Is it normal for UK employees to vanish on vacation without notice?
Posted by canada11235813@reddit | AskABrit | View on Reddit | 276 comments
It's hard to ask the question in one sentence, so let me clarify.
For the the third time in about as many years, this following has happened:
With dealing with a company based in the UK (I'm 8 hours behind), it's always a bit of struggle to align work times. We're getting started as you're all leaving for the day. And when you start your day, it's midnight here. I've found myself up in the middle of the night more than once, just to be sure I can manage some things in real time.
That's all an annoyance, but that's how it is. You can't solve that; just manage it,.
However...
Imagine going back and forth with someone, 5 back-and-forths in a day as you're approaching a deadline. I was dealing with it continually over the last two days in the middle of the night. We're almost at the finish line... so I get up this morning to follow-up on where we left things... fire off an email at 8am (4pm there) and get an auto-response that this person is "on vacay" till June 23. Cheerio.
Keep in mind we were in a very real-time back-and-forth for two days, and we could wind this all up today, except -- gone. Without a single word about this pending time off, even as recently as 8 hours ago when we last communicated.
As I said, this is not the first time. The last couple of times it wasn't so immediate... more like "I'll reach out in a few days", getting back "sounds good", and then a few days later they're gone for 2 weeks. And then speaking to someone else in the organization, and THEY go away without telling me they're about to.
I obviously have no problem with people taking their time off, but around here, it's pretty unusual (in fact, unheard of) to just bail without notice with someone with whom you've been conversing.
I tell people here and they all reply with "That's weird". I certainly think so, but maybe it's an accepted cultural thing there? I'd love to know.
Ok-Start8985@reddit
No
Enough-Variety-8468@reddit
I'm expected to put together a handover email for anything that might come up while I'm away. That would go to my manager but I wouldn't be expected to update anyone within my organisation that I'd been working with.
That's just good manners though and I'd do it anyway, give them my manager's details and let my manager know to expect to hear from them.
My Out of Office also has alternative emails to contact in my absence
Redgrapefruitrage@reddit
If you're actively working with someone on a task, it is unusual to just up and go without letting you know who you can talk to in their absence. A little unprofessional to not say "Hey I'm going on leave for two weeks tomorrow, Janet will be your contact for X whilst I'm away."
If you're not working with them on something, I wouldn't expect them to say if they were going on holiday or not.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Right... two out of the three times this happened, the auto-responder did indeed point me in the direction of someone else. It was abrupt and unexpected, but manageable... just perplexing to not have been told.
This time, there's really no one else to take it over, so things are stalled for a couple of weeks.
WotanMjolnir@reddit
Maybe you aren't quite as important to this person as you think you are...
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Actually, I am! Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
WotanMjolnir@reddit
Fucking lol! Has 30 employees and feels the need to designate themselves as ‘Chief’ anything!
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
You don't quite understand how the real world works, do you?
pintsizedblonde2@reddit
I've been in the corporate world for over 20 years. If you're not a publically listed company or a large charity there is no C-suite. You're just a Director.
In the UK you'd be laughed out of the room describing yourself as C-Suite. This is probably half your problem.
I say this as an owner and Managing Director of a company. I would never call myself the CEO!
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
And I’ve been doing this for 30 years, thought not sure how in any way that’s relevant.
If I were in the UK, perhaps I’d be more familiar with your customs and conventions. Here in Canada, as I said elsewhere, I’ve dealt with 3-employee companies where 2 of them were C-level. Some people like to structure things properly before a flood of new hires causes seismic shifts in the org chart.
pintsizedblonde2@reddit
You have no idea what C-level means. A 3-person company has zero C-level personnel. The person you are dealing with is more senior AND is your client. Grow up!
By your logic I am a CEO and senior to all of my clients. Even the senior managers in multi-billion global businesses because they are not C-level, even though my business has 8 people in total. What a joke!
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Actually, by my logic, you're one of these people who can never admit they're wrong and one day wake up wondering why they're all alone and all their friends have abandoned them. Textbook toxic personality. I feel very sorry for your employees, whatever title you offer them.
Well, here you go... a small list of Canadian companies I happen to be familiar with who conveniently list their C-level officers on their websites. These are all sub-20 employee companies:
https://peekapak.com/about
https://www.quillpodcasting.com/our-story#team-section
https://societyfive0.com/team
https://www.emerge-commerce.com/team/executive-leadership/default.aspx
There are countless others, my own company included.
And, by the way, using alternate accounts to upvote your nonsense and downvote my posts is among the most pathetic things I've ever seen on Reddit. Is your ego so fragile you need to pretend to prop it up?
Here's some advice for you, though if you're telling the truth and have been bashing around industry for over 20 years, this will undoubtedly go in one ear and out the other:
Learn to admit you're wrong. Learn from your mistakes. I've dealt with too many companies who have someone like you at the top, and their employees are fucking miserable. You must wonder what they say about you behind your back. You must wonder why your turnover is so high. You must wonder why the respect sometimes doesn't feel genuine.
The answer to all of that is facing you in the mirror.
pintsizedblonde2@reddit
I have one account. Yes, there are other people out there (almost all in tech and in North America) who class themselves as C-suite. That doesn't make them correct. It also doesn't mean they look down on clients who aren't "C-Suite ".
Why would my employees be miserable because I call myself Managing Director and not CEO? I'm not up my own arse like you are and with how you seem to have a massive issue about who is your junior in your eyes I suspect my employees are much happier than your's. I don't see them as less than me like you do. I might be ultimately in charge along with my co-founder but we listen to them and don't let clients give them crap. We have taken new people on but we haven't had a single resignation yet. Nice assumption though.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Excellent — I’m happy to hear you acknowledge that Canada, a country of 35 million people, plus, the United States of America, a country of 330 million people — are ALL wrong and you’re right.
I am going to go back to what I said above… though I realize it will not resonate with you.
My experience with narcissists is that they are simply unable to see in themselves what is being described about them. The number one thing? Their inability to admit they are wrong.
Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, the kind that I provided, that you couldn’t help but acknowledge, you still insist that are right. Do you not see the issue?
Actually, apologies for rhetorical question. I know that you do not. There’s clearly no sense in continuing this discussion and I wish you well, and I especially wish your employees well because they will need it.
WotanMjolnir@reddit
My real world doesn’t require at least 3% of an organisation headcount to be part of the ‘C suite’, and I’m struggling to believe that you are the only ‘Chief’ anything - I bet there’s a CFO and a COO, and I would be unsurprised if they were family members. The comical need for such a title tickles me, when there are less self-felating titles available.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
This company, when it stated in 2019, had three officers. One was the CEO. Another was the CFO. The other was Head of Product. How do you feel about that? 67% C-roles!!!
Yes, I understand you don't "get it", but, again, here's some real-world knowledge for you: If you intend to start a company and grow it to $1M+ in top-line revenue in 3 years and north of $3M in 5, you need to have a proper structure and reporting infrastructure and a whole lot of things. I get it that it's a big joke to you, but that is the real world I speak of.
WotanMjolnir@reddit
Oh, bless - I fully understand how hierarchy and reporting structures work in a business environment. I just find it cute that you have the word Chief in your title, along with seemingly 10% of the people in your business, and seem to view it like some kind of magic incantation that allows you to carry out the roles and responsibilities of the business leader. Also, 1mill turnover and three people in C-suite salaries? That doesn’t seem very balanced, but I guess I just don’t ’get it’.
Also, not doing a stellar job of proving how not upset you were by someone just stopping communication, and you were just curious about why. Anyway, I’m going to be another person who Just stops talking to you, but at least I’m giving you a heads up here. Toodles!
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Well -- I was going to respond with, once again, "you clearly don't understand how the real world works...", but I wanted to actually see with whom I was actually conversing and had a quick look at your profile and previous posts and comments.
My apologies. I hope things get better for you, and if you want to use me and/or anyone else as a punching bag to vent your frustrations, go right ahead. I'm not offended.
TheFunInDysfunction@reddit
If it helps, I’m in a great place and I agree that you sound like a pompous twat with a small dick
phleshlight@reddit
It's you who doesn't "get it". I appreciate you're not American (good for you) but we don't have that culture. Complain to your manager, instead of moaning on Reddit. You use Americanisms like "c-suite" - nobody in the UK gives a fuck about that. I hope your colleague is having a good time on his annual leave.
MonkeyHamlet@reddit
So the thing no one can take over will take a day and the person is back seven days before the deadline.
And the other two have provided alternative contacts.
What more do you want? You’re not friends, you’re a kind of high maintenance sounding colleague.
feersum@reddit
This.
I suspect OP is being such a try-hard American pain-in-the-arse, that the people he’s working with are passively aggressively tapping him out to their auto-responders with a wry smile.
OP - you vented a lot about the time difference, and how much management it takes. You may want to look at managing the cultural differences a little better?
Some of the things that will get you ahead in the US will put you behind in other countries - and vice-versa.
It’s great you’re asking here though - shows potential.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
feersum@reddit
They both put you on auto-responder and listed each other as the point of contact?! Ha ha - that’s hilarious. Lessons still to learn perhaps… 🙈
TheSecretIsMarmite@reddit
I can see why the OP wasn't given a heads up tbh. They sound very needy and maybe the type to ask for a number to contact them on while they are on leave.
MonkeyHamlet@reddit
Their fixation on being “C level” and one of these people “one level lower” screams entitlement
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
LOL. Yeah, ok. Eat the Rich. I get it.
Context is important, you know.
MonkeyHamlet@reddit
You have a LOT of time on your hands for a Very Important Person.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
It's called delegation and it's a wonderful thing to be able to manage properly.
MonkeyHamlet@reddit
You delegate your Reddit comments? Wow.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
MonkeyHamlet@reddit
If you encounter one asshole, you’ve met an asshole.
If three coworkers ghost you, the problem is you.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
What about the other 50,000 that haven't ghosted me? How does the math work in that case?
MonkeyHamlet@reddit
So why aren’t you fixated on them, instead of the couple of PAs who didn’t respond to your dubious charms?
Worldly_Science239@reddit
So it is about taking the holiday, not about the notification
MickyG1982@reddit
Difficult if it is a bereavement.
The last thing on my mind is work when that happens..
Icy_Quality_1359@reddit
Born and lived here my whole life, family immigrated from Europe. They all have a 'relaxed' attitude. 😁
I've found this within work on a lower level. As I've gone up the ladder a bit, and if you are working closely to finalise work, then you advise on your upcoming holiday. I have always informed people that I won't be available. More so now as my job in my organisation is a 1 person job, no one else does it or can pick up my loose ends.
I'm not sprung tight, or a control freak. But I do let people know and appreciate it in return. I don't always get it in return, then I'll wait or if it's pressing, I contact someone higher within that company, team, ect.
LordAnchemis@reddit
Legally - if they're on leave, they're on leave - if it is mission critical, should be someone else covering
CaptainHope93@reddit
I would say this is completely normal if you have to speak to a large volume of people during the workday, even if it’s a back-and-forth.
I might speak to over 100 clients by email or phone throughout the week. The best way to let them all know that I’m on annual leave is to put my out-of-office on (also has the email of someone they can contact if it’s urgent). Personally contacting each person to let them know is unnecessary and a huge waste of time.
There’s a good chance that whatever you’re working on together can be picked up again once they’re back, or that they’ve apprised someone else in the company of the details if it truly is urgent.
Zusi99@reddit
Annual leave is booked. Depending on the workload of the person going on leave and their relationship with people in other companies, they may not have the time / inclination to let people know until they go.
Leaving in the middle of a work day is either a half day already booked off, a training that was already booked, or sudden sickness where they went home.
Also, from the title, I thought staff would take annual leave and never came back.
JCDU@reddit
Depends - if they're in the middle of a back & forth with you on something serious I'd expect a courtesy heads-up in advance and maybe a hand-over to a colleague while they're away.
If it's just general to & fro that's not urgent then yeah, some folks just set an out of office and deal with it when they get back - UK/Europe doesn't have the chained-to-the-desk work culture that the US does.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
FWIW, I'm a C-level member of my company talking to someone just below a C-level manager on the other side. I'm talking directly to the guy over there because he's overseeing a group whose agreement and acknowledgment is necessary to finalize a contract between our firms. We had been going back and forth on this because we all need it wrapped up by end of month, and there's actually nobody else there who can take this over without me having to bring them up to speed.
I'm sure we can wrap it all up in the last week of the month, so I'm not concerned... just perturbed at how this came to such an abrupt pause.
JohnnyOneLung@reddit
Well on the out of office, does it say ‘in my absence please contact….’
And you knowing they were on leave the next day would have changed what ? Would you have got it sorted the day before ? If so, why didn’t you just get it sorted the day before? Why drag it out.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
If I'd known they were going to bail at the last minute, I indeed would've tried to get it done a day earlier. How could I have known?
haunted_otter@reddit
sounds like you weren't treating the task with the urgency it demanded, then. thought you "c level" types were supposed to be good at strategy
fzr600dave@reddit
End of the Month and they are back on the 23rd, yeah they'll sort it when they get back, as you said it can be done in a day, so why are you worried?
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
Simple-Pea-8852@reddit
Your edit doesn't really answer this...
gregariousrabbit@reddit
They were saying that they’re not worried about it, just curious essentially. They’re not worried about the project, just wanted to know if this was normal in uk culture :)
elkirku@reddit
With this context I don't see why an external employee would need to give you a heads up on their annual leave.
If it had the potential to impact the timeline of the work you were discussing then I would expect a handover but it seemingly doesn't
It sounds like they have 7 calendar days to give you the information required and so there should be no expectation on your side to be informed of a third party's holiday.
Quite simply, it's none of your business as it doesn't impact any work your two companies are engaged in.
Simple-Pea-8852@reddit
Maybe the person on leave has brought someone else on their side up to speed. Is there someone on the ooo!
pringellover9553@reddit
Are you really c level? Just your use of language and your way of speaking doesn’t translate to a top level exec?
jimbobsqrpants@reddit
What even is C-level
JCDU@reddit
I can't help but think anyone describing themselves as C-level on reddit there's only one C-word that applies.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
CEO, CFO, CIO etc. Sorry, perhaps not conventionally-used terms in the UK.
Jezehel@reddit
As much as I love the other Redditor's response, to answer your question, C-level is like CEO, CFO etc. The real high honchos in a business
jimbobsqrpants@reddit
You mean the people who don't actually do the stuff.
Never heard it referred to in that way.
Jezehel@reddit
Yeah, pretty much lol. I think it's mainly an Americanism to call them C-level but I spend too much time on Reddit
TheAmazingSealo@reddit
the average surface level of the ocean
jimbobsqrpants@reddit
Makes sense, thank you.
banxy85@reddit
They're back before the end of the month. Sounds like there is no issue.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
There's no issue other than me wondering if this is conventional behaviour. As I said above, it's no big deal. Just a simple question.
Popular-Reply-3051@reddit
Unless this person has been told by their bosses not to touch it anymore and the C-level will pick it up but they have just been crap?? Or the C-level don't want to touch it but didn't tell your contact that so the contact thought you'd be dealt with in their absence (so no need to tell you)?
Does seem odd and makes me think something else took priority. I know I'm sometimes working unpaid overtime before a hol to ensure all the work is done or handed off properly but being only human I probably miss some poor person
AlpsSad1364@reddit
You're being downvoted for being a hated capitalist manager and class enemy to the reddit hivemind, but no, it's not normal. People normally have the courtesy to say "btw, I'm away next week" and someone who doesn't is probably a jerk.
Worldly_Science239@reddit
So, if there's no one else who could have taken over, what difference does it make?
I guess from the other persons point of view they would have worries that you would bombard them with 100s of questions in the day or 2 leading up to the holiday, or try to convince them to take calls while on holiday, asking them to work late in the days leading up to the holiday or criticise them for taking a break at what you consider a critical time.
I'm not saying you would have done any of those, but that would have been my concern after dealing with american clients in the past.
And as you say, there's no one else who could have taken over, so what would you have wanted to achieve from them telling you.
Fluffy_Register_8480@reddit
Yeah, that person has completed or handed over their priority tasks. They’ll pick this thing up with you when they get back. I would have expected a courtesy heads up, however.
Gisschace@reddit
Is this a coworker or are they a client?
rickyman20@reddit
It sounds to me like your coworker agrees that since it's not urgent and can be resolved fairly quickly, there was no need to give a heads up. It is common to have a person to hand over things to while people are away on holiday and to list them on their OOO email, but given that there was nothing that needed to get delivered while they were away, that might be why they didn't feel a need to do that.
fergie_89@reddit
This 100%.
I deal with people mainly in the UK and europe. I tend to give a heads up a week in advance and my out of office has my managers details in who picks up my work in my absence.
I mainly deal with sites in England and give them notice a couple of weeks in advance and the amount of emails that suddenly flood in the day I go away is insane. Unfortunately I became important without meaning too so have to make people aware. I was working until 6pm last night despite starting at 7am
To me it's just inconsiderate not to let people know however I have a lot of people who just don't bother.
JimmySquarefoot@reddit
Oap doesn't say if they're a coworker or a client, or some other relationship.
That would surely change things too. I assumed coworker from how the OP worded things and that they're sharing a project, in which case a common courtesy would definitely be to explain you're gonna be away. But it depends on the shared responsibility of the task.
Also to add that I wouldn't lump UK/Europe together in terms of not being "chained to the desk" - lived in Portugal and worked for Italian, French and Spanish companies and one thing they all shared was the inability to respond to a simple email without being reminded at least 5 times.
The UK and USA actually share a lot in common with regard to shitty hustle culture and terrible work/life balance, unfortunately
JCDU@reddit
American companies in the UK import their shitty culture, most UK companies I've worked for have been far more sane and closer to European attitudes.
boudicas_shield@reddit
Everywhere I’ve worked in the UK, you also include the contact information for who people should contact in your absence. I’ve never just left for holiday for two weeks without including the name and email of who people should contact instead of me if they need something. Clients aren’t just left high and dry with no warning.
Denika-Hornety@reddit
exactly. it's wild how in the US, people feel guilty for being unreachable on vacation, while in most of europe it's like... of course you're offline, you're on holiday. The cultural difference in work life boundaries is honestly massive
Spudbanger@reddit
OP probably isn't in the US, but Canada, given their name.
RegularFun_throwaway@reddit
Pretty normal - but if you are the CEO could you get employees to add upcoming holidays to their email sign off as standard so you don't get surprised by this? My thoughts are they see themselves as employees so when they are off, they are off and that is the company's (i.e. your) problem.
Fickle-Salamander-65@reddit
No that’s not normal. Someone at the supplier should’ve made it very clear that your contact had leave booked. I’ve never worked anywhere that would allow people to disappear.
SHRMark@reddit
Sometimes people will have an ‘advanced notice of leave’ on their email signature a few weeks before. Otherwise, yes people go on leave with an alternative contact in the OOO.
Your post seems deeper than this though. Many people will have 100s of plates spinning so your project is maybe 1/100 of their headspace. Most will try to remember everything, including covering for other people, but sometimes things aren’t at the front of our memory.
From experience the PA example you gave, they are 99% more interested in getting their suitcase packed for a week abroad than your project (sorry but it’s the truth as the world will not implode if it’s not done that week). I wouldn’t be surprised if they put their OOO on a few hours before at lunch time so they can tie loose ends up without dealing with new requests coming in. I’ve advised admin staff to do this many times if they are a bit stressed before AL.
New_Line4049@reddit
From my perspective as a Brit I'd think it normal to be mentioned in passing, but wouldn't be surprised if it isn't. As the employee it's not my job to manage the impact of leave. I've informed my manager, within my company, and had the time off approved, it's the bosses job to organise things to mitigate the impact.
carguy143@reddit
It depends on what level you're dealing with someone and if you're dealing with an individual or a team. When I worked as a fault manager for an ISP, I would often get to know my customers quite well, along with the people at our suppliers if the need arose for an escalation and I always used to give them a heads up if I was going to be off, just as an assurance that I had arranged for someone else to cover me rather than leave them in the lurch. Then again, i guess that's just me.
Louise521@reddit
If you haven’t done the appropriate small talk to acquire the exact dates and destinations of my upcoming holidays over the duration of our talks then you don’t deserve to know where I am.
Cheek-Tricky@reddit
Tbh it depends on two factors
How specifically those emails are to me and how much conversation is going on
In my current role where i don’t have email conversations but directed questions to a group and one of the group picks it up and responds I’d not say anything
In my previous role where I was a specific contact point for a customer i let them know I’d be away for a few days and will be back soon in the mean time mrs x can help deal with any issues till I return
That said internally there are people who message more than just work info such as saying happy birthday asking how my weekend was, and at the end usually say something along the lines of I’ll message you Monday they would get a heads up
So if it’s not a conversation but a series of questions and fixes with out personal interaction yeah I’d just leave a polite unfortunately im away from the business at the moment please contact xyz (same as I would for illness/being suspended/getting sacked etc)
Kinwesteros@reddit
I’m curious why they have to tell you they are going on annual leave. Are you their client? Are they your client? I have about 200 clients and I do not tell them I am on annual leave (I will if we have been communicating a lot and introduce one of my colleagues if they are waiting on something) but if they were to contact me there would be the email and phone number of someone else to reach out to until I am back
clovek7@reddit
The problem with letting everyone know that you won't be contactable for 2 weeks is that all of those people will suddenly decide their matter is urgent and you'll have a million new deadlines for just before you're away. In reality a lot of these things can wait, but people panic when someone is going to be off and arbitrarily want everything done now. I'm pretty selective about who give any warning to about my leave, because I know some of my clients just can't cope with it even if it has no actual tangible impact. On the other hand, when I do tell people it seems to be in one ear and out the other, and I come back to find they've still completely lost their minds at not being able to reach me, even with warning. You can't win.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
clovek7@reddit
Not sure if the very defensive part of your edit was intended to include any response to my comment, but for the record, I was not insinuating that you are an arsehole. I agree with the general consensus that it could be seen as a bit rude to duck out on holiday without any warning in the middle of active engagement with someone. But in the spirit of providing some explanation to your query, I was simply stating why a lot of the time, I personally would rather be seen as a bit rude than have to deal with the backlash of giving any warning about my upcoming leave. Which is not to say that you specifically would be the perpetrator of that backlash.
I learnt that lesson 3 months after qualifying as a lawyer, when I told all my contacts that I was taking a few weeks off to get married, and had the few days before my wedding utterly ruined by several panicky clients not wanting an alternative contact to pick up the matter in my absence, because as a junior my fees were lower and they didn't want to pay more. Other clients were lovely and left me alone, but it was bad enough not to risk it again. I'll be going on maternity leave in 3 weeks and none of my clients know I'm pregnant. First they'll know is when I let them know who their new contact is, shortly before I slam my laptop closed for a year ✌️
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
That's fair, and I appreciate the response. I think there are so many different versions of people and their jobs and what they do and how they communicate... everyone will have a different method of dealing with it, and obviously it makes sense for them. I think that all of that, though, isn't really relevant. I understand people go away, I understand the mad rush it might cause and how people might try to avoid it. My simple question is whether one of those methods is to ghost someone, literally mid-sentence. We don't do that around here, but, of course, Canadians are known for being too polite and maybe this is an aspect of it.
No-Assumption-1738@reddit
Yeah we definitely do it here, can’t speak of someone of your seniority but I have a bunch of friends that take great joy in slamming that laptop shut after setting up their out of office.
Simple-Pea-8852@reddit
You yourself said in another comment that if you'd known you would have tried to get it done sooner before they went away. That's happening for the person going on holiday with every single client.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Not that it would’ve mattered I suppose, but perhaps the original posting made it sound like I’m a customer wanting to purchase something and felt slighted when I wasn’t treated properly.
Not that it matters also because the King of England or a Starbucks barista both deserve the same level of respect.
Simple-Pea-8852@reddit
Regardless - it's happening with every single interaction. If they didn't think it was urgent and knew you were going to try to hurry it along when half a dozen other people are also trying to hurry projects along the I can see why they didn't tell you.
clovek7@reddit
I get what you're saying. But this is Reddit. You're asking in the wrong place if you want a binary yes or no answer to literally anything, inducing "is the sky blue?".
elparaguas@reddit
I’m genuinely going through this exact scenario at my job now lol. I turn on my out of office reply tomorrow. Do not care ✌🏼
WhoLetTheSinkIn@reddit
Great comment, agreed
QwenRed@reddit
Jesus Christ how didn’t this click for me, years of freelancing and it’s been hell taking time off. I’m just going to stop telling anyone I’m going on holiday and instead say I’m booked on other projects.
Thank you 🙏
Drunkgummybear1@reddit
Honestly it's insane isn't it? I'm already working like a madman trying to get everything sorted for those 2 weeks off before I go. I'll let some people know so long as I know they're not going to add to that pile of 'urgent' work.
I am also one of those though that will have a quick check of my emails during travel / waiting time when I do go away though. Nothing religious like but sometimes the not knowing if anything has exploded is more anxiety inducing than taking a quick 5 minutes to look while I'm doing nothing else.
Hiraeth90@reddit
I have it noted on my email signature about my planned annual leave I have booked in for information for people.
Popular-Reply-3051@reddit
Is it a real project for the both of you in this conversation? Or is it your project you have a deadline for and they are just doing day to day admin or replying ad-hoc to queries?
If it's the latter you're not working together. You've got a project but they are just replying to queries from you. You should be able to ask the same queries of anyone else in that organisation. Hence no heads up.
I know you'll be thinking but the original person knew all the details! Well hopefully emails/notes/letters on file and a new person can just pick up where old one left off.
Also in my experience some companies want staff to appear interchangeable so will prohibit admin from mentioning time off in advance. As a professional administrator in the UK I have been asked to use we not I in communications and to use the main queries mailbox to reply to people or ask for replies to my emails to only be sent to the central email address. (Imho people prefer to build a relationship as humans are not robots)
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
It is THEIR project, and THEY are paying for it.
Simple-Pea-8852@reddit
You keep saying this, but why do you think the person on their OOO can't pick up any general queries? Have you asked them?
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
I did, but it seems the person I was referred to was there more to deflect things to others in case of something serious. For non- serious things, they weren’t too familiar with where we are at, and best wait it out.
pintsizedblonde2@reddit
Wow. You're making such a big deal that you are "C-Suite" (you're not) and THEY ARE THE CLIENT!
They are the important one in this relationship.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Wow.
No, I’m not.
Yes, we are.
The word Client doesn’t really fit here. As a joint partnership (which they instigated), we are just making an effort to help them deploy as soon as possible. How would that fit in your definition of a client?
Popular-Reply-3051@reddit
🤷♀️ what can I say? It is obviously not as important to them as you. In the circumstances, it is odd that they just went on holiday and did not say anything. It is definitely not normal in the UK to do that imho.
EvilOctopoda@reddit
My upcoming annual leave is always clearly shown at the end of my email signature. Nice little lifehack - if we've been exchanging emails, you've been informed (is highlighted in red text in email sig). I'd also mention it as leave is approaching too.
TheTheShark@reddit
If I was conversing with you so much, telling you about upcoming leave is something that would just come our naturally in conversation, so the fact that they didn’t say anything seems strange to me.
VernonPresident@reddit
You should be communicating with a manager, day-to-day work is for them the worry about.
Responsible-Drive627@reddit
No it's very ignorant
ContextElegant@reddit
To answer the actual question… no it’s not common. Yes it happens. Typically junior ish admin type people in large companies (don’t get me started on local government workers). I try to deal with the decision makers whenever possible to avoid this. Senior execs tend to respond with a one liner along the lines of “oops I forgot to tell you - it’s been crazy just before I left but Joe will be looking after this while I’m away”
Epiphone56@reddit
It's pretty normal if mid-task for an employee to hand over that task to another employee, and put them as their replacement contact when out of office. I'm not sure if you're expecting someone who works in another company to share their holiday calendar with you, or work on a task until it's complete, regardless of their planned annual leave, because that seems like an overreach.
Few_House_5201@reddit
I would always warn my important clients that I was going away and also anyone spoke to regularly.
My OOO would also always direct them to one of my team who could assist in my absence.
Remember we get a lot more holiday days in the UK than US so maybe it just feels like we’re away more.
pintsizedblonde2@reddit
Turns out this oh-so-unimportant "not C-Suite" person OP is complaining about IS the client. It is also just a contract that needs to be finalised and they'll have plenty of time before the deadline when they get back.
Sweet_Focus6377@reddit
This is what I'd consider the normal competent way to do it, staggered at the don't give a feck attitude of so many.
googooachu@reddit
I don’t think any British person would say they were “on vacay”.
This reads like a creative writing exercise
pintsizedblonde2@reddit
I've known loads of people over the years that say "vacay". Holibobs is far worse.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
That was EXACTLY the wording on the autoresponder.
toroferney@reddit
Was just about to say this. And if they actually did type the word vacay then better that you dint deal with them. It’s annual leave or just I’m out of the office .
Scienceboy7_uk@reddit
Sorry I couldn’t read all your edited post but you are right, if you’re dealing with someone on a project, and they know it’s important, they should tell you they have a holiday coming up and both parties should do their best to complete/agree before that time.
But once that holiday is on, it’s on. And as you say, you respect that.
I think a lot of people may have reacted to the high level perception because the post was long and complex and may not have given the clarity you may have wanted to give.
Agitated-Signal6378@reddit
I would say that there is a very unionised attitude in the UK workplace. Overtime and working to finish a task outside working hours is rare. I'm a South African living in the UK and I find the work culture odd.
I would prefer to work late to finish a task, but others did not like it. They felt I was trying to show them up. I was just trying to finish something on time. Weird.
They are also incredibly private, don't share their personal lives/ plans. I found it difficult to make friends in the office. So it might not occur to them to share their vacation info. They assume someone else will pick up the project.
But maybe other people have a different experience. I still find it strange.
ThenBlowUpTheWolves@reddit
My solicitor pissed off on holiday without telling me while handling my house purchase. No out of office email set up, no warning, she just left.
My son's teacher went on a school trip abroad with another class and nobody told me. I'd just informed the head my son wouldn't be coming back to school unless they could find a solution that meant he wouldn't be coming home in a heavily soiled nappy. He has PDA and is incontinent. The head didn't answer me either, I got an 'oh sorry, wasn't around' email from his teacher 2 weeks after deciding to home educate him.
I'd say it's both normal and incredibly irritating.
dedmonst@reddit
I always had a section in my signature block for “planned absences” - and it was highlighted in red to stand out from the rest.
Didn’t stop folks regularly losing their minds when I went on holiday. Even when I pointed out to them it had been there in my sig, they’d just say “well you can’t expect me to read that!”
Maybe this person has gone through something similar so now just doesn’t bother? Alternatively maybe they have so many folks who consider their ongoing conversation urgent and time-bound they have just given up trying not to upset people.
Or maybe they’re lazy and don’t care? All these are possible - I suggest you just politely ask the person (on a call not in an email that can be misconstrued) when they return. You could even suggest adding a planned absences section to their sig.
starwarskb@reddit
My word your getting a lot of weird responses here defending bad working practices. If I was in a back and forwards with someone on an issue I would absolutely say that I would be away for a certain period of time - even if just a day. That is how it is supposed to be done. However I would give the other person some grace in this situation as you don’t know how busy and stressed they were pre leave.
Simon_Says_2@reddit
No it’s not normal in the context you have described - actively working together towards a deadline or completion. It would only be polite and professional to explain you are going on leave and to discuss how that impacts timescales to either negotiate to pick up on return, or communicate who will do the work in your absence. What you have described is unprofessional and poor communication.
the_prodigy_an@reddit
Usually as a courtesy they inform about the upcoming OOO. But there is a catch here.
Goldf_sh4@reddit
It's normal here in the UK. Annual leave from work is important and protected. Workers are human beings and they deserve time to be human with their families, and a full break from work.
Paul2377@reddit
But no one is saying annual leave isn’t important. Of course it is and I always take mine. But it’s also courteous to let others know you’ll be off in advance when you’re working with them.
It’s so easy to say “I’m off after today and back on x. Just chat to x if you need anything otherwise speak to you when I’m back.”
MoghediensWeb@reddit
That’s what OOO automated messages are for?
Paul2377@reddit
Yeah but somebody has to contact you to see that. Generally it’s for people who might contact you out of the blue. Whereas people who you’re actively working with deserve to be told in advance in my opinion. That’s how I do things anyway!
one_pale_emu@reddit
Their ‘project’ can be completed in less than 24 hours and once this person returns from leave they will still have a week until the deadline.
Clearly the project doesn’t need anything right now, this person has probably booked their annual leave with the deadline date in mind. Either that or this project is not as important to them as it is to OP.
Given their attitude I would also be booking a holiday and not telling them as they seem needy AF and self-important.
I do not tell people when I’m away, just block my diary and put my ooo on. I don’t owe these people anything, other than a message to say I will deal with it when I return and where to direct urgent queries. Life is too short to be tied to your desk.
Paul2377@reddit
I still think if you’re communicating with a colleague on a daily basis in the run up to you taking annual leave it’s common courtesy just to explain you’ll be away.
That’s my view and how I do things anyway. People can keep repeating themselves but my view on this will remain unaltered. 😀
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
I appreciate your response in the sense that you seems to be among the few who understand that I'm not here complaining at all about someone taking some time off. That's not even close to the salient issue.
Unhappy_Clue701@reddit
No-one, including the OP, is suggesting that the holiday should not have been taken or that work should always take priority. The question is whether it’s normal to abruptly vanish without trace, effectively walking away in the middle of a conversation.
The answer, of course, is no it is absolutely not normal. It’s the height of rudeness and unprofessionalism. You might get away with it at a shitty call centre job, but I get the impression that this isn’t that sort of situation.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
I appreciate your response in the sense that you seems to be among the few who understand that I'm not here complaining at all about someone taking some time off. That's not even close to the salient issue.
Goldf_sh4@reddit
I have had solicitors do this when I'm part way through buying a house. I feel like it happens a lot. Usually they leave you with the name and contact details of someone who can help you in the meantime.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
shackled123@reddit
Interesting this just happened to me (brit) but from a German.
Got an email today 3 customers, myself and 2 colleagues.
I'm the only one working today one colleague is on medical leave, and the the other one a work trip to China.
I replied within the hour and every single person on the email had put of office back in 1 or 2 weeks
It was so funny 🤣
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
I have noticed a pattern that's similar but not quite to what we're talking about...
People, when they're going away, will queue up a whole bunch of emails and send them all out 5 minutes before they go away for 2 weeks, knowing full-well they won't be dealing with the replies till they're back. If that was done on a Friday, those emails could've gone out Wednesday or Thursday, but they purposefully didn't. Which actually makes sense.
shackled123@reddit
If we're sending an odd email every couple weeks I don't say anything personally.
But if we're messaging every couple days then I will just add it as something in a message just so your aware.
I also put my out of office on a day early and leave it on an extra day just so you can see there might be a delay in getting back but you know if it's urgent I'm still working so you can call.
smoulder9@reddit
I’d hate to work with some of the people who have responded here, who will just vanish and leave you in the lurch.
I work in a professional job here in the UK with colleagues in vastly different time zones. For any big projects, I inform the relevant coworkers a week in advance that I’ll be taking time off, and then follow up with a reminder 1-2 days before time time off too. If someone will be covering for me when I’m gone, I invite them to all of the project meetings in the week leading up to my time off, so they can get familiar with what’s going on and the other prop,e working on the project. I just assumed that everyone did this!
MrDibbsey@reddit
If we're working on a project but not a deliverable then I might not, I'll leave an alternative contact in my o.o.o, if it's a particular deliverable then I'll let people know as it's probably not something another team member will be able to pick up and complete easily.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
That's usually the case, the rudeness of just vanishing notwithstanding. Unfortunately, in this case, there's nobody woh can take it over, so we're paused for a couple of weeks.
MokausiLietuviu@reddit
A question I'd have is: what is the implication of a pause for a couple of weeks?
If nothing then yep, I've definitely been guilty of just booking last minute leave and running off on holiday.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there.
But the simple answer is it's probably not a big deal, except that it'll only have a week to get done and turned around by lawyers by July 1st. It'll get done, but the last-minute part of it is going to cost THEM some money, as this is all on their tab. Me trying to nudge it along for their benefit and them acting like this is going to cost them a lot more than me, which does make it a bit more bewildering.
ThinkAboutThatFor1Se@reddit
It’s going to cost ‘them’ as in the employee?
If it’s their employer it’s going to cost and their employer has approved the time then so what?
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Someone is going to have to pay the "last minute rush" lawyer bills that will be incurred. We have in-house lawyers managing our end. They do not. So there will be an incremental cost on their end if they want to wrap it up in time.
phleshlight@reddit
You simply don't undertake the differences between British and American working culture. We kwe6no companies nothing and when we're on holiday, we're on holiday.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Perhaps I don't understand either, because I'm neither. And here in Canada, we're simply not as rude. It has nothing to do with holiday entitlement or whatever. Around here, people use their turn signals. In other places, they don't. We consider it rude not to. Other places don't. I'm well-aware this is a big planet, and different places have different customs. That's all I was asking.
phleshlight@reddit
British people don't have blind loyalty to their employer. Give them time off qnd they'll be gone. There's mo better way.
Purple_Moon516@reddit
will someone die because of this during these two weeks?
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
I feel like I keep answering the same question over and over and over. If you are, check the EDIT.
furrycroissant@reddit
Ha! It's not rude. We're entitled to use our leave. It's clearly not that important
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
MichB1@reddit
Nope. You don't get to decide on cultural norms for the UK.
Who will die here, if you pause? FFS.
Strongly suspect you've been driving this poor person crazy. Just because you volunteer to martyr yourself to your job does not mean they should too.
The UK does this right. We suck. You are not your job.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. But to your specific point about me getting to decide cultural norms... are you for real? I came on here, a place to ask questions specifically from a culture I'm not entirely familiar with, to ask a simple innocent to question. And for that, I get accused of trying to impose my belief system on you? Really?
phleshlight@reddit
If they had their annual leave booked off and approved, they didn't just vanish. An auto-reply saying they were in leave is enough.
If it affected your work, that's a management problem, not the employee's.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. But to be clear, the person IS a manager... not just some employee, whatever that means to you. Cheers!
phleshlight@reddit
I appreciate where you're coming from and I'd be annoyed too. But annual leave is annual leave. This is a cultural difference from the US and that's about it tbh
SilyLavage@reddit
If you’re in the middle of something it is a bit rude to vanish with just an auto-reply to cover you.
Even if it’s not your responsibility to arrange cover, it’s courteous to give the person you’re working with some warning so they can prepare at their end.
Ok-Decision403@reddit
I'm so baffled by that this thread - surely, if you're back and forth on a daily basis, it's a very basic courtesy to let the person know you're going to be away from X to y? It's not like there's not an ongoing situation - yes, it can be wrapped up by the deadline on their return, but just basic politeness would be to close out the day before's correspondence with this information? Reddit is such an odd place sometimes...
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
This summarizes my thinking as well, but I seem to be taking a lot of crap for this opinion... and, like you, it's a bit puzzling. Whatever... it is what it is.
TheRealAladsto@reddit
I agree, if you know someone is working at crazy hours just to meet your regular working day, I think it’s just basic courtesy to say you’re going on leave for two weeks.
SilyLavage@reddit
I share in your bafflement.
The fact you may not need to do something from an administrative perspective doesn’t mean you shouldn’t.
Kayanne1990@reddit
But the deadline isn't for a month and you said it could be done in a day. If there are no consiquences to taking booked leave, why wouldn't they do it?
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
Boredpanda31@reddit
If I'm working closely with someone, like it sounds like you are, I always make them aware of any upcoming leave, especially if its more than a day or 2!
sjplep@reddit
In summary, Britain is a land of contrasts.
AlGunner@reddit
Not really enough context here, even with the edit. If you were dealing with a phone monkey in a call centre (no offence intended, I called myself that when I worked in a call centre, in fact I came up with the name to describe myself at the time) then absolutely I would expect something like this. If you were dealing with someone more senior then I would absolutely expect better communication, most likely just an alternative contact to hand it over to. It may be they ran out of time but would expect a handover with their manager for cover on any important. It may havre been as simple as they expected you to phone and had someone in place to take over.
One of the problems we've had in this country for years is less staff are expected to do the same amount of work as when there were more people. Also, low level staff are expected to cover a lot of the work more senior people used to do. You have probably but suffered a result of them.
Public-Guidance-9560@reddit
Well OP I'm a UK guy and UK employee and I wouldn't just leave you in the lurch and bugger off for two weeks. I'd let you know and make sure we've got someone else who can step in temporarily. At the very least a heads up to people you work with should be basic courtesy.
Ok_Astronaut_3235@reddit
Honestly they’re probably glad to be rid of you for a couple of weeks. I’d definitely do this if someone was annoying me. If I liked the person I’d let them know.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
Viva_Veracity1906@reddit
So you feel that you were entitled to being told his schedule? If he would be off for a medical appointment or surgery would you expect to be informed too? You’re not his manger who needs to shuffle work flow. You’re a distant colleague he occasionally hears from. Emailing back and forth sharing information recently doesn’t elevate that.
You were working on something not urgent, not due until a week after his return from holiday and clearly not terribly difficult. This isn’t a problem. It’s oh, he’s out, I’ll email him on the 24th.
So not sure what is causing this to be an issue for you, you’re feeling slighted somehow, it seems….over-invested? Did you feel like you all were mates or something?
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
sjplep@reddit
As others have said, depends on urgency and communicated deadlines.
If it's important and against a clock and they know this, it would be professional to hand over to someone or at least give them a heads-up so they can handle it while away.
If there's not a communicated deadline, then it can wait.
Was the deadline you are working to and its importance communicated to the other party? If so, then yes it would have been more professional for them to brief a colleague and hand over.
An observation from the 'other side' though: my experience when dealing with some American counterparties is a greater dependence on using named individuals rather than a more generic group email address (one company of my experience at some point in the past actually disabled 'reply to all' I think to encourage individual accountability, but it fell down pretty egregiously when people weren't available). I'm not sure if it was just my experience but this approach clearly has flaws of its own.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Cut/paste from an answer elsewhere:
I'm a C-level member of my company talking to someone just below a C-level manager on the other side. I'm talking directly to the guy over there because he's overseeing a group whose agreement and acknowledgment is necessary to finalize a contract between our firms. We had been going back and forth on this because we all need it wrapped up by end of month, and there's actually nobody else there who can take this over without me having to bring them up to speed.
I'm sure we can wrap it all up in the last week of the month, so I'm not concerned... just perturbed at how this came to such an abrupt pause.
---Cloudberry---@reddit
Well then, it's not really a problem. It just sounds like you've got sour grapes because they went on leave.
Over here, we have a culture of generally being positive about using your annual leave allowance - it's better for all of us that way. People who don't take their holiday or are anti-holiday are frowned upon (and honestly, usually considered losers).
I have an American aquaintance who regularly gripes about people at their work taking their leave (usually the Europeans because Americans never do). It's a horrible work culture/attitude to have.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
Ornery_Fig9414@reddit
Normal to vanish on vacation, not normal not to give notice especially to somebody they’re working closely on a project with! I’d be fuming lol
Internet-Dick-Joke@reddit
It depends on the person, their job role and the company. I've certainly had more than a few jobs where it would have been impossible for the to email every person who might have emailed me to let them know when I would be going on leave - I'm talking 100+ emails per day and being the primary point of contact for dozens of accounts - but there were people designated to handle that work (except for a company that was horrifically understaffed) and the appropriate contact details were always in my out of office.
Remember, you are not going to be the only person that these people are conversing with. Realistically, they probably have dozens if not a hundred or more people that might try to contact them when they are on leave. Contacting every single one of them to update them just wouldn't be feasible. And any properly run company will have an internal handover for someone to cover their work, which already takes time to set up.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Indeed... though not in this case. He's a manager one level below C-level management, and he and I had been directly working on this. As I said elsewhere, as close as we were to the finish line, we have till the end of the month to finalize it all... so I'm not too concerned. Just a little taken aback at the sudden unexpected pause, and who it came about.
Shadowholme@reddit
You're 'not too concerned about it'... And you take to Reddit to complain about it to the world. That *alone* speaks volumes about your attitude towards work and your colleagues.
Calling out a country's 'working culture' because (GASP) *three* people have disappeared on you - and two of them referred you to a colleague to continue - does not strike me as 'management behaviour'. It sounds like typical (for the internet) American entitlement, throwing a public tantrum when people don't do exactly what you want.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Rather than answer an awful lot of questions individually, many of which are very similar, I've made an EDIT to the original post. If you're still interested, the answer to what you're asking can be found there. Cheers!
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
He will have prioritised the stuff that’s more urgent, most Brits aren’t prepared to do unpaid overtime unnecessary.
Internet-Dick-Joke@reddit
If he's a manager and a higher ranking one at that, then he absolutely has a lot more people emailing him and wanting responses than just you.
Ultimately, it sounds like this project is probably a bigger percentage of your job than it is of his job, and a higher priority for you than it is for him. Unfortunately, that is just the reality of life, and it's a pain when something that's a priority for you isn't a priority for someone else, but there's not much that can be done there.
Fred776@reddit
I can't speak for everyone but I'd say that that was pretty poor behaviour. I am in the UK and mainly work with people in North America. I would definitely be telling people I am working closely with if I am going to be out for a few days.
gnu_andii@reddit
Same, especially if we were literally communicating the day before.
canada11235813@reddit (OP)
Thank you... noted.
RJUU91@reddit
At my place of work, I’ve known people to be very secretive about any holiday/annual leave they have booked.
I’ve always assumed that this is so they aren’t flooded with requests from others to get XYZ sorted before they’re unavailable for the next two weeks. Or maybe I’m just pessimistic?
RoyalConflict1@reddit
I often only tell the people I'm handing over to that I'm going away if I'm not prepared to check in while I'm gone. Otherwise like you say, you just get flooded with random urgent tasks that really aren't urgent
lockinber@reddit
No it is not normal. Most companies will have their own protocols but it normal for pre-booking leave. Exceptions, could paternity leave which is normally taken when the baby is born, bereavement,family emergency. This may leave to no notice being given. The UK company would not give you any reasons for the absence for privacy reasons.
Jayatthemoment@reddit
Totally normal, especially in summer. Yeah, it’s pretty irritating
AtLeastImLaughing@reddit
If they're part of an organisation and they've booked annual leave off then it's on the organisation to manage it and let you know what the resource is.
That being said if I'm in a meeting and someone said a deadline was due and I was booked off for it I'd flag it in the meeting.
That being said this person isn't bailing on you, they're taking their planned holiday.
Wasps_are_bastards@reddit
I would’ve expected them to warn you they’re on leave, not just bugger off. A lot of people in my company have an ‘upcoming notice of annual leave’ and the dates on their email signatures.
CroslandHill@reddit
That’s a great idea! It saves having to notify everyone individually.
Wasps_are_bastards@reddit
Yeah exactly, obviously out of office still goes on, but people are warned if you’re emailing back and forth.
Whateveremi@reddit
It could have been a last-minute leave.
Sometimes things happen, and we can take the time as leave. - Or just if time is out of whack, wasn't on mind when winding up (could have run out of time)
Now, this honestly depends on your position in the company. (as we have laws regarding our work hours/time/leave), so often, when we clock off, it is to the back of the mind - we have a switch off from work/home/holiday mode that is instant.
It's not intended to be rude; it is the norm.
Managers are not expected to chase you, you do not have to make sure x,y,z is done (that is the manager's role to ensure this is sorted/picked up) - This is common in jobs that is just a "job" that pays the wages.
When you have leave, the team will pick up your work and the managers. - An out-of-office email is most common, and some may include their expected annual leave or out-of-office hours in their signature.
I do stress - it is not always a reflection on how hard someone may work during work hours, just if a 9-5, at 5pm that person is out of the office and switching off (Vacy and all)
But, this is not always the mindset... Jobs that mean something are likely to attract employers who go above and beyond. - It is a bit of bad luck. You would not get a basic 9-5 employee (unless paid overtime) - getting up in the night to talk to clients.
Manager level - Maybe
However, I have always given some advance notice. (and out of office / who to contact during my leave)
It is right to be annoyed here (all this being said) - if so close to finishing.
I would have forwarded (copied you in the email) it to the coworker and asked them to finish up.
So, to sum it up, depends on the individual.
yourefunny@reddit
Pretty common in my experience. Will be emailing a client and then someone else in the organisation just takes over, explaining their colleague is away for a few days. Doesn't change anything, really. Most people in an office with the same role can continue another colleague's work.
ChallengingKumquat@reddit
In the course of their job, they may have to deal with a lot of people, in which case they're not gonna tell everyone when they're going away. If there's a lot of dealing with one person, then yes it's a courtesy to tell that person you'll soon be on holiday, but not a requirement.
Sure, it's annoying to be on the receiving end of someone suddenly going on holiday and you getting an autoreply, but that's the price we pay for having a decent work-life balance.
conrat4567@reddit
It depends, most of the time, someone covers. For example, when I am on holiday, my helpdesk system automatically farms out my tickets to other techs if I get a reply while I am away.
I am not obliged to tell anyone, other than my place of work, when I am on annual leave. However I still would in a scenario like this and provide alternative contact details.
Combat_Orca@reddit
Are you American? If so then we don’t have your work culture, I’d still tell someone I’m working with im going on holiday but I’m not gonna let work get in the way of that. I doubt there’s much work that can’t wait 2 weeks.
MrsDoylesTeabags@reddit
If this is an intercompany issue, surely it's something you can raise internally rather than asking strangers on the Internet?
Just like anywhere else in the world, UK private sector companies will have different policies in place to cover absences. We're not a monolith.
If the process doesn't work for you, then you need to have a conversation and set a different process in place
giantthanks@reddit
It's very normal. I've never known it any other way. It's the same when they move jobs, retire or are sick or injured.
However the automated out of office reply ought to give you the contact details of someone briefed in continuing their workloads so you can still continue without too much disruption.
I'd imagine that if there was no-one to take over, that they would indeed tell you of the impending break from work as a basic courtesy.
People are often forced to use up their holiday allocation, and this is often quite last minute, and everything can be such a rush that they might not have had the chance to give you the heads up.
TheRealJetlag@reddit
If I were right in the middle (or nearing the end) of something with someone that had any chance of not being wound up by the time I was due to leave for my holiday, I would have said something, probably many times.
If it's something that I felt didn't really need me or could be handled by a colleague.... having typed that out, I still think I would have said something unless I thought it would have garnered a "who the hell cares that YOU are going on holiday" type reaction.
PerfectRug@reddit
I definitely would have let you know in advance that I was going to be leaving. When I was in my last job I would always put advance notice of upcoming annual leave in my email signature from about 2 weeks in advance, and warn anyone I was working with directly at least a week in advance. I also always had to do a “handover” if I was going to be away for more than a few days, so one of my colleagues would pick up anything I was working on, and deal with anyone who might be expecting to hear from me. I’m self employed now so I never flipping go on holiday anymore 😂
TheSecretIsMarmite@reddit
I will often put a note on my email signature with advanced notice of leave but no more than a week beforehand and only if I'm going to be gone for a couple of weeks, although it is absolutely not a requirement by my employer. My out of office also says who to contact in my absence.
The use of the word "Vacay" here is frankly the most egregious thing.
6768191639@reddit
Your emergency is not my emergency
dont_thr0w_me_away_@reddit
ALL THE TIME. I moved to the UK for grad school and it was a pain getting phones and internet set up, and my dissertation supervisor went on holiday twice during the dissertation process. I'm happy for them getting so much holiday time but people just disappear
Kayanne1990@reddit
It's a BIT ill mannered to not give someone a heads up but if there are no real consequences, it's not that unusual.
The vitriol in this sub is weird. Bros is literally just asking a question.
Asleep_Practice_9630@reddit
Awww. You are learning you Amerivans get exploited while Europeans get 6 week vacations and aren't totally enslaved to the employer. How cute!!!
Marzipan_civil@reddit
Perhaps a shared holiday calendar for projects so you can all see when people are away would be useful. I'd say it's not a cultural thing but it can be quite normal to take a day off and forget to mention it to other colleagues, just put an out of office on or somebody will say "oh John's away this week, didn't he mention it?"
Sweet_Focus6377@reddit
That is not normal practice and is completely unprofessional. At the minimum, there should be giving you advanced notice and the name and contact details of the person covering them during their holiday. I'd be escalating that situation up both their and your own company.
When they are a customer or partner I would be giving notice that the project will be onhold delayed by x (two) weeks.
If they are supplier, I'd be advising our management to be triggered any cost of delays clauses in the contract.
Feeling-Paint-2196@reddit
Sounds like this is something that's a priority for you but not really enough to register in their pre holiday planning for them.
ukslim@reddit
Typically you'd mention your upcoming holidays during the daily standup.
If you're working closely with this person, you're attending standup. Right? Right?
overduesum@reddit
Visions of that out of office getting switched on with LCD Sound system blaring in the dudes ears with a smile and Vicky getting done to the screen 😄
SingerFirm1090@reddit
In all honesty, the only 'requirement' in the UK is to arrange annual leave with your employer and there is rarely this nonsense of having leave cancelled by the boss at short notice.
Many people in the UK have five or six weeks holiday per year.
That said, I think it's a bit impolite (at best, unprofessional at worst) not to inform people you are dealing with not to forewarn them or give them a proper contact in your absence.
Thorazine_Chaser@reddit
The way you have described it sounds uncommon. When people are working on a project together and are aware of deadlines then normally people would make their collaborators aware of out of office situations.
If however you are just a sale or a supplier it’s possible. Sometimes the importance of a deal to one party can be so much more than the other that you aren’t even an afterthought.
do_you_realise@reddit
I would say perhaps this is a cultural difference between UK and Canada? Or maybe your expectations are too high.
If it's not urgent, and there is time after the holiday to finish the task before the deadline, then if this was me I'd probably have done a quick calculation in my head and then effectively the OOH response is a very efficient way of telling everyone you're on leave for a few days. It's achieving exactly the same thing as the in-person heads up, but much more efficient, as I don't have to think of who might possibly email me over the next X days/weeks - I can just set it once 🤷♂️
I wouldn't necessarily be thinking "let's get this thing done ASAP at all costs!!!" , I'd probably have been thinking, "let's get this done before the deadline with a couple of days leeway" prioritised against all my other tasks, or perhaps things with shorter deadlines.
Xaphios@reddit
If I'm in the middle of a back and forth I'd definitely add on my last email of the day "FYI, I'll be away until the 23rd so no rush on your end to get back to me. Let's pick this up when I'm back" or similar depending on who I'm talking to.
I'm not massively surprised when other people don't do that though unless it's an urgent issue.
RaggamuffinTW8@reddit
If I were working on a project with someone, whether internal or external, I'd let them know that I had imminent holiday leave booked. It's only polite.
Dumuzzid@reddit
I really thought this was about Brits going on vacation and vanishing, never to be seen again. That actually happens too. A senior manager in my company went on a vacation to Kenya, where he hooked up with a local lady and never returned. He had a wife and children in the UK too, but he was like fuck it, I'm never going back. Must say I contemplated it a couple of times myself when facing the daunting task of boarding a plane in some sunny, exotic locale to return to a rainy, cold and windswept island.
Known_Wear7301@reddit
I'm on leave today... I didn't inform my customers. I have my out of office on. My emails are on auto forward. Either the team with sort the emails today or I will tomorrow.
As long as their emails are going to a colleague or manager to be dealt with in their absence then what's the issue.
BritinOccitanie@reddit
The time difference works both ways! When I was working with someone across the pond it was frustrating for me at times to have to wait for them to come online. As for holidays... no, if it's a planned vacation of a week or more I'd normally hand over to another colleague a few days or so before I left, I'd introduce them to the client and ensure my colleague had the latest list of actions and current status. In fact running up to the holiday seasons it was an office wide task to ensure cover and planned hols were managed well in advance. If it was an unplanned day off or sick day I'd probably email my client with that info ASAP.
Status_Accident_2819@reddit
Maybe they had to take compassionate and just went with "vacay" because they don't want to deal with questions about it?
Primary_Choice3351@reddit
Home life & mental health is always more important than work for me. If something unexpected happens or I need a break, before I'm broken, then I'll be off. I'm sure as heck not giving everyone a heads up, only for them to decide to pile extra crap one me just before I'm off.
The Out of office message is left on. There are others in the company who can answer questions if needed. I always say "what if I'm run over by a bus tomorrow?" The world will find a way of getting by without me. Anyway , life's too short to worry about artificially imposed deadlines.
Realistic-River-1941@reddit
Yes, it's normal.
Comcernedthrowaway@reddit
Just contact their immediate manager and ask who’s covering them during their absence and have they done a full handover for the outstanding tasks on the very important and time sensitive project that they were committed to.
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
They might be on sick leave, when I took some time off for mental health reasons I didn’t know in advance to warn others and I certainly didn’t put the reason in my out of office reply!
NeekaNou@reddit
I would imagine it is planned, they just didn’t tell you.
I have only just started putting my upcoming annual leave on my signature to warn people. My department know because we work together but the rest of the business wouldn’t have known before I started doing this.
Although there are some instances it wouldn’t be planned and possibly accepted. For example a bereavement.
ElectronicDingo836@reddit
Americans live to Work while Brits work to live
weirdbean@reddit
I’d agree with those pointing out that as soon as someone says they’re going on annual leave, suddenly you get a shit load of requests to complete things before you go.
I personally prioritise my own workload and know when deadlines are etc so don’t need other people panic requesting things before my holiday.
From what you copy/pasted multiple times, it’s not something that needs to be completed right now and there is time to reach the deadline when this person returns, so there was no need to give you a heads up outside of the out of office.
Additionally, while you see this as ‘real time back and forth’ to reach a deadline, you may to them be coming off as intense and irritating. If I have to have more than 3 emails about the same thing with a colleague in one day I’m either picking up the phone to sort it out there and then or ignoring them for a few hours so I can actually get some work done.
ambergriswoldo@reddit
In a low paying job yeah it’s totally normal - we aren’t paid enough to care. Higher paying jobs then it’s not really acceptable that they don’t have a colleague covering their emails and continuing any work while they’re gone.
callardo@reddit
They mostly likely don’t care about the job. I’ve seen it a lot where the upper management have introduced new policies or cut backs, maybe just not listening to needing more staff it could be a number of reasons but it leads to the same “I am just going to do what’s asked of me” they are making the employees life difficult so ….. actually time for me to go on holiday someone else can finish this off
qsnoodles@reddit
No offense—you’re not as important to their business as you think you are. If you were, they would’ve let you know. Next question.
pompokopouch@reddit
I rarely book holiday far advance. Sometimes it's a week before I go.
AnxiousAppointment70@reddit
Doesn't sound usual to me.
JohnCasey3306@reddit
Sounds like the project manager or resource manager dropped the ball on this one — that's their responsibility.
I'm booking my holiday months in advance and if a deadline crops up in the interim that's not a me problem.
kachuru@reddit
I work for an agency and we try to make sure that if someone is about to go on holiday they let their team and the relevant client(s) know. "I'm going to be off on Monday, be back Tuesday" or, "I'm on holiday for two weeks next month, if my work's not wrapped up I'll hand it over to Alice." and then "As previously mentioned, I'm on holiday for two weeks from next week. All my work will be done by then but Alice is up to speed so if anything comes up she can handle it." That doesn't stop some people from disappearing without making sure everyone knows. I don't know what goes on in those people's heads because you'd think it would be common courtesy. Only thing I do know is that someone once told me, "I forgot I was on holiday"
IAmLaureline@reddit
I think it's odd.
I would let someone know if I was working closely with them. Seems normal courtesy. I put my out of office on at least half a day before I go away for any length of time.
Snap-Crackle-Pot@reddit
Brits don’t go “on vacay” we go on holiday. We’re also well mannered generally. Something smells funny! I wouldn’t try and figure it out, you’ll just wind yourself up and take it out on others. I suggest you stick a pin in it until they come back. As we say round here, “There’s nowt queer as folk”. Translation: there’s nothing stranger than people themselves. Only they know
Cosmicshimmer@reddit
I’d have given you name and contact details for who ever was covering my work. It’s not uncommon though to get all that on the out of office reply.
Poo_Poo_La_Foo@reddit
I wouldn't give notice to whoever random people I'm emailing, no. Would my employer be up to date? Yes. Would you OOO contain details of who to speak with in my absence? Yes.
I'm not sure what your business is that there is a single point of failure for everything to break down, but either you or the client might need to build in some failsafes.
shiveryslinky@reddit
I put an "advance notice of leave" in my email footer, but I only go out of my way to let clients know, not colleagues.
SuperLanna@reddit
I usually tell even now that I'm freelance and well in advance, but I remember once, when I was still an employee, I was told off by a colleague of mine because " they might want you to cancel your time off". 😑
lostandfawnd@reddit
It's not normal to expect a response from someone while they aren't in work.
Urgent? There will be a person noted in the auto-email
rmvandink@reddit
The professional courtesy would be to let the other person know you have a holiday coming in advance.
The really professional thing would be for you to have colleagues you hand over all your various tasks to and specify who to contact for what in your out-of-office notifications, so they can help people in your absence.
RaspberryFrequent382@reddit
I agree this does sound inconsiderate, personally I would give someone in this situation a heads up in my last communication with them: earlier if I anticipated it may cause a problem so we could plan around it. I don’t think Brits are inconsiderate as a rule though, so I think it’s likely to be poor communication… perhaps they simply forgot to let you know.
Maybe next time you start a project with people from the uk you can ask the important people whether they have any annual leave coming up that might get in the way? This wouldn’t be considered rude and might lead to a nice conversation about where they are travelling to. Holidays are our second favourite conversation behind the weather. Oh and what the weather was like while on holiday.
boroxine@reddit
If you're in the middle of something and it's very sudden, my guess would be a burnout situation. Maybe that's just because I fairly suddenly recently took a week as I was burnt out though 😂
Cpt_TomMoores_jacuzi@reddit
Well, I am a Brit and I can honestly say, it is absolutely not acceptable and incredibly rude. Now, I work as a therapist for the NHS so, totally different job and field etc so, maybe that matters. But, i would always tell my clients WELL in advance and would never dream of disappearing. Even if I didn't work in that field though, my own sense of decency would prevent me from doing that.
I might cop some shit for this but, were they Gen Z by any chance? 😂
Lower-Main2538@reddit
In the UK for sure we are starting to ensure we have boundaries. Many people have been off work with burn out and stress over the years. Companies tend to look after staff a bit better over here nowadays.
Paul2377@reddit
I’m in the UK and I would always tell someone I was going on leave ahead of time. I also have a handover with a colleague so they’re aware of everything I’m working on - just in case anything urgent crops up when I’m off.
I also add my days off in my outlook calendar well in advance so if anyone’s planning a meeting with me or just wants to see my availability ahead of time they’ll see when I’m on leave.
Comprehensive-Rub-62@reddit
I was a mortgage broker who spoke to like 20 clients a day im sure i didnt tell all of them i was planning a holiday. When it came up or in convo or felt relevant natural i did, some you just dont i guess you get carried away with what your doing work wise not thinking about holiday. Id usually mention it to people as a helpful way of making them hurry up with getting their docs in. Usually you have cover while your off anyways the awol email should say who it is
ExpectedDickbuttGotD@reddit
It's very weird. I feel a good number of the other responses here are misleading. They seem to be trying to score points with "we're not chained to our desks like yanks" rather than just saying: it's very weird. (There is absolutely a difference in work culture, but it doesn't extend to this.)
unnecessaryaussie83@reddit
Do they directly report to you? Maybe they did tell their boss with the expectation they’ll tell you.
WxmRed1864@reddit
It depends upon the nature and the quality of the relationship between the two of you, and how valued by their employer the person with whom you're corresponding feels. It's unprofessional and selfish, certainly, but maybe they don't give a fuck.
SocieteRoyale@reddit
its just a job, I don't reply to stuff from work when am on my annual leave, don't let work consume your life
chockychockster@reddit
If the person hates their job and their leadership then yeah I could imagine they'd just leave without a word. Or if they're just ignorant of the impact their going away will have, or they're a sociopath.
FWIW I work with people in Pacific Time every day and we make it work. They take meetings at their 8AM, sometimes earlier, and I take them at my 7PM, sometimes later. We get 4-5 hours a day. I'd rather have normal hours but it's otherwise OK.
WordsUnthought@reddit
Being completely uncontactable and not engaged with work whilst on leave - normal, healthy, good.
Not giving notice of upcoming leave to people you're engaged in active/ongoing work with and whom it will affect is not normal, and in my book is unprofessional and unacceptable.
If I catch my team members replying to emails or working when they're on A/L I'm going to tell them to log off and take their time off properly, but if I find out while they're off that someone they're working with had no idea they were going and didn't have contingencies or holdovers sorted, they're getting an uncomfortable meeting when they're back.
FinneyontheWing@reddit
It's pretty bad form (and a bit odd) that they didn't warn you that they were going away and/or point you in the direction of someone who could help while they are. Is that on the out of office?
However, taking leave on short notice is an important employee right, so the actual absence can't be sniffed at.
Lastly, irrelevant to your issue and not to be taken seriously or xenophobically, while they may work in Britain, the use of 'on vacay' is a dead giveaway that they are probably new to the islands and haven't had that sort of abomination mangled out of them yet.
Good luck with the work. If you need a copywriter give me a shout.
limey91@reddit
Yeah if on a project i'd let people know. However, its not uncommon for that to only be a couple of days notice, or even the day before. Things come up, people take leave. Just have to try and be flexible.
Sad_Introduction8995@reddit
In my experience, it’s entirely possible to have someone supposedly covering for your holiday, but when it comes down to it, they do bugger all while you’re gone and it’s all just waiting for you when you come back.
Sad_Introduction8995@reddit
In my experience, it’s entirely possible to have someone supposedly covering for your holiday, but when it comes down to it, they do bugger all while you’re gone and it’s all just waiting for you when you come back.
TrifectaOfSquish@reddit
The only person that they are required to tell is their employer, their out of office message should have details on who to contact in their absence if your lucky
MJsThriller@reddit
Sounds like a dick tbh. Common courtesy to at least say "I'll be off for a couple of weeks from.x til y". Presumably they would have had some kind of handover with whoever they have covering for them while out of the office. If they were in my team and hadn't done either of these, but especially the latter, I'd be concerned about their lack of basic professionalism
OddPerspective9833@reddit
It's unprofessional not to get things in order and put a contingency plan in place for your AL, even if it's just briefing a colleague on what's outstanding
nasu1917a@reddit
Happens all the time. And they get really pissy when you point out the obvious how it was inconsiderate to you. Can you ask to have access to their calendar so you at least know for next time?
blackleydynamo@reddit
It's not unheard of, but it would be regarded as discourteous if you've been actively engaging with someone on a piece of work right up to their last day and they don't at least mention it.
If I've got unfinished business on a project with someone I'll tell them I'm going away, and give them a contact in my absence if I can. But as there are 1600 people in my organisation, everyone else gets the Out of Office 😂
Balseraph666@reddit
As long as the employer knows when they have booked a holiday, and relevant time off, it's legally okay to just take off. It is, however, still a bit rude to not inform someone they are in a back and forth with for work, important clients and similar when they won't be available in advance to some degree, even if they don't say why or what they are doing.
This_Rom_Bites@reddit
In my workplace, we list upcoming a/l in the email signature block and that's as much warning as we generally need to give outside the immediate team.
If we're in the middle of a project like you're describing, though, and working with someone outside the team so closely, common courtesy would dictate that we at least send a one-liner by way of a heads-up.
The only times I can think of someone just disappearing and only leaving a vague out-of-office, it's been unplanned absence.
Spottyjamie@reddit
When i wasnt paid much id rarely give a heads up
Now i do though
I_waz_Perce@reddit
I'm in meetings with different timezones daily, and I'd never disappear mid project without giving everyone a heads up. That's just rude 😒
asymmetricears@reddit
Yeah if something like that was happening I'd mention we need to get it done before a certain date, as that will be my last date before taking annual leave. If that wasn't possible, I'd agree someone to take things over and put you into contact with them and have them briefed.
In this case I'd go to their line manager and say you were working with them and they have left without handing over, and ask who's the best person to work with for completing it.
Overall_Coyote_421@reddit
I'm on holiday motherfucker.
Out of office set, cya.
Worry about work shit in a couple weeks.
SlinkyBits@reddit
sounds like someone who owns a place who deals with you. and they dont think about the slaves around them.......
chartupdate@reddit
Not a cultural thing, just phenomenally unprofessional. Reconsider your association with these people.
Unusual-Thing-7149@reddit
Even if your time is flexible it's just courted and good business practice to tell someone your going to be away if you've been engaged with them over days
Status-Mousse5700@reddit
First of all I was thinking just plain rude but I guess unprofessional is the correct description
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