We already have one | TheaterFire

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NoWordForHero21@reddit

Even if I disagreed with it’s platform, I support a functional, competitive and disruptive third party. The duopoly has become a barricade.

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Ill-Case-8969@reddit

Perhaps if we had rank choice voting or some other alternative to the first past the post system. It’s absurd that many American’s voices aren’t being heard.

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Beginning-Shoe-9133@reddit

Rank choice is not a saving grace. I wish I still remembered the name of this website I found but it absolutely annihilates rank choice voting.

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It isn’t perfect. But it’s a lot better than first past the post. Something else that doesn’t, almost out of necessity, stamp out everything besides the two major parties would be nice. Maybe it’s approval voting. Some change is necessary though.

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Beginning-Shoe-9133@reddit

"But it’s a lot better than first past the post."

As an ex supporter of ranked choice voting, I disagree. I dont find either of these types of voting systems to be viable.

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NeedToKnow100@reddit

First past the post necessarily creates a duopoly. Ranked choice voting does not. For that reason alone it’s better. What are the ways in which first past the post is better?

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Beginning-Shoe-9133@reddit

I dont remember.

I was heavily invested in this stuff years ago.

I would suggest you read more on in first before making an assumption.

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NeedToKnow100@reddit

So, you know/remember so little about it that you can’t even explain your reasoning? And you think that I’m the one who needs to read more before making an assumption? Do you think that I have not educated myself on this?

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Beginning-Shoe-9133@reddit

Do you remember every incremental detail of everything in life you've every learned? I consume copious amount s of information daily, I'm not a super genius where I can retain everything ive learned my whole life, especially information thats not important to me in my everyday life.

Between your obviously unreasonable expectations and your overly simplistic view of "duopoly should be enough reason" tells me YES, you're not well read on the topic and you should read more. Stop being lazy and find the answer yourself instead of having others do it for you.

Dont like? Too bad.

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SmashBoomStomp@reddit

“Uh I don’t remember my source, but read up on it more.” You’re an idiot lol.

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Beginning-Shoe-9133@reddit

Yea, I dont remember it from 8 years ago, fucking idiot.

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konsyr@reddit

Likely this? https://electionscience.org/education/approval-voting-vs-rcv

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SpareSimian@reddit

I like Approval Voting but there's also this one, AADV, that's sort of like up/down voting in social media:

https://reason.com/2024/07/05/the-end-of-the-voting-methods-debate/

https://news.lp.org/libertarians-should-advocate-aadv-not-irv-or-rcv/

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Beginning-Shoe-9133@reddit

I thought it was until I hit the link.

The one I read was a long form article, like 20 pages or so and I think had a tan background.

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NeedToKnow100@reddit

Plenty of libertarians that knew better still subscribed to this rationale (the “wasted vote” fallacy) in the last election and voted for Donald Trump it’s absolutely disgraceful.

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NoWordForHero21@reddit

Voting for a strategy to win and not voting for the result you want is ridiculous. Of course, I doubt the majority of the voters have any idea. They may as well be rooting for a football team.

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TJJ97@reddit

People are too dumb to understand the value of ranked choice voting. They also treat this shit like sports and just pick a team to support regardless of their beliefs. The sheer amount of “Republicans” I’ve met who after good conversation realize they’re actually far more aligned with Libertarian ideals is ABSURD. I’m ranked choice voting we’d see these people getting Libertarians into office, albeit at a small rate but still!

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Imaginary-Win9217@reddit

Tbh I've even seen Democrats crack under very little knowledge if libertarian ideals. Myself included.

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Amazing-Film-2825@reddit

Except it wouldnt work like that. It would only draw republican voters effectively doing what teddy did in 1912.

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jorsiem@reddit

If anyone can pull that shit off is this crazy mother fucker

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GoBeWithYourFamily@reddit

Agreed. If there was a major third party, I’d vote for it without regard to its policies.

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SpareSimian@reddit

Not just the LP. There's also the Greens, the Constitution Party, and a few others that regularly show up on the California ballot. In order to be on the ballot, a party has to maintain a 2% vote in some state-wide election. Otherwise, it has to go through an expensive signature drive.

Ballot access is horrible for a new party. Check out Ballot Access News to see how bad it is.

https://ballot-access.org/

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wildstolo@reddit

No we don't. And Elon Musk should have nothing to do with it either.

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Sadoul1214@reddit

Are you implying that the libertarian party represents the the middle 80%?

You’d be incredibly wrong if that is the case.

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LibertyorDeath2076@reddit

The party doesn't, but the goals of the party would allow more than 80% of people to do what they want without having to interact with the government. More than 80% of people would likely be better offunder a libertarian government.

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WaldoFrank@reddit

I don’t think the LP even represents 80% of libertarians.

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Sadoul1214@reddit

Watch some of the old libertarian primary presidential debates… there is no way to represent 80%. There is some wild people.

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Hot_Most5332@reddit

The libertarian party does not, but libertarian values at their core do. The problem is that libertarians gatekeep themselves because no one else is libertarian enough.

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PeterPorty@reddit

libertarians gatekeep themselves

Like 70% of this subreddit are straight up conservative authoritarian right wing statists who''ve never read a single libertarian author in their lives. The idea that libertarianism is somehow more pure than the other cesspools is laughable.

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BuggableInsect@reddit

Libertarianism and people who claim to be libertarians are not the same thing.

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PeterPorty@reddit

I suppose the same can be said about any ideology.

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BuggableInsect@reddit

Exactly. That's why it's important to differentiate between an ideology and people who use a label to refer to themselves.

Interesting historical side note, Ayn Rand refuse to let people who agreed with her philosophy of objectivism objectivists. She insisted that they refer to themselves as students of objectivism.

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PeterPorty@reddit

While I agree that in academic terms the difference is relevant and even fundamental, the actual use of the words in real life speech makes the terms interchangeable, IMO.

Christianism is better described by the general behavior of those that call themselves Christians rather than any sort of specific doctrine, and when people praise or complain about Christianism, I believe they're talking about the behavior of the group of people that align themselves with that tag.

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NeedToKnow100@reddit

Exactly. That doesn’t mean that everyone has to agree with the entirety of the libertarian platform. But the basic concepts of small government, personal freedom, and peace are truly what most Americans want. Is it 80%? I’m not sure. But I think it’s the majority.

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Hendo52@reddit

Healthcare is an example of something where the libertarian model has not provided a satisfactory answer, either philosophically or in terms of economics. Other nations have solved this problem for lower cost per citizen by using the scale and coercive capacity of the government.

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fukinuhhh@reddit

I'm not sure about that, you would be surprised at the amount of people who want safety nets paid for by taxes and are ok with that. Libertarian values are more popular than their representation in government suggests, but I wouldn't say 80% of the population levels of popular

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beaniebaby71@reddit

Exactly! The vast majority of people do support at least some libertarian ideas, whether they be fiscal or social ideas

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BodisBomas@reddit

And good thing we do. Or else all the fake libertarians (anyone not me) would take over the party /s

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sbrisbestpart41@reddit

This guy thinks he’s a real libertarian. Of course a real libertarian only supports medieval aristocracy themed anarcho capitalism.

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sbrisbestpart41@reddit

I’d still disagree. Classical liberalism which is the American Libertarian ideology is extremely unpopular. Libertarianism isnt supposed to be populist its supposed to be intellectual.

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robsyo@reddit

I’d say that a majority of Americans have libertarian ideals in that you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn’t affect others

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dp25x@reddit

I think you'd find most people would say, "That's EXACTLY what I believe, except when...". That last bit is where things go sideways.

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hamburgersocks@reddit

Yeah the true core of libertarianism is "fuck off" and I do believe most people want that.

But our loudest voices are anarchists, even though our most fundamental belief is being ignored and left alone. There's way too many right wingers that just don't want to be associated with the Republican party anymore that jump on board, and while it's not bad to have numbers and a voice... I do truly believe that most people are just politically agnostic enough to fit right in the middle with us.

But because of the loudmouths... everyone just thinks we're doomsday preppers or whatever.

We've always needed a strong third party. The right is only going more right and the left is following suit. Most people don't give a shit, we just want freedom and a living wage, and the people that hate other people are always going to be the loudest voice in the room.

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lurreal@reddit

Saying you want people to do whatever as long as it doesn't affect you sounds beautiful and easy. The actual reality when it comes down to it is I think most americans do NOT believe that.

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TheDroneZoneDome@reddit

Agreed. They say that but when it comes down to it, they don’t actually believe it.

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CommercialPea9770@reddit (OP)

It was a joke bro🙏🥀

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right_lane_kang@reddit

Far too Libertarians are antisemitic. One of many reasons no one takes you seriously.

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heywood-jablomi99@reddit

As compared to who? The Republican Party that gets on their knees with mouths open every time something happens to Israel? Or the Democratic Party that openly hates on over race when they don’t vote the way dems want them to? There are racial issues in every party I’m not sure that libertarians are at the top of that list.

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right_lane_kang@reddit

Sorry you're too thick to understand the concept of having allies. American hegemony is necessary whether or not you want to admit it.

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finetune137@reddit

Kek 🤡🌏

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aknockingmormon@reddit

No lol. Musk is not a libertarian. Hes having an Aspergers meltdown because the Trump admin is canceling the EV mandate and talking about cutting musks government contracts to cut federal costs. Hes grifting HARD right now to get back in the publics good graces because he no longer has the protection of the Trump Admin.

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Any-Web-7070@reddit

This is such a low IQ take. He's been advocating for removal of these subsidies for a long time, it would benefit Tesla because the competitions margins couldn't handle it. Additionally, if it was that serious he would have spent more than a quarter million dollars of Tesla money lobbying to keep the incentives LOL

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Temporary_Angle2392@reddit

I no longer believe Americans are smart enough that all should vote. My coworker told me he thought space isn’t real the other day. I want rank choice voting for elections, and only people with college degrees or businesses to vote.

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heywood-jablomi99@reddit

Mighty authoritarian of you.

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sunal135@reddit

I disagree that the LP represents 80% of the country. Most people claim they want a balanced budget, but when it comes to actual policy they are pro-spending.

Look at all the hare DOGE got, there were even politicians who claimed they were anti-waste but their offers to cut "properly" was reviewed to be a lie by their actions.

Most Americans are like my mother made at Trump for not putting forth a balanced budget (and ignoring this is a continuing resolution not an actual budget) but also made that people in the federal government are losing their jobs.

The majority of America has deminstrated they can't stomach the insignificant discretionary cuts. They are going to feat out when Medicare and Social Security are touched.

Another thing to consider is the amount of people (libertarians included) who think auditing the Pentagon will fix the budget when the reality is we could cut the DOD budget by 100% and not be able to filly cover the intrest on the debt.

Financial collapse is inevitable.

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sbrisbestpart41@reddit

No. This is a reaction against the MAGA movement. Even if Elon revived Ron Paul era ideas (which I doubt) it would be only half of what Ron Paul promised.

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BuggableInsect@reddit

I'd support something that moved in that direction

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The_Bigwrinkle@reddit

Based and Anti-Reactionary Pilled

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BuggableInsect@reddit

I think Elon is crazy enough to actually try this. He seems eager to throw his money at projects that push his worldview. He likes being involved.

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rainbowrecipes@reddit

Yes. Tbh a new one is the only realistic hope of disrupting the duopoly. The LP is considered a joke by most people and that reputation isn’t going anywhere. A fresh, new party with libertarian ideals would be a whole new ballgame. An opportunity to hit the ground running with the momentum of the current resentment towards the establishment. It would be opportunistic timing for the right person. Could be Elon….

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Minute-Performance67@reddit

Elon Musk is an authoritarian. Don't let his libertarian disguse fool you.

A real good candidate back then would have been John McAfee, but R.I.P to his soul

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casualchaos12@reddit

The amount of people in America who don't even know we have more than two political parties blows my mind. Poor little sheep

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CommercialPea9770@reddit (OP)

Technically we have mor than 2 but with how our system works it’s really only going to be the 2 main ones that helps no one aside from the small groups of ultra left and ultra right

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casualchaos12@reddit

It's incredible to me how many people bitch about this country but vote the exact same way every election cycle. Thats not how change happens folks. All the while screaming at the other side. They all look like assholes to me

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White_C4@reddit

Those "80%" have a wide range of varying beliefs from the social to economic to political sides. There's no way one political party can encompass all that.

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M3taBuster@reddit

No, we don't. Libertarianism is NOT centrism. We share some views with conservatives and others with liberals, but we are usually more radical than both of them are on those respective issues.

Libertarianism is a radical, consistent ideology. Cons and libs happen to line up with us on some things and not others, because THEY randomly pick and choose their stances on various issues without a logical, internally consistent ideological framework underpinning those choices.

Also, when most people speak of the "silent majority" of "centrists" or "moderates", they usually mean economically left-leaning and socially conservative. Which is more like the direct opposite of libertarianism.

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PestRetro@reddit

Conservative welfarism am I right? 😭

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PestRetro@reddit

bru, the libertarian party does not support 80%

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dp25x@reddit

How about several new parties that can compete to field the best platform while also making party-capture harder. Ideally, it would be as easy to move to a new party when the one you support now acts disgracefully as it is to choose a new grocery store when the one you go to now starts giving poor service.

All assuming you think participating in the nose-counting game is a productive way to achieve some goals, of course.

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canonical6@reddit

https://img.gifglobe.com/grabs/montypython/MontyPythonAndTheHolyGrail/gif/QXj7U7xetc7S.gif

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TangoLimaGolf@reddit

Do we really though? If you look at the candidates the LP runs year over year it’s marginal at best. Most are borderline Libertarians that choose the party because they can’t make any traction elsewhere.

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GovtInMyFillings@reddit

No. Musk is a snake.

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CommercialPea9770@reddit (OP)

Isnt the libertarian flag a snake

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zaabb62@reddit

Naw fam, it's a porcupine.

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CommercialPea9770@reddit (OP)

I meant the dont tread on me flag

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zaabb62@reddit

I mean, the Gadsden is how I feel, but the Uber alt right took it over, so i only fly the porcupine.

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ConscientiousPath@reddit

nah they don't get to have that for themselves.

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cadillacjack057@reddit

Kinda like the gays with the rainbows.

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parkway_parkway@reddit

80% of people want a new party.

But 20% want far left, 20% want left, 20% want right and 20% want far right.

So they all agree with the poll but then when you actually start the party most of them aren't interested.

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ReddtitsACesspool@reddit

No

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AldruhnHobo@reddit

Yes but the powers that be aren't ever going to allow that, not without something drastic happening.

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ArmyMedium8244@reddit

They are firmly in possession of both purse strings, and thanks to their rule requiring 5% of the electorate to get federal campaign funding, they will never be loosened for a third party.

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TJJ97@reddit

What a system. First past the post voting AND an arbitrary percentage of electorate required is devious, especially when you can all but guarantee they’d move the goalposts the moment a party made that happen

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ArmyMedium8244@reddit

It used to be lower than 5% (3%, I believe), but when Gary Johnson came deathly close to reaching that, they raised it the next year.

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TJJ97@reddit

Yeah, I thought that was the case but wasn’t confident enough to state it here. Fuck the government

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viking_@reddit

I think that Musk has the same interest in representing ordinary Americans as Trump does. That is, anything he says is only a vehicle to serve his own ambitions.

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CalligrapherOther510@reddit

I hate to be this guy, but instead of voting why don’t you guys try donating to the party first? Money is power.

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xrp10000@reddit

Unfortunately things will continue as usual. The right will dislike Musk and the left will begin to like him again.

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Frequent-One3549@reddit

Issue is, it'd just take away from republican numbers, and they're definitely better than dems. We'd need another leftist party to come into public consciousness at the same time.

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Moist_Transition325@reddit

We absolutely need another party! Or more! None of us fall on this side or that side all the way.

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mw66227@reddit

I'd say anyone who 100% agrees with anyone else is a non-thinker. We will never agree with everything. Human nature.

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azshalle@reddit

Or 100% disagrees out of spite

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Razbonez@reddit

yeah it’s called being a republic.

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momowagon@reddit

You might be overestimating the public outcry for legalized heroin and prostitution.

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Ichoosetoblame@reddit

So are we still getting our checks in the mail or what?

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Mr_Dookie_Monster@reddit

If you think he cares about our views you are deeply fooled and have an attention span of a 5 yr old doom scrolling on Tik tok. It's weird and annoying to see people getting so excited with a few of his posts today thinking he has a Libertarian approach s. Try to see big picture, it's not hard, he doesn't give a shit about any political party aside from one that benefits himself

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