MSPs: How do you handle clients that want to source their own hardware?
Posted by Severin_@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 44 comments
Do other MSPs just categorically not allow this and refuse to support organisations that do this, thereby potentially risking missing out on perfectly good repeat business?
I'm running into this issue more and more with existing clients and new clients, where there's some internal shadow IT cabal of one or maybe a few senior people who just either sneakily purchase sh*t with zero notice and then surprise us at the worst possible time with requests to setup/configure their new hardware OR clients that are openly adamant about sourcing things themselves despite it not being cheaper compared to us sourcing hardware for them and these clients not knowing how to order even a basic laptop correctly (e.g. forgetting to add a 3-year on-site warranty, forgetting to check compatibility with a dock, forgetting to make sure Windows Pro edition is included, stupid fanboy preferences for specific brands/models, choosing ridiculously excessive specs for mundane roles and use cases, etc).
In my experience, having clients handle hardware procurement internally never, ever seems to work out in anyone's best interest and yet a lot of them insist on doing it because of their stubborn, petty, egocentric need to control everything despite apparently paying us good money to delegate everything IT-related to an MSP so they don't have to worry about it.
Have any other MSPs managed to completely put an end to this behaviour with their client base and if so, how?
Forsaken-Discount154@reddit
It honestly surprises me when a vendor tries to tell a company what tech stack they have to use, and calls anything else "shadow IT." Unless that’s spelled out in the contract, the company can, and should, use whatever tools work best for them.
As a service provider, your job is to give good advice, lay out the pros and cons, help them make an informed choice, and explain what that choice means in practice. Once they decide, you document it, support the stack they picked, and charge accordingly.
Approaching it this way builds trust and avoids the drama that gives MSPs a bad name. At the end of the day, you’re there to help them succeed, not to run their business for them.
Significant-Belt8516@reddit
I think what OP is alluding to is someone who buys a pentium processor with 8gb ram and a platter based drive for $400 at costco because of a "sale" . The type of hardware that would have been out of spec 5 years ago at any regular enterprise (with windows 11 home as a cherry on top) .
These people are a major time sink because you have to advise them and if the MSP salesperson has the backbone of a cuttlefish, which they almost all do, support the crappy hardware anyway.
I've seen this personally in the bad old days of MSP work.
Forsaken-Discount154@reddit
I have never worked for an MSP so I tend to think of it as a vendor trying to tell me what stack i have to use,,,, that vendor would go away. From what i understand, the MSP would bill by the hour, and if this is the case, does it matter if it is a time sync?
Significant-Belt8516@reddit
Out of scope hardware setup is a project. Hardware that is out of warranty due to being a costco "deal" is out of scope. OS upgrades are a project. It stops very quickly when they start getting reasonable bills for their malfeasance.
Severin_@reddit (OP)
That's the thing though, some of them are perfectly happy for us to bill them for every little request related to setting up new hardware they've purchased even down to coming out on-site to connect some new monitors and docking stations together.
Cost sometimes doesn't seem to be any barrier to this behaviour for some clients.
Next_Information_933@reddit
Then who cares, you stay busy and make money. It is extra revenue.
Severin_@reddit (OP)
Dude, I can make 5 times the money in billable hours doing important, planned work remotely compared to the time wasted driving out to a client site to literally plug in some sh*t. It's just not an efficient use of time/resources. This is very backwater, bush league, one-man band operator thinking, not something a professional MSP should engaging in.
Significant-Belt8516@reddit
The place I used to work at had a guy named Caleb. He excelled in nothing and took a lot of time. They didn't pay him much of anything. You need a caleb for this type of client if you want to continue to engage them.
If you're L2/L3/Admin you shouldn't be screwing with this stuff. If you're solo IDK what to tell you except make them wait until you don't have anything else to do and raise the rate for adhoc work.
throwaway56435413185@reddit
Lmao. Your take is that of a hot shot know it all that doesn’t know how to actually run a business. Your problem is you don’t know how to delegate, but I suspect it’s deeper than that. I suspect you will claim it hard to find good talent, but in reality no one actually wants to work with you.
Next_Information_933@reddit
Lol if you can make 5x doing different planned work billed at a lower rate, you aren’t charging correctly. An hour of drive time? Bill it. Setup and configuration? Bill it. Mileage? Bill it. Bill it at a higher rate too due to the unplanned nature. I worked for major MSPs in very large metros. If one customer needing a couple hours of work shuts down your operation, you are the small fish and you don’t know how to scale.
Cavm335i@reddit
Sounds like you need to hire someone to do the busy work
Brett707@reddit
You have two choices support the equipment they purchase, or fire them as clients.
WartimeFriction@reddit
Or, third option.. Charge them more for your time. Clearly if supporting what they want is a waste of time, then the time isn't being charged enough.
Don't do it if you're going to cry about it, or do it and make it worth your while. As IT and especially as an MSP, advocate for your clients, advise them the best you can, and if they want to go against the stream then be honest and upfront about cost, and either suck it up and do it or drop them and move on.
Last, if you don't have an agreement that the customer uses a certain stack or set of stacks that you can adequately support, that's a you problem.
fanofreddit-@reddit
Ya what’s up with this attitude? These clients are customers. Obviously these businesses allowing their end users to purchase whatever they want is not a good idea for a million reasons. But I’d tell the MSP to go pound sand if they think they’re going to dictate how I’m going to run my business. Juts bill properly period.
Forsaken-Discount154@reddit
That third option is just Brett707's first option in more words and fluff..
RaNdomMSPPro@reddit
No problemo. Here are the specs. You own all warranty and order related nonsense since we aren’t doing the purchase. Here is the setup cost. Let us know when it arrives.
Stryker1-1@reddit
We do the same, here are the specs we require, if it doesn't meet our specs we won't support it. They are also responsible for all warranty work and a loaner PC will be an extra charge.
If they want us to handle anything with warranty or upgrades or if they get something stupid like an i3 with 4gb ram it's on them
i0datamonster@reddit
Your job is to support the client. If they want to take things off your plate, awesome! If they want to make poor decisions with more billable hours, awesome!
Severin_@reddit (OP)
Not all billable hours are created equal. There's good billable hours and bad billable hours.
Interruptions like "hey, I just bought 10 new laptops today, I need them setup NOW" when you're in the middle of far more important, major projects/outages/planned work are not conducive to a well-organised, healthy workload for us.
The worst part of this problem is that ALL of this can be so easily avoided by simply keep IT informed and in the loop when it comes to sourcing new hardware. I wouldn't care so much if clients sourced new hardware but gave us timeframes as to delivery and required deadlines for deployment but they can't even be bothered doing that most of the time.
In my opinion, it's not an efficient use of time/resources to play catch-up setting up clients' surprise purchases and this shadow IT mentality is not behaviour that should be encouraged with clients, that's my main issue with it. It just breeds a lack of coordination and respect that makes MSPs work so much more needlessly difficult.
darthgeek@reddit
What a pushover you are. Your problems are largely of your own making. That's incredibly obvious here.
bbqwatermelon@reddit
Interested to know the strategy as having worked at an MSP that allowed best buy specials and forced instant response to onboarding them automatically taking an hour or more of unplanned time from important tasks and requiring a credit card for the inevitable upgrade from windows home on bush league hardware.
Severin_@reddit (OP)
Finally... someone who gets it.
The pointless busy work and constant, massive interruptions that these kind of requests generate, when all of it could SO easily avoided if they just let their MSP handle everything, is the biggest issue I have with clients trying to be clever and ordering hardware themselves. I wouldn't trust half of my clients to buy a decent toaster let alone any IT hardware.
Everyone seems to have this "all work is good work" mentality which makes no sense to me. It's like tolerating constant outages so you can do lots of little break-fix tickets instead of fixing the actual cause... the amount of time spent on these pain-in-the-ass requests could SO much better spent on major income from serious planned work/projects/finding new clients, etc.
darthgeek@reddit
Charge more and hire people to do this then? Or just have it in your contract that you won't support it. You're letting the customer dictate what you do. If you say you make 5x by doing other stuff, it sounds like you need to up your prices. Or keep complaining. Your choice, really.
rcade2@reddit
If you can pick and choose 100% of your clients and your behavior, you have found the holy grail.
dean771@reddit
Dont care where it comes from, they pay a provisioning fee and any warrantee claims are clients problem
rcade2@reddit
How do you make anything not your problem? Everything is always ultimately our problem, is what I've learned in 30 years in IT.
dean771@reddit
Usually true, never been an issue for us with hardware we didn't sell for some reason, We dont push back if customers want to source their hardware but advise we wont be able to handle the warranty and its never been an issue
techw1z@reddit
I usually select the best/cheapest options for them, charge hourly for that and ask them to order it themself so I don't have to deal with warranty potential returns.
I'm selling services and hours, not hardware.
Most-Importance-1646@reddit
As an MSP you make most of your money from SLA/Licences and labour. Let them buy whatever they want, just charge them for everything you do to integrate the hardware into their system.
If you're in house IT you definitely want to standardise, but I think that's more of a political than IT issue.
HowdyBallBag@reddit
This is bad advice.
Thisnisnt a money issue, its a standards issue. Most timr a customer will cheap out with under specd machines or windows home.
You should advise the customer on the hw to buy, that's what they are paying you for.
We never have the issue as we will price match.
Pln-y@reddit
We simply don’t care if you want work on own hardware. We have policy where we don’t allow to install any company software on it if you want work on private you can use Citrix, sorry now avd
cammontenger@reddit
You need someone from your MSP, ideally a team lead or whatever you call their point-of-contact at your company to give them a list of recommended specs. And include what it would cost for them to go through your MSP to procure your suggested hardware. Then when they compare costs of buying their own vs through you, provided your prices are competitive, they'll realize it's more cost-efficient to go through you rather than buy PC's with Windows Home licenses and deal with all the headaches.
Most of the time, they're saving like $150 per PC initially but then they also need $200 for a Windows Pro license and that right there is enough to convince them. Then you tack on workgroup issues (provided they have a domain) and they won't look back
Fast-Mathematician-1@reddit
I know I'm. Not the target audience for this one. But I've never met an MSP that actually delivered on a written contract.
I got into a genuine meeting for department heads to argue the definitions of specific language to the point of having to bring in contract lawyers into it.
Overcharge and underdeveloped. Keep them coming back, this is the MSP way.
digitaltransmutation@reddit
We can provide a checklist and knowledgebase but they will always fuck it up. If they do it right it will be autopilot or in the apple business manager and its nbd. If they do it wrong then we have to hold their hand then we bill the time out of scope.
The clients who do this repeatedly are the sort who will see your carefully annotated document or even a video tutorial and then waffle on the issue for 3 weeks before calling to ask for a tech to onboard it for them.
Craptcha@reddit
Define minimum requirements (brand, models, config, warranty, etc) then charge a setup fee
Severin_@reddit (OP)
You're expecting way too much of clients if you think they can even understand your minimum requirements let alone consistently adhere to them. That's precisely why they have MSPs because no one in-house is actually tech-literate. The best you'll get is maybe a client being able to stick to the same brand for their device fleet but even that can be a stretch for a lot of them.
harrywwc@reddit
from the other side of the fence ($job--) it's sometimes mandated by the 'senior management' (CEO) that people get to choose their own hardware. When I first started with that org (an NFP), the CEO was trying to introduce some standardisation, but received a lot of push-back, so much so that I think it may have been one of the reasons (among many) he didn't renew his contract and stepped down.
I (as "IT Manager" - just me, so 'manager of who' I wondered often) also tried to implement a "let's buy kit via our MSP and let them deal with all the carp that goes with that" and that was shot down as well. "we've always done it <this> way".
I was at least able to force some level of consistency in the operating system and software products - although even that was over-ridden by the (new) CEO.
I gave up and moved on, not that I was planning to stay until retirement. but I did get some major projects through and was able to halve their annual IT budget while improving service / capability - it's amazing how costly a '20^(th) Century' IT environment is compared to how to do things in the 21^(st) Century.
Craptcha@reddit
Letting end users buy their own hardware is stupid, unless you’re fully embracing BYOD and not supporting those devices directly.
You end up with an heterogenous mix and march of different hardware brands, models and manufacturer warranties. That’s pretty much impossible to support effectively unless your policy is “just buy another computer” anytime something goes wrong.
Severin_@reddit (OP)
Fully agree and this is my other major issue with this behaviour.
You end up with a really sh*t fleet of hardware that is harder and more time-consuming to manage, less reliable and just causes unnecessary frustration for end users and the MSP alike.
harrywwc@reddit
I completely agree. and no, it wasn't a byod situation, it was a "the org will buy whatever it is you want (to a reasonable limit)".
fortunately (‽) no one had a Mac, all the devices were WinOS machines. But still, Surface Pro's (several models), a HP consumer lappie* or two (then purchase WinOS-Pro for extra), some Lenovo's of different models, a dell or two, and a few others I can't remember (it's over 5 years now).
a real dog's breakfast.
* the CEO demanded one of these as it had 'gold' trim and looked 'up market'
PsychoGoatSlapper@reddit
In some circumstances I would encourage it. Dell are well known as backstabbing bastards and will try to deal direct if they can, so if the client is large enough then providing advice for specs then letting them go ham on their Dell account manager.
Additionally Levovo has had some killer direct pricing that recently beats MSP pricing from Ingram for comparative spec'ed devices. In those cases them purchasing directly, provided they don't mind the lead times is simply keeping your clients best interest top of mind.
Unless you have standardised kit, I have found you can waste a significant time building and providing quotes,not counting the follow up and associated paper work.
Unless you are making decent markup or providing a much better service to your client then what is the point?
Minimum_Sell3478@reddit
Just say if you source you’r own hardware it’s up to you to see that it meets the needs of the company and say a company laptop needs 3 years warranty and windows pro. If these are not met then just charge them for a pro license and if the laptop breaks after 2 years and only one year warranty just tell them yeah that sucks here is a price for a replacement that has all the stuff company needs.
And if these client has a brand ie dell then they’ll the client if they come in with ie a Lenovo say to the affect like hmm this is not a brand the company supports so if it’s something hardware or software related issues it might take more time to diagnose and that means that if a issue arises then you will not be able to use the device during the time we need to diagnos and fix the issue.
If these client just shadow drops a pc to be setup tell them that you will get to it as soon as possible but that you are swamped with other stuff at this time.
Next time put in a ticket so we can try and put some time aside for that job.
awit7317@reddit
One of the more difficult concepts to grasp is letting your client do dumb things. That being said, whilst dumb is subjective, the MSP is typically correct.
We typically don’t mind as long as they pay their services bill and don’t complain about a lack of warranty support in years 2 and 3 because they skipped that option.
TCPMSP@reddit
You need to train them by charging them. Hardware comes from us, no setup fee, hardware comes from you $500 set up fee.