User wants Python in Excel. On a toolbar. It’s Friday. Send help.
Posted by Funkenzutzler@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 215 comments
Hello fellow sufferers,
As you probably know it's Friday afternoon. That means spirits are low and Coffee's out. Also the printer’s doing that haunted whirring thing again.
And then, like a cursed scroll appearing on my desk, i receive the following Request:
"Hallo, wäre es möglich dass wir das Tool in der Leiste aktivieren können wie beschrieben als Icon die Funktion =py funktioniert aber nur bedingte Varianten."
For the lucky few unfamiliar... this is a user attempting to enable Python in Excel, but not like a normal person trying to suffer quietly - no, they want it on a toolbar, like a nice little friendly "Start Breakdown" button. I tried to process this logically. But Excel is not an IDE. It's a spreadsheet. Basically a friggin' calculator with gridlines. And now people are trying to turn it into VS Code because someone saw a Microsoft blog post while procrastinating on real work.
But wait, there’s more.
I can’t even disable macros globally because some of our users have homegrown structural engineering tools built in Excel. Yes. People are running what are essentially statics simulations powered by "ActiveSheet.Range("B3").Calculate" and hope. Macros are now production code. And i'm in the unwilling support team.
My current Status:
- 78% mental integrity lost
- Seriously considering writing a fake OOO auto-reply.
- Looking for a support group for sysadmins whose users are building full-stack systems in Excel
Can someone please remind me why I didn't go into goat farming?
Erok2112@reddit
This sounds like a Monday afternoon problem to me. Maybe Tuesday.
MrYiff@reddit
Are they talking about the new(ish), native Python in Excel functionality? It comes with tool bar button that might be what they are talking about.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/office/get-started-with-python-in-excel-a33fbcbe-065b-41d3-82cf-23d05397f53d
ItsChileNotChili@reddit
Every hacker on planet earth is grinning from ear to ear about this.
Xzenor@reddit
Oh damn, it's actually there, I just checked.
I love Python... but in Excel? That feels so wrong..
hops_on_hops@reddit
Better than vba
pdp10@reddit
Excel will have to support VBA for as long as Excel continues to exist. If Excel dropped VBA support, then what would be the point of putting up with Excel?
If one wanted to use Python language, they shouldn't use a legacy spreadsheet application. Go clean-sheet, tabula rasa.
VexingRaven@reddit
So, what tool would you use if you want editable, freeform spreadsheets but with Python? And how many people are you going to have to explain how to open the resulting file to?
da_chicken@reddit
Excel without VBA is still the best spreadsheet software. Even with the crusty 1990-isms.
hops_on_hops@reddit
If you're still using vba, you're the problem. Sorry, not sorry.
pdp10@reddit
No reason to be sorry. I haven't so much as touched Excel in 10-15 years, and anything called BASIC in a lot longer than that. I did use Excel about 30 years ago, but then I found better tools for any important tasks.
Vadoola@reddit
Personally I dislike Python, but I'll take it over VBA
DGC_David@reddit
Much better than VBA
NotAMotivRep@reddit
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VBA
turgidbuffalo@reddit
you don't sound convinced
Kodiak01@reddit
Laughs in Microsoft Access
SenTedStevens@reddit
Could not connect to "convinced." You may be missing an x86 ODBC connector.
UltraEngine60@reddit
okay who punched my monitor
Kodiak01@reddit
ODBC Microsoft Access Driver Log In Failed
ScriptMonkey78@reddit
needs a few more copied of "much" to take effect.
Xzenor@reddit
Oh absolutely. It's probably a good thing but it just feels like pineapple on Pizza.. like the 2 don't really belong together..
sysacc@reddit
It works well if you know how to use it.
It's also self contained and cant do much other than fancy math.
We consider it safer than macros.
Xzenor@reddit
Well I get that. Do you need to have Python installed for this? Or does it have an interpreter built-in?
sysacc@reddit
You dont need python installed on the OS. There is an interpreter contained within Excell.
darthwalsh@reddit
Unless it's changed, it doesn't run a python interpreter inside of your Excel. Instead it sandboxes python by only running it in Azure.
ThatITguy2015@reddit
What the fuck is excel becoming.
Acojonancio@reddit
Excel is going to become the next VM Ware
Diseased-Imaginings@reddit
A self contained ETL pipeline, apparently.
ThatITguy2015@reddit
Welp. That triggered some PTSD from excel “databases”, so thanks I guess.
lampishthing@reddit
It's actually kinda awesome.
axonxorz@reddit
Keeping in mind that all python you put in your spreadsheets is executed in Azure, not locally.
Some will care about that, some will not.
Joe-Cool@reddit
So if the Internet connection fails or MS decides you don't need it you cannot run any of it?
Brilliant as usual.
svideo@reddit
Like it or not, Excel is and always has been a development environment for its users.
A_Blind_Alien@reddit
I wrote a python script for someone recently but then they wanted to give it to someone non technical to use in excel
I just copied the script into ChatGPT and said ‘change this to vba’ with the function names I needed and it just worked without me looking at VBA at all, that was my first encounter with ChatGPT where it did my job in seconds that would have taken me a few hours to figure out
mike9874@reddit
Their Excel copilot integration is heavily focused on the Python features. Basically copilot will write python for you to get Excel doing anything you want with your data.
zakabog@reddit
Math nerds love Python too, and Excel, they're great tools for statistical analysis and work really well together.
Xzenor@reddit
Math nerds that love Python generally don't love Excel. They love numpy and Pandas and matplotlib or plotly but not Excel... Generally
zakabog@reddit
I work with quants all day and almost all of them combine python with Excel spreadsheets, a large part of their workflow is importing csv data into Excel and analyzing it with Python
MrYiff@reddit
Yeah, it's odd I guess but maybe better than old style macros, at least the python code seems to be run in an isolated azure environment rather than locally so at its gotta be better than old macros you would hope.
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
Yes. I fear so.
antomaa12@reddit
So your user do not have an Enterprise or a Business license? I have one but I'm under Mac atm so I can't see it. It should be here genuinely now
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
They have.
I… may have, technically, created a M365 Apps Preview Build Update Ring in Intune for "a few" users - for testing purposes, of course. Controlled rollout. Very professional.
And now one of them has decided to harness this unholy power.
I have, as we say here, "mich ordentlich in die Nesseln gesetzt".
Here’s the ring of regret in all its glory:
Yes, I labeled them PILOT. No, that didn’t stop anyone.
I thought I was enabling innovation.
I was enabling heresy.
gcbeehler5@reddit
nothing to add other than I had to look that up and I love it soo much. German is wild, and had no idea what to expect.
translation here; >!got me into a real pickle!<
EmberGlitch@reddit
Honestly, your translation is missing how wild and fun German can be sometimes.
A fairly faithful literal translation would be something like ">!to plant oneself squarely in the stinging nettles!<" (why are we using spoiler tags, btw?). It just perfectly captures that very specific feeling of a painful, annoying, and entirely self-inflicted screw-up.
mriswithe@reddit
Recently learned from a Moldovan colleague, they don't say "The burnt hand learns best" they say, "If you burn yourself on the soup, you might find yourself blowing on the yogurt. or something to that effect.
jmbpiano@reddit
Sorry for the incoming rant, but man, this poked at one of my current pet peeves about the current state of Google Translate. I wish there was a "just give me the literal phrase, please" button.
So many times I've translated an idiom from a foreign language, noticed that one of the words I sorta-kinda recognized didn't show up in the English version at all, and realized that if I translated it word by word instead of the phrase, the original idiom was way more culturally interesting than whatever Google thought the English equivalent was.
It can also really destroy word plays that are obvious with a more one-to-one translation. Even if the result doesn't sound as "natural" in English, the Translate version can sometimes end up being more confusing as a result of the loss of context.
Symbolis@reddit
For some reason the 'mich' is throwing machine translation off.
When you remove that both deepl and google give:
whizzwr@reddit
I think "shooting oneself in the foot" will be better understood by most English speaker
gcbeehler5@reddit
I love that one even more and find it funnier. Also, I just use a spoiler tag because they trying to guess what it was beforehand just was hilarious to me. Because you’re not gonna be close at all even if you kind of know some German.
antomaa12@reddit
wait, the beta testing excel version do not have python button?
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
The other way arround?
At least i assume that it's the "PREVIEW" channel that has the Python button.
antomaa12@reddit
Well this is what they say:
The other cases are described here: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-started-with-python-in-excel-a33fbcbe-065b-41d3-82cf-23d05397f53d
So, if the user is under a business or enterprise license, I asked a colleague, you should have the button.
Sapper12D@reddit
I can confirm the python button in excel w/ enterprise license. Currently on version 2504.
It_Is1-24PM@reddit
I'm on 2503 Monthly Enterprise and the Python button is there, as expected.
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
2503 here on my tesclient as well (Build 18623.20266), Monthly Enterprise. No Python button in sight.
Could it be that you are using the Insider build / program?
It_Is1-24PM@reddit
I'm not a Windows sysadmin, so can only check from the workstation pov. It just says 'Monthly Enterprise Channel', same build number as yours.
Clear_Key5135@reddit
I wonder if this is a difference between EU and US versions. I have it on Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2412 Build 16.0.18324.20272)
antomaa12@reddit
my guess is the computer user is in an old build i think
MrYiff@reddit
If office is up to date and they have the right license you shouldnt need to do anything, I just checked and I can see the Python button in the toolbar on my PC with an E3 license and on the Enterprise Monthly release channel.
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
Thanks - and yes, I’m aware that it shows up automatically under the right conditions.
That’s precisely the problem.
Guess one of my users found the Python button thanks to their spot in our "Microsoft 365 Apps for Windows 10 and Later (PILOT)" deployment whichs update ring ist set to: "Current Channel (PREVIEW)"
MrYiff@reddit
Weird how they dont have if they are on Current Channel but I do on MEC which runs a month or so behind current.
Bloody Microsoft!
log1k@reddit
I don't understand how that stuff works. I had a user ask me about a year ago for Copilot in Teams which was just being rolled out for the first time. She asked because another co-worker had it and she wanted to try it out. I couldn't do anything other than just ensure she was in the right updates channel, which we're all in the same one. So I had no idea how the other person had it.
That's also ignoring the fact that I would have liked to check it out too, but even I couldn't find a way to manually add myself or update Teams to get it. And then finally about a month ago my Teams updated....
whizzwr@reddit
I may get struck by a Lightning due to angering Excel and Python gods, but I like it:calling numpy linalg in Excel is pretty funny.
And by the way:
>But Excel is not an IDE. It's a spreadsheet
This one makes it so, it includes autocomplete, even typing annotation, look at my screenshot closely.
It's obviously the same Intellisense baked to Visual Studio.
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
But WHY? Why in Excel?
They have VS-Code.
They have NP++.
They can have Jupyter, for all i care.
But Excel? Please… No!
They see a cell and think: "yes, this is where i will now write machine learning code".
thetinguy@reddit
Because you want to perform analysis on tabular data?
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
Sure. They can throw their precious tabular data into GPT for analysis for all i care.
At least then i won’t have to explain poor Jürgen running the CNC machine - on a PC with a floppy drive - why opening the Excel sheet just f**** up his entire workstation and somehow triggered a tool-change mid-cut.
Or the poor soul in Quality why their Excel now demands a "real" GPU and 32GB of RAM the moment he trys to open "NCRTrackerFromHell_final_finalfinal_v2.xlsm"
IngrownBurritoo@reddit
Times move fast. I gladly take python over vba or any other alternative. Do not take away tools that have proven to be good in the end for exactly these use cases. The automation and data analytics tools on hand are better given to python. Microsoft is making the right decision in this
Sasataf12@reddit
Why not in Excel?
If it was a 3rd party add-on, I could see an issue. But it's not, it's an official feature. So what's the problem, aside from "but that's not the way I would do it"?
jmbpiano@reddit
Because it's a hell of a lot better than writing code in VBA.
Why wouldn't you want your spreadsheet to have the ability to do more advanced statistical analysis? Unlike a lot of the other extraneous cruft MS has slapped onto Excel's feature list over the years, this one actually fits the product's core competency and intended use: crunching numbers.
jmbpiano@reddit
Because it's a hell of a lot better than writing code in VBA.
Why wouldn't you want your spreadsheet to have the ability to do more advanced statistical analysis? Unlike a lot of the other extraneous cruft MS has slapped onto Excel's feature list over the years, this one actually fits the product's core competency and intended use: crunching numbers.
whizzwr@reddit
YES! *laugh diabolicaly
elprophet@reddit
Almost certainly pylance under the hood, hopefully with a sane venv like thing (per workbook? Eww... but... then pip wouldn't break 800 things on accident) and a curated default package list. Did numpy and matplotlib come default?
whizzwr@reddit
yes, I can readily import numpy and matplotlib, also pandas. I don't hink you can install arbitrary package (yet).
It's basically Anaconda virtual environment hosted in Azure. More technical details in https://github.com/microsoft/python-in-excel
elprophet@reddit
Oh hmm I don't love that the anaconda env is in the cloud, but the alternative is literally including it in the xslx...
whizzwr@reddit
Me too, I dont even like Anaconda. Prefer vanilla venv. From IT management and security PoV the cloud env, is probably the easier solution though, imagine Macro threat model, but Python.
Here we are offloading those thing to Microsoft and we pay license.
elprophet@reddit
"Offloading" is doing some heavy lifting in that sentence, haha! It's certainly shifting the thread model.
Running locally, one _could_ fork cpython, reimplement the OS (file, env, network, etc) primitives to sandbox them, and then have a happy little runtime. Heck, it's microsoft, they could virtualize the entirety of that in Excel at this point and completely firewall that off. A lot of work, but the threat model remains "local desktop pwnd" (which is the default stance in a zero-trust environment).
Now when I email the xslx file, they get the macro prompt, and it takes "a while" to prewarm site_packages, and then it runs. In this system, when I share a Python enabled excel, they need to coordinate not just the file sharing but also the Azure permissions sharing model.
TLDR it looks like a giant trade off and they can probably secure a container on Azure easier than a container on, i dunno... what's the lowest power device Excel supports? Whatever that is
whizzwr@reddit
Iphone and android phone I think
arpan3t@reddit
So they should already have it if they’re licensed and on the appropriate office update channel…
The button doesn’t do anything special, just inserts
=py(into the selected cell.I’d rather they use Python than VBA. The Python execution is done in an ephemeral cloud container, using anaconda packages, and has no network or local system access.
andrefreitas@reddit
Yes they are. Had a ticket opened like this one weeks ago.
Teknikal_Domain@reddit
Is that username worthy of a r/rimjob_steve? Or just proof that furries run the entire IT industry from helpdesk to sysadmins.
...... Ignore the fact that my head is a triangle.
InternetIcy1097@reddit
Couldn't be. It has to be something rediculously impossible because users are dumb and susadmin staff are all knowing Gods. We must make fun of users instead of trying to understand their needs - even doing basic Google searches for "excel python toolbar" and the like to check if what they're asking for is easily available. We must be superior. They must be inferior. Only then can we begin to exterminate tile (l)user vermin ..
/Sarcasm
Anlarb@reddit
They were were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
MrYiff@reddit
Might be better than old vb macros at least, by the looks of it the python doesnt execute locally, its all done in azure so only the results are shown client side.
jmbpiano@reddit
This is really my only gripe with the feature.
I'm not keen on my business logic being tied to a cloud feature that Microsoft could decide to retire in a few years if it's not profitable for them.
It would be one thing if this was utilizing heavy enough compute resources to justify offloading it, but I'm highly skeptical of the claim that this couldn't have been implemented just fine locally.
mirrax@reddit
I mean the alternative in VBA is definitely not better.
gordonv@reddit
Wait, did we get an Insert Python before we got an Insert Powershell?!
ddadopt@reddit
What do you mean "now?" Engineers have been doing crazy shit like this for thirty years at this point, and poor schmucks like us have been supporting their "mission critical" spreadsheets for almost as long.
2FalseSteps@reddit
Anyone still maintaining user's Access databases?
* hides in shame *
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
LOL… yeah.
I recently had a user casually ask me if I had a "spare" SQL Server lying around so they could migrate their Access DB.
As if SQL Servers grow on trees.
Impressive-Bag-384@reddit
why not just tell users to use sqlite with db browser - better/faster/free/etc.???
I can't stand using access
xixi2@reddit
They grow in clouds.
ObiLAN-@reddit
If SQL Servers grew on trees, I'd have an orchard and still be out of licenses LMAO.
pdp10@reddit
I know, right? Only PostgreSQL servers grow on trees. That's where the data should be migrated.
ddadopt@reddit
I have users with an access database that... tracks the data in another database.
darthwalsh@reddit
When I worked on the power query team, one of the sibling teams was an Azure service dedicated to tracking your various data sources.
At the time I didn't understand why it could be useful, but it sounds like it would have got that project to stop using Access?
2FalseSteps@reddit
Ugh.
My condolences on the loss of your sanity. :(
gakule@reddit
Flashbacks to my time at a (then) Fortune 25 manufacturing company that had a plant where an engineer turned Excel into an HMI/SCADA interface because they wouldn't give him the budget to license HMI/SCADA software from... themselves
ddadopt@reddit
You down with OPC? Yeah you know me!
You didn't happen to work for Siemens, did you?
gakule@reddit
Fuckin OPC... Should have put a trigger warning!
General Electric 🙂
ddadopt@reddit
LOL, GE makes sense, too. The reason I asked is that when I worked for Siemens we got cross charged for licenses for our dev and QA machines (to be clear, the licenses weren't some random internal software, though we got cross charged for that too, we were being cross charged for the software we were developing).
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
Well... at least they don't use MATLAB here.
Lucky me.
d00ber@reddit
Honestly, compared to your request and some of the access DB fuckery that I've seen.. I prefer MATLAB.
BloodFeastMan@reddit
Over the years, by request, I have produced some spreadsheets that are basically stand-alone erp's.
tadrith@reddit
Changes don't happen on Friday. This is an immutable rule.
needssleep@reddit
Tell that bitch "No"
ATL_we_ready@reddit
So license it for them
CostaSecretJuice@reddit
The business isn’t there for IT, IT is there for the business.
Icetorn@reddit
And HR in the year of lour Lord 2025 uses a single excel spreadsheet for every single user in the entire enterprise, all of their logins, perms, AD groups, phone/softphone info, listed/given devices, login log, shifts and a few more things.
Brother. You are a ghost, in a meaty bag of blood and mushy things, tied to a spinning rock, hurtling through space towards God knows what. Fear nothing. This will not matter on monday.
LeaveMickeyOutOfThis@reddit
Trying to help you out here: Given the recent increase in security issues globally, your request is subject to a security assessment and, if approved, the introduction of new operational processes, which you will need to agree to prior to the approval of your request. Please provide a detailed explanation of how you anticipate this function to operate, details of the code review practices, what security vulnerability assessment process will be employed, and how will code be secured in a repository for regulatory review and assessment.
darthwalsh@reddit
Sure, it feels good, but this is how the IT department becomes "The bad guys", and executive leadership will hear about IT is slowing things down, instead of enabling business goals.
rosseloh@reddit
I like this, way better than my answer which would have been "no".
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
Me too. I actually used parts of it to reply to the user.
Thanks u/LeaveMickeyOutOfThis :-)
Haelios_505@reddit
Good old wally reflector
ranhalt@reddit
My friends from college IT helpdesk have a favorite story. It was a guy who called in because he didn't like how Excel graphed the natural log of x as it approached 0 (undefined). He actually called a student manned help desk over and over again hoping to get someone who would make Excel work differently in a way he liked. He was yelling at us in a way that was no longer funny. It was the only time that a full time employee had to get involved and talk to the caller about their behavior and said he's now on the list that any calls from him go to a full time employee (who does not take support calls) and IT would bill his dept the appropriately outrageous fee for that time.
OkWheel4741@reddit
And i thought people using excel as a database was a horror show
judgethisyounutball@reddit
It's never too late to become a goat farmer
Stompert@reddit
Farming, really? A man of your talents?
eXtc_be@reddit
he might be referring to this post
Stompert@reddit
Ah, I missed that one. I just saw an opportunity to throw in a sequel meme.
BumHound@reddit
Tell that to the guy in jail for goat fucking.
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
Already started pricing out (Swiss) Alpine goats.
They’re quiet, don’t ask for silly things, and the only network i have to manage is a friggin' fence.
flummox1234@reddit
plus you get to have those cool dogs ... well I guess that's sheep but you can make it work.
Mr_Bleidd@reddit
They are quite ? Meeeeeeeeeeh ?
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
Well... pretty quite.
At least compared to an angry user yelling at me on helpdesk.
This_guy_works@reddit
Dear end user:
No. That's weird. Ask for help with something less weird.
Nietechz@reddit
Just tell him, "We, company, can't support that. We'll need to hire external support. Contact your boss/CEO.
Hot_Ease_4895@reddit
Loool. Bet these guys love clicking on suspicious emails huh. 😂
Bird_SysAdmin@reddit
from what i can tell it would not be easy to have a malicious python script inside of excel. It runs from azure and if you do an os.getcwd it reports as /mnt/file_upload and whoami returns a weird random azure username
wason92@reddit
This is such a very strange post.... Why should a user be denied something just cause you're all upset...
goot449@reddit
ITT: User wants to use excel feature that was added 2 years ago, admin stuck in 2007
dzfast@reddit
Been scrolling down on this thread and decided to call it here. You're right.
I bet OP doesn't even know that Excel 97 had a Flight Sim Easter egg.
Copilot is specifically designed to write python for Excel. OP is being whiny.
progenyofeniac@reddit
“We don’t support this”
I have no problem fixing actual issues. But you have to draw a line at what’s supported. People asking for you to customize their setups based on some video they saw but are too stupid to follow better be on the far side of that line.
TheSmJ@reddit
Yup. Where I am, any user that writes software is also on the hook when it comes to supporting it. That goes for Excel macros and spreadsheets as well.
"It worked yesterday and it stopped working today? Better get the developer on the phone. Oh, you're the developer? You know a lot more about how this software functions than I do. Debug your own shit."
Ethan-Reno@reddit
This is the answer.
PastDry1443@reddit
holy shit, I had a really long Friday, but when I finally took a break and was doomscrolling Reddit, I just randomly came across your post and laughed for 5 minutes straight. Your writing style is pure GOLD. You made my evening
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
Are you though? Or are you making yourself Superman by supporting this?
Where I work, if a user did that, the support would be on them or their department. The IT Helpdesk does not support "User Generated" Macros or Code. Pretty simple. Like, how could you support something you know nothing about?
Stop trying to be Superman and your sanity will come back to you.
Again, no. IT does not support this. Your IT does not have the skills or experience or knowledge. Offer the manage the billing rate of an Office Macro Expert, and see how fast they change their decision about whether they need that macro or not.
If they want to proceed anyway, be sure to remind them that if macro-creating employee leaves, they will be on their own for supoort.
BoltActionRifleman@reddit
This is our take on it as well. If Excel successfully opens and functions as it did upon installation, anything beyond that is not our problem.
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
It's really the only way it can be managed, because what happens if you do support it's that the person who knows how it works —the expert in Office macros or Access databases —leaves and gets a better job as a coder or something.
And their replacement... might know how to install Office, but knows nothing about macros or code. And I, as a former IT Manager, was supposed to do what exactly, send my new guy to training from my budget?
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
Totally fair - and you're right in principle.
Officially, we don't support user-generated macros or code either.
That said… unofficially, when a macro breaks in the quarterly reporting file that’s somehow linked to Power BI, three SharePoint folders, and someone’s cousin’s Excel sheet from 2014, the ticket still lands on our desk - even if it's just to blame us.
I do admire anyone whose IT environment is tidy enough to fully dodge that fallout.
I wasn't so much asking for help as i was just… screaming into the void with some gallows humor.
TL;DR:
90% sarcasm,
10% despair,
0% request for policy advice 😅
Appreciate the insight though - always good to hear how others survive the spreadsheetpocalypse.
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
I've heard that goats scream pretty loudly too...
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
The goats will get used to me screaming back, tho.
Eventually we’ll just harmonize.
reubendevries@reddit
Yup, if you have an info sec team let them deal with it, but otherwise, you just need to advise them that you team won’t support in house scripts that haven’t met the definition of done (and trust me that’s never getting to that point), otherwise wish them good luck and Godspeed on their journey!
1a2b3c4d_1a2b3c4d@reddit
Since Access 97 landed on everybody's desk almost 30 years ago, I have been pushing off Office DB and Macro support like a pro!
Just yesterday someone from a remote site was crying to me becuase some Access DB stopped working, and the guy who wrote it and maintained it retired... I advised them they had better get a consultant in quickly.
Such_Plane1776@reddit
Just disable macros and claim it is in support of an “enhanced security posture” - end users be damned!
My organization did it out of no where because they thought it was a great idea, it completely hosed everything and they don’t care.
zakabog@reddit
It seems weird to me because I don't understand how to use Excel to this level, but the people that do can do magic with it. I don't feel like this request is that weird, considering how many quants I've seen do exactly the same thing.
lilelliot@reddit
I'm with you. I question why a lot of business users need Excel, period (just give them Google Sheets!), but for the ones who do, they really do and Excel is a legitimate development platform (and has been for decades). There are even commercial products out there setup to maintain version control and auditability of Excel workbooks, functions and code (aimed mostly at Financial Services & Healthcare/Pharma users).
I don't think the OP has a legitimate complaint and may need to reevaluate their perception of what superusers can do with Excel, and how Excel is valued within their company.
Scary_Bus3363@reddit
This sounds like a job for a consultant.
AoDude@reddit
Your users know what python is? You should be so lucky. Sometimes I feel like a goat farmer...
chrisabides@reddit
Excel is a living, breathing example of “could, not should”
Having been in the MSP world for 13 of my 17 years in IT, I have seen Excel twisted and deformed into all sorts of things that should be done by an actual database or entire other application.
It never stops being triggering to me.
It is the fire given to man, a gift man did not deserve, and did not wield responsibly.
Khue@reddit
I wish someone would make a pandas port for powershell so I can terminate all the python the business uses. Whenever someone's python breaks on their workstation for whatever reason, it becomes a massive ordeal and outside of the pandas library, there's no reason they can't use powershell to do what they are doing.
RikiWardOG@reddit
Except learn an entirely different language that has a weird syntax and isn't object oriented lol terrible argument imo
RampageUT@reddit
Python is a legitimate request if he is in a data heavy field. Its been included in PowerBI for ages. I see nothing unreasonable about this.
1d0m1n4t3@reddit
I was requested to add a picture to a users email signature. We deploy signatures via o365 appending rule, nothing is setup for user pictures in email signatures. My response "no, no one wants to see the sales person face in their email. I can speak for all of humanity when I say this, i have everyone's permission" They dropped the picture request, felt good.
The_Wkwied@reddit
Why does this user think that IT manages and troubleshoots customized in-spreadsheet formulas and macros? Sounds like an end user task. As long as you have the prereqs installed, it's on them.
CoolNefariousness668@reddit
I’m just glad that all of our users, financial or otherwise are too dumb to know about any of this.
ipinsao29@reddit
I'm a developer and this is a perfect example where there is friction, although I used to be a sysadmin so I can relate.
From the sysadmin perspective, excel is just a spreadsheet, word is just a word processor. From a developers standpoint they can do more things especially for users that require more complex functionalities than simply adding numbers in a column.
As a system admin, you should stick with your cybersecurity policies. and inform your user about those policies. Email them and their leadership how enabling macros can harm the network.
You mentioned those users are engineers (software engineers?) advice them whatever cyber restrictions you have and they should be able to build following those rules.
Number crunching is no longer contained in a user's excel. companies/organizations are sharing their datasets with others via python.
gumbrilla@reddit
This.. I agree.. we give our developers admin access (they are on MacOS), and the rules. Mainly don't mess with the security programs, don't use your admin as your daily driver.
If they encounter any issues, then they are welcome to raise a ticket with me, and I will restore them to a working state in 10 minutes. No issue at all. In fact, whatever issue they report, it will be resolved to a good known state in 10 minutes.
Now if information flows are being set up, then there are policies for that as well, but that's all part of the SDLC.
Antscircus@reddit
You’re wrong, Excel is a database not a calculator /s
ride_whenever@reddit
Excel is such a fucking pox on all our houses.
The amount of ridiculously, should be in a BI tool/data warehouse, overengineered rickety bullshit I’ve seen is way too high, then it’s presented as the sOuRcE oF tRuTh like it’s gospel (if it’s fucking gospel, regenerate it from our systems of record then, dickhead)
It has a ludicrous amount of feature bloat, and should absolutely be stripped right back.
SuperSeeks@reddit
You can use Excel to track your goats!
Accomplished-Fly-975@reddit
That's nice to hear. How about someone trying to do an rdbms in excel? What if I tell you that same person is in my department, and he said he could build the entire ERP we use, in excel?
Nanocephalic@reddit
Excel is fucken magic.
Pretty sure it’s powered by eldritch horrors and human sacrifices.
iraolla@reddit
Just tried it out =py and curse is done. Last week had a user disconnected from network
BinaryWanderer@reddit
Does this user fall down stairs a lot? Because it sounds like this user falls down stairs a lot.
iraolla@reddit
unfortunatelly he works at the ground floor
systemhost@reddit
Unfortunately 😂
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
So basically the user built a fork bomb in Excel with ChatGPT?
Well... This is what happens when copy-paste becomes an attack vector. ;-)
iraolla@reddit
Exactly it was funny how many times it had to happen for helpdesk to find out way and tell me the whole story
No-Rip-9573@reddit
How does that work? I read the Python code is running in azure somewhere, can it really create local files?
iraolla@reddit
oh no no, that was a regular vb macro, not a py one. Fortunatelly my users haven't found out about py yet. (At least helpdesk didn't said anything and no S1 alerts)
Bitwise_Gamgee@reddit
I love the new Python utitility, it's literally saved us from evil Excel macros.
TheJesusGuy@reddit
I also have structural engineers with macro enabled excels that constantly get caught in the spam filter..
ANiceCupOf_Tea_@reddit
Ich trink einen für dich mit!
2FalseSteps@reddit
Coffee's out???
How can you work under those conditions???
zakabog@reddit
Our ice machines were busted, so I had no ice cubes available for my cold brew coffee. Damn near quit on the spot...
BatemansChainsaw@reddit
At this point I feel like you should chuck all their data into a database and give them an extremely limited terminal access with python and tell them "good luck" as they bang out their lines of code in Notepad++...
Bogus1989@reddit
you had an appointment scheduled today. sorry
flummox1234@reddit
Obligatory XKCD https://xkcd.com/2347/
lumpynose@reddit
Goats will chew holes in your shoelaces.
mistasnarlz@reddit
Tell them no. Or if no isnt an answer then tell them this needs to get approved by InfoSec first and they probably arent going to get around to it until Monday.
Papfox@reddit
Screw it, it's Friday.
Ignore the ticket until Monday and, if the person does manage to get hold of you in person, tell them there's 6 people in the queue ahead of them and you'll have a look on Monday.
No_Wear295@reddit
Because the sh** that you have to deal with from the goats (usually) smells worse
Spirits up, it's almost the weekend :)
Xzenor@reddit
"We do not support this."
Have a nice weekend
weHaveThoughts@reddit
Goats smell.
WhiskyTequilaFinance@reddit
I once replaced a completely destroyed keyboard, because the user slathered herself in half a gallon of scented lotion everyday and glued the keys together with it. Which eventually got enough lint and food particles in it to both grow mold and attract ants.
Yet IT were the issue for giving her a faulty keyboard.
I'll take the goats.
wwbubba0069@reddit
Have a user that uses hand sanitizer to wipe the desk and equipment down every time she returns to the desk. I have learned that used long enough, it will put a mirror finish on a desk phone handset. Lost track of the mice and keyboards that have failed over the years.
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
Not a good counterargument.
Some users do too.
cashMoney5150@reddit
I had the exact same issue with my engineers. I said we have Python at home. And installed Anaconda for them.
nullbyte420@reddit
why not? why does it matter to you
Local-Run-1704@reddit
I just want to comment to say I love your writing style.
andrew_joy@reddit
Its "read only Friday" or as i call it "f***k off Friday" because that is what you say to anyone who wants you to make a change :)
ieatsilicagel@reddit
I'm old enough to have written a couple of full-stack systems in Excel myself.
trutheality@reddit
Excel has been more than "just" a spreadsheet editor for more than 30 years now. I think you need to be either honest with your users and say you don't support more than half the functionality of Excel, or you need to learn Excel.
7ep3s@reddit
A lot of this sounds self-induced. Seek help.
But beforehands, change the user's update channel to m365 monthly enterprise so they can be happy too with their python for excel toolbar widget.
samps22@reddit
I did just that... Quit IT and now I'm running a small herd of 120 boar goats. It really is a step up the well-being ladder...
Ectorious@reddit
Sounds like you need to make an emergency run to the store for more coffee
Awlson@reddit
And some Bailey's to put in it.
pertexted@reddit
I use =py in some reports now for user and device management, license reporting, intune compliance...
If they already have the ability to macro and use dev tools, why are they asking you to provide a toolbar for them? Wouldn't they want to handle that and just surprise you with new business requirements during the next feature update? :p
3Cogs@reddit
"Request SLA is five days".
Then forget about it until Monday.
GreatRyujin@reddit
This Monday is a state holiday in Germany...Just sayin\^\^
3Cogs@reddit
Request SLA is five working days. :-)
astonishing1@reddit
Sometimes it is okay to say "Sorry, I don't know how to do that. I'll keep checking, but I am not confident I can find a solution. Do you have any ideas on how to implement this?".
Krumbelfix@reddit
GreatRyujin@reddit
Da fehlt noch irgendwas mit DSGVO.
Hat nichts mit dem Thema zu tun, aber das spielt auch keine Rolle, wenn ich mir Begründungen ansehe die ich schon so bekommen habe.
Agitated_Blackberry@reddit
Very first link when you google “python in excel”… https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-started-with-python-in-excel-a33fbcbe-065b-41d3-82cf-23d05397f53d
The user’s request isn’t outlandish and is something supported natively in recent Office versions…….
RealisticQuality7296@reddit
Must be fuckin nice
marinul@reddit
Set your out of office message to look like a NDR.
Did this once and the company owner called me to say "hope no client sees this shit". It was the internal ooo, but still made him panic.
jhaand@reddit
For a Friday afternoon to wetten your appetite for more beer, here's a talk about software failures and the humans behind them.
Has a part about spreadsheets from 29:30.
Watch "The Error of Our Ways • Kevlin Henney • GOTO 2016" on YouTube https://youtu.be/IiGXq3yY70o
fadinizjr@reddit
Oh how I envy you... It's still 9AM here.
Also, I have a whole application that it's "database" is running on Access. At least I do not support it.
TopHat84@reddit
BS. This whole thing reads way too coherently. This is either more AI generated slop or just a straight up fabrication.
It is too "story-esque".
Funkenzutzler@reddit (OP)
Appreciate the compliment, i guess?
Sadly, it’s all real. The request, the Excel macro hellscape, the multilingual confusion - even the missing coffee.
The only thing fabricated is my remaining patience.
h311m4n000@reddit
I'm sending you thoughts and prayers.
qejfjfiemd@reddit
No.
Outside-After@reddit
Don't over-extend on your level of responsibility. Getting yourself into something bespoke will only cause pain and tech debt for the future. Let them work it out.
TrueBoxOfPain@reddit
Please do the needful
-happycow-@reddit
you should probably vibecode this solution