Casting choices | TheaterFire

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watanabe0@reddit

Some of you are so incapable of parsing nuance and so scared of sex I swear to god

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I mean, let's be real here, most of Tumblr would also say he's just being an old creep. Then one person would roll in with a lengthy post correcting it, and it would get screenshotted and shared here.

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watanabe0@reddit

Disagree. Tumblr would know the post was a comment on Rick Berman, not on Hansen, and we wouldn't even be here.

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Johnsendall@reddit

“I jerk off to her on the daily, Jeany-boy.” - Admiral Hansen.

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watanabe0@reddit

"I can smell your cunt" Hansen to Shelby, apparently.

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Johnsendall@reddit

https://i.redd.it/v3b0xh19oi8f1.gif

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watanabe0@reddit

Correct!

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zozigoll@reddit

Thank you

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Capable_Sandwich_422@reddit

This actor played “God” in Final Frontier.

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amglasgow@reddit

I guess he figured out what he needed a starship for.

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Aq8knyus@reddit

It is just another way for the character to call himself a silly old fool.

He realises how immature and ridiculous his feelings are and laughs them off in private to an old friend.

It read to me more as self deprecation and a man catching himself on.

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Indiana_harris@reddit

Exactly, I think alot of people can get very triggered by the term “fantasy” immediately assuming some wild and raunchy mental porno.

In reality imo, the more old school term for fantasies of this kind is the general imagining of “what if”.

I think this line definitely reads as a bit of self deprecation of an older man acknowledging that if he were younger it could be a different story. But he’s old, and any mild or brief consideration of “what if” is just something silly and possibly slightly tragic.

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Lothar0295@reddit

For real. I don't remember context of this episode but knowing it's Star Trek, "Old man's fantasies" probably means "What I would give to be my young, bold and aspiring self again."

They've been there, done that. They don't have the same fire they once had.

Heck, this is one thing explored about Picard at a couple points in the series - how in his brash youth he nearly failed his own heart, and how he has tempered his fervour with an appropriate amount of caution and a strong emotional check.

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Indiana_harris@reddit

Pretty much.

His “old man’s fantasy” is very likely/implied to be him, 20-30 years younger or more, fit and healthy, still climbing the ladder of leadership. And in exactly the right time of life when the connection and friendship he’s developed with Shelby would’ve have the chance for something more.

It’s harmless.

It’s the same way you sometimes get older women who see a strapping young lad and suggest him as a possible partner for a granddaughter or niece.

There’s usually still an element of “oh if I was 20 years younger” that’s not just sexual, it’s the melancholy admission that the youth, and even the time in life when a possible romantic connection with someone like that is gone.

My Uncles mate worked high up in a Law Firm. He was probably just before 60 at this point. He ended up working closely with a newer lawyer to the firm. They both got on REALLY well and she was kindof his unofficial protege.

He basically admitted to my uncle that during a week away working on a case he let himself imagine actually having a relationship with her. They got on so well, seemed to match each others interests and activities well.

But he was probably 58 or 59 at this point, and she was 30 I think.

He said he thought the chance for something definitely came up between them but he didn’t act on it. And he said when he got back from that week he came back to reality that if he started something and even if she said yes….he’d be the “silly rich old fart with the hot girlfriend” the joke, and that realistically it wouldn’t work long term.

It was a brief fantasy that if he’d been 15 years younger he would’ve had a chance at.

Did work out well for him though as they stayed close as friends and colleagues and he ended up meeting a woman about a year later who was late 40’s that he’s been together with for like a decade at this point.

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amglasgow@reddit

Sounds like a stand-up guy, a lot of men would have tried for exactly that kind of relationship.

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Detroit_debauchery@reddit

He’s talking specifically about a young woman here

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RolandDeepson@reddit

I don't remember context of this episode

Egad!!

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MakaylaAzula@reddit

Of course people are going to view it in a creepy light. This is the same show that has Beverly describing a wet dream and then saying: “I fell asleep reading a particularly erotic chapter of my grandmother’s journal”

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Rooster_Fish-II@reddit

I agree with this take. He’s not being a creep, he’s recognizing that he’s old and not in his prime. Riker and Shelby are the future. Young Commanders on the verge of taking the reins from old men like him.

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ElonsPenis@reddit

Speaking of fantasies, want to watch me be Dixon Hill for an hour? I promise you no malfunctions this time.

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Sue_Generoux@reddit

OP, nothing triggers the fanboys like bringing up that line. Watch...

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andychef@reddit (OP)

Hoboy you are right.

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Tedfufu@reddit

I thought it was a humanizing element for the old man. He admires Shelby so much that he's crushing on her while acknowledging that it's a stupid fantasy, and by calling out the fantasy for what is, he is signaling that he's close enough to Picard that open up in a way that makes him look silly because they have a level of trust and they're not simply two professionals talking.

At least that's how I read the scene.

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trer24@reddit

Such a strange line that feel so out of place. I wonder why Piller, Moore and the other writers didn't think twice about that line. And it doesn't do anything for the story at all.

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qlanga@reddit

I genuinely don’t understand why this comment is downvoted. If there is some crucial context provided by this line, can someone please explain? What does it do for the story?

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SituationThen4758@reddit

I really enjoyed Admiral Hanson, one of the best Admirals.

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One_Rope_5900@reddit

You seem quite taken with her J.P....

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BitterFuture@reddit

"The fight does not go well, Enterprise."

Understatement is a key part of calm leadership.

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NoodlesMom0722@reddit

Is this post about:

The casting of the Admiral Hansen character?
The "old man's fantasy" line being spoken by the actor cast as Admiral Hansen?
The casting of Patrick Stewart?

What "casting choices" are we supposed to be discussing here?

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RolandDeepson@reddit

I'm of the inkling that this might've been a reference to Dennehy as Shelby, with Berman as a dickhead.

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Johnsendall@reddit

“Computer: Erase Holodeck program history and delete Shelby Program 69” - Admiral Hansen

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SecretCoffee4155@reddit

Am I the crazy one here, or are all of you talking about the contents of the actual episode missing the joke entirely. The post is titled “Casting Choices”, and the Closed Captions read, “Just an old man’s fantasies,” while the Executive Producer, who would be in on the casting choices, is listed as Rick Berman, who was known for being a misogynist.

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NoodlesMom0722@reddit

With no text in the post to give it context, everyone is free to interpret this post however they want to. That's why it's important to give context with any post.

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42turnips@reddit

Yes this. I figured that is what the joke was but not sure as Op left it too vague.

I love Star Trek but not very informative on the behind the scenes

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wanttobeacop@reddit

Yeah I thought this was the joke too lol

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pacman404@reddit

i dont get it?

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sarcasticbaldguy@reddit

You have to look at the entire image and compare it to the post title.

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pacman404@reddit

Yeah I'm aware of how vision, logic, and reasoning apply to posts such as this bro lol, I don't get it

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NoodlesMom0722@reddit

Same. And I watched this episode when I first aired.

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carrobucks@reddit

always interesting to see a perfectly good post filled with annoying comments

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JaladOnTheOcean@reddit

“I don’t need your fantasy admiral!”

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Self-Aware-Dinosaur@reddit

Re-watching any show from the late 80s and much of the 90s is fascinating. This line, which was awful and should have been re-written, is an example of this. It’s just men not being able to write anything remotely female related.

Picard: you seem quite taken with her. Hansen: I remember when I was young and had her drive….not unlike your first officer

That segues into the Riker discussion.

The original line absolutely can be interpreted to him knowing he’s too old to fuck her. Any defending on said line is more of a commentary on those people not being able to come to the reality that this was meant to be Hansen having a boner for her.

My other example is Geordie taking off his visor in Season 1 saying how beautiful Tasha Yar was. The stereotypical black man finds white woman irresistible.

I love TNG, but some of the writing is shit.

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YYZYYC@reddit

You should read TMP novelization and understand how far advanced and different things are when it comes to human and other species sexualities etc.

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crookeymonster1@reddit

ahh the 90s, when everyone wasn't so easily offended by absolutely everything

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BitcoinMD@reddit

The president of the united states mentioned the Simpsons as a national threat. They weren’t allowed to have gay people in shows.

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crookeymonster1@reddit

what's that got to do with that scene

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Acceptingoptimist@reddit

It was a very very different time (the early 90s). Sure, there's no indication the admiral ever stepped out of line or was inappropriate with her. But I really think if Gene Rodenberry truly believed we were more evolved as a species (and we had a completely realistic holodeck to get our urges out) this conversation shouldn't have happened at all.

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sacredlunatic@reddit

I always took things like this in Star Trek to be an indication that we had moved so far forward that there was no longer a power differential between men and women in society and so it wasn’t such a big problem. The rules we have now suit today. In a more enlightened time they might not be necessary.

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hbi2k@reddit

I'm less concerned with the gender dynamic, or even the age gap, and more concerned with the fact that she's his direct subordinate. It doesn't take a gender-based power differential to make that a little creepy.

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Hypnotician@reddit

When Admiral Hansen lost to the Borg at Wolf 359, I don't remember Shelby reacting much to his demise. They just focused on Riker's face when she mentioned the USS Melbourne.

All I heard was the sadness in her voice when she saw the ships on the screen. "The Tolstoy. The Kyushu ... The Melbourne."

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watanabe0@reddit

Probably because the Melbourne was the ship that Riker was offered, not the ship that Hansen commanded.

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Hypnotician@reddit

I know. Riker knew that he'd dodged a bullet there. I think that was why the Melbourne had to go - the story was pointing out that Riker was Number One for a reason, and that reason being that he was pivotal in saving the Federation at that point.

The Borg should have gone after Riker. If he'd become Locutus, nobody would have stood a chance.

But yeah, Admiral Hansen couldn't have known that, or maybe he did when he brought Shelby on board - she would have been safer with Riker than anywhere else in the Fleet. And if he'd given her the Melbourne, she'd have been a drone by now.

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Indiana_harris@reddit

You mean “Erectus of Borg” for Riker surely.

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Drakeytown@reddit

The final episode of TOS was about a short female redhead villain, a woman who'd gone crazy because she wanted to be in charge of things that women couldn't and shouldn't be in charge of-- and I'm convinced this must have had something to do wth some kind of dispute between Roddenberry and Lucille Ball

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watanabe0@reddit

Berman would have been 45 here.

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Constant-Box-7898@reddit

He dies in part 2. It's all good.

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Hypnotician@reddit

hat line was scary levels of gross. Conduct Most Unbecoming. If Shelby had heard that, I dare say she'd have begged the Borg to assimilate her.

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NiixxJr@reddit

I really don't think it's that bad I can't lie. Fantasy doesn't have to mean sexual fantasy and I don't know why everyone is jumping to that.

He is saying he knows there's no chance of a romantic relationship happening, but if he was younger he may have pursued one.... I don't think that's inappropriate to admit to your friend.

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Hypnotician@reddit

That line could still have been better, like maybe establishing a connection with Shelby's family. "She's so much like her Mom" or similar.

Old men do have fantasies, but honestly I don't believe he was picturing Shelby roleplaying a 12th level Paladin.

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Fine-Funny6956@reddit

You mean like this?

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Pot_noodle_miner@reddit

Peter, would

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Fine-Funny6956@reddit

“There’s a bald man across from me and I’m not fantasizing about him? What’s WRONG with me!?!”

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NiixxJr@reddit

Thanks for the context guys. My bad for not having every episode and line of the TNG memorised.

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SatisfactionActive86@reddit

As someone who is becoming an old man, part of “an old man’s fantasy” is being 20 years younger. so the admiral isn’t imagining his actual self with Shelby, he is imagining himself back at “the start of the adventure”, as Picard envied of Wesley. That’s why it’s an “old man’s fantasy” - banging a chick just because she’s hot would be just a “man’s fantasy”