When does sailing get comfortable?

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sailingtroy@reddit

Yeah man. "Travel like a Rockstar, work like a plumber" is the life. Cruising is just boat work in remote locations. The sea always has waves.

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Eh, I've seen a glassy smooth ocean with the smallest disturbance of waves off of SC and NC. Never when I was going out, unfortunately. But the waves were such that you would say that there were none. Sort of like a blanket with a few pens under it for small rollers. But with that came absolutely zero wind so you wouldn't be sailing in it.

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strangefolk@reddit

Bigger / heavier boat

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ConsciousAccident738@reddit

Icebreaker wouldn't be a bad choice. "Untitanic" or "Notitanic"

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danielt1263@reddit

This is wrong. A low Sail Area to Weight ratio will achieve what the OP is asking for. That and staying in protected waters.

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ReagansAssChaps@reddit

4M Seas

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penkster@reddit

ENough. The joke is played out.

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ReagansAssChaps@reddit

Daddy Chill

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Fun-Traffic3180@reddit

When you trust the boat, captain and shipmates

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Entire-Ambassador-94@reddit

It has its moments. It's important to focus on getting your boat setup in a way that you can setup and launch quickly and easily. Think of things like the fender ropes having hooks/clips/soft shackles instead of tying them down, sail bags (if you're not furling, which is better) that are big enough to store you sails EASILY, paying a driver instead of scrubbing the boat yourself, lazy jacks, rigid boom vangs, being in a slip that points upwind, etc. There are other things that make sailing itself more "comfortable" such as a 90% or 100% jib instead of a 130-150%(easier to tack), in-board instead of outboard motors. A Catalina 25 can be a little small for the Bay. Boats ≥30ft and ≥8000lbs handle the waves better. Some parts of the Bay can be fairly shallow, so a wing keel on "larger" boats can bring a little peace of mind. Don't always think that you have to get better at sailing your boat. Your boat can also get better at sailing you. Your first year (or two) owning a boat may involve a lot of maintenance, but if you do things right, it will tone down. If you feel like your sails are.

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TenorTwenty@reddit

Wait is your complaint about your physical comfort while underway or about the amount of work it takes to maintain a boat? Because sailing can be plenty comfortable; it can be incredibly relaxing, even. It’s a combination of the boat and the wind/water conditions. Lake sailing on a 30 ft boat? Primarily relaxing. Blue water voyage in an open dinghy? Not so much. As for the amount of work it takes. That, unfortunately, is just the way it is.

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arbitrageME@reddit (OP)

Two main things: On my high upkeep boat, it is about 1 hour of sailing for 1 hour of maintenance and 1 hour of setup and tear down. I like the mechanical work so it's still enjoyable, but I might not like it in 10 years The other boats were too unstable. Maybe it was the nature of the bay or I was trying to cross the sf bay in a small open cockpit canoe. Both it and the Catalina were a fight just to control You're right though about the lake sailing . I actually did sail a lake once. There were bouts of calm, but all in all was much more enjoyable as the canoe zipped through the water. It almost made a zipper sound

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WinLongjumping1352@reddit

People sailing the SF bay claim that this bay has the biggest chop by far. (Not sure I can believe it, because sailors tend to have the worst condition just at their location, inconveniently.

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futurebigconcept@reddit

Because SF Bay is so well protected by the Gate it has relatively high wind speed and low waves and swell compared to other sailing venues. I experienced 20 kts sustained boat speed there on a J105 due to the high wind and relatively flat conditions.

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jawisi@reddit

Summer afternoons on an ebb tide can produce some steep chop, no?

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futurebigconcept@reddit

It can, in some locations.

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hanse505@reddit

It really depends on what you enjoy and what you consider comfortable. Sailing upwind in the slot against ebb tide chop isn’t going to be “comfortable” on almost any sized boat in the bay - but it can be thrilling, fun, and warm with the right clothing. Tthe same boat can be comfortable on the same day if you take a city front sail under the bay bridge or take raccoon straits over to the lee of angel island. Sure, a small enough boat in spirited but normal SF Bay conditions (like your open cockpit canoe) will be wet and wild no matter what, which some might find enjoyable and others not. But the boats don’t need to get that big (maybe 30ish ft?) before it’s more about the skill of the sailor in making it comfortable for what the you and passengers will enjoy. The more confident you are in sporty conditions, the more comfortable it will be. Similarly a long ocean passage will be lots of work and not “comfortable” on any size boat. The videos of dolphins are selling the dream - even a very large 100ft boat or larger will involve lots of physical discomfort, late night watches in total darkness, and lots of work to keep things in good condition. More work if you are racing, less work if your goal is to enjoy the passage. But lots of work regardless. And yes, maintaining boats is a lot of work. You should be able to get your brain working on devising ways to continuously optimize the little routines you do every time. And eventually, if you are able to afford to pay for professional help with some of the work, it can certainly increase the enjoyment : maintenance ratio. But no matter what, you will always be working on it.

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jh937hfiu3hrhv9@reddit

Reaching with ten degrees of heel on a sunny day leaning back on the push pit and kicking the wheel from time to time comes to mind. That and sleeping on the hook over a calm night.

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jawisi@reddit

Never a better night’s sleep than at anchor with a very, very slight swell bending around the point into the anchorage.

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arbitrageME@reddit (OP)

Right, and on other nights, you're in your lee cloth trying to decide between getting up to man the con at 3 am or sleeping for another hour?

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Lukeyss@reddit

Passages like that are exceptionally rare for the vast majority of sailors.

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jh937hfiu3hrhv9@reddit

I am much to a comfortable landlubber to get involved in hard passages like that.

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No-Conference-2502@reddit

It’s like a house that will sink if you don’t do the maintenance and might one day sink if you do. Physical comfort is a boat size/sea state issue. Psychologically you shouldn’t ever get comfortable.

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Rednmrfer@reddit

Sounds like you don't want a boat. Some people say the best boat is someone else's. Big boats are more comfortable and stable, but unless you're paying someone else to do the work, all of that stuff you mentioned that you don't like is your responsibility. If having a vhf on is not your cup of tea, find someone else with a boat and sail with them. Some of my best times on a boat we're very uncomfortable. I'm up north and I've done deliveries as late as December to get some boats hauled. The days are early and bleak. You're cold and wet, and you keep your morale up with conversation and snacks. The type of day where you're grateful for half a cup of instant coffee. People get boats for different reasons, but it sounds to me like you consider most of it a hassle. Find a buddy with a boat and go out with them.

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Holden_Coalfield@reddit

Sounds to me like you prefer being a passenger

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WiffleBallZZZ@reddit

You're in Maine? I'm not a sailor, just a wannabe, but I think you need something with a little more meat on its bones for coastal sailing. According to this site, the Catalina 25 has a "comfort ratio" just below 20, which is pretty low (click "definitions" for more info): [https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/catalina-25/](https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/catalina-25/) Find a boat with a CR closer to 35, and you'll be living the dream. Just going by the #'s, with no sailing experience whatsoever, it looks like there are several Cape Dory's and Island Packets that would fit the bill.

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arbitrageME@reddit (OP)

jesus christ, my Rave has a comfort ratio of ... 1.4

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Island_girl28@reddit

Ouch!

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Blue_foot@reddit

I didn’t know there was a “comfort ratio” Interesting

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danielt1263@reddit

I have a friend with an Island Packet 38... I've gone out with my friend as crew a few times. When we get to the boat, he turns on the Jimmy Buffet, we clean the boat, motor out to open water, hoist sails and sit back and chat and eat snacks. After a few hours, he turns the boat about we trim sails again, then sit back and chat some more. What you describe as "comfortable" I consider quite boring. I have a beach cat. I'm constantly adjusting sails, changing headings, tacking and jibing, and hiking or trapping out; no music, just the water rushing by. For me, *that's* sailing. Get something with a lower Sail Area to Weight ratio, it doesn't matter the size or cost, and you will have a more "comfortable" experience.

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Alternative-Way-2700@reddit

I’ve come to realize on small sailboats it’s either extremely boring with no wind or thrilling with any wind. Never a nice comfortable “cruise” but still worth it

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vanalden@reddit

Hello OP Arbitrage. Never, is the answer. And that is part of the attraction. As a sailor you either know or will soon learn that the sea will never, ever stop trying to destroy your boat slowly, while trying to kill you and your loved ones quickly. Consequently, you will never, ever stop spending almost all of your time and most of your money in an effort to stop it from being successful. The effort and the challenge brings rewards that are simply not available from most other aspects of our lives. Comfort is not one of them.

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Same_Detective_7433@reddit

>As a sailor you either know or will soon learn that the sea will never, ever stop trying to destroy your boat slowly Fair warning, I am stealing that...

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vanalden@reddit

I know exactly where I was, at 02:30 hrs after anchoring, when I spoke these words to my wife. We had fled from one harbour at 11:00 hrs the day before after being warned by the harbourmaster that an approaching northerly gale would make the location untenable. We sailed around a series of rocky headlands into rising seas (ungentlemanly conduct), then made a difficult entry into another, safer harbour after midnight in pitch black conditions, nearly being mown down by a large, fast ferry in the process. "Can you see us Mr Ferry?" "No. Where are you?" "Two nautical miles directly in front of you, with all our lights and AIS on." "Hold on a sec. What's your name? Oh, yes, there you are. I'll pass you on your starboard side. Give us a wave!" He came past so close I could have shaken his hand. The lights of the navigation bouys were flashing everywhere, fortunately in reasonable compliance with our chartplotter. After a very rolly night, we discovered in the early dawn light that the suggested anchorage was festooned with fishing pots, all around us. It was a miracle we didn't snag one. We tiptoed our way out of there and sailed quite confidently, deeper into the harbour, to look for an authorised agent who might supply replacements for the new VHS equipment on our new boat, which had never worked properly (he did - wow, what a difference). This was the day we first acknowledged that the highs of cruising are some way short of outweighing the lows.

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Same_Detective_7433@reddit

I like the backstory, still stealing it.😁

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arbitrageME@reddit (OP)

it's almost like salt water and wind and waves aren't good for the health of me or my boat ... but yeah, as with many things in life, it's the labor of love

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koyaniskatzi@reddit

When does sailing get comfortable? - when you sail with mast pointing to the sky.

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Same_Detective_7433@reddit

Keep in mind that most people you talk to, including here, have never sailed a boat, and certainly never '***sailed***' a boat. Longer boats will be less rolly and slappy, and will hold a line better than a 25' but they are still boats, and the ocean has waves unless you are becalmed, and that is another hell in itself. So never really. What you will get is less of the feeling that your boat will self destruct if you don't concentrate hard enough on holding it together with your mind. You will learn to trust it, assuming you also are caring for it. You will learn that the rolling ain't hurting nothing, except all the things is is hurting, but none of them will kill you today, so you can relax and sleep, hopefully. Although your wife cannot, so you might be single if you keep doing it, and also your friends will tire of it, so probably a single sailor YouTube channel is your future... Enjoy!

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n0exit@reddit

Go racing. After that, everything else is relaxing.

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LovelyCarrot9144@reddit

One way to relax more is to join a sailing club that charters out larger sailboats. No maintenance needed by you, just the good stuff- sailing on nice days on comfortable boats. And frankly even with club costs it’s cheaper than owning.

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DMcI0013@reddit

Mine is a relatively slow and heavy 40’ cruiser. Which possibly helps. There are days where we heel over and cruise along at 7kts, sun shining and a sea state like glass. Then there are those freezing, wet squalls that never seem to let up as you battle headwinds and stubborn currents all night. It’s a mix. If you’re coastal, you can dive in and hide and wait it out. Depends on what you want out of it and where you’re located.

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Sailorincali@reddit

When you have a well found, stable, keel boat with a bit of a coaming trimmed to the wind using a wind-vane steering it gets pretty tolerable, even enjoyable at times! Long passages can be trying but include moments of comfort. Smaller boats are pretty much all wet when it gets boisterous unless they have a cruising design so I’d say over 20 feet or 6 meters. I sail in SF Bay and coastal California and even big boats get wet, so you have a good question.

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tenuki_@reddit

lol. Sailing is a sport. Discomfort is part of it. Take up beach sitting or something. Source: sailor of 50+ years.

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arbitrageME@reddit (OP)

At this rate, you're not even wrong. I used to sit on the beach seeing the beautiful sailboats out there race across the Wind and wish I was one of them. Now I sit on a beach and see the beautiful sailboats out there and I'm imagining every hour of maintenance and cost that goes into painting sanding scrubbing buying lines replacing bumpers etc and I'm happy for their fun but my wallet is happier

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21onDec23@reddit

Lines last for years, so do bumpers. I despise sanding/scraping/painting. That's why I bought a "cheap" older fiberglass built Catamaran. It's way cheaper and easier than most would assume, but it still costs some cash to keep them going in a healthy way. I bought mine at 26, moved onto it at 29, and haven't looked back in the past ~nearly~ three years. It's worth it bro.

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pdq_sailor@reddit

I have owned a Hobie Trifoiler and sustained 35 knots in it.. I crewed on a custom 53' ocean racer as a young man but you asked about comfort.. I still like performance oriented boats so ours is a vintage C&C design which I have further optimized (mast and rudder, sails and sailing gear plus current instrumentation) Its FAST.. but its also very comfortable.. heat pump, hardwood cabin sole, electric head, new LED lighting inside and out, solar, Bimini, dodger, dishwasher, air fry microwave oven, refrigeration, inverter, lithium batteries... and much much more - fast is not incompatible with comfort.. The newer boats on our dock do not come close to the performance or the comfort we have on our boat..

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RobynTheCookieJar@reddit

Honestly I love sailing and very occasionally I do like to go out and get onto trouble, but my favorite days are slow, low wind, short cruises to a swimming spot near shady cliffs. I'm not sure what it says about me that my favorite parts of sailing are the parts where I'm NOT sailing, but that seems to be the case with me! Next year I plan to do some coastal sailing, and I doubt I ever do a lot more than that. Deep water doesn't really appeal to me, I wanna be able to set a hook, enjoy my time, and sleep safely.

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MangoShadeTree@reddit

Swan 51 is a good start

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arbitrageME@reddit (OP)

wow she's a beauty. I've been looking at Oysters, but just window shopping for the next like 20 years

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Accomplished-Guest38@reddit

I think you've romanticized pieces of social media posts that you've seen, to be completely honest. Are there moments or even full days like what you described? Sure. But you don't ever count on those and I sure as heck wouldn't advise anyone to base their coffee to pickup the sport on them. Sailing is work and if you have a crew that knows their role it can alleviate some of that work for you, but it's always going to be some. Really it's the ocean, she'll always be your dysfunctional lover out there. You're pushing through her, splitting her at the bow, and she's going to team up with karma to try to throw as many unexpected challenges your way: weather, gear, tides...if you can think it, she's thinking of something else just to try to make you tired, wet, and miserable so "maybe you'll appreciate her for once!". I would recommend adjusting your expectations, learn to have that crazy dynamic with the ocean and every now and then she'll toss you a bone with a pleasure cruise worthy day. Just be ready for a tantrum....

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arbitrageME@reddit (OP)

yeah, it's good to get a real perspective about the far future. I've had days where the waves swamped my canoe and I had to bail water. Also once the bow shroud snapped and I dragged the jib home in the water ... those tantrums, man. But every so often you get that one day when it's warm and you're foiling and it makes those other days worth it you also have to love the maintenance. I've at about 1 hour maintenance and 1 hour setup for each hour of sailing. I like working on the boat, so it's not totally wasted time. But I can see it getting tedious really fast if you don't love it

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nylondragon64@reddit

Idk but the Catalina 25 can be a comfortable fun boat. No your not exploring the 7 seas but for bay sailing or costal crusing for the weekend. It's just fine. When in doubt let it out. There is no need to sail with the rail in the water all the time. Nor going out in 20knots of wind in a small boat.

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arbitrageME@reddit (OP)

you mean *don't* go out when you're taking on green water? huh. ok I'll try that next time.

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lucekp@reddit

To be honest, never, sailing has it is pros and cons, but if you own a boat you sail you will have lots of things to worry about. Even captains with 200k miles are worried. I am happy on someone else boat :) . Also it is about finding place to sail where it is comfortable for you. For some people it is french poly, for some meds, for some Caribbean. Nice champagne sailing days are minority in most places. Rest of the time it is fixing boat or fighting weather or money. Youtube, instagram etc is showing it better than it actually is. Don’t get me wrong, i love sailing my boat. Just highs are high and lows are low, nothing in between.

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arbitrageME@reddit (OP)

Yeah, you're right. I get about 1 hour of sailing for 1 hour of maintenance and 1 hour of setup. I do enjoy the maintenance and working on the boat, so it's not time completely wasted. But you have to "enjoy the suck" to own a boat. It seems from the rest of the answers here that if you want the picturesque smooth seas experience, better go with a charter

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celery48@reddit

I think you might be looking for cruising rather than racing.

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SecureVillage@reddit

Bouts of serenity, joy and relaxation interspersed with bouts of stress, fatigue, panic and chaos, mostly.

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Gl3g@reddit

If you would have had an autohelm autopilot on the Catalina 25 and some cushions you may have enjoyed it a lot more. Being tied to the tiller doesn’t make for a fun time. I’m on a very large inland lake and the auto tiller taking over hot half an hour means a date and I could plop down on cushions on the foredeck leaning back on the front of the cabin.

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phliff@reddit

You def need to get on some bigger boats… then add some friends and go kick it on the water :)

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hesmysnowman1@reddit

Just made another passage where we picked up bad fuel in Jerrys. We worried going east against the wind and the motor died as soon as we turned to sail. Sailed all night and it was wonderful. It’s always a challenge, but there are times when it is worth it.

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AriasVFX@reddit

I don’t think sailing ever gets “comfortable”. I think think that YOU need to be comfortable about the activity.

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wleecoyote@reddit

I don't understand this. I'm delighted to spend an afternoon heeling and making good time. And I also understand who's on my boat, and what their comfort level is. If I'm just out with the family for a couple hours, I'm aiming for comfort over speed.

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lucekp@reddit

Afternoon yes, week or a month not so fun

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wleecoyote@reddit

Exactly my point!

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grumpvet87@reddit

Having owned 5 beach cats, we used to put on harnesses and trap out over the side. DAMN uncomfortable. harnesses pinch the hips, and just sitting on the catamaran sucked. knees and legs right in front of you all day sucked.... It wasn't until my last 2 beachcats had custom "wings" (bench seats) that it became comfortable to be on the boat but it was never ending tack/gybe switching seats, waves, hike out, lean in .... not a pleasure cruise ... ever. Now it could be exciting, crazy, hull flying ... but not comfortable for me .... ever

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doned_mest_up@reddit

Sheet out. Conditions that leave me feeling confident but not comfortable are my favorite— I’m kind of jealous of you.

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SwvellyBents@reddit

The eternal question. Are you as one with the boat? Sensing every slap? Feeling every yaw? Rejoicing when you recover from a heavy roll and gleefully scampering onto the foredeck to change headsails or reef the main at night as the boat pitches steeply, during a squall, in the dark of the moon? Hearing the rigging sing and checking all turnbuckles every watch? Trimming with every veer in the wind and hand steering throughout the watch for the thrill of it? Or do you want the Sunsail charter in the BVI with a paid crew and pre mixed Painkillers in the cockpit at sunset?

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penkster@reddit

It's a lot like camping or any other 'outdoor' sport. Your comfort depends on how much gear / space / time / money you put into it. I've spent time on 29' racers for 3-4 days straight, and it was 'okay' - not particularly roomie, but fine. I just spend a week on a 44' cruiser, and it was downright luxurious. The short version is 'bigger is more comfortable'. but it's also more expensive. And a lot more responsibility and work. It's all a balance.

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spongue@reddit

I find it's only relaxing when I'm not in charge, haha

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WasterDave@reddit

You can always get a skippered charter....

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