
dankeykang4200@reddit
Yet we say, fuck you! I'm gonna lean.
breebop83@reddit
Every retail (probably any service job really) manager’s favorite saying.
justinhammerpants@reddit
I just burst out laughing on the train home. Forever emblazoned on the brain.
GrannyTurtle@reddit
After hearing about this, I began paying attention and I definitely lean on things.
BenDover_15@reddit
I love this sort of conversation. I'm European but I lean very similarly (I'm 6'3 and life's too painful not to lol). Maybe this is part of the reason why people sometimes think I'm American (like actually starting to think this now)?
Potential-Rabbit8818@reddit
Yes, especially county workers, they love to lean on their shovels.
dankeykang4200@reddit
Probably because employers insist that we stand for every task that can be done standing in America. Why the fuck do cashiers not get chairs here. When you're forced to be on your feet all day, you figure out that leaning is a great way to get your weight off of one foot at a time.
Plus employers love to say "if you've got time to lean you've got time to clean". I've seen that phrase posted on the walls at more than one place. When an American hears that, their obnoxious American individualism kicks in and says "you know what, fuck you! I'm going to lean."
Leaning is an act of rebellion for working class Americans.
Miserable-Lawyer-233@reddit
we're too cool for school.
FunkySalamander1@reddit
I’ve only recently learned that this might be a thing, but when they say lean, do they mean lean against a wall or something, or just shifting weight from one leg to the other. I don’t know why you wouldn’t shift your weight. It’s just more comfortable, at least for me.
SalesTaxBlackCat@reddit
Both.
KJHagen@reddit
I feel like I was conditioned by the Army not to lean.
binarycow@reddit
I did lots of leaning. And resting. To the front.
KJHagen@reddit
Half right, Face! Front leaning rest position, Move!
Yep!
Alternative-Law4626@reddit
I was thinking the same thing. The other commenter said they did four years forty years ago and still lean. I did 5 years (plus 4 years of JROTC, two of that in a military school) maybe all of that makes the difference. It’s not that I never lean, it’s just rare. Usually, if I’m standing it’s equally on both feet. If I’m there a long time I’ll leaning left or right, almost never against something though.
VelocityGrrl39@reddit
I did 4 years of NJROTC and I lean whenever possible. My fucking feet hurt.
No_Foundation7308@reddit
Yeah, but as soon as I’m out of that uniform….game on
KJHagen@reddit
That’s what I thought. 😂 I am almost as bad as ever.
BigHatPat@reddit
one of my coworkers is an army vet. dudes in his 60s but will still stand for hours without slouching or leaning
ImNachoMama@reddit
I did four years forty years ago, and I still lean. 🤷♀️
KJHagen@reddit
I did over 30. Picked up some good habits and bad ones.
SlimmG8r@reddit
My dad did 20 and got out over 20 years ago, he will still never be caught with his hands in his pockets.
They do drill hard
No-Profession422@reddit
Yes this, along with smiling too much and engaging in insincere small talk. It drives many Europeans crazy. So I do it as often as possible when there.😄
Imightbeafanofthis@reddit
Like most stereotypes, it has some basis in truth, but it's inaccurate.
Everybody leans. We're all built with one leg slightly shorter than the other. As a result we move from one leg to the other when we stand. So, is the stereotype of Americans leaning accurate? Yes. It also true of Albanians, Brazilians, Cambodians, Danes, the English, Finns, Germans, Hollanders, Icelanders, Jamaicans, Kazakhs, Luxomburgers, Maltese, Nigerians... right through the entire alphabet.
Icy-Whale-2253@reddit
Standing gets tiring
patsy_in_a_hack@reddit
Most of us also can’t squat properly. “Heels on the ground, comrade found. Heels to the sky, American spy.”
mairin17@reddit
I know dozens of non-Americans who lean 🤷♀️
Strict_Berry7446@reddit
I’ve had a hammock instead of a couch for years, and I’m staying at someone else’s house for a bit…. And I realized I haven’t sat normally for a long time
polkjamespolk@reddit
I've read that this is prevalent enough that the CIA has to train spies on how to stand like a European person does because we're easy to pick out of a crowd.
AngryAlien21@reddit
We’re not allowed to sit, ever. It’s a learned coping mechanism
Pabu85@reddit
I’m American, but I lean because I have disabilities related to upright mobility. Not at all sure what people like me do elsewhere to not be considered American.
Winter_Ad6784@reddit
I wouldve considered it more of a french thing.
Successful_Debt_7036@reddit
This thread is full of shit
Content_Talk_6581@reddit
I was born with hip dysplasia, so I have leaned and shifted my weight from one foot to the other my whole life. I have recently learned I have PsA, so it explains a lot but even as a kid I did that. I always felt like I was being rude, but just couldn’t help it. It’s painful to stand with my weight distributed.
Automatic_Teach1271@reddit
They onto us. Embrace the squat
adrianlovesyou@reddit
My son watched a YouTube video about this, and calls me out for leaning pretty much daily.
Bastiat_sea@reddit
It was enough of a problem that the CIA has to train people not to do it.
Geekbotpro@reddit
non-leaners are feds
huazzy@reddit
Surprised Tarantino hasn't built this into a movie scene.
tabbrenea@reddit
We lean because we’re tired. Tired of…waves all around in all directions
Buhos_En_Pantelones@reddit
And Asian people crouch. Ever notice that?
West-Improvement2449@reddit
Yeah
_gooder@reddit
😂
It is a thing. I'm an American leaner. I wonder if it's because we don't walk everywhere (we can't due to our infrastructure) so we don't have strong cores? My kid moved to NYC last year and is walking so much now that he looks 3 inches taller.
cat52060@reddit
I was just about to ask if that may be the case! I'm not American, but before I started being more physically active, I used to lean whenever I could and shift my weight around to make up for the lack of core strength. I was surprised to see people label it as an American thing, for me it was just a "standing is hard because I have no muscle" thing
_gooder@reddit
Adding more core work to my routine now! ☺️
Freedom_891@reddit
I never really thought about it before but I guess you're right. Funny thing is when I see someone standing in a crowd equal weight on both feet shoulders squared and good posture I usually assume they are either former or current military.
stevenmacarthur@reddit
Yeah, we lean; we only get two weeks of vacation per year, and we're exhausted.
thatrightwinger@reddit
Personally, I think it's part of America's sense of casualness and a bit of egalitarianism. Leaning is a sign that you don't have to hold your strict attention; it means you're relaxed and unconcerned. In a system where class is more pronounced, you could never lean in front of your betters.
On top of that, leaning has been seen a lot in the movies, going back to the 1930s. A detective would lean on a post and "casually" ask someone questions, hoping to get a bit of useful information to slip out. Or a teen would lean on his car. Very James Dean.
Cowboywizard12@reddit
Iirc this stereotype is so correct the CIA has to teach agents who will operate in foreign countries to not lean
DingoFlamingoThing@reddit
Americans typically keep their weight on one leg at a time while standing. And sit intermittently
CynicalBonhomie@reddit
This past spring semester, we were talking about low wage jobs in a college class after reading Barbara Ehrenreich's Nickel and Dimed. A student told me he had just been written up by his supervisor for leaning against the wall while he was working the customer service desk.
HarpyHugs@reddit
I just saw this from an influencer I watch that is from the US living in Japan. I was like...do we lean a lot? Then I started thinking about it.. Yeah if we have a chance to lean against something we will lol
Appropriate-Food1757@reddit
Posting up
FunProfessional570@reddit
I know that after I had a baby I found myself shifting/swaying like you do to soothe a baby. My babies are in their thirties and I still do that if I stand for longer than a few minutes.
Chance-Business@reddit
I've heard in the past this is how they were able to find out some spies were american vs european
Unusual_Memory3133@reddit
As a former American retail worker, I know the maxim, “Time to lean? Time to clean!” I still think that when I catch myself leaning
bigphatpucci@reddit
i thought this was just homosexual contrapposto i didnt know we all did it 😭
BamaTony64@reddit
Never thought about it but i guess i do lean a good bit. Confusing part is why anyone would ever notice or care.
Funny how in one culture you don’t even see a practice and in another it is odd as a one eyed goat.
thenletskeepdancing@reddit
We on the lower rungs are often dogged by our bosses if they see us doing it.
"If there's time to LEAN, there's time to CLEAN!"
cottoncandymandy@reddit
Government agencies actually train spies to not lean. Its so prominent that it has given away spies before lol 🤷♀️ we love to lean.
Murky-Substance-7393@reddit
Come on, I lean
BearsLoveToulouse@reddit
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/endless-thread/id1321060753?i=1000663415121 Endless thread did a whole thing and kind of came to conclusion it a little bit of a myth.
FatGuyOnAMoped@reddit
I remember when I was a kid in the 1970s, they were talking about how people in Europe could spot Americans, just based on their posture/leaning on a TV show. That was the case even if the person was fluent in another language.
They then showed an American, speaking perfect French, to a group of French natives who could tell he was American, just because he leaned. Next, they showed him, speaking French, to another group, but instead of leaning back and forth, he leaned slightly forward and backward. This other group thought he was French, just based on his posture.
skateboreder@reddit
I have absolutely terrible posture.
Traditional-Job-411@reddit
Leaning isn’t posture.
ImNachoMama@reddit
Same.
PuzzleheadedLemon353@reddit
I don't think it's an American 'thing'...either you are a leaner, I guess...or you are not. I know nothing of this leaning thing ...I'm 60 and never see someone out leaning on things unless their leg or back hurts? Ridiculous assumption...
Dramatic-Blueberry98@reddit
Supposedly, it’s one of those things that they had to train out of potential spies before, during, and after World War 2 from what I’ve heard because it’s apparently a rare thing for non-Americans to do.
AgentEvie47@reddit
I never noticed this until I started working at a historic house giving tours, and the amount of people, especially men, that I have to tell to not lean against the wall drives me insane
Spirited_Ad_2063@reddit
43 year old American and I have never heard of this!
TheBimpo@reddit
I didn't know this was a thing until I followed this sub in my mid 40s.
It's an interesting "tell", but I'd be interested to hear how this came to be. I'm betting the answer isn't as definitive as people hope. Some things are just inertia.
EffectiveSalamander@reddit
I noticed that there's an ad from Xcel Energy which has a man leaning against a door frame.
ZephRyder@reddit
We do. But whenever don't I lean, people assume I'm military
Ok-Car-5115@reddit
I never stand or sit still. But I’m also autistic and probably have ADHD, so I assumed that was the reason.
Goldielocks711@reddit
Maybe it’s because we work more than most other countries and we just need to take a break whenever opportunity presents.
Sithstress1@reddit
“If you’ve got time to lean you’ve got time to clean!” *hands over broom
Cicada_Killer@reddit
It seems like it would be a cultural thing taught by parents, like don't put your elbows on the table.
It wouldn't have to have a real reason but culture and it would become automatic.
Leaning is going to be more muscles relaxing but if it is trained out of you you won't do it. Shifting weight allows muscles to rest and other muscles to take over allowing for more endurance, but if an authority tells you not to fidget...
Spam_Tempura@reddit
I’ve heard the same thing, but honestly I don’t believe it. I seen folks from various countries lean against things.
Raving_Lunatic69@reddit
Spies trained to blend in, obviously
DannyDanumba@reddit
Years of working in heavy ass boots have done a number on my feet. I’m leaning dammit 😤
ImNachoMama@reddit
I can't stand for long anymore, but even when I was fit, I loved to lean. Just a habit, I suppose. I don't think about it when I'm doing it.
AgeOfReasonEnds31120@reddit
I wouldn't know. Ask Europeans if they lean or not.
AgeOfReasonEnds31120@reddit
i literally just meant it's more useful to ask europeans that
AskAnAmerican-ModTeam@reddit
Your comment was removed as it violates Rule 12, “Answers and comment replies should be serious and useful.”
Please consider this a warning as repeated violations will result in a ban.
If you have questions regarding your submission removal - please contact the moderator team via modmail.
Cr4nkY4nk3r@reddit
I'm American, I lean.
I feel targeted.