Steam Beta finally enables Proton on Linux fully, making Linux gaming simpler
Posted by Liam-DGOL@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 164 comments
Posted by Liam-DGOL@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 164 comments
pr0fic1ency@reddit
Long Live Proton, and Rest in Pieces Linux Natives.
Korysovec@reddit
Funnily enough, for example Euro Truck Sim 2, while it has native Linux port since its inception, the Windows version runs much better on Linux.
crystalchuck@reddit
Same for Mount & Blade: Warband. Just shows you what a huge PITA packaging for Linux can be.
zocker_160@reddit
The issue in this case is not packaging, because Valve and the Steam Linux runtime does that for you.
The issue is GPU drivers, there is an interview with Feral Interactive where they talk about this very issue.
Proton works so well, because they are fixing issues on a game by game basis with workarounds and driver fixes.
nightblackdragon@reddit
GPU drivers could be the issue years ago but now they are in pretty good shape. Beside Windows games running with Proton are using exactly same drivers and many of them are working better than Linux native ports.
The issue is Linux market share, no one is going to spend a lot of time on optimizing Linux port.
zocker_160@reddit
Well this might be true, but I constantly hear complaints about issues with GPU drivers both on the AMD and especially on the Nvidia side (which like it or not are used by the majority of the player base).
Furthermore as a game developer, which version of Mesa should I target? The range of Mesa versions used by all those distros is huge.
While this is completely true, the amount of effort required is insane. You cannot reasonably expect a game developer to do that for every game and keep(!) doing that throughout the existence of a game. Native ports are worse in performance, because they simply are not getting updated anymore unlike Proton.
This is also true, since even Feral Interactive tells users now to use Proton instead.
nightblackdragon@reddit
People are also complaining about drivers on Windows but you are probably not going to claim that Windows has bad drviers.
Why should you target some Mesa version? You are writing game using Vulkan or OpenGL which Mesa provides. How Mesa implements them is not supposed to be your concern.
zocker_160@reddit
Oh I absolutely do. The AMD drivers on Windows are horrible. They have a very bad reputation on Windows because of this.
This is why Linux has better performance on many AMD based Handhelds. It is not (only) because of Windows bloat, but also because the AMD GPU drivers on Windows simply suck.
I as a game developer develop and test my game on a specific Mesa version (usually the latest stable) only to find out that the same game has glitches and bugs on older Mesa versions.
Furthermore I found out that most Linux users actually run on an older Mesa version and only a very small minority has the latest installed, so I started targeting the specific Mesa version shipping with Ubuntu LTS.
Extremely naive take assuming that the same OpenGL shaders produce the same result on every hardware and every version of Mesa.
Reality however is that results are often shockingly different to the point of breaking the game completely.
You are right, it shouldn't be my concern, but it is, because gamers are my customers and blaming Mesa for a broken game is not going to refund my lost sales.
The game has to work the moment it is bought, not a week or a month later when Mesa has decided to fix it and then 6 month later when Ubuntu decides to actually package that version of Mesa.
nightblackdragon@reddit
You will have exactly same issue on Windows - you might test your app on newest stable driver but somebody with outdated driver will report that your app doesn't work. So are you going to test various drivers versions just to make sure that it will work on all of them or you will simply ask this person to update his drivers?
There is good reason why it is generally recommended to have up to date drivers if you want to do gaming.
If it doesn't it is a bug in driver because how OpenGL shaders are behaving is documented in specification. Sure in reality it's not always the case but again it's not Mesa specific issue.
Neither gamers on Windows blaming AMD or NVIDIA drivers is going to refund your lost sales.
zocker_160@reddit
No I don't, because on Windows I can simply tell users to install the latest driver and 99% of my users do it, because on Windows it is just a dead simple single mouse click in the GPU driver settings.
On Linux this is very much not the case, only very very few users on LTS distros (like Ubuntu) do actually have a newer Mesa installed as compared to the default ones offered in the Ubuntu repos.
No I don't and yes I do, because on Windows all users are on the same driver version with just a single click.
On Linux it is a horrible mess, trying to get all users onto the same Mesa version is basically impossible, especially since even the exact same versions are not compiled the same across distros.
Agreed, except that the numbers show that while Windows users usually are spread across 2 or 3 driver versions (and are willing to update if requested), on Linux it is more like 20 or more, more often than not 4+ years old.
Yes 100% it is a bug. But it does not matter who is to blame, because gamers want to play the moment they buy the game. They do not care who to blame, if it does not work.
True, but unlike on Linux, Windows is more predictable, so the number of users with issues is usually a LOT lower compared to the Linux numbers, because I as a developer can prepare and test for it.
I cannot test 20 distros across 20 Mesa versions, it is impossible.
On Windows I only test exactly 1 Nvidia and 1 AMD driver version.
crystalchuck@reddit
It is at least a part of the problem, since the Linux M&B launcher has a dependency on qt4, which is ancient by now. And while the Steam Linux runtime is neat, what will you do when you need a package that isn't part of it?
zocker_160@reddit
You compile / link it against the Steam Linux runtime and bundle it with the game.
Basically what all games also do on Windows as well, so this is nothing special.
GrimTermite@reddit
If a dependency is not in the Steam Linux runtime then you must bundle it with the game. It's not complicated.
sicklyboy@reddit
Payday 2, the Linux native build runs worse than the windows build via Proton and is also way out of date comparatively lol
11177645@reddit
Borderlands 2 is also out of date compared to the Windows version, my friend on Windows had to switch to an earlier build on Windows just so we could play with each other.
pr0fic1ency@reddit
Many such cases.
SoloWing1@reddit
Some would say that being more common than not is the reason for this change.
froli@reddit
The change doesn't impact those games. Proton is now enabled by default for Windows games, but Linux native will still be prioritized when it exists.
pr0fic1ency@reddit
Of course, what I am saying is that: with Steam Deck/Proton success, it will encourage developer to simply not create a native games, why bother? Proton exists and it works.
PassionGlobal@reddit
Yes. Some native ports also exhibit graphical issues that the Windows version, either via Proton or Windows, does not.
arcum42@reddit
And I've run into at least two games where the "native port" on Linux was actually an empty folder with no executables...
bedrooms-ds@reddit
Native build vs optimized for Windows. Yup, very possible.
MrMelon54@reddit
I found that at first, then the bugs I had on the native version were fixed and the proton version gained some rendering bugs.
kefikjef@reddit
Damn. I was wondering if that was the case.
shirk-work@reddit
I think soon AI will be good enough to effortlessly port essentially any software to any system. Only limitation would be compute, like if some service or behavior requires more compute than a personal machine.
gatornatortater@reddit
AI isn't as good at coding as you think it is.
shirk-work@reddit
Currently you are right, but if we extrapolate it's development a few years it seems it will be.
gatornatortater@reddit
Maybe, or maybe not. Its not a technology that is really designed to be objective and logical like normal programs. They need to develop some way for it to self critique that isn't dependent on the LLM method. My understanding is that the LLM method is inherently prone to error in a similar way that our brains our when just thinking freely in our own heads. It is only by using tools like math and the scientific method that our opinions and thoughts solidify into something more concrete and tested.
But I don't think it works in a similar way as our brains do, it just emulates or copies the results of that that have been fed into it.
And that certainly has some great uses, but all those things have room for error. A program will not work if the syntax is incorrect in most any small way.
freedomlinux@reddit
Obligatory https://xkcd.com/605/
BigYoSpeck@reddit
Do you mean AI can take the Windows codebase and spit out a Linux compatible version of the code?
Because while yes in theory it could and it may even save a small amount of dev time porting the code, that isn't going to suddenly make game developers invested in doing so. Making the code itself cross platform isn't the hard part when it's ultimately written in a programming language you can compile and there are already cross platform graphics libraries. They already port a large percentage of games to PlayStation, Xbox, Switch, Android, iOS and Windows
You still then need to review the code, do QA on it, and more importantly support the platform. None of which they will be interested in investing resources in for a potential 2% market share when a compatibility layer like Proton is good enough
shirk-work@reddit
My claim is that within reason AI will be able to perform any task a human mind can perform. That includes such things as porting a game. That said direct simulation, like you give AI inputs and it generates consistent frames, and audio of game play may become more common.
gatornatortater@reddit
It can't.
shirk-work@reddit
Currently, no it's not yet there. If we extrapolate it's development really even a few years I don't see the concern. The last major hurdle is consistency over a long period of time. So far every other hurdle has fallen.
After that it's just increasing efficiency and exploring new designs and spaces.
BigYoSpeck@reddit
I mean, if you extrapolate the progress of the Wright brothers first fight to the moon landing we should be flying to the stars by now
shirk-work@reddit
We're talking five years vs 50 years. I'm also taking into consideration the approach and current limitations. Horizon thinking is the pain point currently. Coherence drops off after a while. After that it's clearly efficiency. AI approaching a single human brain takes kWh and a human brain is like one cheeseburger per day.
BigYoSpeck@reddit
The first perceptron was nearly 70 years ago. We haven't only had AI breakthroughs in the last 5 years
But we have had a sudden surge of progress with transformer models, much like the progress with rocketry that lead to the moon landing
Exponential or even linear progress doesn't go on forever
shirk-work@reddit
Omg please be reasonable. I'm obviously talking about the extremely noticeable exponential on the S-curve starting around 2017. You don't need to be pedantic, you know what I'm saying.
BigYoSpeck@reddit
But like I said, the lack of Linux support isn't due to porting software being difficult, they already port to the BSD based kernel and proprietary graphics API's of the PlayStation and Switch, an extra build target for the Linux kernel and Vulkan or OpenGL graphics library would be fairly trivial
It's the lack of willingness for the companies producing games to divert resources for QA and support to a niche market that isn't even standardised
Even assuming we reach the point of AI agents that can fully be relied upon to match human competency, and assuming that the economic devastation caused by abundant low cost labour somehow leaves people with the means to spend money on gaming, unless a standardised, feasibly supportable distribution/distributions of Linux gain a large enough market share there won't be a strong enough business case to use resources, even AI to do so
SlowTao@reddit
Win32 API's are the single best development environment for games on Linux thanks to Proton.
Liam-DGOL@reddit (OP)
Nothing changes for Native.
Alaknar@reddit
Even less incentive to write native games for Linux.
papasiorc@reddit
There never was any real incentive to make games native for Linux.
Proton making gaming on Linux viable might actually help increase its market share, and the bigger its market share the more reason developers have to make native games.
pr0fic1ency@reddit
I think the likelihood would be reduced for natives even more.
Hytht@reddit
There are actually less native titles now since steam deck was released
wolfannoy@reddit
I guess it's kind of pick your poison in this case valve wanted Linux gaming but game developers just didn't want to work native Linux ports so valve had no other option but to create something like proton.
pr0fic1ency@reddit
Complete Valve Victory.
crshbndct@reddit
O don’t know what Steam Deck Specs are, but most new games play pretty well on low-mid systems. My daughter has my old 4060 in her system and it plays most things really well at 1080 still
Dugen@reddit
Just stop.
"Well My son has my old 5080" 💪
4060 is not old or low to medium.
crshbndct@reddit
A 4060 is low-mid. It’s a terribly priced low-mid, but still low-mid.
There are like 9 performance tiers above it, and only 3 at most below it.
KnowZeroX@reddit
It is arguing over rounding errors. Until Linux gets a sizable marketshare vendors aren't going to seriously consider linux.
The issue is more than just about making your code run on it, many engines let you export to linux by clicking 1 button. But developers don't do it because they don't want to hire extra staff to support linux. You hear it often times how a developer released linux native and regretted it because the amount of service calls they got increased with little users.
This is why the only way to really get linux native games is to increase linux marketshare. With enough marketshare, you will see more vendors releasing linux native games. Until we break at least 20%, worrying about Proton decreasing native games is a pointless rounding error.
albertowtf@reddit
I kinda consider proton native in a way. Its a native reimplementation of the libraries
Its not an emulator, or virtual machine. In that sense, it is kinda more native than java
Dramatic_Mastodon_93@reddit
translation layer
Candid_Report955@reddit
There's less incentive to make Xbox titles for a steadily declining console than to make a Linux title that can run on any PC.
StepDownTA@reddit
Is this current info? If you're talking about TPM requirements, I looked into this about six months ago before a new build. From what I understand, two things make this a nonissue. First, while officially 'required' one can still run W11 without TPM, and will continue to be able to. Second, any W10 hardware that is still running today that is incapable of TPM is going to be rare, since in the already rare case a CPU doesn't support it, there will be a TPM header on the motherboard, and the modules are under $50 (if you can find the right one, which might be the most difficult part since pinouts aren't standardized.)
Candid_Report955@reddit
Over the winter, a Microsoft manager wrote a blog post explaining TPM 2.0 was going to be a hard requirement for 24H2 and later version. I recently tried to bypass it to install Windows 11 24H2 on an unsupported system using the various registry edits on the web that were successful in the past and none worked. You can install a fresh copy of Windows 11 using the Rufus installer, but that means you have to wipe your system rather than upgrade.
Microsoft and its defenders often have a US-centric view of the user base that discounts how many people around the world use old systems and aren't able to go out and buy a new one due to lack of discretionary income.
The serious gamers are already very familiar with the Steam beta being able to play many Windows games and they are actively using it. Steam recently activated proton by default in the Linux Steam client. They will have it in the official Steam client before October, so that all someone using Linux will have to do is install Steam to run most Windows games
gatornatortater@reddit
It already has.
Trk-5000@reddit
Temporarily.
If Proton helps Linux gain enough market share in gaming, we might see a comeback to native builds in the future, as it would then be worth the investment. Which also means the implementation would be of a better quality.
Bad native builds < Good native builds < Proton builds < Excellent native builds
WHYAREWEALLCAPS@reddit
Nah, you're forgetting the issue of supporting 2 separate native versions. If they stick with making sure it runs well under Proton, they do not need to get in the hassle that is porting to Linux native. They get 2 platforms for the price of one with Proton.
Trk-5000@reddit
That’s the entire point. I would rather they focus fully on the Proton version, rather than giving us a half-assed native build.
The comeback to native would only happen if the incentive is big enough, which means it’s the same incentive to ship an excellent native build.
When would the incentive be big enough? When Linux has enough market share, and when native builds offer a performance or capability advantage over Proton builds.
We are moving in a good direction.
FattyDrake@reddit
The sad truth is not when Linux has enough marketshare, but when Linux has enough marketshare and is made up of primarily one distribution developers can target. I.e. of all Linux users 90% are using a single distro/desktop environment.
That's why writing games for Windows and having them run under Proton is a better option, especially from a support standpoint . You're only targeting one platform. Linux is a mess of fragmented platforms.
Basically, very improbable.
Synthetic451@reddit
That's why games just target the Steam Linux runtime. It's not as big of an issue as you seem to think it is.
FattyDrake@reddit
It's not as big an issue but that doesn't mean it's not one. Tim Sweeney (Epic Games CEO) recently cited fragmentation as one reason not to support Linux especially in regards to anticheat.
Synthetic451@reddit
Tim Sweeney is genuinely not a reliable for Linux info. He has been flat out wrong about Linux numerous times.
FattyDrake@reddit
Fair, and he also has his own agenda for wanting to do things. He is however in control of one of the most popular games ever made which itself is a make-or-break whether or not some people decide to use a system/device.
Like Linus Torvalds said a decade ago, if Valve releases Steam on Linux every distro is going to make sure Steam works. And it's true, Ubuntu backtracked on removing 32-bit library support because of it. I'm sure that's a position Sweeney is a little envious of.
Still, a broken clock is right twice a day and all that.
I have personally ran into issues with a few games (Unreal Engine 5 ones ironically) that have been fixed with updated Linux Nvidia drivers that take months to come out officially for other distros.
Synthetic451@reddit
The Nvidia driver situation is unfortunate. Granted the situation has improved immensely over the years, but yeah some distros still ship outdated drivers for no reason. I don't think that's a fragmentation issue though and more of a packaging issue. It's still the same binary driver, but some distros just choose to not include it in their regular update pipelines. It's no different than someone relying on Windows Update for their GPU drivers and then getting stuck on an old version. It's a major reason a lot of people don't recommend Ubuntu for gaming. Their driver situation is bonkers.
It's very clear that Tim Sweeney hasn't actually done the technical evaluation for making a port to Linux and is just talking out his ass. Small indie studios have developed native ports on top of the Steam Linux runtime and gotten it to work across all major distros. It's possible. He's just making excuses because he doesn't want to flat out say that that effort isn't going to make him tons of Fortnite money.
gatornatortater@reddit
Distros aren't typically that different. For most things it is pretty easy to get applications made for a specific distro to run on other distros. DaVinci for example, which only provides an rpm.
I think this is mostly just an excuse people use for not even trying.
You can support 1 distro and send everyone else to a public forum for help.
FattyDrake@reddit
They are very much so when it comes to things like GPU drivers, especially game-specific fixes that vendors include. Something like Arch is going to have the latest Nvidia driver, whereas Ubuntu will be a few versions behind, and LTS releases or Debian can be years behind.
If a particular game doesn't work with Nvidia driver 535.* series but has fixes in the 575.* series, no amount of changes are gonna work short of manually installing the newest driver from Nvidia's site, which is a whole can of worms unto itself for an inexperienced user.
gatornatortater@reddit
You can install the latest drivers on other distros like ubuntu or whatever. That is a driver issue that is more easily resolved on something like arch, rather than a distro issue in my view.
FattyDrake@reddit
I mean, Flatpaks and AppImages were developed specifically to fix the problem of different distros having different library versions and making it near-impossible to distribute non-static binaries.
In this very thread the Steam Linux Runtime was discussed which is an attempt to resolve that too.
So I have no idea where you're getting the idea they're not different.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
How many times are you going to repeat this "fragmentation" lie?
FattyDrake@reddit
When it stops being an issue for developers.
Just look at the latest KiCad Wayland topic to see how it's an issue currently.
ArdiMaster@reddit
Steam games essentially don’t have to worry about distributions. Much like with flatpak, games are compiled for the Steam Linux Runtime, not any particular distribution.
FattyDrake@reddit
True, but that's what Proton uses IIRC. Which means there's still no advantage to making a native Linux port, just more work. And you still have to contend with GPU driver disparities, especially Nvidia. (It's always Nvidia. :P )
altermeetax@reddit
No, the Steam Linux runtime is used by native games too.
FattyDrake@reddit
Yes, I know. I guess I didn't articulate it clearly enough. By using the SLR, there's no inherent advantage over using Proton. Just more dev and support costs. Even games that use it end up can fall behind the Windows (Proton) counterpart with things like bugfixes.
That last point is not specifically a Linux architecture issue, it's just companies don't want to spend money and time on something if the original method not only works, but works well.
Dramatic_Mastodon_93@reddit
Until Linux has a bigger market share than Windows, which I mean we’ll see if that’ll happen, but I certainly hope so.
DesiOtaku@reddit
At this point, having a native version doesn't add as much as it used to. It's more important these days to have a good Vulkan implementation and not use an anti-cheat that locks out Linux. If it has those two things, it's about 99% as good as a "native" binary.
gatornatortater@reddit
Perhaps. But if it continually increases the market, then that will certainly change at some point.
Alaknar@reddit
Well, not quite. Unless Linux completely overtakes Windows (which won't happen), companies will still have an easier time hiring Windows developers. And then they'll just do one application and have it "compatible" with two OSes, whereas if they wrote it for Linux, it wouldn't ever run on Windows.
Hot-Impact-5860@reddit
But it's good, why write for a platform, when you can like.. not do it?
purplemagecat@reddit
Nope they hardly worked before and they hardly work now🤣
Cats7204@reddit
A ton of games have such shitty linux support that the windows version through proton works better than native lmao
GlitteringClue3639@reddit
Every single game in my library that has a native Linux version performs worse than the Proton version.
zocker_160@reddit
WinAPI via WINE still by far the most stable and sane API on Linux......
altermeetax@reddit
The most stable and sane API is and will always be the Linux kernel syscall API. It's the GNU people that are messing everything up.
DesiOtaku@reddit
At least for Steam, they provide a stable Linux runtime to target. That way, you don't have to worry about which packages / libraries (or versions of libraries) to target your binary with.
zocker_160@reddit
This only partially solves the problem though, because the Steam Linux runtime does also load many important libraries from the host (mainly the GPU drivers) and those are what are causing many of the issues.
There is an interview online from Feral Interactive about porting games to Linux where they explain this very issue.
Dramatic_Mastodon_93@reddit
In the long run it’ll mean more Linux native games.
pr0fic1ency@reddit
I am honestly skeptical and in doubt, but will welcome to be proven wrong. Maybe in the next 50 years?
WaitForItTheMongols@reddit
Companies that care about making good native games can continue to do so. Companies that don't care, at least we have Proton.
Case in point: Factorio is actually better on Linux than Windows. On Windows, the game pauses to auto-save every few minutes. On Linux, auto-saving works by forking the process. One continues to run the game for you, the other does the auto-saving in the background. Windows doesn't support that kind of behavior. So Linux native is better than Windows.
Other games will have similar benefits, if developers care to dive deep into them.
pr0fic1ency@reddit
For every single game that works Natively in Linux there are at least 2 games that works better using Proton.
For me: Pillars of Eternity 1/2; on top of that cloud saving synced properly.
My point is that Steam Deck/Proton success will only encourage Developers (especially Indies) to create Windows game that will work with Proton; and for every Factorio there are 3 indie games that works only via Proton (Space Wreck, SWORDHAVEN, Colony Ship etc.)
Khanhrhh@reddit
Top comment has never read the article, I swear
fvck_u_spez@reddit
Unfortunately, it probably should. Many native games run worse than running the Windows version through Proton
hfsh@reddit
you missed the point.
Winsaucerer@reddit
I have no problem with this. If the games work well, and makes gaming on Linux better, it's all good.
farky84@reddit
Watching the comments Here confirmed me that linux gaming is in a similar state to where it was 15yrs ago when I fooled around with it for a few ywars before switching back to windows.
Substantial_Eye3132@reddit
Congrats on being ignorant and proud of it.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
It's genuinely depressing that clicking a checkbox is considered to be "technically adept". This isn't about being good with PCs anymore, it's about being able to follow simple instructions.
Instead of constantly repeating "people are stupid", which gives people a great excuse to be stupid, everyone in every single community needs to start holding everyone else to a higher standard. If we can't do something this simple, then we will lose everything, and we've already lost so much already.
JupiterInHumanForm@reddit
I think it's just a hyperbolic statement as a title to get you to click on the article. Nothing more
smile_e_face@reddit
I admire the idealism, and I used to think this way, too. But if many years in various levels of technical support - internal and external, direct and indirect - have taught me anything, it's that, by and large, the user is, in fact, quite stupid.
RepentantSororitas@reddit
It's important to keep in mind EVERYONE is stupid about something
I think people need to be a little more humble and caring
smile_e_face@reddit
Agreed. I am incredibly ignorant (stupid) about many, many topics. But if you don't assume that the average person in 2025 still sees their computer as essentially a magic work / social media / gaming box, then you're just not seeing things properly.
RepentantSororitas@reddit
I dont think this thread proton push is a example of that
PacketAuditor@reddit
Treating the user like they're stupid is how you get more users. See Microsoft and Apple.
Hint: It's because the user is stupid.....
RepentantSororitas@reddit
I don't even think this is a user is stupid thing.
Its just a thing that only happens on the Linux version of steam.
People just wouldn't know it's a thing to check.
RepentantSororitas@reddit
Eh the issue is that it's only on Linux that you need this checkbox.
So people wouldn't even know there was a checkbox to check.
I don't think this is the downfall of humanity. It's making a weird exception a default.
MemeTroubadour@reddit
Saying it's just clicking a checkbox is in bad faith. Even now, you still have to fuck around with different Proton versions to get most games working ; GE builds are not available on Steam's client either, and in my experience, they've been a necessity.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
No, it isn't. Assigning "bad faith" to calling a spade a spade is actual bad faith, though.
You don't actually have to swap Proton versions or special builds nearly as much as you claim. That's also a completely separate topic anyway, which means more actual bad faith.
tonymurray@reddit
No, more like there is no reason to have the checkbox anymore...
datprofit@reddit
I can sympathise with the frustration towards people being unable to do simple things with technology, but I think it's also important to recognise the complexity behind the simple task. Yes, it's as simple as enabling a single option, but first a person has to understand that linux and windows don't operate the same way behind the scenes. They have to know that when a game doesn't launch it's because something has gone wrong that can be fixed with a search, they have to know what search terms to enter (something like "games wont launch on my pc" isn't going to get someone tech-illiterate anywhere useful here)", and then they have to navigate to a menu in Steam that many people probably have never seen and enable this specific setting and not the others.
I do agree that that's not too difficult to do and learning these sorts of skills should be more encouraged, but I think it's not as accurate to present it as "clicking a checkbox", and doesn't properly address the underlying issues one may have in getting to the point where they know to click that checkbox specifically. If we must hold the community to a higher standard, that standard must also be applied to our own ability to measure those standards.
Liam-DGOL@reddit (OP)
The problem is, this is not something that users are walked through. They're just expected to know the checkbox exists.
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
Oh great. More people asking us to support their gaming habit. I hate Proton sooo much for that.
InverseInductor@reddit
Relevant xkcd
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
It's not that, though. It's the misguided folks coming into Linux subs and forums and asking us for help for their game. Sorry, but the game was not written for Linux if it is a Windows game. Go to the makers of Proton and Steam for support. Leave Linux people alone. It's not a Linux problem. You want Linux support for games? Make sure they're native Linux ports or gtfo. Proton and Steam (the company) are not Linux! SteamOS issue? Yeah that is Linux... but you mention one Windows game, gtfo. It was not made for Linux, Proton itself is not Linux, any and all issues such gamers have are not Linux problems. This is why I hate them so. They could play their lives away on Windows for their Windows games and I wouldn't care.
InverseInductor@reddit
I see where you're coming from. It's the 'September that never ended' of Linux. I'm not sure if it's avoidable with more people switching to Linux now that their games catalogue can run on Linux.
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
It can only be avoided if such people are consistently met with vitriol. :)
Scheeseman99@reddit
They won't, you're just more likely to get pushed out of communities for being a dick.
formegadriverscustom@reddit
Making Windows gaming on Linux simpler, you mean. That's what this is. Native Linux gaming is dead, and Valve killed it.
But I don't care anymore. I guess I finally reached the "acceptance" phase of the five stages of grief...
OffsetXV@reddit
As opposed to before Proton, where you had all 7 of the native games, and then a bunch of games that were buggy shitshows through WINE.
Linux gaming was never alive, and it was never going to be alive because Linux gaming market share was never going to grow if people couldn't play their games on Linux in the first place.
Native games will be a thing when there's enough of a Linux userbase for them to be a thing.
Not to mention, does it even matter that you're playing a Window game on Linux? It's not like the game having a native version suddenly makes it FOSS or makes it more gooder or something.
It doesn't make extra programs like mod managers, overlays, etc. that don't have Linux versions suddenly work better, it makes no real difference in 99.9% of cases, and if anything it's far preferable to have a Windows version that runs well on Linux with no effort than a barely-maintained, buggy, poor performing Linux version that will probably be dropped by the devs at some point when they realize even Linux users just use the Windows veresion.
altermeetax@reddit
The issue is that if native Linux gaming doesn't take off we're giving all power to Microsoft. They might make something like DX13 one day, the Wine/Proton devs may have a hard time implementing it, and there you have it, Linux gaming dead for one year or so.
Or maybe something like Universal Windows Platform.
Scheeseman99@reddit
Developers have to actively choose whatever new thing Microsoft makes, like UWP, which had virtually no uptake outside of Microsoft's store. Hell, even Microsoft ended up creating win32 builds of their games for Steam.
A new D3D version or whatever won't do much, it takes forever for new graphics APIs to become significantly adopted and now there's a billion dollar corp that's backing the development of compatibility layers. There's also the option for developers to target win32, but provide native support for Vulkan too, or exclusively use Vulkan. Weirdly, some of Microsoft's own games, particularly anything based on idtech, do this!
This isn't to say Microsoft don't have a wedge, but it's anti-cheat and TPM-based DRM, though those have little to do with graphics APIs or compile targets and Proton's existence doesn't make them more powerful.
OffsetXV@reddit
And Proton not existing and Linux not having a gaming userbase at all will somehow magically make Microsoft stop doing things to try to cripple their competition?
altermeetax@reddit
No. I'm not against Proton. What I'm saying is that we can't hope to rely on Proton forever.
thewayoftoday@reddit
Downvite button isn't for disagreeing you.... Muffins
betam4x@reddit
There are more native titles out there than you realize. The Steam Deck has actually helped with this.
moljac024@reddit
Valve didn't kill it, it was broken by design. Valve actually saved gaming on linux and made it actually work
Clairvoidance@reddit
instead of having to enable proton manually so that you can play Windows dedicated titles, it's now a box ticked by default
"fully" made me think it was saying something very different
AnxiousAttitude9328@reddit
I mean. You could have done this previously... you just go into your settings and under compatibility you can select a layer to apply to all your games by default...
Crashman09@reddit
Like system wide? Because that's exactly what I thought.
I thought it meant that I can run a game from, say, GoG and proton would automatically sprinkle its pixie dust and such.
DarthPneumono@reddit
Valve works with CrossOver to develop Proton. It wouldn't make sense for them to cut into their partner's revenue stream by making Proton easily usable outside of Steam.
So they want you to either buy CrossOver, or go to the effort of building their Wine fork yourself (https://github.com/ValveSoftware/wine) which they know most people won't do.
Enthusedchameleon@reddit
Btw, while what you said is 100% understandable, you meant "codeweavers", the makers of "crossover".
DarthPneumono@reddit
This is true
pandaSmore@reddit
I thought it already did that.
Liam-DGOL@reddit (OP)
Not quite. As the screenshots clearly show, the option now doesn't exist at all. It's just On.
Clairvoidance@reddit
ye, it's not quite accurate, but I phrased it that way because this is not setting Proton on every game by default
algaefied_creek@reddit
Linux-native games should stay that way. I don't want Proton in those cases.
killersteak@reddit
sometimes there'll be tens of gigabytes worth of a game from windows already on an external drive that could just be used instead of redownloading the whole thing. depends on the game.
tonymurray@reddit
You can still control that per game.
AlveolarThrill@reddit
Native Linux ports have always been flaky and are often outdated compared to Windows versions. There's also been quite a few reported instances of the Windows version running through Proton outperforming an official, native port. This really is something that has to be judged on a case-by-case basis.
TalosMessenger01@reddit
For most cases where a Linux version exists, I’ve had to use Proton anyway. Civ 5 is stuck on an older version and crashes randomly. Last Epoch’s map doesn’t work. Some other games just don’t launch at all. I haven’t looked into why or tried to fix it but that’s been my experience.
LordPeasley@reddit
I do. Civ 5's native build doesnt work in multiplayer. Same with Payday 2.
Proton lets me play with my friends
NilsLandt@reddit
Ehhh, I judge those case-by-case. Especially with the Feral Interactive ports, Proton is usually the better choice for me.
conlmaggot@reddit
Ok, so ELI5, does this mean for those of us still holding out from moving to Linux because gaming works better/is easier on windows, there are no more excuses?
MemeTroubadour@reddit
Try it, see if there's roadblocks to your usage, and you'll know. Same as anything.
AmarildoJr@reddit
I honestly dislike this change, a lot. I despise Windows and I feel dirty just by having exe's and dll's in my system. I don't mind having the compatibility turned on by default since Proton isn't downloaded by default, but I'd like to be able to DISABLE this option to only play games that are 100% Linux-native.
6SixTy@reddit
This is a little too dogmatic for me. Linux versions of games are far more likely to have issues than the Windows version + Proton.
Dwedit@reddit
Some games have an outdated Linux version (Binding of Isaac is a big offender here), and Steam will prefer that version over the up-to-date Windows version. Is there a way to globally stop steam from reverting games back to outdated Linux versions?
Western-Alarming@reddit
Now we just need to enable background pre caching prossessing as a default, that will remove a lot of post asking if they can skip it when they open the game.
-eschguy-@reddit
Good
whosdr@reddit
Maybe a bit hyperbolic for a title, but it's good nevertheless.
One fewer little thing to change or turn on makes a difference to UX.
jack_hof@reddit
can proton be used for other general windows desktop applications? that would really be something if they could extend it system wide so you don't need virtual machines or whatever the crossover/parallels equivalent is for linux. if they could make it so you could run any windows application like the adobe suite or MS office, that would go a very long way towards linux adoption.
Recipe-Jaded@reddit
Download portproton from the discover store and you can run whatever you want with proton.
Office and Adobe will never work because wine/steam will be very sued if they do what needs to be done to run them
Obnomus@reddit
Nice and waiting for steam to natively run on wayland.
Korysovec@reddit
It is a good change, but is it at all news worthy?
FryBoyter@reddit
In my opinion, this is much more worth mentioning than these fluff images that are regularly published here and often receive a lot of upvotes. Even though they are not allowed according to the rules.
Liam-DGOL@reddit (OP)
GamingOnLinux is still banned too, had to cross post.
theaveragemillenial@reddit
I don't think the mods here are particularly active anymore, is automod still removing?
Liam-DGOL@reddit (OP)
The domain is blocked, GamingOnLinux can't be posted direct
theaveragemillenial@reddit
Must be automod, that's a rule from back when CAPNAME was lead mod on here.
I tried to get that shit removed among other stuff but ended up leaving the mod team right before he got the boot by a legacy mod who's probably back to being inactive now...
Liam-DGOL@reddit (OP)
Yeah, CAPNAME had some weird hate train for me
Liam-DGOL@reddit (OP)
When you still have major news sites writing about their confusion on why they can’t play games, absolutely yes. Good defaults are essential. Most normies don’t go diving into settings.
Bluebeancollector@reddit
Very fair comment, I just feel as if many expected this to have been default
masutilquelah@reddit
Man if we can get adobe shit running on linux windows is done
GrayPsyche@reddit
What