Windows 11 25H2 Introduces User Interaction-Aware CPU Power Management
Posted by BrightCandle@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 94 comments
Posted by BrightCandle@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 94 comments
Peterianer@reddit
*closes laptop for a quick, 30 min nap
"Oh, the user has not interacted with the laptop for 5 minutes. I should make use of that time and start defragmenting the disk, running the search index, virus scanner and inform the mothership of all the latest user actions."
Cue jet engine noises starting on the couch table, followed by the laptop running out of battery
Thank you for coming to this detailed presentation of Microsoft® Windows© AI battery management™!
kuddlesworth9419@reddit
Do people still defrag their hard drives? I've not done it in over a decade.
yeeeew99@reddit
I don’t think there’s many hard drives left to defrag these days. They’re all SSD’s - which don’t need it.
kuddlesworth9419@reddit
If you don't need the capacity an SSD is really good but if you need anything with say 8TB+ HDD's are the best way to go. I can pick up a 28TB HDD for £327 at the moment.
FatalCakeIncident@reddit
Can you drop a link for that HDD? I've currently got that much on order from Amazon but as two 14s, and would quite like a single drive for that.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
As I keep telling people:
1tb fastest cost effectiveof most reliable make for boot and shit you're doing right now.
The rest is whatever is the best ban for buck prosumer HDD you can find.
shroudedwolf51@reddit
SSDs are used for the OS, applications, and games...but, there's no reason to not use a HDD for general storage. What advantage will your pirated films have when they are on a 14.4GB/s drive when they're just fine on a cheap 8TB HDD?
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Cheaper then a more expensive net plan to make that fast too.
Ancillas@reddit
I build SFF systems and don’t want the 3.5”, or even 2.5”, drives in my main computer. I can get two 4TB m.2 drives on a microATX board without running power and SATA cables. It’s amazing.
HDD’s only go in the NAS and even that uses SSDs for cache.
randomkidlol@reddit
SSDs need to run TRIM once in a while. windows has it scheduled using the same system as the auto defragger.
loczek531@reddit
No, but either wifi/Bluetooth/Ethernet adapter or some kind of hub (or event monitors connected) will cause the laptop to wake up so often that it makes sleep pointless
Yebi@reddit
People don't, because the OS does it automatically
Marctraider@reddit
"This approach aims to optimize energy consumption without compromising system responsiveness."
There is always a compromise.
DuhPai@reddit
Throwback to Windows 95 running faster when you jiggled the mouse
freedomisnotfreeufco@reddit
i felt something similar in VM , it wouldnt lag as long as you moved mouse lmao
And i literally see bigger power draw when i move mouse on wattmeter.
SohipX@reddit
There used to be a software that tricks windows 95/98 timers and make "Windows internal time" go much faster, so you don't have to wait for an intentionally 60 seconds load timer in most installed softwares just to show you an Advertisement and would actually finish in (5 seconds) instead.
I would love to have it back but I forgot what used to be called...
blarpie@reddit
Wasn't that just speed hack? Or you got it built in with some amd motherboards if you overclocked the cpu.
SohipX@reddit
Probably speed hack, it was made by third party software that I found online.
RampantAI@reddit
Windows 95 AI algorithms: Accelerate Input device
No_Balance_4525@reddit
Win11 uses LoI (Lack of Inteligence).
Demistr@reddit
Windows power savings and profiles are archaic. Having to manually go to options and change my power profile there every time I need to change between power and battery is just so clunky and impractical.
jones_supa@reddit
I do not see a problem. For each profile, there are different subsettings for "On battery" and "Plugged in". Or did I misunderstood what you mean?
Pub1ius@reddit
Yeah I have no idea what that guy's talking about. Maybe he thinks you have to go and manually choose "power saving" or "performance" from the dropdown every time you plug/unplug the laptop.
Sunsparc@reddit
There was at one point an app in the Windows Store that put a power options button in the tray that you could quickly switch between. It even had some automation logic, I had it set to change over to power saving when unplugged and then back to Performance when plugged in.
Not sure if it's still there or not.
Dr_Cunning_Linguist@reddit
Throttlestop can also be usdd like that to some degree with overclocking and undervolting
TenshiBR@reddit
Process Lasso
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Yeah, but I'm sticking with that until this feature's had a bit of real world refinement because it could be... irksome... until the kinks are worked out.
Beneficial_Common683@reddit
how about just get rid of the bloat microsuck ?
a12223344556677@reddit
I've been doing something similar with AutoPowerOptionsOK. I've set it up such that the power plan automatically switches to power saving after 10 minutes of no mouse/keyboard activity. Glad to see such a feature made official.
frozenbrains@reddit
That website is a nightmare, and with just a cursory look there's no way I'd trust anything downloaded from it.
LAUAR@reddit
Why? It's just old school. Also, it literally advertises VirusTotal results for all the downloads.
frozenbrains@reddit
As I said in my edit, it's different now. I don't know if it was temporarily compromised or what, but what I saw yesterday morning is not the same as what the site now contains.
fritosdoritos@reddit
That website loads 10x faster than a modern site while conveying the same amount of info.
teutorix_aleria@reddit
So you'd download a virus from a site with a nice CSS layout?
Aleblanco1987@reddit
it looks like old internet.
TenshiBR@reddit
Process Lasso
a12223344556677@reddit
This particular feature in Process Lasso is a paid feature, unfortunately.
Federal-Seaweed-987@reddit
Strange, I have been using it and I didn't pay
a12223344556677@reddit
Oh you're right, I thought it's "Power Plan Automation" when in fact it's "IdleSaver"
nandospc@reddit
I hope it comes with a toggle, but it's nice to have this feature though.
MaDpYrO@reddit
Can't wait to turn it off when it inevitably makes my machine laggy
Gold_Soil@reddit
Does anyone actually trust Microsoft not to bugger this up?
zuperdo@reddit
The article doesn't mention it, but I hope this is a setting that will be possible to turn off, otherwise this will cause a lot of program compatibility and scheduling issues.
jskeezy84@reddit
Took me forever to figure out how to mitigate this with audio software like Ableton. Can't wait for an update to force hours of tinkering again.
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
Agreed. We have always needed ways to switch Window's various power saving mechanisms off as so far they have always come with performance problems in scenarios Microsoft never accounted for. I do a lot of background video encoding and I have run into a bunch of algorithm and power saving issues with heterogenous core selection so I am not inviting adding clockspeed issues as well to the mix!
Jeep-Eep@reddit
There's probably some power user console BS to kill this crap.
No_Balance_4525@reddit
This does not solve the problem. A simple switch to throw out Microsoft's whims is NECESSARY here
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Not disagreeing.
LadySmith_TR@reddit
How does even hw react. Might crash the system. My 5yr old laptop was infamous for that…
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
That shouldn't happen, the CPU should work correctly in all its power modes but its also far more common than it should be and the amount of times the advice is "turn off C states" or put Windows into performance mode to work around the issues means it remains a problem lots of people have.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Big 'shouldn't' right there.
Malygos_Spellweaver@reddit
Wow, they didn't call it AI Power Management.
Thevisi0nary@reddit
The term has gotten so slopped out that the meta is now to leave it out lol
Jeep-Eep@reddit
The funniest thing is that this might be a task which real ML tech, not this LLM garbage that the MS leadership has fallen in love with might actually be rather useful...
AnotherSlowMoon@reddit
Exactly - with the amount of telemetry MS collects you'd think they'd be able to do some sort of useful ML analysis of it all and produce a new power tuning suggestions program.
Instead no, we're going to take a screenshot every 6 seconds and promise not to upload it to Azure
ParthProLegend@reddit
As long as she keeps her promise and not upload those videos of our intimate moments to her friend, I am with her.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Every time some idiot says AI will revolutionize the workplace and the world, I just look at how MS is being run right now and laugh like a drain because the leadership are genAI true believers and addicts, and pushing that garbage down the chain... and boy, does it show with the grade of service these days.
DifferentiationBy@reddit
Data milking will continue until data collection increases. Rise and shine.
ashvy@reddit
Copilot Power Management
Malygos_Spellweaver@reddit
🤮 lol
__some__guy@reddit
They didn't want to draw attention to their new vibecode
TheHodgePodge@reddit
As long as it doesn't replace older power plans like they did with context menu and many others, it shouldn't be a problem. But it's microsh*t, they can't be trusted.
SceneNo1367@reddit
Perfect to cheat on laptop reviews.
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
This seems like a somewhat bizarre change. It could save energy when the laptop really isn't in use in which case its windows and badly behaved background tasks that are consuming power and lowering the energy of operations makes some sense. But if I leave the machine doing a video encode we really don't want Windows choosing to make it take longer. User interaction is not sufficient as a marker for necessary higher power work.
No_Balance_4525@reddit
I don't need this. If it can't be turned off, I'll remove Windows from my laptop
kyp-d@reddit
They clearly had that in mind, but will it work properly ?
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
I had a 13700k before it did the Intel death and whenever I did a video encode if the Window for Handbrake was active it would use the P + E cores but the moment I clicked away from the Window it would move to just using the E cores, regardless of use of anything else. Admittedly this I think is more Intels algorithm than Windows but it speaks to a very immature perspective of what an active user is and when resources are necessary for interaction performance.
jones_supa@reddit
The P/E cores are annoying. They were not a good idea in my opinion. Better to just get an AMD machine if getting a new computer.
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
I think its probably the future. A machine with E cores is going to have more theoretical compute performance as you can get and power more of them. The ideal P core count is the thing that is really interesting as there will likely be multiple different primary parts of a program based on Amdahl's law in action at once especially in games.
But the scheduling is not ready for it in Windows.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
This is why I am sticking with manual power profile settings when running under Windows until this has had some real world use influenced refinements.
Dalcoy_96@reddit
Literally in the article you linked:
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Designed and real world perf are two different things, and they can diverge dramatically.
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
Gaming and video playback are going to be considered user interaction and it really depends what they mean by computation and what the marker is for whether they think its background or not. For example on a 13700k going handbrake the encode would move to the E cores only if you just clicked away from handbrake, which presumably would be enough for it to power save in this instance.
Windows doesn't have a good model for what the users priorities are nor what is background.
FlukyS@reddit
It makes sense but just not on Windows in a way, like on Linux we have this kind of feature for a while but there is a lot of junk on Windows that make it more annoying to automatically profile things.
No_Balance_4525@reddit
If it can be easily turned off then ok, let people who need buggy Microsoft tools to use there.
nuttageyo@reddit
That thumbnail is ass
NorthSideScrambler@reddit
What, are you saying that you don't keep your GPU next to your mouse on your desk?
Dark_ShadowMD@reddit
I can totally see the whole new world of bugs with this new feature.
Systems stuck on sleep mode, cores not parking, cores not being enabled, bluescreens...
And no, I like the feature, it's just I don't trust Microsoft monkeys to code anyting right...
-protonsandneutrons-@reddit
I assume this is the interval between the last user interaction and sleep mode starting, e.g., the last 59 seconds of a 1 minute sleep setting. That sounds good.
The execution is always the concern with Microsoft, with so many HW & SW permutations: how soon it triggers, how long it takes to resume, how third-party software reacts to quick bursts of power save (used as a "set it and forget" toggle for most), execution by OEMs (e.g., is your power save mode even that efficient?), etc.
Odd_Cauliflower_8004@reddit
On a laptop, no matter what activity you are doing in the background while you watch a movie, it's never going to be less power expensive to lock the cpu at a lower frequency while you watch the movie vs letting it go to max freq for half or even a third of the time power- scales to the square of the frequency. Race to sleep is a big lie and i really hate it
notam00se@reddit
Intel was so proud of their low power tile on Meteor Lake. 2 eCPU cores, network, media engine. Could power off the rest of the CPU while streaming.
In reality Windows has so much background processes going that it could never activate the single tile mode.
BrightCandle@reddit (OP)
They also never really made the scheduler actually work with it either. These sorts of solutions would save a tonne of power but Microsoft just doesn't care anymore its not following along with the advancements in hardware any more and making their operating system better by utilising them.
jones_supa@reddit
Yea but there is the benefit that (when not watching video) idle tasks (such as the Windows daily maintenance tasks which start after 4 minutes of idle) or other scheduled tasks do not make the fan blast at full speed. More relaxing.
reps_up@reddit
Reminds me of Radeon Chill
AlphaFlySwatter@reddit
How about they introduce a user interaction aware board of directors first?
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
They'll find a way to fuck it up. It's Microsoft. They're terrible at software.
aminorityofone@reddit
On a side note, there have been a lot of discussions about AI lately (mostly boycotting) and in this article there is an AI generated image. Nobody said anything about it.
F9-0021@reddit
Sure would be nice of them to make 24H2 usable before switching to working on 25H2.
Ok_Sorbet3974@reddit
Works on my machine.
Wicked860@reddit
A solution for a problem that never existed...
FlukyS@reddit
This has been a thing for a while on Linux with the eBPF based sched_ext project, it is really interesting to see the various options for schedulers that people are coming up with. The good part about how Linux handles it is it could go beyond even the base OS level "turn on performance mode and forget about it" since the Linux one is basically just some code running in the background it could be customised specifically for features of a processor by the vendor themselves if they wanted.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
I like that MS might finally be starting to fix hardware management on windows somewhat, but I am manually disabling this feature until it's had a good few rounds of refinement.
FlukyS@reddit
Well this isn't really so much "fixing" it just making sure the correct profile is loaded at the correct time, I wouldn't hold my breath on them actually changing dramatically the lower level of Windows that manages this because they haven't touched this meaningfully since the 90s. Actually it sounds like eBPF is being considered in Windows as an option and if they just lift it they could actually meaningfully address more things like this in userspace or even giving options for anti-cheat developers to use beyond actually being in ring0 if they actually do it. If I were them I'd be doing that as the approach instead.
OutrageousAccess7@reddit
bugs and crash, bsod are gladly w3lcom3d. Hahaha.