Do drivers seem to just... not know how to act around ebikes for anyone else?
Posted by frost_wood@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 87 comments
I'm curious to know if this is an ebike thing, bike thing in general or just special to where I'm at (I live in oklahoma which is pretty hostile to bikes and pedestrians), but drivers seem to just not know what to do around me when I'm on the road. It's like they throw all caution to the wind for themselves and others because they desperately need to get around me.
I've had people cross double yellow lines to pass me with only a few inches to spare against oncoming traffic, pass me literally 20ft from a stop sign only to be forced to make their stop in the middle of the road as there's not enough room for them to get back into the lane. 2-way stops where I don't have the stop sign are the worst; As soon as they see me, doesn't matter if they make a full stop, roll it, or blatantly run it, as soon as they see me they HAVE to cut me off because god forbid they wait five seconds on me.
I don't know if it's a matter of I'm faster than they expect a bike to be, or just general hatred/disregard for cyclists. It's just kinda baffling. Anyways, just had to rant a bit after almost getting t-boned today!
Proxy345@reddit
Pro tip: Always assume that every driver on the road is a braindead zombie.
JBradG@reddit
Assume this with people in general anywhere… doesn’t matter if they are the card driver or the bike rider.
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
Oh definitely, I keep my distance and just expect them to run stop signs. My mistake today was assuming the driver that made a full stop at their stop sign when I didn't have one would stay stopped. I keep cruising and almost got hit
zacmobile@reddit
I made that mistake 2 weeks ago and I rolled over their hood 🤸. Bike is fine, the side of their bumper absorbed the impact I think, made an almighty crunch and left a huge dent. Radrunner FTW. 😎
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
Shit man! Glad you and the bike are in one piece. Thankfully my incident didn't get that close, they managed to slam their breaks in time. I've got a Radexpand and yeah those fat tires are beefy and can definitely take a hit. would rather it not tho 😐
times_zero@reddit
I mean, they pretty much are.
Human beings including myself still have the same brain as our ancestors. We weren't meant to drive 2+ ton machines that can travel 90+ MPH. The term car-brain perfectly describes what happens to the average person when they're behind the wheel.
phaukenay@reddit
I have driven a small sports car, a motorcycle, and bicycles most of my 70 years. You need the mindset that you are invisible and have no right of way.
Late_Duty_5745@reddit
Ebikes and scooters - I'm sorry, but they just don't work ANYWHERE. Road with cars - ridiculous. Sidewalks with pedestrians - oh, hell no. Bikepaths - oh, just go away, please.
bggdy9@reddit
Roads are 100% legal.
Late_Duty_5745@reddit
It's practically suicide.
bggdy9@reddit
No its not... its their only legal way.
InevitableMeh@reddit
It’s like anything else. Some drivers are whackos and some cyclists do everything they can to enrage drivers.
We have a lot of the Lance Armstrong guys that like to swing out and block traffic on roads here so people hate cyclists for that.
I ride motorcycles too and the open pipes crowd causes similar hate.
Watch videos from the UK and it’s totally different. I think it is our rat race competitive culture.
bggdy9@reddit
I ride the road cause that is the only legal place to ride my class 2 ebike..
InevitableMeh@reddit
Yeah I ride on the street too. What I was talking about are cyclists that obstruct traffic lanes rather than keeping right. It causes road rage.
bggdy9@reddit
That's how you are suppose to ride. You take the lane if the safest place is the lane or you get over but do not cross the white line.
Malkvth@reddit
UK e-biker and driver here — literally everything in this thread chimes with my experiences.
It’s the cars that pass me when I’m at the speed limit that are highest concern — because I’m already at a speed where a collision will fuk me up. They just really hate a bike ahead because you have to watch them constantly (as a driver, I can confirm this is an extra, unwanted distraction) — so better to have them behind you, safely in the rear view.
Add to that, most urban areas have all been made 20mp/h now, so it’s basically everywhere I ride.
I found keeping my extra powerful headlight on at all times throws incoming traffic off and they pull in even when I don’t have right of way (yes UK roads are narrow a lot of the place)
Nearby-Pizza-8823@reddit
I've had cars pass me in residential streets when I'm going the speed limit. They have it programed in their brain to think a person on a bike is always going to be slowing them down and just instinctively go around me.
bentnotbroken96@reddit
It's really simple:
Car-brain sees a bicycle. Car-brain thinks "I should be passing the bicycle"
Car-brain isn't looking at their speedometer.
I normally commute at PAS3 (14MPH), and cars behave normally... but if I'm late and use PAS5 (20MPH, which is the legal max in my state) they pass me going 40-45MPH instead of 30-35.
ExtremeProfession113@reddit
It really is wild isn’t it? Roads I’ve driven on often at the speed limit (one lane each way, often mildly busy business district), never passed once in my car. On a bike, taking the lane, riding at or slightly over the speed limit and I’ve been past many times. One thing that convinced me to finally get a 360 camera…
cheesepage@reddit
Commuted to work for decades in NY and NO.
They probably greatly underestimate your speed. There is a mental block here.
If you are moving at the speed of traffic, not losing ground to the vehicle in front of the entire lane is yours. Ride in the middle.
This is easier to do on an e bike than a manual. Ride in the middle of the lane. Act like a car. Signal. Stop. Pull away smartly from the light. Pay attention, make eye contact.
You are not impeding traffic. You are traffic.
This normalizes your behavior to car drivers, is the legal standard in most states, and protects you from the most common bike car accident: the right hook. (Car makes a right turn in front or into a cyclist because they don't see them and expect the bike to be miles behind because the are CAR!)
Some locals require bikes to use bike lanes if they are provided, but you have a legal case if the bike lane can be shown to be hazardous.
If you can't maintain this speed or level of assertion then you should ride to the side, and pick up what crumbs you may.
ExtremeProfession113@reddit
Spot on advice.
When I’m out for a casual ride on my bike, I’m usually fine in a bike lane… when I’m commuting on my e-bike on bombing along on my bike in traffic I won’t go near poorly maintained gutters. Nothing like a clear road and an adjacent bike “lane” full of debris.
GeoWard2@reddit
The answer to your question is YES, most drivers are oblivious to ebikers.
Therefore: . Wear a helmet . Keep lights on, front / rear, when biking . Use rear-view mirrors (2) . Take the lane when you must
Now hit the road and enjoy.
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
I definitely have tried to make myself as visible as possible with custom reflective vinyl stickers on my bike and helmet, and a bright white armored jacket
Stunning-Date2526@reddit
Drivers simply don't see E-Bikes , bicycles, mopeds, motorcycles or anything that doesn't have 4 wheels. You have to anticipate that they aren't paying attention to you when on the streets even when you're in the bike lane. On roads that dont have a bike lane or the bike lane isn't wide enough I take a whole lane to myself. I know irritates some drivers who are in a hurry , but at least they see me a I have less of a chance of being cut off. They always end up changing lanes and passing me anyway .
cdizzle99@reddit
What is the speed limit on the road
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
Roads Im on are between 20-35mph. I dont feel comfortable going on anything higher
LessthanaPerson@reddit
I’ve had the same experience. I will either be going the speed limit (20-30 mph) on a road or at the very least 2 miles above or below it and a car will almost cut me or others off trying to get ahead of me. I had one nearly drive into the curb on a narrow street trying to get around. It’s madness. I’m going about as fast as they would be anyway.
GlossyGecko@reddit
Nope, everybody treats the speed limit as if it were the minimum acceptable speed, 10 over as the actual limit, 30 if cops don’t monitor the area closely.
LessthanaPerson@reddit
Fair enough. There are two roads that are on my usual route to work. The first has a 30mph speed limit and broken up bike lanes. I usually go slower in the bike lane and then speed up to 28-30 for the street or two between where the last one ended and where the next begins. That 30 seconds feels like an overreaction for a street that has stop signs and traffic lights every two feet.
The second has a 25 mph limit that then goes down to 20 mph because it's a heavily populated tourist area in the middle of downtown. I don't usually have an issue there because all the pedestrians make the traffic stop and go slow.
Exciting_Turn_9559@reddit
I get annoyed at 4 way stops because drivers think the rules of the road don't apply because I am there and they are always waving me through. This puts everyone using the intersection at risk.
Just go when it's your turn dammit. If you can do it for motorcycles you can do it for ebikes.
Festernd@reddit
been riding motorcycles my entire life -- most of the car drivers don't know how to behave around motorcycles either.
Exciting_Turn_9559@reddit
I suspected that might be the case.
drmike0099@reddit
Don’t be nice, be predictable. Cars do this to cars around me and it drives me nuts.
provvv@reddit
Agree. So many accidents in general occur bc people are trying to be polite rather than follow traffic laws. Like don’t stop at a green light and wave a pedestrian through bc not everyone else is going to stop.
alvisminer@reddit
I had someone stop and try to wave me into a roundabout once
Objective-Yam3839@reddit
True in so many situations. I don’t need your help. Just follow the traffic laws.
Exciting_Turn_9559@reddit
Exactly. I can clear an intersection just as fast as anyone else can.
DiggingforPoon@reddit
for many automotive drivers, e-bikes do not make sense to them. In their mind, they are slow, plodding vehicles like a child on a bicycle, but in reality, they accelerate faster than their car and that means they are scared of them.
Not justifying it, or excusing it, but for many, they are scared and want to get away. Which to me, is like Great Dane's that are scared of chihuahua's, you just want to stare and say "Really?"
Virtual-Product2298@reddit
I'm sorry but no one is scared of an e-bike 😭
VoltasPigPile@reddit
I'm sorry, but lots of people are afraid that they're going to run over someone on an ebike who cuts them off, or that they're going to be run over by someone who shouldn't be riding on a sidewalk at all who is going 30mph while staring at their phone.
It's similar to how any time I tell someone that I can't legally fly my drone above a certain when I'm near an airport, people always point out that a 747 would vaporize a little plastic drone like it didn't exist, but if that drone got sucked into one of the jet engines during takeoff and landings, that would be a very different story.
kmsilent@reddit
Scared? Why would they be scared?
I think the simple answer here is just that ebikes are pretty new, and it takes a lot of time for everyone to adapt to any new mode of transport.
The rules are unclear, the road markings are often unclear, and each rider rides differently (sidewalk/bike lane/ regular lane) and often they move between these various modes. Not only that, it's not always obvious if a bike is an ebike at all- ie a driver doesn't know exactly what pace they can consistently travel at, and where they should be expecting them to go.
Lastly, a LOT of ebike riders where I am are kids, so everyone is somewhat worried that they're gonna do something wild (like take an unexpected turn) and the driver is going to hit them.
NewYearNewAccount165@reddit
Kids without drivers license or little experience on the road if they do are then expected to share the road and read people’s minds. People already suck at driving so it’s worse when a cyclist doesn’t have the experience to anticipate possible outcomes.
It’s like teaching young kids to cross the street vs just expecting them to know what to do.
There should be defensive cycling certs just like you can take defensive driving and riding (motorcycles).
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
Yeah my bike has a throttle (I've got a radexpand 5) and man you gotta be careful with that thing, it will shoot you forward so quickly. The great dane afraid of a chihuahua metaphor is really fitting lol, I'll have to keep that in mind when cars are being weird around me
hysys_whisperer@reddit
Dude, you're also in Oklahoma.
It's a little different in Tulsa because of the Tulsa Tough, but everywhere else, people actively harass and try to get cyclists to crash.
It's pretty bad.
DiggingforPoon@reddit
That is insane.
I mean, actively trying to crash people in an Constitutional Carry state is crazy
hysys_whisperer@reddit
They believe 2 things here. A, you have to be a "soyboy" to cycle, and B, exactly zero soyboys pack heat.
They're wrong on both accounts, but that's what they believe and they act accordingly.
DiggingforPoon@reddit
Wow, OK, SoCal here, but used to live in Delaware in the aughts and the EDC for the cyclists there was insane. I am talking 19's, P226's, a few XD's, some M&P's, all quality gear that they treated like their cycling gear. It was modified and maintained in the top condition.
People who spend thousands on a frame tend to buy quality gear all over (certain e-bikers tend to fall in this category).
Alternative_Dare_901@reddit
If you don't maintain stuff, you're likely to have a catastrophic failure. This especially goes for bikes, firearms, and many other things.
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
Yo fellow Okie. I'm in edmond which is just... weird. I see a bikes pretty often, a few fellow ebikers but the infrastructure is just not there. My 3 mile ride has about 50ft of bike lane
Minnow89@reddit
Exactly...Big engines, tiny confidence! E-bikes spook ’em like a leaf blower scares lion
Looserette@reddit
I'm a cyclist, and I drive too.
You know what I hate ? Driving and having a bike in front of me ! Picture a small street, low speed limit, a cyclist and some parked cars. How the fuck do you pass the cyclist safely ? Either you stay behind for a long time, or you have to accelerate like a maniac to pass him without putting him or your car at risk.
Anyway, not sure where I'm going with this; but something like: it's not that easy to drive around cyclists
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
Dude, it is not hard to pass safely on the neighborhood roads you described, as I have had many cars do. Most of the time drivers are respectful when passing. Theres no need to “accelerate like a maniac”
bggdy9@reddit
Then you are a bad driver... its their law we bikers can ride the roads. So sit down and wait
RepresentativeHuge79@reddit
Pretty much, I was driving my etrike on the shoulder the other day, with the flow of traffic like I'm supposed to, and some bozo in a lifted truck yelled at me to get out of the road as he drove by
PoisonMind@reddit
It's called MGIF (Must Get In Front) syndrome, and it's an epidemic. Everyone here could tell you stories. My personal favorite is the time a city bus cut me off so he could immediately stop and pick up a passenger.
I think it's due to a combination of factors. Not knowing how to behave around cyclists is definitely one of them. This is due to poor education and lack of experience.
Other factors are not being able to gauge the speed of a cyclist (ebikes are considerable faster than mechanical bikes), overestimating their own average speed (their instantaneous speed can be much higher but their average is about the same as an ebike's in gridlock), and the irrational fear of being stuck behind someone going slower than them for an unknown period of time. They may also believe that they are being courteous to other motorists behind them.
missionarymechanic@reddit
Ebikes may have an extra challenge in being faster than what cagers are accustomed to navigating. All they see is "bicycle" and do the usual calculations of roaring past you, but don't realize how much faster you're likely going than your typical pedal jockey. It's also possible that an ebiker is less close to the margin as their speed increases.
bggdy9@reddit
Im slower then a regular bike on the normal.
bggdy9@reddit
Drivers do not know bike laws.. aka their own laws.
stormdelta@reddit
Drivers don't know how to drive period, let alone how to act around bikes and pedestrians, let alone ebikes.
A consequence of US infrastructure being so insanely car-dependent is that we're reluctant to deny anyone the ability to drive, even people who clearly should not be driving.
The only thing you can do is be extremely defensive when cycling. Always assume cars will be stupid, and pay attention to road design and layout rather than what cars are "supposed" to be doing. E.g. a large, straight open road means cars will go fast on it no matter what the posted speed limit is. A fence blocking view means a car will pull out past the stop sign, and might not even bother stopping. Any time I can tell a spot might have someone do something stupid or I've identified as a known problem spot, I start to pre-emptively slow down a bit just in case when approaching it. Etc.
I find an airhorn is also quite useful for edge cases.
Every-Assumption3065@reddit
This is good advice. I was in the middle of a crosswalk and an old dude had to swerve. Then had the audacity to gesture at me like I was in the wrong and didn’t need to stop when he had plenty of time to see me and stop.
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
I've been thinking about getting a horn, I have a bell but feel like that doesn't send the same message lol. There's a few blind spots against fences and bushes on my commute and yeah I'm super cautious of them. Even though there's stop signs I always slow down look for cars that I know will be blazing through
stormdelta@reddit
A bell is great, but it's mainly for pedestrians and other cyclists. Drivers can't even really hear it unless their windows are down in complete silence.
I don't have to use the horn often, but when I do it really helps, especially with clearly distracted drivers, both because it's very loud, and because it doesn't sound like a car horn they might be used to ignoring.
HojonPark4077@reddit
Probably best to just pretend that you and your bike are invisible to cars and drivers and ride like every car wants to kill you.
purplishfluffyclouds@reddit
This has nothing to do with ebikes.
It has everything to do with people who ride/drive on 2 wheels everywhere since the ~~beginning of time~~ the invention of the automobile.
Welcome to the club. I highly recommend you take a MSF (motorcycle safety) course. Since you're in that grey area between bicycle and motorcycle, you would learn a lot.
0bligatoryUsername@reddit
Be sure to make eye contact and use hand gestures when possible. I put a plate on the rear that says "pass safely". When riding sub 20 mph, i believe it helps people realise im not a moto and they seem to treat me accordingly.
I mostly ride like a bicycle unless the road has a speed limit of 40, in which case im with traffic. Too many people dont check the side when turning off roads with that posted limit and above.
JG-at-Prime@reddit
Eye contact is impossible in California these days.
CA passed a law allowing cars to have tinted windows if the driver has a doctor’s note. So every ding bat on the with a car rushed to get tinting. Now most of the cars are blacked out behind limousine tinting.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-e5zRbYNBZno/W3oMxBnWGMI/AAAAAAAAs7M/8yY39BPEd_4DxkVrqHb9zOhS_4ZQUKMcgCLcBGAs/s1600/california-window-tint-law-2018.jpg
(This is pretty representative of how many of not most of the car’s in my area look now.) I don’t know how they see anything at night.
Eye contact used to be a useful thing. Unfortunately it’s just not a thing anymore.
I actually get kinda surprised when I can see a driver anymore.
Dirtbagdownhill@reddit
They don't know how to drive around acoustic bikes, pedestrians, or other cars. Think a faster bike is going to work into the system well?
Bogmanbob@reddit
I'm a lifelong cyclist. Drivers and cyclists are mortal enemies. Some even try and trick you by acting kind but they really are just trying to wave you into cross traffic. The introduction of ebikers changed nothing.
Gildor_Helyanwe@reddit
I agree, you have to be hyper aware of your surroundings when riding on the roads
Myself, i shake my head when I see cyclists wearing earbuds, so much of your awareness is restricted
times_zero@reddit
For context, I live in NoCal. This is a good example of why I don't travel directly on the main roads as a general rule unless it's to cross the street. If there's no bike path, or no sidewalk (or it's occupied) then I go on the road shoulder, and I don't put my back to traffic. I don't trust any car, and that flimsy window dressing we call the "bike lane" in the USA is a joke.
miniminerrockhound@reddit
Yes , always , gotta know your route time lights and sometimes know that every day you will have to stop there and avoid these similar and common incidents just to be safe . I constantly have to remind myself to just stop or slow to a crawl to avoid getting between parked cars and passing cars etc
Accomplished_Data717@reddit
I think a lot of people aren’t so used to the speed of an e-bike. In their eyes they see a person on a bike and think you’re going to be going a lot slower and misjudge. I try to be super aware on mine as I am traveling a lot faster than on a regular bike if I’m on the street. I also ride a street over from the main streets when possible. A lot of zombie drivers out there, stay safe
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
I definitely do believe people misjudge my speed, especially the ones who try to cut me off right before a stop sign (still a jerk move tho). And yeah, I avoid main streets like the plague, The Main Road in my city is infamous for speeding (technically its 35 but people treat it like 45/50) and redlight running. I make a left turn on the sidewalk on it and its the worst part of my commute.
Accomplished_Data717@reddit
I hear you, have a 1/4 mile stretch on mine that I absolutely dread!
TheFlightlessDragon@reddit
Same here (West Coast US) seems to be the case whether I am on my eBike, scooter or pedal bike
Drivers out here are clueless around anything that isn’t a car… or maybe they’re just plain clueless 🤪
3dogs2nuts@reddit
after reading this and other similar posts, and as a trail runner, it seems vehicles treat eBikes, the way eBikers treat trail runners. no common courtesy, rude, and like “they” own the road. it’s awfully dangerous
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
I definitely feel unwelcome on the roads. Sorry you've had to deal with asshole bikers on trails, when I'm on the sidewalk and see someone walking, I'll either slow down to a walking speed or walk my bike when passing them. This city's bad enough to pedestrians already, I don't wanna make it worse
ZombieHuggerr@reddit
I'm gonna be that guy, but you're not hogging the entire lane, are you? You should be keeping to the right as much as safely possible to allow faster traffic around you (without them having to cross center lines).
Nobody likes to be stuck behind someone going 30 or slower. Unless you're confined to narrow, single lane roads, then not much to be done, of course.
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
I do stay as far right as possible and don't go on any roads that go over 35mph, I've got a rearview mirror too so I can keep watch for anyone behind me and stay right for them to pass. But sometimes I do kinda have to take up the lane to avoid potholes, the roads can be really bad where Im at. Some drivers are just not making great choices of when to pass me though.
ZombieHuggerr@reddit
Definitely sounds like a case of bunghole drivers. I really ride on 40 mph streets, but always keeping to the right and I rarely see someone start to cross lanes when going around me.
Stay safe out there, stranger
Butthole_Fiesta@reddit
Every fucking day. My bike tops out around 35 and usually has no trouble whatsoever with keeping up with traffic in city/residential areas, even with people driving 10 over the limit. Despite this, they will do anything and Everett’s to get ahead of me, even if I’m stuck behind a bus, an old lady in a Buick, and nothing but red lights ahead of me.
Also, they have a serious issue judging speed (especially when they’re about to pull out in front of you).
Objective-Yam3839@reddit
They are self absorbed idiots. I see all kids of terrible behavior in rural East Tennessee. When one of them finally does something really dumb and crashes, I do not intend to stick around.
porkchop_d_clown@reddit
Now you know what regular cyclists have been putting up with all this time...
frost_wood@reddit (OP)
I feel for yall so hard, the cyclist hate is just insane to me. I've read some truly heinous things people have said about sport cyclists. God forbid someone have an active hobby 😭
TonyXuRichMF@reddit
It's way too easy to keep a driver's license in this country
Wind_Advertising-679@reddit
I'm in Boise Idaho and a significant amount of anything but a car, all kinds of bikes, scooters, skateboard, standing gyroscope thing, and 75% of the cars stop and wait for any kind of pedestrian traffic to cross the street
RedGobboRebel@reddit