senior engineer gaslighting me, manager seems to be inclined to him
Posted by entoasalu@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 50 comments
the team i work with, has a senior and a couple of juniors. i made code changes and raised a pull request. for which my boss asked my colleagues to review. the senior and two of my juniors were reviewing my code. while reviewing my code and adding comments, the senior mocked me because the changes in my pr were suggested by juniors. and the juniors laughed at it. they were pretty much mocking and insulting me. so many passive aggressive comments were already being made by the senior but nothing was told to my face, unlike this day. hence i brushed it off.
it was high time i take this issue to my manager, so i go ahead and schedule a call with him and told him about how i felt targeted and cornered. how insulting it felt when a senior of mine got my juniors to mock my work and how i feel stressed which is not letting me work to my fullest potential. the manager tells me that the office is a friendly place where everyone is a friend to another and the culture is not really professional. i tell him that, this was done in a demeaning way and that there is nothing friendly about it. it really hurt me. the manager tells me that he'll look into the issue and talk to the team about it. he calls them and asks them about it.
the next day, these dudes start to be really nice to me. act like nothing has ever happened. try to mingle with me and i reciprocate the energy back.
a day before i let the manager know about what has happened, i confront the senior saying how it was wrong on his behalf and how he should be professional about it.
later, towards the end of the say i ask him what his problem with me is, he says i take things personally. i ask him to give me an example of the time i have been taking things personally, he brushes it off by leaving the place to get coffe and i repeat the question once he is back. he chuckles and points to a code review session where i was rude to him because of the comments he left on the pr. i asked him that instead of being petty why couldn't he talk to me about it to which he has nothing to say. and i also subtly tell him that he was discussing my work and answering my doubts to a know it all colleague instead of me, who should be working on it and when i try to discuss i get a blank stare and no answer. he says that he does not remember.
apparently when the manager asked him about it, he said that i was losing my temper and arguing with him when it was clearly a discussion and more of a confrontation. my manager kinda got sold to it because he has been with the company for quite a while
i exchange pleasantries with everyone including the senior and the two juniors that mocked me, who are being extremely nice to me since after the call and casually give into the conversation because everyone gossip a lot and don't want to be out of place and also make sure that there is no friction between me and team as the senior explicitly told me that one of the juniors who mocked me, does not find it easy to work with me and i have to talk and interact with him but this junior dude never really hesitated talking to me, or discussing work with me. on the other hand, i am a person who doesn't really gossip a lot so there's that.
so manager has been observing that i have been acting like normal with the team and passed a sly remark about how people act all chill and suddenly they have their moment where they lose it, which felt like a jab towards me, to which the senior jumps on the bandwagon and proceeds to add how easily people get triggered. i did not react. i act like its not my business like the rest of the team.
how do i let my manager know that i am being sportive and letting it go as everyone is being respectful and i am not the sort of a person to hold on to grudges and how the situation is so sensitive that the senior is projecting that junior in the team is not inclined to work with me while he im and I are alright so i am being open to communication and not playing politics?
ObeseBumblebee@reddit
Not going to lie... it kinda sounds like you take things too personally to me.
If my manager or senior said "lol looks like the juniors did most of the work on this one." I'd say "lol yeah they did great work! Big kudos to them. It's nice having some quality juniors."
Instead, you took it as an insult, involved your manager and turned the entire team against you.
I'm not trying to be mean here. I just think there is a lesson on office politics to be learned here.
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
i am not sure if i put it out right as i was overwhelmed typing it out. it wasn't as straight forward to the point where he said juniors did good work. he said he 'pitied' me because i have the juniors commenting on my code. i don't mind anyone commenting on my code, i am confident in my abilities and always up constructive criticism
ObeseBumblebee@reddit
That's a bit of a crazy thing for a senior to say. Juniors are inexperienced but they're not dumb and often have lots of valuable input in reviews.
raichulolz@reddit
Yeh I dont really understand this emphasis on someone being offended that a junior commented on someone's PR... They are not stupid people, they have been hired and simply lack an 'x' amount of experience, they have degrees in the field and are professionals.
wheregoesriverflow@reddit
Some people you dont work well with, thats life..
birdparty44@reddit
Also NGL, the way you tell the story makes me think there is truth in the feedback you’re receiving. Overly emotional, social anxiety, taking things personally, hard to work with, etc.
Look at it a different way; there are plenty of devs who go to work, do their work, interact with their colleagues about the work, and then go home. Why are they able to do this? What is it about their approach to people and work that makes that possible for them?
Anxiety is can be a real problem, professionally. I think it’s worth digging deeper on this topic to fully understand how it affects you, and likely how long you’ve been living with it to the point you don’t even know you suffer from it, it’s been so normal for you for a long time, likely dating back to childhood.
Good luck! You are certainly not alone.
elkazz@reddit
I'm not going to lie, I'm really struggling to even follow what you're talking about.
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
senior says juniors commenting on my pr is 'pitiful'. i talk to senior why he says something so mean like that, he says he has other issues with me so he's being ass and cornering me. i ask why he did not discuss with me straight forward. he has no answer. i take it to manager, manager talks to senior, senior says i am arguing and angry when i was confronting and resolving. i am all good as everyone is good after the manager talks. but manager expects me to be distant and cold to the team, but i am sportive and senior projects someone is not okay working with me when the someone and i are all good and cool with each other. manager thinks i am playing politics but no i have been cornered and gaslit and i am only being open to conversations because of senior's baseless accusations. how do i let manager know this
elkazz@reddit
Why do you think the senior might have issues with you? Do you deliver quality work on time? Do you often disagree with people's opinions? How aware are you of your strengths and weaknesses? Either way, it sounds like that ship has sailed, and you've built up a reputation of being difficult to work with. You should probably move to another company and find a team that you mesh with better.
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
because he thinks i am rude when i am straightforward and don't gossip a lot, keep to myself
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
It’s common for people who are difficult to communicate with to deny they’re doing anything wrong, insisting that they’re just being straightforward or honest.
If you actually want to improve this situation it’s time to stop the defensive reactions and start taking feedback. If someone senior tells you you’re being rude, you very likely need to work on your communication skills and delivery.
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
i am not difficult to communicate, i have always been open and initiate discussions around work, not only with the senior but with whole of the team. the senior discusses things when its needed. going by your point, why is he the only person having a problem with me, but others don't? if only he really had a problem with me not being open to communication, he'd report it to the boss saying i am incapable.
fyi, i have been working since 4.5 years and am not a junior and know what IT is about. you don't seem to get the point and have a hard time going beyond your biases. do not jump to conclusions when you have no additional context.
stop being a dick, it's high time you broaden your perspective and do better
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
This is the stuff I’m talking about. You don’t see it as a problem, but everyone in this thread is picking up on it and trying to help you.
Why is only this person saying anything about it? Because most people simply avoid the subject with people who don’t take feedback well without counter-attacking with personal insults (as you just did). Your other coworkers are probably walking on eggshells to avoid triggering you into the type of behavior you’re displaying here.
I understand this isn’t what you wanted to hear after your rants, but if you want some advice this is what I’d work on.
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
thank you but i am looking for advice that is unbiased. your input clearly didn't help, i am sorry
NON_EXIST_ENT_@reddit
He's 100% right. You need to take a breath and genuinely consider the possibility you are the issue.
Ciff_@reddit
Advice is not biased just because it does not fit your self perception. You called him a dick pretty much out of the blue. Even if you don't think he has a fair picture of you, why would you do that? Instead ask clarifying questions? You are being defensive and thorns out. I don't know why, stress can do that, maybe you need to let this stuff rest for a while and find some peace.
ryado@reddit
Uh, no?
I think you live in your own bubble. You are indeed way too defensive, and have communication problems my friend.
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
what i think is that, unfortunately this senior is someone like that because i am sure who he is as a person as i worked with him and this definitely not the norm for a senior engineer.
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
i do deliver quality work on time. i don't disagree a lot with their opinions. i am aware but i am still working towards knowing myself better as i keep growing as a person
Ciff_@reddit
It is very hard to follow how you communicate in text. This is something you will have to work on because it will lead to missunderstanding.
But I'd say one
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
it was tldr, i am aware he talks to everyone in team
Ciff_@reddit
If that jumble is to;Dr I don't think anyone can understand what would be the whole story
ryado@reddit
F acts
TheInquisitiveLayman@reddit
I’d have let things lie before talking to the manager. You spoke to the senior which was good in my opinion.
But what was the point if you were going to go to your manager anyway?
ryado@reddit
Amen
Dokrzz_@reddit
I hardly ever comment on this subreddit, mostly because I browse without being logged in.
Reading to the replies to your post it feels really unfortunate that you’re having to deal with the same sort of characters at your workplace also in these Reddit comments.
Maybe this post is heavily edited at my time of reading but to me it’s very clear from your post what problems you’re experiencing and it’s not as confusing to read as everybody is complaining about.
Unfortunately, a lot of people when confronted or called out on their behaviour will attempt to paint others as sensitive/“can’t take a joke”/argumentative. This effect is multiplied if are any gender/race/age dynamics thrown into the mix. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
It appears that both your co-workers and your manager have stickied you with this label, I’m not sure how likely it is to change this (unfair) view they have or if that’s even something you would want to.
I don’t have much advice here, you may find that many workplaces are the same. Your workplace shouldn’t be a place where you are bullied, gossiped about or receive endless snark/passive aggressive.
Redditors are not a great crowd to turn to for an empathetic ear, especially on such a subreddit.
Emotionally, I’d say lean and ask for advice from people in your personal life that have experience navigating such situations in the workplace (it’s not about PRs or being in tech). Find mentors, family and friends that can help you navigate these social situations.
If you can afford to, try to search for other places of work. I understand if it’s not feasible. Try and screen for workplaces that have a “bro-y” or non-professional culture.
In regard to your current workplace, don’t feel isolated. If you can find sympathetic and friendly co-workers even if it’s outside your team. I don’t advise complaining about your situation to them but they might be able to help when you’re trying to handle certain situations and might have better relationships with people on your team so can let you know how to deal with them.
Please don’t let this Reddit thread gaslight you also, many people pride themselves on being un-empathetic and labelling others as more “emotional” than themselves. It’s all nonsense.
Best of luck with what’s going on in your workplace!
appleBonk@reddit
You should look into paranoid personality disorder. I definitely have some symptoms, and reading about it has helped me improve myself and my relationships.
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
tell me about it
creaturefeature16@reddit
Anytime I've collaborated with juniors, they usually end up showing me something I didn't know about. 💀
mirodk45@reddit
Hey there's nothiong more pleasing to me when a Jr suggests something really cool or asks a question that everybody overlooked
creaturefeature16@reddit
I love that they all have different entry points. I was working with one who never touched PHP because they got their intro to coding through JavaScript (as expected) and knew far more about some of the newer JS capabilities and tricks that I honestly had not been keeping up on because I'm still working a lot in other languages. We all have knowledge and experience gaps, and in that sense, we're all sort of equal and just trying to figure things out. I find the major difference between a junior and a senior is time in the industry, which has led to simply seeing a lot of recurring issues and patterns that you learn from and subsequently know how to either fix quickly, or avoid altogether.
rayfrankenstein@reddit
You are taking it too personally. They were being a bit insensitive, but software development can be rough and tumble.
On PR’s, you really want to limit bringing in management to pragmatic situations where people are actively making questionable requests for code changes that put you in danger of not submitting your work on time. If there’s no official code style on the project get someone is holding up your PR because it violates some informal coding standard that nobody’s documented and it’s the last to get your story into the sprint, that’s when you bring managers into it.
maikindofthai@reddit
Dude this post is clearly evidence that you’re leading with your emotions more than your brain. You need to take a second to breathe and think.
If you’re doing this in a Reddit post, where you have time to think and review before posting, you’re almost certainly doing this in more real time interactions.
You’ve left out all of the key details (like what exactly was said and how it was delivered) and are just telling a one-sided story otherwise, so it’s hard to say anything about the situation beyond that. But this absolutely reeks of overreaction.
Teammates aren’t there to be your friend, and even the most politely delivered constructive criticism can be painful - they’re your mistakes, after all. You have to learn to detach yourself from your work and not let critical comments get to you, even if they’re more blunt than we’d ideally like.
lowwalker@reddit
Welcome to working with people.
Constant-Listen834@reddit
Stop taking things so personally and grow up dude, you are definitely in the wrong here
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
care to explain where i am wrong?
mirodk45@reddit
Taking menial things personally like everyone at your workplace told you already
entoasalu@reddit (OP)
i added an edit to the post, he told me that he 'pities' me for getting comments on the pr by juniors
AffectionateCard3530@reddit
He may be intentionally slighting you, he may not be. It’s possible. But I don’t think it’s particularly relevant.
What is obvious is that you are a very emotional person, and what you need to work on here (imo) is understanding your emotions. You won’t be able to connect and communicate with these coworkers if your emotions lead you to misinterpret / overreact to their comments.
Again, maybe they are bullies/jerks/condescending/whatever. But until you learn to control your emotions and see more clearly, you’re in no position to understand them.
mirodk45@reddit
Yeah, I saw that. I still think you're thinking too much about some comment and are holding it personally where it shouldn't.
I can't possibly know the whole story, so maybe this senior really is harassing you and I'm being unfair to you, but it seems to me like you just made the situation much worse by involving your manager
wise_beyond_my_beers@reddit
YTA
Accomplished_Bag4838@reddit
Nothing says ‘sportive’ and letting something go than a nine paragraph rant.
Just do what you say you’re trying to do
rtc11@reddit
Code reviews always looks passive aggressive, rarely personal. The red pen is very valuable in many ways, you get feedback and its proof that they have spent time looking at what you have done. Approver is not always right, but that is not always the important part. More often than not its about code smells or adjusting for internal conventions. Everyone make silly mistakes even the most senior ones. Its nice to have some more eyeballs looking at stuff. You can also talk to your team if there is fundamental/architectual disagreements. I hate long baco and forth code review comments
pulse77@reddit
Professional way: you should talk with senior engineer one-on-one first and only if it is not better escalate this issue to the manager.
ajones80@reddit
This is why conventional comments are important for PR reviews. I highly suggest using them if you’re not already.
Ciff_@reddit
Usually conflicts are a combination of misunderstandings, pride and prejudice. Who was wrong or right is impossible to tell - maybe abit of everything.
It is unclear to what extent you actually handled this with the person in question. It sounds like you let it brew, talked to the guy one time and didn't like the outcome and then went directly to management. That is certainly not ideal. Instead say directly how you experience something, don't let it boil over. Then it can seem indeed very out of the blue. Ask follow up questions to avoid misunderstandings - something may not be an insult other things may be. You likely need to work on conflict management here.
Wrt manager perception that's pretty much a dud. The senior and the rest of the tram will have more influence since they have built up trust with the manager. Focus instead on making a damn good job. Be humble, professional, and ask for feedback.
Your coworker may be a dick - if that is the case sooner or later the rest of the team will rally behind you. But right now you are new from my understanding with this team. You have not earned any social capitol with neither your boss or your teammates.
lurksponge0@reddit
This whole post it seem like you do take things personally and hold grudges, even though you say you do not. There is some power in being above it all and letting things roll off your back. If you do that though, you don't need to be righteous about it i.e. you don't need to tell others that you are being above it. Eventually they will see and probably just stop. Sometimes you can make yourself an easy target for bullies or for people to group up on you. It's not necessarily fair, but that is why you can't give power to people like that. Let your work speak for itself. And if someone gives you a valid criticism or makes an good suggestion in your code reviews, take it in stride and try to put in practice. But if the comments are not really constructive, or you perceive they contain some sort of sleight against you, then just ignore them. Again to reiterate, don't give any power to people you feel are putting you down.
_littlerocketman@reddit
By doing exactly that?
Also, why did you talk to your manager after talking to the colleague? You felt like you needed to report him to the head master or something?
AntiqueConflict5295@reddit
Get out of that place. Fallback to giving a F about everything...godspeed.
kenflingnor@reddit
do you work with high schoolers or something?