The USB-C dream is dead and it’s too late to revive it
Posted by BrightCandle@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 111 comments
Posted by BrightCandle@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 111 comments
SNad2020@reddit
Why don’t they come up with colours for differentiation for example black could be charging only and blue could be 10gbps and red could be usb 4
mrheosuper@reddit
Because the Chinese dont want to respect that.
vVvRain@reddit
What do you mean?
CentralLimitQueerem@reddit
*vaguely gestures, sinophobicly*
Strazdas1@reddit
not sinophobia (thats not a real thing btw), but the fact that chinese companies all create their own colour code standards for the cables, ignoring the official one.
Redditributor@reddit
People aren't racist against the orientals?
Strazdas1@reddit
People can be racist towards ethnicities in that region (orientals itself is considered a racist word btw). Racism is not the same as phobia.
Redditributor@reddit
It's not that different than homophobia no?
Strazdas1@reddit
That is often misused term as well.
Redditributor@reddit
Yeah but you know what people mean
hollow_bridge@reddit
he's not wrong exactly, though it's more the businesses than china specifically.
ReagenLamborghini@reddit
That’s already a thing with USB-A
https://bloggerpilot.com/en/usb-color-codes/
waitmarks@reddit
Those are informal color codes and not part of the standard.
Strazdas1@reddit
when 90% of your standard is "optional" then everything is informal.
Any_Fox5126@reddit
test
Verite_Rendition@reddit
Per the spec, there's no such thing as a charging-only cable. The min-spec is a cable that carries USB High Speed (2.0) data and up to 60 Watts of power (12v@5a). This being part of what makes it universal: you'll always get some power and data connectivity.
The only thing that higher-end cables do is offer 240W (48v@5a) of power, and up to 80Gbps of data in each direction.
Mind you, the latter are all labeled. The USB-IF has specific branding requirements for all of this stuff.
hollow_bridge@reddit
people like being able to pick colors for themselves, businesses are happy to provide that option because it really doesn't cost anything.
Top3879@reddit
I'd say the opposite. I have exactly one pair of headphones that still has micro USB. Every other device has USB C now, even my fucking flashlight.
I don't care if I sometimes don't get perfect speeds. As long as every device is charged with the same connector I am happy.
TemuPacemaker@reddit
Yes. I keep saying this too every time someone starts bitching about USB-C.
It's not perfect, but generally works. I can charge my phone, headphones or laptop with a single charger. I can use a $3 cable from Aliexpress to charge at 100W or transfer data. Is it 20 or 40gbps? I don't know or really care most of the time. Then I can use a Thunderbolt cable with a dock or monitor.
I just haven't encountered this "nightmare".
Redditributor@reddit
This seems dishonest. Manufacturers don't have to make clear what the designed behavior is for anything
salartarium@reddit
I ran into a USB 3.0 Micro B cable the other day. It uses a different connector than the older micro cables.
kaden-99@reddit
One bad thing about it is that some cheaper appliances have Type-C connectors but they don't actually charge with a proper Type-C to Type-C cables and only charge with Type-A to Type-C cables. those are very annoying and as a result i have two cables on my desk instead of one but I guess that's not the fault of USB-IF.
ThatOnePerson@reddit
It's a result of C to C cables being reversible, having the same plug on both ends. You want to differentiate between a charger and not. You don't want your phone to try and charge a power bank.
Shadow647@reddit
that's not an issue with proper engineering - my iPhone never tries charging my Anker power bank. With C to C cable, ofc.
ThatOnePerson@reddit
Yeah that's what I mean: the specs are designed to prevent that, but the cheap devices don't identify as something that gets the charge, so the c to c cables won't charge them.
ltcdata@reddit
Thats true. And even some devices, if i plug them into my samsung qc charger, or samsung pd charger, flicker but don't charge. Grab an old brick "5v 1a" plug them, charges right away.
hollow_bridge@reddit
Unfortunately that's not the case, I have a bunch of modern low-end usb-c devices, they charge by the same cables, but they can't use modern usb-c chargers for some reason. I've been noticing the issue more and more lately.
gdnws@reddit
They're probably missing the 5.1k resistors on the cc pins internally. I've found that the usb c ports on newer higher power chargers won't supply any power if they don't see anything on the cc pins which those resistors provide. If you have a charger that has mixed a and c ports, usually using an a to c cable will let you charge those devices.
Alive_Worth_2032@reddit
Some chargers that come with devices are also only able to supply PD power of one voltage. Personally I have come across two laptop chargers that came with the devices that worked that way.
I bet they straight up took a 19V laptop adapter and gave it a USB connector and some controller chip.
gdnws@reddit
It is generous to think that there is a controller chip in there. I've seen some mini pc power supplies where all they have done is lopped off the barrel connector and put a usb c end in its place. 12, 19 or 20 volts at the connector at all times. I don't know why they do that; usb c connectors are more expensive than barrel jacks but I have seen fewer of those lately so hopefully the moment of madness has passed or is passing.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
That is... extremely dangerous. A device with a female USB-C port is not guaranteed to tolerate anything other than 5V.
gdnws@reddit
Yep. I passed on any of the mini pcs that have had a power supply like that for the simple reason that I did not want a brick around the house that could fry a connected component if I were to use it a a standard usb c charger.
TemuPacemaker@reddit
It probably won't brick anything.
My Chuwi laptop is like that. It has a real PD port, but the charger they provided is 12V USB-C power supply that is not PD, and only works in their special USB-C port.
However it's implemented, it doesn't blow up any other ports/devices. I used it to slowly charge a phone at 5V too.
gdnws@reddit
It probably won't brick anything sure but I would rather not have a device that disregards the spec so flagrantly. When I did a fairly cursory search, a significant majority of voltage regulators I looked at were rated 16v on the input side. At the same time there were a bunch that were only 6v rated.
If it did actually charge a phone at 5v then it at least had the ability to supply at least that lower voltage. The ones I'm talking about I had only a passive breakout board plugged in and tested it with a multi meter at 12v on the output.
hollow_bridge@reddit
Huh, that's interesting, thanks for the til.
Yes, I've found this to be true (at least most of the time, I should test more)
TemuPacemaker@reddit
Of course that's possible if you have non-compliant devices, but nothing USB-IF can do about that.
PrimergyF@reddit
still annoyed that my phone charger cant charge my notebook
Y0tsuya@reddit
Yes the universal connector is the important part. I can deal with the baseline speed and charging speed.
And TBH I was fine with micro USB too.
Green_Struggle_1815@reddit
previous usb standards had similar issue when it comes to requesting power. at the end of the day it works~
Some-Following-392@reddit
Exactly
CoyoteSmall6542@reddit
This total BULLSHIT, how about we plug everything into our ass and woof down cheese until the smell matches the situation !!! Im now gonna go hang myself with the 1000ft of 3ft cables i own using every goddamn connector these turds have forced on me in the last 25 years.
ueb_@reddit
It is probably dead for US but not for EU.
RobsterCrawSoup@reddit
We got a universal connector and physics reminded us that signal integrity and resistance both get worse with greater distance. Want a thin flexible cable that can charge your laptop? enjoy USB2.0 data throughput. Want a long thin cable that can do fast data transfer? Forget about USB-PD. Want 100W+ and USB4 data speeds? Congratulations, you have a 1 meter cable that is stiff and thick. Ok, so we just need a standard for marking the cables by their power and data capacity. We'll never have no-compromise copper cables, but if we just label the cables, that will give us the information we need to not have to do the data-or-power guessing game we do with all our random USB-C cables. USB-C, even with the current state of mild confusion and some cheap devices not being made to comply with the standard so they can't be charged with power supplies that can do more than 5V, is still a massive improvement over the dark ages of proprietary power connectors and a hundred different combinations of barrel jacks voltage and current ratings.
Strazdas1@reddit
no! i want a cable that stays plugged in and wont move around at slightest tremble.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Especially pressing with aging devices.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I can deal with chonker cabling if that chungus delivers both data and juice with alacrity and is durable.
RobsterCrawSoup@reddit
And that is how I feel about a cable, if I need it for a USB4 or Thunderbolt dock, but not about a cable that I use to charge my phone or laptop on the go (where I don't need data at all). It makes sense to have different cables for different needs when the compromises that would be required for every USB-C cable to be capable of USB4 data and 240W USB-PD just aren't practical. In addition to them being shorter, stiffer, and heavier, they are also much more expensive.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Seperate USB Big Chungus into its own discrete, legally protected standard?
Kyrond@reddit
Isnt that just Thunderbolt cable?
Btw it can be legally protected as much as possible, but somewhere in the world, a random factory will make an illegal cheap copy. Manufacturer of the cable will always matter.
zakats@reddit
My first reaction was 'pft, bullshit, I remember the before times very well and this is exponentially better than ~30-pins and micro USB' but...
-
The clickbait title really detracts from what is otherwise a very valid point, USB-C standards are a mess.
TemuPacemaker@reddit
Nah the whole article is extremely exaggerated.
Strazdas1@reddit
No, it doesnt. Most USB-C devices will not charge with that charger. And that is one of the problems.
TwilightOmen@reddit
Could you explain that? This is literally something I have never ran into...
Strazdas1@reddit
If the device is missing the 5.1k resistors on the cc pins internally, most charges willnot negotiate charging and wont work at all. And there is a lot of devices cheaping out on these resistors then bundling some crap charger that will ignore specs and charge anyway, but be unusable for other devices because it can only function in one mode.
TemuPacemaker@reddit
Right ok, it could happen with weird non-compliant devices 🤷♀️
TwilightOmen@reddit
Well, I do not know what to tell you. My main charger charges... well, everything. Laptop, cellphones, headphones, tablet, heck, my portable fan for the summer and snicker eh, a friend's bellesa "personal device" let's put it that way. My phone charger does all except the last two, which have not been tested.
I am unsure what kind of devices would be affected, honestly. I literally never have ever had any issue even remotely similar to what you have described. I use this charger and the same cables for, well, for years at least, I honestly cannot remember when I had to buy any.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, my electric toothbrush also works on the main charger.
second_health@reddit
This is becoming less of a problem, even the $10 cat toys I buy on Amazon now charge via USB-C / USB-C.
That wasn’t the case a few years ago, lots of USB-C / USB-A shenanigans because they simply took existing designs and replaced microUSB port with USB-C port without the 5 cent resistors added.
TemuPacemaker@reddit
It does. I obviously can't speak for every non-compliant piece of crap in the world, but the article asks about my gadgets. I can use that one charger to charge all USB-C devices that I have.
Here's an incomplete list: Samsung buds case, PolyCom earbuds case, Jabra headset, two different powerbanks, old Chinese tablet, slightly less old Chinese laptop, two different gens of X1 ThinkPad, Samung Note9 and S22 Ultra.
What makes you say it doesn't work?
fuettli@reddit
Yes it does, it charges literally every USB-C device that is in my house, which is quite a few.
floof_attack@reddit
And it is not the first time that USB standards have been a mess but as you said and I agree that what we do have now is so much better than what we had in the past.
Proprietary connectors mixed in with a host of USB form factors as well as Apple marching to their own drum was just ugh.
Reading about the issues that surround UBB-C's standards makes it sound so much worse than the practical usage that for me, not a tech neophyte, and I'm guessing the majority of people as well experience. As someone who has not followed USB's development I'm guessing they are falling into the standards trap: https://xkcd.com/927/
Hopefully they can clean things up as time goes on but saying that USB-C is some sort of doomed connection does not ring true.
zakats@reddit
Xkcd is the shit
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
I didn't want to change the clickbait title and I don't think we really should. Alas the article makes a number of solid points but the title is just gore unfortunately.
zakats@reddit
You did the right thing, this is on Android authority.
Lighthouse_seek@reddit
The one physical connector dream defining won though. Almost every device I have uses USB c.
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
We really need the ports to show what they are capable of and that should not be optional! I have found determining port capabilities a nightmare on laptops, its far too common for them to just not properly specify what the ports are capable of and its a guessing game as to whether what you want to do will work.
We badly need this mess of a standard cleaning up for it to deliver its promise, I guess cross fingers for USB5 to stop with the optional components or require markings/colours for capabilities.
Leviathan_Dev@reddit
Cables should also specify what they support in the flat headers
TemuPacemaker@reddit
USB-IF has you covered.
https://i.imgur.com/4v29se5.jpeg
Leviathan_Dev@reddit
What I'm saying is every USB cable should be required to include the corresponding badge on the header, make it obvious what the cable does and doesn't support
TemuPacemaker@reddit
I know. That's what that is. Literally says "cable/port logo example" there.
Leviathan_Dev@reddit
except no one uses them
TemuPacemaker@reddit
USB-IF requires those on certified cables. If you buy random crap from aliexpress, nothing can force those vendors to follow the labeling requirements, or any other specs for that matter.
Verite_Rendition@reddit
And that part sucks. But nothing short of government regulation can force everyone to use those logos.
Mind you, even if we did have that kind of regulation, Ali Express would still be chock-full of non-compliant stuff that people readily buy anyhow.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
That regulation exists in almost every country in the world, and is called Trademark.
It would've been totally possible, at the outset, for the USB consortium to register a trademark on the physical appearance of the port/connector (oval of such-and-such dimensions), automatically grant trademark licensing to any implementation that followed the spec and labeling guidelines, and then sue the pants off anybody who used the port without a license.
Of course, they almost certainly can't do that now.
surf_greatriver_v4@reddit
people want their cables as cheap as possible, it will always be a race to the bottom no matter what the standard dictates
a decade+ of microUSB has ruined us
Agreeable-Weather-89@reddit
Agreed, I also think they need to stop releasing ever more versions which results in the general consumer not being informed.
People genuinely cared about USB2 and ISB3, companies would market laptops having those ports.
It's because there was such a huge time difference between releases and so easy to tell the difference.
I don't even know what USB half my devices have or really care anymore.
I just want the branding to be clear and wait for market penetration before releasing a new version.
It should be
Interface (aka USB)
Connector (aka C)
Speed (aka 3 )
Power (aka 100W)
So all cables could be labelled with USBC3-100 at a glance I would know what transfer speed a cable it and how much power it delivers.
Strazdas1@reddit
they did market the shit out of USB3 back when it was new because of data transfer rates. I sitll got some external HDDs with eched claims of "superspeed USB 3.0"
TemuPacemaker@reddit
Good news for you: https://i.imgur.com/4v29se5.jpeg
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
Missed some optionals
Alas its more complicated than even that!
Kryohi@reddit
Lightning and thunderbolt are outside of the spec though. And pcie tunnelling is very niche. I'd say the speed tier and the charging power are the most important ones and should indeed be clearly indicated, always, together with the "USB-C". Some clear indicator for DP output would also be very nice.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I think there's an argument for saying 'fuck it' and making a USB 5.0 that can connect to C, but itself has a far more rigorous and enforced standard of what it can do.
okenowwhat@reddit
It's already happening (for speed) . I don't know about the power capacity, but I guess they are lokking into it already.
Strazdas1@reddit
Its simpler than that. The things in standard just should not be optional in the first place. If you want different configuration - use a different name.
Fit_Flower_8982@reddit
Have you seen the mess they've made just by naming the versions? They changed 3.0 to 3.1 and then to 3.2 gen1, 3.1 to 3.1 gen2 and then to 3.2 gen2, and 3.2 to 3.2 gen2x2 (or something similar, it's too confusing for me to remember well).
And that's only for 3 staggered versions, supposedly end-user oriented! It will be quite a show if they try to name the cable and port variants, but keep the standards so flexible.
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
Yep and then there are all the optional parts for power, display, thunderbolt and PCI-E. Its a giant mess of a standard and looking at a port or a cable tells you absolutely nothing about what it supports, other than its blue so its at least USB 3.0. Its a standard design to obscure what the ports are capable of so that various other hardware companies can bamboozle you and make the products hard to compare.
Wobblycogs@reddit
For cables, I thought it would be good to have bands of colours showing the maximum capabilities in each area. For example, bands near the plug would be for power delivery, a red band would be 20W. This would require legislation, though.
Nicholas-Steel@reddit
Thankfully Microsoft is pushing to resolve a lot of the confusion in future OEM devices.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
Is lightening bolt making a comeback?
Asgard033@reddit
Nah, Lightning is a proprietary dead end.
It's never going to see any relevance again going forward. Even Apple knew this, so they've switched over a bunch of things to USB-C over the years. (iPad Pro 2018, iPad Air 2020, iPad Mini 2021, iPad 2022) They were dragging their feet on phones because they wanted to continue to milk Lightning accessories, but EU regulation forced their hand. (iPhone 15 2023)
Nicholas-Steel@reddit
Apple were forced to in the EU and decided to make the change globally.
Strazdas1@reddit
Good. Let this horrible connector die.
cabbeer@reddit
Um... if you buy cheap crap then yes, my laptop charges and connects to my external display with one cable.. I can use the same cable to charge my phone/ headpones/ tablet and not worry about the voltage... I'd say that's pretty much the drem.
RandomFatAmerican420@reddit
My problem is I have bought like 20 devices that come with USB cables.
iPhone, vapes, computer mouses, cat toys, controllers, lights, etc.
Then I buy tons of anker usb c cables of varying length.
So now I have just shit tons of usb c of varying length, varying charge speed, varying data capabilities, half of which are incompatible with the other half. And I long ago lost track of what goes with what. So basically I’m fucked.
bexamous@reddit
Why do you need a shit ton of USB-C cables? Find 5 good ones and throw rest out. And now those 5 work everywhere. Problem solved.
RandomFatAmerican420@reddit
Cuz I use them in my car, in my room, around the house, mobile with battery pack, etc. I use 3 at a time just to charge my vapes.
Plus as I said the problem is that the “good”, high power, high transfer speed ones don’t always work with the tiny devices that require low charging rate.
bexamous@reddit
Dude get however many you need. And throw out the shit ones.
Then they're not USB-C devices. IMO throw that shit out too. Its obviously nothing special because they were cheap as fuck as to not implement USB-C. Its likely a USB-A device with a physical USB-C connector on it. Really it wants like a USB-C to USB-A cable... or you can get ultra shit USB-C to USB-C cables that aren't really USB-C. You're buying too much junk if this is a common problem you have.
RandomFatAmerican420@reddit
My cat toys are special to my cat.
I’m not gonna painstakingly search to find a glow in the dark cat ball that moves around on its own and also has full usbc implementation.
Same with their lazer pointers and other toys.
TemuPacemaker@reddit
Then just get a few decent 100W cabels for everything.
Some weird non-compliant devices will be weird, yeah, nothing USB-IF can do to force uknown Chinese vendors to follow the specs.
hollow_bridge@reddit
Tons of stuff comes with usb-c cables. I have so many trash quality 20cm or less cables.
ElectricalFeature328@reddit
my wife has a collection of colored tapes and I just tag mine every time I get a new one. it's a mild inconvenience, really
Tasty-Traffic-680@reddit
This. Thunderbolt cables are generally okay with labeling but anything less is a crapshoot. I have to keep my 10gbps cables segregated so I don't lose track of them all.
BlueGoliath@reddit
Then you have to deal with sagging or the connector breaking off.
Limited_Distractions@reddit
This is a bad framing for it but a lot of these issues are very real to me
Absent any clear signposting a ubiquitous connector with such loose standards ends up being only as universal as the functionality overlap between the best and worst cable you own when it comes down to it
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I think the best solution might be USB 5.0 that's ahead of C in all metrics and reverse compatible - cables into C sockets, but not vice versa. It both lets us deep six this mare's nest while allowing a convenient switchover with a known competent standard design.
ET3D@reddit
I think that the article is very exaggerated.
I have chargers that I use to charge my phone, tablet, GPD WIN 4, Quest 2/3, headphones, shaver, ... Sure, they might not be perfect for them, but they're close to that, and it's not a big issue. A new enough, powerful enough charger is going to handle all of them adequately.
And is it a real problem finding out which port on a laptop can be used for charging? OMG, reading the manual! And it's typically marked. If after a few days you don't know what port that is, it's a good idea to stop using electronic devices altogether.
And yes, data transfer can still be an issue, and I do find it confusing that I need separate cables for high power charging and high speed data transfer, but the USB-C charging standard wasn't meant to solve this. What it was meant to solve, it largely solved.
hollow_bridge@reddit
I mostly agree, but I've been noticing some modern low-end usb-c devices cant charge at all when using usb-c to usb-c cables, and instead require usb-c to usb-a cables. (this is particularly common with disposable vapes for example, but i've also seen it on some bluetooth devices).
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Eh, it depends. Quality of USB controller can help with aging devices like my old phone; thought the data lines were dead there, but the better USB on my new X870e Phantom were still able to get legible signal off it.
FatalCakeIncident@reddit
I love USB-C and its PD abilities. I'm a hobbiest electronics doodler, and it's so useful to have a single interface with multiple voltages and a consistent polarity standard because it makes for so much simple cross compatibility.
I binned a whole bag load of old wall warts a couple of weeks ago, because this is life now. It's all just so convenient.
On the point of data cables though, I do see the author's point. Fortunately, I spent £1 on a multi pack of coloured pvc tape, so now I can label the cables that can handle high data speeds, and know which ones to use at a glance.
Honestly, as someone who's old enough to remember when usb 1.0 was introduced, what we have now is living the dream.
TwilightOmen@reddit
First, this feels like some sort of strange April fool's joke. Second, given that it is true, this is definitely not an article worth sharing. It is obviously wrong. USB-C was made to be a standard connector, not a standard framework, interface or standard of communication. What the author is claiming is the problem is its exact purpose, its reason for existence. Ridiculous, terrible article. And shame on you for sharing this tripe!
LuluButt3rs@reddit
Buy only usb4 cables
Problem solved
Jeep-Eep@reddit
TBH, USB2 data rate is not a major issue for what I use USB-C for; it being slower to move my photos to my platters is not a great issue if it caps at SATA 3.0 speeds and needs to recharge anyway.
Wobblycogs@reddit
The article is spot on, USB is an utter mess now. Worse, now that it's mandatory on so many devices were stuck with it. It could have been so good but it needed the legislation to mandate clear marking and a limited number of options e.g. 3 power levels for charging and three data rates.