Australia vs Canada
Posted by Creative-Tangelo9124@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 77 comments
My family would like to leave the US due to the current political landscape, school shootings, declining education, etc. We have two toddlers and want to prioritize someplace with good resources and education systems. We both work in healthcare (nurse and infectious disease) and have masters degrees but would be open to exploring further education as a pathway to entry.
I would love any advice from those who have moved to Australia or Canada on your thoughts of ease of gaining a pathway in, moving and then family experience as we decide between the two options.
afsmire@reddit
Healthcare folks are in demand in both places. If you lean Australia, one key gotcha for Americans is you generally wont have Medicare until PR, so budget for private cover early on. There’s a lot of noise in this thread about whether Medicare is great or dead. If you want a quick data point instead of hot takes, this animated chart shows how federal Medicare funding has grown and shifted over time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w3TtYoAKxk. It doesn’t tell you wait times, but it’s helpful context on policy spend.
Day to day, wages for nurses are decent, housing is pricey in Sydney and Melbourne, and the distance to the US is realllly far with toddlers. Canada is easier for family visits adn application costs are lower, but winters are a different beast.
What matters most for you right now, fastest path to PR and getting onto a public system, or staying closer to family support?
mygatito@reddit
Canada's standard of living is dropping fast. Some parts are comparable to third world country with no healthcare and crime is way higher.
Careless-Accident257@reddit
I don't know if you have travelled much but your world view is very narrow. I came to Canada in 2014 as an international student (not the hooligan ones like today), paid good fee to a good university, graduated got a job, PR and now a citizen. There is absolutely no way Canada is heading towards a third world status. (I have lived in a third world country). You can argue compared to 2014 when I first came here, quality of life does feel like a drop with wages not going far as it used to but, like others have pointed out, same issues with UK, NZ, Aus, etc. I can speak for myself that last 4 years, especially after covid the quality and quantity of migrants we have taken into Canada are horrendous. I am not expert in public affairs or housing etc but, I feel like if we settled more cities in so much of land that we have, we would have had more than 3 cities (TOR, MTL, VAN) that we have today and it would be somewhat more balanced. To conclude, Canada is not a third world country, it has challenges like others, maybe some unique ones but, no not a 3rd world country yet or in 25-30 years.
Inevitable_Remote_95@reddit
Far from third world, feels like the people complaining don't even live amongst us.
Wrong-Tell8996@reddit
What type of crime? Am genuinely curious. I have a few friends from Canada and none of them have expressed this. The only concern they have expressed to me is the 51st state thing. They all live in Edmonton
mygatito@reddit
It used to be very safe area 4 years back when I had moved.
Just things have changed a lot within last year.
Violent crime and theft is up in my area. We just had a masked people barge into diplomat's apartment upstairs. My car has been broken into within last year. People shooting or throwing rocks at people's houses is a regular occurrence.
My area has been nicknamed 'Little Haiti' because of crime and trash everywhere.
People in the neighborhood are screaming all the time and there is Police involved every week now.
romeo_pentium@reddit
Which parts are those? My standard of living, healthcare, and absence of crime are great in Toronto.
Millennial_Snowbird@reddit
Same. I’m doing well in Toronto. Glad to be back after a decade in the US and the Netherlands.
Sensitive_Big4893@reddit
What are you, a billionaire?
Spirited-Dirt-9095@reddit
The people talking down Canada need to pull their privileged heads out of their arses and look at the cost of living/crime rates/healthcare elsewhere in the world.
Shawnino@reddit
Exactly why I left for Portugal--better health care, less crime. And Portugal's leaders encourage pride in their country, not shame.
flareyeppers@reddit
I've visited Portugal twice now including Lisbon and the south and it felt very run down, empty, dirty(graffity) and desolate. It seems most people leave the country after university for elsewhere in Europe for better opportunities.
Inevitable_Remote_95@reddit
95% of the population of portugal is ethnically native, going there as a POC is not going to be easy not to mention the happiness report is much lower than Canada.
Sensitive_Big4893@reddit
Yeah, we're quickly headed in that direction. And we're bloody angry about it.
Sensitive_Big4893@reddit
Please don't come to Canada. There are no jobs, and we've already taken in 800,000 immigrants in 4 months. 8000 jobs created in that time :/
A 2% population increase in 4 months.
You'll never be able to get a doctor Almost impossible to get a job You'll spend all your money on rent You'll never own a home Our streets are filled with drug addicts.
We're literally heading towards third-world country status very quickly.
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
here we see theres racists in Canada too. Complaining there is a heathcare shortage while telling doctors and nurses not to come is straight up nutsy
ArcticRock@reddit
sounds like a rebel news reader
Sensitive_Big4893@reddit
Is anything I said false?
Symmetrecialharmony@reddit
Jesus Christ this is a deranged take. The doom and gloom regarding Canada is insane and a clear tell that you haven’t actually looked at comparable nations. It’s tough right now, but that’s also true for literally any equivalent first world Western nation.
I wouldn’t leave the US to come to Canada, but I also wouldn’t really leave Canada to come to the US
RlOTGRRRL@reddit
Have you looked into New Zealand? It's next to Australia.
The country is super child friendly and if you are in healthcare, they have a straight to residence visa. They don't pay as well as Australia or Canada though.
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
ans housing stock is even worse than AU
FrowningRobin32@reddit
because you're a nurse, is better to go Australia, nurses are getting invited here even offshore. Accounting that you have good English and more than 3 years of work experience, you should get invited even offshore.
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
same with Canada
CrownRoyalForever@reddit
Don’t discount the simplicity of the TN visa for Canada. Although you must still deal with getting the necessary provincial certification, it is a much easier path than permanently emigrating to either country.
Also, you mention family experience. It’s a lot easier to visit your extended family from Canada. Australia is ridiculously far from the U.S. The flip side is that it is relatively close to Asia, where there are so many fun cultures and places to explore.
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
also if you plan to have kids education is light years ahead in Canada
Forsaken-Avenger@reddit
Don't come to Australia then majority of Australians are in favour of closed borders and think the gay community already have all the rights they need sounds like your a lefty and your kind most certainly would not like it here nor would be welcomed
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
again the blatant Australian ignorance, xenophobia and racism on display
Western-Bar5450@reddit
Canadians are much more welcoming of immigrants than Australia is. That’s where Australia resembles the US more
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
yes
SMTP2024@reddit
No jobs in Canada. The government actively promotes wage suppression. AUS is way better comparatively
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
there’s actually more good jobs in CA if you’re not a manual labourer
Icy_Respect_9077@reddit
Provincial health authorities are actively recruiting doctors and nurses.
SeanBourne@reddit
Between Australia and Canada, I'd say Australia for most things, except the education system here. It's pretty third rate. Canada's is marginally better, though nothing to write home about.
Significant headwinds in both countries - they've got major macroeconomic issues to deal with, and not terribly clear plans for doing so. Poor leadership has been endemic in both for decades, though Mark Carney in Canada is basically the equivalent of a generational talent on that front. If he can stay pragmatic and avoid ideology (a tough act in Canada), he could make a real difference there.
Others have suggested picking another part of the US - which is a legitimate contender vs. Australia or Canada.
The unfortunate fact is, there's no country currently that is going to be a 'silver bullet' solution on every factor. (The UK and NZ are also facing similar issues.)
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
Australian university is truly terrible and declining rapidly over the past decade
slightlyvapid_johnny@reddit
Australia and Canada both have housing issues and cost of living crises.
Try moving within the US to another state. It seems silly why Americans take the nuclear option and move further out rather than going somewhere close to home. The US is enormous and not homogenous
Try Massachusetts? I found Boston very like Melbourne.
staygold-ne@reddit
The grass is always greener
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
yes, it is in a democracy vs dictatorship
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
its a dictatorship mate. Wake up
Shawnino@reddit
Left Canada last year because of the deteriorating healthcare system. And I was just a patient. I can't imagine working under those conditions.
On nursing specifically, be very careful which province you land in, lest you make a med error. Some provinces, like BC, are remedial in nature to help nurses be more mindful of their practice. Other provinces, like PEI, focus on meting out punishment (or suspending/revoking licences). I have seen staffers knife each other over a simple med error because, well, someone's going to lose the licence and it's every practitioner for himself.
More generally, like Cuba and North Korea, private health care in Canada is not legal. We are slowly seeing private family medicine clinics making small inroads in a few provinces, but there is nothing like a full, private system. In the late 60s Canada copied all those European countries who had socialised medicine soon after the war (UK, W. Germany, France...) but never learned the lesson of allowing a parallel private system to take stress of the public one. Politicians love to add procedures and say they are "covered", but timely access for anything other than urgent, life-threatening issues is another matter.
An example I write about maybe-too-much in here is gastric bypass surgery in the province I left. There are 2,000 patients approced and on the list, and a triage nurse sliding them up and down based on how life is treating them. So "it's covered!" but there's one doctor performing the procedure, with table time for 64 surgeries a year. 30-year waiting list. Hooray, it's covered!
Advanced_Stick4283@reddit
It seriously never was like this
Until the floodgate of immigration
So in affect you’re complaining about yourself
CuriousLands@reddit
You're getting downvoted but what you said is absolutely the truth. Some pressures on the system are the same as what you find elsewhere, including in countries with parallel private systems (and historically that was mostly allowed to appease people wanting to profit more off this stuff). Thinks like lots of staff retiring, an ageing populace, wait times are growing, etc - but also, costs going up means more people can't afford to see doctors (even more so for specialists), insurance costs a lot and is not always great value for money, and I've heard news of hospitable closing or going into receivership due to financial issues ... yeah Canada has issues, but I have to say they don't have those issues.
But one thing you see all over a bunch of countries that Canada has worse than others is actually the immigration issue. They really opened the floodgates morning to immigrants but to temporary foreign workers too. More people = more healthcare services needed, and way more people coming in are not medically trained than are. It's bound to cause problems. And inform think it's wrong to say so. Australia also has this very same problem, just to a lesser degree.
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
not to mention de-privatisation being necessary due to private hospitals letting women die in AU. Many places in AU women can’t give birth at the hospital. Does CA have the same? Private healthcare is the path to US style pay up or die but Australia’s too poorly educated to have the critical thinking skills required to recognise that. They’re too busy blaming immigrants to notice its private healthcare eroding their free healthcare and not the immigrant healtcare workers. Also Australia doubling down on robodebt by using shit AI to decide NDIS and aged care is a totally forseeable disaster building right now
ElijahSavos@reddit
Unpopular opinion: you should try Canada.
First of all it’s close by so please come and visit to decide if that’s something you’re looking for. Secondly there additional ways to get a residence in Canada for Americans (for example a TN visa). Thirdly it’s not all doom and gloom as other suggested in here. Canada is way more liberal, very safe and nice country to live in. There is an issue for housing affordability but you don’t have to live in the most expensive markets like Toronto or Vancouver. You can choose other cities or smaller communities where housing costs will be manageable.
Good luck on your move. If you choose Canada, welcome!
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
also politically CA is moving in the right direction while AU is extremely susceptible to right wing manipulation and too naiive to realise it due to being poorly educated
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
Agreed.
r/InCanada
bebefinale@reddit
I'm American and moved to Australia getting PR through employer sponsorship. Mostly I'm happy here, nowhere's perfect but it's a nice place to live. In many ways it is safer, cleaner, and more chilled out than the US even in cities like Sydney.
In your situations a few things to consider:
--Australia is very far from the US if you want to visit family. 14 hours from California, and closer to 24-30 hours if you want to get to the Midwest or East Coast with a 13-16 hour time difference depending on where in the US and how DST aligns. This can be a bit of a slog with young kids and can get expensive.
--Until you get PR you don't have access to a lot of the good things that Australia has to offer in terms of public services. You don't have access to the public healthcare system medicare and you need to use private insurance as a condition of your visa. A big one for families is you don't have access to a subsidy for childcare, meaning childcare will be very expensive at full fees. You have to pay tuition to use public schools which Aussies get for free. For all practical purposes you can't buy a house (technically you can build a new house on a plot of land if you get special approval but there are a lot of stipulations). You aren't entitled to government paid parental leave. There's probably something else I'm forgetting.
--Depending on what exactly you do in healthcare, your credentials may not immediately qualify. It really varies exactly what you do, I do believe there is paperwork to get your credentials recognized as a nurse.
--Depending on where in the US you live it may be a bit of a sticker shock. I think as expensive as Sydney is, if you are coming from big cities in California or New York, it will likely feel pretty comparable. If you are coming from Cleveland or something, you might get some major sticker shock.
--Salaries tend to be lower and taxes tend to be higher for upper middle class professionals than in the US, although this varies a bit depending on where you are moving from. The big phase out of subsidies and progressive tax increases remind me a bit of a blue state on steroids. Also similar housing crunch and NIMBY problems. There is also more wage compression between high and low skilled workers which I think is surprising to Americans.
Otherwise I think it's nicer for kids on average and better for families in lots of ways. No school shootings. Most people don't save for college because it's relatively affordable and people can take out a reasonable amount of loans that don't destroy their life, and the entitlements around parental leave are generally much better.
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
uni is absolutely not affordable any more in Australia outside a few vocational degrees
bebefinale@reddit
Uni is affordable relative to the U.S. HECS is a reasonable way to structure debt compared to how it’s done in the U.S.
Western-Bar5450@reddit
Where do you live? House prices are outrageous here
bebefinale@reddit
Sydney
Western-Bar5450@reddit
One of the most expensive in Australia after Gold Coast
leftover_carbon@reddit
This is an impressively accurate list. I’ve been here 14 years now and am startlingly reminded of life in the early days before PR.
Yes. The time for credentials to be recognised. The effort into breaking into the market. The sticker shock! The cultural differences and time it took to make a solid friend group.
And also the nice benefits. Ultimately, I’m so grateful to be raising my kids here, but though first years were hella rough.
bebefinale@reddit
Yeah I qualified for direct entry through my job and I'm really grateful that I bypassed all this stuff. I've had a lot of health needs lately and Medicare has been a godsend. We're planning on having a baby soon and paying for childcare without the subsidy + Sydney rents would be super rough.
No-Barracuda-7657@reddit
I can't speak to Australia but would be cautious about Canada. There are headwinds. One of the highest household debt levels in the world. Weak economic projections. High unemployment. A brutal housing crisis. Cost of living crisis. Medical system under strain. Manufacturing sector damaged by tariffs. The US openly threatening annexation (seems unlikely, but still...). The list goes on. It's still a good place to live for many, but there are serious problems and a lack of obvious solutions/paths forward right now. Again, caution advised.
CuriousLands@reddit
Most of those concerns also apply to Australia too.
OneUpAndOneDown@reddit
Australian winters are much milder though. And no bears.
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
Australia has more heat related deaths though and skin cancer deaths
CuriousLands@reddit
Yeah they're milder, but it doesn't matter. It's significantly colder a typical Aussie house when it's 10 degrees outside, than it was ina draft house when inward a kid in the 80s in Canada. I jokingly call Aussie winter "camping season" because it feels like you're camping inside your own house.
That gets really fun if you live inland or further south than I do, where it might be 4 degrees outside (or colder; inland it drops below zero overnight) and it's at least the cold inside, and you're running around in a wet towel after a shower. Or when you just stay in the couple of rooms that are heated by your space heater and avoid going into the other rooms of you can help it. Or when you can see your breath as you're eating breakfast.
I'll take a Canadian winter in a Canadian house over an Aussie winter in an Aussie house any day.
OneUpAndOneDown@reddit
Fair. It’s 5 degrees C outside (feels like 2 degrees because of the wind) and without the fire it’d be about 12 inside my old stone house. It’s frustrating that Australian houses are so badly insulated. I remember being in London when it was -5C outdoors but everywhere was heated, with double glazing. BUT Canadian winters will kill you if you get stuck outside. Aussie ones won’t.
CuriousLands@reddit
Yeah, Aussie ones usually won't, which is why I think so many people just choose to grit their teeth and bear it instead of insisting on modern living standards.
Thought that said, I have reading the news that Australia has more cold-related deaths than Sweden does, and it's because it's so darn cold inside and people are encouraged to skimp on heat like this to save money. During the Pandemic, I got non-COVID pneumonia, and oh man could I believe that stat. I was sick as a dog, and then your clothes are all cold, your bed and couch are cold, there air you breathe is cold... unless you run the heater literally constantly, which gets pricey. It made being sick like 20x worse. I could totally see that making the difference between shaking it off and not, especially if you were old or otherwise vulnerable.
OneUpAndOneDown@reddit
Damn.
It really is crap. And our houses are stupidly expensive even with the lousy construction standards.
CuriousLands@reddit
Yeah I'm a big fan of oodies myself when I'm just bumming around, I use it as an extra blanket too. But I also have a heating pad for when I need it.
Well I think here's some variation around the country, but the part of Canada from (the west), everyone has central heating and uses natural gas to heat things. It does get a little pricey especially since they have a carbon tax on the gas. But things are insulated pretty well, and that goes a long way.
Yeah, I could handle the poor quality better if it didn't all cost so darn much, lol. At least if you got them at fixer-upper prices you could put the money into renovating to make it work better.
thesog@reddit
Drop bears. Gotta be careful.
OneUpAndOneDown@reddit
That’s why we have Vegemite pistols.
Negative_Success_r8@reddit
this isn’t accurate. They would have free healthcare and school on a skilled visa
Moist-Ninja-6338@reddit
Agreed. No private health care system only public where DR and Nurses work under somewhat difficult situations at times
TOAdventurer@reddit
Nurses and doctors may work under difficult situations at times, but they are incredibly well compensated. Nurses can make over 100k, with options for OT, a gold plated benefits package and a defined benefits pension.
Doctors start at 350k.
And those are guaranteed wages paid by the tax payer.
The average Canadian, in contrast, makes 60k.
Previous-Ice-3197@reddit
I would say both country are wild but I prefer the wild life of Canada (bears...) than the Australian one (spider, big flying things haha).
Check out this site could help you to figure out as well: https://www.expat-way.com/
Ikimaska@reddit
Australia is not perfect but it's still a good country to raise a family and have a nice lifestyle, though rents are high. People in the medical profession get paid pretty well and medicare still works quite well. It's far away from much of the world, but this is both a pro and a con.
Forsaken-Avenger@reddit
Rent is high because of our unsustainable immigration intake also our lack of industry and jobs also due to immigration Medicare is dead also due to the millions upon millions here putting strain on something it waa never created to sustain artificial population increases of uneducated non English speaking migrants whom sponge off those of us who actually work to support the majority of you who choose not too
Tasty_Garbage_6030@reddit
If you were to move to a place in Australia, be mindful that the more popular places like Sydney and melbourne are way more expensive than places like Perth and Adelaide. In aus, we have Medicare cards that can sometimes make healthcare free.
sandgrubber@reddit
Add New Zealand to your list. Healthcare may get you Skilled Migrant visas. Most of Oz is hot, dry (apart from occasional floods) and flat. NZ has mountains and lots of water...a variety of climates.
CuriousLands@reddit
I'm Canadian in Australia, with an Aussie husband. Both countries could definitely use more healthcare staff so you're good there. But I will say Canada is much cheaper to apply to; Australia has one of the most expensive application processes out there.
But at the end of the day it depends a lot on what kind of lifestyle you want and what your values are. Both countries have similar issues with COL, housing affordability etc. I find the housing quality in Canada to be much better than in Aus, and it's better being a renter there too. On the other hand, the cold long winters and more polite society are not for everyone (some prefer the more direct/blunt culture of Australia).
Just some food for thought.
PrimePlaya@reddit
Come back with an opinion when you’ve lived in Canada long term. Just because things are bad in other countries doesn’t mean it invalidates our experience in Canada.
Silver-Visual-7786@reddit
You will be living in a basement suite in Canada with people over dosing on drugs all around you. You won’t have enough money to feed your family due to taxes and low wages. I would recommend Mexico for a better quality of life than Canada.
Sensitive_Big4893@reddit
Im learning Spanish to move to a Latino Country
Mr_Lumbergh@reddit
If you're considering Aus, the most likely pathway given your background is the Skilled Migrant. I can't image either of your backgrounds not being on the Migration Occupation in Demand List, but even so it'll take a couple years to navigate the process.
First step is to check how many points you're eligible for.