People who daily their cars with trac and ABS off, why?

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strongmanass@reddit

I feel like most people over estimate their driving ability.

😂😂😂

If I’m messing around in the hills of Mexico, I always turn them off because I know my car well enough to know how far I can go before I run out of talent and the nannies might upset the car too much for my liking.

Sometimes a little wheel spin off the corner is desirable and you don’t need stability control to keep the car stable.

But in daily driving they stay on.

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Pretend-Rock8293@reddit

kick in when you’re pushing the car and inadvertently cause you to lose control.

That's not a thing.

God I wish my friend that does stability and traction control calibration at a major OEM would get on Reddit to absolutely destroy this type of nonsense.

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DriftinFool@reddit

It absolutely is a thing. I have a Chevy van and the TC is a fucking joke. If I'm going around a corner in the snow, my reaction to it sliding is to counter steer since I have drifting experience. The problem is about the time I counter steer, the TCS kicks in and stops the back wheels from sliding, which leaves my front wheels pointing in the wrong direction and without the ability to feather the throttle to control it. If the TCS didn't let me get into a slide before it kicked in it would be fine. But the way it kicks in mid slide is dangerous.

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Pretend-Rock8293@reddit

Sounds like you're either over-driving or under-tired. Chevy Van, so Presumably the latter with some LingLongs on mud and snow?

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Why are you launching a car on public roads?

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87RegalTurboT@reddit

I daily drove my Sebring convertible for 12 years without traction control or ABS in Chicago weather all year round. You will be fine. Just learn how to drive your car to its limits.

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deathzombie15@reddit

I dont anymore with my current car, but back when I drove a Hyundai Veloster turbo, I noticed that traction control was very aggressive on it, ABS I didn’t have a choice and was fine with, but I noticed on multiple occasions that if I lost any semblance of traction over a watery surface, like hitting a puddle and just barely hydroplaning, I lost full control of the car, my throttle wasn’t responding correctly, nor was my steering. So knowing this, I suspected that if I lost traction in a more serious scenario, with traction control on, I wouldn’t have the ability to fully control my car and potentially get out of the bad situation

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PhilosophyMinimum549@reddit

in the winter it's almost better to have Traction control off so you're able to keep your momentum in thick snow.

My mother would frequently get stuck in her Kia due to it killing the power.

--my 1990 Volvo doesn't have ABS or Traction control and it isn't bad in the winter at all.

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hi_im_bored13@reddit

this is true for older cars - but most modern awd systems will use the brakes to transfer power left/right and know how to get the power to the ground properly

extreme_diabetus@reddit

My 2015 Jetta TSI is also trash with the tc on, no button to turn it off. It actually does a bit better in sport mode, but does the best in slap-shift mode

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_That_One_Guy_@reddit

Also, my '21 STI is in my opinion a death trap with Traction Control on in snow, but I also grew up on older AWD systems. I'd rather be able to control the vehicle in a slide, rather than it insist on wanting to go straight.

That's what my Maverick does. I'm used to Jeep XJs that are fantastic in snow in 2 or 4wd. The first time I tested my Maverick in the snow, I almost panicked when I added power to correct the angle of a slide and it just applied brakes instead. I had it in sand/snow mode that's supposed to allow more wheelspin, but it definitely doesn't like being sideways.

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Stunt_Vist@reddit

Turning off TC won't turn off the "electronic diff" (what some manufacturers call using the brakes in an open diff car to mimic an LSD) in most cars, it just turns off all of the power cut stuff that makes driving on soft ground dangerous.

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Steezle@reddit

A lot of cars now have a "winter mode" which allows for more wheel slip. But I believe the recommendations are not to switch to this mode unless the traction control is holding you in place.

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smitleyjd@reddit

I've been in some pretty new cars (23 Camry AWD) that did absolutely piss poor in the snow. The Camry wouldn't even attempt to go AWD until I turned off traction control. It would just spin one of the fronts. It made zero attempt to send power to the rear until I got in there and forced it.

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opkraut@reddit

Whenever I drive my parents' Outback or WRX I'm winter I usually turn off the traction control because my wagon doesn't have any traction or stability control and that's how I'm used to driving in the snow.

building a steam car in my garage with a crank to manually start it

Policy discussion is welcome. However, if your post involves politics AND CARS, please consider submitting to /r/CarsOffTopic.

UberPro_2023@reddit

I like shifters up my ass.

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mr_j_12@reddit

After having a near major accident in my parents car due to a nany feature failing (it was the cause of the near accident). Im glad my daily only has abs. I can adjust for things happening, loss of traction etc, but an esc failure causing me from steering right to INSTANTLY steering left for no reason i cannot. I was just lucky there was no one else around or not steering as much as i was to the right with dry weather or it would have been a major accident.

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tiempo90@reddit

Because if you're just driving normal, it's not really different from driving with them turned on

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RodRAEG@reddit

I like to have fun sometimes...

This is separate from normal driving. I don't understand your confusion.

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Unspec7@reddit

You said turning them off while driving normally is no different than having them on.

People are asking why even turn it off at that point.

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RodRAEG@reddit

It is no dofferent. If you're driving normally, ABS, STM, TCS, etc. aren't going to be doing anything.

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Unspec7@reddit

So why turn it off?

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RodRAEG@reddit

What part of "I like to have fun sometimes" are you struggling with?

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Unspec7@reddit

"Unpredictability? That sounds like something outside of normal driving

Oh you've never needed to brake because a kid decided to dart across the road, or someone wasn't paying attention and veered into your lane, or you didn't see a standing puddle of water?

Let's be real here, you're just trying to find an excuse to brag about how you don't need driving aids.

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RodRAEG@reddit

None of those is a guaranteed situation where driving aids will be utilized. Usually they're activated to save bad drivers from poor driving choices/reactions in those situations.

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Unspec7@reddit

None of those is a guaranteed situation where driving aids will be utilized.

Yes, but by turning them off, you ensure they will not be utilized in said situations. This is like saying "there's no guarantee that this medication will help, so I'm just going to not take it"

Usually they're activated to save bad drivers from poor driving choices/reactions in those situations.

Ah, there we go, your actual point. "I'm a good driver so I don't need it"

Remember kids, complacency kills.

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Unspec7@reddit

Ah yes, the gambler's fallacy. You know that people who commit vehicular manslaughter for the first time have never killed anyone before too, right?

What an infantile way of thinking.

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RodRAEG@reddit

Have you been in an accident?

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Unspec7@reddit

Doesn't matter, but nice try.

And for the record, yes. One. And had my nannies been turned off, it would have likely been a worse outcome.

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RodRAEG@reddit

Good on you for keeping the nannies on, then. It's important to know yourself.

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Unspec7@reddit

You should do the same. It's important to know yourself. You're not as good a driver as you think you are kid

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Unspec7@reddit

Good. You never wanna build complacency.

DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit

I turned off hill start assist because it's extremely disorienting as someone who spent a lifetime without it.

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pcase@reddit

I feel somewhat targeted lol, but I've also never had a car with rev matching.

I can't heel-toe worth a damn, but a simple rev-match done by my own feet does feel especially rewarding...

.....now I want to go test-drive something with auto rev-matching.

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infrowntown@reddit

Probably a 2021 WRX lol.

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ByronicZer0@reddit

What's wrong with practicing unassisted heel-toe?

Good skill to be proficient at. And it's fun. Rev matching is only really helpful if you're trying to set a lap time (ironically in my M2 it wasn't available with stability switched off, which was the only way to actually set a decent lap)

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Kaiathebluenose@reddit

In what way is turning rev matching off, the same as turning traction control off? wtf

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rc1024@reddit

I can see the rev matching thing as it's often based on clutch position, but you want to match as you move the stick. I guess once your get used to the timing it's fine but it's not the same as doing it yourself.

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Captain_Alaska@reddit

Do you mean traction and stability control? Switchable ABS is a thing for certain types of motorcycles but short of physically removing a fuse or wheelspeed sensor there’s no way to turn it off on cars.

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ALaLaLa98@reddit

non-ABS will outstop ABS every time, albeit with less steering control.

That's just objectively not true, (maybe) unless you're a perfect human doing everything perfectly, and it's nothing but an absolutely dangerous misconception. If your ABS is working properly, you want to have it on every time in the real world.

But that doesn't also apply to motorcycles*

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Captain_Alaska@reddit

Try reading what I said. I said on soft surfaces. You linked a video on hard pavement. On soft surfaces and a soft surfaces only a non-ABS vehicle will outstop ABS everytime without fail because locked tires dig into the ground.

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ALaLaLa98@reddit

Alright, I misinterpreted. I thought "as on" was an example, rather than the entire scope of your argument.

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TurboSalsa@reddit

I love how he keeps referring to pressure as "psi."

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Unspec7@reddit

Eh to be fair that's a misnomer used by a lot of people.

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lowbrightness@reddit

Thanks, made me laugh again lol.

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GodsFavoriteDegen@reddit

I turned mine off once. 50 mph, mash the accelerator in a straight line, oh look we're sideways. Let's just turn that back on and leave it there. There's no point in putting my kid's college fund into a tree.

I was at a Mercedes customer track event years ago and someone - operating against both the rules and common sense - turned off TC on whatever crazy AMG they had there. It was very dramatic. People yelled.

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dagelijksestijl@reddit

It’s afaik been something like 20 years when even The Stig had trouble controlling the E55 AMG (or was it a Ferrari?) with traction control off on Top Gear yet people are still trying on even more powerful cars

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Notonfoodstamps@reddit

‘04 Saab 9-5 Aero.

ABS module broke and so the car had no ABS, ESC or TSC for a good ten years until I could hunt down a new one (that model year had a unique module)

I feel like most people over estimate their driving ability.

This, they can't stop pretending and they don't give a fuck about their responsibility to the people around them.

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That's not how it works. Having good throttle control would mean constantly triggering the traction control in the car.

If you're accelerating and one tire slips a little, without traction control you just feel a little slip and keep moving.

With traction control, the whole car might suddenly kill power for several seconds.

Think which one would be better while trying to merge into heavy traffic.

Traction control removes the ability from the driver to modulate the throttle how it needs to be done. Slipping isn't an evil thing that just kills people, it's a necessary part of how the car works. It's not intuitive how it traction control reacts works, because a good driver who knows how a car will react to a slip by feeling the whole thing happen is a lot more accurate than a tiny computer that sees "one wheel slipping" and has no choice but to kill all power. It's a system designed to stop idiots from killing themselves, and letting them control the throttle in a slide is not ideal, so the car full stops.

I'm not talking about traction control in hypercars by the way, that's a different ball game. Just the average crap in an average car.

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5yrup@reddit

I guarantee you, many people can operate cars in normal traffic without having tires slipping all the time. Sure, tires slipping can be extremely expected in certain manuals and can be expected and even desirable. Normal highway traffic driving, no.

And once again, if you're still good at controlling the throttle, you'll be good enough to never get to the point of slippage causing the TCS to trigger doing just normal traffic things.

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CircleSociety-scam@reddit

You drive a corolla and criticizing others? Lmao

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RedYourDead@reddit (OP)

It’s a 300hp awd Corolla but sure.

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CircleSociety-scam@reddit

Lmao idc if its 5000hp. Its a corolla. Sit the fuck down

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RedYourDead@reddit (OP)

Damn, who hurt you?

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CircleSociety-scam@reddit

benmarvin@reddit

Another Corolla driver. These guys are everywhere.

Never said I'm mature. But my balls sag a lot more. Haha, you said "tit"

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Edenwing@reddit

You can’t turn ABS off in any modern car I can think of

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DaxDislikesYou@reddit

The only time I turn the traction control off on my Subaru is when it's snowing. It's a very stupid traction control for some reason and makes the car less predictable when conditions are genuinely slippery. Audi that shit never gets turned off.

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Random12multi@reddit

I have traction control off when I drive my Evox because it'll literally cut the power when I try and accelerate due to the tune, but I never touch the ABS or AYC settings. I just leave them on and let them do their thing

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ScheduleDry6598@reddit

lolololo... Some of us were driving before cars had ABS and would show you how to actually drive a car.

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ThrowAndHit@reddit

Certainly don’t do it all the time/daily, but my car has the TC come on way to quick, so when I know I’ve got to give it the beans, I can handle a little wheel slip (prefer a little actually) instead of TC kicking in and the car falling on its face when I’m trying to accelerate.

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Farmer887@reddit

My old truck 03 ram didn't have tc or stability. You just had to drive to the weather.

My 15 ram has both and the traction control is pretty intrusive I find. So it gets turned off quite often.

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GLC98@reddit

My car came no traction or abs from factory =)

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Pup111290@reddit

Because it's broken and I have yet to get a scan tool that reads those codes on a 25 year old car. It's also not a huge deal for me, I've only owned one vehicle that had traction control and abs, the rest either never came with the option or it didn't work so I'm just used to throttle control and threshold braking

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EICONTRACT@reddit

A lot of cars don’t have traction control or abs…

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officially_bruh@reddit

Couldn't turn mine on if I wanted to. My tuner diabled it after I installed a supercharger. He figured I wouldn't want it anyway now. He's right

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xGLOBGORx@reddit

It has never helped me. If you brake properly you can in theory out brake your abs, doesn't mean in an emergency you, or I, would be able to but technically could. I mind it a lot less than trac and usually don't duck with it but sometimes if it's too sensitive I turn it off.

I physically don't have TC or ABS in my car because it is old, but I barely have 100bhp to deal with (Miata problems) so it's not that big of a deal.

I tend to enjoy driving lower power "sporty" cars and so TC has never been something I've worried about. My previous car, with about 220bhp but lots of low end torque (it would spin its wheels in third at the sniff of rain if you floored it) had sensor faults which meant the TC and ABS didn't work and the TC never really worried me but there were a handful of times I noticed understeer (FWD car) that I had to physically correct which usually TC would have handled without me doing anything. I did have a couple of times where the lack of ABS caused problems and one in particular could've been a very nasty accident which happened at fairly low speed that really shouldn't have been a problem under normal conditions.

Overall, ABS I would have if I could and I really don't see the point in turning it off. It makes emergency braking infinitely safer and drastically helps with stopping distances in the wet especially. You only have to spend a weekend watching F1 to see how frequently the best drivers on the planet are locking up their wheels under pressure and how much it impacts their ability to drive at speed. Since I physically don't have it, you can be damn sure that I've spent some time on a straight, quiet road purposefully locking up my wheels to find out where the limits are, then I went back and did this in the damp, and the wet.

TC I don't necessarily need on the kinds of cars I have owned, but if you're considering turning it off then you need to put at least a small amount of time into learning how to correct common understeer/oversteer problems. Modern performance cars which have more weight and wider tyres will inevitably require more forces to break traction and so when they do go, it will be more dramatic and difficult to control than people might expect and you'll be that much more likely to let your car give nearest tree a cuddle. Unless you've got lots of experience driving without TC I just don't think it's worth the risk in high performance vehicles especially.

Fishgedon@reddit

I drive with them off because my car doesn’t have them, power steering at most.

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Sfekke22@reddit

Because my traction control/ESP is overly aggressive and pulls power right when it gets fun. It's FWD so it's going to torquesteer with 300bhp/400nm+ and I'm prepared for that when I floor it.

Tip or anyone in VAG product, hold the TC button for 5 seconds and it turns off all the way.

However I leave it on when it rains, roads are wet, I'm tired, etc. It's there when I want it and gone when I don't.

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Lopsided_Sugar_8360@reddit

Not sure how you can turn off abs on purpose. I drive my NC with traction toff only because the car has something like 160hp with sticky tires. I would never even try that in my old F80

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My car is old and doesn’t have that tech so it’s a natural driving experience and that is the way I learned how to drive. So if I am borrowing a newer car, I turn that shit off since I know how to actually maneuver a car and then it just feels like one of my cars at that point. I will typically leave it on around populated urban areas or long highway road trips though for safety reasons but I don’t need it

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crustetsyst@reddit

in my fwd car it’s off because the traction control cuts a lot of power with my big turbo. it’s a lot harder to lose control in it that a rwd car, especially with an aftermarket wavetrac diff.

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crikett23@reddit

>People who daily their cars with trac and ABS off, why?

I daily drove cars for decades that had neither ABS or any kind of traction control... so, it isn't that big of a deal. That said, in my current cars, I would leave traction and stability controls on when driving on the road (on track is a different story, but as they are often not that intrusive, I have left them on under some conditions, and on certain tracks). That said, in my experience, older versions of those aids can be very intrusive, and I personally found a few that I would definitely disable, as they would be more likely to cause problems than prevent them (fortunately, car makers have largely improved these systems). However, that is in terms of traction and stability functions... aside from an early '90s Audi, I don't recall any cars that allowed you to disable ABS (and basically see no reason to do it, as you can still try to threshold brake with ABS, just prevents you from locking up if you get it wrong).

>I daily drive my GR Corolla but in California traffic, I feel like driving with the assists off is asking for it.

"Asking for it" is probably a bit overstated. As I noted, I, and many others, have regularly driven for a long time in cars that didn't have such features. Most current versions tend to be quite good, and not very intrusive (certainly not in driving on the street), and are a good safety addition. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to do that, but would still say it isn't as problematic as you're making it out to be.

>Even for spirited driving, I can’t understand why people would drive with it off.

Agreed - as I said, in terms of what has been offered by most companies over the last decade and a half or so, tend to be systems that you would never notice in driving on the street, no matter how "spirited" you are. In a situation where you can go 10/10ths though, you are likely going to be able to do better without.

>I feel like most people over estimate their driving ability.

Absolutely! Spot on with that.

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aftonone@reddit

95% of the time I keep it on but when I autocross or do heavily spirited driving I will turn off TC. Lets me control and feel when the car is going to break loose instead of leaving it up to the car. It has its place.

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Throwawaymytrash77@reddit

Since when does any abs system have an off switch?

I kind of wonder if this is a generational thing. Millennials (and probably most of Gen X) grew up driving cars where ABS was probably the only assist, even then ABS wasn't a de facto standard on the shitboxes we learned on.

If you learn to control a vehicle without TC, you'd probably have driven in scenarios where you're more confident in your ability over a brand/model varying assist.

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VoodooChile76@reddit

This is a well thought out response here 💯

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UncleBensRacistRice@reddit

My car has like 170hp on a good day. TCS on or off hardly makes a difference and I enjoy sliding around in the rain and snow

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-Racer-X@reddit

If your car has torque vectoring etc

It can cause excessive wear of pads, brake over heating etc

So in cars like my fiesta ST the only option is to turn it off

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pcase@reddit

I used to think my '96 Volvo 850 Turbo had torque steer.... until I drove a Focus ST so I have to imagine the Fiesta is the same.

That Focus ST wanted to put you into a telephone pole if you slammed the gas. It was fun, I liked it. Yes, it's a bit of hyperbole, but..... it really did pull like crazy. Also, I love the Fiesta ST.... it's the perfect fun usuable car.

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Psygo@reddit

Always drove old shit boxes that either didn't have it or it was defective.

And well, now I'm just more used to it.

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SergeantBacon101@reddit

My car has a front biased AWD system, so it will never step out the back end under power. However, sometimes it will cut traction control in if there is heavy front wheel spin before it sends power to the rear wheels, which completely cuts the power for a second or two. Obviously this doesn’t matter for daily driving, but for any spirited driving I turn it off on the street to prevent that.

There is actually a mod that Mk4 owners do that automatically turns off ESP when you turn the car on

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UnmakingTheBan2022@reddit

You can’t understand? Then don’t. Let them do what they want. Why gatekeep?

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digiwarfare@reddit

Because none of my cars have those features.

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newtonreddits@reddit

E30?

My cars have early DSC. They're very intrusive and finicky, especially my E39 M5. I can take a corner at normal speed and see my DSC flash.

So to answer OPs question, it's because it sucks.

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boxyship@reddit

It's the only way to disable the auto rev matching on my M2 for some reason. I can't stand it rev bombing itself as i go across neutral

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ABS stays on, traction and stability control get turned off because you have to do that to engage launch control and I'm a bit of a hooligan.

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crashbandyh@reddit

If driving on a day to day basis you get the traction light on your car then you are a horrible driver lol. I daily my C6 and keep traction off every couple of days and never had any problems even in the rain.

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ViperThreat@reddit

Zero reason to turn ABS off on the street.

In my Supra I drive it in traction mode 90% of the time simply because it’s a one button push which disables the annoying ass lane monitoring/drift assist. I don’t hoon in my cars and it’s the quickest way I’ve found to disable that annoying system.

The 10% is whenever it’s wet - traction mode puts full power to the rear wheels, so yeah… push the pedal too hard, the car will spin out if it’s wet or raining in traction mode.

I never drive it or any of my other cars with traction control fully off (requires holding down the safety system button for a bit in the Supra ). Wish I could get it out to a track and try, but yeah no point to turn if TC completely in CA traffic.

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kartoffel_engr@reddit

I only turn my traction control off in the snow. I don’t like how the AWD system tries to respond. I grew up without it and learned how to slide around, safely and in control.

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brentsg@reddit

I’m with you. I use all the nannies even if only so I don’t have to kick myself later. I JUST bought a nearly brand new set of Pilot Sport 4s Star tires from a dude that totaled his nearly new M3. No thanks.

I will go to RWD and turn off nannies from time to time, but rarely and I’m picking my spots.

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Because I daily a 2000 Xterra that doesn't have any if that

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longgamma@reddit

Yeah it's overkill for regular driving. Modern cars have lot of power and low end torque. It's easy to lose control if someone under estimates the traction available.

Drifting in winter.

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