This is pure 10 year old EV specs.
7.4kw home charging. 11kw is the minimum these days.
100kw when charging away from home. At least 50kw less than any competition.
0-60 in 5.7 seconds. That's no longer impressive, when a MG does it in 3.8. Tesla Model 3 is 4-ish, Polestar 2 is 4.2.
0-60 in 5.7s is only a tad better than a Skoda Enyaq.
350 km range WLTP. That's insanely poor. In the real world you can subtract at least 20%. Range drops even more on highway and in cold weather. Real world range is probably in the 150-250 km range.
Competition is harsh. Almost any other ev is better than this. But maybe they set the price really really low. And the car turns out to be really really fun. Then maybe - just maybe - it will stand a chance against basically any other ev.
You are comparing apples to oranges, the cars you mention dont have a fwd drivetrain. The single motor Polestar 2 with similar power is actually slower than the GtI to 60 so if drawing comparisons at least do it like for like
I'm merely comparing what the competition has to offer, not what drivetrain they use. It's not the 0-60 time that sets this car in a bad position, it's the battery size and charging power.
The GTI is based on an aging 208-e platform (released in 2019 i believe?), and Stellantis need to step up if they wish to keep up with the competition.
I wonder if a single one of the commenters here actually read that this is AN ELECTRIC CAR.
I can't remember the last time that pure excitement turned to pure disappointment so quickly. Like, who drove a small hot hatch and thought "you know what this needs? An electric powertrain".
Who is this car for, seriously. How many people that care about the GTI badge would prefer this to a more traditional approach?
> Like, who drove a small hot hatch and thought "you know what this needs? An electric powertrain".
Plenty of people? It's perfect. Hot hatches generally don't sound as good as 6 and 8 cylinder coupes, so they have the most to gain from electrification.
EU makes it impossible to use a combustion engine in a hot hatch without losing many millions on penalty payments, it's either eletric or no hot hatch at all in EU now
You make it sound like it was a V8 before. People aren't going be sad for the economy 4-pot older ones had. It was always the chassis with GTis.
A light fwd electric drivetrain with mechanical lsd is quite an interesting concept.
Light being the key word here...
...this one has already failed. The normal e-208 is like 1.500 kg.
Also...it doesn't have to have been a V8 for people to get sad.
A tiny bit lighter than a C7 'Vette, which is a pretty good car. Yeah, it "should" be lighter but IMHO enthusiast types worry way too much about weight in cars, rather than how they actually drive.
Dude, a C7 has like 450 hp, and is rear wheel drive. The whole point of hot hatches is for them to be low weight/power, but be fun to drive.
Judgding by your little car collection, I assume you've never even seen a french hot hatch. Not saying that to be reductive, I'm simply pointing out that you're probably used to cars weighing a lot.
My point with the C7 compare was that weight won't magically ruin the car's ability to change directions and pull G's. The C7 is faster in a straight line but that's not important for making the point.
Actually, I want to a Renault showroom in France and saw the spicy version of the Megane in person, though that was a long time ago haha. More importantly I've owned 3 Miatas so I have some familiarity with different weights of car, and there's that Bolt I test drove, as well as the 4,400lb Tesla Y I had for a while.
My conclusion from everything I've owned and driven is that where the weight is and how well the tires and suspension interact with it is what matters, how much is less important. Engineers are pretty good at making suspension that works now and modern cars have quite a bit of power and brake, especially BEVs. In my younger days, I figured anything over 3,000lbs must handle like crap - after experience with a C7 on track for a while that perception was shattered. The Y even drove pretty well - crisp turn in, flat cornering, it was just fine for a street car - heavy or not.
Unless something goes horribly wrong with the design this 3,300lb e208 is probably just fine. To be an EV as well as a cozy modern car, it must gain some weight - but it'll also gain power (278 ought to be decent), extra braking from regen, and if the engineers aren't dumb suspension tuned for the weight.
I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said. However, since you've driven such a wide range of cars, I'm sure you understand how in real life, forgetting about performance specs, a car's *personality* will change based on how much it weighs. And that's the problem I personally have with it, I don't think it will perform better. But it will perform like a different car.
People here only talk about performance, but there is more to it when gaining weight, everything is now more expensive, chews tires quickly, brakes dont last as long, like, the experience of a hot hatch is a cheap economic car to drive, mantain and enjoy.
That is why old hondas are cheap to maintain.
The point is that 1600kg is not a light car. Independently of way of propulsion. Bushings, brakes and tires don't give a fuck.
20-30 years from now we will withness 18 year old EVs still going strong /s
I just brand them boomer comments now. Having driven a stripped out corsa electric which is generally considered shit, it was a load of fun. So nippy off the line and exactly what I'd want in an electric hatch.
> People aren't going be sad for the economy 4-pot older ones had.
...Speak for yourself. [The late '80s model was brilliant.](https://youtu.be/Rkc8s1YI6MU)
Dude who gives a shit about a tarted up economy car engine. Outside of something like the VR6, which is long gone, or the truly goofy stuff like the Abarth, the engine has always been about the least interesting part about hot hatches.
I mean, I'm not going to argue that those are not good things, but aren't the first two problems true for most fwd cars with too much power and no clever tech?
It is, yeah.
If you want a personal anecdote, I've floored it in my mom's car several times, and I get torque steer every time. It has 155 hp. I've never driven it hard around corners to see how it does there, but anyway.
I mean sure but that means nothing. My Camry will also light up the fronts but it’s a 31 year old wagon and economy 14in tires.
My Octavia RS245 hooks and goes, admittedly it does have an LSD but the RS169 TSI I test drove before it launched from a stop fine.
> but aren't the first two problems true for most fwd cars with too much power and no clever tech?
Right. So they'll now perhaps solve that problem using a different drivetrain, making the car... better.
It wouldn't be a problem if they didn't need to add power just to carry all that extra weight.
Also...a solution that solves one problem and creates several new ones isn't a good solution.
They need to add power because modern standards for "fast" have changed. The 205 GTI everyone raves about did 0-60 in around 8 seconds. By modern standards that's pretty slow. The added weight is not for shits and giggles, but it makes the car more refined, easier to live with, more reliable, safer, etc.
The move to EV solves plenty of problems. A zippy little city car is just about a perfect application for an EV drivetrain with its instant throttle response and low-down torque. All while being much less of a nuisance to the outside world.
The added weight is batteries, and that's it. 350 kg heavier than the normal version. That is nearly a quarter of the car's weight. Refinement has nothing to do with it. It's not more reliable, easier, etc...it's just weight you have to carry if you want it to work.
Alright, let's walk this step-by-step.
1. OC complained about the old 208 GTI not having enough grip to put down its power and the engine being unreliable.
2. You responded saying the grip problem is caused by too much power going to the front wheels.
3. The too much power problem exists in the regular petrol version, which the old 208 GTI was. It was already much heavier and more powerful than the original 205 GTI, with all that weight going into making the car objectively better to live with.
4. I said they likely solved the problem by using a more refined powertrain that allows much better control of power delivery, making the too much power problem go away. It comes with extra weight which makes it quite the opposite of what you claimed - a solution that solves a bunch of problems, creating just 1 or 2, depending on your take on range. A good solution then.
1. OC said nothing about grip. They only said it can't handle the power. Could be torque steer. But I suppose that's irrelevant.
2. I said nothing about grip, I said it wouldn't be a problem. In my mind, we're talking about the new car. I don't know anything about the older 208 GTI, how much power it has, etc, I merely meant that more weight was not necessary, maybe more *tech* could have helped. Or, god forbid, less power.
3. I don't really have much to say here. I suppose I can see why a car that evolves could justify an increase in weight, but a several hundred kg increase just to change your powertrain and fix some of the bugs is not justified in my opinion.
4. I think myself, and other people, would perhaps see it differently. Reliability is a good thing. But maybe if the car is kinda clunky to operate...it's part of the charm? It's not for everyone, but it is what it is. So yeah, it's smoother, quieter, etc...but is it the car you wanted? If not...is that not a problem? Every thing it takes away by being electric...is the absence of each one of those things a problem on its one?
Petrol hot hatches are effectively dead due to European regulation, and especially in France. Cars are taxed based on CO2 in France, which make hot hatches unsellable. A GR Yaris for example has 70K added on top of list price, which will go up to 90K in 2 years. You could make a PHEV to avoid the tax but the added weight of batteries kind of defeat the point of a hot hatch. That's why Renault Sport doesn't exist anymore and has been replaced by Alpine EVs.
Unfortunately unless there's a huge regulation change, french petrol GTIs are dead.
I just assumed it was electric, based on EU, hot hatch and the current regulatory environment. I'd be more surprised if a combustion hot hatch were released in the EU right now.
I test drove a Bolt once and realized it actually does hot hatch things well due to being FWD, having a hatch, and having a decent amount of power. Well, except for when it was chirping tires on launch due to not having a limited slip like this 208 does. I see no reason hot hatches need to be combustion at this point.
I don't know why you're being down voted, as this is a valid point - we can't plead a business case that we'd buy this kind of vehicle in volume when we don't even have the choice. If the import ban was lifted, there could always be the off chance a manufacturer could see the sales and consider even a limited run of a vehicle for the US if volume supported it. Less likely in the case of something like Peugeot, where they don't have dealer support here, but I could see it on something like the M3 Touring, for example.
Given what the letter "i" stands for in GTi, I wonder if the people who continually point fun at Porsche for having "Turbo" versions of the Taycan and Macan EV are going to find this equally objectionable.
Sure, but the I in "GTI" has always represented "injection" (as in fuel injection) ever since Maserati coined the term for the 3500 GTI back in 1961 - well before Volkswagen and Peugeot borrowed it.
Oh no I totally get that! I just meant that, of all the combustion engine names, this one at least has a decent way of being co-opted. They could call it the iGT instead haha.
"1596kg hatchback"
What the actual fuck. No wonder the old 205 with it's around 900kg is getting more valuable day by day. Granted, if you would build a modern 205 with all the crash safety standards of today it will gain about 250 to 300kg, but that is still not as bad as 1600kg. You can bet the "typical Peugeot GTi agility" as stated in the article will be as contrived as a TikTok influencer.
Now going back to my 1030kg Suzuki Swift hatch.
At first I was excited, then less so when I saw those disgusting ass wheels; then re-excited when I saw the power, then fucking confused when I saw the weight of this tiny ass car; then deflated when I realised it was electric.
This was a ride. Not one I'm buying
I've never driven any Peugeot GTI other than the 205, and I wonder how much the later ones feel like the original. This electric 208 GTI does have more than twice the power of the original, but at almost 1600 kg it's also twice as heavy. So I'm sure it doesn't feel the same, but I'm interested wether the lift-off oversteer the 205 is so known for and other things like that are still there or not. The article appears to say it kinda does.
Either way, it does look great.
Not sure how big is the "45k€ B segment hot hatch" market, but it's getting crowded. More options is always good, and seeing the gti brand back is great, hope it does well
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