What would you choose - Staff at a unicorn startup or Senior at Amazon?
Posted by isthistakenornotlol@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 65 comments
Hi all, I am around 10YOE now and have worked at 2 FAANGMULA companies at mid level earlier in my career, and just finished interviews both to join at Amazon as L6 (Senior) and to be a Staff Engineer at a unicorn. I believe I did very well in both and should be getting offers soon. From levels.fyi and the job descriptions the startup will pay \~15% less than Amazon if I don't count the illiquid stock options (much higher base).
Considering that I don't currently live in the US but have plans to move there in a few years, at which point I would like to join a FAANG or equivalent company at Senior/Staff (not just transfer with Amazon though, as that will be worse financially due to lower RSU grant where I live), what would you choose? The startup title is higher on paper and I would maybe have more core responsibilities, but the scope of leadership/mentorship will be about the same (lead a team of 6\~8 people). Would the higher title be better on my resumé, or is Senior at Amazon more respected by recruiters if you are shooting for Senior/Staff positions at FAANG?
Bobby-McBobster@reddit
Unless it's really a top-tier tech startup, senior at a FAANG will definitely be regarded as higher than principal in another company.
That said, if you indeed get just 15% less pay counting at the startup but it's all base salary, that's a great offer.
edgmnt_net@reddit
My guess is you're still very constrained by the way they do business though, unless you manage to influence that too. Look at it this way... if it's more of a sweatshop area of the business, chances are you won't have the luxury to use more interesting yet less common tech or pick highly-skilled candidates as your teammates. Because they will want to pump money, scale development a certain way and pile up features and customers, that practically describes a lot of businesses that don't have a particular technical vision and rely on sheer scale. E.g. think you can do with a nice and tight monolith and without a few dozen microservices all over the place? Tough luck, they're planning to hire 50 juniors and have them create tons of custom features, so they are aiming for silos, that's already been decided and you have to go with it.
Maybe I'm wrong and you can correct me, but Amazon is huge and things are far from awesome in all areas, in fact I've heard claims that AWS itself is kind of a duct-taped sprawl in certain ways. There may be research, open source or other initiatives which concentrate talent and efficient, impactful work, but unless you land in one of those positions you kinda have to align with existing trends.
Bobby-McBobster@reddit
No you're saying nonsense.
IronSavior@reddit
I choose death~
dacydergoth@reddit
Pls don't, we, the glorious secret organization of EMACS users will accept you!
IronSavior@reddit
I do love me some emacs. What would my vi user friends think?
dacydergoth@reddit
They will bask in the reflection of your glory?
IronSavior@reddit
The best ones will, yes. But others may become resentful. I let it slip once that I thought vscode was "pretty decent". Some of my 2nd cousins still haven't spoken to me since.
dacydergoth@reddit
《 heresy 》
PickleLips64151@reddit
Well, since they're out of cake, I, too, choose death.
behusbwj@reddit
A “unicorn” implies something that has already proven to be valuable and leading in its market. If you’re just talking about a startup with some funding that self-described itself as a unicorn, go to Amazon.
isthistakenornotlol@reddit (OP)
Unicorn means the valuation is 1B+, nothing else.
behusbwj@reddit
Then just choose whats more fun
InvestigatorFar1138@reddit
Unicorn just means startup with a 1B+ valuation, which this one is. I’d say it is the leader on its market segment, but it is a moderately niche one so the number of users is in the low millions worldwide
ilikeaffection@reddit
Neither. Architect/Lead at an old warhorse of business, where we're an easy R&D write-off and nobody's on my ass because we're not revenue generators. Convert old legacy code to something actually maintainable, build out new features when necessary (not all that often), lead a team and keep them mostly on track between coffee breaks and trips to Dave & Busters and get paid a respectable 175-200K to do it.
Sit back, coast to retirement.
dsm4ck@reddit
Is it possible to learn this power?
dacydergoth@reddit
Yeah, don't be seduced by stock, ask for cash
dacydergoth@reddit
R&D writeoff got nuked, that's driving a lot of layoffs
ilikeaffection@reddit
KBKG | Proposed R&D Expensing Restored Under Senate Legislation
We'll see. It has a significant chance of making it back into law.
dacydergoth@reddit
Too late for a lot of my colleagues
anonymouse1544@reddit
Where can I sign up
dacydergoth@reddit
Amazon will eat you up, spit you out and exploit you
The startup will eat you up, spit you out and exploit you.
Which one pays more?
cr0w8ar@reddit
This, I can’t stress this enough, corporates don’t care about you. Go for mo’ money.
ImAJalapeno@reddit
Yeah but they'll probably get equity in the startup, they'll be owners!
BIG /S
Follow the money, both will have good and bad moments. Also Amazon in your CV > Random startup
Aware_Magazine_2042@reddit
lol. Today I learned that unicorn startup is some random startup.
Unicorn startups are pretty rare. There are like 5 every few years and you almost always hear about them.
Uber, Airbnb, slack, Pinterest, Dropbox, etc. those are all unicorns.
ImAJalapeno@reddit
Fair. With the information we have we don't know if it's the next big thing or your typical "we're disrupting the mango lollipop market" startup.
Sorry I've been hit too many times by hyped startups that believe they're building Uber but for X
Aware_Magazine_2042@reddit
Well they said unicorn, and this is an experienced sub, and the said this is for a staff role, so I’m going to assume they mean a real unicorn (billion dollar plus valuation) and not an overhyped startup
isthistakenornotlol@reddit (OP)
It is definitely not an Uber or Airbnb - there are a lot of Unicorns nowadays, about 700 on the US alone. It has a somewhat niche product too, so I don't think it will ever get to these 10B+ valuations
But yeah, I didn't think I would need to explain what a unicorn is in terms of valuation - this term is used a lot in tech media
Aware_Magazine_2042@reddit
I don’t think you understand how hard it is to reach billion dollar plus valuations. If they reach that point, they’re often doing something right(but it may not be tech! So be warned!)
You say 700 like that’s a large number, it’s not. 700 is an astoundingly small number. By some measures, there are 1,049,677 startups in the U.S., of these 180,000 are funded, and of that number 719 are unicorns. That’s .068% of startups are unicorns.
isthistakenornotlol@reddit (OP)
Fair enough - you did say on a previous comment that there are only 5 unicorns every few years though, and I misunderstood it as you overvaluing them. I'm aware that unicorns are rare (hence the name), but I'm still not 100% sold on it actually being a future market leader or anything - which is why I'm valuing the stock options at 0
drosmi@reddit
Also if you get lucky enough the impact of the stuff you work on at Amazon far exceeds the scale of almost any c-round startup.
dacydergoth@reddit
That's how they got the Imperials to work on the Death Star. Sure had an impact on Alderan!
drosmi@reddit
Fair point lol
berndverst@reddit
Fully agreed having worked at multiple well known corps, startups and in between. Therefore I'd actually recommend Amazon in this case. That's a lot more money for the expected case.
Optimus_Primeme@reddit
Titles at startups don’t mean anything. I went from Senior Principal at a startup to Senior at FAANG and got a 100% raise. Who cares about titles.
Life-Principle-3771@reddit
A Unicorn should be big enough that the title should carry some weight.
Senior at Amazon will probably have more scope but may also be more difficult and cutthroat
isthistakenornotlol@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I would say it is a decently sized unicorn, engineering team of \~100. Most of the leadership team has FAANG experience, and a few of the engineers too. From what both recruiters told me the scopes are fairly similar as well
dacydergoth@reddit
That tells me the equity pool is gonna be super diluted
isthistakenornotlol@reddit (OP)
It is not offering me equity in %, but as stock options - I'm not going to be a founding engineer or anything. Unicorn means its current valuation is over 1B
dacydergoth@reddit
Lolz. Last set of stock options I got evaporated when Cisco bought them. I dropped $15k on options supposed to be worth >$1.5M and in the takeover they dissolved the common stock and my options became toilet paper
dacydergoth@reddit
I mean Cisco really fucked up not returning my $15k because I work in a field where I get to recommend network hardware and I will never ever recommend Cisco again. That 15k they didn't compensate me for has probably already cost them hundreds of $ in lost business
dacydergoth@reddit
I worked over 18 months of 100 hour weeks and dragged the production systems out of collapse several times, and they totally fucked me over. Don't believe anything.
isthistakenornotlol@reddit (OP)
Yeah, which is why I'm considering the startup offer to be 15% lower than Amazon - that only counts its base salary, while Amazon is base + RSUs. I value the options at 0 to make my decision
fragglet@reddit
Can't believe you folks are actually using "unicorn" unironically tbh. It's a meaningless bullshit term made up by recruiters
bazingaboi22@reddit
No it has legit meaning. Namely that they can pay you
KaiZai@reddit
Unicorn just refers to the startup being higher than 1B in valuation.
Optimus_Primeme@reddit
I’ve been at 7 startups, I would love to sell you some “unicorn” stock currently valued at negative eleventy million dollars.
Brilliant_Law2545@reddit
Startup will pay less than Amazon but the base is higher? How can you land this job with your mental capacity?
isthistakenornotlol@reddit (OP)
It pays significantly more if I count the stock options at face value, but given that very few startups ever IPO I'm counting them as 0
Brilliant_Law2545@reddit
No your entire statement I quoted is logically incorrect. That was my point dumb ass.
kenflingnor@reddit
This is getting ridiculous
isthistakenornotlol@reddit (OP)
I've seen this term being thrown around, but just think of it as FAANG and adjacent companies with similar size
Careful_Ad_9077@reddit
Jr at a start up.
Sure I could roll.the dice and get into a decent team in Amazon, but if I am.that lucky id rather become a founder millionaire of a start up.
dacydergoth@reddit
Done 4 or 5 startups. They've all fucked me over
stoneg1@reddit
I worked at Amazon the teams are hit or miss, if youre willing to share the org i could probably give you its general reputation. Without knowing that though id join the unicorn, Jassy is an atrocious CEO and Amazon will continue to do layoffs as long as he continues to flounder in the CEO position.
08148694@reddit
If you want money and job security, Amazon
If you want impact and to feel like you actually make meaningful decisions, startup
jonmitz@reddit
There’s no job security at either.
Square-Application83@reddit
lol you get neither of those things from Amazon.
_myusername__@reddit
Unicorn if it has even a sniff at IPO. Imagine working at Airbnb or Uber pre-IPO. Also bc you’ll presumably have more impact and visibility than at Amazon
sky58@reddit
I'd pick staff at unicorn as you will probably have more flexibility in choosing implementation and less red tape on execution. Also Amazons PIP culture on certain teams isn't attractive to me in the slightest.
Square-Application83@reddit
This ^ I'm L6 at Amazon and looking for the exits now.
UncleSkippy@reddit
Whichever gives you a better quality of life where you get to do more of what you want to do and experience what you want to experience that isn't work.
AbbreviationsFar4wh@reddit
Underrated comment. Especially given the comp difference is not significant
Groove-Theory@reddit
I dont believe you should pick a job solely on how the ATS system in your NEXT job search will probabilistically select you, just for the first recruiter round.
I mean it's a difference between like.. idk, and 10% chance and a 15% chance? Maybe?
Its not worth it compared to all other factors that go into spending the next few years of your life at a job. Not just salary, but work life balance, growth opportunities, making sure the people you work with aren't toxic dickheads, your mental health, how it meshes with your family or loved ones ...
I honestly think you should really think about what you really want out of the next few years of your life (in general, including your personal/home life) and how each job will help or hinder that. Its more than just a title on a resume.
PM_ME_VEGGIE_RECIPES@reddit
Faang likes to recruit from faang at similar level. You'd need to be like VP of eng or CTO or high level sr staff to be comparable to senior+ in faang. Plus faang is a better bet for H1B sponsorship and stability, though it does impact your comp as you say. It's not an even choice, but there are good situations and bad situations on both ends and you need to figure out what you prioritize in your life