Can a model be so radically altered that its origin can no longer be recognized? YES!
Posted by Sicarius_The_First@reddit | LocalLLaMA | View on Reddit | 30 comments
Phi-lthy4( https://huggingface.co/SicariusSicariiStuff/Phi-lthy4 ) has been consistently described as exceptionally unique by all who have tested it, almost devoid of SLOP, and it is now widely regarded as the most unique roleplay model available. It underwent an intensive continued pretraining (CPT) phase, extensive supervised fine-tuning (SFT) on high-quality organic datasets, and leveraged advanced techniques including model merging, parameter pruning, and upscaling. The model was trained using AXOLOTL :slight_smile:
Interestingly, this distinctiveness was validated in a recent paper: Gradient-Based Model Fingerprinting for LLM Similarity Detection and Family Classification. Among a wide array of models tested, this one stood out as unclassifiable by traditional architecture-based fingerprinting—highlighting the extent of its architectural deviation. This was the result of deep structural modification: not just fine-tuning, but full-layer re-architecture, aggressive parameter pruning, and fusion with unrelated models.
santovalentino@reddit
This model is very weird. Am I doing something wrong? I followed the settings. It's just mean. It was kind of fun to argue with it for a minute but it seems like a regular model with the temp up
Qual_@reddit
"Can a model be so radically altered that its origin can no longer be recognized?" You should see my first loras attempts with unsloth back in the day huehuehue
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
hehe do share! i love interesting models.
all assistant models are pretty much the same, its nice to have unique stuff.
StyMaar@reddit
If you mess up fine tuning, the result will be hard to relate to the original model, just because it will be completely broken.
IrisColt@reddit
🤣
Competitive_Ad_5515@reddit
What's the context?
-p-e-w-@reddit
Are you an author of that paper, or was this evaluated independently?
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
Great question, and an important one.
No, I am not the author of the paper, only of the model.
This was indeed evaluated independently.
The authors of the paper are Zehao Wu, Yanjie Zhao, Haoyu Wang from Huazhong University of Science and Technology, Wuhan, China.
latestagecapitalist@reddit
That reads exactly like an AI response from one of the current cohort of models
o5mfiHTNsH748KVq@reddit
I think a lot of people use these models for what’s effectively google translate. If there’s a human behind the obvious AI text, I tend to cut them some slack.
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
It's even worse on "news sites".
Lots of usage of 'Delve' etc..
yuicebox@reddit
You’ve hit the nail on the head! This touches on one of the critical concepts of AI slop detection!Â
Legitimate-Topic-207@reddit
One of those concepts being the hubris of humans who evaluate AI authenticity by superficial stylistic markers like excessive bolding as opposed to genuinely differentiating factors like, say, originality and clarity of thought.
yuicebox@reddit
Hubris, part two.
ElectronSpiderwort@reddit
Qwen in particular wants to bold everything 🤖 🚀
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
I assume u mean Qwen3, it was likely distilled from Gemini 2.5 Pro, same as DSV3 (the new one).
My issue with Gemini, is that it likes to use italics, and cannot stop itself of doing so, even when prompted not to. We can see this behavior in both DSV3 and the new Qwen3.
llmentry@reddit
What a nuanced and insightful observation ...
screams
I guess it would be such a simple task to use an agent to respond to Reddit comments automatically.
IrisColt@reddit
Thanks for the model!!!
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
You're welcome :)
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
Fair question.
No, I am not the author of the paper, the authors are Zehao Wu, Yanjie Zhao, Haoyu Wang from Huazhong University of Science and Technology, Wuhan, China.
So yes, this was indeed evaluated independently :)
HunterVacui@reddit
Can you give me an example of "SLOP"? Like, specific responses that other AI might generate, that a "slop-free" model would not?
Given that you unironocally used the phrase "Good question. And an important one." in one of your replies, I feel like you and I may have vastly different definitions of slop
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
You can see plenty of examples in the dictionary of SLOP_Detector:
https://github.com/SicariusSicariiStuff/SLOP_Detector/blob/main/SLOP.yml
Gravionne@reddit
Wow, this looks very promising for my use case (ERP), I guess I'll give it a spin.. Been tired of my previous 12B model that frequently spits out slop words like it was nothing xD
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
Oh, it would do quite well for this use case I believe. Let me know if the writing is 'different' :)
nashtashastpier@reddit
Cool project, will try it! Can i ask you the amount of data you used for continuous pretraining and also for SFT?
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
yes, over 1B for each, it was on and off training, more details in the model card.
Dangerous_Fix_5526@reddit
Excellent work. ;
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
Thank you!
Monkey_1505@reddit
Pretty hard sell there mate.
Sicarius_The_First@reddit (OP)
The detection method used was TensorGuard, a gradient-based fingerprinting framework specifically designed for LLM similarity detection and family classification.