Change my mind: 12 gauge and shotguns in general are very slept on in a world of 9mm and 556

[-]

Lawrence-Of-Alabama@reddit (OP)

You can size up or size down, long distance accuracy with the right load and choke are a lot better than people think, 00 buck being the same size and faster than most 9mm is largely ignored when with one trigger pull I can launch 9, 9mm sized projectiles. I have met many people that blankly state that “you can’t hit anything past 30 yards” with 00 buck. I don’t know why it doesn’t get more love

[-]

Cliffinati@reddit

30 yards is well within a well choked buckshot spread, past 50 I wouldn't use buckshot, even through it maintains lethal velocity out to 400 past 50 yards or so you get the issue of putting your pellets all around the target.

Shotguns are absolutely a practical gun for any shooting done within that

[-]

ma-p2371@reddit

30 yards is well within a well choked buckshot spread

for what application? In my experience its hard to maintain good pattern much past 30

[-]

THKhazper@reddit

Federal Flite Control 00 and their more elusive #1 buck shots, 25 yards, out to 30, beretta 1301 tactical or comp, 8 inch groups for the comp at 30, 8 inch at 25 for the tactical

[-]

VSM1951AG@reddit

Serious question. Everyone talks about “Federal Flite Control,” but I can’t find it anywhere at my local gun stores or even online. Did they stop making it? Or did they change the name?

[-]

THKhazper@reddit

Not sure if I am allowed to link to ammo sites. But Google Federal PD132

That’s the SKU for Federal FliteControl 00

[-]

VSM1951AG@reddit

Many thanks!

[-]

Cliffinati@reddit

You don't realize how close 30 yards actually is

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ma-p2371@reddit

I do though because I have patterned 00 for deer

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BigoteMexicano@reddit

Problem is that fudds and gun grabbers insist "You don't need an AR15, just get a shotgun". So even though shotguns are OP in real life home defence situations, the gun community has to push semi auto rifles to avoid siding with them in any way.

[-]

ChickenFeats@reddit

Why have a nuanced intelligent response when you could have a stupid knee jerk response, right?

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Forgetful_Jones@reddit

Size and weight.

So, why use a pump shotgun that carries 7 rounds of heavy ammunition that is slow to re load? Would you carry a colt lightning pump action rifle? The colt lightning at least holds 15 or so. No, you'd consider it antiquated. Why choose an antiquated system?

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ChickenFeats@reddit

I don't think most people 'carry' long guns at all.

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Forgetful_Jones@reddit

People are always saying that a shotgun is the home defense answer and it's just not

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ChickenFeats@reddit

It's too big and heavy to carry it for home defense?

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A_Queer_Owl@reddit

nah bruh, 12 gauge is stupid popular. what's really slept on is .410. high brass .410 buckshot is like shooting 4-5 rounds of .380 ACP at once. someone needs to design a rimless .410 shell to put in AR-10s for home defense. that'd be so damn effective.

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ChickenFeats@reddit

Get a saiga ak.

[-]

dutchman76@reddit

Ok Biden

[-]

ChickenFeats@reddit

Oh. Now I get why everyone all the sudden decided that shotguns are worthless.

[-]

lundah@reddit

It’s all about using the right tool for the right job. A 12 gauge is a good multitasker, but there’s some things it’s not the right tool for.

[-]

Topgun127@reddit

About the only thing a shotgun can’t do is long range (over 150 yards) my friend has a rifled 12 gauge “slug gun” I can hit within 2in at 100 yards everytime. The other thing it can’t do well is concealment. But everyone send a note or call your senators and congressman in the U.S. so we can keep the Short act in the “Big Beautiful Bill”

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TheHancock@reddit

I dont know, saw off the barrel or pack a judge and that’s not too hard to conceal.

[-]

Fine-Slip-9437@reddit

410 out of a 2 inch barrel is a stupid, useless meme.

[-]

Chieffy765@reddit

They're certainly fun, but i wouldn't want to rely on one for anything other than snakes

[-]

AssassinateThePig@reddit

Why are mfers so obsessed with shooting snakes? Even my dad. For every damn gun, he’s got his regular shells, cartridges, and then snake shot in all those calibers.

“Damn dad I know we live in the swamp but you’re not even afraid of snakes? What’s with all this shit?”

“Just in case I gotta shoot one some time, it’ll spread out see?”

“Yeah I know but why are we supposed to be shooting snakes all the damn time, you’ve got 1000 rounds of snake shot in .22? You sure you aren’t killing earthworms?”

“I already done told you, so I can shoot me a damn snake if I need to, it’s snake shot. Don’t you know nothing?”

smdh

I don’t like killing snakes unless they’re dangerous and a threat to my pets or kids, but it seems like a lot of people just kill any and every snake on their property.

Even a venomous snake I would prefer to relocate if it’s possible to do without causing a bigger problem by getting bit, so I just don’t understand the snake shooting compulsion.

[-]

ChickenFeats@reddit

They're scared of them. People do the same with coyotes.

[-]

Quw10@reddit

Overall length on my sawed off SXS is 20", I'm like 90% done with a shoulder holster because it just barely fit under a winter jacket lol.

[-]

Topgun127@reddit

My dad owns a Judge, but I’m hoping that Short act and the hearing protection act pass, then a “sawed off” won’t be against the “law” anymore. And it could have a suppressor on it too…lol

[-]

Double_Minimum@reddit

All I will say is that bill is awful, I hate the way they handle these things, and of the issues that will come up, I don’t think any congressmen is going to care if those parts get cut considering the much bigger issues involved in the bill.

It would be nice, but I will pay a $200 tax if it means getting the extra nonsense out of that bill, and not ruining our healthcare system via cuts to Medicaid (you will just end up with people at ER, no payments, and Medicaid and Medicare prop up our healthcare system significantly).

[-]

Topgun127@reddit

I don’t think we should pass another pork spending bill either. I’m just saying if they are going to ram it through anyway, it must include the 2 acts that will help us get some 2A rights back.

[-]

Rdubya291@reddit

No. The big bill needs to not pass and they need to stop trying to sneak giving our rights back into a bill that'll add 2 trillion to our debt.

[-]

Bossman131313@reddit

I take even larger issue with the fact that part of the bill will see public lands sold off. That’s a goddamned travesty if it’s allowed to come to pass.

[-]

Rdubya291@reddit

100%

[-]

TheRealMrSkeleton@reddit

nah, fuck that big butt bill. changes should all be seperate bills, not one big fat one with good and bad ideas i.e. selling off land to corporations.

[-]

cykbryk3@reddit

Can't really control over-penetration from 12Ga as well as a hollow-point pistol round.

[-]

Imoldok@reddit

Alaskan derringer, hell of a kick though.

[-]

-Mr-Draco-@reddit

They were never slept on they were just never brought to question. because a 12 gauge is a damn 12 gauge. No questions asked no 9mm vs 45 because it’s good at what it does and it’s reliable.

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JustLife299@reddit

4 gauge punt gun >12 gauge pump action

[-]

Trainmaster111@reddit

Not really.

I would argue that in modern day America 9mm, 5.56, and 12 gauge are the utilitarian loadout.

You've got defense, target, hunting, and with some mods competition

[-]

Batttler@reddit

the U.S. shotgun shell market was valued around $892.5 million in 2024 so, no, shotguns are not slept on

[-]

Severe_Islexdia@reddit

Man I know I’m ignorant to that form of economics but that seems really low for some reason..

[-]

SakanaToDoubutsu@reddit

The entirety of the firearms market is about $4 billion, so shotgun ammunition is about ~20% of all firearms related sales.

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Exact-Event-5772@reddit

Holy shit…

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CrazyIvanoveich@reddit

A lot of that is probably for water fowl. Those shells aren't cheap. (Same for turkey.)

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Educational_Stage459@reddit

If you arent loading your own shells... and paying $4/ea... smdh... shot shells are stupid easy to reload and sourcing cheap shot is not hard.

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CADnCoding@reddit

Tungsten is insane. $5 a shell. $1 Kent fast steel for me.

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Friendly_Eggplant327@reddit

me and my buddy went together this season, i used tungsten 5, he used kent: hit birds side by side- same result.

kind of pissed me off. $50 for a box vs $10. 🤣

[-]

CADnCoding@reddit

Yea, I bought one box and never again lol. Thankfully they come in close enough at my spots where steel is still carrying enough energy to fold em.

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John_the_Piper@reddit

I run Bismuth($3-4ea) in my vintage Brownings and Federal Speed Shok($.80-90ea) in my modern Silver. God that shit is just expensive

[-]

eldermayl@reddit

Quick question. Is your vintage Brownings full choke so you use bismuth with it? I have a vintage Mossberg full choke and would like to try bismuth with it.

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John_the_Piper@reddit

Yep, full choke! Bismuth needs a tighter constriction than steel so it does well out of vintage full choked guns

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eldermayl@reddit

Thanks! I'll try it next hunting season.

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John_the_Piper@reddit

Bismuth is expensive but man it's super effective, and hunting with the old guns is super fun. My 67 Browning with the 32" barrel and full choke hits like a flak gun when I'm pass shooting.

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eldermayl@reddit

I got an old Mossberg 500 with a 38 inch barrel ( no typo). Will use it next season for sure.

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John_the_Piper@reddit

Heck yes! I almost bought a Marlin "Goose gun" bolt action 12 gauge with a 36" barrel a few weeks ago. So much fun.

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Karvanenkorva@reddit

Tungsten in Finland is usually 11€ per shell. So you got it cheap

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DutchGoFast@reddit

You know that the Hindus have an entire story in their holiest book about how fucked you are if you shoot birds for fun right? Im talking about damned to horrific levels of godly retribution.

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PoorBoyDaniel@reddit

You know the term "sports shooting" doesn't refer to killing animals for sport, right?

[-]

Raeyth420@reddit

They shit in their Holy River

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mellow_low2003@reddit

Stfu

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Cliff_Dibble@reddit

Good thing I'm not Hindi.

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asunetta@reddit

irrelevant.

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CrazyIvanoveich@reddit

Nee, niet voor plezier. Ik eet ze.

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tcarlson65@reddit

Most is target ammunition. Trap, skeet, sporting clays, 5 stand, bunker.

If you look at the dollars for conservation brought in by Pittman-Robertson the majority comes from shooting sports and not hunting.

[-]

CrazyIvanoveich@reddit

Didn't even think to check that. Genius.

Do you happen to have a link? All I'm finding is reports of revenue generated per state.

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tcarlson65@reddit

The NSSF has some stuff in their website.

I am not sure if they have a more recent version of this:

https://www.nssf.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Target-Shooting-in-America-Economic-Impact-19.pdf

[-]

RedditPoster05@reddit

That’s why I always laugh when antis mention Money for the reason companies and advocacy groups push firearms. Theres no money in guns .

[-]

Double_Minimum@reddit

I am going to disagree with the idea that there is no money in guns. Now, poorly run gun companies, and Wall Street bought up groups may fail, but it’s a lark to say any non-American company isn’t making margins on its guns that are well worth it. And even USA made items, like PSA are making money on guns, not mags (until very recently) shows what there is real money, even on what are essentially discount brands.

[-]

tcarlson65@reddit

The profit margin on retail sales of firearms is very small.

[-]

True_Butterscotch940@reddit

https://www.nssf.org/government-relations/impact/

This seems to suggest it is, in fact, over 90 million. Am I misunderstanding?

[-]

SakanaToDoubutsu@reddit

I think that $90 billion is a bit misleading. If you look at the big three publicly traded firearms manufacturers in the US: Ruger, Smith & Wesson, and Vista Outdoors Kinetic Group, these three combined only did like $2 billion in total revenue last year. The report uses the term "economic activity", which in my understanding means that if Ruger sells a gun to Lipsy's for $200, Lipsy's sells it to Cabela's for $300, and Cabela's sells it at retail for $400, that $400 gun that cost $200 to make generated $900 in "economic activity".

I'm sure economic activity is an important measure for calculating tax revenue, because I'm sure the government is taking a cut in every single one of those transactions, but I don't think it accurately represents the size of the firearms industry.

[-]

Maysock@reddit

They're almost certainly talking about US consumer sales. Your source is talking about the entire arms industry, regarding govt contracts.

[-]

Technically_Tactical@reddit

Tesla's market cap changes by that much at least every hour.

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Severe_Islexdia@reddit

lol I’m not going to say it… I’m not going to say it…

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thejollyllama117@reddit

Nearly a billion dollars

[-]

Blbauer524@reddit

And thats only the shot shell market!

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Mayes041@reddit

Based on the loads he chose for the picture I think he means for defensive use

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FlashCrashBash@reddit

And 800 million of which were left on the ground of your favorite shooting spot next to some douche bags burnt out drier.

[-]

TheRealPaladin@reddit

You are technically wrong. A lot of people keep a shotgun under their bed, so they are, in fact, slept on.

Also, how did you come with the value of the U.S. shotgun shell market?

[-]

RedneckMarxist@reddit

I'm doing my part.

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MasterWarChief@reddit

Not even. They are at an all time high with guns like the 1301, A500, benelli m4, Mossberg 590A1, and just so many more options we are spoiled for quality high end options and even cheap budget options are very reliable and built like tanks.

[-]

spicyfartsquirrel@reddit

Can forget for decades many also would get 500s and 870s for home defense. They have been a go to gun for home defense for 30+ years

[-]

Bear-Tear@reddit

Totally agree! In my view, shotguns fell out of favor for only a little while. When the old federal AWB sunset, everyone flocked to ARs and pistols cause you could get new production "high cap" mags again. Then, police agencies began swapping their patrol shotguns for carbines. But, that lull for shotguns only lasted a few years. Wilson Combat, Vang Comp, LTT, and the rest of the custom gun shops out there really helped bring their popularity back. Then, when Beretta got into the semi-auto game, that ended the aversion to semi-auto 12 gauges.

[-]

beavismagnum@reddit

I feel like you’re coming at this from a very tactical/internet trend centric perspective. Beretta has made semi autos for a loong time.

If anyone ended the aversion to tactical auto shotguns it was franchi and benelli

[-]

bl0odredsandman@reddit

Beretta got into the semi-auto game

Beretta has been in the semi-auto shotgun game since the 50s.

I think games like COD and Battlefield in the mid 2000s that helped bring back the love of shotguns with the Benelli M4. Then later Beretta brought out the 1301 which everyone loved. Now Beretta dropped the A300 Ultima Patrol. Getting a reliable, tactical, semi-auto from Beretta for under 1000 bucks compared to the 1500-2000+ for the 1301 or M4? Those thing are selling like hotcakes. I know, cause I'm one of the ones that bought one and it's fantastic. I think shotguns are more popular now than they've been in a long time, if ever.

[-]

spicyfartsquirrel@reddit

The capacity was part, a large part of why ARs took over is due to over penetration being less of an issue and the recoil is easier for smaller folks to handle

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UserM16@reddit

Own a bunch of AR’s and my two 870’s are still my favorite. I grow hair on my chest whenever I pump some 00.

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spicyfartsquirrel@reddit

I have a couple pump shotguns as well. For the house though the ar is my go too

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fordag@reddit

Absolutely.

Nothing you can reasonably use for home defense is more devastating than a 12 gauge shotgun. (Ok a 10 gauge... Good luck finding shells)

They are far more versatile as well.

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RoSearch1776@reddit

Actually use your shotgun. That will change your mind. Fire 300 rounds of 00 buck and tell me how you feel. I can do that no problem with an AR or 9. Hell, I just did with my 308. No problem. But the shotgun beats you up and it's uncomfortable to load and clumsy to unload.

[-]

BongRipper69696@reddit

For home defense I'd probably just stick to 9mm hollow points. 12g might get messy inside the house and god forbid I hit my air fryer.

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Ikora_Rey_Gun@reddit

yeah, do these people not know how much a sheet of drywall costs these days?

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A_Queer_Owl@reddit

yeah, 9mm goes through multiple layers of dry wall, but they're smaller and easier patches. also less likely to damage a stud enough to require it to be replaced.

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GermanDorkusMalorkus@reddit

Also if you hit a waterline or electrical, you have to open up the wall…

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A_Queer_Owl@reddit

so basically only use a shotgun for home defense if you rent.

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YeNah3@reddit

Or only if ur a good shot, use a lower caliber and will hit every pellet

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GermanDorkusMalorkus@reddit

Not if you want your deposit back

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A_Queer_Owl@reddit

considering how scummy landlords have become you weren't getting that back anyway.

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MandaloreZA@reddit

00 buck is smaller at 8.4mm vs 9mm

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A_Queer_Owl@reddit

yeah, but there's like 8-12 of them in an area the size of a grapefruit. you're either doing a bunch of patches or one big patch. I could've phrased the first comment better.

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MandaloreZA@reddit

fair enough. I prefer #4 buckshot. It either takes a massive chunk out of something in the first 20 feet or dissipates quickly.

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ratmanmedia@reddit

I would say 12ga isn’t slept on. I would say 20ga is slept on.

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ShoopdaYoop@reddit

75% of the pellets for 50% of the recoil

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YeNah3@reddit

small persons best friend for self defense

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ma-p2371@reddit

75% of the pellets for the same recoil because the gun is lighter, no? I think better option is shoot light 12 ga loads, especially considering how much more options you have for shells with a 12 ga platform.

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ksoltis@reddit

Most 20 ga are actually heavier because the barrel is the same outside diameter so there's thicker steel to make it a smaller inside diameter.

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Double_Minimum@reddit

And I am not sure why a lighter gun would produce less felt recoil…

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-spartacus-@reddit

Fuck that, my 20ga recoils harder than my 12 or my dads 10ga.

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Possible_Ad_4094@reddit

For those of us with shoulder injuries, we learned this lesson long ago.

Same reason we use semi-auto over a bolt action.

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SupraMario@reddit

VR82, can shoot it all day long...12g 870 and M4...noping out after like 50 rounds.

20G is the best shell.

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blueponies1@reddit

Just get super good at hip firing

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Spartapwn@reddit

But 150% the price…

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Cliff_Dibble@reddit

Where I'm at the difference between 12 and 20 is negligible. Now 28 or 410? Gawd awful.

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Parktio@reddit

online, 12 and 20 are within cents of each other per box. same with instore, at least in my area. .410 is about 16-17$ a box

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FlashCrashBash@reddit

28 gauge is the really slept on one. Its like .410's cooler older brother with a Mustang who buys you beer sometimes.

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jrragsda@reddit

The 16ga is the cool cousin that shows up at family gatherings every couple years.

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NotThatEasily@reddit

Right?!? 20ga is fantastic for home defense and everyone acts like it’s a pea shooter. Plus, 20ga lever actions are really fun.

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SneakyChief655@reddit

What about my beloved 16 gauge?

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SakanaToDoubutsu@reddit

The 10 gauge is a low recoil cheat code if you do it right.

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Lonslock@reddit

How do you do it right

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SakanaToDoubutsu@reddit

Mostly make sure the gun is heavy enough and the gun fits well. My 11-1/2 pound 10-gauge shooting 1-3/8 ounces of shot has about 20% less free recoil energy than an equivalent 7-1/2 pound 12-gauge shooting 1-1/4 ounces of shot.

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MandaloreZA@reddit

10 gauge is peak. I only wish the shotshell companies would reintroduce 2 7/8 lead shot for plinking with 10ga.

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SakanaToDoubutsu@reddit

I get the 1-1/4 ounce 2-7/8" cartridges from RST whenever they're available, and those things out of my 11-1/2 pound auto-loader is easily the most pleasant trap gun I've ever shot. I've let people shoot the "mighty 10" with these, and the look of disappointment on their face when it's not at all what they expected is so funny to me.

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AlcoholicOctoBear@reddit

20ga lever action is hands down my favorite range toy.

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blackknight16@reddit

Which one do you have? I’m not familiar with any of the brands I’m seeing online…

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AlcoholicOctoBear@reddit

It's an old Ithica lever single. Not a repeater. Still fun though.

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A_Queer_Owl@reddit

(sunken skeleton.png labeled ".410")

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SukOnMaGLOCKNastyBIH@reddit

Thats cause 20g is a child’s training toy.

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ratmanmedia@reddit

You can still delete this comment

[-]

BaronvonBrick@reddit

Let me shoot you with one

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Macdaddy327@reddit

Sand in front of it if it’s useless

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boostedb1mmer@reddit

20ga dominates most skeet competitions I've attended. Its good stuff.

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Guano-@reddit

Woman ask for a home defense guns, 99% will be handed an air weight .38 by some fudd when in reality they should be given a 20ga.

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YeNah3@reddit

Slept on for what?

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Southern_Mulberry_84@reddit

I might be worng but isn’t the 12 ga the most standard home defense gun?

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Ute_Swoop@reddit

Glock 19 took that role now.

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ohpizzawow@reddit

Why not both?

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BaerMinUhMuhm@reddit

Definitely both

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JamesT3R9@reddit

Overall I dont think shotguns have been infected as badly with the hype machine / fanboy virus which may make them seen slept on. However, a shotgun is truly the lego of the firearms world. From attachments to ammunition types there are so many possibilities

[-]

tyler111762@reddit

Everyone needs a .22lr, a 12 gauge, a 9mm, a 5.56, and a .308

Its just the law.

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Ramses9333@reddit

There’s a comment I can get with, unless you’re a criminal then you can just get these 00 Buck at the rate of semi-auto

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Novel-Counter-8093@reddit

oh, they definitely are. you get some quality slugs and put a rifled choke on a TS12 and you got a banger

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Slow_motion_riot@reddit

I have over 2k shotgun rounds that i frequently rotate out.

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Wicked68@reddit

Which numbers are the ones for Defense? If it doesn't say Buckshot, on the box?

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Agammamon@reddit

Shotguns are useful in a very limited selection of self-defense and hunting scenarios. But shotguns are widely popular and almost everyone who has a pistol and rifle also has a shotgun.

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a_single_legtuck@reddit

Well I can’t shoot sporting clays with a 9mm or 5.56

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NoNameJustASymbol@reddit

...or Whitetail shotgun season. One of the states and seasons/means that I hunt.

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Rocket1575@reddit

If its only role is to be a home defense firearm there are better choices, but out where I'm at in the middle of nowhere rural Michigan a shotgun is a jack of all trades. It works for hunting any game animal I could hunt around here from birds and small game to deer. Excels at predator control around the farm and it will do the job of a home defense firearm. If I could only have one gun it'd be a shotgun (but luckily this is America and I can have as many as I want).

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UserM16@reddit

Shooting AR’s don’t make me hard. 00 does.

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Swift_Legion@reddit

All depends on what you're doing man.

Self defense slugs or 00 goes a long way.

maybe even a little shirty for door breaching.

For everything else, 9x19 and 5.56x45 will always be on point.

[-]

BigIronOnMyHip45-70@reddit

How are shotguns slept on? I mean, I sleep with one, my bed shotgun. Shotguns are incredibly popular as well.

[-]

gecon@reddit

They’re not as popular with the online, tactical crowd. However, they’re popular with casual gun owners because they’re cheap and effective. You can get a maverick for $200 and a couple boxes of buckshot for $10-$20. That’s a lot cheaper than getting a handgun or AR15.

Shotguns don’t appear as popular because the people who own them aren’t influencers or active in online gun forums. They just see the gun as a tool, not unlike a fire extinguisher; you don’t see people arguing online over which type of fire extinguisher is better.

[-]

jman0916@reddit

Shotguns are great for shooting flying things, breaching doors, and for putting one big chunk of lead into something with less over penetration than a similarly sized rifle bullet. That’s about all they are better suited for vs a rifle or handgun. The lose out in capacity, weight, ammo size/weight, rate of fire, reload speed, projectile speed, and recoil when compared to rifles and handguns. Yes, 00 buck or a slug will do more physical damage to a target than 9mm or 5.56, but so will a Minie ball out of a civil war era rifled musket. Damage per round isn’t the only factor in an effective weapon, in fact using the least amount of force to get the job done reliably is usually the best option.

[-]

OT_Militia@reddit

Personally, I love the customization of the AR world, which is why I'm not the biggest fan of shotguns, however PSA is charging that with their 570 and I'm excited.

[-]

AlchemicalToad@reddit

I haven’t been as excited as I am for the 570 for any other gun that I can remember in recent history. Assuming it does what they claim it will do, it’s going to be an absolute game changer.

[-]

AcidRayn666@reddit

not slept on in this household, there are 7 staged around the house and 2 more in our bedroom, we have one of those headboard safes, move the magnet and it drops open, 2 ready shottys and 4 handguns, colts on my side, glocks on hers.

i love our shottys

[-]

47_Puppies@reddit

Jesus dude, what on earth are you and your wife going to do with 6 guns if something goes bump in the night?

[-]

HonorableAssassins@reddit

As extreme as they sound the idea of having guns in multiple places isnt that you use all 6, its that if sometjing happens theres something in quick reach wherever you are.

Now, my solution to that is a handgun in the office because its where i spend most of my time if im not in bed, so, two most likely locations at two ends of the house means something should be grabbable.

I could stick a gun in each room, but all thats really gonna do is give whoever breaks in a gun once they enter.

[-]

AcidRayn666@reddit

ahhh someone who gets it.

our home is quite large, hence spreading them out.

and for reference, we have been broken into twice, once no one home except my dog who took care of that, second we pulled up to the house, as soon as i came from the garage into the house we knew someone was home as we are quite particular on which lights are left on when we go out and the kitchen was lit up like a yankees game, grabbed the benelli in the laundry room, wife stayed in car and called 911, started checking the house but they already scrambled, cops arrived, did a full sweep. reviewed the camera footage and had a perfect shot of the face of a contractor who worked for us recently and his worker. they didnt get anything as it seems there were not there long when we arrived.

didnt need um, but i had them if i did need them

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JanewayColey@reddit

Yikes! Glad you were prepared.

contractor who worked for us recently and his worker

People don't realize how often it's someone who has already been to your home. Good on you for being prepared.

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Obviouslynameless@reddit

I could stick a gun in each room, but all thats really gonna do is give whoever breaks in a gun once they enter.

Only if they find it

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AcidRayn666@reddit

correct. all are well hidden in plain sight

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AcidRayn666@reddit

lol, those are just home defence items staged accordingly, and all secured, no one that does not know where they are is not finding them.

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DasKapitalist@reddit

Graboids, obviously.

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ma-p2371@reddit

ever heard of the akimbo perk in cod?

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DannyBones00@reddit

I see shotguns the same as I see 1911’s and revolvers.

They’re cool, sure. But they’re antiquated.

If you’re a non-hunter who has guns for SHTF and personal defense purposes, and truly see firearms as a tool and nothing more, what does a shotgun do better than a comparable rifle, be it bolt action or auto loading?

You could probably try to make the same argument about bolt actions, but they do have all manner of advantages. Accuracy. Reliability (not worrying about it cycling.) Being lighter and smaller if you’re in like rough country or brush.

Shotguns are cool. If you hunt, especially in states that require shotguns, there’s probably a use case. But if you’re thinking about self defense/SHTF/whatever, other than as a breaching tool I’m not sure I see the point.

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arethius@reddit

Next you're gonna say something really controversial like 22lr is a good practice round for the cost

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Comfortable-Job-6236@reddit

No they are not stop the 🧢

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drteq@reddit

I don’t think shotguns are slept on they just aren’t that exciting - I don’t know anyone with a 9mm who doesn’t also have a shotgun

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nicefacedjerk@reddit

What isn't exiting about a shotgun? It can blow things in half and launch 1 ounce projectiles at gongs.

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drteq@reddit

Of course they are exciting, but you see less posts on them because there is something like 150 models of shotguns in production vs 900 9mm options.

I was implying exciting in the sense of new innovations and models occurring. It's less exciting to continue to post about them due to the numbers. There are 2-3x more new 9mm in the last 3 years, and the new shotgun models tend to just be the same thing with a few updates.

You just see less people posting about them since the most common versions have been around for 60+ years and.

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nicefacedjerk@reddit

That's a great point.. It's a pretty stagnant market compared to handguns and AR platforms.

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indiefolkfan@reddit

That'd be me. I've been meaning to get one for a while but then I keep ending up spending my money on mouse guns and pocket pistols instead.

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Average_Sized_Jim@reddit

The issue that I have with shotguns is how difficult it is to practice with them without access to private/BLM land to shoot on. Most ranges allow slugs on the rifle range or birdshot on the skeet/trap range, and nothing else. No range I have ever been to allowed the use of buckshot.

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DasKapitalist@reddit

What kind of fudd range doesnt allow buckshot?

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Average_Sized_Jim@reddit

Every one I have ever been to. Even ranges that allow machine guns.

I don't think it is so much a "fudd" rule as an insurance stipulation. Whoever underwrites the liability probably gets cold feet when they think of a shot pattern of projectiles that have sufficient energy to leave the property.

Now, there is a range near me that bans FMJ ammo. Not steel jacketed or armor piercing - just regular old hardball. I have never been, because that is a moronic fudd rule.

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Revolutionary_Day479@reddit

That’s weird because the steel jacketed and AP rounds at least make sense to me the reasoning behind banning them but regular ball ammunition

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Csharp27@reddit

The shotgun world is a pretty separate thing from the pistol and rifle worlds which are often grouped together. I grew up only with shotguns, we’d go to the shotgun range, bird hunt, lots of sporting clays, all stuff that’s totally separate from the pistol and rifle side of the gun world, and often use completely different ranges. The shotgun world is alive and very much thriving, you might just not see it very much if you’ve only done pistol and rifle shooting.

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getoutnow2024@reddit

My local range won’t let me shoot them indoors.

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burner118373@reddit

Pistols poke holes in people, rifles put holes through people, shotguns take large chunks of a person off their body and onto the floor

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deelowe@reddit

I've been convinced that ammo capacity is the most important factor (within reason). My home firearm of choice is a small ar 556

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whiskey_tang0_hotel@reddit

A KSG can hold 14 rounds. That’s a lot of 00 buck.

I’ve got one of those and an AR ready to go. Never hurts to have extra coverage.

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HybridVigor@reddit

A Tavor TS-12 holds up to 15, but is still California legal because of its weird design.

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Quw10@reddit

I was gonna say mossberg has a mag fed pump action that's been out a little while but holy hell are they proud of those magazines

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Zixxus@reddit

You will overpenetrate your walls.

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deelowe@reddit

You're right. Dry wall is impervious to 1/4" balls traveling at 1200fps.

This is such a ridiculous point. Unless you're using birdshot, it doesn't matter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg2ba_pVG6w

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imapeacockdangit@reddit

A 20 gauge with 8 shells containing 18 pellets each is 144 rounds getting thrown at your target. It has hella capacity. :)

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SeaTry742@reddit

Annoying guy with an annoying personality and dumb training

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Chieffy765@reddit

Fun quote though

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Monk-E_321@reddit

Got to love a good Clint-ism, lol

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phryan@reddit

During WW1 the Germans accused the US of war crimes for using shotguns, Germany was regularly using chemical weapons at the time.

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Rip1072@reddit

Still not a "war crime the 1st time."

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Threather19@reddit

Clint Smith

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legion_2k@reddit

Shhh

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PositiveRoutine2944@reddit

Well yeah they are big as fuck

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Shoot24x7@reddit

I just came here to say that people sleep on 15 pellet 3 inch Magnum 00 buckshot.

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TheRealLarryBurt2@reddit

However sleeping on a 12 gauge is dumb af. I own several for different purposes.

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KccOStL33@reddit

They're not slept on and absolutely have their place but in terms of modularity, magazine capacity and usability for certain shooters in terms of felt recoil they're just not for everyone.

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DishResident5704@reddit

12g is the working man gun.

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JackFuckCockBag@reddit

I live way out in the swamp so my go to is my shotgun and not my AR. Lots of nasty critters around here.

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Glittering-Ad6911@reddit

Custom made. Lonestar arms.

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blackbeardpirate25@reddit

There is a reason why most police departments only issue rifles now and very few have both. Shotguns are nice but you can do so much more with a rifle. Also with different size of officers a rifle with adjustable stock is easier.

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Redrum_71@reddit

Most of the really cool shotties are banned where I'm at, so I'm limited to pump actions. The DP 12 is on my wishlist. I've wanted one for 8 years, but I haven't found myself able to justify forking over $1600 for a shotgun.

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Lawrence-Of-Alabama@reddit (OP)

Where are you from, surely can’t be US

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Redrum_71@reddit

Northeast blue states are as bad, if not worse than California.

Pretty much the only semi auto shotguns you can own are tube fed waterfowl guns.

Anything tactical or with box/mag feeds are illegal.

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Provia100F@reddit

Keep sleeping on them, shotguns pretty much suck

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Next-East6189@reddit

‘Shotguns are slept on’ lol

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GhostC10_Deleted@reddit

Of course it's slept on, it's right next to my bed.

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Paulie_Berserker@reddit

Seems to me like the OP might be considering the need for this type of ammo. While you have a pistol on you most times if not all, a 12 gauge assures the threat will go away quickly. if you are at home and a "need" arises indoors or outside, the old boomstick will be a good choice to have in your hands when you go to take a look. Anything that's much past your yard and you'll want a long arm.

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gunmedic15@reddit

Shotguns will remove a chunk of shit from your opponent.

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manieldunks@reddit

This guy is a riot

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SeaTry742@reddit

He’s annoying and his tough guy character isn’t entertaining

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ExistenceIsPain1@reddit

This is what I came here to post.

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GreyFob@reddit

Capacity and range

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IMA_5-STAR_MAN@reddit

Shotguns are my first obsession. I managed to grab a 1954 Browning A5 for $125 a few years ago. God I love that thing!

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Lawrence-Of-Alabama@reddit (OP)

Looking for a Remington model 11 or A5 to make a Rhodesian riot gun with. Did you just get lucky with it?

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IMA_5-STAR_MAN@reddit

Got lucky. Some old timer just looking to sell and I'm always open to good deals.

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Hot-Refrigerator5729@reddit

I can’t reach as far as I’d like to with a shotgun. That, and between all my pets and family living in my house, missing with a shotgun could be a devastating mistake

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BlairMountainGunClub@reddit

Paul Harrell's video "shotguns don't suck" speaks for me.

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TheRealPaladin@reddit

I miss Paul. :(

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Cliff_Dibble@reddit

We lost a good one. :(

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CommercialBus619@reddit

Shotguns are only slept on because I keep mine under my bed

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CajunTorpedoman@reddit

Yes.

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Revolution37@reddit

There is essentially no scenario where I would ever grab the shotgun as my choice of gun if my rifle was an option. The rifle is more accurate, has longer effective range, is easier to shoot, is quieter, more maneuverable, carries more ammo, and the projectile is going to do damage to a person.

12 gauge shotguns have their role (I have a Beretta 1301 that I absolutely love) but they don’t do anything novel over the AR.

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Saint-Ecks-Isle@reddit

Is that 00 buck or 4 buck?

Where the hell you get Shorty shells in 00 buck? I wanna know.

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goat-head-man@reddit

Federal Ammo. I like the #4 myself.

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arc_oobleck@reddit

They will be the largest market share increase in the next 7 years. Drones and robotics will make sure of that.

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Ikora_Rey_Gun@reddit

Drones and robotics cameras, but if the robots are using radar/lidar, we're gonna need something a little more AP

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Forgiven4108@reddit

What does that even mean?

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ShotgunEd1897@reddit

Shotguns don't get much attention.

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Cole_Cash_Grifter@reddit

not slept on by me

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ThatBeardedHistorian@reddit

For me, one of the major concerns regarding home defense is ensuring that I'm running a platform that will fo as little damage as possible to material if I miss. I live in a suburb. So 5.56 with the right loads means that if I do miss, that round isn't going to possibly kill a neighbor.

Plus, with an AR-15, I've 30 rounds and basically no recoil in a package that's lighter than most 12ga shotguns.

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CosmicStatic223@reddit

Dude every single old guy has one of these in his bedroom for self defence they are not slept on 🤣

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FlavMink@reddit

I used to work at big5 and anytime we got a Maverick, people would be lined up outside. I don't think so bro

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Bubbabeast91@reddit

The capability of a 12 gauge shotgun is excellent when it comes to home defense and violent encounters. But shotguns take more skill to successfully run than any other firearm platform, and the amount of time and dedication it takes just to get good at loading them is insane. Even if you're GOOD with a shotgun, you're gonna spend just as much, if not more time, feeding the damn thing vs shooting it.

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SilenceDobad76@reddit

Theyre far more accurate than people expect and have far less ammo than people are willing to carry.

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Hooptiehuncher@reddit

Careful. You’re gonna get called a Fudd for not creaming your jeans everytime you see an AR.

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SirSquire58@reddit

I will not change your mind because you’re right

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DigiRiotDev@reddit

I don't think this is true at all. I pick up shotguns all the time. Excluding the ones I keep for my Wife and me, I've probably given away ~50 shotguns at this point to friends. They are cheap, effective (excluding a lot of the Turkish bullshit) and fun.

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pxldsilz@reddit

Theyre not, they're everywhere.

That's a cheap way to maximize lead sent down range in a given time. You can get a sbs or a pump action for less than a Nintendo switch, and they're a viable and timeless home defense tool... the trade of safety for hearing damage notwithstanding, I don't envy the person firing one indoors.

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eddie2hands99911@reddit

You only sleep on it once, at least if it’s loaded…

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kalashnikovkitty9420@reddit

i LOVE my a300. taking chunks outta fucks is nice.

but a suppressed 300 Blk has more rounds i can carry in a pocket, and hurts my ears a whole lot less. similar arguments for suppressed 9mm, and kinda for supressed 556, but suppressed 556 and 12 gauge still both suck indoors.

but ill never hate on a shotty. for newbs, if they are small, pumps are kinda discouraging. semis are great, but ones id trust my life to are close to a grand (a300, 940). while an ar is cheaper (450 for a psa build), carries more rounds, ands lighter with softer recoil

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Comfortable-Log3258@reddit

Shotguns are a great solution to modern attacks from drones. Just one example.

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Acora@reddit

It's great for its role, which is as a close-range (relatively) tool for putting down most anything that isn't wearing armor and you aren't trying to eat afterwards.

9mm is going to be functional within the same general range and is much less effective from a per-shot perspective, but is much more shootable and generally comes in a much smaller package.

5.56 will, even in a 11.5in barrel, be much more effective at distances beyond 100yds, be a much more precise tool, be much more shootable, and has the potential for armor penetration depending on the type of armor, the barrel length, and the ammo used.

Both 9mm and 5.56 will have a large capacity advantage over 12 gauge in any similar form factor.

But I'd least like to be shot with a 12 gauge. They make great home defense weapons. They're fun as hell to shoot (personally). They have a niche, and they're the best there is for their niche.

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doogles@reddit

CMV: "slept on" is a cliche that needs to retire.

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Farstone@reddit

I had to look it up. Damn I'm getting old.

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doogles@reddit

I would fist bump you, but muh joints...

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ultim8agent24@reddit

It's very easy to forget that we tac nerds are the minority in gun ownership, a majority of owners has hunting shotguns and rifles.

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Rip1072@reddit

Dunno, nothing says lovin' like a AR12 , 10 rd mag loaded with 000 hi brass. Yeah baby.

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DumbNTough@reddit

There are very few defensive scenarios where you would be better off with a shotgun than an appropriately-configured semiautomatic rifle.

General utility for hunting and pest control is a different story. Shotguns are great for that.

But there's a reason that no military in the world issues shotguns instead of rifles and pistols. Police departments increasingly do the same.

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Dung_Beetle_2LT@reddit

Nah. I’ll take 5.56 or 9mm. Hell I’ll send an invader back to hell with my AK if I’m feeling up to it.

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smoeman83@reddit

20ga is my favorite bird and rabbit gun

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WeAreTheVoid141@reddit

Agree I will stick with my 870 super mag and 54 pellet no4 buck.

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p8ntslinger@reddit

theyre worse than an AR in 5.56 for defensive use in every way except terminal performance.

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Tricky-Pen2672@reddit

I love shooting shotguns, but I like shooting any and all guns so…

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Neat-Ad-9361@reddit

Shotguns are king for home defense!

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blueponies1@reddit

I disagree. I feel like shotguns are still the American gold standard for basic home defense, especially for gun owners who aren’t super into it. I think it’s probably about equal with folks getting a pistol for cc and home defense, and I get your point that 9mm/an AR have become more popular. but I wouldn’t ever call shotguns slept on..

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Strong-Platform786@reddit

10 gauge is the best gauge.

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sovietbearcav@reddit

i think its because everyone wants to be tacticool these days and think theyre gonna be doing some red dawn shit in the next few years...or at least are training for it. with that consideration, a rifle would be vastly more useful due to versatility. is it as devastating as a 12ga? no. can it be small and more maneuverable in cqb (which is you should absolutely avoid)? most definitely...even with a suppressor (which your ears will thank you for indoors). can it easily outrange a shotgun? without a doubt.

in a mil/leo context, as far as leo, as long as you know you will only be doing close range stuff, a shotgun is perfect. but, if youre in a city, there is the possibility for longer range engagements which a shot gun is definitely not useful for. as well as guaranteed shot placement. shotgun do have a tendency to open up at range which could lead to some really interesting court cases. for mil, you have to remember you still have to GET to the fight, which means longer range stuff.

so not slept on, just there are many considerations.

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throwthisaway556_@reddit

Bro delete this, i don’t want shell prices going up

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spicyfartsquirrel@reddit

Shotguns are great in certain situations but not the best over all. The reason you hear about 9mm and 556 is two big reason. Both are easier to handle for a larger portion of the population. Then 9mm is easier to conceal and carry then any 12ga for daily carry. The 556 is a better home defense round by far and can reach out beyond the 12 ga range.

I say the 556 is better for home defense for two primary reasons. Firstly, the lower recoil makes getting back on target far easier. Secondly, the 556 due to its speed tends to over penetrate less then 9mm and 12ga. The round moves so quick that when the tip makes contact with a surface (person, wall, bookcase, etc) the tip slows while the body doesnt. Resulting in the nose often snapping off and the round ripping itself apart. Which leads to less over penetrarion especially the issue of round going through and out the other side.

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xdJapoppin@reddit

all depends on what your intended use case is lol. its always been that way

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Sad-Wave-4579@reddit

12 gauge is a jack of all trades in terms of close to medium range. Just because it can fill a lot of roles doesn’t mean it can excel at them. There’s good reason 12 gauges are some of the most commonly owned and even legalized around the globe whereas ar’s and handguns aren’t.

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