Is it usual procedure to have to go into hospital to feed relatives?
Posted by Sea_Pangolin3840@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 233 comments
England-have a relative in hospital who is unable to feed herself and nurses say there's not enough staff available to feed him .A couple of cousins are having to take time off work to be there for meal times and this isn't feasible long term .Patient has a brain tumour. Thankyou in advance
No_Detail9259@reddit
WTF?
Forever_a_Kumquat@reddit
Was pretty much my experience when I had a week in hospital in 2011 after spinal surgery. I was flat on my back and couldn't move.
Food was dumped at the end of the bed and left there.
The first day I just didn't eat as no one was around to come in to feed me. I asked a nurse and she said she couldnt do it.
The rest of the week my wife and my mum organised between themselves to come in to help.
Food was fucking awful too.
Homebrew_in_a_Shed@reddit
Complaints about hospital food while on casual UK they're extolling the wonderful chicken korma served in UK prisons. š
leninzen@reddit
That sounds awful, same with OPs story. I understand the NHS are understaffed/overwhelmed/underfunded but surely sick people eating is a very high priority?
Active-Answer1858@reddit
It technically is a priority but it's very hard to prioritise when the bells are ringing around you and there's people sat in their soiled beds, patients escalating and needing more attention, handovers, drug rounds, patient transport, new admissions, so on. And chances are if people cannot feed themselves they also cannot call for help or use their bell. They go unnoticed for a long time in some places. It will be flagged and recognised but it's about getting someone who is available to help. It's awfully sad. I know our wards would so appreciate having family come in to help, sometimes there are only 2 HCAs for 28 beds. It's terrible.
Also, the NHS shoots itself in the foot this way. If people aren't fed, they get unwell, it all goes on in a cycle. If we could feed all patients properly and ensure they have a good intake, we'd have much better outcomes for many.
leninzen@reddit
Yeah, it is very sad all round. I do not blame the NHS staff at all for it.
No-Suspect-6104@reddit
We donāt want this standard of care. It weighs on me everyday that we canāt do better for patients.
palindromedev@reddit
But not enough to whistle blow?
saswir@reddit
Whistle blow on every single ward every single day? The senior management know about this, there's just no consequences to them for ignoring it
lostrandomdude@reddit
The problem is that senior management aren't ignoring it.
They know it's an issue and it's one they want to fix
However, the resolution is more money for more staff which they don't have.
Most hospitals are old and falling apart and they don't have the money to repair let alone replace these, so where can they find money for additional staff
saswir@reddit
Indeed, that's why all the actual clinical staff should just shrug their shoulders and take on more personal risk to our licenses and livelihoods whilst the BSc business studies folk reassure us how sorry they are
Enough-Ad3818@reddit
It's a national issue, well documented, and has been for so many years.
This is the same as getting on shift tomorrow and reporting the COVID PPE issues. It's not something that needs bringing to the attention of the organisation, as it's been that way for so long, and there no fix for it other than additional staff, but there's no funding, so... well no, that's the end really. There's no funds for it, so there's no staff, so friends and relatives are encouraged to feed patients where they can.
First_Television_600@reddit
āItās been that way for so longā is not an excuse. Justifying this shitty standard of care is what got us to where we are now. Keep accepting less, weāll keep getting less.
Enough-Ad3818@reddit
OK, I'll go whistle blow about a national issue that the Government won't fund to correct. Let's see what happens.
Loudlass81@reddit
Exactly. Pisses me off as a patient when the nurses WATCHING patients get neglected - and that's what it IS, it's 100% NEGLECT - and yet still refise to Datix and whistleblow.
redpanda793@reddit
So bizarre you are being downvoted for this statement. Even if they are understaffed and underfunded itās plain wrong to leave a patient to starve. You are right it is neglect and the staff who witness this every day are partially culpable for not speaking up. People can say oh management know and donāt do anything, so whatās the point? The point is knowing youāve tried everything possible to help and improve the situation? Not being resigned to shit practices and procedures that affect the lives of real people because thatās ājust the way it isā. Itās a sickening attitude. I am grateful for the NHS and the staff there but they are not above criticism.
First_Television_600@reddit
Itās fucking ridiculous. People keep accepting a standard of care that is unacceptable and refuse to criticise the NHS. Look at the national healthcare systems in other European countries, they are significantly better in many ways and people donāt have this obsequious deference to them. Itās normal to criticise it and hold it to account, otherwise how can it improve.
binkstagram@reddit
This seems like a management problem. Are there things like feeding that could be done by volunteers or workers with less qualifications? There are things that still need the training and education of a nursing diploma or degree, and then there are things that a competent adult can do.
ACanWontAttitude@reddit
There are but the hoops they have to jump through is a lot. My hospital apparently has volunteers but I've never seen them where they're needed; on the ward
leninzen@reddit
It isn't your fault, and genuinely you are appreciated. Sorry you have to be run off your feet for little reward
palindromedev@reddit
Just following orders...
leninzen@reddit
I think I understand your connotation here and that's unfair. They truly are doing their best in the worst environment
palindromedev@reddit
Stop making excuses for them, people are being neglected and dying.
Let me remind you that we pay in to this service and when we are at our most vulnerable, we are being neglected by people who turn a blind eye, stay silent, and just go home at the end of shifts allowing this to continue happening the next day, and the next.
It's inhumane.
Crazy80sbird@reddit
100%š
threegreencats@reddit
Lots of us don't stay silent and turn a blind eye - I tell management and seniors every shift about the issues we have in the department, the shortage of staff, poor morale, ageing equipment that frequently breaks, impact the lack of beds has on patients waiting in ambulances outside A&E. Nothing changes. Our MP has visited, and been told about the issues repeatedly, but doesn't give a shit and would rather play his own political games. Articles have been written in the local papers about the problems.
Other than telling our direct seniors, any member of senior management I can collar who comes near the department, the CEO when they could be bothered to visit, our MP and local papers, who exactly would you like us to report this to?
palindromedev@reddit
Seriously?
You're telling me you don't know who it is you should be whistleblowing to?
It's a Google search away and clear guidance on the Gov website.
3mins effort to find out shows how little care for patients there is at a human level.
I won't post again but I will say anyone defending what is going on at a human level had better pray they never personally end up as a patient to experience first hand what level of neglect is enabled by those that 'care'
As for who's fault it is, they are all complicit in the deeds by not whistleblowing.
Loudlass81@reddit
Yep. Every nurse that allows this to happen is 100% COMPLICIT IN NEGLECT OF PATIENTS.
Whether that's by choice or not, they are still complicit if they DON'T whistleblow.
AnonymousBanana7@reddit
What the fuck are you talking about whistleblowing? Staffing numbers are publicly available and incident reports are completed every shift, everyone from the frontline to the senior management and the government, as well as the public, is already aware of what's going on.
You do not know what the fuck you are talking about.
AnonymousBanana7@reddit
This is such a dumb fucking take.
2 people cannot physically serve dinner to 36 patients and feed 4 patients at the same time. What the fuck do you want anyone to do?
If it bothers you that much, most hospitals welcome volunteers to help with things like this.
Silly fucking cunt.
Basic_Simple9813@reddit
Perhaps then, if you paid a bit (lot) more into the service, there would be more funds to pay more staff. You blaming the staff, who are going above and beyond on a daily basis, is ignorant. Lay the blame at the feet of successive governments, the public who refuse to fund it more, and the demanding & entitled patients & relatives who go to A&E with a broken fingernail, or complain that their relative - who has refused to get out of bed - is in bed.
leninzen@reddit
Come on, it's not their fault that they don't have enough staff ffs
Loudlass81@reddit
Yup. That's what it feels like as the patient being neglected & left to starve.
lightswan@reddit
Ah yes, committing genocide en masse is the same as being busy because Doris two beds over has started complaining of a radiating chest pain. Absolutely normal and equivalent comparison made by a clearly well adjusted human being with extensive experience in healthcare.
Loudlass81@reddit
You might do if YOU were the patient left to starve for 5 days out of a 10 day stay...
Active-Answer1858@reddit
Absolutely. And not all patients have someone who can come in and feed them by hand. Very tough.
Ihavecakewantsome@reddit
I can confirm. I was disciplined for feeding a partially paralysed man on his back a yoghurt as I was too slow to attend to a lady wanting to go to the loo and she went over her bed. She couldnt take herself due to needing to be unhooked from machines.Ā
Not his fault he had to eat very carefully so he wouldn't choke, but it was mine as the only other member of staff on my side was doing medication (this can't be interrupted).Ā
It put me off from studying to be a nurse, I have to say.
Loudlass81@reddit
So the poor extra vulnerable patients get left if they've got nobody that can go in to support? How are patients meant to gey better if they're becoming malnourished in hospital?
My last hospital visit was a 10-day stay on a trauma orthopaedic ward. I am on a medically necessary specialist diet due to severe allergies & my ulcerative colitis. For 5 days out of 10, they were unable to feed me. So they discharged me home not cos my treatment plan had finished, but cos they literally couldn't meet my dietary requirements. Even though they have a legal duty under the Equality Act.
If you see a patient that needs assistance to eat & there's no staff to help, DATIX IT, EVERY TIME! It's the only way to get managers to understand how close they're coming to being sued into oblivion for breaking the law...
No-Low4469@reddit
The managers understand that already. They only have the staff that they have. In order to increase staff, we'd need to increase funding. That isnt really an option.
Abquine@reddit
This, they couldn't even tell my diabetic friend whether the juice was sugar free or not. I think they worked on the basis that if her sugar levels went nuts, they'd just treat her. š¤·š»āāļø
Loudlass81@reddit
That's awful. I've got severe anaphylactic allergies and EVERY meal they had had my biggest allergen in - tapioca starch. Its also hidden as dextrose, starch, modified starch, and E1412, E1413, E1414, E1420 and E1422...
It's used as a thickener or a filler in cheap ready meals...
Loudlass81@reddit
I'm also allergic to xanthan gum, E415.
Having to label read EVERYTHING, every time I shop, in case they've changed the ingredients.
The COL crisis has made this MUCH worse, as they're now shoving tapioca starch and/or xanthan gum in bloody EVERYTHING. Just been shopping only to find I literally can't even buy the LUXURY ready meals any more, cos they've shoved it in them now too.
Their isn't a single ready meal I can eat now, I have to cook EVERYTHING from scratch at home, with the help of my Carers (they're not allowed into the hospital for insurance reasons apparently!). Like, I can't even buy frozen food cos they use a light dusting of tapioca starch to prevent items from sticking together in the packets...
I HATE the weird, random allergies that my MCAS gives me!
ForeignWeb8992@reddit
This is absolutely the answer. We need to stop to commiserate the staff, the staff should escalate till when the shit stops being ignoredĀ
Electronic-Country63@reddit
So true. I was in for 4 weeks with gastric outlet obstruction caused malnutrition which caused hypoalbuminia and messed up my blood chemistry. Iām a 46year old male and in many ways came out worse than I went in. I couldnāt tolerate the food there it was utterly dreadful and caused vomiting but no one was really across that. My husband started bringing meals in but I really feel for people who couldnāt have that and also couldnāt have someone help feed them when they couldnāt or had no interest in food.
The staff were so thinly stretched it was awful for everyone. I need to go back in really for feeding through an NJ tube or PICC line but Iām desperately trying to stay home and manage purely on oral shakes to avoid going in again. Pain management was awful in the same way and I kept getting delayed doses of pain relief which meant I kept getting back into pain which is so much harder to get out of than staying out of pain. At t least at home I can manage that element myself.
Same experience with my grandmother when she was in years ago. I was going in and trying to feed her and coax her to eat as otherwise she wouldnāt and only weighed 40kg due to leukaemia.
The system is good for acute treatment in my experience but everything else suffers.
Active-Answer1858@reddit
I'm sorry you had such an awful experience, and I can totally understand you wanting to avoid readmission. Especially regarding pain as you say about managing it proactively versus reacting too late and trapping people in cycles of pain. It's exhausting for them and definitely negatively impacts recovery.
You nailed it about acute treatment, the rest do suffer if they're not acute. I hope you get better treatment in future.
squashedfrog92@reddit
This may be a naive question, but would members of the public be allowed to volunteer to help with this if they had/were prepared to pay for the appropriate dbs check? Itās something I used to help my mum with when she was in hospice and I wouldnāt mind doing it again for someone who needs it if I could.
Loudlass81@reddit
My hospital doesn't allow it any more, apparently an insurance thing.
XihuanNi-6784@reddit
Classic insurance/finances/red tape doing far more harm than good.
Active-Answer1858@reddit
Our hospital still accepts and appreciates volunteers!
HarMonocles@reddit
Some hospitals won't allow volunteers to directly feed patients without specific training (that they may or may not offer), but helping to distribute meals/cut up food/sit with patients can definitely free up some HCA time to feed patients who need that level of help.
caffeine_lights@reddit
This is shocking. I knew it was bad but I didn't know it was this bad.
LogPrestigious1941@reddit
Too true and very sad
AnonymousBanana7@reddit
When you have 4 patients needing to be fed and 2 HCAs who are also serving dinner to the other 34 patients on the ward on top of everything else what exactly do you expect anyone to do?
Loudlass81@reddit
Ensure that patients aren't neglected and if they are, then Datix it EVERY. SINGLE. TIME, plus contact the whistle-blower service every time you leave a patient unfed. It's neglect, plain and simple, and any nurse NOT fighting this is complicit in that neglect.
Stop just ALLOWING the neglect and normalising it. Go to the media about how many patients on each shift are being neglected. Understand that those without family WILL need the nurses to feed them & ENSURE they aren't neglected.
I'm just about to take my hospital to court for leaving me with no food at all for 5 days of a 10 day visit. It was neglect, I left hospital sicker than when I went in FFS.
AnonymousBanana7@reddit
Oh my god this is so fucking stupid.
I think I'd rather just get a better job than be accused of neglect for not "blowing the whistle" on information that's routinely escalated and publicly available.
"Go to the media" - NONE OF THIS INFORMATION IS A SECRET, WE ARE LITERALLY DISCUSSING IT ONLINE. How is this so hard for you to understand?
Blaming the minimum wage people working flat out is just fucking pathetic.
Snooker1471@reddit
Letting people starve is much more stupid and is normalising it. Tell your MP, Tell your local media of ALL shapes - Paper, Radio, Local ITV news. Tell your seniors. Tell the families of patients that they need to come in and do basic care because you can't. Don't stop, Keep telling EVERYONE!!
Loudlass81@reddit
THEN GO ON STRIKE - I'll cone out and support my local nurses just like I did the junior doctors - I bring food & stand on the picket line with the striking nurses. If I'm willing to do that despite being in agonising pain every damn day forever, why aren't the nurses on strike already??
If my working conditions were so bad that it caused me to neglect vulnerable patients, I'd be yelling at the NMC to get on strike NOW!
redpanda793@reddit
Gotta say itās slightly shocking to me that you have heard their story of not being fed for 5 whole days and you donāt have one word of sympathy for them and their experience, and instead just berate them because you disagree with their opinion. They arenāt blaming staff for the overall situation. They are pretty correctly stating that if you as an NHS worker witness neglect, you are partially culpable if you do not report it.
AnonymousBanana7@reddit
I'm not going to beat myself up or be called negligent over problems completely out of my control, when I'm doing vastly more to help than the people in this thread.
redpanda793@reddit
If you have personally witnessed or been involved with a situation where a patient who cannot feed themselves hasnāt been helped to eat, and you havenāt escalated that issue then Iām sorry but you have been negligent in your duty of care. You may not be able to control staffing levels or fix the issue yourself but at minimum you can continue to report unsafe practice internally or externally to the CQC or something like that. If you havenāt been involved in a situation like that and done nothing then their description doesnāt apply to you and you donāt need to get defensive about it. Simple.
You sound incredibly jaded, which given the state of the NHS is understandable, but I donāt think you take your frustration out on patients who have been treated with a poor standard of care. They have a right to be upset, especially if they felt staff were ignoring their suffering.
thebeesknees093@reddit
The amount of datix Iāve done is silly and no matter what you put itās the same response āthey will make sure this doesnāt happen againā¦ā and yet it still does lol
NHS is falling apart. They are cutting back to save money which means cutting jobs back that really matter but yet the managers get to keep their 10 secretaries and PAs but wards are struggling to manage with the nurses and HCAs they have and not allowed to hire anymore.. staff then leave because the stress is making them unwell mentally and physically and then the wards are even more short and nobody wants to apply for nurses jobs knowing what the NHS is like currently and itās a cycle. Our department is struggling. A lot.
Active-Answer1858@reddit
When I was on the wards it was normal that nurses were leaving their shifts three hours late. That was the average time, and that was BEFORE covid happened.
It was a lovely ward, we had a really great atmosphere and culture. And these nurses were leaving 3 hours late for everything to be done that they could do. Hours of unpaid work, of kids not seeing their parents after school, of nursery and daycare bills racking up, it caused carnage.
And now the ward doesn't do it anymore, understandably, because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. The crux of that was unpaid hours because of course staff didn't want to stay 3 hours after their shift every time. You do what you can and I mean that in the sense that you never, ever stop. If we stayed until everything was done, we'd never go home. And there's so much guilt that's part of that because as somebody said, you're technically a bystander. You're complicit.
We certainly did datix/incident report. But that took time, and not every nurse had access to a computer (we used ipads at that point) because there weren't enough for each member of staff to use (and people kept stealing the chargers).
I get people's anger and frustration. We were and we are too. Our best is not enough, especially for catering specifically for people with specific needs and vulnerabilities. The sign of this system being so poor is there's no consequence bad enough, the wards keep rolling because people keep coming in, but not working as they should. And it's those who are most frail, sick and vulnerable who bear the consequences.
I have dreamed of how amazing it would be to work in a well supported environment in healthcare, but I really don't know if it'll happen in my lifetime or career anymore. So I've moved out of the hospital as much as possible and in future probably out of healthcare.
koombot@reddit
Recording being short staffed but not recording the neglect?Ā Doesn't that just record that there were no problems with being short staffed?
timelyowl398@reddit
It's not stupid at all. Letting people who can't feed themselves just not eat is horrendous!!
moonbrows@reddit
Nurses do NOT allow this to happen, itās managers who do. Every single nurse is fighting this until the point they canāt work in the NHS anymore or continue being a nurse because itās fucking heartbreaking.
We do go to the media, we do discuss it with everyone we can. No, we canāt datix it because thatās not what the system is for. No, we canāt whistleblow because thatās not what that is for either. Also - IT DOESNāT MATTER. Thatās why staff are leaving, because doing these things means fuck all sadly. A datix is both useless in alerting real problems, forcing management to take notice and fantastic at throwing a scape goat under the bus by said management.
Nurses donāt have time to assist patients with diet now and when we do we jump on it, why do you seem to think nurses donāt care about their patients and are just sitting idly by while people are neglected? I left the NHS because I was crying when we told people to come and see their suddenly end of life family member, I literally cried hugging a bloke whoās dad died because I felt so guilty that he had died on our ward when it was preventable but thereās no money for staff, not just nurses - for radiographers, cardio physiologists, doctors, every member of staff needed.
If weāre unable to feed a patient then you can guarantee we feel either upset or angered by it, and then we burn ourselves out and leave.
wildOldcheesecake@reddit
Iām sorry you went through this but you are part of the reason why people donāt want to work for the NHS anymore.
Snooker1471@reddit
I expect them not to allow sick often elderly people in their most vulnerable state to be "almost" allowed to fall into malnutrition and starvation....ultimately resulting in death. I would say feeding someone who can't feed themsleves as a basic human right and should be number 2 after drugs and other medical intervention for a person in hospital.
There has been a LOT of downvoting in this thread today. I for the life of me can't really see why because no matter which way you cut it you DO NOT ignore someone being starved to death. Who should you tell ? Your superiors, Your local MP, Your local Newspaper, Your local Radio station, Any [person or body who will listen and maybe shout a bit louder.
Please tell me that when those who work in the NHS hospitals started on their 1st day one of the things they thought they might have to compromise on was assisting people to eat and drink if they can't do so themselves.
Some of the "What do you expect us to do" responses really blow my mind to be honest. If you see a dog starving in your neighbourhood most right thinking people would call the RSPCA and report it....But you won't call or report a fellow human getting starved because "we don't have enough staff...it's not anybodies fault".
Is there any other services we pay tax for where this attitude is prevalant ? I know there is but lets imagine - Oh number 43 is on fire - oh well too bad we are putting out a fire in number 11....NO they order a 2nd unit from another station if need be...they don't just stand and sigh and say well we would put it out but numbers.... Oh look there is a post office/bank being robbed....Ah but we are doing a speed trap at the bottom of the high street...just give em a crime number - Again NO they get more rescources from whereever they can.
Just for the record - I bitterly complained about my now late fathers treatment and lack of care while he was in hospital, We were asked to stay and watch him overnight as they "didn't have the staff" this was after us doing 8am-9pm already between us as we were trying to take the load off - One email to patient services (Scotland) and all of a sudden my dad had a carer sat with him for 24 hours and we were no longer ignored by the senior nurse...the other nurses and assistants were as good as they could be from the begining but yeah funny what a silly little email and follow up phonecall can produce from thin air.
Sorry for the rant but this is just unacceptable on so many levels.
leninzen@reddit
I agree, keep reading my comments. It's not NHS workers fault
jimmywhereareya@reddit
It is, but if nobody is available to feed you... I don't think that nurses have enough time, but there used to be other staff who's job it was to tend to non medical needs.. do they still have people doing that role?
leninzen@reddit
I do understand that completely, I just find it very sad that a nurse could literally tell someone "no, I can't feed you, sorry". I guess you mean porters? I'm not sure
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
Porters can't - that role was outsourced to agency staff at a lot of hospitals at least in London. My partner did it for a time and he wasn't allowed to even touch the patients on call. If they fell, he had to call for nurses. He was purely transportation. They laughed at him at one place (stroke rehab ward) because he did go to ward at lunchtime (off-duty) to eat and play chess with one patient.
XihuanNi-6784@reddit
This. Huge amounts of outsourcing mean that there is now almost no flexibility in staffing. You cannot get a porter to step in in a pinch and do something because the company he works for has an iron clad contract along with insurance laying out exactly what he can and can't do. When people were employed directly by the NHS i.e. non-profit seeking, there was more flexibility of staff and more rationale deployment of them. Now it's all been outsourced for financial flexibility and cost cutting but in the long run it costs more and degrades the service.
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
Totally agree. My mother was a ward sister and then matron in the 70s. Everything stopped for meal times and all staff got pulled in to help. Porters, auxillaries, herself and the ward nurses. And drug round were dedicated - 2 nurses together who wore a special hat and could not be called away. Outsourcing services was a very short-term saving.
And staff churn was very high. My partner did it as a temp - week on and week off - and then with same agencies went into stock management at the same hospital. There are certain roles that shouldn't be temp and stock management is one. The other one that really annoyed me as a patient was my consultant (three major clinics Central London) wasn't allowed to hire a permanent secretary as they might - gasp- want pensions and holidays. So she got agency secretary and though good, the lack of consistency meant patients dropped through gaps so she ended up doing paperwork herself.
That's a top-end consultant doing their own letters either out of hours or at a terrifying hourly rate. She was facing burn out.
GovernmentNo2720@reddit
Iām sorry he had to get laughed at. My father was on the stroke rehab ward for a very long time and we always appreciated staff who did things like this and went above and beyond. Even if his cognitive faculties were affected by the stroke, my mother and I as relatives got very close to the porters and HCAs and always noticed when someone showed extra care and love.
ForeignWeb8992@reddit
Health care assistants
Thisoneissfwihope@reddit
It was health care assisstants who fed me when I couldn't do it myself.
jimmywhereareya@reddit
Domiciliary or something similar. I'm going back a few years now
20127010603170562316@reddit
I was advised by 111 to go to A&E for a cut that would not stop bleeding. There was a counter that said something like "next appointment: 7h:45m.
111 Told me that I had an appointment and to just show up. They lied.
Anyway, I show up with my bleeding cut, the reception people look at it and seem a bit pissed off.
They told me they absolutely could not treat me, but they'd get some plasters to give me and tell me how to do it. I had a couple of nurses watching me as I cleaned my own wound and applied the plaster.
If they'd have touched me to "give care", it would have apparently been "jumping the queue". I respect that, but it felt kind of petty and pointless.
To be fair, I probably didn't need to go to A&E but I absolutely could not stop that cut on my own with what I had in the house so vOv.
boojes@reddit
Don't you have a walk in centre/minor injuries unit nearby?
20127010603170562316@reddit
That would be the A&E.
boojes@reddit
Can't tell if you're being snarky or not. MIUs are separate to A&E/ EDs and are there specifically for minor injuries such as cuts. Going to A&E for a cut is a waste of resources.
20127010603170562316@reddit
Not entirely snarky.
I don't disagree, but we don't have that here.
I called the non emergency line and did what I was told. I was panicking and it was late at night. I didn't even want to go, but 111 strongly advised I did.
I didn't take up many resources though, apart from the reception nurse going and getting me a bandage.
Laylelo@reddit
2024, I had abdominal surgery and during a meal service I unfortunately threw up on myself and couldnāt do anything about it. Not only did the poor woman opposite me lock eyes with me as I was doing it while she was eating (I am SO sorry to this day!) but I had to sit in it for a whole day until they came and cleaned me up.
Soā¦ yeah, itās not great right now.
ExpendedMagnox@reddit
Please remember this when doctors and nurses are striking. It's not just about the money, but that seems to be the only thing the government care about.
Laylelo@reddit
Trust me, I do. And teachers. I support all of them and encourage them to strike. Right after my experience I shared it with the nursing forum here and told them I supported them to strike. They all should be paid more and get more support.
Loudlass81@reddit
I 100% agree. Wards need to be PROPERLY staffed, mealtimes should be sacrosanct and EVERYONE that needs help to eat should he given that help while their food is still hot.
They absolutely should be paid more - I also feel that a job like Nursing, or being a domiciliary Carer, or an HCA, should also be given more paid holiday, as it is SUCH a stressful job.
While I'm well aware that it's not the nurses' fault I was left without food for so long, but when you are repeatedly failed by your local health system, there are times when your MH gets the better of you - especially when there's no ability in my area to treat people with severe MH Disabilities...
(They've closed my local SMHT around 8 yrs ago, CMHT say my needs are too severe for them to manage, they've even just closed the Eating Disorders clinic 2 months ago. They won't pay for private treatment & they won't pay to send us to other Health Trusts for treatment...)
Given that I was neglected and starved as a child, having to go through what I went through in my last hospital stay SEVERELY triggered me, and I won't lie, even 3 months later, I'm STILL dealing with suicidal thoughts because I'm scared to go back. And yet, with multiple complex needs, it's a given that I WILL have to go back...
But I can see me ending up dying at home simply cos I'm too scared to go back in to be left to starve again...
It's left me with EXTREME medical trauma, how am I meant to manage my health when I keep getting traumatised by the way I'm being 'Cared' for as an inpatient, yet I need inpatient treatments to SURVIVE. And they won't even help me with the MH effects of being mistreated...
I'm being failed in numerous ways by both my local Health Trust, and my local Social Care. I'm TIRED of being mistreated.
Laylelo@reddit
Iām so sorry. Thatās awful.
Unfortunately you have to fight so hard to be your own advocate in this system because itās easy to get overlooked. Please remember youāre worth it though. I hate that we have to be strong but I know you can do it. You have passion and youāre clear headed.
Loudlass81@reddit
And PALS & CQC are about as much use as bloody chocolate teapots...
Loudlass81@reddit
I'll be out on the picket line with the nurses if they actually do strike - I even bring food for them. Just like I did when the Junior doctors went on strike.
dibblah@reddit
I had bowel surgery last year and on the bowel surgery ward one lady had diarrhea over the whole bathroom and it wasn't cleaned for 48 hours. It was awful and I felt so bad for her.
AWildEnglishman@reddit
While visiting my mum in hospital, my aunt noticed that the lady in the bed next to mum wasn't eating the food that was sat in front of her for 20 minutes or more. She was older, quite frail, and said she was unable to feed herself, so my aunt spoon-fed her.
When the nurses came by they told my aunt she shouldnāt be doing that, which apparently sent my aunt apoplectic.
Wild_Cauliflower_970@reddit
This was my experience too - I was unable to feed myself or use the bathroom but this was during Covid where they only allowed one visitor and only for one hour per day so my husband would have to leave the kids with our neighbour, visit, feed me, take me to the bathroom and leave. It was the worst time of my life.
Fair_Effect4532@reddit
So sorry you had to experience this, sounds awful š„ŗā ļø! Hope you are ok now and never have to experience that again. Who would leave food at the end of the bed and let someone look at it but unable to feed themselves jesus š
caffeine_lights@reddit
There was an advert like that in the 90s (Elmlea I think) and it was funny because it was so ludicrous.
becca413g@reddit
Patients regularly die from or fail to recover due to malfunction. Of course this rarely recorded properly because sepsis sounds better than infection worsened by being starved for two weeks before dietetics got a referral when it was too late to do anything and they'd die regardless of what nutrition they were provided. Unfortunately it only takes one or two members of staff to lie or make assumptions about if a patient had something to eat for people to fall under the radar because it seems like they are eating.
Unfortunately I have had to attend safeguarding meetings and even caught one healthcare 'professional' writing incorrect information in a patient's notes as I was waiting to take them to the meeting.
blizzardlizard666@reddit
This sounds absolutely fucked. Is this common in other countries??? Terrifying.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
I live in Spain and this is exactly how things are done, it's expected that a family member will stay in the hospital at all times to help patients. When my elderly in laws and even my partner's aunts and uncles have been in hospital family members set up a rota of shifts to be there all day and all night. As a foreigner I'm terrified of being hospitalised because I only have my partner who'd have to look after our child.Ā
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
Do peopleās jobs allow them paid time off to do this?
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
A couple of days for immediate relatives. Beyond that or for people like aunts and uncles it's why family organise shifts around working hours, with other retired people doing the daytime generally. It is hard and exhausting if you have a sick relative.
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
Iām glad we donāt place that expectation on families here, we just need to get the staffing sorted in our hospitals now.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Well I think it's also just that family is really important in Spain. I'm not sure if it started as an obligation really, but now it's expected.
Basic_Simple9813@reddit
It may well be historical / cultural too. Family is important in Spain, and many other countries. We have a lot of international nurses, (Indian & various African countries) when they first arrived they were very shocked by having to do personal care, assist with feeding etc. In their countries it is the norm for family members to stay with and care for, their families 24/7. I think we in 'the west' have become paternalised and medicalised so much in our approach to medical care. We gate-keep patients by having visiting times. Staff (in a generalised way) don't value relatives, society is not set up to support families. Before the creation of the NHS families would have had to care for their own relatives at home, because hospital care was so costly.
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
In countries where families are expected to do the caring that burden falls disproportionately on women
Basic_Simple9813@reddit
True. Though I think that's in all countries.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Yes, that's what I was saying. Although to be clear Spain is also in the west really.
Basic_Simple9813@reddit
Yes, I was trying to express that in the cultural comment. Family is still a hugely important thing in Spain. That is something that continues in many / most strands of Spanish life. Here in the UK we have sadly, evolved differently, away from the importance of extended family, the respect for our older generations. This is reflected in how we care for our vulnerable people, and the support provided by government & society, to do so.
Gluecagone@reddit
There is absolutely zero expectation for any of that here in the UK. Especially when ut comes to discharge and getting elderly MFFD patients out of hospital.
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
Yes I know, that's a good thing
First_Television_600@reddit
This is wrong, Iām Spanish raised in Spain my whole life and came to the UK for uni. This is what families do because they care about each other and itās part of our culture, it doesnāt mean that if you donāt have that support nurses will leave you hanging. My mother is a Spanish doctor, so I know plenty about the Spanish healthcare system.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Oh I don't disagree that it's part of the culture but I also don't think they would be able to feed everyone because the system is organised based on the assumption that family members will help. My elderly mother in law was in hospital and a nursing home during COVID and they weren't at all prepared to properly care for all patients because they were used to family being there a lot. I was also in hospital after giving birth and my partner had to leave to buy a couple of things, eat etc and nobody came to help me at all. Most mothers would have their own parents or sisters as backups so it just didn't occur to them.
First_Television_600@reddit
I know what you mean but if you outright asked help would be there for you.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Well I couldn't ask for help because I was in a room on my own and couldn't reach the bell. Thankfully I didn't need anything urgent but if something had happened, like if I'd fainted when getting out of bed, nobody would have known. I'm definitely scared of ever being admitted again because now I have a child my partner couldn't be there.
Loudlass81@reddit
What happens to those with nobody able bodied to come in and help? Cos here in UK they just left me to starve for 5 days out of 10...
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Well I suspect they'd try to help but I'm not sure they'd remember or have time.
blizzardlizard666@reddit
Oh... Two different stories. Well I'm scared as a UK native of ever needing hospitalisation. Not least because I have dietary restrictions I know wouldn't be met
First_Television_600@reddit
Not in Spain. This sounds like a third world healthcare system.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Are you Spanish? It's Spanish culture not to leave someone alone in hospital, when anyone is in hospital the family take turns to have someone there at all times. The nurses might help if you're a foreigner alone but they don't expect to help everyone.
natblidaaa@reddit
This is what I was about to say. My mum used to do this only because it's just something we do with family members, like custom or tradition, not because the nurses wouldn't do it themselves.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
True, but I don't think the nurses would be able to help everyone if families just didn't go. Especially because it's not wards like the UK, it's rooms for one or two.
natblidaaa@reddit
I'll say it does help, but definitely not everyone has that family support. Unfortunately I've spent a lot of time in hospitals and the wards aren't 1 or 2 beds only, and a lot of people didn't have any visitors. And the nurses absolutely do everything they can to help you.
Serious_Escape_5438@reddit
Well none of the hospitals I've been to had large wards other than in Urgencias, but maybe it's regional. I'm not suggesting they won't help if they can or that they're not doing their job, but the system is based on the assumption that most people will have family helping, there's no way they could feed everyone.
First_Television_600@reddit
Exactly, we will do it because we are used to taking care of our families but itās not because the nurses wonāt feed them. Youāll be hard pressed to find a Spanish nurse that will outright tell you no and leave you hanging when you canāt feed yourself.
blizzardlizard666@reddit
It feels like it. I keep trying to find out how to best get medical care in other countries (like paid and legally) and I don't know where to start .
Anyabyte@reddit
If you have the money, get private healthcare.Ā
I think people often forget we do have a more USA style private healthcare system in the UK as well, itās not only public tax funded care, but itās not really accessible to most of the working class.Ā
My step mom went to an NHS hospital for abdominal pain, was told she would need surgery for a hernia, got that booked in but would take months. So She ended up paying to go to a private hospital to get it quickerā¦ private doctor told her she has gallstones, which is what it actually was.Ā She was about to get a surgery she didnāt even need.Ā
blizzardlizard666@reddit
All the insurance I looked at said they won't cover you if you've ever visited an NHS GP about an issue you want to visit them with. I guess just paying for a surgery you know you need is different... Good job they checked her out first though and got the right diagnosis. I'm pretty dirt poor but would pay for health as it's obviously essential.
Loudlass81@reddit
Not possible when you're living off Disability Benefits though...
Necessary-Crazy-7103@reddit
Yes, it is absolutely normal in a lot of other countries. It's also normal in other countries for relatives to do the bulk of the washing and personal care for the patients as well. It's a culture shock for a lot of foreign nurses who struggle with how much they suddenly have to do when they come over and work here.
This hasn't been normal in the NHS until the last few years. Who do you think we have to thank for that?
Dapper_Source1121@reddit
At least in other countries where this is commonplace family are allowed to be in the hospital with their loved one, rather than being restricted to 90 mins per day (which are decidedly not at meal times)
Necessary-Crazy-7103@reddit
Obviously, every hospital is different, but that's definitely not the case where I work. In my department it's five hours and in others within the hospital it's much longer. All the hospitals I've worked at will let you come in outside of those hours if it is to provide care (ie. you can come in to help with feeding/showering but then go afterwards, no hanging about at the bedside without being productive)
Dapper_Source1121@reddit
To be fair I was going through when my wife was in hospital last year, but Iāve checked again and the policy has changed since then.
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
Most hospital visiting is 6-8 hours a day
Basic_Simple9813@reddit
11 hours on my ward.
blizzardlizard666@reddit
Ah right! So hard if you don't have a family, makes sense why people have massive families now though and are so enmeshed even if they're horrible to each other š
spellboundsilk92@reddit
I was hospitalised in Italy last year and there was no food brought onto the ward. Peopleās relatives turned up to bring them food in the morning.
Maybe they brought them something at dinner because I arrived on the ward late evening and left next afternoon.
ACanWontAttitude@reddit
Oh absolutely. My team is made up of many nurses from overseas and say that here in the UK it blows their mind because a lot of the care we give would be done by family in their countries.
BG3restart@reddit
Are they still needing medical care? If not, there are places they can go for rehabilitation for a few weeks until they're fit enough to go home. I remember a couple of my mum's friends who lived alone went to a facility like that after surgery. There should be a hospital social worker you can talk to.
Sea_Pangolin3840@reddit (OP)
Yes waiting for surgery to remove the brain tumour
BG3restart@reddit
A long way from rehab then.
theloniousmick@reddit
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will pipe up but I'm pretty sure that's a no. That's not normal. I imagine they may help if they're around but they shouldn't be asking relatives to supplement hospital staff. Maybe mention it to PALS, complaints making it high enough might shed light on to the shit situation.
PushingDaises13@reddit
It is a pretty normal expectation of family. Large wards have 30-40 patients. Say itās an elderly ward. One day 5 patients may need help with eating but another day it might be 15. Meal times are the same for all. Unless the NHS had a crazy budget itās just not possible to staff to a level where you could ensure all patients are fed all the time.
Apprehensive_Bed_668@reddit
Whilst hospital staff should be available to do this. You feeding YOUR relative isnāt supplementing hospital staff it is taking care of your family which isnāt unreasonable
_FirstOfHerName_@reddit
I live 50 miles from my family. My family work. My family would have to pay through the nose for hospital parking either side of a two hour drive over the tops of a mountain range. Relying on my family to feed me is unreasonable.
And because you can't assume anyone's position, relying on family to feed anyone is unreasonable.
Apprehensive_Bed_668@reddit
Where did I say you should rely on your family to feed you. I said claiming youāre supplementing hospital staff by feeding your family member is entirely incorrect. The number of downvotes on my comment shows exactly how entitled brits are
_FirstOfHerName_@reddit
You said taking care of your family isn't unreasonable. It is unreasonable.
Apprehensive_Bed_668@reddit
In what was is taking care of your own family unreasonable?
_FirstOfHerName_@reddit
I think I was pretty thorough in my first reply to you.
Apprehensive_Bed_668@reddit
Re-read my reply to your original comment and have a little think about what it says. If a patients family is present it is not unreasonable for them to help to feed their relative, that is not supplementing hospital staff that is being a decent relative.
_FirstOfHerName_@reddit
You replied to comments about family having to leave work...
Apprehensive_Bed_668@reddit
Youāre the only person whoās commented about leaving work. The original comment I replied to said nothing about leaving work.
PieleenWhiff@reddit
I think you've misunderstood the conversation, this is about family members feeding the patient due to lack of staff availability. Not family members expecting to be fed.
TheBikerMidwife@reddit
Look up dr Chris Day and Lucy Letby. Two whistleblowers. PALS are there to stop complaints going anywhere. Go to CQC.
GiveMeCheesecake@reddit
It might not be want we WANT to be normal, but yeah Iāve had several hospital stays and if my partner wasnāt there to bring me food I wouldnāt have had any. The staff were too busy. One time they wouldnāt discharge me until Iād drunk a jug of water, but didnāt have anyone who could bring me water so I stayed an extra night.
Willsagain2@reddit
Yes, if you want them to thrive. Some years ago they NHS launched an improvement campaign to ensure that elderly patients were being appropriately encouraged/helped to eat. From the sounds of this thread, it's no longer functioning. My late mum always said you've got to be really well if you're going into hospital, or you can't advocate for yourself and take care of yourself. She wasn't wrong.
Sea_Pangolin3840@reddit (OP)
Your mum certainly was right ! The patient isn't elderly in this case only in his thirties .
presterjohn7171@reddit
Hospitals are underfunded and people want to pay as little tax as they can get away with. This results in people falling through the cracks.
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
No, not in the seven hospitals I have had experience with over the last two years (4 in Scotland, 2 in SW England, 1 in Bedfordshire). In fact, we were asked not to come anywhere near the wards at meal times so staff could stay focused on patients.
I'd raise that with PALs to be honest.
Loudlass81@reddit
PALS is less useful than a chocolate teapot - they don't even get back to you, and half the time there isn't even anyone manning PALS at my hospital, cos one worker is shared between 2 hospitals that are 35 miles apart...in 2 different counties...
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
I've been lucky with them then but that was in London and North Lanarkshire.
Aggravating-Desk4004@reddit
This has been my experience too. My dad was in hospital for two months and was fed on time daily, all meals, even if I was there visiting (it was a challenge so he'd end up covered in food if I tried).
OPs hospital sounds shit.
Timely_Egg_6827@reddit
Totally agree - I went for a week to a hospital in a bad area and food was actually fantastic. Five menus due to ethnic needs but you choose from any supplied by outside catering company. The Scottish hospitals had less interesting food but the staff ensured people ate even on the A&E holding wards while they found a more targetted ward and the geratric ward staff were excellent.
The A&E wards as in recieving warrds could get over-whelmed though but you aren't meant to be there long but sometimes it took time to find a free more appropiate bed. But even there they had block-outs at meal times so patients could be focused on. You could guage how much eaten as tended to visit just after meal time so could check plates for amount eaten. And if they didn't eat for whatever reason as relative in SW sometimes didn't, they made up a sandwich for her later. But close monitoring,
Aggravating-Desk4004@reddit
Ah, in A&E my dad was neglected and wasn't fed. But, like you say, he was only there for a day and we checked so all good. But the ward was amazing.
Zxxzzzzx@reddit
Can I ask why people would consider it so shocking to go in and help their family members eat? Why is it so normal to just abandon family members in hospital and not help them when they are ill? Do we as a society lack that much empathy?
gingersnaps874@reddit
I donāt think anybody in this thread is shocked at the idea of families helping their loved ones in hospital. Of course thatās a lovely thing to do. The shocking thing is when thatās the only way patients are getting cared for, and anyone who doesnāt have family or friends available is stuck being starved for days because there arenāt enough nurses/care assistants to actually make sure they get fed! Itās the neglect of patients thatās shocking, not the fact that families like to help when they can.
mmfn0403@reddit
Some people donāt have family, or donāt have any close family, or whatever family they have donāt live nearby. My motherās first cousin, who is elderly, lives alone in North London. The only family she has in England is my first cousin, who is her first cousin once removed, and who lives in South London, has a pre-school aged child and no car; and her niece, who lives in Gloucestershire. If she goes into hospital, she has nobody who can come in and look after her.
Zxxzzzzx@reddit
Ok and none of that addresses my point....
mmfn0403@reddit
Many people are shocked, precisely because they have empathy. They are thinking of those who have no family, or nobody close.
Plus, even if you have family, what if you donāt have enough family to be able to do a rota? If a patient just has one family member, if that family member has a job, they canāt just take off every single day, every mealtime to go to the hospital. You canāt pay your mortgage with empathy.
Itās a tragic situation all around. Patientsā families having empathy and being in a position to come in to feed their loved ones is great, but itās not a solution, because too many people have nobody.
Zxxzzzzx@reddit
Again none of this addresses my point that families taking care of sick relatives and participating in their care shouldn't be considered shocking
dazed1984@reddit
If you have a full time job itās not possible to be there 3 times a day every day for this.
HeartyBeast@reddit
Put a complaint into PALS. Itās a patient safety issueĀ
Loudlass81@reddit
PALS is less use than a chocolate teapot, they take notes of what happened then like them in the bin I think, cos they say they'll get back to you within 25 days and they never get back to you. You call them and they say you need to speak to X, who isn't here today, I'll get them to contact you when they're next here, and it goes round & round like that but nothing ever actually gets resolved.
CQC are just as useless, it's not like they can shut down a hospital even if it's been in Special Measurea for most of the last 15+ years...
ACanWontAttitude@reddit
No it's not normal and they shouldn't be requesting this. I'm a Deputy Ward Manager and I would be horrified if I thought families thought they HAD to come in for their loved one to get fed.
However there is the reality that there is only a certain amount of staff and a lot of patients to feed all at once. It can't be done and some may have to wait which is unfair.
Where I work families are invited in to help provide care like feeding as part of a 'Carers Passport'. This helps us but also helps the patient as much of the time they are move responsive to their known loved ones than us strangers.
Loudlass81@reddit
Wouldn't have been AS bad if they'd just made ne wait, but they genuinely just didn't have time to help me at all...
PatTheCatMcDonald@reddit
It depends on which NHS trust runs the hospital and what their policy is in terms of staff feeding patients AFAIK.
PatTheCatMcDonald@reddit
You can ask for a 'Feeding at Risk' assessment. That does not guarantee staff will feed them by mouth, they could be put on drip feeding instead.
ACanWontAttitude@reddit
Feeding At Risk isn't relevant here. The issue in this post is a lack of staffing to feed all the people who need it.
Feed At Risk is when someone lacks the proper ability to swallow food, which can lead to aspiration pneumonia. We try altered consistencies of diet to help but the stats aren't great for this and many patients hate the texture. So sometimes a 'feed at risk' decision is made where healthcare professionals, the patient and their family decide to just give the patient 'normal' food and accept the risk of aspiration.
PatTheCatMcDonald@reddit
The OP wasn't clear on exactly why their relative could not feed themselves, and NHS guidelines are clear that when a patient cannot feed themselves, the relatives or the patient can request a Feeding at Risk assessment.
ACanWontAttitude@reddit
That's not what Feed at Risk is. Feed at Risk has nothing to do with whether they can feed themselves or not. Its about their aspiration risk.
It isn't relevant to OP
Loudlass81@reddit
Yup - I'm feed at risk cos of my risk of aspiration pneumonia when my oesophagus collapses (on a 2yr wait list for an urgent ENT appt lol)...but that's separate from me needing help to eat.
PatTheCatMcDonald@reddit
https://www.gmc-uk.org/professional-standards/the-professional-standards/treatment-and-care-towards-the-end-of-life/meeting-patients-nutrition-and-hydration-needs#:\~:text=All%20patients%20are%20entitled%20to,need%20to%20eat%20and%20drink.
ACanWontAttitude@reddit
What is this supposed to say that you think backs up a Feed At Risk assessment is warranted?
PatTheCatMcDonald@reddit
I'm not warranting anything. I'm pointing out that A) there isn't a cohesive answer to this issue across the whole of the UK, which the OP thought was the case.
GMC on end of life care I have posted, which seemed the most appropriate for a patient with a brain tumour.
ACanWontAttitude@reddit
So why are you replying to me then when we were talking about how you're wrong about this being a Feed At Risk decision?
sweetvioletapril@reddit
On my ward, it was hospital policy to have protected meal times, which meant no doctors on rounds, or other treatments taking place other than emergency stuff. Meals for patients needing help/ feeding, were placed on special red trays, and these were distributed last, after normal meals were given out. All nursing staff, and housekeepers who had received training in feeding hazsrds, were then expected to feed patients. Relatives were only permitted at meal times if they had come to feed their family. Meals would be heated when there was someone free to feed, and not just left. Yes, it took longer, but it can be done.
HerbTP@reddit
I think it really depends on the hospital and ward. My mum and dad were in hospital at the same time last year, and between them, they were on seven different wards + a&e overflow.
Some wards had so few staff that you only saw them at rounds, others there was an abundance. One ward, my dad had a nurse with him at all times, and they helped him a lot with his basic needs.
On one ward, my mum made a complaint because a 98 year old hadn't been washed or had anyone sit with her for over a week. They left her food on the table every day and would take it away untouched. My mum never saw them question this or try to encourage her to eat. After my mum said something, they sat with her at every mealtime and helped.
Unfortunately, I think it's the luck of the draw.
r_mutt69@reddit
I was in for just over a week a year ago and the guy in the bed opposite needed help eating and he had a nursing assistant help him each time. I guess it depends on the individual hospitals staffing levels.
Loudlass81@reddit
None of which helps someone like me, who has frequent hospital stays, but still I end up not getting help to EAT. They discharged me without finishing my treatment plan simply cos I wasn't getting fed...
It IS neglect. Whether you are doing it on purpose, or have no choice, the end result is patients getting NEGLECTED.
Complain to PALS & they NEVER follow up, either.
NONE of your good intentions mean ANYTHING if patients are being NEGLECTED to the point we are left to starve.
Outrageous_Shirt_737@reddit
It shouldnāt be but the NHS is on its arse. Even back in 2017 my diabetic mum missed meals because theyād but her meal at the end of her bed, not even wake her up to tell her it was there, then take it away again. I used to work for the NHS and it makes me sad and furious in equal measure when I think about how shit things are now.
Larkymalarky@reddit
Iām in Scotland for reference, not England, but that has never been my experience on any ward Iāve ever worked on, anyone needing assistance always has a student, HCSW or nurse to help them eat if needed! I find that really shocking that theyāre being left without food! Even if one patient needs to wait for the first one to finish, there will always be someone going round helping, though my experience has again always been a few people helping patients eat! Iām so sorry youāve experienced this
The food is absolutely rank though, hard agree!
jonathing@reddit
Before he died my father volunteered for a services that sent people in to feed patients who were unable to feed themselves. I'd ask him the name of it but that's a bit difficult now.
First_Television_600@reddit
Just take a record of what was said by the nurses and any other info you have, photos/videos if you can and send it to the BBC or another news outlet. This is disgusting and should be brought to light. It sounds like many people have had this experience OP.
Sea_Influence7197@reddit
I know that there are some very professional and hard working staff but I have been in hospital for months over the last few years and seen some horrendous practice. I've witnessed staff standing around for hours just talking to each other, ignoring patient buzzers, failing to give timely medication (including pain relief) to seriously ill people and various other signs of neglect including no help with personal care. I wasn't washed for 3 days after open heart surgery because they said they didn't have the staff to do it and my pain relief was hours late each time which is horrendous after having your sternum cut open. I caught cdiff as the ward was filthy. The food was awful and fresh drinking water was a luxury. I was left routinely with iv lines in me for hours after the medication ran through which caused me to have phlebitis in both arms and eventually needing a Hickman line. I have been left traumatised by my experiences of being in hospital and terrified of ever going back. Yes, I complained and received an apology but words do not repair the broken trust that I have for the NHS.
Mental_Body_5496@reddit
Great conversation everyone just to say it's even worse if its your child in hospital - parents especially mothers are expected to ge there 24/7 and do everything for their child - paediatric staff do not do any personal care or support oral feeding - my daughter was an inpatient for 2 periods of 3 months each and I had to give up my job to look after her in hospital! We took our own food in most of the time!
SusieC0161@reddit
This is the 3rd time Iāve heard stories like this. I worked for the NHS 1985- 2007 and, while relatives often helped with feeding, there was no obligation to and we certainly never told them they had to. Iāve recently heard 3 stories where relatives have been forced to provide basic nursing care. Its disgraceful.
Annual-Cookie1866@reddit
Speak to PALS asap
ThatWasMyNameOnce@reddit
It's common for family members to help with meals but family are not obliged. They may be short staffed but they aren't going to let him starve if there are meals relatives can't make it in for, they'll find somebody. It shouldn't be put to the family as something they HAVE to do.
Also, if he lives in a care home ordinarily it's more usual for a carer from that home to sit in with them during their stay.
Family help should be appreciated but not expected or relied upon.
Jin-shei@reddit
Never seen a care home carer come to work in the hospital with them. Only on outpatient appointments..Ā
ThatWasMyNameOnce@reddit
Happens a lot where I am if the person has a learning disability or dementia.
ACanWontAttitude@reddit
It used to be a thing back in the day. I miss it. If they're funding a 1:1 though in the care home the carer should come to the hospital as payments don't just halt. But this often doesn't happen.
Aggravating-Desk4004@reddit
Speak to PALS. I've found them really helpful in the past. The reason for them is to stop complaints escalating so it's in their interest to help you.
keleverythings19@reddit
Imagine having 6 patients that need feeding and 2 members of staff. Usually there are also other things going on that need doing too: toileting, observations, speaking with relatives on the phone, dealing with sick patients and giving vital medications.
By the time you get to the last patient feed the food is clock cold. Even if nothing else is happening the last plate of food will be cold. So whilst not essential, it's always very much appreciated.
OwlCaretaker@reddit
Please complain loudly about this. Search for PALS, Healthwatch, and CQC.
Nurses are not listened to, we need patients to complain.
Over the years the level of dependency and complexity has increased, but staffing hasnāt kept pace with this.
Also we are struggling to get quality people into nursing. Part of the pay campaign is so we can attract high quality people into the profession. Many are willing to take a reduction in wage for job satisfaction. They are not willing to take a significant reduction in wage and little to no job satisfaction.
KeysonM@reddit
It shouldnāt be but the nhs is so understaffed and overworked food and fluids tend to be forgotten about. I recently had 2 emergency surgeries within 1 month of each other and the first one I had the most amazing healthcare assistant looking after me bringing me all the food and drink I could want. The 2nd it was a fight to just get a sandwich after my surgery, I was there around 18 hours and was only given 1 sandwich
nicolexavier@reddit
There have been lots of articles in the Guardian recently about people caring for relatives on carers allowance having their benefits stopped because the person they care for was in hospital for a period - so the DWP essentially thinks the carer has that time off. Anyone in this situation knows thatās basically the opposite of what happens! If a disabled person with family carers goes into hospital the carers then just have to work overtime doing the same care taks that for whatever reason the nurses donāt do - but actually with additional expenses like fuel, parking, public transport, buying their own food etc etc. It really is a horrible situation but one Iāve experienced many times
Daveddozey@reddit
What does your MP say?
My current one is useless, but where I used to live they really cared and would enact pressure both immediately and raise it with ministers. Get enough of this and the problem may get better. If it doesnāt then the problem gets ignored.
kaleidoscopememories@reddit
In my experience yes. I spent some time in hospital last year, I could still feed myself for the most part but couldn't open things if they were sealed and struggled eating certain things without spilling them everywhere as I lost muscle control. If I couldn't open something I spent 10 minutes clearly struggling and then gave up and left it on the end of the bed.
My biggest grievance was if I missed dinner as I'd been out the ward having a test or whatever then you'd then not eat all evening. I was very thankful to my partner for bringing me food and helping me with eating/dressing etc. but I remember thinking it must be awful for those without anyone.
_FirstOfHerName_@reddit
At every hospital my family has been admitted to meal times have been protected with no visitors allowed.
I did, however, tell a healthcare assistant that I'd be helping my grandad to eat on one particular visit when he was in hospice, which was fine because it was my choice and not necessity.
RowRow1990@reddit
We were asked to be on a demtnia ward with my gran around meal times to support where needed - it wasn't really needed, she was perfectly capable of feeding herself, but I can understand why in that case they asked.
There was a time my mum was in and we had to do everything cause they just didn't care/didnt have the staff/didnt have training (changed often as to which reason.) She was in a bad, bad way and the stuff I was having to do was awful, but there was no way in hell I could have left her like that.
Hospitals are so understaffed now, they just cant offer the care that they should be able to.
heidelberg2023@reddit
Please put in a complaint to pals. Things wont change if people just shrug and carry on. It should be better!
RedTedNed@reddit
My family had to go in for my relative to have water. She was admitted for a UTI and unconscious but we were mistakenly told she'd had a massive stroke after a brain scan. We had to ask for her to be put on a drip. When she regained consciousness whenever we went to visit she either had an empty water jug, no cup etc etc. Prioritising hydration above other patient needs is a no brainer for keeping patients alive?!
trace307@reddit
Tough question but is this hospital basically end of life? I only ask because my cousin was recently in this position, we were feeding him but only because he could only really manage ice cream, yoghurts and custard. He didnāt have a feeding drip, only morphine and other medicines. I suspect itās because they knew the end was imminent and food/time would be wasted
Rugbylady1982@reddit
Yes it happens a lot.
pringellover9553@reddit
Everyoneās like āyeah itās normalā but itās absolutely not okay??? What about patients who donāt have family? Are they just starved?
Unlikely_Egg@reddit
My husband had surgery last year and he was able to feed himself so no issue, but when I went in to visit him there were signs up on the ward "encouraging" visits during mealtimes for help with feeding.
Late-Champion8678@reddit
Itās not procedure, no. If visiting relatives happen to be present at mealtimes Ć”nd not enough staff are available to assist, I can imagine they would expect those patients with visitors to help. No-one is going to call in next-of-Kim just feed a patient.
TheMegaCity@reddit
Absolutely not my experience having worked in a hospital and being in two as inpatients
capnpan@reddit
My friend has this situation now. Can't feed himself, dementia, pulling off oxygen mask, canula etc, hallucinating. Hospital discouraging family coming in outside of visiting hours in afternoon and early evening. Food dumped at end of bed. Looks like he won't eat anything at all in the mornings. I said well it's fine to not go in if they can keep his mask on, saturation monitor etc, but apparently they will handle that but not feed.
Primary_Gift_8719@reddit
Was an issue in 2010/2011 during my gran's final admittance before she passed. She needed 1 to 1 help and they didn't have the staff or time, that was at a foundation trust. Similar issue same trust in 2014 but for my ex who had cancer.
Some staff will try and demure and say it's better for patient, and I suppose in some ways it is, but I worry about the ones who don't have anyone to help and go unnoticed. I remember being ignored by catering staff when I've been in side rooms before (different trust entirely to the one I talk about above) but... Just a very sad situation.
Apprehensive_Bed_668@reddit
This is very common practice in most countries, ultimately if nurses/csw can feed them they will but youāve got to consider thereās often 1nurse and CSW for 8 patients, they canāt feed them all
Nice_Back_9977@reddit
1 nurse for 8 patients would be amazing! Itās very rarely that good. On my last ward shift I was caring for 21 acutely unwell patients. Thereās a reason nurses donāt stay on the wards long these days.
Apprehensive_Bed_668@reddit
This is very true I was just generalising Iām aware the nurse to patient ration is often much worse than this and frequently thereās only 1 csw for a whole ward
Weird5422@reddit
When our disabled daughter was in hospitsl we had to stay with her 24/7 as she needs 1:1 support. Couldn't work or do anything.
Sea_Pangolin3840@reddit (OP)
Thankyou everyone for your replies the comments certainly blew up. On the one occasion when a family member wasn't there at a meal time and we went to visit in the evening the patient (,due to loss of spatial abilities because of the brain tumour) had picked up the dish and poured it over his head and the food was still all over his hair face and neck when we git there .Hopefully the much awaited surgery to remove the tumour will be in 5 days so he will be moved to a different hospital but maybe it will be the same there too.The patient isn't elderly and all this has been very sudden. He doesn't have children or a wife so a couple of cousins are doing what they can but have full time jobs and young children. I do appreciate all the hard work that nurses and health care professionals put in they are rushed off their feet .Things just came to boiling point when they found him 5 hours after meal time still soaked in his food and nothing had actually been eaten.
victorianwallpaper@reddit
This was the case when my grandma was in hospital in 2023.
raccoonsaff@reddit
Having worked as a HCA on an elderly ward, we appreciate relatives who come in and can help with feeding, but we certainly wouldn't expect or ask for it, and you shouldn't have to. If you can't make it, say to the charge nurse, or even the matron. They'll make sure staff are available x
Sea_Influence7197@reddit
This happened with my dad when he was in hospital. He was registered blind and they dumped his food on a tray in front of him with no assistance given to help him eat or drink. Our family took food in and fed him. This was over 20 years ago but when I was in hospital in 2021/2022 I observed exactly the same with other patients. The NHS is held in such high esteem in the U.K. so it feels almost a betrayal to criticise them but the standard of care can be abysmal and some staff downright cruel.
ResponsibleTomato841@reddit
When my father broke his hip he was incredibly unwell, took weeks before they could get him in good enough shape to consider operating on. Quite often when we went up at visiting times the food was at the end of the bed...he could not move...even if he could he was that doped up most of the time I doubt he would manage himself anyways. "Oh he hasn't eaten anything today" well no shit. Took a lot of complaining from my mum to get something sorted for him.
I get it, NHS is fucked, but to leave an elderly man who's unable to move lying and unable to feed himself is shocking.
GovernmentNo2720@reddit
Yes. My father was in hospital for 8 months straight and my mother and I fed him every day, two meals a day. The HCAs fed him breakfast but often he would refuse and theyād be glad to see us arrive when visiting hours began so they could be sure he was eating well. He didnāt always eat from every staff member who tried feeding him. There was never food just left there though - someone always tried feeding him but they couldnāt force it if he refused
LogPrestigious1941@reddit
Go to Pals immediately. This is not okay and not standard practice and impacting the patientās recovery. Regardless of staffing this is a ned and they should be thinking about him leaving hospital even if itās palliative. Pals = patient advice liaison service and if they donāt help, go to any reception at the hospital and ask to speak to safeguarding. With this attitude, Iād be worried about them but if heās had a speech and language therapy assessment for feeding and is safe to eat, a healthcare assistant should help
Sufficient-Egg9524@reddit
NO. Get a complaint in ASAP that is not normal practise and it should not be allowed! Untrained people feeding vulnerable patients are a hazard waiting to happen, because an untrained person does not know how to safely deal with a choking incident.
bluejackmovedagain@reddit
It shouldn't be usual procedure, but most wards are so poorly staffed these days that it's not uncommon. The nurses aren't saying "we can't be bothered to feed them" they're saying "we're so overstretched that your relative may spend several hours sitting there hungry and watching their food go cold before anyone is able to feed them, and the nurse doing it might be called away before the meal is finished".
Nurses often don't have time to eat or even drink on shifts themselves.Ā
OrganicPoet1823@reddit
Normally something done by support workers/healthcare assistants
Active-Answer1858@reddit
The ward has a duty to feed those who cannot feed themselves. However, staffing is terrible, and even if you put your foot down it doesn't mean it'll be done consistently, on time, or well. If I have a relative in hospital even if they can eat independently I bring them as much food as possible too, because the hospital food is awful. Feel free to report this via PALS and to the ward manager but unfortunately, it is normal (although obviously unacceptable), that's the standard of care due to budget, staffing and cuts.
Source: I now work in the community. Props to those who stayed in inpatient care and good luck.
No-Suspect-6104@reddit
No itās not expected but itās definitely appreciated. We are happy to see family members get involved with feeding. On elderly wards there absolutely isnāt enough staff to feed all the patients that need assistance so it can take a long time, hence why the help is appreciated
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